Conversation with Georgists; 13

Exploring the ideas of protection. Free trade wages taxes automation and unemployment. These are just some of the topics to be heard on. Conversation with George was produced in cooperation with the and rejoined School of Social Science. And now we're here is your host for a conversation with Georgia. The faculty of the Long Island extension of the Henry George School of Social Science a school devoted exclusively to the dissemination of the philosophy of Henry George and its relevancy today welcomes you to the 13th and last in a series of programs dealing with the subject of economics. This subject has been relegated by many

to a back seat with respect to our interest and knowledge and left in the hands of these so-called expert. We feel that economics is everybody's concern. Regardless of education occupation profession or sex we offer and teach our free courses in economics with this in mind. This program conversation with joy just deals with economics in this vein and we hope to bring forth some answers to the perennial problems that face our nation and the world. My name is Stan Rubenstein director of the Long Island extension of the Henry George School and with us tonight are two members of the faculty of our school. Each one well-versed in the field of economics. Having spent many years teaching free courses in economics Dr. Sam Scheck is an orthodontist and Mr.

Wayne Barry is an engineer. Our subject for tonight deals with the Georgists philosophy. A look back and a look ahead. Gentlemen we have labored through approximately 12 programs dealing with many thoughts of Henry joy joy and its relevance today in whining up this last program. I would like to read a short selection from a book that and read George wrote during the 1880s and titles social problems. Laying aside prejudice and self-interest will honestly and carefully make up his own mind as to the causes and the cure of the social evils that are so apparent does in that. The most important thing in his power to a very movable social reform is not to be

secured by noise and shouting by complaints and denunciation by the formation of party or the making of revolution but by the awakening of thought and the progress of ideas until the correct thought there cannot be right action and when there is correct thought right action will follow. Now Dr. Sheck and Mr. Barry on this quote that I read to you. It seems to be very nice philosophically but it seems that many of the things that Henry George wished that would take place have not taken place and in fact in being very honest and trying to display as much candor is possible. Many people and listening to the

shows probably have not heard of the name of Henry George before. No less his philosophy. Sam Schachter How much progress has been made by the followers of Henry George since his death during a lot of part of the 1890s. Well we feel that a great deal of progress has been made. I can list just a few I can tell you what has been happening here in this country in the way of educational growth. And I can also tell you about the places in the United States and all over the world where Henry George's principles are followed at least to some extent here in this country if we have the SHALL can back a foundation. Mr. shall come back who was the head of the typographical union in his day. I think it was about 900

one left a small fortune or a large rather large fortune due to the propagation of the ideas of Henry George. He did it in this way. The money was to be devoted to a printing of Progress and Poverty and other books at a rather small sum of money. So anybody wanting Henry George's books can write to the shall come back foundation at fifty to sixty ninth Street and get a nicely printed book for a small sum of money in one thousand thirty two. Henry George School of Social Science was founded by a man by the name of Oscar Geiger and it has taken effect tremendously. We now have a national and international of groups connected with the school and we have graduated well over 100 thousand students now throughout the

country we can throughout the world we can mention countries like Australia New Zealand and Denmark. We are under George's principles have been practiced to a great extent and I think we'll all admit that these countries are fairly well locked in the in the scale of standard of living for its peoples. We have Alberta in Canada where the George principles are followed to a great extent in our country we have Fair Hope Alabama the Ardens of Delaware Pittsburgh and Scranton and Pennsylvania Southfield Michigan where our principles are practiced to a great extent. Of course there are other places now and we feel that there's a Henry George movement is a fight for freedom and. It is something that you have to keep working for all the time. There are times when we make great a progress toward winning freedom there are times we have less to progress. We can

never have it completely. We can't give people freedom because they've got to understand it and we feel that they've got to understand Henry George to know what true freedom really is and it is a beautiful thing. Sam you've spoken about at considerable length about freedom. And yet I note by the introduction of the show and by the teaching of the courses which are off it everyone deals with economics and I know that the Henry George School has as its primary purpose the dissemination as I mentioned in the introduction of the philosophy of Henry George. And this mainly was in the field of economics. And yet you speak about this fight for freedom. How do you we cooperate in economics and freedom. Can you have one without the other. Well most people feel that they are free because they have the right to vote and the right to theoretically to the side of their

own affairs. But see if this through or through if through all not knowing the proper way of running things or not knowing the field of economics they do not vote properly. They're not fostering freedom. Freedom is a matter of economics it's a matter of how much a man can keep of what he makes. Consider the essense of slavery for example. What does a slave mean. The A slave is a man the product of whose labor is Conference confiscated by another. And truly this is the position in which most of us here in America are today. We retain. Just enough of what we produce to give us a bare living. And from this angle we do not have true freedom.

If I can perhaps crystallize and condense some of you thoughts that you have just mentioned are you in reality stating. Why it is one of the major problems all the major confrontations that is occur and occurring between the Western world and the communist world. And of course there they supposedly are in opposition to what we feel that we have a combination of political freedom and economic freedom where as they will either deny one or the other. Now is it your feeling that you cannot have political freedom unless one has economic freedom. Well eventually and not having economic freedom will result in the loss of political freedom the way the country has been going since 1932. You might say we have been going towards greater

state intervention in private affairs and you know we may eventually end up in the socialistic area or maybe even communistic then the joint US Philosophy deals according to what you have just stated. More than just the field of economics it deals with the Question of Freedom it deals with the question of morality. It has many tangents would you feel are just as important as strictly the field of economics. Yes George is actually a philosophy a philosophy of living a philosophy of life. It enters into so many areas it's hard to state them all. I have found for example that it is essential in the field of religion to know Henry George waiting in line with what Sam is speaking about and I know that this is a very

difficult thing to do but I will try it at the expense of simplicity. If we had two St.. That person is a joy just Henri's not enjoyed used. What is it that determines. Who is a joy just I realize we're putting a label. On this particular matter and I don't like to put labels but if we had to speak about the joint use movement. What would be some of the characteristics that we could expect to find from a Georgia is recognizing that all of these characteristics will not fit any particular joy just how would we be able to identify a Georges. Well I've always felt that. A true believer in land value taxation. As George. Pointed out in his book progress and probably. Is a

Georges. Now I know in the classes that I've. Had. The you may start with that hundred twenty. You'll end up with 50 percent maybe only you know three or four of those really understand why surely it's a difficult subject sometimes to the point not some people but some people to change their viewpoints on things. And that's why there are not as many. Graduates that really believe now a lot of them. George just but they don't do anything they throw up their hands I think and think that it's impossible to do anything about this and they understand it. But it's those that really believe in the Land Value Taxation I would call it George just so you know. So therefore the the fundamental characteristics would be of course in this whole field of taxation and it would be in the courts in the field of economics.

Sam do you want to add anything that from the viewpoint of a person who hasn't read Henry George you'd like to know what is the Georgists I say. And I say well he is a free thinker. You may find a lot of people who are categorized as free thinkers who are very close or just but they are not true joy just because they do not understand the Land Value Taxation point that Wayne Berry has brought out. But spiritually there Ken to George just you might say we are individualists but we're not rugged individualists. They're rugged individuals would. Love to have things run the way they are with monopolies and special privileges as they exist. The Georgists would like to see all of monopolies and special privileges removed and then have the individual to operate in a free society according to the natural laws of economics.

If George's are an individual this as you state and that they are FREE think is as you have just mentioned then it seems that they would be running counter to much of the philosophy that is currently taking place throughout the world and that is towards collectivization in one form or another. Am I correct in this stat. Yes yes they do see the tendency of the times as well. The world and even in the United States unfortunately has been towards collectivization towards the government trying to solve some of the problems which people have not been able to solve for themselves. But the Georgians feel that people can solve these problems for themselves it's not their fault that they feel the joy just feel that there is. Something basically wrong all over the world not only in Russia but even in the United States.

And that is that we haven't understood the true differentiation between a land which is a nonproductive element and labor and capital which is productive. We here in the United States treat all three alike in that we allow freedom for all three. The Russians treat all three alike in that they want government ownership and direction of all three. But actually by separating these three into a non productive and productive elements landing none of the non producers. And labor and capital being the producers and therefore now we can solve our economic problems to the point where people can take care of themselves without government intervention. Now you are against almost completely the philosophy that prevails presently in communist countries and that is for complete government protection and taken over concerning the economy. And you

seem to be against certain segments of the American capitalistic system as it is today. Yes. The day we have been at a very fast pace taking over. They are areas where people are should have been taking over themselves. For example. I mean some people are being given a living through welfare in their perfectly able bodied and able to take care of themselves but they don't have. No they haven't found the opportunity to use their labor. We should provide them with this opportunity. People should be able to have enough to live on in their old age. Our society is certainly the most advanced in the country. And in our course and in our book we explain why these things exist today but do not necessarily have to exist.

Where I think you touched upon this before but I'd like to explore this a little bit more in depth as to why is it that the GA's philosophy not that it's more accepted this is one point but why is it that more people do not know about Henry George the philosophy and all of its ramifications that Sam had mentioned before. Well first brace is not taught in our public schools. Where it should be I think in even in elementary grades a basic economics course should be given based upon the sound philosophy that Henry George has given us and is not taught in our colleges except maybe in very thesis. Some studies may have it but very few. Maybe one or two colleges it's been. In and out but it's something that till we do get it into the public schools and colleges is it's going to be some time before.

The Henry George schools will grow fast enough to really get the people educated. When i always start I always like to refer to what Tolstoy Leo Tolstoy said about Henry George he says people do not argue with the teaching of George. They simply do not know it. He who becomes acquainted with it cannot but agree with the whole story a joy just oh yes he believed in the teachings of Henry George very much and he told us ours of Russia I quote that. I mean that's just something that the. Before the revolution they should follow what George has this philosophy or they will have a revolution and of course they had it now. Somebody will tell me that maybe they would have had it anyway but still I still feel that if they had followed Tolstoy they would have come out of their troubles. Without a revolution getting back to what you mentioned about Henry George and his philosophy I think his philosophy is of importance here and not necessarily the name itself of Henry George

is not taught in the public school systems. Is there any reason that you can think of that. There appears to be some type of quietness that's taking place or concerning Henry George it seems that there seems to be a silence. Well I think there is a certain amount of prejudice against the name and they consider him a radical. Back there in the last century and of course I still he was radical he was really getting at the root of things which is causing the trouble. But. In a college is why I know in. My own or in another colleges they're backed up by landed interest why it's pretty difficult to. Do. Start teaching against their landed interest. So I imagine that's one big factor and why it doesn't get into the college.

Curriculum. Continuing along on this line Sam what are some of the other reasons and certainly this is a very important reason that it seems that the school system the educational process seems to have this veil of silence with Henry George. What are some of the other reasons that there seems to be this ignorance concerning. What I considered to be one of the great Americans of all times. Well this is the problem of education through education. It is really education where people takes themselves and because they want to learn. Now you know the average student coming out of a forced educational system which is ours will tell you that he has retained practically nothing of what he has learned. He may know how to read and write but he doesn't understand all the chemistry his lake and all of physics he just may know some broad general

principles and we've been lucky to know that. But if a man really wants to learn and wants to know all over the secret of our ourselves our our society works he should pick it up by himself. And unfortunately I think we have very few truly educated people or people who want to be educated and are willing to go out and study something if it doesn't give them an immediate monetary gain or if they're not forced to in order to get a diploma. This is our problem in the field of education. Sam this is directed to you and Wayne this is also directed to you. I know you gentlemen have been teaching this course for many many years on morale and even in New York City. How do you feel or what do you think about the future. Of the teaching of the Georges philosophy remembering that in a sense you are going and you are bucking a trend that the trend is

definitely all way from the type of individual Sam that you spoke of that the trend is definitely toroids. The government becoming a stronger and stronger participant. In the workings of our economy and also as you have mentioned before saying you cannot separate economy from freedom and this means that they want to play a stronger and stronger part within their daily lives that we are finding out more and more. What do you think is the future of the GA's movement. Sam and Wayne. Well I think George must eventually prevail. The truth must be generally recognized in time in the past. It was felt the earth was flat. We finally found it was round and everybody believes it was round. Slavery did not become eradicated for many many years in fact thousands of years the

Gyptian had slaves for 6000 years. We know that. So you can see the fight for a freedom may take a long long time. But this should not discourage any man or any Georges. We know that eventually George will be recognized all over the world the same way as Jesus Christ is recognized today and over the short time viewpoint we know that the Jew George movement has of making lots of progress. We hear George articles in the newspapers practically every day and we are. We work isn't Henry George movement feel very gratified with the results we are getting. Wayne how you answer that question I feel that we've been making progress slow approach but it's gaining momentum in the last three years I think we've gone quite a way with the educating. You're getting into the periodicals and papers particularly in the house and home

of Harry printers has helped us and the quote to have time back and political parties and Woodrow Wilson said The country needs a new and sincere thought in politics coherent coherently distinctly and boldly audited by men who are sure of their ground. The power of men like Henry George seems to me to mean that. And a white Eisenhower in 1950 voted for Henry George for the Hall of Fame. We have at least two sides political parties that men have thought well of Henry George. Gentlemen. This is the last in our series of programs and we hope that you with a listening audience is a little bit richer concerning our beliefs and our philosophy. Our Special thanks go to all of the faculty of the Henry George School who have appeared on conversation with joy just during the last. Several months. They have given of their time freely on this program as they

have done regularly in their teaching of free economic courses on Long Island. Once again I wish to thank tonight. Dr. Sam Shaq and Mr. Wayne Berry for appearing on the program. Any listeners who are interested in learning more about the free courses that we offer in economics please write the Henry George School. Post-office Box 54. Old Bethpage Long Island. That address again is the Henry George School. Post-office Box 54. Old Bethpage. Long Island. Exploring the ideas of protection free trade wages taxes automation and the unemployed. This has been a conversation with George Lucas produced by W.

DHC high school university and I've started in collaboration with Andrew George School of Social Science. This is ANY our national educational radio network.