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Voices of Europe today in Stockholm Milton mair American author and broadcaster of lecturer and professor in the Institute of Social Research from Frankfurt university interviews Dr. Herbert things stand. The chief editor of Dugan's nater the daily news of Stockholm the largest newspaper in Scandinavia. Here is Mr. Mayor don't 13th stay in Sweden has been a piece. For going on a century and a half longer than any other country in Europe is this phenomenon a consequence of Historic of our geographical accident or does it have to do in your opinion with the Swedish character. They're well under a hole I don't believe you mockingly shouted Patterson I think that's rather a romantic good concepts and I believe that's what our neutrality for a
nearly 140 years is really more and the study connected that our position of course in Europe is rather good. Your graphic at least beacon. We have no need for an added minority it's a goal. As you know hour at noon the population each said that a homogeneous and wounded during the war in Europe in its center and more. That is really being no very great temptation for a Swede to get into a war and then yeah no one has attacked us. But of course things stand until the second world war the rest of Scandinavia have succeeded in remaining at peace and then Denmark and Norway were invaded and occupied.
How did Sweden remain neutral in the second world war. Because we werent attack them that there were only recently and the reason I could put up or walk our course to move then mark that I didn't wish to take part in fact Denmark it didn't resist their invitation from Germany and Norway and didn't wish to take part either. We had no way to dealings witness several times for any invitation. It never came why he didn't come. It's debatable upon one of the other reasons our plea was that our defense was rather good not very good but rather good in comparison with our very Denmark and Norway. In all cases how neutral. Right of the Swedes in their hearts during the Second World War a doctor thinks that when they stop you aren't then you'll try the latter was a very small
minority I should say perhaps two or three percent. Well he empathized young many a day and overwhelming made my majority he was then and very strongly anti Naseem and pro-Western. Now from another part to you you could say that we werent quite ill treated in our actions because one or two cases we talked Lee gave many exam met numerous advantages which you are rather dark for from man to go and then you are trying to pont of view especially when Jarman division Wasim are permitted to go by as we differ a little from Norway to Finland in the summer of the summer of forty one. But on the whole most subtly we do on your trip and that we werent quite clear about defending ourselves the East German attack had had come.
What was the feeling among the Swedes about this violation of your neutrality by the Germans. Did you feel that you had no other choice. Well they had debated that all the time afterwards you know. I should say that most Swedes felt that the government was acting err but absolutely the whole world cautiously met them that this hasn't been a very strong criticism. All that that action I must also stress here that it was in the summer of war he won when people that and headed to Germany against Russia and of course he in some ways it was really because of our strong feeling for Finland that the Germans were permitted to go in and get the division throw sweet.
Well to what extent are there things that ended the Swedish policy of neutrality and allowing this violation by the Germans separates Sweden from the Norwegians and the Danes. Well Larry it certainly was a bitter feeling in Norway and Denmark among many people. I think however that these feeling of bitterness and was very rapidly and strongly increased during the war and after the war. I mean that did decrease the cost and does enough of it remained to have any effect on Scandinavian politics. It's difficult to say Sam ific that must be of course so I'm feeling our separate ness but I don't think it's very important. No I don't think so. Aha a new drug or doctor things that enters Sweden
today in the present world crisis. Well like your code at noon on surround two lines also are cost and the one line used then what generally is called the ideological line that everyone kind that they're mis reading certainly does not know their overwhelming majority is pro Western. We have their communist party of about 6 or 7 percent of the population better outside this party you will find very few Swedes who aren't clearly pro-Western. Now now from another part of you you could say that we are that in New York really indeed we have proclaimed the same policy our freedom of alliances and that mean that we haven't been entered in the Atlantic back to Norway and Denmark have done it but this region hasn't done it.
We had discussions about their Scandinavian defense airliners in 48 and 49 but the result was that Norway and Denmark went to the athletic pack and Sweden stayed there from that point of view from the political point of view of New York. Now if you take the question all of the principle on your credit game it's difficult to say when a country should be in New York or not. For instance during the last round where. Practically all countries ran your troll and killed they were obliged to take a position France and United States to heal protocols for a couple of years and many other countries. Now we heard about the question right now and here I am against this weed issue. Your credit your policy I think we should join the Atlantic pact and then I in my paper have walked on this line
now for nearly five years we began in forty eight when these question I'll be a planted back again began to form and so I am against Jinnah neutrality policy clearly against but the Swedish government is not. No on the whole day you'll find even not only in the government but in all the political parties your pride their very strong you could see on the whole right overwhelming majority for then your trans. policy I think however is such and this opinion could change rather rapidly and be silly. If we are in an international conflict that included Sweden would come from. Dr. Kingston what is the what is your argument your case against neutrality in the present situation.
And I admit that then put forward perhaps even if you were not there the case for this neutrality policy the this case east I could see for a while there. That is Sam possibility for Sweden to keep out of a wild war if we don't get that back. Most people say these possibilities very small but the least in all cases a possibility even if it's only one step and that there really isn't ace that didn't hear the poor words for instance by a foreign minister that didn't mean that he said being here even there dividing the world into fighting or completing groups and it's a group for one country who'll stay out because then they help a little to prevent their pension him becoming still strong.
If not pine that I think is the most important release that most weeds. Are they afraid that their Russia would act pack or occupied or on the whole maltreat Finland. If Sweden left its position on your tragedy you know from my point of view I think that there and the possibility of them in this thing our side their war is so very small so it's nothing to talk about. Then I think that if that lease in you want war. Sweden's position would be much better if we were already united and united with the West because then we could get prepared help very rapidly from the Western powers it's rather difficult to get it when you are NOT have not prepared it before.
I think also that on the whole the possibility of keeping the peace is stronger if you have a very strong air defense organisation among the Democratic states. Then I think quite possible that the aggression of Russia I won't take place. Now we are back to Finland argument. Name My point is that the only way we can really make our whole policy dependent on the policy of Russia against people that that would mean that our policy is really determined in Moscow or not in stock. Another point on this same problem is that there and I think it quite possible that even we will be on the Atlantic back perhaps even if Sweden this not during that lead react really the United States and the Western powers generally well to allow Russia to attack Finland just
this they didn't allow their communist in North Korea in there to take over the whole Korean country. I think that their main points. Finally Dr. King stand what do you Swedes think of us Americans. And that's a rather difficult question to answer especially for me. I am mean I think one of the men in public life who are the most friendly against America to a great extent because I've been in America several times. I have studied political science and social sciences much and in these fields of course America's leading the way. However I could see that that are perhaps to a group scenes we know are especially critical about the United States long term on the left of course the extreme left the communists and their
fellow travelers. I don't need to explain the reasons why these people are unfriendly to the United States. Then we have in Sweden as in many other European countries. Groups are people quite on the other side who are also all quite very critical about the United States and only the fashion people who are a feeling that the United States is a country with only material interests a country with no real culture and so on whom your country are pioneers in contrasted with their explicit serialization of Western Europe. On the whole perhaps both these groups are getting the force from their feeling that I have already perhaps to some extent indicated that them whom
the material side is too much in the stressed in American life. They are all sore. I'm sure who in many cases absolutely in your rant about the great internet is a great difference between the United States today we see great literature carried a great deal of scholarship but in the science and then it's a great social walk along and they don't know the difference between this modern America and the old America our little say fifty years ago which START live from separate parts so you well us back is somewhat back Warf in comparison with several Western European countries. On the whole I think however. That most weeds even as we say who are are very much for the official policy war are
very much against them leaving it. Then your trollish policy are at noon more friendly to the United States now than in every sense then and there and that is where the feel that they're really united states is there one country involved which combines democracy only appealing for humanitarian values and strings and that combination in the same room is so absolutely important in their world today to save us from their eastern aggression that they feel the presence of the United States in the world as their greatest benefit. There is now from a political point of view. Thank your doctor thinks that the French village of laser meet
the hermit's is about one hundred twenty five miles south of Paris not far from the city of tour. It is an ancient village of 300 persons with a total population including the farm community roundabout of about 800. The mayor of laser meat is Mr. Clode petite who was born in 1990 the son of the village notary. One of his grandfathers was a peasant and another a wagon maker by virtue partly of his high skill lastic standing and partly because of his father's financial ability globally teet was able to go to the university which meant Paris after leaving the university he entered the French Civil Service and the Department of Labor. He was with the English army at Dunkirk and in 1904 was elected mayor of laser meat. Here is Milton Mayer to interview Mr. Clode petite machina mayor. I want to ask you how the village has changed.
In what ways it has changed over your life time for example. Has education changed. I should say that in matters of education there has been some improvement because education is now absolutely accomplished story and every bars or girls attended school from five years up to at least 14 the 14 or 15 years and has the course of study changed. Do the children Monsieur le Maire learn the same things today and in the same methods that you studied. I think the markdown nowadays are more to today to see because the programs are planned by very carefully by the central authority by the Board of Education. And I should say the
program is more developed than what concerns economic economics. For instance even a farmer has to endure much more meant several several years ago. Michelle The mayor has there been any great change in the culture of the community as there is there much in the way of music or art or reading in the metal fart. We have we have the banyan trees by the motherfucker of our order for a small village because we are proud it has been established in eighteen hundred and seventy nine. You see that is the village has a band a band which was established in 1879 as well as maybe 25 people as you see and there are a hair Susan during their winter and wondrous and then they go to a feast and in the neighborhood you see about invited to the various festivals. And once a year they may
offer several days with one or two courses. For instance tonight the year they went to the arts and to Geneva. Micheline Mayor is there a library here in town in the village. Larrys Yes more library in the school and there is that in court which has come from this from the main town of two which come every month and the. Can lend books to the people who ask for. Oh yes we would call us a bookmobile a bookmark here. And do people read more than they used to. Oh yes I think nowadays everybody is able to to read to read and to to write. To. Has the other people as religious as they were when you were a boy. Yes a truth is a big chance that their religion is not so much drawn into politics as it
was 50 years ago. You see. In the year nine thousand nine hundred there was a very strong division in this country because the people which were religious and anti-religious U.S. but now it is very easy. There is not this big struggle you see every day. Every boy or girl go to the public school and most of them go to the church nobody mind as it is so much as it was 50 years ago. That it is a big progress in the way of appeasement. Yes. Does the church here have a priest. No there is no priest coming and sending from an next village. I estimated the population of laser meat is I take it almost entirely Catholic. Yes generally speaking is life easier as far as work is concerned.
I should say life is easier to see because there are more equipment to see 50 years ago and they are to get the corn with the hand with the hand you seen and that now it did there are some mash in the imprint of my shin and there are several tractor. The beach chain for that very important for the life is it inch sets in easily to village model cars you see even in a small bead Ouch that I should say we have now or a flip 1998 car you see thought that I know them very easily to go to the market over every every Tuesday many of them go to the market of their little town on Tuesday and from time to time they go to two which is the capital of the province U.S. for instance there is a big fan of it 10 Days in May and there they are traveling rather easily.
Do the peasants on their own tractors individually. Yes yes in my village. No or they have a tractor of their own using you know it is they are beginning to SS you to buy some. So buy some machine you see for instance to get the potatoes. You mean co-operative parity. Is there more or less cooperation in the economy than there was when there is much much more as much want to come. Comparative move east spreading. You see in what way machine Lemaire For instance now a days all that isn't sour in the new system of delivery of gone there are selling there. Gone through parity and they get the money from a fund of I'm going to turn it critiqued which is run by particularly by the present Linsanity
and has the political point of view changed as a result of these two world wars and the changing times of your life has the political attitude of the people of the village changed I should not say not so much that. Very much very strongly attached to the person or property or property or seeing they're out there out to all on their farm and they would like to own their farm and they wouldn't apply to spend. Their money and you would have seen their walk very hard duty. They know the value of the money received and their right to it was that money for something useful to improve the condition of the family they are very happy when they see their children are better than themselves. It's a bit of muscle in there. How is life different here and lazer meat from the
life of the people in Paris. I should think the life of a village of course is a very very quiet routine and there they are not so eager and patients are not so keen than they are in it in a town meet and they would like it I did. They lead a life which is very simple and they are very steadily attached to their to their family. I mean do the children tend to leave the city in order to go to Paris to get jobs. I try to tell this is not the big problem. So strong as in the poorest district lacking the Montane in this country. From time to time it a boy or girl may go to the town for instance when they have like to have a proposition where education is more your school. But most of the people are not very good to
live in a village and it would be I don't know. Glad to see you. It sounds to me Monsieur le Maire as if things have not changed very much in the laser meet. I should think that is some matter was that there had been a big change for instance in matters of public helps you see the houses are not. Now it is very much way to get seen that many equipments of it you will know I have managed to electrify owners of farms of my village. Many of them out there woud rest I've been at three stores and some improvements that in that way you can see there is a big change carries. We would like to add to what desperate I we have now a better good that a good draw. And the fans know it is nor longer living in a stable thing that bribe a tomb.
I know I should say Nestor spec that has been their big move nowadays for this little village we have two doctors we have a pharmacist. We have a dentist which is coming every week and I've started a clinic for young babies. No monsieur le maire. The last and hardest question I can think of. Are the people of lazier meat happier are unhappier than they were when you were a boy. He's out of the difficulty. You think I should stand in the well-to-do families. It was our life was very easy you're sealing what we called the good old time. You see but nowadays I think that the media should say what I should call the middle class has spread. I think life is rather easy. The days of welcomed are shorter and
shorter and shorter that the people are helped by machine. So in that respect that life isn't that until adults or don't think there is to kind of move their car up to leave the bus. Yeah I'm good. This way the town every day and they have this neat trips which are run by their societies and by the band the fire brigade the sports you know I should say in their narrative they are happier and they have I pleased and soul. To. Develop so much pain in that world. Thank you very much Monsieur le Maire. In this program of the series voices of Europe Milton Mayer has been interviewing Dr. Herbert thing stem editor of a newspaper in Stockholm and the mayor of the small French village Lazar meet Mr. Clode petite. The program you have just heard has been made possible under a grant from the fund for adult education an
independent organization established by the Ford Foundation. These voices of Europe are prepared and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters in the interests of better international understanding. This program was introduced by Norman McKee and this is the end AB tape network.
Voices of Europe
Dr. Herbert Tingsten and Claude Petit
Producing Organization
National Association of Educational Broadcasters
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
Interviews with Dr. Herbert Tingsten and Claude Petit about, respectively, life in Sweden and France.
Series Description
Interviews with noted Europeans on a variety of subjects, conducted by Milton Mayer, American author and broadcaster, lecturer and professor in the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University.
Broadcast Date
Global Affairs
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Interviewee: Tingsten, Herbert, 1896-1973
Interviewee: Petit, Claude
Interviewer: Mayer, Milton, 1908-1986
Producing Organization: National Association of Educational Broadcasters
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 52-37-63 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:29
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Chicago: “Voices of Europe; Dr. Herbert Tingsten and Claude Petit,” 1954-01-01, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed December 8, 2023,
MLA: “Voices of Europe; Dr. Herbert Tingsten and Claude Petit.” 1954-01-01. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. December 8, 2023. <>.
APA: Voices of Europe; Dr. Herbert Tingsten and Claude Petit. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from