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From WMUR found in Washington D.C. the future of another in a series of discussions of alternative futures. Your moderator is Joe coats of the world future society. Mr. Coates This is Joe codes for the world Futures Society presenting another in a series of discussions of alternative futures the subject for this evening's discussion is the future of human conflict. We have with us Professor Rudolf striker's professor emeritus of psychiatry at the Chicago Medical School and director of the Alfred Adler Institute. He's also held numerous visiting professorships in the United States. His most recent enterprise is the forthcoming book published by Henry Regnery entitled social equality the challenge of today. But with such a sweeping subject Professor draggers as the future of human conflict maybe we ought to begin with a look at conflict today. It's right I'm saying most people don't realize the kind of changes which take place in our society today.
Everybody speaks about it ip changes attributes it to their roots which the model of college will do will the technological progress and so on it is a meeting despite of my books having an album How to show the last 20 years that I find also hold up. Hardly anybody who realize this is and sees a problem as I see it. What we experience is the best pain of a new society and this new society began later much at the end of World War Two. And is it the high light of a development which we gain in any songs. It sounds like you're talking about something other than conflict hasn't conflict always been with us. Yeah. And yet that is the difference. We are definitely prepared to sort of conflicts until recently as long as there was an autocratic society. Pleasure from without punishment was sufficient to keep people in line. If you could cut the head off it and see if the chances of the feeling something is rather remote.
In other words punishment was a levy mess sort of choice as in an autocratic society. Their pleasure from all results was sufficient to get conformity over good to save in this way. Conflict I never thought. Wherever people live together but in autocratic society conflict that is only for bank contests. Whoever has a stronger force could get the other one to suit me to accept their solution on the terms of this Donna why are you making playing down the basic proposition that society up to this point has been autocratic I think all societies as a whole it and I was speak about our civilization for the last eight thousand years was exceptional to 300 years and on the end of the engines of that there are democratic. In a democratic society the same as what doesn't go anymore because nobody is reeling to suit me. Women don't want to submit to a man label to management Neagle to write into them to use and as a consequence of that you can't get solutions by
fighting. We need all the forms of transaction to get the solution of the conflict and be discovered them. We know the technic of something happening to mankind its discover new techniques for dealing with conflict. I don't know how far. Actually I didn't discover it. I followed the line of life with love and then some second without the optical becalmed leading to it in the last few centuries. Perhaps you could for a moment tell us who Alfred Adler is I thought our love was a Viennese as a crowd that is to work for some time which for light. Many people think it was a star student that's why there's not two to be together he wasn't president. As a society and actually in our lives that I think there is no influence of rights visible by them for rights book. I wanted a part of everyday living. He follows Arleigh scheme so I lose a psychiatrist the same vantages Freud but independent thinkers right. What's the core concept in Idol relevant to this conflict.
Adults come to a place like organized that man's social nature of many things social being and his mean desire to belong and he's always a decision making organism who decides for himself by using experimentation in which we he thinks two can belong to countries who Google disturbing ways the main man is holistic one unit which gave Alan which blundered on to give the other as if the title of individual psychology him anything either way. Holistic I think. Some of their bases would it be a understand behavior as being purposive and we believe that unless you understand the purpose you don't understand it. The cause of that I mean nation is all respect collection. Now how does this relate now to the dealing with this conflict is resolution the proper word the resolution of conflict. No may need certain techniques of doing it. If people don't know you're seeing a point and let's take children and parents. There never was any living soul around which didn't know what to do with us for its young except our parents they don't know how to get him up in the morning going to go to bed in the evening call to eat or not too much not a little on how to fight how to do it home
that in other words our parents are bankrupt have not the slightest idea what to do because of anything children was always based on tradition when under from one generation to another. And it in addition handed down to us and they got the child hating is completely obsolete. It was a better and safer to learn literally to learn new methods how to influence the children and the interesting part is that this Congress was again made this point. One has to read into children individual there is nothing that is written on. You're talking now about the recent nationwide Congress on child welfare. That's right I can see there are not two mothers who like an education personality and back home but they only make identical mistakes in raising the children. And there we have it is a cultural problem. Could you pinpoint the mistakes or an example of the way only you can see it is a mazing to which extent are muslims makes the same mistake because it's cultural in the past things. Talk too much and they talk in a moment of conflict in a moment of conflict. Talking is only a fighting weapons because in a way that gives
them your short talk with a child. Only when you make first sure that he wants to listen which eliminates about 70 percent of our talk but that I don't know it but they can learn it immediately. Then number of suggestions which the mother can apply immediately assuming she decides to do it. So when you feel hostile shut up that's the room you know when you feel hostile. Your principal RBA it again something going I think we have to recognize that all of the hate of children has to go in the papers and we are described as poor goers of the child's misbehavior. He's attention power their brains are being left alone because this is God's norm roast by mothers and teachers and most parents do as they were asked think when they tried to correct a child to do exactly what the child wants him to do so be open their eyes and suddenly they realized and there is an exploration of the deep seeded pessimism of today when we tell a mother what to do with a child and she comes next week with the expression of utter surprise it really facts whether or not there are something that we have. As children we are
so deeply defeated by our inability to understand what to do. Could you repeat those four points about what the child has no tolerance of misbehaving children is attention the child wants attention. People passing are nice to me but if it doesn't get in I see it doesn't manage to distil as long as they get attention if they don't scold him and punish him if he is a louse. Then the fight becomes more intense and the child was in going on before. I'm going to miss power we are raising including number of times children who are determined not to give him tell of what to do they won't do it tell him what not to do it will be an amount to do it when the fight becomes more intense. The child doesn't want attention or power but revenge to get even for what they have done to him and they go away so that the child is to discourage that they want to be left alone. Now this is what the parents fought for to get from that tension when he wanted to get in a park conflict not defeated when he wants it. If you had to comply and tell him and to throw up their
hands I don't know what to do which is exactly what the child wants him to do leave me alone with him doing his thing. So unless we first open the ice to parents and teachers who want to go in they are no match for the child. Is this also the childhood goal in conflict. Is this also the model for adult adults to forgo it can be found exclusively in young children up to the age of 8 and them in adolescence they are still sometimes hear but then new problems come snakes dancing excitement and floodlights who have money power only still can go it's hard to belong. Well let's return now to the general theme of the future of conflict. Suppose nothing is done as it is. Yes. And what will happen what. We have all we have a civil war coming. We only do a balance and destruction of any Raphael You mean that literally literally. Yeah we should enabling it and it is primarily carried out by
black and white on the one hand. Students on the ballots and all that other women coming of pitchin into labor market region but the main forces opposing each other for fighting as used to it I see in Israel you'll ever see it go up which is becoming a bit of a fight and religious group between the Conservatives and the moderns. It sounds more like a candidate for anarchy than civil war because presumably blacks and students and women all have divergent go No it is not a Mickey wherever that's what they want because the lines they groups are consolidated in the process of polarization. The black and white only in the same boat they fight with each other and without knowing what to gain because either fight will give in and don't get any agreement and points it's between the men and women the only group isn't a conflict. You use an accomplice. The dogs are so unlucky with me that I will do that's what he wants by himself it is not true. That would seem to describe what many people choose to do now. Each one goes on way now but not everyone at once is all but he said something its people
misunderstand democracy as meaning and ways that I have to do with the ones that are mistakes but in the same time that is unification of the groups we have known leadership for our nation to integrate. But we have leaderships where each group which intensify the welfare of the group against the other. Nobody billing to giving us the other point of view. Well let's return now to the this ad Larry in view of dealing with conflict is the central point you mention was really the striving for equality. Their lives they shine up equality you see the negroes and the right are equal and the equality is expressed by their unwillingness to give in but they don't realize that they are equal and fight for equality. We have more equality and I were full and people don't know what it is. It will just lead to confuse it with similarity uniformity and all kind of things that is why my book tries to contact. So if I understand you correctly you're saying that perhaps 50 or 75 years ago blacks in the United States knew that they were not equals and I therefore behaved
in a subservient way to themselves. In class and accepted in the thousands but now knowing that they're equal. So if there's a conflict for equality I give an example about marriage and another not too long ago let's 100 you know that women did what men wanted. There was no sexual problems they had to give as much as little as they wanted. Said to me that the economic condition the cheapos if there was no difficulties what in those they did what men want and to have family was happy but not when women out of their sense of equality makes it in months in the most intimate relationships they don't know how to function because they don't recognize each other's equality to a man and woman that wants children and even children amongst themselves in a horribly competitive strife. Each one tries to be ahead and to appeal to the other one. And you're saying that that can't be done on a need to fictionalize. Well now what what's the the resolution of this how should we deal with coming out training parents how to influence the children. And we describe
twenty thirty six point thirty four points in our group of children to challenge their mothers to learn what to do how not to talk too much how to excellently how to encourage one of the things wenches which is a tremendous step to at Harmony as a family is very simple to Bascom technic as soon as the mother gets upset she goes on a bus improvise you know how to do it. She has to have some good reading material and a radio. Then she sits up in it with things over and within a few days or weeks. Superman is homeowners because she extricate herself from the money position with a child. Her boss only said the collation of independence why not send the child to the battery that you have no right to tempt him. That is the main point you can tell they want to want to know because they won't do it in one breath you can only decide what you can do and I think this is one of the points only start as some of the things they want a family the family can only run if there isn't a Democratic family. That means a family council where everybody listens and talks and they decide how to help each other and what to do and it changes the whole home within a few weeks.
Almost made them wonder two weeks ago I gave the votes cast yesterday and both cluster was very skeptical how much change an audit would have teeth and all of the 11 delegates who are here at that but I. Will you admit it's the men that it worked. I never believed that they came immediately to my rescue because they danced and people can't believe that something can be done. What else is in this programme he said a 34 points. I encourage my and logical consequences points and treat them as they go. Our parents makes a good child better and the better child with us and we have this pathological condition. Brotherly love was once a sign of greatest devotion. Today you wouldn't miss your biggest enemy to be treated like the other three to each other fighting for every little bit. So the parents can learn to treat a whole group of children as one group to go to bed them and actually he can accomplish unbelievable. If we fear the clinical idea that they are deliberately idea. That each child knows he is
his brother's keeper and not the enemy as they are today. You have an example of how one might do this when something is broken you have to make up words when something is wrong you'll correct it when something is stolen you find out you mean to say something is broken. Yet you say that all the children together must replace it or not. Are the children your children as a group. We emphasize the group the group alone can change variables and make what it teaches just group discussion and share with the group. If teacher can singlehandedly teach and correct each other our teachers I was very good as long as a child wants to learn how to behave themselves. But if you decide otherwise I don't know what to do with him and we have to teach them until we describe all these techniques I can't animate all of them but I hope you get some ideas that they are Bill different techniques. Are there a few central themes or central points which unify these thirty four. Are there some more general rules were you having with conflict may be I can tell you about this. I recently found on poor steps by which
conflicts can be resolved in a democratic setting these are general young and applies to everything. The first thing you have to stop fighting and nobody is obliged to fight we have to respect ourselves and respect our fellow man. I gather what he does. That is the first order. Now if you don't fight you people can't accept it unless you know better methods if you mean to ask him to stop that and don't give my identity if it doesn't go so we have not to go to other steps to assure that none of us. But don't people often find themselves in a situation in which they're the victims of aggression. What do you do then. I thought here as much as you can. Suppose you're accosted by a street hoodlum or a woman you're accosted by a rapist What do you do. Excuse me you can't do that much about it but one has to learn to fix that regardless what happens we have to make the best out of it. Now I think you're jumping the gun a little bit because you will see the next thing of course when somebody tries to shoot you are dead. That's not psychology anymore that's not sociology
anymore. We're speaking about how they get out by training ourselves it doesn't mean that we can't was a victim of somebody who abuses us. So this is what one would do before these situations arise. Many It comes I thought a different story again. I have one principle which saved my life many times in difficult situations. I don't intend to suffer. I maintain if something is bad it's bad enough it's made my truth on top of it and they will be amazed how many other situations you can be opposite. But he's alone now just refused to suffer. It's not going to put a fight. He and I will show you how it works it was a concentration camp because we will be in witness that we know about it. Second is you have to pinpoint the problem in all conflicts. It is not the complete what with your talk which is a conflict with the underlying history of the relationship. Feeling abuse wanting to be in feeling deprived feeling annoyed behind all the problems in its subject if problems like with children.
One of the four votes for that is getting up in the morning or doing school work whereas the issue is not what to argue about it so the conflict is never what it seems it's always something else and they have the means of showing you how it is to enable you to pinpoint a conflict where they said these children don't support go it's simple. Could you give an adult example where that the apparent conflict is not a real conflict. Most labor problems the companies of Levi about religious and balance many of these are secondary to this feeling of neglect and a group of loggers had to do some evenings there and didn't get any coffee. Next moment as I was ready to make some a common economic demands to leave a conflict that only fake problems. It's a question of power. I think question of power of meaning of getting even if that is not that other issues which have to be resolved if not the money I give you an example about it. Young men say it. These principles clearly apply was one of the appeals to made me aware that applies to labor we are now
negotiating down a member of the Union we have to fight. I mean found out that the union people can pay 7 percent and they know it but I have to ask for 10 in order to get seven and they have to offer fighting out of the seven if I would be stupid enough to fight for us for seven and I would get it if the question of this but I don't think means compromise so they fight the fight was a detrimental about it so what do you do if we don't get now comes the next step this is step 3 No no Stuart don't fight them. Second one is identify where you are simply with that issue and not it is a symptom. Now the third point is you have to reach agreement nor money people can't understand how can you reach agreement in a conflict. Then a simple I use the example of a calm of a doll. When you read only the lines of one act two it doesn't make sense that you have to read those we all read only the lines of our opponent and don't know what we are doing and therefore they cried out so I was the problem because we can't make him stop but when we
begin to stop thinking about them and him and think that we can do we can change your whole relationship. We can't even fight with somebody if he that refuses to fight with us. And their typical example is about concentration camp. Viktor Frankl one of the most horrible conditions he found his own Mugabe's own freedom which saved him and his fellow prisoners in the home. Giving up and being destroyed and the only circumstances when you begin to think what I can do you open the door and then you experience an unbelievable strength which I never suspected. And the first one is one can solve problems by dictate only with the dissipation in decision making the other conflicts are there is it applies only to the modern world today right in a democratic society. And the future of mankind goes in this direction. Right now we enter civil war because people don't know how to resolve the conflict. But once we teach them a number increasing number of people become capable within their own field to change it. We have to train leaders the parents cannot be bosses but you don't have to at the
gate. You have to become leaders. It has to be a leader not an authority. And the labor problems are there and it's we have to have leaders who help us to come to a point where they can only believe it's not fighting. Can every man be a leader. Every man can be seen to be a leader. Everyone can be at the end when I go to a department with political science I always ask them Do you train political leaders and the answer is always the same you can train them some of them don't. And that's a nonsense image that can play in every teacher and every parent to be a leader. Why couldn't we train politicians too and that is that hands up when they become more democratic that there's more leadership in the communities where we get together and own their votes seeing eye to eye. I think that the problem is a common problem and not mine against you. Doesn't this notion of needing leaders run counter to the basic thesis of equality under control. Because the leader is not superiority but they guy. Democracy does not mean everybody can do what he wants. That is unlucky and many people confuse it.
There Michael or Steve based on the basis of each agreement. It demands leadership and could live ina haze in this study saw the distinction between all to cut the can Democratic leadership we have to learn to develop Democratic leadership in our communities into one nation. Are there examples of the application of this to society's problems other than your experience with labor unions. I told you I was called into the to develop a system of a level of the noon heat up opposes same things that any of the alleged accomplice. How how does this technique fit in with urban renewal it's not clear how you even begin with the newest stuff was one of the things that they don't not in the little community whose day to a governmental either the architect and what is because the question which there needs to be to calm down so to which extent should one let the community people decide to which extent should lead them to exercise and I point out how one can only
solve the problem by step two step. Going together and not to fight and it can be a planet. It's not clear what the situation itself would look like to you put the people and the architects and government agents in one room I just want to go into big that I can keep or they did but it's been submitted and if they go on we like it when they start a community we have from the beginning of is complete equality in participating. Nobody has to decide that the community has no right to decide until the government has no right to decide and the architect of the right of that to own it only the obligation to participate in decision making is the kibbutzim a model for this. Only partially because there's a great deal of competition. All of the beginnings there under inferences that it adversely affect Israel and imported our ideas of competition and so on. But they may have a chance to really become the foreman of a new suicide. So perhaps the kibbutzim generation 15 years ago was a closer
model. Yeah yeah. Let's perhaps test this this notion with with some challengers. How does let's say the pathological criminal. Herein too you're dealing with conflict we have to change in criminal court which is completely out dated and most analysts know we've benefited to be to get a higher education a big become a better criminal in the logic that we have to get a lift to the criminal court and see the people as sick people as people who need help not condemnation. And when we treat them as like and we are doing that in many schools for the delinquent children friends and so group Reporters are given a typical example. There was a camp which had an excellent record and we got a doing a link when to leave it's as if to participate in making it with England fans until the principal made a decision. He found out that the four free afternoons which they had used too much. Yes it would be much better off when they wanted to for the Afghans to
decide to do that arbitrarily and the whole group got up in a row it's a destroyed furniture and if you sleep like that I think you have to tell us. So he left a mistake at a meeting to discuss within the what is better and it will come to the conclusion that two days two afternoons are better than what we have to do ever think that participation to teach on the clock only examples where the classroom is how the teacher can help the children to come to conclusions together and it can be done when the people don't believe it because they are pessimists and don't think anything can be done. Now what you described is the model for making a democratic society work in your view is there anything intrinsic in man that makes a democratic society either necessary or desirable. Equality is in need of society and man can adjust himself to only kind of societies you know look Magic Meets book on this and the primitive people insult me. The only people in societies to which individual adjusted himself and developed a certain pattern of personality. So there's nothing intrinsic in May and the drive toward democracy.
Me you know I think the logic of leaving many people think it is unhuman in your mind not to compete. It isn't human nature it is not human nature if you want to develop brain in a certain period of also society between the feudalistic system and the democratic system. Right so we have not only the option B horse of moving into if you will your democratic society with this approach to conflict but we could presumably move in another direction couldn't we. Your quotes but you would pay a high price for it. What would you see would be the outcome of the Civil War you anticipate and soon as we can apply these techniques we can really have harmony between people. But suppose we don't do that what would the route resolution of the Civil War be the possibility that we call for a new Hitler for a new strong man who we've been brought up and I don't think there's much chance in America. But everybody can't wait to and I'm lucky and when all of this disturbance we go to flower that moment caught with somebody with a strong hand. But you can't you won't last because the development is to our democracy. You can stop it for
that but you can stop the rocket to come down to the level of the ocean or the common level and you can't stop the development of society to a democracy. The only stuff and all the best bands open society. Now if I may recapitulate your four points in dealing with conflict is first I don't quite know mutual respect you have to respect the other on your side. And then the point was you know fighting this refused to fight you know that's part of it up. Then identify the issue and deal with the issue right this symptom and then third was what. Identify what you can do to reach agreement by not falling for the other agreement. You'll see points than when a mother fights with a child she agrees to fight but if she comes to a point that you no longer is fighting to try things to stop fighting you can get in and I won't get any power from other behavior tremendous poem. When we stop thinking what the other one should do and we begin to think what we could do and little knowledge of techniques which we can do from in government it's government anything it and to process one is
leadership to bring about participation in decision making and that presumably is a major role for teachers and educators today to move us in that direction. What single thing do you see would be required. Professor drivers to move us at a faster rate into this situation. There really is a shame that the traditional race and the pleasant ways are no longer effective. That we simply don't get and if they become a problem. Still I have the feeling that it probably is because other people are willing to join in and really it seems. Basically yes themselves. Well thank you very much Professor Rudolf Riker's this is been a most stimulating discussion of the future of human conflict. This is been another in a series of discussions presented by the world future society. Those of you who are interested in learning more about the society are invited to write for a free copy of our journal The Futurist. You may write to me Joe codes in care of this station or to the world future society. Post Office Box 1 9 2 8
5 Twentieth Street Station Washington D.C. Thank you and good night. Wouldn't you have been listening to the Future off of another in a series of discussions of alternative futures with Joe coats of the world future society. The preceding program originated from the studios of WMUR found American University Radio Washington D.C. This is the national educational radio network.
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The future of
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