NER Washington forum; Muhammad Ali
I don't think is right that these people who are at American University American college who has for me to come here and to work 20 minutes and 30 seconds with no salary when my fights don't last as long as the voice you just heard was that of Muhammad Ali once known as Cassius Clay and depending upon who you listen to he's either still or was the heavyweight boxing champion of the world. Minister Ali's trouble with the government and the World Boxing Association have been well documented in the press and broadcast media. He won the heavyweight crown five years ago by defeating Sonny Liston. He then successfully defended his title four times beating all contenders. He then changed his name to Muhammad Ali and announced his intention to become a minister of the Muslim faith and refused induction into the armed services. Thus began his troubles with draft boards in Kentucky and Texas and the World Boxing Association summarily stripped him of his title a point which is in contention by many. Muhammad Ali is our guest on Emmy our Washington forum. I am national educational radio public affairs director Vic Sussman. With me is Eastern educational radio network producer and newsman
John Lennon. Ali why are you in Washington. Well mainly I'm here in Washington speaking at Mohammad's mosque the Muslim temple here our headquarters in this city which is located at a 15 19 Fourth Street Northwest and I'm going on from here to an awful state college. And we all know there's a radio shows and TV shows and just having a good time now and not fighting. I'm not always in training camp like I used to be. I can now get out and meet all of the people. What is the purpose of all of this traveling around the country. Well mainly to have a serious race problem now going on in America. Everybody is confused black and white they want to know how can they save the country. They want to know how can they stop all the rot in the barn in what's called it who's the real leader who's got the solution and the most powerful is a black man in America they haven't mentioned the most organized that is the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
And many black people now have tried certainly and swimmy and léonie and walking in and they still get in he is beating and so they want to know more about the most films and they all they want to know more about what we represent they want to know how can they join with all Salaam promote Mohammed speaks newspaper which is some 2 million copies a week printed by the lights Muhammad and also mainly my torso to convert people to the religion of Islam will be talking about a thousand of them tonight at our religious Sunnah we might get 250 of them to actually join change their names and also go into the colleges and places they ask questions. Many white colleges such as MIT and lie to me. University of Buffalo commissioners University Farrelly Dickerson C.W. Post. I don't know and all of these places Harvard and Yale they've invited me and they want to know the solution to the problem and what those we the most homes and Honorable Elijah Muhammad believes will
solve it and this and that and so much for me to do. As a matter of fact I'm booked for about the next two months and 13 different colleges. Well you say you've given up boxing us at the end of all I have to right now I have to. Washington will allow me to fight in America they won't allow me to leave America nor will they allow me to box exhibitions of charity groups won't even let me do that so therefore I have to give it up for now. But if things of the green light should come on and things get OK if I feel like it they have a contender that stands a chance against me. Then I might come back and challenge him. What is the present status of your case. Well we have appealed in the five years prison sentence and the $10000 fine that's now in the courts is left up to the judges were just waiting to see what the lawyers are going to do what the judge is going to do was left up to God. So whatever happens if it means go to jail while going to jail. And if I get justice
I'll be free so whatever happens I really don't care i'm just wait until they get to the end of it. Well let's explore the background of this. Mohammed you could have done a number of things other than what you did you could have. There's a lot of people said you could have simply gone into the service and stayed in special services and done nothing but exhibition boxing. Oh I was all for that by government officials and so you know on the other hand you could have left the country and been welcomed in any number of African nations all right why did you choose to stay and face five years. Yeah well number one I'm not a cow. I rather be a day and he rolled out alive would see that I wanted to kind of me and those who compromise and those who take a stand on something you should remember there are only two kind of me and those who compromise and those who take a stand I have taken this day and I could do as many whites are doing right and they can only given up citizenship Mocket I still
have my draft card I have about my draft card. I have been laid on the Pentagon steps I have been home no statues of Lyndon Johnson and I haven't been no American flags. I'm only doing once legal I'm in the courts still have my draft card as a matter of fact doing what the law say you can do. The law says you don't have to go but you might have to pay the penalty. This is saying is that our minister is exempt. So now they're trying to see if I'm sincerely a minister but I wouldn't mourn or run out of the country I wouldn't do not like this and the reason I didn't serve is because I'm a Muslim first. I believe in Allah the Holy Koran. And it teaches us that we who declare ourselves to be righteous most films do not take no part in was no way fashion or form that take the lives of other humans. Note I said in a normal way fashion or form even if they offered me a uniform and said take the oath but I just said At home we don't have to go nowhere just just wear the uniform when you're at home.
I could even do that because I have taken all felt all law take an oath out to God and now I can't take it out to know other governments are powerless. So my prayers my sacrifices we say and our prayers daily my prayers my sacrifice is my life and even my death is all from Allah. So if I join up with America or any other country then no longer can I say my prayers or feel good when I say my prayers my sacrifices my life my death all for no other governments or no other rules America and nobody else. It's all for our law. So go for it. I know I could of went to a hospital on Newmarket abox exhibitions or stayed at home with a uniform but sincere. I gave up my wife my first wife cost me $150000 to divorce which set me back a long ways just because he would wear most on dress and long dresses. So my record shows that I was
sincere in my faith even before the drouth of all of those people say and I'm using this just because of the drought. This is a lie because there was a national bound headline on me fighting my first wife because she wouldn't join the faith and diverse job beautiful black woman I want to produce in America diversity because she wouldn't cover her knees. Then the 10 million are white men to back to me in Louisville Kentucky they had a press conference just before the draft came up. They said they were confused because they have lost money in their investment in me because I've turned down 10 million dollars in commercials roaders endorsements on advertisements movies and rock and roll records things that a minister should do. So first draft thing just happened to be another thing that's a thousand percent against my religious beliefs and that's all and I don't see why America is white America mainly is so shook up over all slave like me our black mayor who don't have freedom or civil rights or human rights where you go right. Why be so shook up over me not running to fight
for America when white people don't want to go and they don't go. And George Hamilton had or he was a millionaire. He had to support his mother in some way he stall around and got out of it. But he was white. So the people see this and then Joe name and they had a bad knee and he couldn't go cause his knee was bare but he still play football is rough for their ears. But they just grab me. Fine example is the George plastic you know attorney from Washington saying that we have to make him an example Georgia because if you get out of this thing all negroes will be want to do there so they make me an example. To put fear in the other soul they won't want to be most films so it's really hypocritical for Weis to attack a slave who were my people were three hundred ten years to build a country fall and died and all America was Japanese or German while Korean War Vietnam. Steal way to far as fat as hotshot SAS NATO and black people rotten a day this is why black people are just disheartened don't give just gave up and don't want to wait for no promises
because they see the great politicians like Adam Clayton Powell who is a black man who didn't sell him out who spoke up regardless to what whites think stood up form they like pal now and the white power structure then get rid of power. Then Martin Luther King was a man that they looked up to the masses them believed he was the man from God and they bumped him off. Why the white men did marry him caught him yet. Then they look at their world heavyweight champion who they love who never went off to man white women who stood up for me when no force integrated never called no racial trouble didn't smoke didn't drink never been in a jail for not stay with his own can you don't bump him off. So what does the Negro out there feel nail this is why he's a rat and burn it or shoot it out with the Guard National Guard an army he don't see no future he's just a slave. When his great inspiration his leaders his idols are just bumped off like he'll never be as great as Martin Luther King the black man in the street here never be as great as Mohammed Ali. He'll never be as great as Adam Clayton Powell. So when you bump out of his inspiration his leaders his politician his tempi and
he just don't see no future. He really have no say so if we don't. So I like to say to all white folks this is why black people so disturb you take the leaders and they gone and their politicians and. And Diana be Lijah Mohamed a black man that they know was for the home that has a go program he's more attacking hateable white and anybody else. Well there is a man that has nothing to say is all this is these are the masses rays and all day all day. What do you think the future is in the next say 10 years for the negroes in America. Well Ali lived a moment but 10 years of 10 10 years from now I won't be no problem what races will be a separation but they are I'm sure by ten years and there won't be no more watching than demonstrate and promises are to be all over black people to be all some words to themselves and their own government. I'm sure a least 10 years from the time is so short. Well what do you think it will end that way.
Well that's what our allies wanted teaches us almighty God whose proper name is Allaah told him that the only solution to the race problem is separation and we should not be done integrate we should be done to separate. We should be done to clean up our own neighborhoods and make them a better place to live and quit fighting to be in white neighborhoods just because they look clean and nice. We should be done to respect and protect our own women since the man's a woman is the feel which produces as a nation if we don't protect us feel he will produce a bad nation. Black men don't respect their women embody a White me and come in our neighborhood Fridays Saturdays and Sundays and just use lay around black black women in the ME and don't even protest whites have lynched the negro. Five Negroes to get the right one that they think touched a white woman which is only a right respect your women but black men don't do the US is not that we hate blacks and we know that we hate whites and we know as a whole whites really the way black people for whites hate black people they were never married to children they would let them cook the food while the same white man a little black man rages children cook his food and then when he goes out to socialize he don't eat with him so as not they actually
hate him as a nature. They won't allow the two to get along. And once the black men wake up to nature he'll quit forcing himself in a white society. They're going to live in your neighborhood he'll want to live in his own neighborhood begging you to eat which he'll only eat with his own bacon the mare you women he'll on America's own woman here want to child it looks like him nobody wants to mix up their blood and lose their identity and spot up the family. So once the black people wake up to this then they'll be willing to separate so I was in the question where this will be and where it will be as soon as black people wake up to the real leader of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. So Eugene just said truth make you free he didn't say a manly gun he didn't say certain lands women and léonie and open house and shoot and loot. Jesus said truth make you free I'm free I'm done I don't have no trouble all to hell I'm catching with Washington and all hell I'm catching mbox and I'm as happy as I can be because I'm free everything man I want to shout as I have been there I know I'm free. So we're not dying to get in a white neighborhood I'm not dyin America white woman I have a black woman last second wife my first wife was black so I came be
lynched for running with white women cause I'm not looking for one. And I came home and beat up for going in neighborhoods I'm not wanted cause I just want to be with my own people male. So I'm free now. See because I have the truth. And as soon as black people get free and hear the truth I mean they will be free and it won't be no racial problem because they as a matter of time they all are war and African Herodotos now they call each other black man they call each other brother they call each other source the sea the sea that Elijah Muhammad is plantain is starting to grow. All we need now is a good rain. Some play eggs and soon they will all be most Slims. Ten years at the most. Ten years at the most before they all wake up and start thinking like a thing. They're coming every day now we number one million eight hundred thousand. And every day they come in they tall black power they talk Afro-American to black nationalist all economy lighter moment but they don't want all out right except him. But after a few more plagues and trouble. In ten years at the most all black people will be most Slims.
What do you think of other black leaders like Stokely Carmichael ROB BROWN On one hand and people like Roy Wilkinson. These are all black people who are fighting for the freedom of their people doing what they think is right. Although their approach is different we don't agree with each other's approach but we are fighting the same common enemy and we have the power structure America. But we have different approaches for example there's a war going on in Vietnam. One man fights from the air. Another man fights from the land. Another man fights from the router. They all have one man it's a spy he's a Secret Service man they all are fighting the same common enemy as they say the North Viet Cong. But they have different approaches. Same we in America all black people fight for freedom justice and equality. One man believe open housing is down so one man believe burning up the country and shooting up the country get some rifles and oust them. Another man believes that in a marriage one day in about 200 years everybody be white all light brown call after we integrate and makes
it all blue and he thinks that's the answer. Another man thinks taken over the government be in the mail one day a black president our politician education he thinks that will solve it. We followed on the lie to mom and we think that houses separating grow our own food clean up our own neighborhoods respecting all women doing some fast sales and quit being lazy beggars all separate and that's our solution. So I'm not here to condemn or to talk about none of these fellows. I'm with all of them as long as they are doing what they think to be right. Although I may not agree with their approach but with them in their sincere with the Olympic Barcott as long as they believe that this is what will get them freedom I will make people recognize the problem or recognize their seriousness with the Olympic bar cause I'm with all of them although I don't follow him I'm not in that movement but in my heart the sympathy as well and I'm not condemning them. We just have different approaches to fighting for this freedom. Yeah you just talking about political
matters. A moment ago among other things a. Solving this problem do you see in the upcoming election in November any one candidate is being any better than the rest. As far as you're concerned I don't vote. We as Muslims take no part in voting. But I can speak for what black people how think they feel. The ones who do vote the ones that are Christians and most limbs they all of a Bobbie get it they all of forget it black people as a whole. I mean he wins them when he walks through black neighborhoods and shake hands with black people with no put security around him and they run their fingers all through his hair. He got on TV once and he said he came blame a black man for not want to go to Vietnam. After going over there fighting for somebody to get freedom when they don't even have it he comes home he's not free he came by our house here you don't get justice here. And these kind of things when black people because that was true what he said in the black man couldn't put in a more plain o. And they really believe that if there's any about a pig they all are saying now that
all white people are like all of us just promise annoyer things will be the same. But if I was a so-called Negro and if I didn't understand like I do and if I was a politician I would be thinking like the masses of black people that candidate is you know young and he's seems to be a real liberal and he wants to do good for black people and they cannot see him really turn around and get nasty and fake it. And the one re his brother was shot I imagine because he really tried to do good like Lincoln and Bobby Kennedy has that same type image that black people like as a whole. So I'm not a politician I'm not a vote. But if I was a voter I would fall for him. From what I've seen if I had to vote for somebody white and if I was in a grade and thinking like they did he would be the best mayor and this is the way all black people think and I feel about the colleges in the streets I'm Every day I'm in a different city I travel as much as the president imagine in the country and they all of a
candidate they love Bobby Kennedy. Many whites to. Let me ask you some questions about the Muslim faith. How many members of the religion you think there are more or less impossible to predict. Lalo most homes but a lot of sympathy goes with it I register they are free and because we get so much hay all of what has happened to me because my faith scares them they don't want to lose their jobs or their position. See America bows of friendship of what America has quit feeding people in America quit having the money to help people here see that you don't have to Mina Frias and love these black people you see on your television shows on your Merv Griffin Show. They are most women hard but they don't tell you you same way George Bishop show you Johnny Carson. You're no stain as you see saying in the new rock n roll groups and your jazz musicians all Negroes are norm. They almost limbs and they grow stars on certain TV shows. They all wholesome minded but they don't outright tell you and they haven't actually joined on to it. But I'm out of time.
There we all but impossible to say how many it would be like to mamma teaches us there are 25 million Muslims in America that nature black people the most and as Muslim or anyone who believes in God one who submits centrality to God so we all are right as a person. So by nature this is in black people they believe in God they are righteous people they humble people they're forgiven people they love the enemy they pray for the world to supply this by for use and they forgive them and they turn the cheek. Black people as a whole are really. God fearing people so by nature they're Muslim but they don't know but are registered in maybe around some million and something. But there are hundreds of thousands and millions who don't proclaim it yet. I'm just one who's bold enough to say it but there are many who think like us you know like Lou us and know a lot of big stars who are not really members but they don't most here. Well let's talk about the face and you said something earlier about being pledged not to take life in any way. Two questions on that score
then. How could you ever climb back into the ring again knowing that you might possibly kill someone. Well number one the intention when I go into a boxing ring is not to kill but the intelligent as I'm actually well I would have been accidentally happened but there why our intention is to kill kill mama kill Daddy kill baby just keel keel keel in the rain all we have to use is fierce and they are wrapped with cushions their route would cotton the only contact the only weapon the use you would see is the fierce and they are properly padded. But in the army we use tanks and we use machine guns and and we use bombs that we use coal hot steel and then tension as the keel. But in box and there's just a when a decision now Klassen. It's not like we have a referee there to check the man if he's accidentally hurt. They stopped like combust a mouthful Joe Frazier has as a local glass and they stopped it. We have his manager his trainer at every three minutes who checks him. Plus
we have the world witnessed it and watching it. Then why do you kill people you do everything to him and nobody is there to see it. You get all kind of false reports on it but the world is watching the boxing match. We have doctors and ambulances there. We have the state and the Commission know who are who authorized the physicians and they stop it as soon as the man is hurt. Their intention is not to kill. So boxing cannot be compared with war using guns and bombs and going out to kill cut a man's heart out blow his brains out blood and if you notice my fights I've been criticized personally for not knocking out my me and backing off when they hurt because my intention has not been a minister and fighting to put me on the spot. This is why when Henry Cooper was bleeding so bad in London there was reports they'd show the family slowmotion twice were all lighten up on him because I don't like blood. And when I found shallow Howard Cosell on Wide World of Sports gave mail for not knocking him out local sale on Wide World of Sports gave me hell for not knocking out a rail. He gave me hell for not heard about us and then the same man would give me a all for killing a
my this in boxes brutal boxes should be outlawed was procol sons should prob cautions should be taken to keep these men from being hurt so while I think the best protocol surely is when a man see that he can hurt him and he knows the get to fight one. Just don't take advantage of him and Palin may kill him. So this is my style before the draft came up before the attack. See I'm always attacked if you don't believe in walk. Then why do you want to ring a fight you hurt people there you fight there. Well my record shows that I like no I have lightened up on people and my intention was not to hurt and I have admitted that I cannot them now but didn't because I don't want to do so. Boxing is nothing like war and we can't cut and per box and war. So you will see boxing as WA boxing is a brutal killing. Horse racing is more dense than boxing you don't call it war. Racecar driving is more dense than boxing you don't call it war football of most more dance than boxing we don't call it war. Ice Hockey has a much modelled them boxing we call that war. See so I can explain
myself. And there's nothing you can ask me that I haven't been asked by a college student some people and if you asked me a question of any way of attack not saying you're attacking me. Trap to me are challenging me. I think four or five times before you do because I've been to the wisest colleges in America white and black talk with the wisest TV radio announcers and I can elaborate. I was just on your question so I think before you asked me a question and make it worse I asked it. Well let me ask you this. Why is it that the Muslim faith is so successful in recruiting a lot of its members from prisons. Well number one as Jesus said. Jesus told His disciples many. Jesus had a feast. Jesus is invited to DR-DOS. Jesus invited the lawyers invited describes in all big shots the scribes of the people who can read and write in that day and the doctor had a patient. And the lawyer had a client he
was too busy to come to Jesus and a scribe says I'm teaching and reading writing to do so Jesus told His disciples for going on ground I have always been about ways and get the little people and those that we call lest we are put those we call first we are put layers and the ones that we call last were perforce meaning God in all of His prophets as went after the meek humble people the poor the condemn the downtrodden. God came to Moses who couldn't read couldn't write Jesus was the literate of his day. Nor was he literate A lot was the literal Nanami Lijah Mohammad himself stop School and Center still George in the third grade. So the only people who will react to guard are the people in the mode the people in the jails these are the ones that come quicker. And this shows that the most non-programmers the powerful is this show that they are a bit like you know how many is from God. People call themselves condemning us by saying to us why is it that you just convert to prostitutes. Why is it that jailbirds owners want to be moved homes. Why is it that this is the
homosexuals. Why is it that as an educator it was this shows you that this Elijah Mohammed is actually a divan. This is the worst man to clean up the homosexuals. This is the worst in women to clean up a prostitute This is the worst man to clean up to stop her from drinking. The man in jail just part of the smoke and making him clean up yourself be would his own want to marry his own. Quit fighting and killing one another. So this shows that a man is from God. But see you have the house slave in the olden days and you had the yard slave when the slave master's house called on far the house slave beat the master put not a farce and lost lost our houses on far. He lived with the ball see a chicken with the bars the bars gave him his old leftover steaks and his old clothes and whenever the boss's house caught on fire he be the boss put it out. But that field slave their yard slave that was the prettiest Farr he ever seen when the master's house caught on fire. He would just say BABY BURN BURN BURN. The master was weapon him flush him blurbs runnin down his back from them whips he didn't
give a damn if the master burned up too. But the house slave he helped the Master Soul to day. What you're talking about is the yard slaves are sent to jail is the one is hungry have no future the ones deprived of freedom justice equality. They understand this to be the truth. They come to it real quick. But your negro in the White House your negro flyin you jet planes. Your Negro has a job downtown. Your Negro has a pretty home up on the heel. You can't get to him all me and he said he's eating good all he think he's white mayor. He's the modern day house slave. But as the yard slaves the guard come to the yard slaves that the most homes are getting which of the masses. And when you get enough yards lays they will rip their house slave into submission. Don't you know he's had to bring about a change. Don't you notice whenever we have rats all of a sudden all Negroes become soul brothers. Whenever you have a rat whenever Brown and Lawson is going on every negro the bourgeois are the one who looks white I don't care how integrated he is he becomes black all of a sudden.
Brother although there is one doc and coming through Washington I saw whole brought birth down and one little store stand in THAT'S THE FUNNIEST THING EVER SEEN. One little store standing not on the market and everything around you just hold down and unloved said so bro and I say meh go unless we want to be right. But all of a sudden he's a soul brother so we get enough house slaves together enough jailbirds together and clean them up and they build a few house slaves and we'll just automatically whip them into submission. Now I'm going to have it and I'm going to have to stop here and I hate to you know we had a good time but we're out of time. You've been listening to a conversation with Mohamed Ali who's just getting hot. The heavyweight boxing champion of the world according to himself and many supporters. I am national educational radio public affairs director Vic Sussman with me has been Eastern educational radio network producer a newsman John Lennon. Our thanks to Muhammad Ali. Be with us again next week for another edition of any are Washington for
a weekly program concerned with significant issues in the news. This program was produced by W am USM American University Radio in Washington D.C. technical direction by Stephen children Frei. This is the national educational radio network.
- NER Washington forum
- Muhammad Ali
- Producing Organization
- WAMU-FM (Radio station : Washington, D.C.)
- National Association of Educational Broadcasters, WAMU-FM (Radio station : Washington, D.C.)
- Contributing Organization
- University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
- AAPB ID
- Episode Description
- Muhammad Ali discusses the draft, race relations, and the Muslim religion.
- Series Description
- Discussion series featuring a prominent figure affecting federal government policy.
- Public Affairs
- Media type
Host: Sussman, Vic S.
Interviewee: Ali, Muhammad, 1942-
Producing Organization: WAMU-FM (Radio station : Washington, D.C.)
Producing Organization: National Association of Educational Broadcasters, WAMU-FM (Radio station : Washington, D.C.)
- AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 67-24-61 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
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- Chicago: “NER Washington forum; Muhammad Ali,” 1968-05-21, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed December 9, 2023, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-gh9b9q65.
- MLA: “NER Washington forum; Muhammad Ali.” 1968-05-21. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. December 9, 2023. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-gh9b9q65>.
- APA: NER Washington forum; Muhammad Ali. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-gh9b9q65