Tender twigs; Love is not enough

His education informs the common mind. Just as the twig is bent the tree's inclined. This is serious the tender twigs proposes to bring together those best able to address themselves to the individual and social problems of youth in the 20th century. It proposes to discuss a few of the most clearly recognised problems of our time. Mental health. Delinquency crime social pressures and human growth. And the practical steps that parents school community and church may take in order to ensure youth development that is safe sane and straight.

The tender twigs is produced and recorded by W. K R radio at Michigan State University under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters. The tender twigs are youth the task to help them grow safe sane and straight. The title of this program. Love is not enough. This program features a single guest. Each week we present a distinguished person who we feel has left a mark on our time by his thought and by his work. As it relates to our youth our guest is Dr. Bruno Bettelheim head of the University of Chicago's authentic school professor of educational psychology in the university's Department of Education psychology and psychiatry. Dr. Bethel Haim was born in Vienna trained in psychoanalysis is the author of individual and mass behavior in

extreme situations symbolic Lunes truants from Life Dynamics of prejudice and love is not enough. The subject of this program our interview. Well the series is Ben Thompson. Dr. better line may we begin by taking the title of this book. What is the meaning do you hope love is not enough. Well I have to admit that this is in some parts argumentative. A title its title I could have known as a book companion piece was the title but it is important. When I say cards or book Love is not enough I didn't mean to suggest at all. Love is not a very greedy and so very essence that must parent child relations. If the child has to grow up

into a desirable person what I wanted to suggest is that there is much more involved in love. What is commonly thought of it such as to spend time to play to have a good time to provide material goods. What I meant was that while the concept of love certainly can be extended to include. Very careful planning a great deal of setting one's own self-interest second to the interests of such a child. Odds are that if love is conceived so broadly as to encompass all of sat and love is enough. But unfortunately I've seen are too often parents will say I just love my child but a beloved child was

supposed to change his life or parental conveniences. I ask at this point do we live in a period of time in which love has taken on a kind of commercialized meaning which actually makes it very difficult for the average parent to translate love as it is supposed to be into love as it actually is. Let me put it this way every time and every age has its own sets and its liabilities. And I'm getting a little bit discouraged resource people who rightly point as their fingers to the shortcomings of our time regard as a tremendous advantage just the same as that end up us. It seems to me that in any in any society in any culture the art of living if I may call it said consists in taking the best advantage of supposedly first picked this

particular culture of firsts and. Careful planning mitigate so liabilities of its culture so very idea as a millennium as a corner ever will have a society bizarre playability this doesn't appeal to me because nothing in history backs up the notion that this is possible. You do not see then such a limitation on our understanding of the meaning of love in our time. As many authors of our time see. Well I really can't argue with ourselves you know so so much is that so much sensible stuff is there to learn so much stuff is written in this field. I really don't quite know to whom you refer to this moment. Could it be a little bit more explicit. Well I'm thinking of some of the things that Eric farmer said in terms of mass society in terms of our market economy.

Well I was saying farmers are astute student of society and has correctly assessed benefits shortcomings but I think you also have to assess its advantage us. You cannot talk of the market society if you buy a certain piece of Gurd you buy just as you buy with it its advantages. Now I ask then concerning the works of Robert Lynn when he writes his work about the term adjustment and its meaning for our time in which he is very critical of this particular idea as a cultural facet of our being. Yes it's very easy to be critical of empty relatively empty concept of adjustment is given to paly no ideas but I think Dr. Lynn not one

fortune is there any one of us would manage to live in a society where nobody would make any effort to just you know see if you live in a time off maybe an over emphasis on the adjustment. You get very sensitive to that. Do you tend to overlook said vantage as it brings it. Let me use a very simple example. It is two maybe a hundred years ago New England or New England was very different from plantation culture solves itself or you could say that greater diversity in our society. I was as I had to like your New England farmer ever to visit a plantation solves practically nil. Visit area in which his life circles then move. I would say it is a culture of us as homogeneous as you know the whole of the United

States homogeneous. So you see this is an example aspect if that is very often applied when you think of a man like us who moves around all over the world. And they form and then because what he has had about a great diversification of lots of us like a hundred years ago only a hundred years ago we didn't travel all over the world. So you see ease of travel you get this evening out of differences which is as much a consequence of your ability to travel because you carry things with you and you meet other people as individual variations that result of CEP sense of such free transportation communication that interrelations. So just to try to make my point that each society has its asset its liability if you are going to have it all over the world the world will become somewhat more uniform

that supplies you have to pay for the ease of traveling. Since I have heard supposed to talk about children who talk about children in a moment. Since we're on this question of authors I would like to take up this point I mean you're making a point which I don't think is not often made in our time especially by the writers. Now as Dr. Masel writes in talking about the self-actualizing person and he maintains that we should spend more time concentrating on the characteristics of the positive contributors to our society and less of our time concerning with the correction or the maladjusted and the abnormal. I certainly subscribe to Dr. Siri which is really pretty close to what Father means with this autonomous means with this autonomous person if I understand correctly. In general I found a little patience whereas it's an education a child tearing in

community play I mean I was always always people continuously complain about the evil features of society. But then I asked well why don't you go and why don't you join the society and so your influence improve it so you can't be bothered to reset. We'll talk about children. Yes I think I say I because I have equally little patience resource parents who spend more time to complain about a new generation than they would spend time to understand what this generation is than to help them correct. You spent a great portion of your life working with the abnormal child and as you point out on as the anthropologist studied primitive culture and maintains that he has a better understanding of modern culture because he saw a primitive culture in small scale whether or not this is open to question is his obvious. How about What are the kinds of things that you see in children in their grossly exaggerated

form that are merely a grossly exaggerated form of rather normal behavior that sometimes parents get very disturbed about because they feel this is very much out of line. Well firstly up to most TV children in the United States maybe in the world each time to get a new child which isn't too often he has committed that he has beaten up his parents he is committed he has locked himself up and he hasn't been eating for months and had to be hospitalized far Novak says it's a technical term and what have you. Here's why it doesn't talk at all. It looks pretty scary you know. We see the

youngster and lo and behold it's just a little kid. Yes but basically just a little skit trying to make sure people really respect him. Fighting for his life in short. Well they are face to fight for your life and fighting for your life which I disapprove and for good reasons. But the kid himself is just fighting for survival. I'm thinking of some of the things now that we emphasize a great deal in our homes. Cleanliness proper sex education sex behavior politeness anyway. Let's start with this because I had a very interesting experience.

I was talking to a group of parents and this issue you know came up with the PTA ups middle class upper middle class suburbs intelligent well educated people most of them college educated girl intelligent you know little concern for their children. And many of them spoke up and I let someone on because I was curious about it. If you say I'm coming from play and you know and it's all it's a play off before they come in and take it all over the house and so well having seen youngsters of my own a tall man having a problem here with 40 youngsters from me you know it's a problem. Why don't you put some more drugs met in front of your back door.

Well strangely enough towards these people who were told loudly complaint about supply problems that are presented to a lender there's not one hits out of the old wanted since the children should do all this thinking and planning while in my books you know their order as a more it behooves you to do the thinking for the mature mind. So there's a part I want to be and I meet with these parents which I think is a very simple down to the point and I'm amazed infrequently it is me and my pointless of following these parents not tell me when you call your kid in for dinner you know and he was playing darts I say sure done a nice kid was a kid I was a kid is all excited and all steamed up. Doesn't like to be interrupted so well when you are in this such a situation it sets a tad of any subject to listening.

Well after some hesitation to admit it's of worst possible time to expect them to apply reasoning when they want to do something very badly and I would lean toward up for somebody else's convenience. You know how to fit into somebody's body and this pattern of time and I gotta zation of life. So I pointed out that if you want to beat somebody. But it's the best. Well obviously there's a time when he's willing to listen to reason. So that is when he's not preoccupied with something else and when he's not aggravated because he had to interrupt something he wanted very badly to do after I asked him Well did you ever discuss dirty brink into your will. When they don't want to go out and play when they're bored and have nothing else to do wellness has said no reason to discuss it don't think in any depth. So I said enough at this moment you have no reason to discuss it. But that might be the moment very young star is willing to listen to reason. So my advice is

not to ask him to brush up to complain about the dirty brings in when he does it because then he has a good set against you anyway because you're courting him and self are in no position to listen to your reason. You might at first seem to listen to it because you as a parent you know you can't beat a youngster and he might agree to you you know every boy who is stored and is in front of the judge and the judge ask him don't you know you have to an uncle says sure after I know I have to have I'm sorry y because he knows that's what the judge expects and his self interest demands if he's not out of his mind to give this a judge. So the self-interest of young stuff requires a degree even that he shouldn't have put out in the day up. But that doesn't mean that he is thinking about it but after they have any at his desert it feels good about you because you fed him a goat then lunch at a nice conversation and he doesn't want to play anymore because her playing days are over. So when you take him to the door Johnny looked bored to death you brought in he said

only necessary. Couldn't you maybe be so kind to next time take your overshoes off a dog bring somebody in your bus your shoes off. Then saying you have even a frame of mind to take a listen to these. I'm wondering I think this quote as this is the difference between love I brought spare and those who discussed the child's difficulties with the child is least able to understand Siri's meaning and those who do it when he is most able to understand seriously. So equally clearly two loves your child the most examples probably love their children. So what I'm applies solid reasoning in addition to is love. The question in my mind I think is both difficult to form and probably to answer. How does the parent who is thinking about all of these things is thinking about how when do I tell my child what in order to get the greatest retold. How as a person can you convey that to a child without

actually also conveying a kind of manipulation of the child to the child. I don't see it. Monday palatial nurses. I don't see every office every place of your occupation. You will know you have to pick your time if you want to get some single customers a purse or only pair and saying whatever zie feel like it is a best time to get it across to the children. Same parent who will bail out the child but try to get him to see reason that's a moment who is least able to do so will use much better judgement when he works in his office and effectively. Why is this so. Because our children sometimes even our spouse for a long time have been helped bless bless and most convenience objects to discharge our emotions.

If you found us a great difficulty with the children who come to you this is the one thing I would tell difficult difficult to ignore trial comes my way professionally. Unless the parents used this child for discharging emotional needs of self. Now go one step beyond the home this institution for which you have been had for a number of years is called the Earth a journey school it is not called the Earth a journey home. Would you explain to us why. Well this is exactly. I'm glad you asked this question this moment because I think I've built up my case so common as we know it is exactly character. There's relatively little reasoning takes place as a mutual relations existing and or and a lot of discharge of emotions which are pleasing.

This characterizes unfortunately still typically as we know it and institutional is something plenty rationally for a purpose. Since we deal with children who suffer from an indiscriminate discharge of emotion and it isn't a positive emotion it's a negative emotion and I see quickness is also a discharge of emotion you know as you know you will not get much cooperation in your office. If you and I spoke you know such homes too. But it seems to me. Emotional closeness friendship and facts love if you like is necessary in all human relations. If you want to undo the damage done so as a discharge of

uncontrolled emotions then you have to build into an institution which supposedly collected a great deal of planning a great deal of sinking feeling and this is why I prefer to call it an institution. Another step beyond that I think. What about the school today. For the average child as you see and are there any clues that you can give either parents or teachers for recognizing children who are disturbed enough to need specialized treatment. You know in a very strange way the easiest way for us and an expert to recognize emotional disturbance is still statistically the kerf who ever appears and of SR to stick to distribution. Well I'm boss and say good and bad is in trouble. You know as a

probable choirboy who suddenly commits murder who knows a child who never gave any trouble or who suddenly breaks out into violence as a fall guy for violence. So I would say as a boss and normal distribution sign danger. Well we've been talking about love worsening and Doctor battle Himes office here at the school in Chicago and it's summertime and a wedding party has just gone by and those are the horns that you've heard in the background. So we've seen quote love in action. I'm sorry to interrupt the thought that you get both ends of the statistical curve. This is mainly a student and the E student well but is it all A student who always has a good slit and also always polite you know and always popular. You see you can very well be a perfectly normal kid straight A student. You know if you're just a kid

and you're not always in limitations I wouldn't worry about it. But that answer your question. One of the one of the kinds of things that teachers can do for. The kind of problems that they're likely to meet in a normal school situation is to just maybe Garner as an educator and concerned of course and as a parent of us a present discussion of the American school system. Now the American School System has been in for a long post for our discontent in our society. Whatever goes wrong it's a fault of the school as the school is suffering very badly by as a continuous ever again shall we say of our electorate assumes that it knows how school should be or watch school should not

if you want a school as a functioning institution you cannot continuously meddled with it. You know anybody who has a fancy watch and some containers that takes it apart and put it together pretty soon has a nonfunctioning watch and he knows that the only one who can know how to put a watch together said Watch me. Now I will not say that all our teachers or educators are competent. But that goes for physicians for lawyers and whatnot. But most of source people who complain loudest about educators. Have no basis on which to judge the competency of a teacher an educator I think every institution of society has to find its own way its own ground and develop its own methods. So American school was a continuous meddling criticism and interference by people who don't even know if the EBC of Education is never permitted to go up.

You have an immature school system because as appearance of the school system name it is a citizenship never permits a school system to grow up and then they complain that this system that they kept in bondage and immaturity and ridicule isn't doing any better. You might be a very strong supporter for abolishing school boards. This is a facetious comment and that's what I tell you if you want to ask of the school board is simply to buy to find and buys it best superintendant a principal they can find and their money can buy and then let them do the job. Returning for a moment to disturb children you have worked as you said with possibly the most disturbed children in America or possibly the world. Do they recover. I'm fortunate I'm not all of sudden but I would say

be candid you have believed it if you're lucky you always need a little bit of luck so hard. But with 85 percent of 7. How many students have gone through the University of Chicago's I think any school for several hundred over the years. Are you are you presently conducting follow up studies concerning the youngsters. Yes of course not scientifically. You don't fall out of some ups they all come back over here. And I'm glad to say that in life. Our guest has been Dr. Bruno Bettelheim director of the University of Chicago's Arthur genic school next week controls from within. Our guest will be Dr. David Weinmann School of Social Work Wayne State University. You have been listening to the tender twigs a series devoted to ensuring youth

development that is safe sane and straight. We invite you to join us next week at this time by the 10 to 20 years. Our interviewer was Ben Thompson Research sociologist by the state of Michigan was Department of Corrections. The tender twigs was produced and recorded by Wayne C. Wayne for WKRN radio at Michigan State University under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center. And is being distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters.

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