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75 pills were not enough. Marine took one sleeping pill for each two pounds and five extra. But it was too many or not enough. The stomach pump stopped the fun. Twelve year old Raymond ran away to the country to get some fresh air. But did not enjoy the ride back in handcuffs. A child needs love like a house needs a roof above everything else. Love is not all that a child means. It is only one of the things a house needs other things in addition to a roof. But it does need a roof. Otherwise everything in the house will be spoiled. A child cannot be exposed to the world without the love of parents and family any more than the contents of a bedroom can be exposed to nature's elements without being destroyed like a roof. Love not merely keeps things together. It keeps them safe and tight and warm. Love can be the moving force behind a caress or behind a paddling. It is love that sets the control on the paddling so that it is not a
beating it is not a prize fight. It is not attempted homicide. The loving hand warms and caresses point out directions indicates goals and aspirations and draws the limit lines for every game the child will play in early life. The good child. God does not mind limit setting. He prefers to play according to objective rules. The bad child ignores the limits but he is the very one who needs the most. The good child may be expected to test limits laid down by parents to see if he can safely venture to stretch them a little bit beyond the setting imposed by parents. The bad child ignores defines and breaks limits. He hates to submit and conform to rules but when he is given a chance or when he is simply not impeded he sets up rigorous and capricious limits for his peers and inferiors. He is capricious in the sense that if the other child to base his rules the bully changes them and the other child is made uncomfortable. Confused defeated and frustrated. Then he can be
punished by the bully. Here to discuss a child who is mixed up and worried because of a disorganised family situation is Father Duff a professor of sociology at Duquesne University. Father Duffy. We somehow expect better performance from other people's children than we do from our own. I think we all expect more from a large child than we do from a small one. We find ourselves more tolerant of the beautiful child the polite child the clean and the wealthy child married a 16 year old girl that we are about to interview has always been someone else's child to the people with whom she lived. She is large for her age. She lacks many of the advantages of other children through no fault of her own. She feels that if she stands still she will be called lazy if she tries to help. She is told that she is too forward and doesn't know or place her nervousness makes her drop things and then she has to pay for them. She's too
grown up for the privileges of childhood but not grown up enough for the rights and privileges of adulthood. She's really not ready for either state so she thinks of marriage or death as escapes from a status that is unbearable. But she might settle for living by herself here then. Is Marie. What you were going to. Marry. And how old are you Marie. Think I. Used to go to school in New York. And how far you'd go to go procure a school or public public. Your character. Yeah. How do you go to school. What's your worst subject. He really is. And what's the best. Math. And how you conduct in school. And again as an average You never had you had them sent to your parents or anything like that. You have. Do you a play truant. You know. When. And how big is your family. Six. Six altogether. Yes one of the two
boys three girls three boys two girls. And you're 16. Right. Yes and how old are the other ones. Johns 20 genes 18 Sharon's 20 tween loses 19 Alpha 17. So you're the youngest and there. Are these all your real brothers and sisters. Yes. We are mother father married before. This time. No. They weren't. Now you're living with your real parents and the people I live with. Yeah. You know. Who are they to you. Foster parents choice. Do you run away from them. You know. How come you came here this time. Because I didn't get along with him and you know. What. Are all this whole family John and you know they are living with these foster parents who are just you know just me and what happened to get you out of the family. They're are separated now rightly. Yes.
They are on their own to living by themselves. Yes right on the right I'm working yes. Is any of the married one was hearing's married. And let me ask you Are you married. No. OK and how come you came here because we ARE YOU were here once before which you two years ago. What was at that time I thought myself. You know because you can get along famously. Tell me something that happened when you were a little girl before he started school as far back as you remember I used to teach you know that for you think I don't have nice attention awful good at that time. You eat like you Polish guy. Did anybody ever comment on that. Sisters the thought I was a little ridiculous. You get on your face and hands. Yes. And what else happened when your little girl. And I got a lot of trouble when I was a little
girl. How about tell me about. Those. You remember if you keep trying. To. Hide. Oh I see that everybody around all the time. I used to act like I owned everything. Do you know why you do that. Now but I still do it today you talk like a grown up now I'm fat mom I still think I own everything. And your predicament. Was not. An average. How much would you weight even. On entail. How much handier in 40. Minutes. That's a lot for a 16 year old girl. I think there well he notices it when you are bigger than other children even though you are the same age and people expect more of you than they would have a little girl. You say
would. And didn't happen to you like. It did when I was in foster homes. Or were they almost expect you to be an adult and you were really only a child. Yes. And what was the biggest trouble you were ever in. Do you think it was going to happen when I tell you you know we don't go on air we can take it off and he don't worry father. I tell you I was commit suicide for you and how did you do that first. 275 kills you. Then why did you do it. Second. Well certainly fed up for what it was because I'm boring. Oh. Did he give you trouble or. You know if asked by a really good job Bush made a big issue out of nothing. I was your regular boyfriend.
When you say you know he may have tried to stray from me. And what happened he want you marry him or run away or what. No he came down to see me nobody was home. And when my parents first parents came home he ran upstairs. There was Beth being there that look at that he said it certainly did. She raised such a bird about it she didn't she was going to take him to the police. So she didn't call police it and never taking the next day and a day like usual she did she accused you of different things. She did you know you were very nice. What how does it feel when your accusers hope you didn't do terrible you feel like murdering everybody. And you wound up by trying to murder yourself right. Oh is he a nice boy. That's nice yes. Is he married. He says he's Catholic. And what would be pretty easy. Anything else dramatic like that ever happened to you.
That was Mr. Mallock point in my life and I'm pleasant to unpleasant right because I had to go to hospital. I pumped my stomach and that was all. Oh you didn't tell me how your family could all split up when I was six months before I was born my mother left my father my father left my mother and my mother walked the streets happen time. Where we found a place to sleep she slept. And I was born and when I got there I mean when I go into the world they don't know how I live but I live here sad story death. And asked that. I stay for a week at. The hospital. Then I went to his or her room and I was there for 14 years and all my brothers and sisters were there until Sharon left and got married. Did you get me she worked more wild when she got married. And John left. He went and into
service from the orphanage. Yes. And then Jean left and he ended up in point here. What had he done he went to live with my sister was married but he didn't go through and you know for that you know. My brother moved in like you. So you don't want to go out one night. And my sister told me was mom my sister wasn't having a brother in law used to do that all the time for fun she called and had him brought up here. I didn't have anywhere else to put him so I just think it's undertone here I really don't know the whole background of that. And then. Liz went to the hospital and she's still there not. A nurse or patient. Or patient nervous breakdown. And well works in Washington D.C. with government lawyers. So it looks as though you weren't wanted even before you're born were you. That's right I was in one what about Since then I'm through. I want to buy my
parents I don't even know where you. Don't. Know. Were they drinkers or do don't you know my dad was. He drank some but he never their trunks how much you know he was banned. Least I think so anyway. Does this make you think that all men are somewhat You probably know. How many and. Who the bad one the family or with. Including your father mother. Me. I mean some of them I've gotten which I will then the rest of them. Why use of using. I don't know. And now are you like anybody else in the family you're about one who is bad and you're like. None of them. They're all good but don't know a lot of good but there are some bad and everybody but from all of them I think I turned out to be a worse. Who's the best one. Gene in the band. And did you did you have an attack of
nerves to around the time you took these pills. Were you shaking your head here before yeah I was worried scared out with everything at one time I didn't know what to do. With your earning power. Do you still see the boy or does he come to see you and I haven't. Oh I saw him but we get that. Until I left eye steak for another month and the fourth time I saw him almost every day. And I said 16 what's going to happen to you know. I'm. In a school. And what we're going to live. In there. Yet. I myself. I have to tell you. Either that or get me. Sooner the better. I do have some prospects of getting married. I certainly do. And I'm very proud of it is. Which one you mean when you got in trouble with. Now we're going to know different had different one. You find yourself attracted to a lot of boys or just. Certain ones. When you don't cry you don't ignore any of them. No never. That's one thing I could say
I don't ignore any Borys. You kind of we got in here. That's why I do. What I ask you what what gives you most trouble about. Girls. But you like him. Oh yeah I know some of them make me nervous wreck. I got in trouble. I for one of those girls did you what did she do to you. I take to clean up the stairs out there and almost and command me off saying I have a pretty bad might prevent me from going home tomorrow. What you must have hurt your feelings. She did definitely she's been hurting him all the time. She makes nervous wreck outta me. What you do is trying to make you insult and. Aggravate me well she's been doing that all day oh you mean she always does. So I chased her up the stairs. I wouldn't go up the stairs you went to the fence in the war.
Mr. K sister told me that little band and I'm going to see a big girl like you to use your little girl like she wasn't love. She had been younger but she wants to know. Yes you have trouble with Negro people never. She's a big irritation throughout the whole department nobody really cares much but is there something wrong with her. Mentally yes. At least that's my. We have to take that into account. Yeah I did that for a month and I can't do it anymore. I prepped her again I think I'll die. I wanted her to more and I mean every word I said if I don't leave. Something for you to more I say you know I hope you do. I think it's time for you to that is yes. Is there anything out any final message No there isn't. It had been reported that Marie was married in a civil ceremony almost a year prior to this interview. This is why I asked her about it when she responded in a rather surprised way I felt it would be prudent not to pursue the point.
One question often asked of me by listeners is how do you know that these children are telling the truth. I really don't know. In point of fact I don't really care too much about the content of what the child says. I'm more interested in the child and his feelings about what he says is happening to him. I would say this however that if a child lies to me then I have not really reached him. Lies are a form of self defense in a person who doesn't dare to intrust the truth to the other party. Our next child is a 12 year old boy who ran away from home. Up to the age of 12 more boys than girls run away after the age of 12 more girls than boys run away. In Los Angeles the police located three hundred six out of the three hundred nine boys under 12 who ran away. They also turned up the 64 girls under 12 alone only 63 were reported missing. Here in Pittsburgh last
year two thousand nine hundred forty two persons were reported missing. The missing persons bureau under Captain Teresa Rocco located two thousand seven hundred sixteen of them a little more than 50 percent or under the age of 18. Raymond was one of these. It is unclear to me why Ray Raymond ran. It may be a case of too much Mother or again it may be a case of not enough boy. Here then is Raymond. What's your name again. Ray how would you rate 12. And what grade you in school. You go to prove your school or public or what private public school. You're 12 years old the fourth grade you get left down. Now back to what happened. Second I didn't get a school and. They didn't pass me. You get left out in public school and they kept it called and asked you
what were you sick with. Got a call on that and how big is your family. Just me and my sister help if you can. You're 12 and you live with your mother and dad. What. Does a mother your dad did or did you go away or what. It is separate from the mother. You remember him he left when I was about. Six months old. Oh I see. You always get one without him. How come you're here. Let's put that start with that because I missed quite a bit in school and that the kids picked on me on the move for New Years. Oh is it me they call you names. Yeah the dead hurt. Oh I don't like it. What names would they call you. Yell the nearest lover doesn't it. But. They can be pretty nasty to you if you're on the receiving end. Would that make
you angry. And I'd. Like to go and what do you do when you get angry. Or. What what don't you remember what you did when I got men that were no cried kids I think I'm me. Well sometimes when kids are mixed up themselves they pick on other kids and you were just the target here. Is there anything the matter with you. If you think you. Know. You know different or strange or odd. But you see I think kids are often do that they make fun of people. You know. I wonder why kids are so cruel. Are you. Not. You don't seem to be. Oh no. And. What do you think you like to do when you grow up you know like to make law that you know new rector said. Did you ever like to do anything with anybody else or are you like to do it well you know. But then you go myself.
And you spend a great deal of your life by yourself. You know you have. Let's put gays in it with another sentence. But your mother is about your only real playmate you know is you. You have any other relatives. Are they nice to you was to tell you. What was in their city as they never happened to you. The thing that hurt you the most. You think coming in here I was yes but you see the like it here don't you know. And the people are nice to you are to nurses intervene here. And the kids hear me cry too. Not all and not very much either you know. So really it's not better here than it it was a home or a school. Where you tell me what happened when you were little boy before you started school what happened. I used to put my neighbor next door neighbor and it was a boy or girl boy. Well he's played again in dirt. What else happened besides
playing with the boy. Was the play with him but when you were playing with him because he is placing yourself so. You never ran away now did you ever do anything that would be illegal. No you never play hooky from school. You never stole anything. Not only big things. I was going to steal. What would happen if you stole your Because I thought I'd get put in jail or something. Do you find yourself. Daydreaming a lot you know what you dream about when you daydream Nagarajan you're this or that or doing this year or what. Tell me some of those now. Imagine like a. Put machine together and all that building different things. You ever imagine you're running away. Now do you ever imagine that you're somebody else.
I just always wonder why oh why me. Do you know different. When you're you know think about your own self and. Like you're the main person you know when you think about yourself. Do you ever wish you were somebody else. You're with YOUR different family now. My grandmother better. Theirs. And what does she say about you Dad. He want to go back to him. She wouldn't know what he's doing when I was little he threw away violently because I wouldn't crawl but about four months old. And why do you think she left him. You live characters and I wouldn't call him that. My grandmother and that. They're always going to they're different they even hear one good that he want to be the boss here and that you might want to be the boss. And she does you want to be the boss now. She I guess she is now.
Pretty high from a boy to grow up without a daddy isn't here. That you never married again you know that you anywhere you want. That was all. If you can hook you know present and you present it. Well how come you went to Catholic school for a while. Well. They said I was. Prince was trying to say I was working this happened and then she tried three hours cork. So rather brought me in Catholic school. Do you smoke. Now. Right. What do you think the nicest thing you ever did. I want to play across a street run model. There is some car is going to look pretty close together and well always got hit when I pushed right past it. And what was about the worst thing you ever did. You know you're being bad. And how how do you get better when you're back. I want to listen in there. You disobedient you know. And
that your mother doesn't make you a great deal that you know what does it mean. Well. Now I get on your back and remind you to do something that you know you remind you to do. She's not there you know. And can she pretty well manage you home can she make you obey you and what's going to happen. I don't know. If. We're ever in a home or institution of Oakley just in here. Did she bring you in now. How you coming while Cheri brought me in with you then for handcuffs on me. Surely you know what that Bree our business for a little boy 12 years old can do anything bad that you know when they pick you up. Oh yeah I was up there for a while. There's air out here you know and a lot of factories and all that. Now they're like out in the country. Do you ever have any scary dreams. Yeah.
One time I dreamed about some guy monster I didn't colorize chasing me. I was running all over the place. Had you been watching television. No one costars kookie show. Was about some guy robot that I thought there you have it over here you're going to die. He took delegates here. But you don't want to die and you're for you're going to get him to have you have physical examinations and you came here. What did they find out that they said I'm rubber my wrists opened and your heart through something. I don't think you get members of your throat. I thought it was somewhere down here that I might be your bronchitis or something like that you know and I said that's all right now. And what I was worried me so I was dying to get well taken away from my mother something you would like to lose her.
Is right you know what you can think of. Are you happy. I guess I rather be alone. Yeah I can see that. They used our puppy I know he was a I forget what he was. I said is that Eskimos Patison he had to walk on his two feet Misty and up with Polly my dear to him. We had little in the you mean Fadi haven't gas to put away and I don't know what to do he said so we took him. Made a rogue out of. What else were you without your freedom you free people you know you were a dream and our people you know are they nice or bad and they're going to hurt you're going to help you you know just they're just regular people. And you kids ever tell you things that scared you.
Up when you talk about different scary movies in a row of mostly movies don't you. You know what you're going to do when you go out there and probably be a machine is different and you know when working people can work with things you know different thing that I mean even something I say Are you kind of afraid to be with people. Palmer. You're in your method you know. OK I think it's about time people to be there waiting for your OK yeah OK. You have been listening to exploring the child's world had a program in which the child speaks. Father Francis Duffy Professor of Sociology at Duquesne University has outlined the features of this world and conducted the interview with the child. This is been a production of the radio service of Duquesne University in cooperation with UK news
sociology department. Technical director Frederick Williams program director and our older man. Listen again next week for another in the series exploring the child's world. This program was distributed by national educational radio. This is the national educational radio network.
Exploring the child's world IV
Producing Organization
WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
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University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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This program focuses on children with chaotic family situations.
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Interviews with delinquent and disturbed young people who are encouraged to discuss their experiences and express feelings. To protect individuals, each program is a re-creation of an actual interview using different names and places.
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Producing Organization: WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
Speaker: Duffy, Francis
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University of Maryland
Identifier: 66-26-5 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
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Duration: 00:29:36
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Chicago: “Exploring the child's world IV; Marie,” 1966-07-07, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed November 28, 2023,
MLA: “Exploring the child's world IV; Marie.” 1966-07-07. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. November 28, 2023. <>.
APA: Exploring the child's world IV; Marie. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from