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I. Was. Exploring the child's world. Was the child his father to the man as we hope for a world of men of good will. We must look to the conditions of the child's world to achieve it. So we search for the laws ways and means the sources of the capable spontaneously whole adult. It is not
strange that the world of the disturbed child throws light on childhood in general. Also Father Francis Duffy chairman of the Department of Sociology at Duquesne University was not at first looking for this light when he started working with the disturbed child. He found however that it is not that the disturbed a delinquent child is completely removed from society rather that his position is more extreme. And so its obviousness offers us a sharper clearer insight into the world of children to share the fruit of his research funded duffing into Cain university present a series of recorded interviews with delinquent children followed by a short discussion in which the child and his problems are explored for insight. Here is Father Duffy to preview the problems of this child who speaks in exploring the child's world. Father Duffy. In the final interview we meet with and discuss the problems of Carmen a
17 year old white Catholic boy who was involved in the car theft although he didn't take the car. He drinks and he has been involved in gang activities. Apparently he has seen some things that made him somewhat careful and cautious and a little bit apprehensive about any further gang activities. He has been threatened by the gang and the basis for this was his quitting them. When his mother went to the hospital the boy voluntarily committed himself for protection to the juvenile court detention home. And as I look at him he reminds me of a kind of wild boar that we have seen in Africa. It's an animal with pretty formidable tusks. If you chase him he'll run to his hole in the ground and then he turns around banks in this way. He exposes the. Tusks to anybody who has bad designs on him. Carmen is the kind of boy who looks on life with tusks forward in a
sense he's very protective of himself and very defensive. He doesn't want things to happen to his little brother that have happened to him. And he says that if the brother gets involved like this Carmen is going to beat the daylights out of him. We did point out to him that nobody beat the daylights out of him when he did exactly the same thing. Let's listen to this rather surly and pretty uncommunicative 17 year old boy as once again we further explore the child's world. How old are you Carmen. Seventeen. And you told me that you came in by yourself. Yeah that's right. Why did you commit would you like to tell me. My mom had to go to the hospital I figured she might get out. She might have thought I might get in some trouble or something. So I come down here and I talk to on the phone she mentioned to me that somebody was bothering you so kids what did they do.
I could love them with them and they were going to get even with you for this. Yeah. What do you think they might have done what were they going to do. Just me I guess they're all in jail now can't bug me. What was the charge against him do you know. Drinking and stuff like that. And anybody left up there any more. But you had been there buddies at one time. Yeah I quit drinking. I ain't touching that stuff again. You had been drinking. I drank Yeah. Was it regular and heavy. No. I wonder why your mother would be concerned about you. What do you mean. Well she was worried enough to call me on the phone from the hospital when I'm in here. You know I don't know. Were you ever here before Carmen. Yeah. And what was it the last
time. Okey the time before that stole a car. I was involved in a stolen car and had you been driving you know. Can't even drive a bicycle yet. What about the time before that. That's it just the two times and this time you came in by yourself. So but since you did to me on your own why are you so anxious to get out now. Oh my mom she's out of the hospital now I see. I just want to stay home before I go to the army. I don't know 11 date. I don't want to spend of it here. You'll be 18 in 11 days 17. You think your mother will sign for you. She said yeah I see. Still I don't want to live with them guys. Why would you give them up at this time.
I had enough of this place. But it wasn't because of those boys that you loath with that you came here you came here by yourself brought yourself down. Yeah you just didn't have any place to go with your mother in hospital is that it. If I had a place to go just felt like staying out of trouble till she gets out that's all. And you think you would have gotten into trouble if you had remained at home with your mother in the hospital and I don't know I just don't want to look with them guys no more did they come after you. Did they threaten you in any way. Not one time I jumped and threw up against the wall. That's all. Then I broke loose. They're in jail every one of them and was always during the last couple days before you came in here. They've been bothering me then they haven't. How do you do in school. Even what has had me
pay attention. You do the work. Yeah do the teachers holler at you give you a hard time. One time a couple of times that's all for chewing gum or something I said. And what's the situation at home. You didn't mention your father so far. Doesn't he run the house when your mother is away sick. He's he separated my mother. Don't know where he is. She's married again. Oh your marriage or your mother's marriage or some other man not your father. Yeah. And I take it he lives with you then. Is he nice to you. Your stepfather. Yeah. But you felt you'd be better off here. Did he agree with the idea. Who used to fight. I doubt it. He would just stay home there with him. Guess so. So does my other dad. How many children are there in the family.
One's married and I got one. Two little brothers now. My sister and my other brother here that's why I want to go to the service. So my little brother don't get into any of this trouble. You're very good with you around your brothers might follow in your footsteps. Yeah if I ever catch them here I'll break their neck. But you were here twice. Yeah and nobody has broken your neck so far. Do you think that that part of the upset in your life is due to the fact that you're not living with your brother mother and father you're really living with your mother and a strange stepfather now. What do you mean. Well this upset that's bothering you. I don't get you. What kind of trouble are you in that you're not at home right now you're not in school like other boys you're not working. I quit school. Oh you weren't going to school. No we're working down some
store. Well if you were doing well in school if you liked it and they liked you and you wouldn't quit. Yeah I guess that's right. And it is your mind now to join the army. Yeah. I'm going straight in there. And do you have any complaints about your home parents. Your mother is all right with you. Yeah they're all right. Your stepfather. Yeah and the children. How old are they. My little brother's too. Then there's the new one. My brother is 10 11 My sister is about 8 or 9 and you're 16 really. So when you think of it then there are really three groups of children there. Yeah so you know in a way you were the only child. There's this little tiny one and he's got some companions and there's the older one
gets married and then there are two that are close in age range to each other. Who is the bad one. Maybe my brother Donny and two you had the bad ones. He ain't bad. I mean he acts Oh he's OK. What are some of the things that he does that make him one of the bad ones. You know this was them other guys. I tried to get him away from them. You got away from the bad ones and you left with the same way he goes with them kids. Different ones and I know what they're like and they mess around up the street and I try to get him out of it. And do you stay out of the two. I'm out of it now. Yeah but I'm going to stay out of it and these boys that you want to protect them from and the ones that you go with they play pretty rough. Yeah I guess so what do they do. Who me. The boys at the U-Stop loathing with steal cars
drink stuff like that. So at this time you really don't have any friends. Not them guys. And who took their place. You have some new ones. Yeah better better ones. Just a couple of kids. They've got no records now I see. I do feel pretty nervous and tense and I'm a peer Yeah. But before you came in did you feel pretty nervous going was going alright. Wasn't anything else that you want to talk about. Ok I'll check back with your mother and then I'll see you in a couple days that the art will go right. And now joining from Gadhafi to discuss the features of this child's world is his guest Professor Chester Ager's arc of the sociology department. And you came university here our father Dr. Young Professor Jerzy back.
I like to ask you about the impressions you have of this overall picture of this whole thing. We've been through now in these 13 weeks. Yes it's probably very difficult to summarize in a short time but I think what we've been trying to do in our last 12 programs and the 13 today is that we can try to seek out what are the possible causes we've whelped on causes rather than on treatment of the causes and let me suggest possibly a way of summarizing these Friday of causes by saying that maybe one area of causes seems to be related to something called socialization. By this term we we mean or symbolize that human beings need to undergo certain
training to acquire social and cultural characteristics were not born with them. We're born with certain things but we're not born with the social and cultural practices which we get by living in our home living our neighborhood going to school. Going to church and so on so maybe one area generally that could be regarded as this if the socializing agencies the home the school the church the community the recreation setup malfunction then we will see an increase of misbehavior among youngsters who are undergoing the process of becoming social and cultural persons. It's a process by which one goes from being an individual to being a person. It seems to me a person is an individual with the ability to
interact with others to form groups. To function well and so on. The other summary statement I think we can make since I think we've emphasized this throughout our programs is that systems of norms that operate in a given society and the agencies which are committed to enforce these are important in whether our youth behave or misbehave by system of norms we mean the rules and regulations and the ways by which these things are in Coke aided in bred into our youngsters by agencies which enforce them I mean that all of the enforcement officials whether it's the police the judge the courts the jails the behavior in jails the behavior of officials themselves in other words I think youngsters are quick
to react to the fact that if people are supposed to enforce things whether it's their parents or whether it's the police do not or misbehave themselves then they do not see the logic of why should they. Behaviors. And the third is and I think we we've got to pay attention to this the personality factors as specially maybe those kind of factors that exist in us. Before socialization or let's say before school at least. So I would say maybe a third area would be that if a child has strong pre-social or let's call it a social drives and if his parents or teachers are not aware of this and this is not channeled and dealt with in the right way. This may later react and show up as as misbehavior. Now maybe we might want to
go and make some comments first on the socializing agencies that malfunction may be whether you would want to again summarize for our listeners. Maybe some of the things that we may have said about the home and school and community and church ideas and maybe we can go back to the other two general areas. Or maybe you have another. Well they are looking at this because I'm sure there are different possibilities of looking at this. Well as long as we've started in this way I think it is a good handy generalizing framework for considering this particular basic and desperate problem we're facing throughout the entire country. I think the socializing agencies as I see in their job is to take a child who is not formed socially and to make him disappear in a group as we know. There are varying degrees of expectations and
permissiveness I guess in the home he may be permitted to get away with a lot of things which you would get away with at school. At school you may be permitted to get away with a lot of things that you wouldn't get away with in the ballpark and the ballpark you might get away with a lot of things that you wouldn't get along. I get away with I will say in a theater. So that person has to be given a bit of versatility in the sense that if you don't put any expectations on him don't put any norms or any rules you are ill equipped equipping him to get along will say when it comes time to go to the army if he's used to having his own way all the time and in the Army he almost never gets his own way. Then he will stand out immediately from the group with which he associate the same with school and I think the same with church and the neighborhood community and their recreational agencies. Does it appear to you that in United States we over stress certain values I was thinking that possibly we
play up such things as material and money success. You know conspicuous display you know having a car using drafts and this not that we overstressed status. We over stress the idea of success. We over stress I think when psychology do you think that this has something to do also what our youngsters. Misbehaving I wonder why a youngster steals a car for example. You know I wonder whether there are certain overstressed on certain values you see that that already made the youngster makes a youngster think of this possibility who has other weaknesses but that this adds to his weakness. You notice a young children for example. I think they revolt against some of the stresses and some of the directions to which we assign values. We emphasize the child getting good grades. There's very little emphasis on the child learning anything. We have to size it get good grades now we don't care exactly how you get them.
We do care actually but the child feels that this puts him in a bind and he has to get good grades. And if he has to cheat to do so well it's only a temporary thing and pretty soon the necessity for cheating in this way will be passed and he'll give it up. But I wonder if the child doesn't revolt against this as he revolts against other values. You and I are at an age where we use a car when we use one we use it for it where it's always destination oriented. If I go out in the car I'm going somewhere I have a destination if I have no destination I'll go but a child it seems to me his emphasis is on the going and not on the arrival or not on the destination. So this is quite a different value than I have. If you are only interested in destination this makes you a square with a child who has de-emphasized a destination and overemphasize the speed. I wonder if we we may comment on one other thing and that this business of strong pre-social a social drives I think manifest themselves in sort of catarrh character difficulties like
my child will steal very early to live very early fight very early. I wonder again from your. Views whether Actually we couldn't have a kind of predictive thing in this thing that we could prevent a lot of the delinquency if parents and maybe people in nursery schools and playgrounds could observe children who fight very early who were vicious who lie and so on. And whether they could redirect them to their parents to two agencies to their church and so on whether they could be rescued because these to me delinquency doesn't begin it at 16 and it probably begins at two and three and develops doesn't it. From your observations I think it does and I think also the child can be picked up very early in fact if we were to go back and listen to these tapes again and cull out the things that the children complain about I think it would give us a great insight because these are the operators in this particular vehicle. They complained for example nobody
listens to them. All right they are going to keep hammering until somebody does listen and you can get somebody listen by firing a gun off or by causing an explosion or by going past him very rapidly in a car he will listen then or he'll look. And he will notice we have now come to the end of our program to which we have invited the listeners to listen to children disturbed and delinquent. We have presented a whole variety of ideas and aspects and thoughts that can stir further thoughts. I realize that we have made many generalizations. We have not done this without knowing it we have known it. I feel that this is a brave position however in the sense of generalisations we made they can be corrected by somebody else. We simply give a sense of direction and a taste for the subject. A point and a little bit of incentive to complete this summarization of the ideas aspect thoughts and generalizations developed during a series of exploring the child's world. We have invited David
Owens governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to share with us his evaluation of the merits of this research project and his ideas developed in many years of intense sustained productive and effective efforts on behalf of the misunderstood unguided and underprivileged children. Here then speaking from his suite in the state office building is the governor of Pennsylvania David L. Lawrence. People in public office are constantly confronted with problems and decisions that involve two things. The needs of the people and the resources available to meet these needs is always a difficult job to reappraise the value system under which we operate. Most of us tend to overestimate our needs and to underestimate our resources. There used to be a poster in the Washington bus terminal which read you can do more than you think you can you haven't done as much as you think you
did in estimating our needs we sometimes double our demand in estimating our resources we tend to pare down our assets. Yet we know that the surplus of some or rather of all who have surplus is the only source of supply that can be used to maintain and support those who cannot support themselves. We must give a great deal of consideration to our value system a great deal more of conscious attention. And if the child is the father of the man we must give a great deal more conscious attention to our children than we have given up to now. You don't teach a child's self sacrifice by paying him for every chore he does around the house. This just teaches him that you don't do anything for anybody unless you get paid for it. We can teach him a great deal more than we are teaching him about what his responsibilities are to
god parents and fellow man. We do not have to emphasize teaching him his rights. He will discover these for himself. I don't mean that we should start to preach to children who are not them. This simply makes them ignore rebel are right. The child learns from the demands made of him in the home and from the rewards and punishments it gets there. Certainly both reward and punishment are part of any training program. I cannot tell you how to teach. Each one has to work out its own way. This means that parents will have to spend a little more time with their children than they do today. Parents have to be more vital in the home. Teachers have to be more vital in the school clergyman have to be more vital in the church. If we hope to fulfill the needs of our children this program has pointed out some of the needs which all of our childrens feel.
It is also pointed out in the words of the children themselves how they feel we adults have failed them at least in part. The needs of children may be complex but they are visible. They need affection warmth understanding and kindness. They also need to have limits set for them much the same way that Clay needs a model until it is sure enough and firm enough and sad enough to get along with out the MO limits do not remove independence. They simply define it. Children have to be helped to grow in areas of responsibility loyalty and devotion to duty. They have to learn to postpone current urgent and demanding satisfactions for the sake of better ones in the future. They have to be taught that man is social. This means that all men are interdependent. The surplus of some meat and satisfy the needs of our children
can be helped to see that as they grow they take on responsibilities to their families their neighbors their friends the people of the state and the nation and the world. They can learn cooperation in the process of cooperation. All succeed or all fail. I am happy to be able to encourage research of this kind into the dynamics of juvenile delinquency. I am impressed by the findings that seem to show that delinquent children are not a different brand of human being. For the most part they are children with weak inhibitions with strong individual district are anti-social drives with poor social ties they have had poor parents all and adult model stuff up. They have had bad experience in all of this there still remains hope for all of these are reversible. They are subject to modification. We may look experimentally to an improvement in our informal education system. That is the one in which the
teachers are the nation's parents associates reading materials television radio motion pictures advertising and public opinion. As we come to the end of our exploration of the child's world I would like to thank Governor Lawrence and those who have helped to make the program possible. Among these I would like to cite again Professor Jerzy ranks outstanding analysis of the direction of Professor doom a technical direction of Fred McWilliams and the cooperation of Judge Bennett Rogers. Mr. Boyd McDevitt chief probation officer and the staff of the juvenile court of Allegheny County and lastly I'd like to thank the children because they have helped us to help them help themselves. You have been listening to exploring the child's world. A program in which the child speaks Father Francis Duffy chairman of the sociology department at Duquesne University has conducted the interview with the child and has defined the
outlines of this word in the discussion with his guest Professor Chester agers act. Also the Department of Sociology at Duquesne special guest on this program was David L. Lawrence governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And. This has been a production of various services for some. Technical direction by Fred McWilliams here and elsewhere has been. With the interview heard on this program was a recreation exploring the child's world is distributed by the National Association of educational
Exploring the child's world
Bad companions
Producing Organization
Duquesne University
WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
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University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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This program focuses on how the negative influence of other children can lead to a child's delinquency.
Interviews with delinquent and disturbed young people who are encouraged to discuss their experiences and express feelings. To protect individuals, each program is a re-creation of an actual interview using different names and places.
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Interviewee: Jerzak, Chester A.
Producing Organization: Duquesne University
Producing Organization: WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
Speaker: Duffy, Francis
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 62-27-13 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:36
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Chicago: “Exploring the child's world; Bad companions,” 1962-08-31, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed April 12, 2021,
MLA: “Exploring the child's world; Bad companions.” 1962-08-31. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. April 12, 2021. <>.
APA: Exploring the child's world; Bad companions. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from