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This program was produced and recorded at the University of British Columbia Canada under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters. The broader in question the 8 of 10 programs examining Canadian American relations this programme entitled No truck nor trade. Or is just reading by the paper change. Fifty thousand Canadians are going to the United States every year without a weapon like that. My day I back in 1911 the cry was no crack nor trade with the Yankees. By golly we really meant it. Correct trade with the Yank. They just a few years before that I can remember my paw sipping on the pork with a loaded rifle in case the Yankees come across the border.
No truck or trade with the Yankees. GO know what cap and don't seem people care anymore. Fifty thousand Canadian Jiyu gone over to the United States. You know things haven't always been so damned rosy between the United States and Canada that the longest undefended borders only undefended because the Yanks know they can get whatever they want from Canada without fighting 50000 Canadians a year going to the United States and I ad like to know what goes on in the minds of the young people these days. Golly I'd like to get them all together with some experts sort of talk things over at a cocktail party that's what they all seem to be interested in these days. See what I have at a cocktail party. Yeah think about that for a while. I do have a university president. Yeah.
And some immigrants and a foreign journalist. And I'd have a good Canadian socialist and no story I'm a student and a housewife. Of course I think I get an American in there too. Good old duffer like me you never get such a gathering together. I just think about that for a while. Housewife socialist university president all getting together and talking. No truck or trade with the Yankees. I'm. Here between you and Canada. I'd like to go way back. We might go back before 1812. Well no. This is quite a tall order. To a.
Person. With hope an opportunity to review our Canadian. But. My memories. Are cooler you. Think. It over. Hundred and fifty years. From the. Capture of. Dawn to the Confederation. Of the. Critical points. Of the issue between. What was then British North America. And later Canada. And the United States. Were concerned with. Matters of. Boundary. Disputes. And fishery disputes.
However. I don't. Know that in terms of present day. Problems either of these. Give as much Guy and. As to the attitude to. Take in the policies to. Follow. In dealing with the current situation. Except it's to indicate that apart from. The. Breakdown. In relationships. Which occurred between 19 between 18 12 and 18 14. In with. Kim in the north the war. Of 1812. We have managed to. Arrive at. Some kind of a solution and settled. There. It
has meant we have been able to preserve peaceful relationships with our neighbors to the some amount of good will. A modus vivendi is all reeds. Operate a word or term in the sense that we see a situation in which things go on in a provisional sort of way. I'd like to think that there was really more than a modus vivendi. Given. The. Nature of our relationships with the US. Incidentally I think having made reference to the War of 1812 I should. Point out that this was not essentially a Canadian. American issue. But an issue involving. Brit and her world. The position. Is of the.
To pull you in. Europe. And the world generally which the United States the former colonies were involved rather than Canada but Canada did become a national name. All well they were invaded by the US troops and the British and Canadian US resisted those in Beijing as a natural. Need you guys were emotionally involved. Next go back to the original dispute of boundaries. What were the first recorded boundary disputes between US and Canada. Where you have the main Bondra disputes and you have the Oregon boundary disputes were hanging or verse the following of the American War of Independence. It's the sense that the boundaries were never clearly marked. Following.
The peace treaties that ended it. And did it because of that it became necessary in due course as the country each developed. It is the. People. The population's increased. Terror which became settled. Could you describe the main boundary dispute before we go on to the Oregon dispute. Well that this had to do with the. Question as to whether the. Boundary was a way to work. It is the Americans the Americans claimed a goodly part. Of Western New Brunswick. And northern New Brunswick the. River St. John's Valley. And. Parts in the Madawaska.
Pedia area in the. North. Think it's meant to last but. What was the basis of the American dream. What it was based again in terms of the. River courses and the play and. The. Watersheds and all maps and things of this kind. As you know the British took over from. The French choose. This area and for a brief time. It was all. Brick in there with the American war of. Independence the American colonies. Of. The fought the war against Britain. But. Parts of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. And they did not join the. American. Cause. Please he remained separate and it was the question of determining.
The Bungie lines between these. But you country the United States military. On the other side. The Canadians more properly the British had a counter. Which would have put a boundary somewhere and may train. How was it decided. Well this again was on the basis of the old maps there and on the. Character use that were part of what had been a key year or the year. And. In the. Occupied control. By the French. The decision was is the key see in these decisions. A compromise. The British didn't get. Canada didn't get. What we had asked. Excuse me Dr. McKenzie I would like to ask about another important dispute the Oregon Burnley dispute I believe that some Canadian historians are stock
critical of the British on this. They say the Columbia River should have been the boundary. Well that the already. Disputed. Bush was. Eight years. Interest. In. Particular only two. People who now. Live in British Columbia and the West Coast states. All this territory. Of interest to the. Fur traders. In particular. In the North West Palm Beach. And the Hudson Bay Company and the. Sole. World competing here he has. Bugs and Bay Company settlement or. Posts. And Columbia River. Good reason is that the time. For feeling that the boundary might've been the color again was a case of possession being nine points of the
law. The American settlers had moved in. In large numbers. Over seas and by sleep include occupied. Territory. In the British each one to excite. Above these wild claims. The. WESTERN. Shores of the Pacific. And there were no Canadians as such. The time and certainly very few if any of them. This part of the world. So that. The pressures. Exerted by the Americans on the spot really determine. The location. I think. That's I remember the St. Lawrence the Great Lakes. Provided. The bottom Greek. Is.
Yet laid. Him at the bridge and from there on the forty ninth parallel. On the other hand there were some. Arguments. On either side. About where the boundary should be. Confusion as to the names of rivers and the sources Rivers beachhead gone in favor of. Candidate. Would have. Brought. Most of the great iron ore deposits. The Great Lakes area which the United States industry has been so dependent under Canadian sovereignty and. Control. Could you outline the first dispute between US and Canada involving fishing rates back again into the early history. Glenn became part of. The British Empire.
The Treaty of Utrecht in 1713 I think it was. And the French retained a certain. Fishing rights on what's called the French shore. And the islands of sand here and nickel on the return and Oakland. Has French Greek and bases for their fishing operations off the Grand Banks for Glee. Now the American interests and claims to these fisheries grow out of the fact that at the time. They were British and after the American. War of Independence. They maintain their claim. For. What had been their rights as British colonists in these fish. They were a major source
of friction and of disputes between the United States and Britain and the United States and Canada. And they were. Finally settled if they were settled they. Unpeel the whole business was submitted to the permanent court of arbitration that they be back in the early 90s. This leaves. The fisheries are still in dispute as you know. And probably will be. Partly because naturally we want to take too. Much here as many of the fish as possible. So does the United States Japan would like to get in on it understandably. Rushes off there on the. Horizon. May be affected. This brings us up to the Alaska boundary disputes. Well again you have a situation. Where. Sure.
The Russians. Played a role. Because they had to. Occupy. The. More. Parts of Alaska. And. Had title shot. And and then determine an area. Down the coast. I believe that soo. True that one home they got to splurge on their. Ships and sailors explorers down as San Francisco. But in any event. The United States of America. What. Interests. The Russian him. In. North America. And. Who that purchase they acquired Alaska. And such other
land. As the Russians in your. Older clade. Now. Alaska itself. There was no particular difficulty or dispute. Save for the Panhandle area. The question is how far down. The pain. Came and how much how why this trip was included in it. There was something in the. Barrios. Papers official documents of. Interested countries Britain and Russia and. The United States. To the effect. That. The height of lay. Was the. Line of demarcation. Between the Russian claims and the claims of.
Nile. As in the Labrador. Dispute. Might have been a narrow strip of. Land along with coal. Which would have given. Canada. Access to the sea because the headwaters of a lot of these feel. A little bit in. The. END. By. Which they cited this. System. So I remembered of. American. Americans Canadians and British. Pound against the Canadian claim it was in the ME. With the result panhandles I say shut up. Large areas of. Northern British Columbia. The whole of the UK. From the sea.
So. Why should anybody else feel bothered by this decision. Well they. Feel bothered. Because it is claimed that. The US. Members of arbitration. And stated in advance I'll. Be. Sitting as a tribunal and giving the decision. What they were going to get and that there was no all rules were barred. Well from the Canadian point where. It was. Rather bad luck for us and certainly it's not the. Attitude. One expects all. Impartial arbiter. The other thing is that the maid gives him. The. Booty. Represent.
Let them let them on their side. By not holding up more strongly against the Americans. Playing. In the game if we are as the media claimed. That. Because. This was a wilderness area. And a. Long long way from Britain to London. The British were glad to get a reasonable settlement on that particularly in terms of their position and policies in other parts of the world. You see these disputes were for Brit. Part of the world. Policy and part of the. World problem with the situation arose for us in Canada where they were. National and local. Was inevitable. Already. Toward the would be somewhat different. What are some of the other disputes sense where you have that you have the continuing. To. Build such
claims in respect of the diversion of water out of the Great Lakes to. Chicago. Sewage and ship and. Hit the. Difficulties in arriving at. A solution of the Project for the. Building that the switchboards. Deep sea. Waterway. That powered by them. But by and large. The Bunbury Waters Treaty and international joint commission. Has been there at the tables. We. Could be reasonable. And set. On their American Activities Committee and her some feeling in Canada. Or. The United States. Committees were
exceeding their. Proper. Areas of jurisdiction. In the. Impute motives and actions to make a meet and again the union official position. Yes. It was felt by good for the comedian says it was none of their best. And. Certainly. Quite a few pretty good to say. That it was their business. And. Their right to sit in judgment. On the actions and behavior of a Canadian. Citizen and particularly one. High ranking official. In the diplomatic. Service. Of care. If. There were. Any. Questions about. Personal issues
then they should have been dealt with by Ken. Please. What thread there hasn't been to Canada from the US. The turn of the century. It's little hard to say if there was a real threat. Before the turn of the century certainly since 1859 even a piece of the United States. But there have been occasions. Certainly in the 1830s and early 40s and certainly right after the American Civil War when the United States as you possibly know. Had the largest army in the world. Mobilized and it was in the aftermath of the Civil War pretty hostile to Great Britain at that time. There was a great threat. Of. A. Possible invasion certainly of. Pressure. Put on account. By the United States. Written by the United States rather since count it was not independent until the 1867. Indeed it was one of the the this threat was one of the. Factors in speeding up. The.
Drawing together of the four provinces of the Federation and its intercept. Toward the end of the century. There were controversies but they never amount to. Really truly a. Threat of actual physical invasion. That. There were controversies of the fisheries on both. The. Oceans. And. The controversies. Over. The. Use of international waterways and so on. What about to people look at your pride. You know this is this is the 1844 election. The 1844 lead and remember the what's. What a party says in an election. Shouldn't necessarily hold for. The policy. Of a country. President. Supporters or. Governor. As the NRA's supporters. Put up this crisis 2 4 4 here fight in order to show the poems the way it was where mere tools of the British. TIME WHEN. Controversy. With the
British was apparent both. In the on the hard question. Pertaining to this coast and. Army. Texas. And. California questions. In the mission to the next. Great Britain in both these areas that apparently. From. The point of view of many American chauvinists apparently interfered and interfered wrong. What has made the United States perhaps more liberal towards a kind of movement toward Mexico. Probably first of all that it's a lot easier to beat up Mexico than it is to beat up Great Britain. The risk of war are. In. With Great Britain in the 1840s was a serious one something to be seriously considered. The risk of a war with Mexico was not something to be considered seriously. As it turned out. Indeed the war with Mexico was an expensive and difficult operation for the United States would have been much more difficult so the very small forces of the United States to take on a great power such as Great Britain. And eat her. Economic bread replacing the critical thing.
In point of fact. Canada is an economic problem to the United States and has become. Become so very largely since 1945. The fact that we are is in some respects our good fortune. In that we enjoy a much higher standard of living. Than we could on our own efforts. Simply. That. It's alarming. If you feel that. Great Britain. Or other that Canada should be. Independent. Independent in every way. It's alarming. But there's not a great deal that can be done about it at least in the short term. If Canadians are prepared to tighten their belts. If they're prepared to undergo a sturdy of this sort. Say Great Britain underwent in the. Decade after the Second World War and if they're prepared to undergo that is Turkey not for a decade but perhaps for six or seven decades. It might possibly happen. But ultimately. Canada could
achieve some measure of economic independence. Then again it might not work. You take a pessimistic view. Pessimistic in the sense that it is possible yes. But I'm thinking particularly pessimistic view of the fact that we are an economic satellite. Does the United States. The alternative. To being an economic satellite of the United States has to be very much poorer countries. We are. And I haven't heard. Canadians rallying to the proposition. That they should lower their standard of living. To that as. Say. A second rate. Or third rate European. Socialist Mr. McDONALD. What do you consider to be the greatest threat to control of labor or of industry. Well I think the control of industry is far far more significant control them control. Canadian unions from their international offices which in many cases are red states.
But. With. What I think is an awakening Canadian nationalism I feel sure that the. International control and the trade union field is going to be attenuated in the next few years. And we can see what would you consider to be the greatest threat to connect and sovereign U.S. control of every control of industry all the wealth of propaganda which emanates from the United States. I put first what you describe because up again. I don't. Think they're using. It. In your. Description. Air should be nice to get a lot of experts together somehow
don't really matter how you get them together as long as you get them together and talk this thing out. But never happen. The brother in question this program was produced and recorded at the University of British Columbia Canada under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters script narration by William McCarthy production Doug Eisman. This is d n a e b Radio Network.
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The border in question
No truck nor trade
Producing Organization
University of British Columbia
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
This program focuses on this history of resentment, as well as changing attitudes, in Canada toward the United States.
Series Description
Documentary series on U.S.-Canadian relations, from a Canadian point of view.
Broadcast Date
Global Affairs
Media type
Narrator: Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra.
Producing Organization: University of British Columbia
Writer: McCarthy, William
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 61-57-8 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:52
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Chicago: “The border in question; No truck nor trade,” 1961-12-20, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed April 25, 2024,
MLA: “The border in question; No truck nor trade.” 1961-12-20. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. April 25, 2024. <>.
APA: The border in question; No truck nor trade. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from