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He had to have the whole of that too. And it lends from that we have a column with its epitaph declares them at it. There is in shrines in every breast that notable inscription that is written in the hearts of men. When Greek meets Greek a study in values a programme in the series ways of mankind presented under the supervision of Walter Goldschmidt of the University of California Los Angeles by the National Association of educational broadcasters a series designed to show how human beings live together in different times and places. A study in values. When Greek meets Greek.
This city between the barren hills and the sea is Athens. Twenty five hundred years ago. And this is its most beautiful suburb where those who died for the city are buried with public audience. On the platform beside the supple her stands directly. He is the leader of the city of Athens in the war which has just begun between Athens and her great rival city Sparta. Tara Klees is now speaking the funeral oration over the Athenian dad of the first year of the war. These take as your model and judging happens to be the fruits of freedom and freedom and that I never have to climb the day. But it is not the miserable most just and sparing of their lives. These have no hope. The speaker is pointing out the virtues of the Patriots and telling the Athenians to follow in their footsteps. He has reminded the people of the traditional values of Athens liberal thoughts and sumptuous and delicate taste in art philosophy and living and the things that
symbolize these values dying for their country spending their money wisely on beautiful things and taking a vigorous part in public affairs. That is are symbolized by specific honors and achievements. Now here is SPARTA Sparta has her values too. And to this day we call him Spartan. But there is no speech for her dead. Instead there are funeral games at the tombs of Spartan heroes. The Spartan values for pagan virtues prudence justice temperance and fortitude but they also rounded and encompassed by obedience Sparta is a city of soldiers and the highest mark of Spartan approval is election to a military large or fraternity.
This is the house of an Athenian gentlemen. The torches are lit and the brilliant painted statues gleam in their light. Slaves are running about with wine and food. The master of the house smiles and receives his friend. Tonight his wife has borne him a son that son will sponsor a performance of a tragedy at the very next festival so that the public may see how much I appreciate this honor from the gods this city he will have to govern will be a far greater place than this. Think he'll grow up to govern a city. Obviously since he's chosen his father so wisely. You know I've a good mind to let him start in public life tonight called one of the girls slaves he will be brought out to show and my friend he will make a speech in front of this audience. Make a speech wager he'll definitely with his eloquence. No takers. But seriously leave a child in the dating Fleet he's my son. I wish to show him to my friends of course Americans will not prevent a father ordering his son as
he sees fit. Actually it is a free city. Yeah I'm a free man and so is my son. We will do as we please my son and I. My master. Yes go into the inner room and bring out my son. Yes must go and see the child's not twelve hours old yet not six hours there is sleep rather than come forth and hear the applause and approval of his fellow citizens. Where is it. Master your wife begs you to let him lie on his cruiser. She begs you to remember he is very time my wife begs me his father to remember things about my own important woman. This is female emancipation for. Good one I must apologize for my wife. She behaves as if the child were as much as mine. She must have forgotten that the finest woman is the one who is least talked about among the men whether for good or bad. Look here comes
the slave with my son in her arms. Gentlemen may I present some of this gentleman my son. Oh my boy. What do you say to that. I know he sings like a nightingale. You have a fine voice frames with double his fists. You'll be a boxer and take the wreath at the Olympic Games. I see you win the foot race and of course with a child so young you know you can see it's already not a day old and I expect you can hardly walk it let alone run. But my brother was one of the greatest runners of her. I'll give him the best of all he would be a great man and a great Athenian. He'll travel to all civilized cities. How do you know. Because he's clever he will grow up to combine daring and deliberation when he ascends the speaker's
platform the whole assembly will be silent. And when he steps down again he will be saluted by a roar of approval. Like the funders of the wine dark sea as everybody how does to vote to approve when he grows up. The boys should be told how the notable citizens patrons of the arts lovers of beauty lovers of philosophy and man of affairs gathered around his cradle. And gentle. He should be taught to honor your name and to follow in your footsteps. The Athenian boy was born to be liberal and patriotic and a man of affairs expert at persuading other people to his view. At his birth he was surrounded by a notable citizen whose note ability came from these very same values and who naturally trained him to imitate them so.
That same night as a Spartan boy was born. And this bare building is a spotless house in his plane to make the Spartan father sits beside him sits the mother pale but composed they to have slaves. But there is no banquet. They are waiting for the elder of the tribe into which the boy has been born. I think I hear his footstep now. Shall I light a torch. You could walk in the dark and avoid vanity. Did you bath a child yes. Yes. Strong child bathed in wine grew stronger. Week days the better for everybody. Master. A word with you. Speak. The elder is at the gate. Then being over sent. Yes my son I found waiting hard and do not show. Remember the child does not belong to the parents but to the city. Here comes the edit. Greetings and welcome greetings greetings. The child has been born in this
house a boy. We are here to inspect it Father city the slave is fetching it if the jabs seem strong you will bring it up and it will be allotted forty except keep one of the nine thousand shares into which the city is divided. If it is not strong it will be removed from you now taken to the Hill of tight gauges and cast down into the ravine of the Apapa to bring up a weak master the child is here. Here is my baby. Examine him and tell us if you used to live or die. Lay him on the stone slab. These limbs seem strong and well-shaped large in Vegas but his lungs seem weak. He does not cry because he is brave. Perhaps this is your fourth son. Yes. Are you rich father or did you invite some admirable citizen to raise your child from this plot of good ground your wife. Not for the child.
I did so for my second son but he was killed at the age of seven in a sword fight. I hope you're proud of your son who's made them if they do something to make me proud. They are learning the BDM but none has been elected to a military dodge nor have they been given a chance to defend the city whose roles they are strong. Bring them up to be a boy whom the city will be proud to take. Spartan was only taught just enough reading and writing to obey orders. The rest of his education was aimed toward making him and your pain and conquer in battle when he was seven years old he was enrolled in a military company with other little boys. His hair was kept close clipped and he ran about naked if possible even in winter. He was given very little food so that he was forced to try and steal his dinner. This was to make him energetic and self-reliant. But to make sure the stealing was not just a formality he was severely whipped. If anyone should happen to catch him at it.
Hell they are silent. Well I only understand not to talk I'm happy with her. Mother. I was badly what. What had you done to be whipped. Caught me stealing bread. Disgraceful and I'm so hungry I have to do you of course you have to steal you. But how dare you let yourself get caught. Who would ever want you in the military lodge if you think you will grow up to be a brave and cunning soldier. If you even get caught stealing bread and then come running to your mother about it why do you hurt me. Look at the blood. Nobody can hurt a soldier. Did you tell him you had stolen. Yes you should have died rather than admit it. Do you think the heroes who founded Sparta would have admitted stealing. You should have lied to them. Listen. Many years ago a boy like you stole something he stole a fox. And just as he was getting away with the animal hidden under his coat. The owner came out and began to speak to him not suspecting anything. Do you know what the boy did.
No mother rather than let it be known. He stood and talked without showing a sign and allowed the fox to tear out his bowels with its teeth and claws so that suddenly he fell dead on the spot. Was this right. That was right. Then remember it being like the boy with the Fox and you may grow up to join a military lodge and fight beside the king. While the Spartan boy was being taught the values of his city and how if he respected them people would respect him and give him the proper honors. The Athenian boy was being taught exactly the same but his circle of respect around a different set of back. Feeny and values. Now you take the stick and draw in the sand any triangle. Good now mark for me the middle points of each side.
Good. Now draw lines from each angle of the triangle to the middle point of the side opposite three such lines. Right. God. Now the proposition says that these three lines run through a point. How should we set about to prove I don't know. Well that is concerned I did not because I want to play. Yesterday my boy we went near the assembly and saw the beautiful new buildings they're putting up on the rock of the Acropolis. But how do you be housed when you've got big stones like like what do you have to learn geometry before you can high step stone. Yes you do but that isn't the reason why you learn geometry. You know you remember the quiet man we saw watching with the big helmet that was perfectly nice and he used the statesman who is making the city famous and beautiful by ordering all those fine buildings. Now you will grow up to be a fine man like parakeets. And people will listen to what you have to
say and fathers will take their little boys and point to you but if you want to be a great man you must learn geometry in philosophy so that you will be full of wisdom and able to think brave new thoughts to make anthems even greater than she is already. But I thought it was a great he's a great soldier as well. He must be both and so must you. So now let's get on with it learn some more geometry. Within his circle of Justice the Spartan boy is being looped within his. Everybody circle of values goes the same way. Certain things are good. The men who have these things are great men. If you want to be a great man you must learn to have the valuable things great men have. And these are not only virtues but honors and public awards and position. So the circle goes
the private life. Frugality and obedience with a good thing. Public life and the questioning. And of course as he grew older these values became more and more familiar. There's a craftsman at the door selling fine bronze broaches with an AM I should very much like to buy one. They're very beautiful of beautiful things. When I have enough money I shall buy and. Present. Perhaps I'd better just buy. Well you have your own money and you couldn't spend it better. Something beautiful so that every good taste shows the brooch is here. Which do you like to Marcus. I like this one because it's beautiful. Why. Because the design has unity. Why the details have variety. Because all the parts have a just balance with one another and so don't exist just for their own benefit
but for the good of the whole broach. That's what's meant by beautiful very good. And I think you've made a good choice. The young gentleman has learned excellent taste. How much is this brooch. Three drachma the materials alone are very costly. This filigree here is made of the finest silver. Oh. Somehow now I look again the proportions don't seem quite right. But this one here seems very fine. It is not as good as the first one. What do you think father. I think you don't have enough money and you're ashamed to admit it. How much do you need. Well I have it all but a few ovals Never be afraid of admitting poverty. It's not shameful what is shameful is to be poor and then not struggle against it. Well. How are you going to struggle against your poverty. This afternoon I must go to the stadium and throw the discus and the javelin will give me the extra money if I can beat all the others. Will the craftsman keep the first broach and leave. Certainly then if you
beat all the others to discus and javelin we'll see what can be done. Do you think you have a chance. Yesterday I beat them at those games and at the foot race as well. So I've been tricked. Never mind. Perhaps we're raising a victory at the Olympic Games as well as a judge of broaches. While the Athenian lad was being taught the value of beauty and why is spending less Spartan lad was being taught the value of honor and military virtue by the special Spartan teaching method of putting cases and then asking questions. Boy you know another city. There is a man who has learned to imitate the nightingale to absolute perfection. I ask you if you would like to hear you sir. Very much and be bad and do not fly after vanity you do this too much. This time I shall punish you
severely. Come here let me bite your thumb. Make no sound and I wipe off the bed and return to your seat. What is the right answer. If you are asked or here and man who imitates the nightingale sir I have heard the nightingale itself. Good. OK alias sir our ancient king and law giver King Solomon. Was once besieged by the cloud in a very dry place. He had NO lot and had to come to terms the conditions where that he would restore all his conquerors providing he and all his men might drink of the near to speak. After all the usual losen ratifications had been exchanged so that both sides were bound to the outcome. Again so I was told to say we're just together and offered his kingdom as a reward to the man that could refrain from drinking. But they had all gone without
water for so long that not a man could bear to refrain especially with all his comrades drinking. So they all marched down to the spring and each in turn drank his feet a little until at last along King the King and sprinkled his face without swallowing one drop. Then he marched off in the face of the enemy because according to the oaths and articles he and all his men had not drunk of the water. Tell us was the psuedo done. Yes right. Consider reading. He who knows how to speak knows when to speak because he conquered his enemies by conquering himself. Good. But I do not believe he was leading an army of Spartans right. If that had been a Spartan army not one single man would have been coward enough to drink.
So by example and teaching by questioning and answering and by the steady pressure of society the spot grew to be a young man burning with sparkling ambition to one Spartan prestige by winning spotting values. And as usually happens these values that he struggled after were no longer the original values but rather the special honors given in exchange for them. Therefore the day of his achievement really came when his father introduced him at the military lauds where already he had sat for years at the feet of the experienced men. So I here present my son Kelly as I have trained myself to give to the city. He is obedient and he is healthy. You have all seen him naked at the games with the other young men and women. I submit him for membership in this military lodge. Kelly is your father thinks you deserve membership in this lodge you for elected. Were you opposed to rules. Yes. Through that door no wired passes a
secret ballot is held. A single vote against Callias will disqualify him. Callias is elected Kelis these 50 men are your comrades in war. We fight together in peace we eat together. Remember that when King age's returned home victorious. He wished to meet privately with you. But this was refused and the king was really faint. Every man should always be proud to eat at his lodge. Sit down with his now and the blacks. KELLY Yes you are no longer my son you are my comrade you spotted. The young man has become as much a spartan as he can be short of dying in battle for his city which he did later.
You know it was with the Athenian youth grew up to be a young man burning with union ambition to win Athenian prestige by achieving Athenian values and as usual the target soon became the public symbol that he had achieved the values in this case of course. He became a real Athenian citizen. But they are the old men paid attention to his views on the behavior of Athenian leaders. No matter how great a leader he is medically should be sent into exile at once. He should be ostracized. Is it wise to send General into exile at the very moment when the guardianship of Greece is being challenged by the instruments of Sparta. He does not trust the people. There for years unfit to be a leader of a democracy. And any good things he may have done have been done rather by accident than by design. What about the statue of you with your dad for the city. Now my boy you can say a lot against directories but you cannot bring up that ivory and gold statue against him. He cleared
himself absolutely of what where love of stealing the gold the city had given him to make the statue directories gave orders that all the gold parts should be made touchable and detached they were and weighed in public so that every grain of gold was accounted for. So by clearing himself of the charge of stealing gold para Klees convicted himself of the charge of contempt for the people. Why the statues are not usually made with the gold parts detachable. He was simply preparing in advance for base insinuation. As it turns out rightly the insinuations were made. We are sometimes hard on our leaders. Not at all. A leader of a democracy must always account for his actions to the people. Very true but this doesn't mean he should always behave as if he expected the people to do their worst. We called his honesty into question and we had a right to do it. But he by protecting his honesty so
craftily. Show that he was not trusting us. Therefore he should be ostracized. And I will go now and talk some more to the young men and arrange that it be done. Excuse me. He's a very bold boy to send the general into exile on the brink of war. He's a both an audacious quite clever and to make him go far in Athens and draw that cunning he would be looked up to. One couldn't help being impressed with what he said about Greece where you really much embraced. He thinks fearlessly the next courageously. He's not afraid of criticizing his leaders and using his head as much as possible. You brought up your son to be a true Athenian. For each the circle of values is complete. Well that's part of the main value was unthinking obedience and its main symbol was election
to the military a lot. For the Athenian. The main value was an obedient thinking and it symbol was accepted as a man of affair. And the circle of course continues with these young men each influencing the growing boys to follow in his own path and to try to get the same recognition. But both on the spot share the value of patriotism. And symbolized it by dying honorably for the city. And the Athenian Spartan who died face to face on a far Greek battlefield. Twenty five hundred years ago. Little. Oh oh oh oh.
The Greeks as usual had a word for it. The term Ira today was used to express the qualities of a proper person a gentleman in the Greek spirit a person and Daoud with the virtues of his own society. Of course you must know that these virtues were limited to the free men. But the Greek system was built upon slavery and an under privileged class. It was only the nobles who could have our AK. We don't know what values inspired the breasts of the others. Perhaps we are now beginning to see that people symbolize their values in different ways. On the plains of North America for instance the greatest value symbol was counting coup that is touching an enemy without killing him. In Central Australia the natives have certain long flat stones called touring the Australian values symbol is the privilege of seeing
these stones in their sacred hiding place. But whatever the symbol it stands for the values that the culture holds dear. And a person does not achieve these symbolic expressions unless he demonstrates these personal qualities. Culture is a circular thing. We teach as we learn. The Athenian youth and the Spartan youth learned their values from their fathers. But having demonstrated their virtue. They became models for the youth of the generation to follow. Now unlike the Greeks. In our democratic culture achievement of success is supposed to be open to everyone and we disapprove of any restrictions on achieving values and these values are varied but take school grades for instance. They are symbols of achievement of learning but often we find students going
after the grades themselves instead of learning. Again. We had my industry and productiveness and tell ourselves that these lead to well. And next thing we find ourselves admiring the wealthy and assuming they possess the very truth that that wealth symbolizes. You see all cultures have values which define the virtuous and the superior and all cultures symbolize the achievement of virtue in some way. Dr. Walter Goldschmidt of the department of anthropology and sociology of the University of California Los Angeles has concluded. When Greek meets Greek. A study in values a program in the serious ways of mankind designed to show dramatically how human beings live together in different times and places. This script was written by Lester Sinclair and produced in the studios of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation Toronto by Andrew Allen.
Ways of mankind
When Greek meets Greek
Producing Organization
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
National Association of Educational Broadcasters
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
This program, "When Greek Meets Greek," discusses ancient Greek values and how they were perpetuated.
Series Description
This series is an exploration into the origin and development of cultures, customs and folkways in various parts of the world.
Broadcast Date
Family life--Greece.
Media type
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Composer: Agostini, Lucio, 1913-
Funder: Fund for Adult Education (U.S.)
Producer: Allan, Andrew, 1907-1974
Producing Organization: Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Producing Organization: National Association of Educational Broadcasters
Writer: Sinclair, Lister
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 52-39-4 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:43
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Chicago: “Ways of mankind; When Greek meets Greek,” 1964-01-03, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 31, 2023,
MLA: “Ways of mankind; When Greek meets Greek.” 1964-01-03. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 31, 2023. <>.
APA: Ways of mankind; When Greek meets Greek. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from