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Voices of Europe produced and recorded by Milton Mayer in cooperation with the University of Chicago under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters and now Milton Mayer. In it hand in the Australian Bureau where her husband is very outside his native land and where he lived in one room and worked on his archive good on Bismarck he was born the granddaughter of Prince Philip Mark who built the German Empire is sitting with me today to talk about the free care of many of her rival the Imperial Germany of the so-called golden time before the First World War. The tyranny of inflation and democracy and collapse after the First World War in the Germany of the Nazis and the second world
war. Get up on the mark in the will of the end of the general nobleman and scholar. A lot of herd is starring in the crowd over here and I don't count right away. Whose works are well known in America and who is institution the school of with and direst Are you sure that their prize fight with his dad way Mark. The short renaissance of German humanism between the two world wars proper protester would you tell me first about the Germany in which you were born. The Germany built by Prince Bismark small of them who had been born in 1896. My father began to produce from Holland on the other when my grandfather was born and also where the whole family over was with Bork
and then when my grandfather died in 1918 in 98 my father built the house into the school and enough to do We went there and I think kind of middle of it all of that we had already sent to be shown all of them because we like very much. It was much more comforted with young thing than shields and all that is who is who isn't a big boom as they did it wouldn't be good. When did it when the. My grandfather had got as a present pulled and pulled after the move all of it intended to nibble. Or was it to fix that. Don't let your head get on with it being a Danish property of the Danish king been that shit to the emperor after the Danish war moon and the
so OK he gave it to the person to present my gun on the leg of all of this negative image Luna's that he loves the woods and whenever he had a moment from Berlin that he went there and the first there was no house on it and there was the big board room and the first years it was diluted here lived in Foster's house but then this hotel has had so little room and he bought it because he didn't want to be caught and on his estate. When and when. Next time he went there he just. Went into the attendant there and that's where we went in 19 to mine and that's where my childhood than a key for my father died which was a bit hood and it said all of them. My love of all that it is doing. So we did a very secluded life of the five children and cousins who were very helpful in
that way we would have both been through the whole week together that we had but they were full of self and didn't know that image from that of the outside world can only compare so I suppose that it would be asking too much to get your recollections of your grandfather I believe you were you were born in May he said she was to you when he died and he saw me but I had two of them in the room that I think I was there when I was 1 year old. These were two words but I don't remember him anymore. My sister were three years older than the men but one moment when she was booked into this other dark room you know he was suffered very much from pain in his face. And so he had keyed up to the hardest because of the wind hit him and the hospital the doctor called. And she always told me she remembered coming to this dock and boom and
that was that really a good fit for the man and she had to the sight of the four dead to him. And she never forgot her but I don't remember him talk about his relation with then his disagreements with the Kaiser when you were two years old I suppose were that you wouldn't have been privy to what good we do it we all of wisdom knew about it and it was talked about of course and to them that there was a good for the whole time and feelings as children when as children all those books are full of fifth column against because as you've mentioned Little children what with such things they first knew this. Yeah and then had a members have to live with it how can they always came to the school of this enormous sum. Delegation when the people who went to
the chapel to see the grave and then went to the park and hired who under the terrace with you or with the media speeches then we as children had to go up to the terrace and bow to the people and then we didn't back home what it was we had to cover it for well he had to stand there and and to bend down. Peter looked at me like that poll. What was your schooling. I learned at home where I had a master and first as long as my brother was at home when I entered together with his master he went to school and then had the government given the lose of the therapy room and then I went to school there and then came the war thinking the war ended in 14 before the
last winter in when I was just 17. But I did it for my mother that she saw that I had one with her in Berlin still and we are when they're bored. I'm too good to them. They are there and that would be interesting and so I'm very glad that the killer who knew of the world as it was before the war that of course never can come back again. We all saw it in type of our board with the Emperor who went off of them and put a ball that DIDN'T have been that the emperor even was was interested he talked a lot with meth just because he or was wanted to meet up in a bit. You know it had the wish to make of this quarrel with your fuse even when my grandfather
had to leave. The Emperor had the great wish to keep my father and the whole the peace if they have my grandfather because probably he also caught that if my father would stay through the whole thing would look different. And I mean it wouldn't be and it wouldn't look as if it was all his fault. My father would have stayed on here and with my father if you wouldn't care that if his father left he would leave too would your fortitude if he had which was very hard for him as he was. Politically they're interested in them and so he couldn't Jim. Well firstly I mean did he didn't want to take part in more way in the bill to do with them and all that left.
Yeah when was it that you meant everything the first time and he came to me when I had to get everything in there. My government has been again father was a friend of my Got thought of as much as a student that went together in Berlin and the organist corresponded and often mid-late the long room and so when might happen to the brother of my mother met my husband in Paris with studying in in three or four rooms. He told you that he was wants to come to his sister to the east who also because of the connection. And in 1960 my husband came first and that is will we have another intellectual for him in heaven and then he gave me a every year to the 19 10 we saw every year that we were to go call 911 he went for the word journey and there were two at
home where you board that have a lot of people. I have a minute to 12:00 and we didn't see him again till after the war and then in 1918 when the Germans when the board the province's Madison came did a fit of German because the first volume of his time without it being printed all of it is in German this the second and if you had him in the book you call it is when the local because he had I finished it and him very difficult just to save it. Who are the who are books of history of evolution in this do and yet it was hidden Una in the friend house and of the bank gave it when the budget came in but they didn't look that. And then at last when that he would have it here they give him do it again. He came to me to give it to this and it did and did in Germany and here it was to us as he was a friend of the family who knew him
so here we go. I go to him again and now the Germany of that time the Germany after the first war powers change from the Germany of your child. Well she completed about an hour different was the spirit of Germany and how would you relate this time the time of the republic to the rice of Naziism came later. Well I think that was completely different. I mean after the after the First World War there was doing an enormous upheaval of all of the pop this all the moment and yes some of the women did that with any mounting always this time of the where and just because of the current conservative nationalists and the wild I'm as thick as a communists
and socialists communists Well it was the weakest in Germany didn't have much influence. They gave him the bad news first between the nationalists the conservatives of olden times and the socialists which sort of where the leading man there was the time he lived till the last or nothing came the got the upper hand how socialistic did the German people become I don't mean come in a stick now but socialistic get the German people from become. From the Germany of your grandfathers and father's time to the period after the war you see the Germans over there and when the first sort of passion of rule is not a good word for them being a mother to be socialist at war we're at extreme this to this then idea that organise next to this
socialist then ever and these other movements that we're well in the weird one of the calmest you you as a school or is it that would like to live with the heat and so on. Others where more nationalists but they're all aware that interested in the two of us with next. And didn't want to ignore much of politics here I mean there's the if you look at the photo if you will into which it was just looking for something new or how did your own life your private life change after the war of course there was your marriage. When are they condition of Germany affect your own life your own world found in you know weird that everybody loves them and then in the movie a big inflation of 1923 and that everybody who had been saved and and had was capable of hitting it big houses on it
couldnt do so anymore. Relationship and that changed everything then which of your husband lost his brother Yes you know if you lost everything and had to leave the game completely with her the time in the house in dark stood and began by from the beginning. And because of that and everything that I have in here it was also lost to the station to the tune and he had to earn his living with their shows and drive things just as any other item of this bad period. Which of course has characterized most sensationally by the inflation of the ruinous you know ration of 23. This was also a period of tremendous productivity on your husband's part so that if you did have a living as a as an academic you have time to invent the first goes with it heart of gold but haven't done a lot of this book which was a sort of a more than any other of his books
would just appear during the inflation so that for the money I ever found copies surely could buy £1 but often you have you I mean you remember the Venice of those times when I thought that that was all that I mean we didn't have opinion of that. And so we had to travel enormously intellect a lot and you know the literature of the author of a piece of it where it was them rather hard left to the New York and then the school of wisdom was planned in 19 order the first plan by the media that gave you the hits and was interested in you know my husband then and he facilitated for to come to doubt. But first we had a house that had belonged to his clergyman his own which he couldn't go in and it was after the evolution and he had to look for another living and for his help with it does he give that power
and then he was the president of the school of wisdom and the month of people who were interested and so there was a certain someone then Peter to tough this the holiness to the institution. And now they never leave you know there was a big convention where people are talking from and there are people for whom all the word came it was first in 1957 and if we go to the whole week there was an enormous They live there and everybody loved coming out of there. They've been students who moved anywhere in the town. Then that well with the first the first and the last that the methods work and then the actual lecture the first emitted a problem like. The last
big convention the goal of mentioned add in with men and from and when he made this plan what the convention would be that you will look through a lot of letters to all of the people he thought would be able to fit in the vice that he needed for the office. Most of it and there was began a man there where he had his physical and it would live to the evening. We all get together and what is there with better the special atmosphere then ever vowed it was meant to annoy everybody with our International which was a great thing in Germany because Germany nobody dare talk on the WHO has nothing to do there and you have been declared effective beginning here. Everybody knew where they lived but then everybody considered it a bit and that was that you know that revolution which we've gotten from them of the German fear of
command. Don't tell them pardon me I was going to say that then this was the second Germany and then came National Socialism and what that this duty or where that changed completely. Oh how weird that my husband couldn't lecture and IMHO he couldn't bear to have with it because on this puppy the only book you have dished the fever in the Big Book to who can best and believe in the six which came out into this small edition will this have been doing it without the sort of doing the years of 30 feet 39 people call in French and published in Paris but you lived down in Germany we lived in downtown we stayed there and we had to pitch your defeat of this stuff all coming every moment and one of them trend to their phone to my home and I'm thankful. That was very dangerous and that is it.
Wouldn't it be better for him to leave now because the guard left her with the fishes in MIA here and then he is trying to Peter very much of that therefore because he was about everything that he did for Beth and that I don't believe that his conduct would be. I would be prepared to come in if I met it but I don't think of leaving if it won't get it and we thought we did. There have been killed and 37 and 37 but I'm going to have them invited him to a doctor to look and everything was of Amy and he even got a grade of. National Socialist and the government at all who would want if they were all of the go there to get forward of the mission without the one then doing it. We saw everything with every mission and we have youth and everything.
I think all of that and then that was in November and we were to start in December just before Christmas and into beginning December 1 to get the book in our room and from that they want it to their core. A man who said that he knew math and they wanted to know what he could pick them out of the never knew him and with all he cared to come into the house. And then they looked through everything and all of the oil writing desk and everything and didn't find a thing because there was nothing there with the president using incredible ruler who came first and go. Moment that was magic and then look at all the little thought and then I asked them to tell me why don't you look at the disk I mean I wouldn't if I didn't have talking to head I don't think I would
leave it in my hand if we have work if it is. And there are other police officers on the one that it was he was one of the old ones that had been taken over by the Nazis and he was quite nice and kind as here come nothing and forward it was all of whom the hood and death as the economy but we don't see that you knew in Germany we have had a custom that we come into and this that I can give you the big door in the middle that lock and we are meant to be open and in the middle of it all the big hullabaloo too. What would you call it a big hole in the envelope of Alberto on death is written in large letters. Very secret. And there we had everything. We know what happened. Trip to America when and they are the only thing to come to Duke with them one of them post pic of the left of the hall.
And on this post it was written the physics of the will or so range there was for two months. Mom and Einstein and such people where not like in Germany and we think that that part of the myth that too on the whole began think they need it on the desk before when Christmas when they were going two days before we wanted to leave or that it was already on the way to blame and there came a telephone from what you called these and then at the office for the exchange of my appearance leave here and there to order said the ardent commission. One of the hinge of all of the journey with with the hole his pocket was taking away he was said to the Gestapo and that he was forbidden to go. And then here the picture of the hope of the difficulty couldn't come until he was ill woman and little political in this that they
were going to get out there that it took a while back and asked what kind of innocent black doctor was there. So all be went with that to the gum to the biggest of whom the people with in a hurry and said that was a preconceived thing if it where then they said when you will go if you would I put every word that is said against you know you have obeyed you want to write what you like to America but to have a word that would be said against you in against Germany in America who would be the one your count who had to win it and I want to see anything of course because the just let things go at that too and then we left and I think we've lived with Lord. I've dreamed of it. You wouldn't believe the death has been to a moment when to that force and that they gave me that I had a man whom they came into the hotel and do for him. We could we have two of the four. And so he didn't have that or that he saw my husband he didn't think like nothing. And he
humped it one of your neck forward to look for him to see whether he with the what was the matter but he didn't back it. And then after a fortnight of papers in America who looked enormous to me he was completely healthy and shoot out of fuel did nothing about black boys and that it was all enough if he had to have been kept and of who it is they will get the V-A of Mohun in the field where the room and came and took away his passport and made him find people that he was not allowed to live on to tap and then when the war got playful get into the fold in the humidity doctorate immediately because of the Gauleiter there. He didn't personally more than Think room and so he left. From one moment to the other and went to my mother in Holland where we can afford to screen for the tool a son his son was severely wounded when he lost his leg and with vivid
and. One of the after figure in how he was disappointed to music was that we went to the people who were and to be near him and lived to the end of the war and you could hear in the village and my husband had his first visit into the pool in the 45 in general bit of the from that he recovered completely and human and when the war was a little bit of room when people here from the thought came and offered him to come here and the Ole Miss would have with me and with this method and in it for the 450 he came here when this charming little house was offered him and he was very happy here for three weeks and then he had his 15th book and you know Oscar here in full. What.
Well as the effect on your life and your childhood the effect of the security of your childhood and you compared with the insecurity of your children's childhood and its effect on them that is the world the world you grew up in was the most stable Harlem imaginable world I suppose and the world in which they grew up the most of the day. You know when I would see that in this piece there they'd hid from ASH a little of what was at the Venice home it was and could give them. As for the other family that were difficult that when just when the Nazis kind of came I think it was a great hit for my husband and father of my children that their new video will pull my husband one of the good ones are bad and they're not
the sort who will be for that we've developed such a preemptive war with chi. OK the young man was there when the older woman didn't go in and didn't like it that much. Then in your view it is possible for for a family within the home actually to resist the deleterious in court on the side of the world. Oh yes there is an election. The whole effort is if there is a home atmosphere company the thing is thank you very much. Voices of Europe was produced and recorded in Europe by Milton Mayer in
cooperation with the University of Chicago under a grant from the educational television and radio center. This program is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This program has been introduced by modern partner. This is the end E.B. Radio Network.
Voices of Europe
Countess Maria Goedela von Bismarck-Schnhausen
Producing Organization
University of Chicago
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
An interview with Countess Maria Goedela von Bismarck-Schnhausen about the changes in Germany from the 19th century to the midpoint of the 20th century. Main topics include her grandfather, Otto von Bismarck, and her husband, Hermann Graf Keyserling.
Series Description
Interviews with noted Europeans on a variety of subjects, conducted by Milton Mayer, American author and broadcaster, lecturer and professor in the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University.
Broadcast Date
Global Affairs
Bismarck, Otto, Fu_rst von, 1815-1898
Media type
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Interviewee: Bismarck-Schnhausen, Maria Goedela von
Interviewer: Mayer, Milton, 1908-1986
Producing Organization: University of Chicago
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 57-7-17 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:31
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Chicago: “Voices of Europe; Countess Maria Goedela von Bismarck-Schnhausen,” 1957-01-01, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 29, 2023,
MLA: “Voices of Europe; Countess Maria Goedela von Bismarck-Schnhausen.” 1957-01-01. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 29, 2023. <>.
APA: Voices of Europe; Countess Maria Goedela von Bismarck-Schnhausen. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from