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I'm recording this statement because it ought to have meaning for someone else. I thought a long time before deciding to put it in personal terms. I don't want sympathy. I'm not that kind of woman. But the real meaning of these things is personal. We were a family not an abstract table of statistics. We were sitting at the lunch table. It was Saturday. My husband the three children and me. My husband was explaining something he'd explained a dozen times before. Many men I think preachin and explain and retell stories of personal triumphs when they're feeling weak and powerless. It's like a rooster crowing at the rising sun. My husband knows what he's doing when he does it and he knows why. And he knows I see through it. But when I smile and look fascinated that's what he wants even though we both see through it. It's one of those things between people and the children think he's very wise. If we had that kind of family built around habits and expectations patterns we could understand
each other we could talk without words. We knew each other. They knocked at the door and they were polite and they took my husband away that's all. I know and my children are learning it in school how the garbage just collected in our town. I know how a police fingerprint people but I don't understand the rules under which they operate. I've been in our city courts and some of my children in civics class but I don't understand the principle of under which our courts operate. I know how many sandwiches are in the United States Senate and I have memorized the organizational charts in the classrooms. But I don't understand their fundamental meaning. I couldn't explain to my children what was happening to their father in the past it didn't occur to me that we might feel this way. So you've got a thing some day and I certainly didn't think it was my duty to understand the meaning of our country
or its system of justice. I didn't think so because I didn't think about it. When they took my husband away I couldn't think of anything except they ought to blow horns they ought to ride off on horses not to have a ceremony like surrendering a city or a Ford. They want to sign a wrist change for my husband when they take him away. What I'm trying to say is that you ought not to have to watch him go down the sidewalk as though he were going out to get the paper with the kid standing watching scared to death that they wouldn't see him again. You ought to be able to take the children back inside and explain to them. But all I knew about was that there are nine justices on the Supreme Court and they knew that it was an electric lock on the cell door that's all. And the American family ought to know about something besides machines and charts and fingerprinting. It's man and principles that count when it's your own husband there.
And it ought to be when it's someone else's husband too. That's what I'm trying to say. We were a good family. Justice to every man his due or a series of radio programs about the principles of justice to every man his doom is produced by radio station WAGA of the University of Wisconsin under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters. No to every man his due. Accused murderers kidnappers rapists pickpockets prostitutes
bandits and thieves funneled through courts and jails in an endless parade which began with the dawn of the first society arranged in contact with courtrooms and judges policemen and lawyers has left a sticky residue of doubt distaste and fear. Swarm to a car. There is one thing you may be certain about. Yes a little love it robs all of these are ancient attitudes toward the men who handle criminals and crime. And there are equally ancient attitudes toward the processes of justice it's just small steps. I see a judge looking at that pretty girl and I will tell you exactly what I think about justice. If you are referring to a general principle like fairness or goodness then I believe in it and I will work for it. No one in his right mind would support injustice. However if you are referring to the police the courts and prisons I
would not spoil my family by contact with it for these reasons. But no one in my family has all will be involved with the police and courts. It is not our concern. Second the people who are involved are criminals racketeers gamblers and vagrants. I won't gushed tears and sympathy for that sort of people. I pay my taxes to support the police and courts and I expect results. And that is my only concern. It just isn't my day. These Masih attitudes may have been appropriate in Babylon 4000 years ago. All of that is Dr. Phil. They are certainly doing now to be meaningful in a country like our own. Murders still darkens the air of our courtrooms. But our courts are equally employed with problems such as those of a dancer Bobby lottos who although she often knocked him cold never killed him dead.
She didn't know that's what she calls them and they begin to pop you know until well go one go. We stop going to be wearing. Why are you telling me you do you want. Me to just sit there. God I mean you've seen all the others pop in you just wait. How many how many poele know how many are left. That's the question. What do you mean that's the question. They've taken it to court in the Concorde she ought to be locked up cheap floozy cotton jails are just the place for that trial. You're missing the point the point is that you can be just as well clothed in bubbles. If there are enough of them as you can be in a fur coat. The question is how many bubbles is enough. That's what they're trying to decide in that courtroom.
How many bubbles is enough. You know it's a question of public policy really grown men sitting there in a court room deciding something like that. Well someone has to decide. You and I could decide to go down and ride you out of town on a rail or we can somehow manage to vote on it in the next election. But the best way is in the court. Well it's terrible. Tell me what color with a. Man. In 1995 the United States Supreme Court considered the case of Jacobson versus Massachusetts. Jacobson get that opinion no way from me. Jacobson refused to be vaccinated for smallpox. Under Massachusetts law a criminal complaint was filed against him.
He carried his case to the supreme court pleading among other things that the statute under which I was convicted is in dedication of the right secured to me by the preamble to the Constitution of the United States tends to subvert and defeat the purposes of the Constitution as declared in the preamble and it is also contrary to the 14th Amendment. These cases are far removed from bloody handed murderer and light fingered pocket picking their crimes of another kind. Babbles le Toulouse deliberately broke the law knowingly and in full view of a uniformed policeman because she wanted a legal definition of the limits of her costume. A case was a test case. So to the case of Jacobson both presented issues of principle to the courts one ridiculous and the other profound.
Both symbolize the fact that our courts are more than hunts for criminals racketeers gamblers and vagrants little children transported to private schools in public school busses. In the absence of a clear constitutional statement on this subject who shall decide. Americans don't traditionally settle questions of public policy in the streets with clubs and knives barricades and fire hoses. I decisions run from voters to legislators to laws which may be tested by the courts against the constitutions federal or state. It's true that punks and delinquents racketeers and the generous are funneled through our jails and courts. It's also true that major public issues passed through the same final slavery was tested in the courts. The birth pangs of organized labor were acted out their business monopolies were tested in court. The Blue Eagle of the depression died there segregation. The
right not to be vaccinated. Communism are grist for the mills of justice. The chair occupied by today's petty thief may have been occupied last year by a $100000 a year corporation official accused of rigging bids or perhaps by the novelist who was arrested for inciting to riot because he read the Declaration of Independence out loud at the wrong place at the wrong time. As a test. Gun clues join the toughest meanest most horny handed most widely held attitude. Justice. I what's it got to do with the price. But this attitude is quite mistaken. Few of us will see a husband or relative as crowded into a courtroom between policeman all of us will see our deepest convictions our principles and our pocketbooks. I shoot into courts as
public issues. Just steps according to the classic definition. Justice means every man is you. The classic definition is an announcement of a goal. The name of an end to be desired and never reached. No one with friend or relative conviction or pocket book caught in the machinery of justice expects the goal to be reached. Not if he thinks about it and he will think about it long enough and honestly enough will very probably decide that too. This may be a little too strong a medicine for this world anyway. Just this in practical terms in terms of this world and not the next is law. The rules principles and procedures that govern the actions of our police and that
control the search for legal truth within our courts of justice in down to earth terms is law. But to the layman law moves in mysterious ways indeed better perhaps to memorize the number of judges on the Supreme Court or learn about fingerprinting than to become bogged down in this web ad. So the party of the first part to the party of the third party there is a corpus black guy on my bed and I think it must be dead or it hasn't got its head and that's defacto wherefore. But I must stand and stare day says since I don't know what its place is within the Corpus Juris. That's the law. Can we hey be is this corpus of Asia to God. Again we move this court mandamus we should as ten days use Pro n day or 10 day and me. I'm the owner of that bed after all. Said Charles MACKLIN The lawyer is a sort of hocus pocus
science. So John obvious not 16 67 1735 in his book law is a bottomless pit. Hocus was you know cutting at Teron e any reasonable layman can become lost forever in the background of a simple writer. Fortunately for everyone interested in down to earth justice the law is reasonable. No less an authority than Sir Edward Cook has said so. Reason is the life of the law namely the common law itself is nothing else but reason the law which is perfection of reason. Laymen may with knowledge demand justice for a relative or pocket book without fear of Hokus or pokus saw the rules of evidence. The fundamental principles which make for justice in our courts are few in number. Simple direct clear and reasonable. They include such
reasonable items as the right to an unbiased judge the right to have legal assistance and the right not to be hung up by one's thumbs or to be beaten into a confession. These principles can be summed up simply as the rights of the defendant the individual principles which make up the rights of the defendant supply the materials for the programs which follow in the series. However at the moment a more general question must be considered. Oh come damn defend has got them right. Defendants have special rights for two principle reasons The first is somewhat mechanical. The second arises from the nature of mankind. The mechanical reason is based on the fact that our courts are organized around a regulated antagonism Jones vs. Smith for example or the prosecution versus the defense. This is the way it looked to RICHARD ROWE defendant.
It says yes somebody is versus me. You know like a prize I'd like to have it this is their study only in my case it's the United States of America versus me. On one side the power of the government in all criminal cases on the other. The defendant possibly along broke friendless defenseless. I don't know. You know like man they got the United States Marines. This federal attorney's going to say that he's got the FBI. You get the federal marshals you get the Army the Navy the Air Force the Coast Guard and he's got Fort Knox to spend. I got 26 cents in men like I'm in jail not am I going to get out there and get them facts and evidence is for civilian defense. Justice depends on a full and fair presentation of the evidence on both sides of the case. Obviously a defendant need some weight to balance his side of the scales.
Federal prosecutors got a Federal Gov't would rather run in and get evidence and coming to jail and I got a hole in my suit with the judge that no one on my side like that judge. He's a. It's principles that balance the scales. For example the right of the defense to use government power to compel the attendance of witnesses for the defense. The mechanical need for counter weight on the side of the defendant is easily seen but the second reason for the existence of a set of defendant's rights needs a closer look. The unpleasant fact is that defendants rights. The principles which make for justice in our courts can become right objectionable in some circumstances. For I was already home. I beg your pardon. I'm sorry I do not like to speak to strangers while I'm waiting for a bus as I am not them fellows. Oh I quite agree but the words hang
behind I quite agree and so should own lawyer. I agree he should not be permitted to turn Not courtroom into a circus. Stalling complaining demanding think that no murder is entitle to. I cried great. These things are all well and good when decent innocent people are accused but many might be committing a crime like these. Kinds of criminals ought to be handled without any formalities. I quite agree that Georgie ought to be home tomorrow night. Here. Is my bus coming. Oh mine too. Oh oh oh oh oh oh i forgot where you go yeah I know I forgot my co-writer there for well I hope you cut it down each time you die. The rights of defendants are quite acceptable to almost everyone when applied to decent upstanding innocent citizens who happen to be in trouble or acceptable and given to people who don't need them but they can become quite objectionable when
applied to the people who do need them. Those dirty murdering feel they ought to be hanged on a high state they ought to be hanged. Are you aware that you were a little bit funny. What on earth do you mean you were a perfect stranger sit down beside me on a public bus and demand blood and death right out of the clear blue sky it's alarming. I am sorry. I was referring to those murderous those horrible men. They ought to be hanged. I'm not so bloodthirsty as I sound. Everyone knows they argue. I do know the district attorney. He's a good honest man and he knows they are guilty. We have a good police force and they know these men are guilty. Considering the terrible crime they committed. It is a waste of time to give them a jury trial in the name of peace and let their attorney told the time. Those creatures on the gasoline it took to drive to court. Cool well and good to say our laws protect the innocent. They
should but they shouldn't protect the guilty. Don't you agree. Well it's a lovely day really. But is the argument that hits hardest at our system of justice or any other system of justice. And it hurts the most because it's simple clear direct and logical. It's chains Manda monsters move mobs to murder and led whole populations to bloody our age. And there is no counter-argument why Jorian attorney or the right of appeal for a man who's known to be guilty and guilty of terrible crimes shouldn't be permitted to play with the law. Hide behind legal chicanery abuse laws designed to protect the innocent. Man I want to be hanged oughta be hanged. You can't argue with that. You can't argue with that logic. No more than you can argue with the logic of paranoia. After killing his neighbor a man who believes himself to be God can justify his action with faultless
logic you can't argue with that. You have to go back to the basic premise where. We don't get pissed staring at me as though you think I have something wrong with me. In cases like this I just don't believe in those tainted do gooder sob sister ideas we have to be hard with men like these. I say those men ought to be hanged out of hand with out formalities. Well I can. I say Who do you think you are. What do you think the district and the attorney in the police are that then you can discard out of hand that a man should die. Are you God. There is a second reason. The fundamental support for the principles called defendant's rights justice in this world is made by a man prosecuting attorneys judges defense attorneys jurymen the police may all be sincere to a fault spotless in honor and determined to find the truth.
But they are not God. They are men of all of the generations of men. Those of us living today possess the most powerful arguments concerning human limitations. Science once worked with something like facts. It now works with probabilities. Our vision is limited and so is our knowledge. No judge policeman or lawyer no matter how well intentioned is capable of arriving at absolute truth or even approximate and legal truth unassisted. Just as no scientist is qualified to announce the size and shape of the cosmos as a truth. Science falls back on tested procedures for finding approximations of the truth. Our courts depend on tested procedures in reaching justice. Tested procedures guided toward the truth in both cases. Procedure in our courts is grounded on the rights of the defendants.
Nor are the rights of defendants a matter of soft headed do gooder sob sister ideas. They are a product of centuries of violent experience. They're formed to an image of man intolerable to a self-righteous mob or a lady howling for blood. This is the image done lightly. John Q. Citizen opt for justice. What we need in this country is justice. Plain simple direct. Old fashioned justice. According to the FBI every time we take a trip John you end up in a howling rage I will be so glad to get out of here out of this room this hotel this city what happened this time. Short changed. I was short changed. Would you pack my suit. I get it all wrinkled all right but I ought to have some paper for it. Do you know in this city there are places where you can't go at night. People public
streets are too dangerous for people to walk in. Even the cops go in pairs cut throats high ought to have some paper for this to use the towels they're on the bed. They ought to work. According to the FBI these belong to the hotel I can't pack your suit in them go Oh that's all right. They won't miss them. They've got thousands. Now according to the FBI there is a major crime committed in this country every 20 seconds. Imagine every 20 seconds. Did you pack the ashtray which ashtray the one from last night the one from the hands off bra. One of the accordion player on it in the little kid's shards. Wrap it in that washcloth Alltel. Sure. According to the FBI there are around 400000 larcenies of over $50 committed every year in this country. Over 14000 of what about the wrist watch. Well I'm wearing it like always. According to the bureau I don't mean that one I mean the one thing you wore across the border on your ankle impacted last night at that motel. Oh I see the towel.
All right I'm ready. Let's get out of here and for heaven's sake don't leave anything these people will keep it all even an issue. You know what Jane I'll be glad to get home. These city people preying on innocent travelers. The total crime index for standard metropolitan areas is well it's. The list of jaunty jolly little crimes is long. A ring hidden from the tax assessor aff air for children to overly inflated expense accounts. An agreement between mechanic and car owner to take the insurance company. Perjury in court. Perjury out of court flat lies contrived to sell products the small of foolish the private secret crimes of good and decent men which go on numbered. It is this image of man to which our courts are shaped and more the procedures of our courts grew from centuries of experience with evil and men hanging judges so they stick jailers brutal policemen are a matter of experience and we've
seen in this century a new kind of civic activity a new and different community project behind the postal departments fire departments courtrooms alight garbage trucks ambulances and hospitals. The crematoria of Nazi Germany the crematoria were not machines of war. They did not burn the blood of battle. Exclude war fears of nuclear weapons and microbes and total destruction. Mass slaughter became a code civilian activity in the 20th century. The civil image of man along with the lines at the opera and the World Series ticket window must include naked wait my turn the lines to death six million men women and children died less than 20 years ago of thoughts mathematics and civilised logic. It may be that human kind can be divided between good and bad. If so our laws the procedures of our courts anticipate the presence of the bad on the judges bench in the jury room
in the police station. But there is most probably a tiger within each of us a seed of evil. The insecurities and fears that ride our nights may not be a product of the rockets and bombs on which we blame them. History may have forced us to see ourselves not the naked victim but the bloated Tiger I say hanging without a trial riding to work on a city bus. Whether some men are evil and some good or all men are both laws are arranged to contain the evil and free the good and judge and jury and policeman. When a husband walks down the sidewalk between two armed policeman he goes with good and evil principle procedure his rights as a defendant are his only protection. These are prosaic but they rest in the sublime. That is without sin among you let him cast the first stone.
It is here that justice begins. To every man his view is produced by radio station WAGA of the University of Wisconsin under a grant from the National Educational Television Radio Center and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcast scripts. Milburn and Elizabeth Carlson Technical Advisor David Stone music by Don vaguely production by Karl Schmidt. This is the N.A. Radio Network. You're.
Doing. Your Thing.
To every man his due
Producing Organization
National Association of Educational Broadcasters
WHA (Radio station : Madison, Wis.)
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
To Every Man His Due: The Anglo-American System of Justice
Series Description
Dramatic-narrative series on principles of justice under the American system of law, particularly the rights of defendants.
Broadcast Date
Law Enforcement and Crime
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Advisor: Fellman, David, 1907-2003
Music Director: Voegeli, Don
Producing Organization: National Association of Educational Broadcasters
Producing Organization: WHA (Radio station : Madison, Wis.)
Production Manager: Schmidt, Karl
Writer: Carlson, Elizabeth
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 62-17-1 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:35
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Chicago: “To every man his due; Introduction,” 1962-02-03, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 3, 2024,
MLA: “To every man his due; Introduction.” 1962-02-03. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 3, 2024. <>.
APA: To every man his due; Introduction. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from