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Voices of Europe Milton Mayer American author and lecturer broadcaster and professor of social research from the University of Frankfurt has been interviewing Europeans who are alive and sensitive to the tragedian dilemma of the conditions that surround them. People who can help us to understand their own feelings and their own aspirations. Here is Milton Mayer. This story of Mrs. Lucy gobbles life is in a way the story of Europe itself. Certainly the story of Europe could not be told without it. In the little market town of Andover here in southwest England I have persuaded Mrs. garble to write down and to read to us the story of a European woman Mrs. garble.
I was born in a ball the length of the floor bed. It had become German after the defeat of the French in 1871. My parents were friends and did not speak German. They hated Germany to understand my home and country conditions. I will have to point out the peculiar problem of Alsace-Lorraine. The Pleistocene needs a joke I fixed situation between the line the vote and Switzerland and changing heard from German to French. In life they have the outbreak of a first world war. Found Me edge of a time in college of my hometown at Colma. My father had died in June 1914. Until December the Germans did not the board that in January 1915 we had to leave homes and possessions
and go to when we determined can move up that cost. We were prepared to get it to Toulouse after two months where my mother had relations. I had to abandon my education after one year in order to earn I little thought my letter and myself 1919 My most of the terms to French liberated Alsace-Lorraine. Whilst I was to image at age two with Tate's sage intervened I married a young blind people and they had one that after 16 years I could not attend any more infidelities and had to park after my separation. For my husband. I took my two little daughters back to calma after
only two years. The second world war broke out. Of course we had to be there if we jis again and went to Dijon. The French would suspect me of being on the German side and the Germans would suspect me of being which the French because I was an elevation. I worked then as twenty later at municipal offices where of course since June 1940 we were under German occupation. The worst came with the news that everything their French educations processed in Alsace-Lorraine was to be confiscated. The office shill chief interpreter between the French and German authorities was also an education of refugee families TAs bulk university professors and very devoted to his
countrymen. He opted to inform the German commander to work that the confiscation of our home and wood would be changed into liquidation. If I would go to labor work in Germany as strange as it seems it was a go only solution at the same time to earn enough money for the keeping and education of my daughters. Naturally life was not easy. I never had been in effect i.e. before working at piecework so wouldn't the sector his welfare department spotted me out when into my by language knowledge for the sake of vice of the French women scam a dirty work in addition to my factory job. Over 60 people in the dormitory banks struggle with sex as May
25th. Most awful women hate me. Obviously a nice consumable for every difficulty. It was not there I have gotten in. Some had their sympathies on the strange those of us on the German side. The guest type who made many inquisitional raids in the camp some awful women we have taken to forced labor as hostages. When the for no apparent reason I was taken to the local prison without any explanation at all. I kept playing during the whole time the policemen came. Telling me that the Gestapo had been generous and released me. But I was taken to a new place a steel factory where we worked was hot and dirty. The conditions got worse. The food was horrible. The nights were often disturbed by heavy air raids.
The German course and dead. To us because of the underground the worst and sabotage growing. It was end of 1945 against them. Everywhere in France. Only that I was working for my children kept me a life at the breakdown in my health skill. It was quite a good film As Good German welfare doctors sent me your niece. I longed of course to meet my children. Having not seen them for so long. I was knowing when with my daughters I would do everything not to be separate from them again. That in Paris the French authorities under German control would do nothing for me. They would not even give me a ration card because I had escaped from the Germans.
Nobody wanted me and I could not stay anywhere because I had no people. I had to use my right name all the time because if I had used for its name I might have to prove my identity. And without papers issued under the Follett name I would then be caught. Too good for its people. One either had to have money to buy beer off the shelves or else one had to have a good friend among the officials whom one could trust not to denounce one to the Germans. I had neither money nor I guess so I try to hide from jets from the Germans and left my daughters in Paris. For a small town in central France. Here I hid my past carefully and got a post in the German sense of sleep of the French newspapers that the guest star Paul came to my daughter not later than two months after my hiding.
This was in me in 1944. But she doesn't wear fast to tell you where I was. So August stop one small quote with me. What a fright. When getting the summation to leave the twins for Germany again the German chief of the censorship office. Was there enough I could not count on him for help. What was I to do. Ever as a nice South German colleague was our of typist. I told her I was without a ration card and the whole course she kindly helped me out especially with food. And then he commended me to the inspector of the German employment office. What was I to say. I prayed and asked for God's help. White in his NTA home after greeting the German officer
I asked baldly if he was married. Yes. Why quickly I put forward a question Have you any children. How released. Even split I was when he said yes. But why. Then losing control over my tired nerves. I burst into tears telling the whole story and that I wanted to stay with my children. Now that the danger was coming. And pealing to his feelings and his heart. By comparing my friends with his when he got touched a set if he could was sent to perfect or that I got engaged as a translator that I was more useful there and in finally in Darwin. Scoffs at the sector.
Ed d d. My doctor doctors both squashed down from Paris to my place. So we were together and happy again. Apart naturally from some heavy air raids which was god gods helps. We went safely. And as nasty as they were they were welcome to our French hearth feeding liberation coming nearer to our little town was liberated in August 1945. Four hundred Germans the French disease and they cisterns people got after me of course because I had worked for the Germans. My daughter forgot I was on notice. After several several inquisitions.
By the fines which proved my innocence. Indeed I never had a home to my country tying on the contrary always to help my French countrymen as much as possible by defending their cause to the Germans. How often I had helped with double passports in favor of French trades people keep bending the first one had got lost between the French and German authorities and so on and so on. Yes my youngest daughter actually liberation of our little market town was very anxious for her poor and afraid that the resistant people would cut my hair. Oh I did not well east of that and replied No no they wouldn't cut my hair. They only cut a girl's hair. They would either let me off off shoot me.
The meeting of all three of us was not to last long. All I did in September my youngest daughter followed her call saw images life. And went into a convent to become a teaching nun. Though I must confess she is very happy in her vocation so I have to be contented in thought of her. The French Resistance forces. Must not have got to bed reports as soon as an American company came to our little town. I was called and asked to be there for him to please my English. Only school English from some 30 years ago was not very good specially to deal with American accent and language. But all the SAS to follow us amen. Plus captain and Commander. Well there's a good and gallant to me
I tried to be their house Moser and help them as much as possible of course that post meant moving. But what did it matter for me. Well only that the CI DONE IT security one of novitiate the SA Beckett's the soft bone where she got the reward of have talent and hard work in an enemy. In Africa and fight nothing. I was the only woman who spoke company and got quickly very spoiled. My name became plain Lucy my English who was made fun of. I did not mind at all. The old men of the core man that was court. Sometimes after after too much of the good Quinn yok had the intuition that German power to pass when dropped and hidden in the forest next to our headquarters. So one very
cold winter night 3:00 in the morning he phoned that I had to get tried in five minutes that we were to group searching German power to help us. At this new car on the jeep and off we went in high snow and blazing wind but searched in vain. And find nothing at all coming back for Steve ears to blue hurting even and the old woman like fur would I use to wear on the sorties. What Fern the young boys had the next morning asking to see how many power to push the to catch. Did they need you were German or were they checks on gas or anywhere else. I whispered war events we followed for Frontline and when in July 1945 the American company went whom I was very softly.
In August 1945 I took a post as interpreter translator. It was French government in the occupied zone of Germany. The work was interesting so was life there a good time. I often could share with my daughter who came on long and lovely holidays in the Black Forest comfort entertainment for every festivities where employee provided. Good friends and colleagues. When I stopped with a nasty full stop. After three years of this work work it was made out that I had the worst during the occupation of France with Germans so I had to leave my French job at once. I did not want to give any explanation or justification
as they did not want to listen to me. I left for Toulouse again seeking refuge there just as I did after the Serbs for the first world war. Two months of Toulouse Rasul a tough time and she'd at last I got to post as governess in a home in Great Britain. My crowded past seems to come down seems in these hospitable currently. Sometimes I have a nostalgic after a home of my own but rarely to a point of French to go hard chalk. But here I am and I do not regret it or scrape it ends nearly like a fairy tale you see. But just let me tell you before all these talk to 20 and.
That first of all I must apologize to have used so much for first person single. I made my life stories to you that were never actually give the site. Something has gone wrong. Keep courage at birth. All the say is in God and life. You will still find something to help and to give to somebody who is even more helpless and who work then you are. Thank you very much. Signora and as silly guy of Florence Italy is the wife of an official of a food company and the mother of three sons one a professor one a physician and one an engineer. In addition she has a few other full time jobs. She is vice president of the young woman's Christian
Association of Italy and editor of the women's magazine. Here is Milton Mayer Senora Tilly. What is the traditional way of life of women in Italy. How has it been in the past. Traditionally before women in Italy I think it's friendly. I I think now through all the many differences between us and somehow between towns and religious. And I had relieved in many places of my country. I can see that the way the families live. He's very strong. The mother who in our country is desired from woman is respected from men. I think that the Catholic tradition is helping in she said
reverence for family. For example I am not Catholic but I prefer to see a woman who has before her the ideal of the Madonna the Virgin Mary. As we see the Madonna that these other Pew as we said 30 example a woman warder in stede of the many and many famous CAS who had a beautiful body only and not author. No we have not anger violence of divorce in Italy and our families have generally many chillers. Perhaps sometimes also we have too many children. They will give you an example of a young woman of Florence a friend of mine was through last summer which her husband in a poor village of the South and my friend
asked poor peasant woman how many children she had a woman to answer at 15 and the Ben helped me. That means the date's bell has rung five times before then for five days children. She had had in other words 20 children she has her eyes and her heart that this too must truly think also anxious for her she said that the death bell helped her by getting farther away. And my friend asked again How do you live. Weeks to five teen children and a woman answered God willing. They are helping one another and know more about you know that to catch a trout is strictly against birth control. Even so it is a
pre-K teacher who we can see not in Italy in so many families with two or three all portrayed in the know more. But it does not plan it to discuss freely on this matter. Two of us who grew politically down the road on a when quoted weekly It would be necessity that open minded reman should begin counting on his math. Because we have in the south of Italy especially disapproval and family street to too many children. But I have not remarked that the reamer Association have taken over come thing. What is your feeling about the the forbearing of divorce in Italy do you think it has been helpful to the family we sometimes feel in America because our
divorce laws are so easy it is so very easy to get a divorce that that easy divorce has become a very very great danger to family life. Yes I think too easy divorce is a danger. I think sometimes it would be assessed Serry to have a difficulty fast but to have it. But I think the first thing easier in this matter like in the matter of best conference is more to a problem of responsibility a problem of education of the family life love understanding of family life and this you fail as is really well developed in your life family life at least if not the education. I can not say that to tease a perfect family life. I would say that sometimes these love for children for family is too much. Instinctive is not
spirituality. I could see it feel or feel sometimes that the sense of social responsibility of defaming our education really never fails. Yes that is lacking at a little of the sense of responsibility of self responsibility of individuals too. I would lie to the women would be better prepared on Casco the mother who would reach for me is only said very important task for the woman. You mean that the women of Italy traditionally have the great love of family and the home and the children without enough education. Yes I could see that and it is this has this pattern of the life of women in Italy has this pattern been changing during your lifetime are women in any way different now from the way they were.
Perhaps a little difference is especially after this war. I am of the north of Italy and they have always ceded my you to we men you have the family and in the same time busy with the schools already to business but only to day I kind they could see in order to counter it. The young were desired we should and must have times where good and sorcery north the economically independence high economic gain and at least for me a good away to war to be to have more freedom in the mind to let me interrupt senora you say that there is developing in Italy and I think probably in most other places in the western world an increasing amount of economic independence for women. But then this is also dangerous for family life is an ass. Yes because that the most important thing is also here always the spiritual
position or the women the woman and I am not sure that these new freedom is a feeling which a new sense of responsibility and so I think it is always necessity to have a good education for women. What do you mean they have to work and to accept the work and not only to be at home to wait for an husband. But if Don didn't really mean it all they have to understand very deeply what the family life a family duties. It is always a task of education. Which requires a very good we'll I think. Italian women have too much or a bit of birth to obey because it has had the condition of such a church is always to obey and we have not too much to
less all the good what from which a tradition has that we have to prepare more free conscience Italian women want to understand and to look always for and she served for a position of spirits and to look always for spiritual growth near us. Our senior actually one last question if I may ask you very briefly what is the program of the young woman's Christian Association our association IIS 50 years old in Italy. But she's not very bleak. It has homes for us she would answer and also discussion group for it has racked the net fast in more in the Protestant groups. But now especially in his last year and reads my magazine especially we are looking to high five friends. So he but I remain in Priest
position. I hear just the mesas so many. Can I sting women from different backgrounds. Well these women are weak eyes look toward educated better Italian women to freedom to wear a deeper religious life. Independent also but always deeper issues in life. Thank you very much Senor it silly guy. The program you have just heard has been made possible under a grant from the fund for adult education an independent organization established by the Ford Foundation. These programs are prepared and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters in the interests of better international understanding. This program has been introduced by Norman McKee and this is the end AB tape network.
Voices of Europe
Lucy Gable and Ines Zilli-Guy
Producing Organization
National Association of Educational Broadcasters
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
Interviews with Lucy Gable and Ines Zilli-Guy about life for women in Europe.
Series Description
Interviews with noted Europeans on a variety of subjects, conducted by Milton Mayer, American author and broadcaster, lecturer and professor in the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University.
Broadcast Date
Global Affairs
Women--Europe--Social conditions.
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Interviewee: Gable, Lucy
Interviewee: Zilli-Guy, Ines
Interviewer: Mayer, Milton, 1908-1986
Producing Organization: National Association of Educational Broadcasters
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 52-37-30 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:12
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Chicago: “Voices of Europe; Lucy Gable and Ines Zilli-Guy,” 1953-01-01, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 21, 2024,
MLA: “Voices of Europe; Lucy Gable and Ines Zilli-Guy.” 1953-01-01. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 21, 2024. <>.
APA: Voices of Europe; Lucy Gable and Ines Zilli-Guy. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from