Tonight we come to the final session of a twenty ninth annual teaching conference on the Latin Americas. It's been quite a week here on the shores of Lake Ontario a stimulating week with clashes of personalities and exhausting week two with the extra sessions put in to meet the demands of participants for further information. But we can safely say it is not been a boring week. We've discussed nearly every possible aspect of Latin American life but we have not yet really touched upon the crucial point. Why should Canada be interested in the Latin Americas at all. And more particularly should she join the organization of American States on the platform tonight we have Dr. Charles Fenwick of the OAS with AJ knows and Marcel Toussaint. Here is our chairman to introduce them to you. Editor of Maclean's magazine. Blair Fraser. Ladies and gentlemen the people who are to take part in the discussion tonight
are all particularly qualified to do so. Dr. Charles Fenwick has been director of the Department of International Law the Pan American Union since 1947. He has I think one could almost say a lifetime of experience with Latin American affairs. Mr. Knowles lived in Latin America working for the Royal Bank of Canada for 28 years. Professor has been a student not only in Latin America and has recently published a book on Canada and the interim American system. I appear as. A local audience heard a moment or two ago to cast upon these affairs the clear white light of ignorance. My role is that of the typical Canadian in the street who I think in spite of this of having been lightened for the past week on Latin American affairs
could still fairly be described as pretty solidly apathetic on the whole subject. The question of Canada's joining the organization of American States is greeted in this country certainly not with hostility but with resoundingly lack of interest. So the first question that I'd like to put to Dr. Fenwick as we most of us going to the INS I think really don't know very much about the Organization of American States could you tell us could you give us an example of something that the Organization of American States has recently done. Please don't expect too much of this. You're not buying a Cadillac car. You're getting a model. I was going to say a Model T Ford but that wouldn't be very courteous to the Organization of American States. You know getting an organization that is developing from an older one. And don't expect it is
going to control the world all at once. Let's see how it functions. Once upon a time there was a President Roosevelt of the United States a man of varied vigor of character and teeth and determination. And he said I'm tired of this business a designer in the Caribbean and he picked up a big stick and he said I'm going to introduce an international police power. Well there wasn't anything International about it adult was a himself and a real man a man of vigor and he swung his big stick around and restored all right he protected Venezuela against an invasion of those wicked European powers you heard about who'd like to come over and take America. He protected the Dominican Republic to restore order in Haiti and things went well for a while not very long because Latin America didn't like it. Nobody likes to have somebody else who is bigger use a big stick on them. It wasn't until one thousand one hundred and thirty six that we got away from that
policy which Latin America called Intervention and we call man. And so the Monroe Doctrine by making everybody behave so that they be no cause for European coming in that's logical and if there is a designer in the Caribbean and European powers want to come over and collect debts from Venezuela Well the way to do is make you see yourself had been Israel pays all his debts to keep Europe out. It's all very logical of course but unfortunately was doing the right thing and the wrong way. By the U-19 hundred thirty six we've learned our lesson and we agreed at a conference of going to saris that the thing to do under such circumstances was to consult. In other words the United States said I don't want to give up this Monro doctrine if you all were to assume the responsibility to take care of the situations that come up. Well the treaty of 936 is about the weakest you can possibly imagine. But by 1938 we got a little nearer. Then when the walking
aim and our eyes were opened and we saw what had to be done we drew up a regional interim our country to a reciprocal assistance. An attack upon one is an attack on all. That's the principle of collective security an attack upon one is the same principle as in the United Nations and the same principle if you please it was in the old League of Nations that we did not have sense enough to get into. Well let's go on principle connected. I'm sorry Canada guardian and I respect you for it. But we'll come back maybe later. All right. We've adopted a treaty an attack upon one is an attack upon all. When there's a threat to the peace we call our foreign ministers together. Why didn't they let the council in Washington and the Council of ambassadors have the power to do it. Well unfortunately the Council of them best is was too near the United States State Department and might be influenced by it let's call the foreign ministers in the event of a threat to the peace
and they've been called and they're going to meet next Tuesday down in San Jose Costa Rica. Nobody else seems to want to. Yeah let's be honest about it we already have gone way down to Santiago Chile and Chile was brave and bold and said Come on down here that was last summer. But other countries felt a little uncomfortable we don't know what we can do with this business fellow Crew chef makes too much trouble. We don't think we'd like to have you but Costa Rica a brave and bold little state that doesn't have any army but only schoolteachers. More schoolteachers and soldiers is a real story I guess I have to police and said Come on down here we're not afraid. So they're going to meet today on Tuesday that is the Rio Treaty as we call it our reciprocal assistance regional collective security an attack upon one is an attack upon all.
It is not just an attack from outside or is this an organization which can deal with attacks by one member on another. This organization deals with both kinds of attacks any attack by those wicked European powers. We won't name them but I would be met by a dog new zation of American States and a threat to the peace within the organization will also be met. Now US for an example. Yeah I'm going to have a minute more half a minute. Well that Honduras and Nicaragua have been having a ban require long time nobody here from Honduras and Nicaragua. I don't mean to be disagreeable but I'm going to tell you the facts as I see them. Way a long time ago you know one of our troubles in Latin America was that when they won their independence they didn't know quite where the boundaries were and that simply because the boundaries weren't clear under the old Spanish administration and Portuguese and therefore we've had a lot of boundary
disputes Honduras said let's try to Nicaragua Nicaragua said all right all our trade one of them show we go to king of Spain All right let's go to king of Spain because they were recently under him. So they went to the king of Spain and the question now is why the king of Spain looked at the map and said Oh a lot of they fussing about why do I want to go back to old colonial dusty documents just to go be a river of Cocoa would be an awfully nice boundary room was a nice because there's a river you never have any trouble you don't have to state it often so. He said let's have a call call what's the goal the river for a boundary. Well at least on tourists because it gave contours what she was claiming Nicaragua said nonsense. Now you're supposed to follow an homage to award the idea of going to arbitration you accept the award beforehand whatever it be. When they said no no I won't have anything to do with that award to King didn't
give us a real oddball award all he did was to give us a boundary line that he thought would look nice but we're not interested in what looks nice we're interested in the old colonial boundary line and he didn't look up the documents or he would have given that award. All right great. Beginning in 57. What did the Organization of American States do. They call both up to Washington and said stop this shame on you sister states. I don't like calling them sister states I don't like to think of sisters quarreling that way but do speak of sister states you know ever since known sisters to quarreling Maybe so many I am not familiar of that because I've only got sons. All right. Did they in fact settle about as a dad and noted how did I settle it and just I wouldn't want you to quote it but they sent it over to the International Court of Justice at The Hague. Going to cost them a tidy sum. But after all what is a few hundred thousand dollars to getting a settlement. Poor old Supreme Court why they got to do a little back over
documents. Sixty years old full of da still they all they all get a smile from it if they do it themselves. Because what a court will do will appoint masters as they call in a masters examine the documents and the answer will be so-and-so and it will be accepted. Why because the pressure of public opinion of the 21 states has now become very strong. And I'm emphasizing the press through public opinion because you don't have to break heads in a law to fracture a public opinion. Letting you draw the conclusion a little later of what I mean by that. But if it's kind of where to join the organization of American States what exactly would be our involvement what would be we'd be letting ourselves in for. Now Mr Fraser That's an embarrassing question because you're not letting yourselves in for anything. I know why you get so excited over it I don't know. Look here you let yourself in for real trouble. When you signed up to
protect Turkey against the Soviet Union and why you scared about little cost little Cuba. So I don't think it's a matter of being scared. We just really don't know. Well now I can tell you what your obligations are under the Rio Treaty. Your obligations are upon call of a meeting of foreign ministers you send your foreign minister down and he consults obligation is to consult. In the course of consultation obviously you're supposed to do something you're supposed take some measures to stop the trouble that's going on. But those measures are taken after consultation. And if Canada were member she could express her opinion I don't think we ought to spank CASTRO No I don't think you don't take him to the woodpile No. I think we ought to slap his wrist and say bad boy now behave yourself well and stop dealing with the Russians and the Chinese and behave yourself like a good inn for American boy.
But suppose he only obligation that you have. Suppose we don't care how we behave just sighed. Well if you don't care how it behaves you're not interested in law in order to know what I mean is this. Most Canadians think of themselves as members of a North Atlantic community and as you say were even willing to stretch the North Atlantic as far as Turkey but relatively. Relatively few of us actually think of ourselves as part of a hemispheric community wowing the world can you get such an extraordinary idea into your head or promise not to speak. I promise not to speak about Canada's interest that's the kind of dude to decide. I'm only telling you what your obligations would be would be it doing and the obligation is merely to consult me in event of a threat to the peace you have to decide what measures ought to be taken to meet it. Is that an extraordinary obligation to assume after what you've done.
No but wouldn't you think that the nations in the region would be sufficiently equipped to look after their own region I mean are you can do you think that Canada specifically is part of this Latin American South American region and we have a direct concern other than the general concern about peace in this car respect. I think Canadians have always in my view country and wonderful summers that you have the fact that you have no foreign policy no taxes to pay and all that. I always thought I always thought that you had a desire to help maintain law and order in the world if you haven't got any desire to maintain Ananda. I don't believe that public opinion the voice of Canada in the councils of the Organization of American States. But I'm not going down a set I wouldn't want to say the voice of Count would strengthen the public opinion in the hemisphere. Now I believe because I
respect count very highly. If you don't believe it I'd stay out of this thing I wouldn't get into it. Well there are two Canadians here on the platform who unlike me really do know what they're talking about in this field. As I said before they're both most extensive experience in Latin America but they differ. We have found out already that professor thinks Canada should join the organization of American states at once and Mr. knows who is also a man of great experience in the area. Thanks that we should not now. Professor would you tell us why should Canada join the OAS. You know something just a freezer. My wife has been has been asking me to same thing for years and I think I'm more at ease to answer you here frankly. The point is I think that there are many reasons anyway and I just don't know why
people there still do not understand that. Yet frankly we should join should have been understood a long time ago. But the opinion is that there are reasons we are so willing to us to get our hands there was d that there would be military reasons to join us and work with the Inter-American defense board we already have. Boy do you know some kind of born in the United States which is a permanent joint defense board working with the United States and we think that it is a very useful if we could just have this body collaborate very easily in particular was the with the. With the interim the conditions aboard there's no doubt about it. But there are also other reasons besides defense if defense had.
As a result of protecting the continent in a week we should I think in the Keys of emergency in the case of war I think we should presume one united front. Do you know from South America from the South Pole to the North Pole because in the period that we. Are in now I don't think we should take any chance of leaving an open door for the big the big bad world to come in. And either hand. And there are there are political reasons. After all Canada is believe it or not an American state. It's too good to do that and we have responsibilities which are. Which are connected with this geographical position in America and I greet with a kiss and we get it is a splendid affair to
promise to defend Turkey. But I think. But the key in India Atlantic is really stretching the map. And there is also the fact that we do we are an American nation there is no doubt about that. The Providence wish that we were in a better condition of the way seated president presidents would have put us somewhere in you would have been middle Europe where we could enjoy it tremendously. But if we have we have contacts with the that American States and with the United States and I think we should use that the upmost me organisation which has been in existence for more than half a century. Yet I was so I the reason that our economic reasons. And we know you know as well as I do and that the trade would be tremendously increased if we could use the good offices of the Inter-American Economic and Social Council and a
different. If we can finish agencies under the OAS mandate I think also there is a psychological reason which is that. That would contribute to complete Continental unity and it would make it a little easier to get media to have contacts with the United States or with Latin Americans to windsurf exactly the question why is now Canada joining States why do you keep out of the OAS when in fact you are using some of the agencies you have to in some of the conferences but you just don't want to belong to the family. It is really embarrassing to answer that question of sort of you know and I think there are psychological reasons for which we should a third character an American state should act as
an American state. Mr. Nourse What's your rejoinder to that first. When Jim and I said I'd like to say that I find myself in company with two of us a North American a continent's best brokers for a bride for a day or yes day and I want to warn all can agency it but very careful it cannot lead to the only ass alter there are many reasons why I think Canada should not join the or yes but I'll mention St Just not to take too long time. First of all I think that the problems the biggest problems in the world today. I'm not regional problems but global problems. I think that it's not only a few Cubans who should be taken to the woodshed but a lot of people from the Kremlin as well and I think the big problem is while it's a global one and not a regional one. Now the second reason why I think Canada should keep out of the Oil Gas is that Canada
itself considering its tremendous known resources is one of the largest underdeveloped countries on the water and the sad reason why I think Canadian should keep free of this organization is that we are it's because of our incompatibilities with Latin Americans. Now I'm going to argue that we have incompatibilities. And deafen fields first of all in the genetic and political. Secondly in the social and economic and I'd like to warn Canadians that in compatability is no but I'm for divorce in Canada. Well is this your point then Mr knows that. Because whereas the 21 republics no members of the OAS even though some of them may be mutually unfriendly still all share basically similar way of thinking and living that our way
is different. I arguing that our way is entirely different. I said for instance genetically and politically that we are different. Let me explain what I mean. A. How the law here in most of Canada at least is based on the English law which is a law of equity in South America spot as I know the law in every American country is based on the Napoleonic law and then the polio MC Law is one that is based on the letter of the law. That's why we have this conflict just between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Now I think that this has some importance. I also said that we have political incompatibilities. Now let me explain what I mean there. In Canada for instance we say that democracy is something that must start from the grass roots and grow up. This point was very well discussed and treated. They wanted two nights ago whereas in a Latin America the tendency is for democracy to filter from the
top downwards. Now right and that there is to a definite compatibility. And if we sum up all the compatibilities we find that where they have very many. I think that they with their way of life which a Latin America is tending and leading is very different from ours. Dr Fenric and to Sam both want to answer you let me ask you one question you offered 10 manuscript useful said something so extraordinary You said count as a minor key. We couldn't join up with a whole lot of backward democracies. I didn't know Canada was. I didn't know Canada was a monarchy. Oh I knew you had a lovely queen. We all really admire highly. Nobody can speak too well but I never count it was a moniker. I'm on a king means a single rule I understood it to good queen reigned but didn't rule and you had a parliament and that you were after the start to the Westminster completely independent.
Oh really when when did you get to be a monarchy again have you gone back since the Statute of Westminster. Mr. Noyes answers I'd better throw in that everyone has thrown away his script and I am I'm very happy Duran's a doctor friend of sequestering that I accept the correction. Perhaps I should have stated that that Canada has a monarch instead of saying that it is a monarchy but the fact is that we do have a queen and the queen is also Queen of the Falkland Islands. Queen of British I'm Doris queen of British Vienna and she's also a queen of the Federation of the British West Indies. Now let me tell you that the Falcon violence A is under attack by Argentina on a stamp say published in Argentina you find to say that the fountain islands appears on the calm of the claim that it belongs to BAM. Here's a source of conflict in compatability a Doris is under attack to it said there's been no sex going on for a while Dr. Fenwick could tell us but for a tremendous a long time to
my knowledge and a British Guiana too well Dave's dad has been deny MST because of a colonialism. So how can we reconcile that with our status as a monarchy. I succumb to the touch of monarch. You've been patiently waiting here to get a rejoinder and listen in mysterious No was mentioned in compatibility and I agree with him completely and I think he see probably get his idea after seeing and hearing some of the speakers we had here this week. And I certainly agree with him but the incompatibility was among themselves and I thought Barry did against Canada. That's one thing. Second thing you were speaking of little the problems. I agree with that to advantage is one where somebody said that before but don't you know don't you think that
if everybody could care half it someone we have seen French you know with a year to pick up. If everybody could care if it's a local affair the whole of the world would certainly know better and that is true not only in French but it is true. It is true also in language Mr. Fenwick. The authoritative should see into American law. Could you presume quotes you about heard the article of the charter charters I should see both in the UN Charter which deals with local regional affairs and also the article in the charity of the US which says that when there are difficulties among the American states there was difficulties
that's been within the UN in a way it's when there are difficulties this should be settled at the local level before bothering the big powers who have many other things to do for the present time. So I think we should start first with mandate that I should like to answer that I am in full agreement if we can possibly clean up our own backyard splendid. But supposing that someone comes along and then the previous one you're playing it up. We would like to clean up the situation in Cuba but the Russians tell us that if we do attempt to do it rockets on us how can we solve the problem by cleaning our own backyard. But what I'm subject of this interference. Certainly it would be fine if we were free to do it but we're not. That's why I say this is a global problem and not a regional problem. I'm going to do without a thought and yeah I think you called the Russians and I don't. He you you you put yourself on the
international level I don't want I just say let's get together let's separate the world own difficulties and leave the Russians out a few Russians and only other people who are not interested in it. You should be interested in things like that. Well as a Soviet Union have the landing seal in Cuba and Guantanamo Bay for a naval base. Would you be any more comfortable than you now are with Turkey on your hands would you be more comfortable or uncomfortable with the presence of the Soviet Union right now under your new company. It most probably that's precisely why I say this is a global problem I don't think that we in North America enough to to and that and I think that's why this is a matter for United Nations not for a regional organization that has the body of an elephant and only got the legs of a chicken is an eternity. Are you referring to the Republican party and everybody
I refer to you know I am just pleases me down to the ground I responding to. They send you a message. It's which our friend Dr. Frederick So we represent Professor Assad think you have what you want to make one more comment before we ask for questions from the floor. Yes I was just thinking still in the region of the get it even Mr. know this piece of the U.N. I completely agree. I completely know that. I agree partially with him about the U.N. and it's supposed to be a hole in the world but we need to be we do belong to the U.N. for good or for bad I don't know. And that with the present us a tall from joining the organization of American States and discussing with our American friends either you know Americans or Latin American the problems which are typically American we have no
reason to ask the turkey or Japan to interfere or to give his or her opinion in pieces that we can settle the world own problems ourselves. Then why not use our embassies our trade commissioners and all this enormous staff that we have from out of my fire and home we're spending a tremendous sum of money make put them to work and put them down to stop some of these problems and there be several hands up in the audience for several minutes people wanting to get into this argument still and invite a question from here. I I may say first of all that rather folksy approach to this in the metaphors drawn from the farmyard a rather appalled me. This is an extremely serious subject and despite if I may I'd like just to give a personal British point of view because the question of the Commonwealth relationships has been raised in this conviction.
I think perhaps I should put it into focus first of all I didn't think this question would hit the headlines in Britain. It is a poorly domestic Canadian matter and we in Britain are far too concerned at the moment with the fact that we've got about seven minutes warning before and I had a vision. I can say quite categorically that I can see no conflict between Canada's relationship to the Commonwealth and her membership of the Organization of American States. Indeed do I think that from a purely British point of view it might be a considerable advantage for Britain to have an associate in this organization who can bring good influence to bear both on the United States and on Latin America. I can never sum up the gift of I think the situation because for the average Englishman he has
no axe to grind in this matter and looking at it objectively I can see that there are affinity is between Canada and Latin America particularly for example on religious grounds. In the case of Canada and I believe that French Canadian missionaries are very active indeed in certain backward areas in South America. On the other hand I can see that Canada might not wish to associate herself too close with certain Dick Toral regime. Because of the basic in compatibility of these rate regimes and the Canadian democratic tradition. The Latin American states I think would like Canada to counter-balance the USA and the USA would like Canada into counterbalanced the Latin American states. And I'm not sure that you would like to be placed in the position of siding with
one bloc against the other with one neighbor against another. But looking at it more from commercial grounds I can see on the one hand that if Canada does not join the organization of American states she may find herself shut out of a possible war. Markets should let in America and a trading block up on the other hand. As far as I can see it her stake in Latin America is not great and I think it should be stated quite frankly that Joining us will cost her about 50 millions for the Inter-American bank a point which hasn't been given sufficient emphasis in the discussion around the table. And my last point is this. A perhaps as yet Canadians do not know enough about Latin America.
It was done very much to help. But those of us who recall certain difficulties of communication at the beginning of the week realize this is a very grave situation of trying to understand the self and I can only conclude with a kind of rather impertinent recommendation I would say get to know more about Latin America first to Canada in America as frequently as you can. To study Latin American institutions in history and in your university. And when you are quite sure of your facts and not before then make up your own minds Iraq. No no no.
I'm sure many listeners just last night realized was Mr. John Matt bird who spoke to the meeting from the platform last night and I see Mr. Mexico has his hand up with the comment. With the Germans. For once I'm a little bit at a loss for words. I suppose I should start with what I assume might be a Canadian proverb something about separating the wheat from the chaff looking like that. My English is not good enough to know these things. But I think with a lot of serious subject matter a bit of gossip and there are lot of a lot of details which of the rhythm of the discussion which I think are likely going to put you off the track now. I think first of all they have not been a clear explanation here of what is the. Oh yes. Certainly I don't think there has been a clear statement by anybody of what Canada
purposes would be if you join the. Oh yes I was a Latin American. I have no right to any Canadian what they should do it that's entirely a Canadian problem. But I think we should just keep in mind a few points of fact the OAS is a regional organization worked out voluntarily by the countries that belong to it to solve disputes peacefully and also to work out economic and social problems and find solutions to them when they are of common interest and to do it in a very nice friendly fashion. It is not a super thing. It doesn't have more any sovereignty of its own beyond the national sovereignty of the countries. It is not a regional branch of the United Nations. I can read you. I wouldn't do it but I could read. I have it right here the articles of the UN Charter which do not say anything about that yet. If any country has the right to take
any problem into the United Nations directly if it wishes to but the charter does provide to encourage regional solution of this field before taken to the UN I think that's a very important part. No question to keep in mind also on economic and social matters. Oh yes. Is not the only agency that operates on Latin American problems there are UN agencies and there are word agencies that tell you and many others and I think the interesting thing to note is that they all work in close consultation with each other and cooperate in all the programs and problems so on. Now I don't suppose going to expect to have any border disputes with any Latin American countries I think that's it. Particular question but kind of that I have noticed does participate and very generously indeed in many programs of improvement for the underdeveloped world. I have in mind a Colombo Plan I have in mind from the figures that I read before
giving me this afternoon which says that Canada has given four and a half billion dollars of financial assistance to other countries in the war on a lot of that has gone for reconstruction and lot for technical assistance of various kinds and so on. Now supposing that God and I wished to have a greater participation in the economic and social improvements of Latin America to help in many ways I think there are many ways open to Ghana to do it and not exclusively. Oh yes I wouldn't just anything for that somebody if they did hear that. A trading bloc of Latin America would leave Canada out in the cold. It has nothing to do with the trading arrangements are a range derived by sovereign countries with or without the US and makes no difference. These are acts of sovereignty and
Canada can work out her trade arrangements financial and everything else with the Latin American countries. By all the various means available. What I've tried to think with the Germans is that once we know the limitations of the oh yes and I don't want to belittle anything you have done have done very good work indeed. But we also realize that there is a broader picture a global picture of one of the speakers said United Nations and many other agencies and that got us interested in the developed world is world wide I would say. At least that's what I have assumed from listening to speeches of your delegates and statement. If that is the purpose to help in the economic and social improvement has opened a whole series of possibilities in order to reach that kind of solution. Thank you very much. Can I take one of the questions from the back.
I should like to ask first and also he feels that Canada should withdraw from Natal. No indeed I do not I think that a candidate should definitely remain in Natal. I strongly advocate Canadian membership in NATO but I see no reason for the OS situation. You are putting a question or as you know it and answering this through Queens. Oh god this is preposterous act and I started to believe that we really have incompatibilities because I think you know to be dissing language. Mr. Rick when he said that he has nothing to. Her discreet precise reasons why you can and should join the OS if I thought I had given them a few minutes ago. But I'll give him a chance. I thought again if you joined us you know to to complete the National League the continental high media meet should.
You increase the political and diplomatic relations with. Perfect then if it's possible. Should also. Increase the trade using the he the agencies which already exist. They're using the agencies and that is true of the other American countries. 21 of them I wonder where you get when the B to indicate of Canada. And there is another thing or so he says he hasn't gotten credit in the charter but I had the charter of the U.N. article 52 paragraph do I quote. He did say about the region in the arrangements. If the members of the United Nations entering into such a arrangements that are regional arrangements entering into such Our arrangements are constituting such be agencies shall make every effort to achieve a
pacifist settlement of local disputes through such regional arrangements or by such a regional agencies as before and I underlined it in red before referring then to the Security Council. That's in the charter. So I think it means that when there are regional arrangements regional going to is Asians the members should first go to those agencies before going to the UN. And if you have read the papers recently maybe you are too busy for that. But there was a case recently when the country in that in America went to the UN and was sent back to the US. It was a question of justice. Yes it's a chairman as a lawyer I cannot let pass without explaining inserting arguments which in no way are convincing me to not discuss the arguments which are irrevocable. First thank you say very certain compatibilities souls
incompatibility that X you think is mind are no longer so I am going to explain it quite. First of all using the same initial like a sister like a like a Canada there are two different systems of legal systems. Dear Rob among a lot with you prevailing to provide the correct and the Anglo-Saxon law in director probably is Switzerland. We have different systems in other countries too. Circling in the community of nations. There is only one rule in international law the international rule. United Nations composed of more than 83 members. I wold come from different traditions different religion different system a legal system and all of them by the principle of law. The so-called community donation means respect for international law and international law. Or that this is the way to live together with nations in the same way that we're doing in Asia. We have to strive for. 15:13 wrote a thing or the system for the same I think that
preserved my kind of right. If you are right we can not touch it. What kind of guy came out of a second world war as a nation. Why can't we think of the company composed of 30 million people with possibilities to market with the possibility of nation to corporate America representing the United Nations agencies working effectively anymore the preamble of the chart that we can they can see that the first words they say are living together in a way to cooperate to put it in our program. Thank you very much.
History has rejoined the German I think we have to get a few facts straight. I also had the text of the UN Charter for me here but I didn't read it. That same article that I missed miss your other son has quoted also said that the end of this article in Norway in FERS application of Article 34 and 35 of the UN Charter which give the right to any member of the UN to bring any dispute or any situation of the nature of the and so on in the article of the Security Council. So you see there is there can be a policy of trying to get disputes worked out regionally but there are the right always to go to the UN. I'm getting an important point of fact to keep in mind I'm not a lawyer and I kind of I think you need to look I think you Professor Lewis are really making the same point. I think I saw Mr. Cardoso signed up there.
Well Mr. Chairman. There's no doubt that from the Latin America point of view it would be very useful for Canada to enter the oil yes. But I have been trying to put myself in the Canadian point of view as a mental exercise. And there are a great number of arguments pro and con they have been sorely examined this whole week. Mr. Knowles pointed some of them and I won't repeat them. I will some arguments can like. Canada is a member of the English words that Canada has a series of internal problems like unemployment like a limited resource as well as they have been very well examined. And they are very respectable. We might maybe go a little further in the problem and it might be that the problem is that we both
Latin America and Canada belong to the same sort of civilization. The sources were different in Latin America. It was Spanish and Portugal and France in the case of a T. But as a source is the same although differences in sauces and Latin America today. It seems as someone else is looking to the continent. And the cause of all of this unrest is based on a need to give better conditions to Latin America. We are doing a lot in this sense. But I'm a lot more has to be done and Canadian participation can help a lot. There is also the commercial side. It has already been pointed out here during the conference that once
a region a country and a region industrialized commerce with another industrialized country in this case Canada tends to augment. What's a wrist is a difference in the composition of commas. But there is definitely a movement towards Augmentin as a connoisseur. This would be very useful to Canada. Well the only thing I can say is that as it has already been said it is for Canadians to decide to examine the problems and decide. But maybe they can be put in this way. There are true a series of present problems in Canada which make Canada hesitate to enter the OAS. But there are also it was a projection of this problems in the future. We must always see it as a future and more important than these present problems is a common heritage was have. Maybe Canadians can put in.
In a scale in one side the present problems in the other. The projection in the future and decide if participating are the OAS is not a great investment in the future of Canada. Thank you for financing. A visitor from Trinidad with his hand up there at that I think would like to ask a question. Mr. Chairman. If a striking resemblance to the premier of Jamaica and other factors prompt me to ask a question in fact to return from the realm of commentating at the query from the general to the specific notice in the library that most of the material on Guatemala has to do with the billies question and I should like to ask the panel in general but
in particular what would be the Canadian position. Assuming of course that you join or asked to the claim of Guatemala on the territory of Billie's. Otherwise known to us as British Honduras. Sorry man I would be delighted to answer the question if I were with a friend. But frankly I am absolutely no position to make an estate admin and I have the impression that the D government would take it out of the fray and give in to night to make any take any decision and 9. But on the other hand there's one thing you would like since I can speak now is one thing I would like to see that has been one which action that has been raised during the week since we are Mr. Fenwick with us tonight they were they came to confirm what they said. I mean come through it is that very often it has been told that if Canada joined the OAS we would have to take
part in our the border disputes in Latin America and I was under the impression and they still believe that there are two different treaties which the Rio Treaty which deals with those conflicts and the Organization of American States which is the general framework of the affair and we could easily in the end we can cut it means it's not true. We can't I think we can join the OAS without joining so immediately your treaty which as your continental security are we going signed the Rio Treaty with our joining the OAS is another thing we. There is a questionnaire here and I think perhaps Mr. Chairman and I we've all been talking about this problem of the Organization of American States since the beginning of the week and many of us have pushed the controversy from one side to the other. And I think it's been brought out very clearly here tonight that the American
OAS is a regional organization with a similar range with and to the United Nations and in no way is in conflict with those of the United Nations. And in fact it seems to compliment the aims of the United Nations. Now whether Canada or not should join this organization is really a case of whether Canada feels they can contribute to this regional organization in the same way as a counter has felt that she will contribute she is contributing to the United Nations. Now I'd like to see the tables turned tonight and we have in the past all week been asking the members of the panel questions and I would like to see the chairman tonight ask the members of the audience this question How many Canadians in the audience are in favor now having discussed this problem all week in favor of joining the OAS. And how many are in favor of not joining. Should we take a voice vote those in favor please say aye. Are there any names I should say the
eyes have it on these. The strength of the reply. It'll take too long to count but there is one question here that we still have time for. I think sir before the question is put to a vote some discussion should take place. Personally I really don't feel I'm rather inclined to agree with Victor or Katie that we haven't really learned just what this thing is. I personally would like to know if I were to join the OAS. What it is I am committing myself for. For example would Canada and this questions arise purely through ignorance I assure you. Would Canada be committing itself in any way to participation in a hemisphere UN type of force to enforce its decisions. Things of that sort these are questions I think Canadians would want to know before they committed themselves. I think that's a question for Dr. Fenwick. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I didn't rest myself only.
And there we leave the concluding session of the twenty ninth annual conference. Tonight's speakers were Dr. Charles Fenwick Director Department of legal affairs Pan American Union. A.J. Knowles writer and broadcaster and Marcel resound of Ottawa the conference is organized jointly by the Canadian Institute on public affairs and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and to round up the week's discussion here is Michael Mackenzie chairman of the program committee of the conference. For a minute I should like to talk about why we held a conference in Latin Americas and what we hope has been achieved. We feel that it is useful to give Canadians an opportunity to meet another culture another tradition. It's good for us to try to listen to others as they tell us their views about themselves about us and about the world. This isn't easy. We seem to have an almost irresistible urge to make our guests see their problems from our perspective. Perhaps the not so original scent of our North American Pride is that we cannot avoid trying to
impose our own image on others. For example there's been a lot of talk here this week about the need to industrialize Latin American countries so they may develop standards of living that will go some way to realizing the rising expectations of their peoples. We tend to see this as a technique for the development of stable prosperous democratic Latin American countries more or less according to our ideas of stability prosperity and democracy. It is extremely difficult for us to see that they must develop standards and conditions of life that are theirs that spring from the texture of their own history and sense of the order of things. Another example and this was a personal one for me. We try to run each evening and morning session in a way which we think will get good free discussion of important issues. On the whole over the years our procedures that work pretty well. But this week we've had to realize that even in this what to us are logical matters of procedure where for Latin Americans attempts to make them adjust to us.
Fortunately our guests rebelled. They made us see that they cannot speak to us freely if we stick rigidly to our own rules. And in this they have done us a great service where they have forced me and my colleagues to re-examine the validity of our traditional way of doing things. What we have done here is to exam and to be shown our images the image we have of Canada's role in history as against the image we project to the Latin Americas. We Canadians like to think of ourselves as playing a constructive role in world affairs. We like to be on the side of the angels in the history which is thus far reserved the role of gods or fallen gods to mighty nations. We tend to be awfully smug about our role as angels. We have begun to understand here this week that perhaps we can't get away with it that as events and communications in the modern world conquered physical and political distances for Latin American eyes we are being drawn out of the misty remote north to be examined in the piercing light of the southern sun. We have been told bluntly that it becomes harder and harder to justify our almost total ignorance and lack of interest
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