Kansas Governor's Debate: The Race Is On

The. Funding for this program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and bi annual financial support from viewers like you. Good evening I'm Tracy Townsend and we'd like to welcome you to the special live debate. This will feature candidates running for governor in the state of Kansas in alphabetical order. They are. Incumbent Bill Graves representing the Republican Party from the Reform Party. Darrell King. Representing the taxpayer party Kirk Poovey and Democrat Tom Sawyer joining me on the panel this evening to question the candidates. Steve Kresge the political reporter from the Kansas City Star. And Becky Kaiser from radio stations K.J. LS take a cue why KFI acts in Hays Kansas.

He will answer questions this evening that were submitted to Casey Petey's special website from voters across the state. This broadcast is a co-production of Casey P.T. and Johnson County Community College and is being distributed to public television and radio stations throughout Kansas as a cooperative project of the Kansas Public Broadcasting council member stations. Just a few moments ago candidates drew straws to determine their speaking order. And before those questions begin we will have opening remarks from each candidate and we will begin tonight with candidate a Bill Graves. Tracy thank you very much thanks for the folks who braved the storm to join us tonight. It's been a great honor for me to have the pleasure of serving not only as governor for the last four years but the eight years prior to that as the secretary of state of Kansas Lynne and I and now Katie are thoroughly enjoying our service to the people of the state and we obviously hope to continue and ask would ask for your support. We've worked very hard in the first four years of working to control the size of state government but

try not to do so in a manner that impedes the delivery of critical public services to the people of our state. We've worked very diligently on cutting taxes but we've tried to do so in a manner that's fair and provides everyone with some benefit of the great economic stability that we've had in our state and probably the thing that I'm most proud of is that I've worked hard surround myself with good people and they truly do make a difference. Most notably my lieutenant governor Gary Scherer who also serves as the secretary of commerce and housing in the future we are very committed to the public education system and system and believe in it's adequate funding. Very committed to the restructuring of higher education governance in our state working very diligently to add to our already 53 percent reduction of property taxes on vehicles and working on transportation infrastructure. Thank you Mr. Graves and now we will hear from Court TV. Thank you for me for providing this forum so we can debate and let the public know the views of the different candidates for governor have. How many times is left just to the two parties to debate. And in reality and on most of the issues

covered Bill Graves and Tom Sawyer are very much along the same lines in their views beliefs. I believe government pride primary duty is to protect life and that's to protect life not only of the elderly and the handicapped and the disadvantaged but also the unborn. If we look at the U.S. Constitution the 5th Amendment states No person shall be deprived of life liberty or property without due process of law. The Kansas Constitution states another Kansas bill of rights. All men are possessed of equal and enable natural rights among which are life and liberty. Both the US Constitution the Kansas Constitution for playing the right to life to everyone not just to the privileged privileged few. And so is definitely one thing that is very important to our party and to me as a candidate and the primary responsibility of government. I also believe that we need to reform the public schools. There's a lot of people looking towards Goals 2000 and all those school work things I think we need to go back to local school.

Thank you Mr. Putin. Well now hear from candidate C. Darrell King thank you very much for inviting me to your forum. I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. Every election year Democrats or Republican politicians promise lower taxes smaller government and more freedom for all Americans after they are elected. It's the opposite. More taxes more about bigger government and more laws to restrict our fit. Ask yourself Do I have more freedom and do I pay less taxes than I did five years ago. Right now today in Kansas there's five major ongoing crisis a crisis in agriculture. Low bankrupt prices for farm goods. A crisis in education a lack of learning and discipline. A crisis in transportation. We're piling grain on the ground like a third world country. A crisis in taxes property valuations are rising faster than mill levees are being lowered a crisis in leadership. Governor Graves has abdicated his role as leader and turned his responsibilities over to commissions. I don't have a glib tongue and a half dozen speechwriters

and a debate coach. But but I'm honest with good common sense and I'll brush the ills of Kansas. Thank you. We will now move to our first question for the evening. I'm sorry. We would like to get a candidate so I have I apologize. It's certainly a pleasure to be here tonight I'd like to thank the sponsors and all of you who are listening and watching tonight. I'm running for governor because I'm optimistic about the future of Kansas. I believe we have an opportunity to improve the quality of life for all Kansas in order to do that we need a leader who is willing to offer bold new ideas to move this state forward. I want to make the state better for all of us. I want to pass a star scholarship program that will make it easier for working families to send their kids to college. I want to vibe real to actually the families to really feel growing up in a family of seven my parents had to work hard to make ends meet. I support the elimination of the sales tax on food. That's the single tax cut that would benefit every Kansan struggling working families and senior citizens would benefit the most. Kansas deserve a governor who will work hard and will take advantage of this national prosperity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans.

Today I will offer some good commonsense ideas that will expand opportunity promote fairness and demand responsibility. I'm no stranger to hard work. I'm Tom Sawyer and I want to be your governor. Thank you Mr. SAWYER. Now we will move to our first question and this evening it comes from Steve Preston at the Politico at the Kansas City Star. And a question does occur this are probably one of Tom Sawyer's key proposals in this campaign is to reduce the size of classrooms the number of students the 17 in the lower grades. He points to studies that he says show that students perform better in a smaller classroom like that. What do you think of that idea and is that the way for Kansas to go. Well I think he's correct in that the smaller classrooms of students do provide they get better education and that many times they are going to show improvements. The real problem I have with Tom's suggestion is that the state governor is going to dictate this. I don't think the state government has any business dictating this. If the local school boards

want to do that I think that's fine that's up to them. That's their responsibility when you get away from federal control and state control and get back down to local school boards and let them decide what's best for their own local students. Candidate C as governor excuse me. We're going to roll on. As governor I will call and all responsible people for preparing our children with the basic skills necessary for life and give them six months to address the cause of why our children's math science and English scores continue to plummet. I would demand now I would demand a return to basics. A change from a social experiment back to an educational experience with discipline. So teachers can teach what I call an State Board of Education. The regents school to ministers and teachers Representatives if necessary I call them private schools and home schoolers to teach Candace how to teach. Thank you. Now we will hear from Tom Sawyer.

Obviously I think it's a good idea since it's my idea but I believe the state of Kansas should set a goal a goal that every child can sleep a third grade down to read write do basic math skills at third grade level. We can achieve that goal. Those children's chance of succeeding in school and succeed in life are very good and the best ways to do that is to reduce class sizes the early grades. That's why I proposed a plan that would give incentive the local school districts reduce class sizes it's not a mandate for school districts to get given extra money to hire the additional teachers and build the extra classroom space it would take to reduce class sizes. It's one of most important things we can do to achieve that goal. The second thing that I would do is also start some very intensive adult mentoring programs where we have parents and grandparents volunteer their time to go into the public schools and help those kids that are falling behind so that kids can stay on the right track so that our kids are learning at school that they get the basics down and learn how to read write do basic math skills. Mr. Graves smaller classes are certainly something that Kansans of us attempted to accomplish over the years and we have an average class size ranging between 8 in our small US District to thirty two and one of our schools in Wichita. The average is currently

17. I believe we should work towards empowering schools financially to be able to make their decisions about what size class is best works for them. I don't believe the state should or should require them to do that. I think it is important to remember that along with a mandate from the state that there be smaller classroom sizes and in effect implies that you must also find additional class space which is also a financial burden for many many districts. I think also one thing we have to be cautious of is remembering that many districts have already figured out how to effectively have smaller classroom sizes and in some ways to now reward those who have chosen not to for whatever reason at the expense of those who have figured out how to get it done to me seems somewhat unfair. And I must say from from my experience with a legislature is not likely to be something that those who already have a classroom size at 17 or lower are going to very willingly go along with. We will allow at little two minute time here for any rebuttal. Yes I'd like to point out that my proposal that we introduced last session was an incentive for

school districts provided extra money for those districts that reduce class sizes but it also provided extra money for those who've already done it so why not penalize interest rates have already reduced class sizes rewarding those districts of our to reduce class sizes and encouraging those who haven't already. Because I believe reducing class size is one the best things we can do to improve education in kindergarten first second and third grade. I believe that the best thing that you can do to help education is to give the teachers control their classroom and get the backing of their administration and give local control back to those people the school boards let them decide what class sizes they want for their children not have dictates like Goals 2000 in school to work come down from the federal government then being dictated from the state government. We need to get back to local control. Then they can decide if 17 is the magic number or maybe eight is the magic number. And I would only comment that we have worked very diligently the last four years to try to enhance based budget per pupil at risk weighting factors correlation weighting factors money for special it to empower districts financially to make these kinds of decisions and I would continue to attempt to do that in the next four years.

I believe we should have smaller less children in classrooms. I also think there's a lot of courses that are subject that kids are allowed to take to help them slide through school. And it doesn't really contribute to their livelihood or the way they're going to live their life. I think if we eliminate those eliminate those courses that would free up teachers and classroom space and money to help smaller classes. Well now move to our next question which comes from Hayes Reporter Becky Kaiser and we will have candidate Darrell King answer first. Mr. King I'd like to start this evening by talking about rural transportation especially in western Kansas where the spaces are wide open. There has of course been some opportunity for communities and for citizens to comment about their needs throughout the state. But in the western part of the state there is a real concern about the status of municipal airports as well as across the rest of Kansas and also the condition of many of our roads and highways which are much needed to get from town to town out there. If you're elected governor what do you see as some of the biggest concerns for the transportation needs in the western half of the state. And how would

that be financed. Well. Governor Graves has created this by promoting to railroad mergers that eliminated competition and responsibility for service. As governor I will not allow a great I'm a lot monopolies to return to a transportation system to third world status. I will call the railroad and grain cocktails and demand prompt service to shippers or make them wish they had never laid track across Kansas as governor up in last night's national spotlight on them. I'll also set up an 800 number line for governors and governor's office so the farmers can call and report any problems. I would instruct the Department of Transportation to do a safety analysis of wrecks and death. This would be a basis for priority in highway construction rather than the past managed of spending tens of millions of dollars to feather that Senate President Dick Bond's financial NASCAR NASCAR. Now we'll hear from tonsil. I strongly support a new transportation program it needs to be comprehensive it needs to include real airports as well as highways needs include rail transportation I need to be a comprehensive plan.

I also think to get it passed is going to take leadership from the governor the governor is moving to be active to get it passed the last highway plan was introduced in 1907 and it took till 1989 to get it passed. So we need a governor willing to work hard and involve the legislature to make it happen and I intend to do that if I'm elected governor I will sit down the legislative leadership wide after the election try started start hammering out a new highway kind of we can get passed during the next session. Thank you. Now we will hear from Bill Graves. I'm Becky as you know we have had a taskforce it's had a number of very productive meetings and I'm confident we're going to have a comprehensive plan that what is yet to be determined is you know the scope of the plan and how the funding will occur. We've obviously had a lot of success as a result of the eight year comprehensive plan passed under Governor Governor Hayden's leadership. I obviously want to continue the highway and bridge upgrades and replacement those are critically important. But I think in the rule area one of the things we've heard a lot from is our seniors who depend upon grants and sort of state and federal or state subsidies provide Van's ways for them to get to

senior centers for health care services. And I think one of the things we heard a great deal from in our in our hearings around the state was that they would like to have that program enhanced. And I think that it will be. And relative to airports the state of Kansas has done a very poor job of supplementing local units of government in their needs for resurfacing and upgrading airports and with for a very small amount of money in the whole context of billions of dollars transportation money for probably 30 or 40 million dollars we can do a great deal for our real airports. Your thoughts Mr. Povey. Governor Graves is right he does have a task force out there running across a stage called transportation 2000 committee and they are looking at what needs to be done to further improve our our infrastructure and our highways. I think that is important. One thing out there that is being buried apparently is a fact that along with that plan is a is the plan to increase taxes to fund them. And I might point out there was been 100 million dollars a year right now to improve our highways and that's going to continue to be funded. And we also through a large pork barrel project that was put through the federal government on a highway plan

virtually everybody everywhere in every state got lots of money. Kansas is going to get 1.8 billion dollars over the next six years for highway construction that comes up to be three hundred five million dollars every year in addition over the 900 million dollars I think we can improve more of what we've got right now. Or we could actually stay at the same level 900 million and we could actually cut taxes to to the Kansas by 300 million dollars. So I think that we definitely to do it especially out in Garden City Dodge City areas where they've got much increased industry and the transportation is not as good as it needs to be there are lots of areas that do need increased transportation. Concerns have concerns. Thank you and now gentlemen your opportunity for rebuttal. I don't feel the need to raise taxes to pay for new roads that I think we need to quit resurfacing roads that don't need to be starkest. Another thing if you'll sit and watch any highway project most of the time you have five people working and five people standing watching. We need to stop that by fining tummies that don't get to the road projects not on time and

rewarding companies that do finish on time. I would also make it a top priority to spend any savings on to repair or fix a Kansas most dangerous roads. I would only add that the fact that the federal government has has through the reauthorization of surface transportation given us an addict three hundred six million dollars a year for six years. I'd like to point out that if you can extrapolate that into an eight year sum which you would hope would be extended in year seven and eight that's two point four billion dollars. My belief is that that federal money in addition to state dollars that are available will create a fairly substantial pool. Let's just say it's in the 3 billion dollar range. I think until we do an assessment of our needs and we get a sense of what the Kansas legislature will bite off it is premature to suggest we will or we won't raise taxes. And what we may want to fund I think we're going to have another three billion dollar plus plan. I think we can afford it without a tax increase. I just like to point out we could time it was federal dollars were getting a three hundred six million a year but to use those we have to have matching state dollars so we have to put a substantial amount of state money just to use the federal dollars.

So I think we want to be honest with the taxpayers of our time on a very large comprehensive highway plan that includes rural airports that includes senior transportation includes all these things then odds are pretty good they'll be some type of tax increase and then my belief is I'll be using related tax increases like gas taxes and those kinds of things. But I do not believe will be very frank with voters we can tell them they can have a very comprehensive plan we go across the state and get all these needs. And there probably won't be a tax increase I think that we need to be frank and honest with people. So I want 10 seconds. I would I would say that we have to say no we're not going to go on a tax increase we're going to do with existing monies and the federal monies that are coming to us it can be done. It should be done. Right well now move on to our next question which comes from a visitor to the KC Democracy Project website and the viewer asks Are tax cuts justified if they result in cuts or elimination of important programs. And the first candidate to answer this question will be Tom Sawyer.

I think we need to provide a balance between tax cuts and programs and I think it's important we make education government education be our top priority. But we need to set that goal that every child in Kansas of the 3rd grade don't read right into basic math skills. I think we need to make sure we fund our schools. That's got to be the top priority. I don't believe we need that we should cut taxes if it means cutting education. I do believe though that tax cuts ought to be a priority one to be fair tax cuts tax cuts that are geared towards working families we'll tax relief like a limitation a sales tax on food. That's a tax cut will benefit every single solitary Kansan for their car tax cuts those are the kind of tax cuts we need when we do cut taxes. We've got to make sure we have our priorities straight. We need to make sure that education is our top priority. Now we work on ways to improve our schools first and once we do those things we can take a look at what money is available for tax cuts. OK. Now we will hear from Bill Graves. Well I think the the the simple answer is No. Tax cuts can be justified if they do result in cuts in BASIC programs Fortunately that hasn't been the case in Kansas in fact the base budget over the last four years has seen what I think is a responsible amount

of growth probably in the neighborhood of. Between 2 and 4 percent each year keeping in mind a great deal of the growth in the state budget has been attributable to our attempts to buy down the property tax a uniform levy for schools. I think we push the envelope hard and far in the last session. Two hundred fifty million dollars I think we're going to have to slow down a little bit and assess where we are as we move into the next legislative session. Clearly education we put about one hundred twenty million dollars of new funding into it in addition to the property tax relief money. We have a number of issues facing us now in terms of manpower in the areas of monitoring nursing homes confined feeding operations food processing restaurants there's all kinds of areas where Kansans like tax cuts and the like budgets that are responsible but they also like to understand that they are getting a level of service that has they have some comfort level with that is responding to their needs. And I think we may have reached the point for that debate. We look now to carp Well I definitely would have to agree education is very

important. But the thing that you know when we talk about putting more money into education and yet we talk about state money and federal money. Because we have a crisis in education four years ago before the state the federal government got involved so heavily when it's on the local level we didn't have that crisis in education we provide good students that were the tops in the world that did great. Maybe we should look and say Whoops maybe we screwed up when we left the local level control. And I think we have to say no we don't have to cut essential funds and still have money to cut taxes there's plenty of room to cut taxes. We just need to look closely where those are many services that are provided by the state. Used to be done on a local level. And they many times are much better done at the local level where local people know those concerns and the needs of those people there in their community and can better serve them there in their local communities think in the state or the federal government. And that's one thing we need to go back to is more of the constitutional government that we used to have. Thank you and now they're OK.

Bill Graves and Tom Sawyer both claim they cut taxes. Well that frog loan hop they passed and signed the largest state budget in Kansas hundred thirty seven year history over eight billion dollars. But the answer to your question is no we don't have to cut important programs and to lower taxes. As governor I would cut the budget by 2 percent a year for the next eight years. I will present a plan that will eliminate all property tax. I will do this without cutting any important programs. Thank you and now you have an opportunity for rebuttal the title of two minutes. I would only say again I think that in my experience in state government both as a secular state as a governor you see the pendulum sort of swing back and forth and I believe that right now the legislature is looking at a number of programs and we're asking ourselves all we are we providing an adequate amount of funding whether it's for personnel for our data processing programs whatever it might be. Obviously there's an oversight responsibility to our actions in the administrative branch but but I think right now there are a number of areas where we're going to look hard and see if we haven't pushed the envelope too far in restricting state services to our citizens or anyone else.

You know right now we are in a period in national prosperity and we need to take advantage of that and one of the things this allows us to do we have a record budget surplus last year and that now is to cut taxes as well as fund programs. I believe one of missed opportunities the last session was eliminate the sales tax on food. As the governor mentioned we cut taxes 250 million dollars last session a net gross of three hundred thirty million dollars a year each year thereafter for two hundred thirteen million dollars for two hundred thirteen million dollars. We could totally eliminate the sales tax on food. Now that's a tax cut that would benefit every single solitary Kansan. We all we in particular would have benefits struggling working families and senior citizens the most. And those are the kind of tax cuts we need. I think we can look to other areas. You know I remember when they came up with the welfare program changing it and says Oh my gosh when have these people are going to be in such terrible straits because the government is not funding all these people on welfare. I just read a story just the other day which said that these people have worked they found jobs and what they have found is that they're actually making more on an hourly rate than what they expected that they're going to make. And so we have to realize that there is potential to reduce what the state is is

spending money on and put it back to a local level and give the power back to the peoples of the people can determine what's best needed in their communities and what works best for them for those people there. Take question it's much state money and bureaucratic bureaucratic stuff and turn it back to the local communities where they can work better with the local people. We have about 30 seconds left in rebuttal here and my only comment would be that every year when I brought in a budget the conservative Kansas legislature has managed to spend more than I have proposed by here in. And it's one thing to talk about it it's another thing when you get in the legislative process to get people to agree to to actually cut a budget or to not provide for some growth into what people believe are fundamental basic government services. They're all trying to get re-elected. Thank you I'll now move on to our next question which comes from Steve Kreskin and goes first to Bill Graves. Governor as you know the biggest criticism that's been lodged against you during the primary and also during the general election campaign is the sense that you've been a status quo type of governor.

Few new initiatives few daring proposals take a whack at that why is that not a fair criticism of your first term. Well I think Steve you know have we not done a spectacular Grand Slam kind of program I don't know maybe not but I happen to think after three years in the previous administration of no enhancement based budget for people the kind of support you've seen for public education is a pretty solid record that I'm proud of. We've cut taxes every year for four years that's never happened in the history of this state. And as you know it's sort of having a multiplier effect over multiple years but it's billions of dollars in terms of what Kansans don't pay the state government some of the smaller things. One hundred seventy million dollars to repair classrooms of our region's universities and make them accessible in terms of 88 a safe in terms of fire. I mean that's critically important to higher education. We've been neglecting our park system for 30 years for the first time we got 10 million dollars to go in and rebuild the infrastructure of our state parks. The fact that I was the first governor maybe in history that

that actually used a lieutenant governor for Sheila from a sector of administration and now here each year as secretary of commerce and housing. The record may not have that kind of you know one time you know magnificent kind of effect but it's been very solid very stable government and I think Kansans have responded to it. And now we will hear from Kirk movie. Well I think Bill's done a good job in managing the government. I said four years ago when I ran in a Republican primary against him that he would make a good manager. I think the referral that was alluded to was the fact that the bill doesn't claim to have a lot of the vision for Kansas which is where we should go and that's one thing that I feel that I have that I can offer is of a vision as to where I feel that Kansas needs to be headed. I feel that economically we may be headed in a good direction even though I think fundamentally there's a lot of weakness in that economy and also in the world economy which is coming to bear upon is very quickly what I think we need to look at is. If you look at our social structure our moral structure we are on the verge of collapse in the United

States and also in Kansas we need to work to lead in a direction to rebuild that and build it back up and the economy will fall on its own. Because if the economy is good and your son or daughter gets murdered what good is the economy. Let's go with getting back on track the way we need to be going and the economy will follow along. You're a goddess either way. All right. Thank you Mr. King. Don't think of say as Bill says he's cut taxes for the last four years. And that may be true but nevertheless the property values keep going up. So it has a reverse effect. I had a friend call me the other night that said his property had increased the property value has increased 100 percent from last year. So he's paying a lot more taxes. OK and now the fourth candidate Tom Sawyer. Yeah if you look at what's happened the last four years the agenda's been legislatively driven you to govern mentions of tax cuts in the legislature that drove those tax cuts I think the problem with Bill Graham the only

criticism really had him of the last four years is the fact that he has been a standstill gallery hasn't gotten involved enough he hasn't offered bold new ideas. And one approach to national prosperity right now this is our opportunity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans. You can't improve things when a recession and recession are just trying to keep your head above water. This is our opportunity to make things better and we need a governor who be a leader who has some vision will move the state forward and be willing to improve education by setting a goal that every child in Kansas leave a third grade girl to read write and do basic math skills. Governor we want to use our lobby dollars for college scholarships to make it easier for Kansas to send their kids to college. A governor would be willing to provide real tax relief like elimination of the sales tax on food. The governor we were going to pay our debts off now in the good times when the bad times do come we don't have to raise taxes or cut programs we need to govern with some vision and that's why I think the governor has been criticized for being a standstill governor because he hasn't had that vision and now two minutes time for rebuttal. Well obviously since it's three on one. You know I don't we encourage people that take this charge very seriously to go read the four state of the states that we've presented in

and see what we've asked for in those in the state of the state messages and what's been accomplished. And I would say to Darrell let's keep in mind property tax is the number one consumer of property taxes as county government the number two consumer of property taxes the city government the number three consumer property taxes is local school district making capital improvement investments or whatever the state of Kansas by virtue of eliminating for 20 25 30 35 20 mils. We've we're one of the smaller consumers of property tax dollars. I agree we need to do something about property taxes but that but the issue is not one where we're the biggest the state is the burden the people that are depending upon property taxes or local units and that's because we've historically forced them into that box. I agree there needs to be something done. The legislature is going to have to unshackle their hands and give them some other options as opposed to only one option which is property tax. Anyone else. Makes no difference where it comes from gov it's all taxes. Well yeah I'd like to say you know but it supports a basic fundamental government services at the local level. You've got to pay for them somehow.

Opportunity last for years to work with the governor and author as he talks about we worked well together to get those things done. I just think we have a really golden opportunity right now because we are in as part a national prosper we have this harsh budget surplus and we could be doing so much more if we had a governor who had some vision and set some major goals like improving our schools and improvise and that make it easier for families to send their kids to college I think that's what we're lacking right now. I want to point out I'm not against Bill I just I think like I said I think he's done a good job managing but I think it's the lack of the vision of directing in the ways that I see that we really need to go in the social areas. And I keep hearing from Tom and Bill this is what we can do that the government can do. Either the the governor or the state legislature keep it in state legislature state legislature Governor this is what I'm going to for Kansans this is what I'm going to do. Why don't we give the power back to the people back to the Kansans themselves and let them do for themselves that's the way it used to be before government came in and became so big and wanted to do everything for us. Let's let's quit saying government what are you going to do for me. Let's say this is what I can do to help us. Well now we have to go to our next question which comes from Becky Kaiser and Kurt who we will answer

first. Mr. Povey we've been talking about the relative healthy economy but in western Kansas real concern about the low commodity prices. Also as you probably are aware a very acute shortage of storage space we have we've unfortunately we've had very large wheat harvest and an anticipated large Mylo harvest as well but elevators are full it's been dumped on the ground there's no place for the incoming Milo. What can the state do to help these sagging prices of the commodities and is there a solution to the lack of storage space. Well I might point out that I live 160 acres and have little over hundred acres available land so I know a bit about it. We just sold some soybeans. When they went to all of it because there was no way to do it other than sell me Midol there is no storage available. There's Milo There's no stores you've got to sell it then or a little bit later in the contract why is it happening. What's happening. We've had record profit but also because I'm after getting these other great federal programs we have Canada come in and they are dumping grain in the United States

it's depressing our prices and our farmers are hurting because also the cattle you know they're dumping cattle in here what as a as a state we were really restricted by what we can do on a national level of a federal level out with nations that's actually the federal government's responsibility. If we look at what the Constitution says. But what we need to do as a as a governor we need to get with other governors of those states to Braster South Dakota North Dakota and other ones and go to the federal government say this is what we need to do to stop this problem get rid out of nothing and now we will hear from Mr. King. As governor I declare a state wide disaster and use my office to direct a remedy for the surrender economic call that threatens a future food security of this nation. Why does everyone everyone involved with food make money except a farmer. Food monopolies must go. I will draw the national spotlight of Shame on meat and grain cocktails economic rape of our family farmers and producers. I will take the leadership role in promoting 9 percent of parity legislation that Congress enacted back in 1941 to 952.

I will expose this and Sandie of importing beef pork and grain into the United States. And issue an executive order banning these foreign products into Kansas. Remember that last and 1 percent of imported food is inspected. Why penalize American producers with unfair standards. We need to support family farms because it's the only system that will ensure we have the economy economical and social structure that will commit to future food and fiber needs of the planet and provide a quality of life that we all expect and we all deserve. Thank you and now we will hear from Tom Sawyer. I think we need you more aggressive in marketing our products so that we need to govern to be aggressive and market our products abroad I think we need to work with our congressional delegation delegation to improve the Freedom to Farm Act to keep the parts that are good like the flexibility that allows farmers to grow the crops that are most profitable to them but provide a safety nets when crop prices drop. They don't go out of business in terms of the grain storage problem I think in the short run we can use ground storage but no longer when you provide some incentives that will increase the amount of grain storage available. We can buy down the property taxes on elevators and railroad Machinery

Equipment income tax credits we can give income tax credits to farmers to invest in grain bands. We can give railroads an elevator operator to upgrade their equipment a sales tax break on their labor so those are some of things we can do it for in the long run to keep this problem from happening in the future. OK. Mr. GRAVES. Becky obviously the dilemma is that we have farmers who are just the best in the world at what they do and they are out producing our ability to consume as a domestic market and certainly out producing what is being demanded in the foreign markets. Obviously much of the problem lies with much of the challenge lies with the federal government figuring out how to help us open up those foreign markets and market those goods. I think one area that I'd like to see to encourage the federal government to look at is enhancements to R C R P program. I think it would be good for Kansas farmers for two reasons one because it's environmentally sound. It idles acres and allows him to be used for wildlife habitat and as you probably know we've seen some great economic development in western Kansas as old people who love to come and pay substantially dollars to hunt or pheasant quail and be part of that. The honeymoon experience in Kansas

but it's also good because it then has some impact on production in terms of idling those acres. Is it the whole solution. No but I thought the CCR enhanced. I concur with Tom. We obviously need some kind of incentives in terms of tax credits something so that we will update our infrastructure. We've got 50s infrastructure trying to store the grain that's being produced today and we just can't do it. And now we're on the floor for rebuttal. Well I do agree with with Tom when he said that we need to develop new markets for grain I think that we definitely do that. There's been trade trips have been taken before to countries and to develop those markets I think that's a good idea it's something the governor can do or task force that he sets. I disagree with the safety net idea and I disagree with both Governor Graves and solution of the government giving tax credits and incentives. This is a business for granted. I run a business myself nobody gives me a safety net nobody gives me a guarantee. Farmers need to start learning and that's what the far Freedom to Farm Act is about how to live free of the federal government stead of being tied directly to them. If we will say OK I'm going to

wean myself from the federal government I don't have to have all this support from them. All these things that they're giving this money and I can farm the way I want to. Maybe they have to go work as another jobs report that's what my dad did years ago when I was growing up you had to go work for the state highway department so he could do the farming also because you could make the money on it. But the thing is that's better than going and saying federal government save me be my savior. Let's be our own people let's do our own work and quit relying upon the federal government and the state governments for everything else. Mr. King thank you. I would ask Tom Sawyer who's going to buy all of our grain and beef and stuff to reproduce every time we sell some to a foreign country. We have to loan him the money to buy it and then they don't repay the loan. And American taxpayer winds up paying for it. And as far as our farmers being good farmers we do have good farmers and ranchers here in Kansas. But they didn't produce a surplus. We import about 18 percent of beef pork and grain and into the state of Canada's importing beef in that stuff in the can is what's creating a surplus to farmers didn't do it. Our government done it to us with NAPPA.

OK. Anyone else a short time left. I would only point out that we just had an announcement the last 24 hours or so of the Taiwanese who bought for cash millions of bushels of hard red winter wheat they've been one of our great trading partners for many years and it's not being paid for with loaned us dollars. But I'd like to say that the that the IMF just loaned him about 40 or 50 billion dollars just about less than a year ago. Yeah I just like to point out that our farmers are competitive disadvantage. They're competing with foreign farmers were European farmers are heavily subsidized and our farmers also their thousands of farmers out there the people who buy their products there are few. There's a few number of people buying the products so they're not in a competitive. It's not a level playing field times of competition so that's why I think it's up to us to make sure that farmers can stay in business and I think it's it's benefits entire people Kansas that our family farmer stay in business I think we have to do what we can to help our family farmers. We need to move now to our next question which comes from the KC P.T. website. The question is should tax breaks and other financial incentives be used to lure new businesses to

Kansas. Darryl King has the first answer. Thank you. I think it's funny that you know when we're going to give Mother money or if it has children money welfare money or whatever we we call it welfare and we give farmers money. We call it a subsidy and then we give all these big companies money to come into Kansas. They call economical development so I don't think we should tax any and I think we ought to educate our people and train our people so we have a good working workforce here in Kansas. We lower our tax base where they don't have to pay a huge amount of taxes and I think the business will come in. You get out so I hear. I believe we do need to change the way we use our economic development dollars I believe some incentives are probably good we have to because other states are doing it and I think the major focus of our economic development. I'll be on a well-trained well educated workforce and like to change where we use our lobby dollars. I like to see us use a lot of dollars for college scholarships reward those students who work hard in high school. So every student Kansas that gets a B average or better in high school go to

wish in free to any of our community colleges Vo-Tech schools four year institutions in Kansas and pay for all the lobby dollars. I call it the star scholarship program. Stars across Forty two million dollars a year. Lottery currently raises 60 million dollars a year so we could easily afford stars and still have some money left over for other programs. Stars is based on a very successful program they've had in Georgia for five years. And George it's called the Hope Scholarship program in Georgia Works the same way they use their lobby dollars for college scholarships and it's been a big success there's been a big economic development to afford to be able to recruit a lot of companies to come to Georgia because their scholarship program. It's worked in Georgia it can work in Kansas I believe we have use of every dollar of the star scholarship program. Bill Graves your answer obviously that the question is who we should we provide those kinds of incentives those kinds of subsidies for companies and the answer is yes of course it is something we must do if we're to compete with the other 49 states in this in this country and surrounding countries. We've seen a tremendous success in Kansas over the last 12 years as a result of the focus of the economic development initiatives fund. As

you probably know we're experiencing the lowest unemployment in 30 years as a result of this strong economy we've been able to provide jobs for many Kansans who heretofore did not have a work experience. Our welfare rolls are down over 50 percent. I believe it's been one of the very wise moves that was made a dozen years ago by the Kansas legislature and the governor Governor Carlen governor Hayden and I believe very much that if To the extent we have a debate on additional dollars above the 14 million we already put in for scholarships that that debate should come relative to the state general fund and not robbing critical economic development dollars that have been the basis for this economic success we're enjoying Carpathia. What we're looking at ways to bring business into Kansas so that we can benefit from it. On August 30 first Governor Graves Tax Review Committee met in Topeka and listened to proposal by Bob Corkins of the Kansas Public Policy Institute Institute to face down the state's income tax eventually eliminated. This is a bold proposal but a wise one. And if you look currently nine states do

not have any state income taxes according to academic studies these states without state income taxes are enjoying much faster economic growth in states like Kansas and having come to Texas Texas and Florida to these no income tax states. It would appear that Kansas seems to be losing business from Wichita and other large metropolitan areas to those states. If we want to bring business to the state what we need to do is have low taxes because that's what they want. We also need to be able to bring them to an environment where they can have a good moral structure. They look for that also. You know I heard years ago when we get in the lottery and gambling and liquor by the drink we got to have this for business you know business did not go based upon those things. Business goes based upon what type of services the local community provides. And now an opportunity for rebuttal. While I would usually mention that I've heard three proposals that Darrell basically advocates we pretty much get rid of property taxes Kirk that we get rid of income taxes and Tom that we do under 250 million

dollars with the sales tax too. At some point again if we're going to go back to the original question one of the original questions about essential government services or has to be a way to pay for them. Kansas has always worked hard to kind of create a three legged school stool in terms of revenues we tried to have a balance between property tax sales tax and income tax. And we tried to acknowledge the concerns about the property tax with the uniform Levy reduction. We still have to figure out how to do the assessed valuation creep that irritates so many people. We've done some income tax reductions in this past tax package. I think targeting sales tax relief and food like we've done with the with the rebate program it makes the most sense. Anyone else but I like to say that we have we are not part of national prosperity right now and one reason the state has done well is because of the National Congress doing well you know rising boat rates rises rate of a rising tide raises all boats. But you look at our economic growth compared to our neighbors if you look at our region one of the 10 states 10 states or central region we are dead last in economic growth. I would

refocus our economic development efforts and focus on a bit better educated better educated better educated workforce. You know I'm going example one coming new tech are coming out of Topeka Kansas it's a homegrown company and they end up moving to Houston Texas because they cannot get enough skilled workers in Kansas and when they left they get a very scathing report of our economic development efforts and we need to focus on more on getting skilled workers and that's what the star scholarship program would do. But I think we also need to look at the fact that lower taxes are going to bring those businesses in you have to lower taxes you have a bigger economic base with more jobs as more money and more products that are being purchased in the economy if you go to the people that look at what the impact of a business coming in or to US dollars or whatever they talk about how many times that money is spent over and over to bring in more money in to that economy that benefits the local economy and the state economy and I think that we can cut income taxes I think you can get rid of them taxes and we can also bring business into the state and benefit the state.

One more question now from our Web site. Do you support the proposed voucher system and what impact do you think it would have on the public school system. Tom Sawyer you will have the first answer. No I don't I think we need to concentrate on ways to improve our public schools first and I believe we should set the goal that every child in Kansas leave the 3rd grade on the read right to basic math skills by the third grade level and to help achieve that goal that we need to do couple things first of all we need to reduce class sizes in the early grades so that we give incentives to school districts reduce class sizes that no child in Kansas and kindergarten first second or third grade in a classroom marjoram 17 kids. Second thing I do is start a very intensive adult mentoring program we get adult volunteers to come into the schools and work with those kids that are falling behind so we need to make our public schools better. My fear is with the voucher system because it would take too many dollars away from the Public Schools me just to pay for all the kids that are already in private schools. We had vouchers would cost 250 million dollars a year. Right now we're working making our public schools better making the best possible we can before we look at draining money away from a public school system. OK. We go now to Bill Graves for the answer to this question.

No I don't support vouchers. I think that Kansas should though however be more flexible in Arjen in the charter school than the in the Earth Charter schools we have not done. Aggressively enough pursue charter schools. I believe that investing early on in early childhood development is critically important in setting the stage for for our children when they enter the public education system that's why we've done a lot of the early Head Start. Head Start Parents as Teachers. Quite frankly the key the report lately on Kansas progress in our education system is very encouraging in terms of what's happening across the country some of the Kansas test scores have been up. We have a large number of students proportionately relative to other states who are actually taking some of the national test. And they continue to score well and show improvement in those areas. I think quite frankly at this point what we're looking for is some strong signs from the State Board of Education that they can put their political differences behind them and effectively be an advocate for what's delivered in the classroom in public education. And I think if we can do that we won't see a need for vouchers in our state.

Your thoughts on vouchers. I think that we ought to give the people the choices the way our present school system is set up to decide which school they do want to go to if you want to start off by NOT have the private schools involved because the 250 million dollars it would cost to do that that's fine but let's let at least the public schools to start with those those parents decide where they want their their students to go. Why not give them a choice if they you know that helps the poor out the most of the Democratic Party supposed to be for the poor and yet they are against vouchers. This is going to help the poorest people the most to let them choose a schools where the rich people say Mama send him to a private school. The poor don't have that choice I think they ought to have a choice expression in the public schools. It comes back down also to the local schools going to decide what's best for those students and then the teachers have to know they're going to work to have a good school. The local school boards are to get those those students coming in. I keep hearing Tom talk about third grade level let's have be able to do stuff. Why wait till the third grade. Years ago they could do in the first grade. You know why have to wait until the third grade level. Let's let's get back to local control of schools

and I think you'll find that we don't have to have the voucher system. And now Mr. Cain your thoughts for working out a plan to make the public schools work better also. But I would support a test program using vouchers to see if we could do a better job that way. Somehow now that we have got to figure out how to educate educate our kids better. And so I would not support a test program as far as vouchers is concerned. OK thank you. And now we have a short period for rebuttal. I would only comment that vouchers as a subject every year in the Kansas legislature and I don't believe it's gotten out of a committee hearing yet with a favorable vote. Anyone else. I would say that they should give it a try because in many states it has happened it's worked quite well. There are course unfortunate strings attached when the state gives the federal government that's reason private schools should be concerned about taking vouchers when the public school. Give the people a choice let them decide what schools best and let them at. I mean I keep hearing let's have choice on that. When we

come up the abortion bill becomes a voucher is there's no choice. Why not choice there also. We currently have choice in the current system we have some very good private schools. If people choose to send their kids there they can. But we also need to have a very solid public school system that serves everybody and we need to make sure our schools public schools are the best they can be and that's what we need to set a goal that every child can do to get the basics down and kindergarten first second third grade reduce class sizes make sure they learn the basics. I think that's extremely poor and I think it's all responsibility as a governor as a government to make sure we have the best possible public schools and we need to do that. And taking 250 million dollars out of the system for vouchers will make it very difficult to do. I used to teach my wife's a teacher my sister's a teacher my brother's a teacher and I'm here to tell you that they're fearful some of them because of what they've heard about vouchers but it doesn't have to be that way in fact now my brother is for vouchers. And my wife too because it gives them a choice. I think we need to give them a choice. If you don't include private schools it doesn't take 250 million dollars out of it. And I support public school choice by the way. I will promise. Give me that 30 seconds.

Anybody now. OK well now we will move on to our closing remarks. And the candidates also drew straws to determine the order of these remarks. And first we will hear from Tom Sawyer. Thank you. I'm very hopeful about the future of Kansas. Kansas has a wealth of opportunity available if we don't reach out and grasp it. We need to seize the moment. We need a governor who's going to take advantage of this national prosperity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans. I offer the people of Kansas a vision a vision that gives every Kansan the opportunity to live out their dreams and achieve their God given potential. The vision which every child in Kansas leaves at their grade on the read write do basic math skills the vision of working families can send their kids to college. The vision we have a simpler fairer tax system for both can't get real tax relief like elimination of the sales tax on food. A vision where a campus environment is protected from these large out-of-state hog factories that are here today and gone tomorrow. A vision where doctors and patients make health care decisions again and not insurance company bureaucrats. A vision where the can't the state of Kansas pays its debts now in the good times. So

in the bad times do come we don't have to raise taxes or cut programs. I'm Tom Sawyer. I offer a vision for the future. I want to be your governor. And I'd appreciate your vote on November 3rd. And now we will hear from Kirkby. I think that we need a return to constitutional government on the federal level but also on the state level. This is very important we do this because right now we're not operating that way and it's causing severe problems. If we were turn to a constitutional government we can have lower taxes we get rid of the IRS. We can do so many of these things on our own that I hear all the other candidates talking about life liberty family and property are best protected when local government is the primary governmental body that affects the individual and the federal government is the least likely to affect the individual. And by the way it pretty much excludes United Nations. And one thing I want to point out is that don't let the pundits decide who you vote for. Don't let the media don't let the party say oh Bill Graves Tom Sorry the only possible ones that have a chance of winning. Vote your conscience. You decide who's best candidate that you want that will support what you

want and you vote for them. You're upset because the conservative candidates didn't vote the way you wanted them to because at this the best we can do now they're saying the best you can do is build razor time so I say you've got a choice you've got to be on the taxpayer's party. You can vote for me and I will follow the Constitution I'll follow our principles because we go on principles not politics. That's what we're about. We have seven non-negotiable principles we will stand by those. Life is one of those total protection of life that's a primary responsibility of the government. Thank you and now we will hear from Bill Graves. Tracy City Becky thank you very much. Since I became governor there's a new factor that drives my vision and my goals and objectives as a governor. Lyndon I refer to it as a Katie factor we have a not much different perspective now that we have a 3 year old child in our life. I believe very passionately in making sure we have adequate health care for children that's why we put the new health care initiative in place for uninsured Kansas children we need to make sure that system works and reach out to families seeking to take advantage of that. We need to do our best to in her

encourage daycare opportunities for parents so they can work in and break the cycle of welfare. We need to do more in the area of true early childhood development we've made some starts with Early Head Start parents as teachers but we can do more public safety in the area of immunizations child safety seats those areas are critically important to me anchored by a strong public education system as I said at the outset. I'm firmly committed to our public education system and its funding. I want to work to eliminate the property taxes on automobiles. I am committed to ushering in a new transportation infrastructure program for the next century. And I'm very committed to make sure we put once and for all the issue of reforming higher education behind us in this state. I would appreciate your support in November. Thank you. Thank you and now we will hear from Darrell. Thank you. I'd like to thank everybody again also for being here tonight. The last four years of state and national politics has clearly indicated that Democrats and Republicans are incapable of solving urgent economic environmental and educational needs of Kansas and as a nation I would ask Tom Sawyer and Bill Graves who have been in politics many many years where your vision

has been all these years. We need a third force to Paradip to provide a catalyst of leadership integrity and courage to provide a positive change is so desperately needed by all Kansas and all Americans. The Reform Party says is that opportunity. One thing I would ask you to consider if you want true reform you have to cast a reform vote. We can't keep voting for Republicans and Democrats and spec to get reform. I will ask you again do you have more freedom and pay less taxes than you did five years ago. If your answer is No then I ask you to cast your vote for reform and help build a reform party to a third force I refer to earlier. I'd appreciate appreciate your vote in November. Thank you. And on behalf of everyone involved in our debate this evening I would like to extend thanks. First of all to the candidates for your participation tonight. Republican candidate Bill Graves Reform Party candidate Darrell King. Taxpayer party candidate and Democratic candidate Tom Sawyer

and my thanks to the journalists who join me this evening on the panel Steve Ross from the Kansas City Star and Kaiser from K.J. Alaska on your FM dial. Thank you to you for watching. I'm Tracy Townsend and we hope you have a wonderful evening. Funding for this program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and bi

annual financial support from viewers like you.