The road to Wounded Knee IV: an interview with Crow Dog (Part 4 of 5); The road to Wounded Knee

You're listening to this special report concerning the events in the past the present and some prognostication about the future. And tonight in the studio we have with us two journalists who were present in Wounded Knee for periods of time Ron Harvey who did reporting for Pacifica Radio and Mark turtle Taub who is a freelance journalist who helped out. And. Has been helping us with this report tonight. And we're going to be talking about Crow Dog about whom the very words we're going to hear in a while. First of all I'd like to ask both of you what was the situation like there for journalists I know for example that there was only one telephone functioning. I've been told that which must've produced some interesting situations in itself. Well the situation when I got there. Was which is that on the 3rd of March about halfway through the first week of the takeover they had let in a select pool of news and UPI AP The big network crews ABC NBC and CBS and keeping everyone else out.

So I had to hike six miles over land into creeks to get inside in the first place. And while I was hiking in their helicopters flying overhead and federal marshals along the road and it was an adventure just to get inside. Once inside the reception was really warm and of course the telephone was one telephone wire was cut off whenever there was any firing and by the large part most of the newsmen who were there are there on a daily basis and left in the evening when all the firing took place. So I'm not even sure that most of our listeners I know I'm not too sure myself and I think most of the people listening may not be too sure of the geographical nature of Wounded Knee. It's frequently referred to in the press as a hamlet. And the picture you see is of the church or of the small store trading post which so things to tourists what else is there aside from the church and the store. That's really about all there are some residences and not just one church but three churches there altogether 83 different churches on the reservation

Wounded Knee is about 18 miles of Pine Ridge and has a population maybe of a couple of hundred people. There really isn't much there the Trading Post is also the post office the gas station the souvenir shop and adjacent to that as a museum which is owned by the same people who own the Trading Post and The Post Office and the gas station when you arrive there. How many people were present and how did they accommodate you. I imagine there wasn't any place to sleep except perhaps on the floor. Yeah well most of the newsmen at that point were staying in a one of the churches in your community of Wounded Knee. There were about I would say between 200 and 300 Indians in the in Wounded Knee itself. It's confusing because there's also a community of Wounded Knee which is about oh a half to three quarters of a mile behind the sacred north of the Sacred Heart Church which is one of the eight districts of part

of the Pine Ridge Reservation. Those people were within the federal boundaries within the perimeter of the federal APCs the armored personnel carriers. They were there some evacuated especially when the cease fire was it was imminent the cease fire was going to end some evacuated but divine large most of the people from the within the community stayed there. They were separate However from the people who were all down around the trading post in the trailer and in the homes of the hostages that would be hostages. When it is necessary for you to file your reports run. The telephone connection that you came over on was often extremely poor. Why was that. They have the phone lines are very good out there anyway. But then almost every agency in the government had had a tap on it and I recall and a couple of conversations that I had over the telephone that made some reference to the fact that the phone was tapped and

they would begin to click even even more often than it would ordinarily. And in fact one time someone was was calling out and the FBI interrupted this phone call. And told him that they were going to cut the phones down and he didn't get the plane to complete his call so everybody knew that the FBI was was in on the phones and it wasn't in their interest to have clear lines in and out anyway. Where you slept did you feel you were in physical danger of being shot by a stray bullet. I felt really kind of safe in Wounded Knee I was talking the marker earlier that was the only place that I. I knew that at least federal agents were going to come in without some resistance. Not not not like my own but. You're a guy in them I believe. Did you do did you see any combat duty in Viet Nam when you were there. No we did not. So you can compare the two situations.

I I heard this the two situations compared initially when they they dug in the trenches the they were very strategic in the beginning and then some Vietnam veterans who were also Indians came in and advise the same military people that the type of trenches they should build and where they should build them. We're going to go into now as soon as we get a little introduction to it is a tape of an interview that was done by a number of journalists from the underground press with Crow Dog Who is the chief spiritual advisor to the American Indian Movement and normally lives on the Rosebud Reservation I believe not far from Wounded Knee. And I came over and has been there since almost the beginning. As a spiritual adviser to the independent Uggla nation Mark I believe that you are METCO dog and spent some time with him over kind of a person his I met Crow Dog the first 10 months ago 11 months ago

now. When the when Yellow Thunder the Indian The 51 year old Indian from the Pine Ridge reservation had been killed and tortured and aim for the first time the first non-urban situation came into the Rosebud Reservation and into the Pine Ridge Reservation. At that point Larry had just first become affiliated with a moose the first time I really had an opportunity to meet him. At first blush she looks anything but a holy medicine man he has wears baggy blue jeans and a button down shirt. At that point was chain smoking Marlboros. But when he begins to talk as you'll hear I imagine on this tape He's he's everything of a holy medicine man. During the week I spent in Wounded Knee. He did everything from extracting a bullet from deep inside a guard's leg to fixing herbal medicines for the elderly in the sick fixing the telephone wire when they've been sabotaged fixing the gas pump when that wasn't working. Of course holding the UEP or sacred pipes or monies and the sweat lodges. Daily

sweat lodges for the guards. He's quite an impressive man. In this interview with people here they'll see that he doesn't respond directly to questions very often and he has a rather circumspect way about him. Not that he seems to be evading them but he goes off and certain directions and I've listened to this interview myself two or three times while putting it together. It hasn't been edited very much at all I must say I did not take out anything of substance I took out certain technical stops and starts in the tape. I thought of editing it but then I realized that I didn't want to because this thing is there on it should be expressed through the way that I think the interview took place and so it is perhaps longer than it needed to be in order to get across some of the points. But I think the more of the interviews communicated much better it was left on edited. No one had me in there

was a girl that been kind of you know I've heard about bigfoot. And for the colors of the book for me for the brand of the book. Well that's why we're here in the American Indian Movement wherever the news release $2 mentioned you know American in the movement. But it's not the right the people that want to hear that's why the Americans in this here and in one in my nature they should then you not tell not we call it healed our nation and I know them. And for the right man will recognize that as a nation when it was the right man. We didn't say the white man was recognized. Getting caught emanation in things and some of the things some of the experience that I have since I was with the

movement I was resonant with the movement yesterday I was a movie star with a movement not two three years ago and I've been working with the movement since I was and I know myself I've been working with you know the whole thing. And some of the things that I experience of the whole movement and I'm a spiritual leader I'm the spiritual leader of the American in the movement national spiritual leader than I and they do the Palmer had a spiritual power and by minority people give me the power to be that rather than to the American air movement. So I met online wherever the American new movement is one there and the reason why it's the American movement and recognize there's a lot of organizations.

There's a lot of organization and been organized in the United States. Another news organization you can do cannot put him into good cannot put the puzzle together. I thought that the runtime the grace period put us here add one but not that the American new movement we've been waiting with so many hundred years. We've been waiting for the right man to understand us we are a human being and I can say were aware and were going to we are human being that knew and do know these things that we were aware and wanted need that's going to be our first week of August.

We're going to hear that time and Indian people. New America movement then the civil rights people want one to know what was happening about Obviously everybody knows what's happening but who deeply understanding the Indian people who got to know and know as the time has no knowledge of the time and that's why the it happened there's not a places maybe it will happen here if we win the victory. It could be happen in Little Big Horn in Montana. We are the greatest and we are the. Rule of the land. Man Lord we knew that white men use

the Lord and the rulers and landlord of the Western Hemisphere taught his dad to rest and I'm as pure as belong to the Indians. You read many midnight stupidity that I had been in the Indian means to plead with God to seabird both philosophies before we get into the more merit. Because of our own problems. Rather where the military runs out in front of us right now where there are guns surrounding this right now the American Indian people do know this now we are we are standing the red man are getting together. The philosophy of the Indian life is getting together at the time. The government in the same land manmade made laws but none of these laws

can be when men don't live abide by his laws that Trey got to spend Kendrew from attorneys. All this Larry is worse than the dirt as our allies in United States government wars all of that never ends. That's right. Nothing like riding behind in the circle of Wounded Knee. You see on the right you see all the guns you see on the right man the weapons that you could see. There's the right man's own curtain. So now it's a white man in England wants to know trying to go through that on curtain. You don't want to live that on couldn't any more American Indian people are doing around our patients now up to not 1973. So that's why that happened

how the spiritual and the political leadership come together here did meet here and look like you are today. I never said the red man ever said. Redmond never said anything about what the leadership of the American inner people I was all right then. But if the right men do not we have to understand is under our Constitution our Constitution and the greatest constitution of the American Indian peoples were going to use that so hard to find hard to find the direction it's going to be I figure things are so good peace pipe. So from there the leadership of the American movement newest people the tribe got to know

not to know the Indian life. Read what done is good. I would done us not good since there was a man with the right people for many years now who are the we are the greatest people. Not today we are the poorest people you are understand that when men do understand Indian people never live a lie. That's why we got to lose we got to please the Jews and then the white man made a mistake he said rather Bonnett war bonnet that words would soon be on and the only thing that I can see is the non that I want to see is today I'm gonna live the good bonnet the other is a medicine man I was brought up in the midst of Beardsley and I was

I wasn't born I was brutally when come to born to this earth. Other than spiritual man then with all this power so that the first around I think I thought this part was going to dun me. Then just to my family so I have everything I want I want no no come on stop and think. Then I was thinking for my people for my red men so who would I and what I got and what I have I put it away and what the Pollard had been given to me I must use it for the Indian people. That's why I'm here in one in need. If it is not for that cause I could be in my own reservation and none from without a reservation. But I do represent deal with a lot of people activists to various dangerous

months either of the time of the white man system the attitude we will agree with or like man but a right man has to change his attitude. Then that OWD has got to be changed. I'm reading the Indian way of life in what is wanted me mean to Indian people rather than mean. In England people means as they're doing than people who do know or there's Indian died. There's an Indian god killed and murdered by the white man that we want here dead who is he right men shouldn't even do that and then he wrote a book where Martin wanted me then he every were national pictures are. There's a Wounded Knee one

in memorial monument this national Norman so white man made a mistake. He shouldn't he should even do that. So no Indian is not at this stop and think nationally this stop and think I don't care backward. Got killed by the white man the 7 Calvary. Still the Spirit is spirit and wanted me. So for this reason why that's why the focus of the start of the National spiders in the state aside quite unwonted name. How many of them are trying to be God and man of honor when they kill all this Indians innocent children on board. You say so if I kill so many white men I wonder I wonder do I have to have a man liner So these are the obvious things that the American in the people white men so smart so what

he shouldn't done. He shouldn't give us the education he shouldn't do that to get into my Redmen but he's not he made a mistake that he give them a good education some good education to the Indian people at the time given the versity of their life. The case that I have that I have to leave and compromise together as two standards that were that were all never together with the end of the white race in the Indian race. So now we do we do understand and I reply it is a more balanced and which one is on just this is the one man for these are the things you know when you need it happen there's a very good there's a boy got a wanted and in need here you've probably heard about it and I don't know if you two girls one of the others. So I took the bullet down. He led me he got he got a round in the

need for after after we win the victory. We might still be a month Wednesday a term and then standing here with my diet so I live. It's not that it's not too good to let the people know that we're we're just we're just standing here we're not one ironical Indians American in a people run are the patients. That's why we knock at the door at the government. The promises that it will live on promises and mood. And now knowing we can we can take the promises anymore. So that's why we use Wounded Knee. That's why we need a big foot. So many archaeologists sound into apologies that couldn't could could know anything any human being to a dead god kill and die

in the end about right man bye again. Yeah I popped through an autopsy. The human body and have that bird still in his body he will the evidence will think it so there's so many people dead buried in dead so good grounds to believe that they're the body that the human is Lester and into dirt and bone turning to do with the Birlas 9:00 to noon today and that's the evidence to date a white man's living a lie. So are there any archaeologists don't understand is already the government don't understand is going to get a good Oracle on his to do this ground and he and I are as alone as long as you believe laws and laws and laws of the United States. Reiser with these

people wasn't buried in the packet and the mindset of these people was removed God and some are still alive. My SO and there will be for them to die. They rape them to the sound carry rabies and woman and talk to you in the innocent cause of Longmont use a gun to blow their heads off the books are going on right now brother outside this building. What do you think in the minds of those FBI and marshals that they would fire in here. They may hit women and children. What's good in their heads was to add to the feeling of the attitude right when you say two things when he get up in the morning. Thank you I said good morning. But he will never go to goodness but only with American in the people who know it's a good life his life

is sacred but remember the bullet tonight we got murdered by like what happened. I broke for this is going to be the last time things plywood that we're going to have they're going to come some of this world rule has an earthquake and then boom dead now that was great. There was no such thing Marshall can stay. I don't care how much the grewsome got the law to stop her or think that it was great that mother is going to change she's going to change and there is going to be some tornadoes extreme tourney was going to come through here from the rest of the South. So I had to time my Indian people has to prepare themselves to think and act Indian and rock in the open when

listed at the time that the time why we know that he's done the prepare himself my man. He and I stand in God we trust that money is God you know so he and then again he killed his own Jesus Christ save for the for for that. He would give his life for young people who are not here trying to make meaning vibing to him that he killed his Jesus Christ but we got our Jesus Christ here. The promise is that the group's progress we still have that. What is it mean to move it move in then this is going to remove the high road I live in with my part as I live in the end but I'm still moved when rationed goods and ration that in the West and I'm as good today. Yeah American of people they got to know this

and life is another and I would a nature life. I don't think that you have you with us or to your brother's home as good to your brothers for Ruben anything bad bad time. Indian life was in India and I have not had time that you didn't own a buffalo robe here. This through this world long to them I've been in the people with the red and blue things to say so in the end when I go back to all this in their lives but whose In a way it's the white man who can range from being away in my brain with the others in my way when I'm one of the ways and so he has to he has to teach him how to listen and move in. Today an Indian woman was telling me how when the white men came to the Indian women's

breast the Christian churches have been posted on the people and outlawed the Indian religion. She told me that being here in Wounded Knee she's learning more about her own Indian people enroll in the religion through some of the ceremonies that you're carrying on. Could you tell us a little bit about how you're teaching some of these Indians more about the Indian way of life. First a relative a cage my brothers and my sisters peer through the persecution the home of the temple you seemed to be outside and then using the fire into this room. That's a horrible thing going live so high and purification with a sacred piece by piece by bit is given to the American Indian people to use to curse and eyes to the south brutally.

That's why we got the power. So now we've been away for a long time and I mean it was the right move going churches every Sunday. Remaining it was the one thing that he can understand it and I found out and I found God through me and then it led with what he's going to do with the bullets that come in to this building. He stood so clear. But still he's going to do it and then he threw in the western hemisphere. So and moving forward never will God. Now today I want my people to learn to live in the same division and even the vision and will remove the vision. And the dream of the universe of the life is going to be the end in life

and this Indian university never ends. It's the cycle of the whole world that never ends. It's a perpetual ways of living and the life of the red man. So from there other people kids on the I don't have to tell me to do this you do this. I head toward the Empire Room eyes proves we are employing them with improper words sound to bloom to AG to do not what's happening here. That's why the movement is here now and that's to round is the right men don't like it. Right when I'm running to brew it and you know I will record if I had to do it but he has me as a bait and I'm certain title of that boat so that's what I require as myself and as a nation and the island nation. Church is also not you know nature I just know you know earth and there's no plants and there's

no water in that it's a hospital room and I was one of the things that burn happen out many many many many were the right man and into the western hemisphere. He should know what and why so he shouldn't and he didn't know it was for our whistlin the right man and some of the attacks from some of the experts that I have taken in the people. I. Know they do Merlot but man he's mistaken. It's not more of a mistake Mr. Weidmann. If you go to bed with many years of Medicine Man and holy man we're going to leave and an end and then rebuild said

but it's all right now why Ben was sensible resident of the Western Hemisphere. He brought under foot in this one kind of do things now not really we have now we can turn on the right conservative groups now like it's Christianity but I have to pay him. Instead he should practice what he preached and if he didn't render me the Noongar of according to his laws and when they were going through as well. So not a bird Christianity is is as destructive as a black shadow of fear as the white man's religion and that's to run is the kind of creed was that they were going to people I had been to their coming through as their Wideman been baptized and how many were been baptized Indians. And we should know about it. And these are the things that this generation you're not known right man want to stop them just and

they should. You can put him as a white man. Why do you think the American the movement is fighting for the wrong less American in a movement it's fighting for. Well aren't you thinking about his own bone generation he's not fighting for does one evening he's fighting for unborn generation. Recent generation. We're going to be live next generation to have a lot of changes in the western hemisphere. The government and excited people then that people the American people are where they are in a tribal understanding you know I have that. But now it to be the government it's. If you live here and as you did just here and inside to be a

Catholic and the place you feel you have to risk your life to get what you need. Correct that's correct. You've asked and you know legal papers but nobody listens it seems you have to risk your life to get what you want. Some first round would be I am a Ben and b I have belonged for many days many weeks and to be inside to be I. Heard understand I would propose that been given to a room we drew understand 66000 a Sudanese and move us. But I thought time same words were never been away with my months were you in a big city. So my people are the one being from like oh but here in the resolution. When I was brutal because that's why we moved from their main room fell on with

Ruth and thousand matters but not on what we would do you estimate that you have to have an foundation to that other government that I find hard to still be I and we're in Washington to see and do it in this article that reservation was that still the attitude that is today as I did today over the life of the government system so we could do it together we could be good and runs both are too clever to do it consciously think we could do it and by no means it will be ruined and I was on a now I have to stay stead been in to be i.e. involved. But no we've got to come back and admit our people the grass roots people got to understand that scene first or rather gradually people don't understand that's why were militant were non militant but it's to white men dad milk US military to see

if I was a militant you could see with the with my bone marrow. But the attitude of the education of the instrument that rooms the weapon that wounds that come from the white man see the gun. So government has to come to his common sense to stop to think and what is wrong in life as he was warning the American people and then it got to be changed that's why we need to run to Washington to see and then we want to burden the first 11 to Gordon Brown skinned and light in God in this kind of change we need change real human being we want to ride man to recognize this. We don't want to ruin my people to go into a store and the store people are following me around whatever kind I do for you. Ron says no. But what kind of fun kind of for you and then for I am not going to kid card with the South with me.

These rules kind of attitude is going to change in the Western Hemisphere and ruin and I stayed kind of near West to have a spear and it's got to be that way were rare people at one time but it's the right man that Buddhists. Can wrap their mind that mother can forgive the white man took on the gas and do elements that have been taken from the earth. You can put it back together. Sometimes a mother is going I'm not even in rooms now. So that's why the earthworks things like this going to happen but remember they were recognized in people that's why what happened be I belongs inside of me I had done wrong.

One of the mysteries just a misunderstanding and veterans and that been have been and unsigned MBI what happened how about there were people who wants to write and then lays and hand him a property that he done to the American people see him as to see his way and he has to see our way to go stance brother the Istari or what you want not only for the words of the last time tribes have clear stands and from dad. It's going to be something that it's going to be with virtually all of that going to happen tomorrow whether it's going to rain whether it's going to snow or Steno might've been better served in Sundays but I don't know if you go to church on rainy day. I flew in the sun

just understood he made today. But Iran had to fund it to have the Sunday we had the day and we had the bill and we had the son Bradbury. We had to spiritually be that room that I wanted to go with that. But really for was a good time the last time. That's not the last time. But that's a time that most of the spiritual things that been stopped by the white right government. That's why my people are scared and that's what I did and those are some of the spiritual things that been given to us in the room and rather they starve on the street he brings as well in that crucible has got a wife and a sense to other prisoners power to men whether they're cruising horses that have the power that could be used to a man with all the times

to kind of what happened to a customer. That's why the right divided government trying to wipe the Indian Indian religion Indian power and powers through here that could be moves and that it's a moocher saying that we're going to have that the American people bring this to the compound whom this thing Mabyn the ribbon with the white man it's on. And we've been going to this church all my but I never go to his church but they bend around most of the people wound the reason why we're going to have the girls dance tomorrow. Within one of the girls does tomorrow as everybody want to hear a new one on me. Words with many many tribes I mean many many try close to 77 tribes here and we're going to go stands here

and Rooney was seen as the right man said seven to seven white people going to one church you know and I'm sure the room within this church is better and then you have the church but tomorrow tribes we're going to we're going to dance together and one of us asked us to see the vision. And I know the one of us asked in other words what could be done. So there's a lot of the same he said was rather than have the solution both times tomorrow. You're right about the world trends maybe you can read by Dr. Spink and he said something about it goes to the reason we're going to have to go Stan's Negroes to minds is the vision that when the seed of division is going to come back to the Indian people they're going to see the vision and they're going to that generation on

board who could see the vision too and he could never believe it. It would require a nation our nation require nation to up to the state could have been in the others that are gratified others are Kenyan people don't have the know how or in the right right now is going to heaven and now they're not going to know about noon there would he use a gun on earth. So now he's done on earth today. You ain't a mother if you do those things on earth you know. So that for those reason a lot of us American the people that will do it the Indian way Legos were here and wanted me to go in the first field some of the the some of the spiritual gifts going to fulfill that. With the power that been given in to us for the great spirit

world we're making so that it will make games over the ride to a local stop his bullets like what happened to Crazy Horse. Cruiser is with us here. Big foot is with us here. Proud of my grandfather is a man that he Sundance and girls dance performer the director goes down. So from that generation. Tomorrow I'm going to perform that way. So I mean tribes none of us tribe don't speak. We didn't speak the same language but we do think the same spiritually. So the little rooms that were going to were going to do that tomorrow and I can stay we're going to see this vision and I can seem we will see this theme the visions the

way the vision that with the Great Spirit wants to see you know for those regions that we. Were going to have the girls dance tomorrow and I'm sure with some of my brothers going to be seeing this on the visas that could be seen in and Western Hemisphere this is really for when I was a girl we'd had to sign that girl stands and I we tried to warn and wanted me were going to have the Ghost Dance dance the dance of the tribes or is it a loan. No that's not a lot of it's not it's not a hell of a lot of us oppose that and that's when the try will blow stands close to that word post. My brother was in the chipboard will restore our life or of the denial of those in the world but caused this not Bertrand to goes

into bands for everybody to the spirit. Can you tell us something about the great Cece didn't think people would wear jeans to the groups choose one of the first or the rules changed a little that I wanted about red rice or the Red Cloud generation in here. Fine fine not to mongrel to mount a report and ask around in any of the. Red Guard Generation Y here in this area here. You will not find. Room and you won't find this man as a nation. When you were flying there were leaders related to the big

move up to Sitting Bull been really two brutal wars. Boy I don't know right Greenlee was don't have no brothers and sisters been somehow he's got a relation there's no relation is the people here not too big so you don't have brothers and sisters. All rise so the he's groovy that phrase a writing resource will bear was the woods or the name of the American White Man that's why he moved his name in this crazy horse. Been so it's something and something that brings a horse crazy. It's not is true. Cruiser was not the trip with his and it ridden man but he related to everybody.

He's supposed to be the same beer to the people but at the time the time at the time he can save he was going to say he was going to say was not on his food in the US but at the time like a Right man down. Who is Jesus Christ to this grace. So the right then he is dead. That attitude that he had so he come around and kill our Jesus Christ and tried to kill the great leader rules and force the white man's name groups in there was was our Jesus Christ and He rose other Jesus Christ. He was the man that knows everything.

That's right. The bodies but the power. But if the right men don't know the blood and the blood of the Indian people in the world have been through people that the the good of your family don't kill the guy like you were the. Interview with Crow Dog spiritual advisor to the American Indian Movement and spiritual adviser to the independent or grab the nation being broadcast on Pacific a special program devoted to the events around Wounded Knee and the situation of the Native Americans in the United States today. This program goes back to. The Pacifica program service. And radio.

And now for your heart. And the archive of that catalog. 65. It's down. To the Pacifica Radio. 5 3. 1 6. 0 0. 0 federal. California. Niceness are. Not. That specific. Fight. Three. Point six. A.M. of all. Central California. 9:30.