Jim Cooper's Orange County; Interview With Governor George Deukmejian.

George Deukmejian of California the governor is responsible for governing the nation's largest state in population with twenty five million residents. He oversees 100 20000 state employees and a state budget of twenty six point seven billion dollars. If California were a sovereign state it's 400 billion dollar gross annual product would rank its economy eighth among all the nations of the world. But the Republican governor faces serious problems too including a running battle for the first 10 months of his office with a Democratically controlled legislature. Unemployment stands at 9 percent. With a million people out of work. Prisons are seriously overcrowded and the state's community college is facing critical money shortages really to an impasse between the governor and the legislature on just how the colleges should be funded. Need the critics no friends would ever describe the governor as neutral or a passive figure. At age 54 with 20 years of state elective service he is clearly stamped his political philosophy on the face of California politics. His supporters say he has brought fiscal control back to State Government but his critics charge he's done this at the expense of many social programs

and education resources. In the past he served four years in the state assembly becoming minority whip. He then became a state senator ending up as Senate majority leader under then Governor Ronald Reagan. He was then elected attorney general and served in that office for four years before assuming that the governor's duties in January of this year. Governor I think it's interesting to reflect on the logistics of this frenetic 10 month that you've just come through with the states to come through. You had thirteen hundred fifty bills come to your desk. Of though he was signed about twelve hundred into law one hundred and thirty eight you have vetoed in something like 20. You have allowed to become law without his signature. How would you evaluate your your own mark. For the first 10 months. When I've been very very pleased with the progress we made because as you enumerated at the outset. We faced some very serious problems. When I first came into office you may recall that we were confronted with a budget deficit of one and a half billion dollars and we actually were within hours of not

being able to pay our bills we were thinking about having to issue IOUs. And so our first real major problem was to get the state back on a sound financial track. That's one thing we have already accomplished. In addition to that of course we were faced with past history ignoring a very serious problem with inadequate education public education kindergarten through 12th grade. We proposed a number of major reforms and those were adopted along with some increased funding to help to improve the quality of education. We've also had a growing problem involved with our prison system. Our prisons were built to hold about twenty five thousand seven hundred inmates we now have over thirty six thousand in the state prison system. And I am and I authored a lot of laws to help send a lot of those people there. And of course as attorney general I also was involved. But we have to have adequate facilities.

And that problem had been ignored for the last few years. Now we've gotten through some major legislation that's going to help to alleviate that situation. So these are some of the things that I might add. One final note and that is that in the past we've had some ballooning budgets we've had spiralling tax increases and this year our budget is approximately the same level of spending as it was last year no growth and of course we did this without going to the public and saying that they were going to increase their general taxes. You've done a lot of this with some very acrimonious debates and arguments with the legislature you've been on that side of the fence. You have the mutual advantage of having been a legislator as well and now as a governor. But how would you characterize your battle is that the status thing between George Deukmejian the governor and the legislature. Well I think that it was to be expected to some extent when you have an administration of one party and you have a legislature under the control of the other party.

And in this situation we had for the last eight years the Democrats not only had control the legislature but they had control of the executive branch. And so I think that you have to recognize that they sort of were accustomed to being able to do things as they sort of saw fit. Now with a new governor coming in of a different philosophy there was bound to be some friction involved. I also think it was a period of testing. I think that perhaps they were testing this new governor and therefore I don't think that it was too surprising. But what's really important is the results. And I'm very pleased with the results that we achieved after all of the debate in the controversy. What do you think you can do to make your relations with the speaker better than what they've Roberti this week the pro tem of the Senate. In other words with the Democrats who control the legislature what are you going to try and do to make relations better. Well I'm not sure that there's any one or two things that can be done and we will

continue to try to work with the legislative leaders. I've done this all session in the sense that I've been willing to talk with them I've been willing to negotiate with them we've had numerous meetings we've just talked in my office and many many times. I will have to say though that I think if you go back. To the areas that we've proposed they've just about opposed us on everything. And so I'd like to see a little sense of giving a little sense of cooperation from the other side as well. We've just seen what some people are calling your declaration of war again on reapportionment in that you're going to now start a new initiative that you hope to bring before the voters next November. Six hundred thousand signatures to again present to the voters the opportunity to have a impartial independent commission to decide the matter of reapportionment. Did you feel like you were touching off a new reapportionment war when you did that on Saturday.

Well any kind of efforts in the reapportion area are necessarily going to be rather difficult. But I think that there's a great need and a desire among the public for a major reform in how districts are reapportion. And by that I mean and for every you know in the past that's always been done by the legislature that's provided for in the Constitution. But we all know and having been a legislator I mean I know perhaps is more than the lot of other people that that when the legislature does it they're naturally going to tend to draw those lines to favor the incumbents. What we're proposing is that we have a major significant reform and that is to create a nonpartisan type of commission that would do the re apportioning rather than leaving it into the hands of those people who are going to be most directly affected the legislators themselves. You must have considered the fact that the voters had a chance to put a. And then there through the through in the last election last year. And yet they failed to do what it was turned

down. Another initiative that called for an independent commission so what makes you feel that this has more opportunity the past this time. Well if you'll recall also last year the voters rejected they had an opportunity to vote directly on re apportioning that had been done by the legislature in June of last year. They rejected that work that had been done by the legislature. Unfortunately everyone thought I think including Democrats as well Republican that the proposal for an independent commission would be supported and there wasn't much of a campaign conducted on its behalf. I do think that with an appropriate campaign informing the public of what is the goal with such a commission that I think this next time will be more successful. Do you have any reason to think that right now as you are here you have no reason to think it will absolutely pass or that you think will be very narrow. Well I think it's going to take a strong effort. I wouldn't take anything for granted and

especially in this area and I'm sure that there will probably be a considerable opposition probably from a lot of the Democrats themselves. But nevertheless I do think that this is something that will be appealing and hopefully by and stop being the idea of the nonpartizan commission that we won't have to go through these kind of very divisive types of reapportionment battles and I think you call them endless wrangling when you make your mother right. You also were critical of the Supreme Court's ruling you said California despite recent court ruling to the contrary should have the right to determine how they were to be represented. That certainly is a criticism of the Supreme Court's handling of the Sebastiani. Decision would you comment on that. Yes I certainly would I. I feel that the court should have allowed the people to exercise their right to determine how they're going to be represented That's what reapportionment is all about. And on the other

hand the court came down with a ruling that just totally prevented the public from being able to cast their votes and express themselves. And you know the initiative process is really something that I think is very almost sacred to the people of California and should be fully protected. And it really disturbs me that the Supreme Court would take away the people's right of the initiative and the right to vote on such a critical issue. You've been critical the Supreme Court on this issue and other issues for example the the decision of the Supreme Court not to hear your your actions regarding William Fein the convicted murderer and rapist who is now up for release. Do you would you comment on your feelings about the Supreme Court do you think it's been politicized that the does it have a built in liberal bias. From your perspective. Well there's no question that it is a liberal Supreme Court. You have six out of the seven members of the Supreme Court are people who

were appointed either by former Governor Jerry Brown or by his father Governor Pat Brown and they will be the first to admit that they are liberal in terms of their philosophy. What again it was troublesome in terms of this last action was that they didn't even hear the case. This was a case where under a law that's on the books I in effect rescinded the action taken by the parole board the Board of Prison Terms to release this man who had a long long criminal record including the murder and including several rates. And and in the Court of Appeal it was a split decision two to one in which the Court of Appeal ruled against me but there was one judge out of the three who who said in effect that though the governor did have this authority then when it went to the Supreme Court they didn't even hear the case. They just simply said they weren't going to hear it. And then the fact that means that the court of appeal the ruling is the one that's adopted.

Do you feel that you're going to have difficulty and success in a lot of your programs because of this kind of shall we say philosophical difference that you have with the Supreme Court. Oh yes I'm sure that that will continue until such time as I might have the opportunity to appoint some individuals to the Supreme Court. But again this is what happens really I think with any change of administration. And unfortunately the makeup of the Supreme Court there's only one person there who was appointed by Governor Reagan and as I mentioned earlier the others were appointed by the two former Governor Brown. Chancellor Gerald Hayward chancellor of the state community college system with one hundred six community colleges seven college districts use words like devastation when he describes the plight now of California's one hundred six community colleges. His office has said today that they now face 15000 layoff the faculty the administrators they now face one hundred sixty six thousand students who will be turned

away this year. And they face the fact that 12 out of the state 70 college districts are facing imminent financial insolvency all this because there was no accommodation reached between your office the Office of the governor and the Office of the state legislature the state legislature over this one hundred eight point five million dollars. That right up to practically the closing hours of the legislature and it was a subject of vitriolic debate. Would you comment on that. Yes I think it is most unfortunate that the community colleges are now in this situation. But I think that it's important to note that there was support for a compromise in this area a compromise of additional funding along with the imposition of fees of $50 a semester for which really breaks down to about 57 cents a day. And when I say there was support that was passed by the state Senate again remembering Democrats are in control of both houses. And yet the state Senate passed that compromised version twice

on two occasions and all the Republicans in the assembly were also supportive of it. And we thought that there was going to that there was an understanding that it would also receive enough support from the assembly Democrats to gain final passage. And the only group that has steadfastly opposed this compromise are the assembly Democrats under the leadership of Speaker Willie Brown. Even the Board of Governors of the community colleges while a lot of them don't like the idea of imposing fees. And nevertheless they also support the compromise. And so we're in this situation as I say because of that one group. Now they could even today they they could have and I guess it may be a little too late today but they could have reconvened the assembly could reconvene flat and they and they could have what they want to pass that compromise in the committee colleges wouldn't be faced with any

problem. I think what we're what where. We're trying to get through right now and what do you say to those one hundred sixty six thousand students who are going to be turned away. What do you say to the 15000 people who will face layoffs. What do you say to the 12 districts who are facing insolvency because nothing has been done for community colleges. Well the only thing I can say to them is that it's apparent from the failure of the action by the assembly Democrats and by Speaker Willie Brown to support this compromise as a result of that it appears to me that they don't really care too much about what's happening to the students and to the faculty members and the community colleges if they really did then they would have supported this compromise as did all of the other participants in this legislative and executive. Operation of state government. Where do we go from here what happens next. Given the fact that now that nothing has been done on this go around that the one hundred eight point five million wasn't put through and the fact that now the community colleges will receive 8 percent less this

year than they got last year. What happens next. Well the only things that can happen. First of all since the assembly did not call itself back into session I can consider and I have under consideration the possibilities of calling a special session but I wouldn't want to do that unless I thought that there was some reason to believe it might be successful. Otherwise we have to wait until the legislature reconvenes in January and in January the issue would be taken up again of course by that time. A lot of the damage would have been done isn't that truth. Unfortunately that's the case yes. What role do you see her community colleges in the future. California I mean some of the college leaders are questioning your commitment to community colleges. Why would you answer that. I think that they're a very integral part of our entire public educational system. I certainly want to see that community colleges thrive in California. I think everybody has to recognize again what we were faced with this year when

we came in and we had a very major budget deficit. And at the same time there was a real strong push in an effort to provide additional funding for it in the garden through 12th grade education. Now I don't think that it's unfair or unreasonable to ask that students and their families help to defray the cost. Getting an education in the community colleges you know it costs about $2000 a year for that education. And we're asking only that they be willing to pay about $50 a semester with. I might add and I think this is important. A sufficient amount of money for student aid for those students who absolutely cannot afford that that fee. One of the one of the things that these states Cantor's office has indicated that 40 percent of all the student community colleges come from families where the income is $12000 a year or less indicating that they have a large share of the low income families that the PUK community colleges that own the educational salvation the

community colleges told us that they anticipated that there might be 100000 students that might not be able to afford the fee. With the amount of money that we were willing to set aside and appropriate for student aid it would have been more than enough money to take care if there were a hundred thousand I frankly rather doubt that. But if there were there still would be enough money in student aid to take care of that. Is it your hope that they would be brought up to at least a percentage of increase that is comparable in the analogous to the K to 12 and to the state university system and to the college system that there. Increase to be analogous to the increase of giving to the other branches of education. Well again I don't think that you can generalize I think you do have to look specifically at what are the needs and what are the in terms of the resources that must be made available in order to provide a good sound basic and highly qualified program. I

would also indicate that as our economy is beginning to improve as we get out of the budget deficit situation hopefully in this next budget year we will have a little more that we can use and to deal with in terms of helping higher education at all levels. Before we leave this subject. Do I understand that you would be willing to entertain or discuss the possibility of a special session if you thought it could be productive. I guess if you asked but again now we're we're going to run into some other problems because if you want to get some emergency legislation passed it might require that it through there just might require a two thirds vote. There's some question about that so if it does require a two thirds vote then it makes it even more difficult than it was before. You talked about the critical problem facing the state of California in the area of crime and prisons. Serious overcrowding you talked about early release. What do we stand with that and what would you like to see happen.

Well we have a very urgent critical short term problem in the sense that with the tremendous overcrowding we were unable to get the legislature to agree to allow us to convert one facility in Chino that's a youth authority from the syllabi for use by adult serious offenders. They denied us that opportunity. I also said that I was willing to support the idea of allowing the governor under certain limited criteria to be able to let prisoners who are ready to be released to let them be released. Nope no earlier than 90 days from the time that they were normally going to be released. And for those who are nonviolent types of offenders to help again with the critical overcrowding and that that was also denied they rejected that. We did get the long range type of solution. So to answer your question as to what do you do immediately right now. Again we don't have a an answer we don't have the means to deal with that

critical problem immediately. We might we might find ourselves faced with a court order because there are several cases pending in the court. They may order the state to take certain action. If they do then again depending upon whether I have the authority myself or whether we have to get the legislature to go along. It will depend upon what the court requests or orders us to do to that court to say it's an explosive situation. It could be very explosive we certainly hope that it will not be but we're and the people who are there on the front line working in the prison facilities every day are doing everything that they can. But it is a most difficult at a very critical problem. California still had nine percent unemployment according to the State Employment Development Office. One million people out of work in that area. What can you do about it. Well we've been doing a number of things and I think that one of the signs if you will of the progress that we've made indicate is indicated by the

fact that today there are 200000 more Californians working than were working in January of this year. Now I don't want to say that the that our administration is totally responsible for that. I don't think the government really is the one that creates the jobs. But government can be of great assistance and we've been we've been trying to be you know we had created over the last few years in the old administration a sort of an anti-business climate. There were a lot of businesses that were afraid to stay here or were making decisions not to locate here. We have been sending the message out that the welcome mat is out. We want to be of assistance we have also been able to get some legislation passed that will help us in terms of speeding up the permit processes that businesses have to go through as they're deciding whether or not to get a project operational. There are a number of things in this area. For example for small businesses we got a law passed that will allow them to carry

forward losses over a period of two years. Not to exceed a hundred thousand dollars legislation of this kind which is designed to help to stimulate and the main thing was to demonstrate to the business community that we weren't going to operate on a deficit basis anymore and we weren't also going to increase major taxes on businesses. I think those are good sound signals that are helping now to improve the economy in our state. One of the casualties of your budget cuts were the California Public Broadcasting Commission you eliminated the budget of one point nine million. This commission interface with twenty seven radio stations public radio stations 12. Public television stations. I think the question is What do you see as the role for public broadcasting in general in the state of California. Well this is an area that is now going to be studied under some legislation that was finally finally went into the law. And

personally I am anxious to get into that a little more deeply. And the question I have in my own mind is should this state should the should the government be involved in funding of public broadcasting to the best of my knowledge of the states not involved in funding for example newspapers or or magazine enterprises or anything in the area of the media. I often hear people say you know we should keep a separation between the media and government and I and I have some real serious questions as to whether or not government should be involved at all. I think there's going to be now as a result of this legislation a careful examination of that. And if we will take a look at what the recommendations are in the findings and make a determination I mean the A-B 2074 the calls for a task or study I don't think that's that I don't recall the exact number but that is the legislation I think Senator Wilson and Senator Clinton have both joined in trying to get some kind of a

moratorium to hold off offshore oil drilling in California. Generally that's a federal issue but certainly the California governor's opinion would carry a lot of a lot of weight. What is your opinion. Well I don't support the all out moratorium. We have been in a good position to. Try to examine this whole issue on a track by track basis. And as a result of the work that we have done since our administration came in we have gotten the Department of the Interior to eliminate a large number of very very sensitive tracts in some of the areas for example in the central part of California. I think there's fairly. Good consensus of agreement that from Morro Bay on up that that there really isn't a necessity for any oil drilling in that area. But in the Central California area we have been able to get the Department of Interior to take certain steps to guarantee

that the environment will be fully protected and that the sensitive cracks will be eliminated. We are also in the process of negotiating for the area in southern California. Now from what I hear I think the Congress is going to adopt a one year moratorium. And if they decide to do that then so so be it. But I think the big difference is that under the former administration the brown administration they were just constantly opposed to any kind. Development and there were no discussions between them in the Department of Interior. We have been working with them and I think that we've been able to protect the Didn't major interests of California on that. We did have a little time left but I I want that as you look down the three years you got left. Roughly what the biggest achievement you would like to leave your legacy for California during your term of office. I think the main thing is for us to improve the quality of education in

California to have job opportunities available so that when young people do come out of the schools that they're going to be able to pursue a career of their own choice. And finally to provide more public safety for everybody in their community. Thank you on that note we're going to move along. You just heard an. Interesting a very candid discussion with the Governor thank you very much. This has been a special interview for public television with Governor George Deukmejian of the state of California. I'm Jim Cooper. Thanks for being with us.