Jim Cooper's Orange County; Orange County Priorities

The Orange County government budget this year is nine hundred and ninety million dollars. That money is used to run all the county's programs and services and to pay the salaries of the twelve thousand seven hundred people who work for the county. Budgets are the supervisors way of saying what's important what matters most. These priorities will affect the two million people who live in Orange County. Today I have a special guest the chairman and the chair Bice chairwoman of the Board of Supervisors to talk on Orange County priority. At Orange County's governmental budget nears the 1 billion dollar mark. It might give the

impression that the county is wealthy and all of its government resources. But the county has two million residents of all social and economic background and enormous problems in transportation health care housing crime and criminal justice and the need for a whole spectrum of social services priorities have to be established on who can be helped and what can be done with limited dollars. Now let's meet two key people who have to make those decisions. Roger Stanton is chairman of the five member Orange County Board of Supervisors. He serves as the supervisor from the first district and he's former Fountain Valley City Council member and educator. He's a member of last call the Orange County Transit board board of directors of the Orange County Economic Development Commission the sanitation board and the legislative planning committee. Harriet wieder is vice chairman of the Board of Supervisors serves as a supervisor in the second district. She's also chairman chairwoman of Lascaux a member of the Orange County Sanitation District and a South Coast Air Quality Management District board. She was appointed by President Reagan to the intergovernmental Advisory Council on Education. And by the

governor of the job training coordinating council she was the first woman elected to the Board of Supervisors. I think I'd like to start out by asking you before I start asking some questions about priorities I'd like to know about. I would like that each of you if you had to put the top two or three priorities on business to be addressed by the supervisors This year I started with you Mr. Stanton what would you say they would be. Let me give you just a brief two part answer first of all. Without getting into specifics in the first part of the answer I'd like to categorize priorities in terms of prevention I'm a strong believer that we can look at certain things certain acts and prevent costs from going wild and prevent problems from occurring. And I'm talking about flood protection welfare fraud prevention senior physical fitness the type of prevention programs that we're getting into now with regard to specifics on the second part of the answer. These standard problems we still face namely transportation housing. And I think some

some problems that have to do with program administration within the county. We've grown very very rapidly and we're making adjustments organizationally soem capsulize that's my priority. As we were what would you say. Well it's almost a chicken or egg kind of answer that is requested. I think that the first thing that we must address our selves to in these changing times of government's role and certainly government funding is to determine where we're going to find a stable source of funding. We've always been at the state with head and hand charged with legislative mandates that the federal government hands down to counties and local governments and so to the state. So I think that has to be direct responsibility which will mandate that we on the board of supervisors throughout the 58 throughout the state of the 58 counties work with the state legislator and closer intergovernmental working relationship. That's the big picture

that the broad We still are living with all the urban problems we have. There's one significant one of that's a positive thing I'd like to see us follow up on was the we started out a year or so ago with a vertical prosecution program that addressed the addresses the child abuse problem in our society today and I believe our county is responding to that need in so many different ways. And fortunately we had a woman Pam Myles who was in the DA's office and his subsequent became judge and that was her baby if you will. But the statistics are very exciting and it's something we've got to pick up on. Out of two hundred fifty seven cases that have come to the attention of the county one hundred forty two of those have actually been investigated and out of 142 that that's not so significant the time factor they've been able to share time. But one hundred seven result and prosecute and prosecute the victims that have come to trial and been convicted. And if that is going to set a

pattern that child abuse was not popular then the next step we take is that how about the latchkey children children left alone I mean there's some very social needs at this very urban Society of Orange County has to address along with the traditional ones that rotted out about. There's several things that have happened in this county where this county is becoming a bellwether a bellwether county and one of them is welfare fraud and I would like to talk that in a minute. But also this then by vertical prosecution I think I should tell our viewers all that simply means is that when you have a child was a victim of the child abuse you have the same prosecution mode in the same prosecutor the same staff it was all the way through whether it's from this book or it binding over to the Superior Court. You know the words from the beginning to the end rather than have them bounced around to different people as it used to be. Well but what is very significant with that you have to say right Jim what is very significant is. The child the victim has already gone through a terrible ordeal and has been traumatized. Then that trauma is repeated by

investigator after investigator and that child is bounced back and forth if you will from Pele to pillar. Yes and so that has discouraged the process and it's not made of the fact that so a couple things have happened. The child is so not so mind in our system better handle better management and the results are there and that can be a model couldn't it. It could what was happening and that could be a model to many many other counties that has already occurred you know as a model and that's an example of of what I mentioned about better managing a program and look at all of our programs for better better management before that vertical prosecution unit was instituted in the very cheap program to it was only $250000 and supports 15 people involved either directly or indirectly in the program. But the statistics that you just heard if you add to the prosecution statistics those guilty pleas as a result of better investigation you're at about a 96 percent conviction rate.

So that the odds of 50 50 percent of convicting somebody have gone to virtually 100 percent with that program. I said we talk about welfare fraud. I'm interested in that. One of the things that the county had done to try and save tax dollars but is cutting off welfare fraud I know you're very much involved with that. I see a report here that there's a federal Human Health and Human Services official have now agreed one hundred fifty thousand dollars federal study that this could become a model. This is welfare fraud. That's right that program was started as you know some 30 months ago. And in these last 30 months we have prevented or say prevented the payout for say approximately twenty four million dollars about one and a half million of that is direct County Savings. We've had investigated over 5000 cases of suspected fraud. And we're going along from the very first month all the way through the 30 months at about a 50 percent hit ratio in other words the suspect was efficient on the part of the eligibility

worker has proven true in 50 percent of those cases. And again this is an example of that prevention thing you prevent something from happening you prevent the money being paid out fraud generally money that you'll never get that money that that is gone once you pay it out and it is very very expensive in terms of the prosecution costs. So it's like preventative maintenance on your car versus remedial that breaks down and it's very difficult to repair if you have a preventative up front maintenance program. You're going to save money in the long run. We talk about a good application of money and good planning. But it seems to me that one of the difficult things in that operating against good planning is what you were talking about. Mr. Leader and that was the question of stable income. Now apparently the board of supervisors didn't know till September 16th that you were going to get this 30 million dollars which only came in the last closing days of the state legislature that that extra 30 million dollars came through as part of the six hundred fourteen million dollar package to fund counties and cities.

How do you go about planning programs when you don't know whether you're going to have 30 million 40 million 50 million dollars a day to day Jim ended with 38 percent. Revenue source comes from the state in the federal government. Yes and 23 percent comes just from property taxes. And there's no need for us to increase there. We have to take a look at the balance of that percentage of 100 percent and where do we get the revenue sources to pay that billion dollar budget to respond. Well we have been at the mercy if you were out as they said of the mandate the vagaries in the vicissitudes of the state of Sacramento. I mean of the city of circle of not just the state of Sacramento you know the legislators letting them in. You know Washington then Sacramento passed laws and legislated then the man mandated programs. That's right without that without the bag of money that goes with them. That is correct and the bank is not an irregularity. I mean the. The vagaries I say in the visit vicissitudes of whether the legislature is

or is not going to put up the packages and whether the governor will sign the bills after they do put them in. So there's a lot of uncertainty to what you're trying to do. But you see that's why one of our priorities along with fighting here is stable 37 revenue and I think the governor has Syrian support that is to work on legislation now if we have alleged legislation that we're stuck with and that we don't have the funding to implement it. And these are things we should discuss with the legislator who represents our area and we're closer to the people we have a better reading we have our fingers on the pulse of the needs that we've not done that aggressively enough. I know it's a play on words with both of you mentioned the state of Sacramento and I don't think that's too far. No. True because they the very audience acting out but very often they are a separate state separate from the rest of their constituencies. In California because what we faced this time was a reversal or a deflator clause a reversal of the bailout and we face losing twenty nine point nine million dollars. Now the problem is we don't know what that's going to happen again next year

if the economy improves. We're very hopeful that it's not going to happen. Let me point out one thing though. Every member of the Board of Supervisors in Orange County plan their budget and we passed our budget in July based on the premise that it wasn't going to happen. So that if you got it it was good news whether it was not good judgment I don't know but but we assumed that they would have the good judgment you know not to implement the deflator. Let's take a look very quickly at that chart here this is and this is a pai We're going look at several pies but this is the pie. I think that anyone from Orange County can very simply understand and that is where the money comes from out of that 990 million dollars get here and you can see the chart there. Thirty eight cents of it came from state and federal money 23 cents property tax money. You know that's that's been greatly decreased since Prop 13 when in 1978 and 39 cents from fines and penalties and interest. Now the next thing we'd like to look at We'll take a look at and I would like you to comment on this and that is the overall dollars go in the county and that's not just County dollars that go to the supervisors but all of

the facts are the flow into Orange County. So let's take a look at this other chart and this is where the overall dollars go that come in Orange County you know to the big chunk on the left is the 50 cents for the schools which again looks like a lot of money but the schools are all feeling a pension cutbacks too particularly the community colleges. Eighteen cents special districts and 15 cents county operations. Notice the 15 cents the operations are going to talk about that on our next pie 15 cent county operations. And what the supervisors can do something about. So let's take a look. Now we're going to take a look now at another chart and in just a moment we'll come back to that third one which is the Chardon county program shares and that's what that little hunk of the pie that comes out of the control of the supervisor. Let's talk about that. So let's take a look now at the kind of program shares. That's the third pie within that share 13 cents general service 30 cents. Human Services 21 cents community safety environmental management 20 cents and general administration supports 16 cents I suppose there's a case made on every

one of these. But by your staff people when they come before the supervisors to argue their budgets a case made that they need more money for their department Human Services needs more general services it needs more human the safety needs more how do you prioritize. Well that's not exactly the way it works that's the way it did in the in the old days if you will before money was so limited that is today as far as I read and so I says far as the back the tax there is. Today as you indicated that the county supervisors Lemley adopted by to survive and dead. We adopted a budget in August. Yes we're determined. We determine our priorities. Then Prior to that there is a process the department managers are executives and county government. They're told they work with the county administrative office. And they're told in what parameters to stay. And there is no business of coming hat in hand see if they need but I'm sure that they make appeals they make arguments I'm sure a good department will probably argue for but there's got to be a

track record. And that's the track record on which their recommendations are considered and what it and then two we have to say that we've already set our priorities and we spend as you showed Shallon 51 percent for health and community safety. That's really the role of county government and that's where it's at. Then you say well where how well should we assess the rest of our priorities. Should we reduce the cost it takes to run government. We have one employee for about every 190. Out of the population people who write employ this service. How do 90 people that a very concerted compare to any of the other 58 57 counties throughout the state. Of course I suppose that means that those people that you do have have a bigger workload in other words they've got to be more productive people. Mark thanks. I think there are services I mean they have a bigger caseload of social services than maybe they do in the county where they can have twice as many social service workers. Well that example I'm not sure that that you've got a situation there were there is actually an overburdening of

demand. You talk about some of the social services I understand you're going to get ahead although talked to a deputy sheriff and you find the same thing or anybody else but I think the key there is efficiency I think they are very efficient in this county. And one thing I want to go back to one of your charts you said 15 cents. We can deal with. That's really not true because of the 15 cents. A lot of that is OK. Targeted to specific programs in other words they don't still honor county operations Well sure it's not a county operations but but let me say that the code word is discretion. We do not have told discretion over that I want to you see because when we are mandated to carry out certain programs which probably account for 60 to 70 percent of what we do and we're told this is what you must do. Then we were given a subventions that are tagged on to those you know grams. Here's what you have to do. Here's the money and you know it must be our market and that money is there my SO. So the discretion is not over that entire moment what percentage do you have discretion about when all of your fifteen said

roughly. You know I would say roughly a nickel. That's what it boils down to what you can do with that is that most people don't realize that local government get the best bang for their buck. If you add the 15 cents in itself tells the story. And yes you can out of a whole dollar. So that was a commercial for local government. Let me I've got some question some priority questions I got about four or five I'd like to go through with you so I would like to get some reactions and try to cover at least the next four or five we got about 10 minutes left. Let's start first with the big headline that appeared in the paper that the County of Orange from Senator camel bill now has the potential the authority to present to voters and to see if that they can get a 1 cent sales tax which would generate something like five point seven billion dollars over 15 years under a time specific and project specific projects which allow because of the Supreme Court ruling it would allow you to have a simple majority vote that this county will either will or will not go for a

one cent sales tax. That is a good idea or bad idea to 693 Bell and what that does when you say County let me be more specific and I think we both want to be specific on that and that's the Orange County Transportation Commission that authorizes that commission to put on the ballot a measure which would which would increase the sales tax in quarter cent encroachments a quarter cent half cent three quarters up to two not even of a penny that would raise approximately one hundred fifty million dollars a year to be used for transit related operations or primarily capital projects in transit. My guess is that I'm not on the Orange County Transportation Commission but my guess is that if that happens and if it goes on the ballot and if the majority of people in this county approve that increase in sales tax you probably see roughly 65 percent of that. Going for roads that would be my prom dress would be a rail and 35 percent going to some other type of transit whatever that might be whether it

be wheels or rather it wheels a rail. And again that's capital not operations. Yes let me indicate one thing that you mention and that is the fact that the simple majority and let me ask the question before you do what about Prop 13. Yes my understanding is that there was a Supreme Court decision that ruled that this was possible since it was not a increase in existing tax but a brand new tax. So that's what it is i'm are that the strong staunch advocates of Prop 13 will still argue the case. I would not argue against that I'm simply pointing out the fact that that is only That's how you are running it as long as projects specific and time specific by a district then it can it can get by the Prop 13 and be a simple majority and I think you know that the fact that the Board of Supervisors is you know somewhat apart from this is very important it is the Orange County Transportation Commission. But before it goes on the ballot even if that commission says put it on the ballot you're going to have to have a majority of the 26 cities saying yes it can go on the ballot. And those sitting on the supervisors will have to and the supervisors in those cities

can't be just a simple majority of cities it has to be the cities that represent a majority of the population. I guess I put you on the spot. You think it's a good idea or a bad idea. I think it's a good idea to have people vote. Yeah you got it all right that you know that I'm going to vote on it. I will let you know when I decide how I'm going to vote but I tell you one thing I don't believe in politicians telling people how to vote on propositions and ballot measures. I said that to you but you were years ago when I was on one of these shows and I believe that very strongly. I think if you asked when you play with the idea of presenting viable I favor the idea of a vote very strongly I think if you have to remember the board they're going to say the people will decide and we're not going to decide for them. How would you answer that question. Good idea bad idea. The the the 1 cent sales tax. Well I think that remains to be seen. We don't know. We're not talking about just a 1 percent sales tax I think that people will want to know if you're going to increase my taxes in any way I want to know what what it's for. Yes and I want to have a say in what I think is

needed. Now there are all kinds of things damn that they're talking about how that money should be committed for us and every There's all kinds of vested interest in it and I get it I mean Hans I said maybe 65 percent rose and 35 percent and I don't even want to say those you think I want to play a numbers game event but I mean do you agree with the idea that it's a healthy step that Orange County voters will have a chance to vote on this and decide whether they want to obligate themselves for this kind of a run I think that Proposition 13 showed us politicians that the voice of the people needs to be heard on how their money is going to be spent. I said I want to. There is see what we're talking about rehab the freeways were talking about building new freeways. We're talking about a trip like Lima time might increase buses were tired by lots of things lots of things. What are the Priory is that he is premature to say it's like English that in one sense that all Texans good good for what they're saying that they would fix up to six freeways build new highways rehabilitate local streets fix up the worn out buses and so forth and but anyway it looks like oh good lord you know it was legal go they were going to flee voted to to

allow the bill to go through so that you know why is it the board is willing to allow the people to vote on it I think that's the clearest answer you can get. Very quickly let's go through some more things we've had cuts in social services per capita are we really doing the job we should do given the money we have on social services I'm talking about the large number of refugees that we have in this county. Many of whom are still on welfare What about that. Well I think that the refugee population who are here illegally People forget that the Indochinese specifically and a few others in the community were brought here by the Refugee Act of 1980 so they're here as legal residents and they fall into the same economic patterns that the other members have asked the society on welfare not on welfare so they have to they're not getting any special privileges nor should they are we doing enough. What about social services. I think we're doing everything that we have the responsibility to do in the refugee area. And I will all of which will serve us well ok but I just want to point out one thing that as

far as refugees you're looking at an area where we have to deal with what we have now I don't think it's an area where you're going to see an increase in 1081 you know one hundred fifty seven thousand come into the country in 1900 to you had 90 7000 in the country not the county. And in the last year you had 60000 and then the authorization is down 20 percent from last year for the next fiscal year. So I think you're going to see. Sort sort of a retrenchment here in let's handle the ones that are here and we're not going to have more of a problem of assimilating the new people that are coming on board in this county I think we're stabilized and we still have problems but I think we're definitely stabilized in that area. The county has before it the need for a new three hundred eighty bed jail costing fifty two million dollars supervisor Rob Clark thinks to be a good idea to set aside a 2.5 million dollar sum each year for an appeal should go so then you can tap into the matching some matching state dollars is that a good idea to give you an answer you have not thought about whether you then what you're asking about and I'm asking first of all jailers a new intake release that you're talking about a

380 bed jail cost fifty two million dollars I think you could stand there has to be whether it's the Clarks idea and I think it I know I would say it's one approach but it has to do with the business of setting our priorities. Again we need a new jail we need to expand the intake to sell anything that the president. I hope that all goes with the traffic if you will excuse the expression of an urban society into mean people which we didn't have 10 years ago. You've got an eye on the priority list and that they would you have a problem of the intake release center is already authorized and it's under designed right now and that will cost 50 million dollars that's why I think that's what we're talking about the new jails a separate issue in the intake release center will have an additional 400 beds and we're going to get probably at 80 beds probably 50 percent that's going to come from our state the bond issue that passed last year. The other 25 percent are the I'm sorry the other 25 million will have to come out other sources and supervisor Clark is talking about some type of a pay as you go but we do have a capital

accumulation fund now based on fees through the courts and we were accumulating with fact we've got 8 million dollars in there right now so I think that we are going to be able to meet our obligations for the 50 percent of that cost. So you you have a high on your priority list to the absolutely they can I'm going to design on that score it is money very important jails etc.. One thing nobody talked about yet on this program and that the other services to work with the private sector and that in this regard it's conceivable somebody in the private thank you my bill of the jail and released it from them they'll put out the cash. There's no way to do business. Governor people are buying buses now leasing a back to the county. Another another issue that continually comes up as the need for thirty nine million dollars for the court facilities a new court recently the judges talk about all of them what about that high on your priority list. I think at now it's not real high on my prior guest at our room. How would you answer that. OK I'm going to give you at least a short he's not going to hedge and I'm not going to have him give you

short term solution right now. What the state is interested in the old Orange County courthouse in Santa Ana for the appellate court purposes if they should decide not to go ahead and use that for appellate court purposes we have almost ready made for brand new not brand new as far as building but but a ready made superior court facility at roughly half the cost of what Nunes would would run so I'm not edging on telling you yes that's a priority and I see that as a very viable option to fill the gap with the next two years. We're just a few seconds left but I'd like to have you just tell me if you can get one of these things we talk about all this program one thing done where would it be this year. Well one thing that we haven't talked about that this is PIO on my priority list is to get government back to the people. And that is when a decision is made by the elected official to somehow provide for that decision to be implemented we have a new housing element now which is being challenged by a group of Los Angeles attorneys looking for attorney fees. And it's going to

hold up the implementation of the people's decision priority to return government to the people very quickly to reduce the costs continue to reduce the cost of government and left taxes to the people and make it more efficient. Private Sector venture private sector venture a little bit. Thank you very much has been very interesting talking to you our time is almost up and I want to thank both the supervisor Stan and leader for being with us and. We ask you now to join us next week when we take a look at Orange County's attack on drug part of the chemical People project. Also don't forget that on Thursday November 3rd will host a live call in special on Substance Abuse at 7:30 p.m.. I'm Jim Cooper. Thanks for being with. Us.