Fresh Air
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- Fresh Air
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- WHYY Public Media
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- WHYY (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
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- cpb-aacip/215-61rfjfh0
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- Acres of Skin Testing Back Then Changing Research Methods
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- Show: FRESH AIR Date: JULY 28, 1998 Time: 12:00 Tran: 072801NP.217 Type: FEATURE Head: Acres of Skin Sect: News; Domestic Time: 12:06 TERRY GROSS, HOST: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. You know the anti-wrinkle cream Retin-A? According to the new book "Acres of Skin," the early tests of this cream were conducted on prisoners who voluntarily rented out their bodies in return for modest payments. "Acres of Skin," written by Allen Hornblum, focuses on the use of inmates at Holmesburg Prison in Philadelphia for testing new creams, toothpastes, deodorants, foot powders and shampoos. The testing program expanded to include mind-altering drugs, dioxin, and radioactive isotopes. The architect of the prison testing program was the dermatologist who invented Retin-A, Dr. Albert Kligman (ph). He was also a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Holmesburg was one of the many prisons around the country that allowed its inmates to be used as medical guinea pigs. This practice was outlawed in 1974 after congressional hearings led by Ted Kennedy. Author Allen Hornblum has served on the Board of Trustees of the Philadelphia Prison System and the Pennsylvania Crime Commission and now teaches criminal justice and urban studies at Temple University. He first found out about the medical experiments in the early '70s when he was teaching at the Philadelphia Detention Center, which was part of Dr. Kligman's testing program. ALLEN HORNBLUM, CRIMINAL JUSTICE EXPERT, AUTHOR, "ACRES OF SKIN: HUMAN EXPERIMENTS AT HOLMESBURG PRISON": I walked into the Philadelphia Detention Center on a very hot September morning in 1971 to begin teaching adult literacy program. And one of the first things that struck me were the scores of inmates who were walking around with bandages, gauze pads, adhesive tape on their arms and chest and back. I had never seen a large-scale clinic experiment. So I thought it could have come from a cellblock riot, some sort of gang warfare in the prison yard. And the next day, I asked the guy what was the story here. And he said, "Oh, that's nothing. That's just the perfume tests for the University of Pennsylvania." And I was dumbfounded by this and very skeptical. But that's what everybody told me. GROSS: How did you find out that these tests were also being run at Holmesburg Prison? HORNBLUM: I was told immediately that what we had at Philadelphia Detention Center was mild in comparison to Holmesburg. They told me that three out of four prisoners were on one experiment or the other. And the guards were equally dubious. But it had been going on for years. And they grew tired of my questions, quite frankly, because I was the one who was new in the prison system, not the experiments. By the time I had walked into the prison in 1971, those experiments were two decades old. GROSS: Give us the big picture what kinds of medicines or products, ingredients, were being tested on prisoners at Holmesburg? HORNBLUM: You could find any and everything at Holmesburg that you would find in your medicine cabinet. They were testing hair dyes, soaps, deodorants, detergents, athlete's foot medication, skin creams of every kind. It really was a marketplace that the pharmaceutical companies and the chemical companies were attracted to because there were so many prisoners who were cheap and available at the time. GROSS: And there were other studies too that were done? HORNBLUM: Yes, in later years, the program took on such wide acceptance by people in both the private and public sector that you had tobacco companies asking to have their protocols operationalized there. You had major chemical companies, like Dow Chemical was testing dioxin on the prisoners. You even had chemical warfare studies for the Army and the CIA that went through the 1960s. GROSS: Tell us something about the doctor who was the architect of the program, Dr. Albert Kligman. HORNBLUM: Dr. Kligman is still with us today. He's 82 years old. And he's arguably the most famous dermatologist in the country. He has a worldwide reputation. Many people know him because he's the father of Retin-A, the very successful anti-acne, anti-wrinkle cream. Dr. Kligman was a fascinating physician in the post-war period. Many young scholars and students came to Penn just to train under him. He was a great raconteur. He was a spellbinding lecturer. In his private life, he was a horseback rider. He was a balloon enthusiast. He flew planes. He played tennis. He was a gymnast in college. He was very colorful compared to most of the stayed men in the field. GROSS: Now how did Dr. Kligman end up using prisoners as people to test products on? HORNBLUM: Well, he first walked into the prison, as I understand it, in 1951 to take a look at an outbreak of athlete's foot, which periodically occurred in the prison. Some of the medical people in the prison had caught notice of a couple of articles on fungi written by this University of Pennsylvania professor. So they contacted him. And he decided he would go up there and take a look at it. But when he walked through the front doors, he was just amazed. As he said, he felt like a farmer seeing a fertile field. He did not see people. He did not see prisoners. He saw acres of skin, which is where the title of the book comes from. These are his own terms. And he said that they were an anthropoid colony that was perfect for dermatologic study. And from that day on, he was in there for nearly the next quarter-century. GROSS: Allen Hornblum is my guest, author of the new book "Acres of Skin" about medical testing on prisoners. How were prisoners recruited for these medical tests? HORNBLUM: In many cases, they were directed there by other prisoners who told folks, "This is where you could earn some money." Some of the social workers told the prisoners, "If you're desperate for money, this is where you can go. And you can be on an experiment, and they will pay you." There could have been some items placed on billboards. But basically, it was word of mouth. And it got around very substantially. And the men who were in the prison were desperate to earn a few bucks. If you were lucky enough to get a prison job -- selling clothes, making shoes, cleaning a cell block -- you would get all of 15 cents a day, 25 cents a day. It was really a pittance. However, if you were an experimental guinea pig, you could make a buck a day, $1.50, $2.00, depending upon the experiment that you embarked on. So it was really princely wages compared to what the history of the prison paid out. GROSS: A lot of people wonder, why do prisoners need money when they're locked up? HORNBLUM: What people don't understand is wherever you are in society, and basically whatever country, you are better off if you have money. And that includes prisoners. You have to understand that Holmesburg Prison, then as it was throughout its 100 years, it was a county facility where overwhelmingly the people who were there were unsentenced, untried. They were technically innocent. So if you could raise a few bucks, you may be able to pay your bail. Or you may be able to hire an attorney to represent you, or just to go down to the commissary and buy some Tastee Kakes (ph), some cigarettes, some other candy food items, things like that. So if you had money, you'd be in a better position. GROSS: So the prisoners got money in return for loaning their bodies to science? HORNBLUM: They were not doing it for altruistic reasons or patriotism or anything else. GROSS: Were there consent forms that they had to sign? HORNBLUM: There were consent forms or waiver forms. I have a couple of them, one from the mid-'60s and one from the early '70s. And they basically state that, "I the undersigned give up any legal right to sue the doctors, the University of Pennsylvania, or the prison system if anything untoward should occur in the experiment." GROSS: What were the prisoners told by the doctors who were running the tests? HORNBLUM: At most they would be told that maybe you're going to be testing an analgesic and it may have this effect. And if anything goes wrong, we'll be here to take care of you. It was very brief, very superficial. You have to also understand that the prisoners were unsophisticated, uneducated. By the time I was there, they were overwhelmingly African American. And they were not particularly well-adept at handling such questions or even raising them. You know, you could tell them they're testing an analgesic and they wouldn't have any idea, you know, what you were talking about. I was there to teach. So I knew their education level. Very few had graduated high school. Most had dropped out of school in 9th or 10th grade, which meant they were basically on a sixth-grade reading level. GROSS: What were some of the typical side-effects that the prisoners testing the drugs experienced? HORNBLUM: Well, what I saw when I interviewed them were lots of scars and discolorations. One inmate I tracked down at Holmesburg took off his shirt and showed me all sorts of scars and discolorations on his back. He also showed me two large incisions, scars, on each side of his abdomen where he was brought in for a test, two doctors laid him down on a gurney. They cut him open on each side. They then packed him with gauze pads and some medication. They sewed him up and sent him on his way. This was without, according to the inmate, any anesthesia or anesthetic. They brought him back 10 days later. And they reopened one wound and took out the packing, sewed him up again and sent him on his way. Ten days later, they did the same thing on the other side. He never knew what the test was about. He never knew what they put in him or why it was done. All he knows is he got 10 dollars for each slice. GROSS: Now when it came to the dermatological tests, the patch tests, to see how your skin would react to different ointments and chemicals, one prisoner gave you this comment. The comment was basically, you know, "Big deal, so I'm rubbing some ointments on my back. You know, maybe it will blister. I spent half my life shooting heroin into my veins. So why should I worry about, you know, a few creams and ointments and some itching." Was that a typical comment? HORNBLUM: Many told me that. This one particular prisoner was up in years who was a very wily con, and in fact, was my age through many of the early years there. But there were other inmates who were genuinely fearful of the tests and did it only under duress. They needed money. And this was the only way to get it. But yes, there were many inmates who felt that the doctors were wearing white coats. They were well-educated. They were from a prestigious university in the city. They said that these tests would not harm them. They believed them, and they took part in the experiments. GROSS: You point out in your book that prisoners, some of the prisoners, were the most ardent advocates for keeping the system in place because it was helping them get money which they very much wanted to get. HORNBLUM: Absolutely. In fact, when the experiments were curtailed in Philadelphia in 1974, the prisoners signed a petition. Overwhelmingly, they wanted them back. And they were upset with the individuals who tried to stop the experimentation. These prisoners were willing to gamble on the health risks to make a few dollars. GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is Allen Hornblum. We're talking about his new book "Acres of Skin: Human Experiments at Holmesburg Prison." This is the story of how prisoners were used in the '50s, '60s and '70s for experimental medical research. And it happened not just in prisons in Pennsylvania but really in prisons all around the country. Let's take a short break, and then we'll talk some more. This is FRESH AIR. (BREAK) My guest is Allen Hornblum. His new book is called "Acres of Skin." And it's about how prisoners in the '50s, '60s and '70s were used as human guinea pigs. How did the FDA ban medical testing on prisoners? HORNBLUM: Well, you had it arise in the early '70s a universal recognition that maybe we were doing the wrong thing. There were doctors in the medical community that started to bring up the red flag that doctors were committing some heresy here in treating people as animals. You had some exposs taking place, such as the Tuskegee Syphilis study was exposed in 1972. That alarmed a great many people. There were a lot of hearings taking place. You had the rise of lawsuits coming about. So there were a number of things happening by the early '70s that sensitized folks in different areas that these experiments on retarded children, on prisoners, on other vulnerable populations, should not take place any longer. And the FDA and other government agencies finally had to put their foot down. The Federal Prison System said no more testing of federal prisoners. Individual city and states were doing the same thing. And the FDA and the Department of Health and Human Resources came up with their own guidelines that precluded the use of prisoners. GROSS: Did you come across any prisoners who were still suffering with long-term consequences from the medical tests? HORNBLUM: I had prisoners tell me that they had rashes and they had blackouts and they weren't thinking properly. But quite frankly, there's no way to tell if that emanates from the experiments. The prisoners were used literally as guinea pigs. They were pulled out of a cell or a cage, they were monitored and examined for a short period of time. But after the study was over, they were forgotten about. Getting back to Dr. Kligman's, you know, response to this investigation, there was no long-term study. There was no longitudinal study as to what the effects would be over a period of years. Twenty, 25 years have gone by now, more in some cases. Nobody has followed the progression of these individuals. The dioxin study, for example, we know that there were, you know, several dozen prisoners. It may be the only case on record where the scientific community purposely applied dioxin, a known carcinogen, to the faces and backs of prisoners. What's the long-term effect of that? What's the long-term effect of having radioactive isotopes injected into you, or being exposed to these incapacitants. We do not know, because when the prisoners were released from Holmesburg, either because they were sent to another prison or they were found innocent and sent home, nobody bothered to follow up on them. GROSS: What happened to Dr. Kligman's medical records, the doctor who ran many of these tests? HORNBLUM: The doctor has said over time that some of them were destroyed in a prison fire. Some, he got rid of. Some were lost. He says he no longer has any records from that period. GROSS: Now I know you used the Freedom of Information Act to get files that would be helpful in your research. What did you learn through the Freedom of Information Act? HORNBLUM: Well, I learned that it was invaluable. If I did not have that, this book would be a very cursory tale just based on the recollections of the doctors, the medical technicians, the guards and the inmates. The documents showed me basically what took place there. They showed me, for example, in the way of radioactive materials that I got from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission what radioactive isotopes Dr. Kligman was bringing into the institution. It shows me, with regard to the Army documents, how they ran the program, what their concerns were. They themselves were upset with Dr. Kligman's operation and told him he'd better come up to speed, he'd better hire certain people. They tell me what chemicals were being brought in, what dosages were being used. So they were really invaluable to me. And I had to really apply a full-court press on many different government agencies because, as I said before, there were so many different, varying experiments that Dr. Kligman was doing. It was not just dermatological studies. They were doing psychotropic drugs. They were doing
- Description
- HALF: Allen Hornblum Leotis Jones TEN: Dr. Bernard Ackerman Dr. Richard Tannen
- Description
- Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. Each week, nearly 4.5 million people listen to the show's intimate conversations broadcast on more than 450 National Public Radio (NPR) stations across the country, as well as in Europe on the World Radio Network. Though Fresh Air has been categorized as a "talk show," it hardly fits the mold. Its 1994 Peabody Award citation credits Fresh Air with "probing questions, revelatory interviews and unusual insights." And a variety of top publications count Gross among the country's leading interviewers. The show gives interviews as much time as needed, and complements them with comments from well-known critics and commentators. Fresh Air is produced at WHYY-FM in Philadelphia and broadcast nationally by NPR.
- Description
- INT. 1A: ALLEN HORNBLUM is an expert in criminal justice and is the author of the book, "Acres of Skin: Human Experiments at Holmesburg Prison" (Routledge). The book is about the use of prisoners as guinea pigs in the 1950s thru the mid 1970s at the Holmesburg Prison in Philadelphia. The prisoners were used to test products like facial creams, skin moisturizers, perfumes, detergents and anti-rash treatments. But they were also the subjects of experiments using more hazardous substances. The experiments were carried out by doctors at the University of Pennsylvania. INT. 1B:Former inmate LEOTIS JONES. He participated in the experiments and later led the fight to end the testing program by testifying at the U.S. Senate hearings that resulted in the banning of such experiments. (MORE RELATED INTERVIEWS IN THE 2ND HALF OF THE SHOW). INT. 2A: Dermatologist BERNARD ACKERMAN, Professor of Dermatology and Path Director of the Institute for Dermatophathology at Jefferson College. He participated in the testing done at Holmsburg Prison. INT. 2B:Dermatologist RICHARD TANNEN and current Vice Dean for Research and Research Training at the University of Pennsylvania Health System discusses their current research and testing guidelines.
- Media type
- Sound
- Duration
- 01:01:35
- Credits
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: Allen Hornblum
: Leotis Jones
: Dr. Bernard Ackerman
: Dr. Richard Tannen
Distributor: NPR
Producing Organization: WHYY Public Media
- AAPB Contributor Holdings
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WHYY
Identifier: 1998 0728 Allen Hornblum, Leotis Jones_Dr. Bernard Ackerman, Dr. Richard Tannen.wav (File Name)
Format: audio/vnd.wave
Duration: 01:01:35
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- Citations
- Chicago: “Fresh Air,” WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 8, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-61rfjfh0.
- MLA: “Fresh Air.” WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 8, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-61rfjfh0>.
- APA: Fresh Air. Boston, MA: WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-61rfjfh0