Fresh Air
- Program
- Fresh Air
- Producing Organization
- WHYY Public Media
- Contributing Organization
- WHYY (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
- AAPB ID
- cpb-aacip/215-04rjdhh5
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, or if you have concerns about this record, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip/215-04rjdhh5).
- Description
- Description
- Interview: Musicians Zac and Ethan Holtzman of Dengue Fever discuss their new album, "Venus on Earth" Review: TV critic David Bianculli on 80th Annual Academy Awards and return of "Saturday Night Live" Review: Book critical Maureen Corrigan on "Fanon: A Novel" by John Edgar Wideman
- Description
- DATE February 25, 2008 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A NETWORK NPR PROGRAM Fresh Air Interview: Musicians Zac and Ethan Holtzman of Dengue Fever discuss their new album, "Venus on Earth" TERRY GROSS, host: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. We're going to hear some terrific music with an amazing back story. During the war in Vietnam, American and British pop music was broadcast on the US Armed Forces Radio Network. The music was heard in Cambodia, where it inspired a hybrid of American pop and Cambodian music. At that time, the king of Cambodian music was Sinn Sisamouth. He and his singing partner, Ros Sereysothea, had many hits singing in the traditional style backed by music that sounded like psychedelic surf rock. When the Pol Pot regime took over in 1975, most of the Western-influenced musicians were killed, the music was banned and recordings destroyed. Decades later, Zac and Ethan Holtzman discovered this Cambodian pop of the '60s and '70s and decided to create a band inspired by the music. These two American brothers named their band Dengue Fever. While looking for the right singer, they found Chhom Nimol, a Cambodian woman who had recently moved to LA. Dengue Fever's first record was mostly covers of Cambodian pop. Their new CD, "Venus on Earth," is originals. Before we meet Ethan, the keyboard player, and Zac, the guitarist who also writes the songs and sings, here's a track from "Venus on Earth." (Soundbite of music) Ms. CHHOM NIMOL: (Singing in foreign language) (End of soundbite) GROSS: That's the band Dengue Fever. Ethan Holtzman, Zac Holtzman, welcome to FRESH AIR. I'm among the many Americans who, until we decided to have you on the show, never really thought at all about Cambodian pop and hadn't heard any, so I'm really interested in hearing how you became familiar with Cambodian pop. And, Ethan, maybe the best place to start is with your trip to Cambodia a few years ago. Mr. ETHAN HOLTZMAN: Yeah, that was back in 1997 and '98. I'd spent about half a year backpacking around Southeast Asia, and Cambodia was one of the countries I visited. And I just stumbled upon the music on that trip, and I was just blown away. And I started to buy as many cassette tapes as I could. And when I returned home, my brother had moved back from San Francisco, and it just so happened he had been listening to some compilations that he'd gotten from Aquarius Records in San Francisco that was also Cambodian rock 'n' roll. So it was really a major coincidence, that we were listening to this obscure body of work at the same time. GROSS: Zac, why did you start listening to Cambodian pop? Mr. ZAC HOLTZMAN: My friend...(unintelligible)...who worked at Aquarius, he laid some of that stuff on me, and that was how I first started listening to it. And, yeah, when I moved down to LA and we were just kind of sitting around, we were just like, `Man, what if we sort of brought back this style of music?' Because it ended prematurely, you know, with the Khmer Rouge coming in and, you know, sadly killing off all the artists and musicians. GROSS: Well, yeah, literally. I mean, I think a lot of people who you listen to on cassette died under the Khmer Rouge. Is that right? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. Anybody who, you know, had any Western influence or, you know, didn't--wore glasses or didn't have calluses on their hands or were educated at all was pretty much killed. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. A third of the population died during the Khmer Rouge, which was roughly around two million people. GROSS: And how did the Western pop that influenced the Cambodian pop singers reach there in the first place? How did they hear American garage rock and surf music? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Well, from what I've been told, it was mainly because the Vietnam War, a lot of the soldiers were getting it broadcasted on the radios over there, so it just bled across the border into Cambodia. And then the Cambodians, mainly Sinn Sisamouth, he kind of took that music and then added traditional Khmai elements of the music; and they just completely transformed it and took it to this amazing level. GROSS: Well, you know, I asked you to bring an example of the kind of Cambodian pop that you heard, Ethan, on your trip to Cambodia in the late '90s; and one of the things you sent was a song that you've also covered on one of you albums. So I thought we'd hear them both back to back, but I want you to tell us about the song first. The song is called "Shave Your Beard," so we're going to hear like the original Cambodian version and then hear your cover of it. Tell us about the song and the person singing the original. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: All right. Well, the song "Shave Your Beard," it was really--it was just so funny because we had been listening to that one. We didn't know what the subject matter was; and we brought it to Nimol and some of her Cambodian friends and they started translating it, and it turns out it's "Shave Your Beard." And it just so happens that my brother's got about a foot-and-a-half-long beard, so it was like, whoa, this song we like, it's like the subject matter is, you know, kind of--it seemed to touch home. The singer on that song is Ros Sereysothea. She worked a lot with Sinn Sisamouth during the '60s and '70s. Both of them perished from the Khmer Rouge. But she was coined "the golden voice of Cambodia." GROSS: So they both died. Both of these singers that you mentioned died under the Khmer Rouge? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, unfortunately. GROSS: So we're going to hear the original, back to back with yours. What do you think you're doing different from the original? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: I think just the fact that we're recording, you know, with modern recording equipment, it definitely--we have more control of what's going on. I think maybe the Cambodians, when they recorded that song, possibly had a microphone or two just in a room and they played. But there's something really special about that original version because, once again, it's in Khmai, Cambodian, so you can't understand it. But there's a part were Ros Sereysothea sings, you know, the la la... (Singing) La-la-la-la-la la. (Speaking) I'm not a singer, sorry. But she sings that and it just like that was really gripping. It was like this is a great song because, you know, you can't understand it but you can still--that little melody part, it just felt very comfortable. GROSS: I'm glad you mentioned that because I really love that part. There's like this little la-la-la, yeah, yeah, yeah thing. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: (Singing) La-la-la-la, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, that's Zac. That's a little better. GROSS: That's it. Yeah. That's it. It's so great to hear this Cambodian singing stuff that's obviously influenced by all kinds of Western pop. So all right. So we'll hear the original version and then the Dengue Fever version, back to back. (Soundbites of "Shave Your Beard") Ms. ROS SEREYSOTHEA: (Singing in foreign language) Ms. NIMOL: (Singing in foreign language) (End of soundbites) GROSS: That was two recordings of the song "Shave Your Beard," back to back. First we heard the Cambodian singer Ros Sereysothea, and then we heard the cover version by Dengue Fever, which is a band based in LA. And the lead singer from that band is Cambodian and she lives in the LA area. And my guests are the two founders of the band, brothers Ethan Holtzman and Zac Holtzman. Ethan plays keyboards and Zac is featured on guitars and also does vocals on many of the tracks. Well, that was great to hear back to back. And, you know, the singer in your band, Chhom Nimol, is--she has such a wonderful voice. How did you discover her? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Well, we had the idea, you know, to start the band; and so in Long Beach we learned that there's a huge population of Cambodians, about 50,000. And there's all these night clubs where they serve dinner and there's a house band that plays. And so we started driving down there and going to these nightclubs and having dinner and watching the bands play. And then we eventually made it to the best club, which at the time was Dragon House. And we walked in and the band was playing, and every time--we were always like the only, you know, American or white people coming into the club, so we always like got a lot of looks and stuff. But anyway, the band was playing and there was about six female singers up onstage, all kind of taking turns on the mike. And then when Nimol came on the mike, we were just like, `Oh my God.' I was just elbowing my brother. And so afterwards we approached her and gave her the disc of songs we wanted to possibly do together, and at the time she was only able to say "hello" and "thank you." Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: And "yes." Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: And yes. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Everything was yes. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Do you want to join our band? `Yes, thank you.' So then somebody was pretending to kind of be her manager and he spoke more English. And so what it came down to, we were having tryouts down in Long Beach a few weeks later and we had about like half a dozen girls who were going to audition for it. And we sort of told them that maybe Chhom Nimol might show up; and they were like, `No, Chhom Nimol, no. No, she too famous.' And we're like, `Well, I don't know. She might. She told us she might show up.' And luckily she showed up. And so that was the beginning of the band. GROSS: What's she famous for? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Well, she's like, you know, third generation of a musical family. And she's performed for the king and queen of Cambodia a couple times. Her family is kind of like the Jacksons of Cambodia. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, I mean, one example of her fame is, when we traveled to Cambodia as a band and it was like--she was so busy singing on TVs and everything that we didn't know where she was. You just turned on the TV and change the channels and she'd be on one of the channels performing. So it was sort of like, you know, everywhere she went in Cambodia she's recognized and known. And that kind of transfers over to the States, too, now because at a lot of our shows we'll get a good mix of people; but there's usually like--in different cities, there will be a lot of Cambodians that come and support and they just adore Nimol. They want to take pictures with her and surround her and spend as much time with her as possible. GROSS: So what happened to her family during the Pol Pot-Khmer Rouge era? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: They luckily moved over to Thailand, and so Nimol spent a lot of time growing up in Thailand. And actually her older sister didn't make it back to Thailand with them and they thought that she was lost, you know, to the whole madness. But one day when they were living in Thailand, they were listening to the radio and they heard her sister performing on the radio, and she was singing like these, you know, like political kind of songs. So they were like just crying with joy because they realized that she made it. GROSS: My guests are Zac and Ethan Holtzman, the founders of the band Dengue Fever. Their new CD is called "Venus on Earth." More after a break. This is FRESH AIR. (Announcements) GROSS: My guests are Zac and Ethan Holtzman. Their band Dengue Fever is inspired by Cambodian pop of the '60s and '70s. Their lead singer, Chhom Nimol, is from Cambodia and now lives in LA. What can Chhom Nimol do technically that you think most American singers can't? And what's happening musically in Cambodian music that you think is different from American music? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: I mean, I think there's something to say that's about Nimol's voice, it's, you know, having the lyrics sung in Khmai, it's just, that on it's own is just very unique and special. She's just--it's real snake-y and she's able to hit high notes that we aren't really accustomed to. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, they kind--she kind of--they do a lot of like snaking around and like dipping into other--hinting into other notes, kind of bending, and then they'll crack into a falsetto. GROSS: Mm-hmm. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Which in Cambodian, they call it a ghost voice. And so it's kind of, you know, it's similar to the stuff you hear from India, also. GROSS: Well, you've been writing some songs for her in English, in addition to writing songs that she translates into the Cambodian language. I thought I'd play a duet between her and you, Zac. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: OK. GROSS: And this is called "Tiger Phone Card." Maybe you could talk a little bit about writing the song and then we'll hear it. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Well, I sort of, yeah, when I write songs I tend to put things that are happening in my life into them and also I'll pull from any good situations that are happening to people I know. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: "Tiger Phone Card" is about, the way I interpret it, it's about the director of our documentary, John Pirozzi. He was living in New York and he was dating a Cambodian girl who lived in Phnom Penh. And it was sort of like the difficulties of a long distance relationship. GROSS: Well, that's definitely what the song is about. So this is Dengue Fever from their new album, which is called "Venus on Earth." The song is "Tiger Phone Card," and we'll hear Chhom Nimol on vocals duetting with Zac Holtzman, who is also featured on guitar and vocals. And Zac and my other guest, Ethan Holtzman, are brothers. Ethan is featured on keyboards. (Soundbite from "Tiger Phone Card") Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: (Singing) You live in Phnom Penh Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) You live in New York City Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN and Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) But I think about you so, so, so So much I forget to eat Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: (Singing) It's 4 AM, I check my e-mail Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) I'm too keyed up to fall asleep Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN and Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) So I write you back And count the days until we'll be together Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) The first thing that I've done Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN and Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) Is throw my arms around you Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: (Singing) And never let go Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) And never let go Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: (Singing) I call you from my hotel room I'm sitting on the hallway floor I know that we are so, so, so, So tired, my phone...(unintelligible)...expired Ms. NIMOL: (Singing) You only call me when you're drunk I can tell it by your voice It's the only time that you open up to me And tell me that you love me The first thing that I've done... (End of soundbite) GROSS: That's the band Dengue Fever, and my guests are the founders of the band, Ethan Holtzman, who's featured on keyboards, and Zac Holtzman who plays guitar and also sings. That was him duetting with the Cambodian singer Chhom Nimol. Zac, you're so great with Chhom Nimol because she has this like ethereal voice and there's something so like down to earth about your singing. You know, it's such a nice contrast. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. I try to not, you know, I let her do all the fancy frills and embellishments, and I'll just kind of be the bass. GROSS: It was not long after you started performing together that she was arrested and detained for 22 days, I think it was because her green card had expired. And this was a few year ago, like 2002, I think, during one of the orange alerts. What happened? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Oh, we had played a show in San Diego, California, with Jonathan Richmond that night. We were all excited because it was a lot of fun. And Nimol and I were driving back on the 5, and there was just so--we were the only car on the road. It was probably, you know, quarter to 2 in the morning. And there's a little checkpoint because we're close to the Mexican border; and it was, like you said, a code orange alert. So we pull up and a police officer shines a flashlight in the car, and he like makes me roll down the window and says, you know, `I need some ID.' And so I pulled out my ID. And then he looked at Nimol and he's all, `Do you have some ID?' And she was like, `Oh, yeah.' And all she had was her passport and it was, yeah, she had a tourist visa that had expired. So we explained to the officer, you know, that we were in the process of improving the situation, trying to make it work. But he just took her away and, yeah, she had to stay 22 nights in a jail until we had--we did a bunch of fundraisers, so we were able to cover legal fees to get her out so she could stay and perform with us. GROSS: Was she shaken by the detainment? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: You know, she was sad. But I think, you know, I think the people that she was with, they were--mainly they--she said she met a wide variety of people. There were some Russian ladies and a lot of Latinas; and she said she would sing to them and they liked her for that. But she said that she was--just mainly the food, she didn't like the food. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: She could never eat burritos again. GROSS: Zac and Ethan Holtzman founded the band Dengue Fever. Their new CD is called "Venus on Earth." They'll be back in the second half of the show. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR. (Announcements) GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross, back with Zac and Ethan Holtzman, founders of the band Dengue Fever. The band is inspired by Cambodian pop music of the '60s and '70s. Ethan fell in love with the music while traveling through Cambodia a few years ago. Dengue Fever's lead singer, Chhom Nimol, is a Cambodian woman who's famous there and has lived in LA for about eight years. Dengue Fever's new CD is called "Venus on Earth." Let's hear a track from it called "Mr. Orange." (Soundbite of "Mr. Orange") Ms. NIMOL: (Singing in foreign language) (End of soundbite) GROSS: That's the band Dengue Fever, with the Cambodian singer Chhom Nimol. Let's get back to our interview with the founders of the band, brothers Zac and Ethan Holtzman. Well, you went to Cambodia in 2005 to tour with your band Dengue Fever and with Chhom Nimol on vocals. It was kind of a historic tour. What made it historic? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: I think it was historic because, to my knowledge, we were the first band, the first Western band, you know, performing Cambodian rock 'n' roll in Cambodia. And from what we learned, there weren't a lot of other bands there doing anything like what we were doing. So we were hoping to inspire some of the kids there, and we performed with a lot of the children that were amazing at singing and dancing. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: And everyone knew that Nimol had, you know, moved to Los Angeles, and they were wondering what she was going to come back sounding like. And they sort of assumed that she was going to come back all like Westernized. But when she brought us all back there with her and we were, whatever, Cambodianized, they were all pretty impressed and proud of Nimol staying true to her roots. And she got a lot of phone calls from people from like all different generations of people who were so proud of her for keeping the music going. GROSS: The kind of Cambodian pop that inspired you basically died during the Pol Pot era when so many people were killed or starved to death, and so many of the artists were killed or starved to death. How much of a memory is there now of that music? And are there any people who played it in the '60s and survived and are playing it again? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: You know, yeah, the music--Cambodia almost lost the entire body of work and a lot of their culture. It was on the verge of becoming extinct and vanishing; but a lot of people, they had collections of LPs and some cassette tapes and they compiled it and they started to build this library of music that was from the period of, you know, the '60s and into the '70s. I think it was around '75 when everything stopped because of the Khmer Rouge. And the Cambodian people, they still listen to that, the music that inspired us: Sinn Sisamouth and Rosa Sereysothea, Pen Ron. They listen to it the same way that, in American, we listen to classic rock. It's on the radio there. The kids know it as well as the grandparents. GROSS: Would you tell us one of your favorite stories from that tour of Cambodia? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: When I first got there, I got there before the rest of the band and was trying to line up some shows for us to play. And I went out to dinner with about a dozen of the people who worked for the main television station in Cambodia, which is called CTN, Cambodian Television Network. And they were kind of like trying to, you know, see what kind of person I was and see if they wanted to have us on their show or not. And we went out to dinner, and they were like, `Why don't you go up and sing with the band in Khmai?' Because there's a few songs that I sing in Khmai. And so I'm like, `OK.' And I like got up and sang a song with this band I'd never played with before. And then that went all right. And then I sat down, and they poured this huge goblet of booze, of Johnnie Walker. And this guy balanced these chopsticks off the edge of the table. And he was like saying if he could break the chopsticks with two fingers in like, you know, a quick sort of karate chop style without the chopsticks flying off the table, I had to drink that goblet. And I'm like, `No, I don't want to bet you because you wouldn't make this bet if you couldn't do it.' And eventually he got frustrated and just went ahead and busted the chopsticks. And then he put the other shortened version off the table and he's like, `Now I break and then you drink.' And then I basically realized that it was part of my initiation. They wanted me to drink--there was no way I was getting out of it, you know. And so he--I'm all, `OK, I bet you.' And so he snapped the chopsticks for a second time and then I got up and drank that whole goblet. And then they all started clapping their hands and singing the song that I had just sung with the other band. So that was one of my most memorable moments of the trip. GROSS: Ethan, do you have a favorite story from the tour? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. I think, you know, we played this show at the Basak stage, and it's like a shanty town. And it was, I mean, I don't think we'll ever play another show like it. It was so bizarre. And they actually tore the stage down, unfortunately. But it's like this stage that was built of crazy car headlights, and it kind of looked like a carnival ride. And then the villagers just, you know, probably over a thousand villagers just came in; and it was just threatening rain, and it was really, you know, it was like this dark sky. And the sound system was insane. The speakers were, you know, just a collection of whatever they could get; and there guys soldering wires on the side of the stage and people hooking up lights above. They would hold a ladder in their hands to extend it. So there's a man holding a ladder and another guy would climb up it and get to the top and, you know, just wire up the lights. So I mean, that show was--it was really touching because we got to really perform, you know, just to the general public of Cambodia. I mean, I don't think, you know--that was special, special time for us. And we performed with the kids of the Cambodian Living Arts, so they came out and did a song with us and... Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Maybe you should say, the Cambodian Living Arts is a group that's trying to preserve traditional Cambodian music and teaching it to the kids. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. So we performed with the kids together, and it was just--the audience was just, they were just tripped out by the whole experience. They were like, `What are these people doing looking at us?' But then you could tell that they were really touched by it. GROSS: My guests are Zac and Ethan Holtzman, the founders of the band Dengue Fever. Their new CD is called Venus on Earth. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR. (Announcements) GROSS: My guests are Zac and Ethan Holtzman. Their band, Dengue Fever, is inspired by Cambodian pop of the '60s and '70s. Their lead singer, Chhom Nimol, is from Cambodia and now lives in LA. On your new album you play originals, but on your first album you did a lot of covers of the Cambodian pop songs that first inspired you to listen to and then play Cambodian pop. So I thought we'd hear another one of those covers. And this is called "I'm 16." Before we hear your version, just tell us a little bit about the original recording, who sang it and what you loved about it. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: The original "I'm 16," "Dop-Pramp Muy," it's Ros Sereysothea singing, and it's actually--it's a song that comes after another song. The first song is called "Wait 10 Months," so it's like a romantic thing. It's like the girl telling the boy, `Wait 10 months and I'll be ready.' And this song, "I'm 16," she's 16 so now she's like, `I'm old enough now.' So it's kind of interesting the way that they have songs that kind of go in sequence. And that song, "I'm 16," I actually--it was one of the original songs that I heard on my first trip there. While my friend was in the front of the truck--I was driving from Siem Reap to Phnom Penh--and I kept sticking my head through the back of the track saying, `Hey, how you feeling?' Because he was coming on with dengue fever. And the tape that was looping was playing some of these songs that we covered, like "New Year's Eve" and "I'm 16." GROSS: So is that why you called the band Dengue Fever? Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Yeah. Just, yeah, it just kind of fit. GROSS: OK. So this is the band Dengue Fever playing the Cambodian pop song "I'm 16," and Chhom Nimol is featured on vocals. (Soundbite of "I'm 16") Ms. NIMOL: (Singing in foreign language) (End of soundbite) GROSS: That's music from Dengue Fever's first album, which was called "Dengue Fever." My guests are the two founders of the band, Ethan Holtzman and Zac Holtzman. Ethan plays keyboards. Zac is featured on guitar and also does a lot of vocals. And the main singer in the group, Chhom Nimol, is from Cambodia but now lives in the Los Angeles area. Since your band is called Dengue Fever, I should ask you what the symptoms are. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Oh, the symptoms of dengue fever is a fever and then like a bone crushing pain. A lot of people get over it within a week. If you get it twice, I think, it can be more dangerous. Basically it's--you get it from a daytime mosquito bite. GROSS: And do you worry that when you travel throughout Cambodia you might come down with the name of your band? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: I was worried, yeah, when we were there. GROSS: Wouldn't that be horrible? Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: That would be bad. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Yeah, we were just dousing ourselves with DEET and mosquito repellant. GROSS: Uh-huh. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: And keeping our sleeves on and just being careful because, you know, it's fairly common over there. A lot of people do get it. GROSS: Well, here's to the survival of the band and the hopes that you never come down with dengue fever yourself. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: I hope nobody comes down with that, but... GROSS: Well, Ethan Holtzman, Zac Holtzman, thanks a lot for talking with us. Really appreciate it. Mr. E. HOLTZMAN: Thank you, Terry. Mr. Z. HOLTZMAN: Thanks. GROSS: Zac and Ethan Holtzman founded the band Dengue Fever. Their new CD is called "Venus on Earth." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Review: TV critic David Bianculli on 80th Annual Academy Awards and return of "Saturday Night Live" TERRY GROSS, host: Over the weekend, the broadcast networks presented two live TV events that were able to proceed as they did only because of the ending of the writers' strike. Our TV critic David Bianculli watched the 80th Annual Academy Awards telecast on ABC and the return of "Saturday Night Live" on NBC and has this review. Mr. DAVID BIANCULLI: One of the major reasons the writers' strike ended when it did was to give the Oscars enough time to mount a semblance of a real show; otherwise there would have been no movie stars on hand to accept trophies and no Jon Stewart to acknowledge and make fun of them as they waited for winners to be announced. But even with only about 10 days of prep time, Stewart and company did just fine. Jon Stewart was on "Larry King Live" earlier this week, and King asked Stewart if he'd seen any of the nominated films this year. Stewart looked at him in utter disbelief and explained he was hosting the awards so he'd made a point to see them all. For Larry King, who's famous for not doing research, that may have been hard to understand. But a familiarity with the nominated films allowed Stewart to be both enthusiastic and funny. (Soundbite of 80th Annual Academy Awards) Mr. JON STEWART: There were, if I may, amazing performances this year, and I think everybody can agree on that. There really were. Just terrific. Daniel Day-Lewis, remarkable. Cate Blanchett, twice. My friend Javier Bardem, Javier Bardem. Anton Chigurh, remarkable. Your work in "No Country for Old Men" combining brilliantly Hannibal Lecter's murderousness with Dorothy Hamill's wedge cut. It was... (Soundbite of applause, laughter) Mr. STEWART: Julie Christie was absolutely amazing in "Away from Her." (Soundbite of applause) Mr. STEWART: Brilliant movie. It was a moving story of a woman who forgets her own husband. Hillary Clinton called it the feel good movie of the year. It... (Soundbite of laughter) (End of soundbite) Mr. BIANCULLI: I liked the way Stewart handled himself and loved it when he brought one winner back on stage, one of the composers of the year's Best Original Song from the movie "Once," because she'd been denied a chance to give an acceptance speech. He actually stopped the show--the Oscars, mind you--to give the shy, grateful woman a do-over. That was wonderful. So was one innovation probably intended originally to fill time and add glamour in case the strike had continued. It worked so well last night it ought to be part of the ceremony from now on. Before winners were announced in the various acting categories, film montages showed some previous recipients having their names called. So before Daniel Day-Lewis won for "There Will Be Blood," viewers were reminded--and so was the actor--that the winner would be joining such previous Oscar greats as Marlon Brandon, Humphrey Bogart, Jack Nicholson, Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington and Daniel Day-Lewis. Over at "Saturday Night Live," there was a similar scramble to get the show mounted on time. It was the program's first nonrepeat installment in 16 weeks; that's a third of a year. And as recently as midweek, executive producer Lorne Michaels hadn't decided whether a current cast member or a newcomer would get the plum role of Barack Obama. In the end, "SNL" went with cast member Fred Armisen. It's a move that already has generated protest in some quarters because the role wasn't given to a black actor. But "Saturday Night Live" has proven defensibly color blind for decades, at least as far back as when Billy Crystal use to impersonate Muhammad Ali and Sammy Davis Jr. And Armisen himself has been so perfect at imitating Prince, there's little doubt he'll grow into the meaty political role that's just been handed him. In his first weekend, though, Armisen as Obama wasn't funny. He wasn't given much of a chance to be. His Obama never joked, never even smiled. Instead, in the opening skit for the show's return, he was the quiet calm when all about him were flustered. It was a restaging of the CNN Univision Democratic debate from Thursday night; and only two nights later, "Saturday Night Live" was mocking it on the air. The target of the skit wasn't Obama but everyone around him. Hillary, played as always by Amy Poehler, was lampooned for her refusal to admit any sort of defeat. And the TV journalists of the debate, played by Kristin Wiig, Will Forte and Jason Sudeikis, were ridiculed for their fawning treatment of Obama. (Soundbite of "Saturday Night Live") Unidentified Actor #1: (In character) And our first question is for Senator Obama from Jorge Ramos. Unidentified Actor #2: (As Jorge Ramos) Senator Obama, are you comfortable? Is there anything we can get for you? (Soundbite of laughter) Mr. FRED ARMISEN: (As Barack Obama) No, thank you. I'm fine. (Soundbite of laughter) Actor #1: (In character) John King, a follow-up. Actor #3: (As John King) Senator Obama, a minute ago Jorge Ramos asked if there was anything we could get you, and you said, quote, "No, thank you. I'm fine." My question is, are you sure? Because it's, you know, it's really no trouble. (Soundbite of laughter) Mr. ARMISEN: (As Obama) I am quite sure. Thank you, though. (Soundbite of laughter) Actor #1: (In character) And our next question is for Senator Clinton, again from John King. Actor #3: (As King) Senator Clinton, less than two months ago you were the heavy favorite to be the Democratic nominee. Since that time you've lost 31 of 38 primaries and caucuses to Senator Obama, including the last 11 straight. Now, do you still believe you can win this nomination? Ms. AMY POEHLER: (As Hillary Clinton) My goodness, John, this process is far from over, and I think it is a little premature to start counting us out. Actor #3: (As King) A few nights ago you lost badly to Senator Obama in Wisconsin. In theory, isn't that a--isn't that a state you should have won? Ms. POEHLER: (As Clinton) Not at all, John. (Soundbite of laughter) Ms. POEHLER: (As Clinton) Frankly, we never expected to win Wisconsin. Actor #3: (As King) He also beat you in Virginia. Ms. POEHLER: (As Clinton) It was always our intention to lose Virginia. (Soundbite of laughter) (End of soundbite) Mr. BIANCULLI: That opening skit deserves more points for being current than for being amusing, but it served notice that "Saturday Night Live" was back. And in the kind of the political year we're having, that's one very welcome return. It'll still be another few weeks at least before TV gives us new episodes of scripted shows sidelined by the writers' strike; but over the weekend, if you watched "Saturday Night Live" and the Oscars, you got the sense that if things were quite back to normal in the world of entertainment, they were getting there. Just seeing Jack Nicholson holding court at the Oscars made everything seem OK, and my bet is that Jack Nicholson last night felt exactly the same way. GROSS: David Bianculli writes for the online magazine tvworthwatching.com. Coming up, our book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews John Edgar Wideman's new novel. This is FRESH AIR. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Review: Book critical Maureen Corrigan on "Fanon: A Novel" by John Edgar Wideman TERRY GROSS, host: John Edgar Wideman is the prolific author of over 10 novels, two of them awarded the PEN/Faulkner Award for fiction. He's also written nonfiction books, including the acclaimed memoir "Brothers and Keepers" about his relationship with his brother Robby, who's serving a life sentence for murder. In his new novel "Fanon," Wideman attempts to chronicle the life of activist and writer Frantz Fanon, who, while also working at snippets of his own biography--I'm sorry, that he's writing this biography of Frantz Fanon while also working in snippets of his own biography as well as a meditation on post-9/11 America. Book critic Maureen Corrigan tells us how this literary mishmash turned out. Ms. MAUREEN CORRIGAN: I know it's easy for me to say, but if anybody ever needed to internalize the Nike slogan of "just do it," it's John Edgar Wideman. Wideman's latest novel, his first in 10 years, is called "Fanon." It's a novel about the life of the writer, psychiatrist and revolutionary thinker Frantz Fanon, which is a terrific idea since Fanon, through his political activism and his books "Black Skin, White Masks" and "The Wretched of the Earth," helped fuel colonial liberation movements throughout the so-called third world. Except Wideman's novel turns out not to be a novel about Fanon but rather a novel about Wideman's attempt to write a novel about Fanon. This is the point at which I'm obligated to say the word that sends many a faint-hearted reader scuttling under the covers of nondemanding chick lit or mystery novels: postmodernist. Indeed, Wideman's "Fanon" is a postmodernist novel: a self-aware hodgepodge of biography, fiction, memoir, history and, in this case, self-indulgence. In the hands of the right writer, the by-now-old-hat postmodernist technique opens out possibilities for fiction and can be enormously entertaining. Wideman's "Fanon," however, is like a parody of a postmodernist novel. Passages like these, which compose the bulk of "Fanon," give Beauvoir-ese foes of postmodernism plenty of ammunition. "Are stories more than words?" asks Wideman's fictional alter ego, a writer named Thomas who's suffering from writer's block. He goes on: "Since stories, no matter whatever else they may or may not be, are composed of words, let's ratchet back and begin with a more fundamental question. Are words more than words? If we're able to answer this question, then perhaps we can go forward--or back, if you will--and examine stories as a particular case of words governed by the logic or illogic we uncover after we determine whether or not words are more than words." A few chapters' worth of this kind of navel-gazing riff makes even the most sophisticated, sympathetic reader want to shout out, `Enough already. I'll write the novel for you.' Somebody should. Fanon is an extraordinary figure. Born on the island of Martinique in 1925, as a young man he smuggled himself over to France to fight with Allied forces against Nazi Germany. Afterwards, he studied psychiatry in France and worked with victims of French torture in Algeria. Fanon actively supported violent resistance to colonialism, and consequently his writing has relevance to the topic of terrorism today, a connection Wideman suggests by conjuring up a scene where his alter ego Thomas, who lives in post-9/11 New York, receives a package containing a severed head and a quote from Fanon. The head and its significance remain disconnected from the rest of this fragmented narrative. Wideman acknowledges the recent biography of Fanon by David Macey that was published eight years ago. That's no doubt a much better place for readers interested in Fanon's life and thought to begin. Perhaps this is the novel Wideman wanted to write about Fanon. Perhaps Wideman would say that all his self-conscious dithering about words gestures to Fanon's own writing about language, and especially the way language can serve as a tool of oppression. But "Fanon: The Novel" mostly strikes me as a literary failure to commit. The best sections here are where Wideman drops his pose as the tormented writer and throws himself into the familiar category of memoir. He describes visiting his aged mother in Pittsburgh and his brother in jail. At one point, Wideman quotes his brother criticizing his writing. The cleaned up version of what Wideman's brother says is this: "I don't know why you keep beating yourself up trying to write intelligent stuff. Even if you write something deep, you think anybody wants to hear it? When I think about it, big bro, I give you credit for being an intelligent guy. But, you know, I got to wonder if writing an intelligent book's an intelligent idea." That's a revealing comment Wideman has made in his brother's voice because the hollow defense of the writer who knows he or she hasn't done his or her best work and is anxious about readers' reception is that the book is too smart to be appreciated. "Fanon" isn't too smart. We readers get it. Regrettably, there just isn't that much here to get. GROSS: Maureen Corrigan teaches literature at Georgetown University. She reviewed "Fanon" by John Edgar Wideman. (Credits) GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.
- Description
- HALF: Zac & Ethan Holtzman TEN: Holtzman contd. Bianculli (Oscars/SNL) Maureen (John Edgar Wideman novel)
- Description
- Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. Each week, nearly 4.5 million people listen to the show's intimate conversations broadcast on more than 450 National Public Radio (NPR) stations across the country, as well as in Europe on the World Radio Network. Though Fresh Air has been categorized as a "talk show," it hardly fits the mold. Its 1994 Peabody Award citation credits Fresh Air with "probing questions, revelatory interviews and unusual insights." And a variety of top publications count Gross among the country's leading interviewers. The show gives interviews as much time as needed, and complements them with comments from well-known critics and commentators. Fresh Air is produced at WHYY-FM in Philadelphia and broadcast nationally by NPR.
- Media type
- Sound
- Duration
- 00:58:59
- Credits
-
-
Distributor: NPR
Producing Organization: WHYY Public Media
- AAPB Contributor Holdings
-
WHYY
Identifier: 2008 0225.wav (File Name)
Format: audio/vnd.wave
Duration: 00:58:59
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
- Citations
- Chicago: “Fresh Air,” WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed July 1, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-04rjdhh5.
- MLA: “Fresh Air.” WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. July 1, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-04rjdhh5>.
- APA: Fresh Air. Boston, MA: WHYY, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-04rjdhh5