Focus 580; The Afro-Semitic Experience: A Positive And Meaningful Musical Message About Black-Jewish Relations

In the first hour this morning we'll be talking about music. Talking with a couple of jazz musicians playing you some of their music our guest this morning are David Chevon and Warren Byrd. David Chevon is a bassist and Warren Byrd is a pianist. They come from rather different backgrounds but playing music together drawing on both of their traditions. They started out playing sacred music from the Jewish and African-American traditions and expanded that into a kind of a larger frame they began as a duo with bass and piano and then started playing with a little larger group called the Afro Semitic experience which has done a lot of playing around the north east they come from Connecticut. They're here spending some time on the campus they've been talking with students and in fact they're going to be giving a performance tonight at the Hillel foundation at 5 0 3 east John in Champaign It's co-sponsored by the Champaign-Urbana Jewish Federation global crossroads and the champagne Urbana diversity network and they are here with us in the studio to talk a little bit about their music and as I said we have. Their very first CD that they recorded

back in 1988 and will play some music so you get an idea about what the sound is like and talk with them and as we talk of course questions comments are welcome the number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 and toll free 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Well thank you both very much for me and your appreciation you have. Thanks for having us both both of you. I think one thing that certainly is you to share in common is that both of you started playing when you were young. Was there was one was the piano your first instrument. Pretty much unless you continue consider the human voice a definite instrument I mean I actually started singing at the age very young in the church choir. I remember being about 4 years old and showing up for rehearsal and then subsequently for church services. So I

mean that music music education and the music performing started very early. So you know we can go back now but I didn't actually start playing the piano until I was about 10 or 11 years old. So for a lot of people that's late but not necessarily I think it's right in there and it works you know. Was it David was it was the bass your first instrument not be about my six or seven. I moved around a lot musically exploring a lot of instruments piano guitar saxophone guitar saxophone recorder piano and then eventually I got a hold of an electric bass and a few years later decided that what I really wanted to play was the upright one. What is the what's the difference between those two instruments I would imagine some people would think well basses is bass but certainly physically the

act of playing is different physically. It is a sound as is different physically. What do you what are the important differences between the two. Well they both can actually be used in almost any kind of music. For me the big difference is that in general the bass the bass guitar is a guitar whereas the double bass or the acoustic bass or the upright bass or the contra Bach or whatever you want to call it because it goes by so many names. It is a older acoustic instrument that doesn't feel at all like a guitar and doesn't even function like a guitar. I think one of the reasons that the bass guitar is so good for pop music is that it has that it feels like an electric instrument. And you can pop it and slap it and do things with it that are very much conducive to electric basses do well the acoustic bass you can blow it you can pluck it and it gives a very warm rich

vibrant tone. I don't know if I answered your question very well but basically they're very different personalities to me and their feelings. Yeah. And yeah I mean if for one thing you can't ever you know it's actually very similar to the distinction between playing a keyboard and playing a piano. I mean you know when you play a piano and you touch death fagging and you hammers hit those strings in vibration of wood and you feel it come back to your fingers. It is just not the same when you're playing a keyboard and you hear an amp behind you. You know it doesn't have same resonance the same kind of how do we say organic interaction between me and the instrument. But I'm not saying necessarily that it's bad it's just that it's different. Right. They're related interrelated into the uninitiated ear. You know you can always tell the difference between bass and bass guitar a keyboard and a piano but

when you're playing it you can really feel you know there's just the physical difference. Yeah. Well I mentioned the fact that you the two of you started playing together as as the duo bass and piano and that I think it was sacred music that you started out doing first and then after that that worked and you enjoyed playing together and people enjoyed hearing you and someone said what can you do this with a bigger group and that's how you. You actually had David you actually were working with a group. And that really did that really become the Afro Semitic experience in some ways you know Warren and I actually were together in that group that was based ology which was more of a straight ahead jazz group. But we were exploring a lot of things and it wasn't very hard for some of the core members to transition into this whole other project. Yeah. So how how did you meet in the first place. Let's see I was new to Connecticut I moved to Connecticut in 93

94 and I lived in the new Hey I live in the New Haven area. Warren lives up in Hartford and I want to meet some players and so I went to a jam session up in Hartford and that's when I met Warren was he was the piano player at that gig. We didn't actually start playing together until a year or two later. It depends on when you put that jam session that you showed up for it. Yeah I don't remember when their year and a half or something like that I mean it I mean I do remember he called me in summer August of 96 and his voice you know. Hi I'm David Chevon and say hey do it man. We met before at this jam session that you did up in Hartford at the city's edge. Oh OK. Vague vague vague something in my memory. It was dozens and dozens of

people who would come through there and then he says something about can you get with the concept. Apparently other pianists couldn't get with the concept. You know if I could get with the concept now that well I didn't tell you what the band was. I read that in a newspaper article the other that yeah that's a quote is that that David said can you get out of the closet and Warren says then thinks himself can I get with that concept what is this guy about. But you know you know we went and played the gig and I got to see would a guy was about. And you know he was. Very interesting person and a great sense of humor and a lot of fun playing music with him so the association grew out of this kind of affinity and we begin to discover a lot of other things we had in common and on a more how do we say I am more spiritual or you know endemic level. And I think

from there a lot of the things that we've subsequently done. Well we've been talking here for a while and I think we should play some music so people get an idea about what it is that we're talking about and we have a CD the very first that our guest David seven and Warren Byrd recorded together was recorded live in 1998 at a recital hall at Southern Connecticut State University in New Haven where David teaches. Would you like to pick a card in particular that you'd like to play. Boy I haven't heard that album in so long and you heard it last night was when I grab your ear. Well why don't we go ahead and play the the title track a. That's a good idea so this would be cut. Number three on the CD. And can you talk a little bit about it. Where does this where does the tune come from. Sure. Well that's that's a that's a good piece that album title

is of a demon. I mean it once we were slaves which is the name of this piece of a team hyena and it's an old Jewish song. That song at Passover time and Passover is coming up actually a couple weeks. And that song actually speaks quite quite nicely to the Afro Semitic condition once we were slaves. Now we the children of free men and women. And that's essentially what the words of that song are. And we took the took that melody and interpreted it found sound from some harmonies and put it through its paces and allowed us to discuss through music how it means to us. OK well let's hear it. I am.

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am. Warren Byrd is the pianist and David Chevon is the bassist and that the recording of you

know recorded in April of 1998 at Southern Connecticut State University in New Haven that's from their very first CD they recorded him high you know they now have I think two as a duo and then with the Afro Semitic experience there are a couple. There are a couple. And we actually sitting in my MP 3 player in my room are all the rough tracks from the new album that were halfway through recording and maybe best interest again our guests both of them started playing music when they were young Warren Byrd has had extensive experience as an actor singer pianist he's self-taught as a composer arranger pianist and lyricist. He's composed for theatre and dance also a company dance and teaches in the southern New England area he's been nominated eight times as best keyboardist in the Hartford advocates reader's poll. He was chosen as one of the top 25 pianists of the Thelonious Monk Institute's 1999 contest. They have Chevon. He has written works for a wide range of artists and ensembles

including several collaboration with dance and film he is associate professor of music at Southern Connecticut State University in New Haven has a Ph.D. in music history from City University of New York. They recorded together and then also went on to form this band the Afro Semitic experience. They are here have been spending some time on the campus there visiting as guest in residence of the global crossroads a living learning community. And they have been talking with students and spend some time on the campus and as I mentioned the beginning they're going to give a performance at the Hillel foundation 5 0 3 east John Street in Champaign at 6:15 this evening and it's free and open to the public so anybody who wants to attend can stop by. So how do you feel David. You said you hadn't listened to this in a long time. How's it sound to you now. Not as bad as a record. I gotta tell you it's funny hearing you're hearing yourself from that many years ago and I hadn't heard it in a while. Oh boy I remembered it not being

that good but the energy is there and it's just great to hear where we were at that time and in the process. Because any project like this that lasts more than a few years you know we return to these pieces and we play them differently now than we did then and yet there are certain things I hear that the kernels of what we do now are definitely to be found in that performance. Why would you think about it or you know what I was really. I mean I haven't heard it in a long time either. In fact I haven't heard it in about five or six years. And I mean it was really a surprise. I mean I heard myself going. BIG BIG BIG BIG BANG BANG BANG BANG. And this piano as Dave was playing a bass intro and I mean I didn't realize that I was you know using already that many stark devices in order to get sounds inside of that piano and I mean yes

I tend to think the same way about you know listening to old stuff which is that maybe at the time. You know I thought a certain way and had certain expectations and they weren't met. Then I get away from that person at that point in time. And you know come back to it in about five or six years I say oh that's interesting that's a nice painting her that's that's a has a nice you know structure or form and then in texture to it and I mean this particular recording you know I was like wow OK. But we just you know he mentioned we just played a song last night and I did notice that there were a dozen things I'm doing differently in terms of my technique and that I have grown in some ways and that there were some things that I was thinking about differently in terms of music back then. But we need no exhaust.

When the when the two of you approach something new. How do you do that. What sort of process do you go through as you work on how you're going to play it or whether you feel like you even want to play it or once you've played it a couple times you get the say yes let's do this and more. Or you say I don't know this just doesn't grab me let's let's do something else. Well you know think about that. I think maybe I can speak for both of us and that is that I think the bottom line is can we play the melody OK and can we sort of lay down the basics. And so if we get through something once and it sounds OK then we'll do it. And I mean it's not so much about trying to perfect something in the practice room so much then trying to allow the performance to be the place where we can actually allow the evolution of the performance to take place of a new piece. So for instance last night I actually. For some reason

was inspired to write a piece and it's a very short piece but it has a lot of detail in it and. You know I just could not get around the melody. So we didn't play it but it's a there's a good chance we might play it tonight. And you know it's just that those very basics. Lord knows what it's going to sound like in about five years from now if we're selling it. Yeah that's I think the difference in some ways between what we do and maybe what a pop musician does is that once the piece is created that's the piece and the way you play it now is essentially the way you're going to play it five years from now 10 years from now. You know Rolling Stones haven't done much to hey you get off Michael out since they wrote it. Whereas a piece like of a dream high you know keeps growing and keeps changing and there's no guarantee that the way we played it last night if we played again tonight is the way we're going to play it tonight

because so much of what we do is based on the idea that. There may be certain range ideas but mostly we're in the moment. We're really exchanging with one another musical ideas and seeing what happens in the unfolding process. That's what makes jazz very much an in the moment kind of music. And then our way it's exciting because then it becomes like a garden. You know you plant the seeds and you talk you used the word colonel in referring to the I Have A Dream I you know and then you plant the seeds and the seeds planted in and it begins to be a part of a whole forest or a whole flora and fauna inside of the person. And then finally you know it becomes and it becomes and it begins to mold and shape according to the growth that's in you. Yeah. I'm interested in having David talk a little bit

about playing the bass and begin in the sense that the bass certainly is capable of playing melodically but it's also a rhythm instrument. And when this just a duo you're the rhythm section. Yes. Oh how and I I'm interested in do you think differently about the way that you play when you're just playing with the pianists as compared to when you were playing with a larger group. I'm going to answer that in a circuitous fashion. First thing I'm going to say is while the bass is the rhythm section if you're working with the right kind of piano player pianist is also the rhythm section and Warren has a very powerful left hand and a good right hand too. And so that so that I'm not really carrying all the rhythm myself Warren is doing a lot of a lot of that in addition to what he's doing. A lot of glee. The fun thing about playing in a duo setting is that you can do a lot more. A lot more with time and a lot

more with feel. When you when you don't have the drummer you don't have other players around you can you can play a lot more. If I'm playing in a setting where there's a drummer and maybe even a percussion percussionist in it and another harmony player I've got to keep things as simple as possible to allow them room to fill the holes with Warren. When it's just the two of us I get to play a lot more I get to put a lot more fills a lot more notes and I get much more percussive in my playing. In fact I really love to to attack the bass in a percussive manner so that it feels as though you're almost hearing a tuned drum playing. And I really enjoy approaching the instrument that way. In the duo setting now I mean it's I'm not taking anything away from the logic thing but you do want to get that that rhythmic drive going. Well it's interesting too that when you think about it that the piano in one sense one of things that pianists are always going for is to see if they can play a melodic line that

almost sounds like a voice but in fact the piano is a percussion instrument because you've got these little hammers that are hammering the strings. How do you think about the percussive nature of the instrument and how you use that. Oh I'm I'm always actually Raef. I'm always actually re re always actually thinking of the piano in terms of. Being a percussion instrument with tones and then I mean there are some other things you can do in order to make the piano more than a percussionist and with tones but in fact very indefinite tones. And I mean in the context of playing with Dave it it's nice to be as many different things as possible. And one of the things that I have always shot for in working with small units

is to try and expand the role of each of the instruments so that it becomes just a smorgasbord of sound a smorgasbord non-existing more would be a buffet of sound and well yeah. Yeah hey it's still out there man. I think there's a but I mean and it becomes about sound and then it becomes there at about feeling being created and in pictures and and textures except Or rather than worrying about you know the the traditional role of the instrument. So in that sense yes I like the piano to sing but I also like the piano to strum. And I also like the piano to pound and you know I try not to limit what the piano can do and I don't know if you've got to check out a lot of cats like say at Cecil Taylor or even a chick

Korea. You know and in many ways you're on a different ends of the spectrum but. I am inspired by them because they actually do the Explore the piano to an extent and and sometimes you even wonder if you're actually pianists. You say to sky a piano player is just pounding this instrument. But I mean I guess it takes a certain refinement of listening to it to recognize the musicality in some things and you know it does become a challenge at times. But in that sense I try to narrow it down to something listen both to well past the midpoint here we're talking with the pianist Warren Byrd and bassist David Chapin Chevon Pardon me I got wrong there again. They're here visiting and spending some time in Champaign Urbana on the UVA campus talking with students they've done some performing. They have recorded together as a duo also with their group the

Afro Semitic experience. And I'd like to play something else and maybe Warren something sort of of a gospel nature I know you want to. Well you know pick one. There's two army here. I mean you know there's one of the there's actually about three or four of them. You know and maybe we can sort of do this together. You know Joshua for the better of Jerricho of the war and make way somehow. There are always fun because you're very traditional. And then he Israel actually is something I wrote that was more out of a contemporary approach. And you know I I actually would love to hear something like The Lord of make a way somehow. It's a cool tune. It's number 10 and it's a Thomas a Dorsey and I don't know if you're familiar Tom Sader see but he's playing on bone. See.

But he's very endemic to the Chicago area because he moved there from self and settled there and in many ways is the grandfather of modern gospel music. And so maybe we should check. All right let's do that. I am. I am.

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am. I am. I am. I am. I am. All right that is Warren Byrd he's the pianist and David Chevon whose bassist was recorded in April

1998 the first CD that they recorded together. They have some others They've also played together in a group called the Afro Semitic experience playing around the northeast and yes they are available for weddings and bar mitzvahs. So it says I have not sight and they're here visiting the campus again they're there I visit here as their guest in residence of the global crossroads a living learning community. They'll be giving a performance at the Hillel foundation on East John in Champaign tonight at 6:15 this is co-sponsored by the Champaign-Urbana Jewish Federation global crossroads and the Champaign-Urbana diversity network. Warren bird's been playing music both emacs have been playing music for a long time. He's self-taught as a composer arranger pianist lyricist. He also has some experience as an actor and a singer. He's composed for theater and dance companies dance he teaches in the southern New England area. David Chevon has written works for a wide range of artists and ensembles including several collaboration with dance and film he is associate professor of music at Southern Connecticut State University in New Haven and has a Ph.D.

in music history from City University of New York. One of the things that you I know you make a point of and it's you know the material and it's the kind of stuff that I see and all the things I've read about you and about the band. Is that what you're interested in is Korean I'm quoting here creating an artistic response to anti-Semitism and racism in all forms. And that's an ongoing mission and something that's very important to you how in music in your music do you do that. Or is it something you directly try to do with music or is it just partly is it who you are. Dave you want to go there. Well anx you can jump in any time. We've always been musicians pretty much since we were kids. And speaking for myself and hopefully for Warren that's something we would do no matter what. And coming into bringing the sacred into our

music and talking about these issues is something that fell in our lap in a very positive way about around the time in 1997 98 where we were playing around with some hymns and things and we had an opportunity then to present them in a synagogue at a Martin Luther King service. And what was so striking is how people responded to what we were doing. And the more that we have gone down this particular road the more there it has been something that has really touched people in a way that we realized that there was a need in the world for music that had a strong spiritual bent to it overtly. And when I say overtly it's because in my mind all jazz music tends to have a spiritual bent to it in the first place because of the way in which the music has to be played honestly and from the heart.

There's there is really a good jazz musician has to distill their ideas and play from a particular place within themselves where they you can hear mistakes you can hear the honesty in the music and that's a very spiritual thing. You've got artists like John Coltrane who really opened the door for us with his music such as A Love Supreme and some of his later pieces meditations and all that allowed the spiritual to directly come out. We're lucky that those people came before us and then we take the spiritual and we take the sacred and play the music we can. Through the pieces that we play through the way in which we frame the pieces we can bring ourselves and the listeners closer to some kind of spiritual or ecumenically religious experience.

That's kind of a long way of answering it. Ant Oh no you go well insofar as addressing symmetry as a man. Racism I think. You know for me as a as a musician and as a performer at large you know I've been interested in so many different forms of music and so many different forms of entertainment and art for so long and from all kinds of different places that when I finally ran into David. And we created some kind of thing together. There was already like this. This produced a pre-condition where we were exploring things. And it didn't occur to me that he was Jewish. And

that we should do this thing so much or make music together because man he's Jewish and we're black we can come together and we can show them. You know it was just that we really dug each other so much. And we have such a good time working together that hey why not. I think the example in there is enough to speak to. Yeah. Such things as anti-Semitism and racism. And for people to understand is that when you make things together and you realize that there are some things that if you put down your boundaries. And allow yourself to explore some things that you know there's a good chance that I mean and we do have differences. We're not talking about this thing where we came together and we said let's this be peaceful all the time and and let's let's not have fights in wars. We're talking about Hey we

agree to disagree on many different things. But at the same time we have a spirit to work together and create some things. I think in that way we answer this question here. And to me it's the more organic and endemic way but all ways are valid for dealing with such issues because they they eat at us until you know it's a real challenge to face life sometimes. But yeah I mean the only thing that I add to that it is really more to reinforce is that when you when you do things from an artistic perspective you don't have to wave your flag in the air or say hey look we're being. Pro integration is pro you know we're we're stopping anti-Semitism we're stopping racism is more through deed. And I think more what has come out over the

years and the reason that we point this out is that this is something that the audiences themselves say to us this is what comes out through the performance is that we're working together very much in an equal way where Warren addresses some pieces I address some pieces and what people see and feel from the performance is this sense that there is a way for people to work together. There's a way to to pick up from where from where the civil rights movement left off and continue to work together. Well there's just the fact that the larger group and I'm really I'm sorry we don't have music to play that's our oversight of Semitic experience so people can can seek it out because you know I have some CDs with the fact that you put that name on it so it would seem to suggest that you really want to you know you could call that anything. Right. Would seem to suggest that that you are wanting to make a particular point about your backgrounds and then maybe what it said something about what it is what it is you're trying to do

musically. What the can you discuss and you talk a little bit about what the sound of the bigger group is what you try to do with a bigger group. Well I mean we sort of briefly touched on it when we said that you know it was an outgrowth of many of the core members of wanted to groups based college. And some of those members were actually in that group. That would be me David and will Bartlett and then eventually David got to me some of my friends. Harford Yeah. And there was some there was some there was some. I can't think of a word right now there were some art going on in how he wanted to to create this group. And I think it was David who made the initial suggestion. Ultimately we have a nice cross-cultural situation where not only is there black and white

but there are some very specific subgroups within the group. Yeah. We got you got Alvin Carter who plays a very strong gospel funk style of drumming and that comes across like he is swaying like a son of a gun and he you know his heart is really in that wonderful gospel funk. And you've got Bob Coleman who plays you. African drums Afro-Cuban drumming so he plays a hand drums and sometimes gets Alvin to play the hand drums too so we have that that element and then we have Stacy Phillips who is a he's actually a bluegrass musician so he plays the dough bro. But he also is an accomplished klezmer musician which is Jewish secular music and he plays violin and he plays a little bit of a lap steel. So we have that element going and then you Michel if you feel he doesn't like that you got called the violin. But he oh we also have Will Bartlett who is just an

extraordinarily accomplished musician he plays clarinet saxophone and he's doing a lot of arranging for us. And he just writes so well and so cleanly that he writes things that we can actually read. Well I guess the finale software really helps too. But then. Yeah and. Well I don't know if it's too scary to mention but Bob was very interesting because he comes from. He's embodied a new tradition totally. I mean when I was growing up I was told You know those who you know don't mess with their food with this. He said No reship priest here he's in a Rhaetia and you're a Reuben priest so I mean we have all this stuff going on innocent beautiful melting pot. And then when we get together we have some commonality we work with musically didn't we also challenge each other. Yeah if some new ideas you know some great percussion stuff going on in a group

everyone everything in pieces now to everyone's writing for the band which is really wonderful. The new album everyone's contributing to it. Exactly. So is there anything that you. Are you open to trying anything at least one time just to see how it goes I have never belly danced. I mean musically. I mean News in which you know what you do what you do in your off time. Right. That doesn't matter does welding. Well see there's a thing that goes around nowadays you know where I'm from and then from a la urban centers his check before you did this and that is you know go and check it out. And you know if you don't dig it then you've got to stick with it. And then I go a little further with those kinds of things. I tend to say OK well if I don't dig it maybe there's something about me and check out for a second and to work on just this for a second maybe I'll come back to this.

Yeah man I'm I'm pretty wide open about a lot of things. When it comes to music a lot of things and there's a lot of things I've already tried and I have decided OK I've done that. And it's I don't need to do that right now. And so you know in that way I feel I've built a sense of resolve. Yeah. You know jazz is is still probably. I mean the number of people who listen to jazz and have them play jazz relatively small compared with other kinds of musics other musics. And it's been that way for a while and you know that doesn't seem likely to change it's funny you say that. I don't know if I should cut you off but. Oh yeah. A number of people now have been suggesting that we not call ourselves in the group and I was the duo in the group a jazz group as him and you're a world music jam band. Like OK

sure it's marketing. That's right Martin to be using the label jazz is funny if I talk to one of the students here if you have I and I say well yeah we're jazz musicians. I get one response if I say Yeah I would. I play in a jam band called the Afro Semitic experience again a whole other response. And so I think that why you say it's marketing I think also at least in the minds of some people there is an automatic disconnect when they hear certain words whether that's a good or bad thing. Well I think it's a bad thing because I happen to have come up in the tradition and I love the jazz tradition. I understand why people call it jam band it's to keep it contemporary and fresh but we haven't changed a single thing we do. So what do you think about that. Well. I tend to be a little bit staid when it comes to. You know I don't mind I'm proud of being a jazz musician and and I have pride

behind it. Nonetheless I'm also very wide open about what I call myself. So I mean if it works for some people to understand that we're a jam band and they'll come see us play. Perhaps that's cool but I will always emphasize that you know I play jazz music man and I use a jazz approach to playing right. And it's nothing to be smirch because I mean jazz as a process of playing and jazz as a tradition you know legacy is very rich and unfortunately under emphasized in this country. I've been a lot of places in the world and they understand and value this beyond what you can fathom here about jazz music and and oh sorry I'm so I'm sorry to interrupt it we're just going to have to stop because we use the time if you're here in and around Champaign-Urbana you can hear our guests.

Pianist Warren Byrd and basis to have a Chev and they'll be giving a performance tonight at the Hillel at 6:15. That's a five a three is John in Champaign and it's free and up to the public. Otherwise you can hear them whistle a record or have recorded as a duo and with a band effort some basic experience. Thank you very much. Why do you guys really know why the three are here thank you.