Focus 580; Contemporary Social and Legal Issues Facing Native Americans

He is visiting the US campus in fact will give a talk at noontime today to which anyone who is interested is invited He'll be speaking on a wide range of social and legal issues facing the Native American community at large and that will be at noon today. In a line a room c of the South lounge of the line our union. That's from noon to 1:30 and again anybody who was interested in coming to hear him and to exchange ideas is welcome to do that for many years. Our guest has been a political activist addressing human rights issues in the U.S. and abroad. He has actively worked on such critical issues plaguing Native Americans as violation of land and treaty rights exploitation of Indian culture sacred songs dances and ceremonies and the retention of parental control over the education of Indian children. Frequently He's been an outspoken critic of the U.S. government policies concerning Indian nations in the U.S. in Central and South America as well as a staunch opponent of U.S. complicity in the apartheid system of South Africa and U.S. backed wars in Angola Mozambique and Palestine. As we talk with Mr. Bellecourt You're welcome.

To be a part of our conversation all you need to do to do that is pick up your telephone and dial the number. It's 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 That's our local number. We also have a toll free line and that one's good. Anywhere that you can hear us 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5. Thank you very much for coming in spending some time with us. Janish not an EGD done in any Gol Bobbie Connie cog on issue Nabil And Dana what I did David as I greeted you and your listeners in the language of the on issue not bay which is a word in our language that describes us as a people. We are better known of course in the United States as a Chippewa and of course in Canada we're called the Ojibwa or the Soto and of course as I said in our language we've always described ourselves as a people. And I sent a greeting and said that my real name is wab on a ninny and I come from the white earth on a mission of a nation where the honor should not be reside.

Better known as I said as my missionary by my missionary colonial name as Vernon Belcourt which came by way of the Jesuit missionaries and merchants who came over to the so-called New World to exploit not only our souls our spirit our spiritual ism but certainly to exploit our lands and resources as well. And we've characterized this in fact as America's longest war which still continues today against a little that remains of our lands our natural resources. And in fact our ancient liberties and our culture and our spiritual way of life is still under attack on many fronts. And I think frankly that it's what's brought me here to the campus of the University of Illinois to support the Indian students here and others who have seen through the whole ridiculous nature of the mascot here at the University of Illinois and to give support to them and to try to lend my voice and my concerns to this continued

perpetuation of the stereotype about our Indian people. Well I hope that we had a chance to talk about a number of things but why don't we start there with that. Because it has been a controversy here on this campus a number of people have raised the issue of whether or not it's appropriate for the chief to continue. As this as the mascot of the team doing the performance at the athletic events and so forth and I think that perhaps people here are having a difficult time understanding why this is so important to native American people that is why it is such a sensitive issue. Perhaps you can talk about that. Well first of all I come from the Chippewa nation in Minnesota. And this issue has been brought up also by concerned parents of Indian students and the various school districts in the state of Minnesota. And we found as is the case across this country there are probably thousands of high schools and

universities and private colleges who still use the racist caricature of Indian people in their mascots and Minnesota the Indian parents took on this issue several years ago and the fact is the State Board of Education. By majority vote had ordered all the high schools to eliminate the mascots and also to eliminate the use of Indian names that perpetuate the myth that we are nothing more than violent savages who went around one committing suicide by marauding one another. And number two that all we did was burn out the settlers when in reality it was America's longest war that continues against Indian people. But in projecting the the character of the mascot is one issue the other issue is of course in calling themselves the Warriors mottoes in the schools scalp the end and all this stuff we know we didn't start scalping that was started by the Dutch settlers who introduced that. To

prove to they that they were the bounties they had the bounty and they would have a collect money for each scalp that they've taken so that was nothing that we had had originated nor done but anyhow the high schools have been all ordered to to changed their mascot to get rid of the mascot so that issue was gone the mascots are all gone. But now the issue is whether they're going to be allowed to continue calling themselves the Indians or the Braves or the Warriors. And so that issue may well have to go to court if if the school boards. I should say the faculties on various schools often time manipulating the emotions of the students want to continue calling themselves Indian names. But let's get right here to Illinois and some of the arguments that I had heard proposed here or offered here is that well this is a reflection of our pride for the Indian people or this is part of our proud heritage or this is probably part of our values and of course we heard

Ronald Reagan more than anyone and now we hear George Bush talking about America's values. Well we ought to understand what America's values are based on. And maybe then people will begin to understand why we want to end this characterization of our people through these mascots. Blackhawk was a great leader here in what is called a state Illinois and most people only know a Blackhawk as a hockey team. But Blackhawk when he has peace. People are being hunted down in the forest of Illinois being murdered by the US death squads and the military victims of US state sponsored terrorism I guess I could say. He was asked a question by the General's Blackhawk Why do you insist on making war. Blackhawk of course thought it was rather a stupid question and he might have even chuckled before you responded in this fashion. He said you know our cause for making war. It is known to all white men and they ought to be ashamed of it. Now I used the term white

man because it was in within their words and at that time our oppressor was white. Obviously today we realize it's not a racial issue but we do realize also that particularly among white America who had denied themselves their own culture their own identity their own language and music and art and opting to become a part of the American melting pot that they don't know anything about themselves and not know what you think about themselves there's a lack of self respect and that is then conveyed to other people of Colchester who have their identity who have their music who have their traditions. And I think this is one of the basic problems why a lot of the young people on this campus have become very mean spirited over this issue. Which is being perpetrated by their parents first of all and the alumni and out through the peer pressure in the community there's been tremendous abuse of the few Indian students who are still left on on this campus and that's unacceptable. Black Hawk also said. He said We can never understand why it

is that you Americans always take with a gun what you could have through love. And if you look and examine America's foreign policy today and that we perpetuate wars against people in 16 different parts of the world on Central America and southern Angola Mozambique we can see that that still that military macho mentality still prevails among the political leaders today that they continue to insist on taking through violence what they don't have to love to see was a man of peace of the Shawnee nation who also inhabited these lands. He was eventually as many of our people had been manipulated and all Americans war during the so-called American Revolution. The French were manipulating us to English were manipulating us and the colonies so many times we've gone our people fighting on different sides of the of the issue. Take He was eventually assassinated I think in about seventeen seventy seven I believe up in Saint Lawrence Seaway across from Detroit Michigan on St. Anne's Island being manipulated by the

by the revolutionary forces on all three sides of the of the of the fight. Take after looking at the expansion of the 13 colonies from the eastern seaboard tried to build a called an alliance of all the Indian nations up and down from Illinois through the Ohio Valley down into the. What's now called Georgia and Florida and everywhere he went he tried to unify the Indian Nations to put up a united front and this was the message that he always had. And again I I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings by using the word white and but I'm only sharing with you what you see and his observations and here is what he said. Some six or seven years before he was finally assassinated. He said each year these white intruders become more greedy exacting demanding and overbearing wants and all pression is our lot. Are we not being stripped day by day of the little that remains of our ancient liberties.

Unless each tribe unanimously combines to give a check to the avarice and ambitions of the whites they will conquer us apart and disunited will be driven from our native lands and scattered like autumn leaves before the wind and quote. About two years ago I was listening to one of the major networks and I heard Peter Jennings the anchorman for one of the major news networks and he was talking about the primaries in Peoria Illinois and in a county in the history of this particular area he said this land was one time inhabited by the Peoria Indians and then he went on to say I guess they just left. That's all he could say. Well how did they leave. They left by going back into the bosom of Mother Earth and they were wiped out in this area by the settlers who came here who probably the descendants today are so vehement and mean spirited and attacks on the Indian students and the other students

who are trying to be reasonable with them and to make them understand why on one hand when these descendants of these settlers who totally committed a genocide ethnic side a holocaust against our Indian people would now put up the argument that we are this is a reflection of our of our values this is a reflection of our pride about Indian people. Well I suppose if we were to allow the apartheid system to survive in South Africa and the blacks allowed themselves to be forced onto the so-called Bantu stands which are internment camps and similar to our reservations at one time were concentration camps where we were pushed on to the worst land and their imposed economic and social conditions and inadequate health conditions to bring about the long death of the blacks of South Africa as happened to us. And then after the blacks had been totally wiped out they tried to use the white races regime of South Africa which tried to use a caricature of Nelson Mandela as their mascot. You could see that the

few remaining blacks of the apartheid regime would certainly be outraged about it. The case is no different here and that fact is without being facetious or mean spirited We would like to suggest that these young students here and the faculty and the alumni who support this mascot as vehemently as a do they want might want to really look at what their value is and what their heritage is. And I think they would then be ashamed of themselves. For instance this is called The Land of Lincoln. The day that Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation allegedly to free the slaves I associated with people like Kwame touré and blacks leaders across this country have been for years. And many of them pose the argument that slavery really has not ended. We're just getting paid a little bit for our work. So but nonetheless when you when you look at the situation that has faced blacks in this country as

well that together we continue to be remain the victims of America's racist policies and racist past. And so Abraham Lincoln today signed the Emancipation Proclamation also signed an order to hang 38 or sue people in a place called Man Cato in Minnesota a mass lynching literally when the people were starved into submission when they finally demanded food. The United States again used this as an excuse to make war on Indian people in the southwestern United States. So if America wants to have a mascot or particularly in this case if the University of Illinois wants to have a mascot that rep rep reflects their heritage and their values they may well want to choose General George Armstrong Custer or Abraham Lincoln and go out on the floor during halftime and dance around like a fool. I know for sure that if they try to do that by using a say a character of Bill Bojangles Robinson and or. George Washington Carver or for that

matter Malcolm X or Martin Luther King. They wouldn't get away with it. And so we in a sense are really urging the athletic program particularly the black brothers on the basketball team and the football team to speak out against the further use of the Chief Illiniwek mascot. It's an insult to our people it's an insult to our history. And I would just hope that the good people in this area would prevail over those bigots that want to continue perpetuating this this caricature. Well to reintroduce if you just have Tune in our guest this morning in this first part of focus is Vernon Belcourt he is an American Indian activist one of the founders of the American Indian Movement. He has been involved in politics for many years and they will be giving a talk in fact this noon on the campus at the L.A. Union and some of these issues and here were of course open to your questions and your comments you want to pick up the telephone and call you can talk with him. Share your thoughts with us. The local number here is 3 3 3

9 4 5 5. We also have a toll free line which is good anywhere you can hear us if you're listening around Illinois over in Indiana. You can use that line and we'll pay for the call that's 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 3 3 3 W while 800 to 2 2 W while Here's our first caller we'll go to the toll free line. Hello. Yes I agree with you. The Indian type movement things the stars like I think grave diggers should be shot and all that kind of stuff. But I think this is kind of carries a little bit too far because most of the time when a team is named after somebody that's an honor in other words you know the Packers because they like the Packers in Green Bay and you know to me this is carrying it too far I mean would they rather the mascot be George Armstrong Custer or somebody like that you know what I'm saying who I think that's an excellent idea. OK but the Custer was not very nice to the Indians.

You know I would consider it more of an honor to have a team named after an Indian. I mean I don't think they're doing it derogatorily and I think they have a name too. We had mascots that were black people George Washington Carver would be a good mascot. I'm sure for somebody like Rahm we are some of the refs got service. You know I say In other words I mean if it really bothers the Indians you know to them but to me I mean this is Kara just a little bit too far. Thank you. OK. Well the comment you know the point that you well make is that this is this is bothering the endings and I have a packet of press clippings and letters to the University of Illinois from some of the most prominent Indian leaders both women and men across the United States and this is not just a local issue for the University of Illinois. It's a national issue it goes to the whole disrespect for our sacred shrines our burial site it goes for the disrespect of our history

which has not been a good history in a sense of the American immigrant society and their treatment of Indian people and so the thing is I guess what I mention at a forum I had here last night in view of the fact that Indian people are hurt by this and it is causing them some sadness and. And fact is that many many letters have come in as I said to the University of Illinois urging them to change the mascot to eliminate the mascot. If the situation were reversed and we found that we are of ignorance or stupidity or whatever we're doing something carrying on some type of action that was hurting the feelings of non Indian people in this case particularly white people in this country you would only have to ask us once there's been pleased by the students on this campus not only the Indian students but their supporters. And it seems to fall on deaf ears. It seems as if people have made up their mind that they intend to keep this mascot and they're going to do it regardless of what happens. But let me suggest to you that as is the case in

Minnesota where a lawsuit may have to be filed I would think that the same would happen here. If they refused to change the mascot or abandon the mascot I would think that particularly within the Big Ten you're going to see more and more larger demonstrations at all the different university campuses where we're going to urge the support of the athletes on the different teams to join with us in eliminating this mascot. So why go through all that all that problem why don't we just sat down and decide that we're going to eliminate the mascot and then we'll get on to the issue of whether or not the Indian people even want you to continue using the word ally and I when you look at the history of how the Indian people were massacred in this area how can you now say you're on the Indian people by offering this mascot. I was at the tryouts last night. Anything that is being taught there has absolutely no relationship to the the authentic Indian dance in this country it was a combination of what they envision to be authentic and in dance and some sort of modernistic choreography.

It's an embarrassment to us to even have to stand there and watch it but we were trying to be reasonable. It is also the case that you talked about the fact that in Minnesota schools have reconsidered their use of images of Native Americans as mascots There have also been some other universities that have in the past used them. And I think somehow I think Dartmouth this one there may be some others that have also decided that they're not going to. They're not going to do that anymore. More than 15 or 18 years ago. You're right. They had two cases that are stand out is the Dartmouth issue and of course the whole issue of little red or whatever they call them in Oklahoma. So here in Oklahoma State which is a large Indian population Zenin in California they have dealt with this. So it's you know it shouldn't be something that is totally impossible for the people here on this campus to to to deal with. You think if if there were more Native Americans living in Illinois or perhaps they were more organized more vocal that we would be talking about this now it would have been settled it would have

been sad a long time ago and it was only through the intervention of a young man who is no longer on this campus because of the peer pressure and he installs and the attacks on his character that he has left he's dropped out. I think there are three Indian students on this campus and I think that's an indictment of this campus and its recruiting policies. I understand that altogether there are probably no more than 1000 What would be considered minority students or people of color on this campus. We have several callers in fact our lines are full of them go back to the line starting with number one. Hello good morning. Listen I would like to applaud your guest and I thank you for having this subject being brought out. I am a black American student and I found great of the person who called me for who obviously was white see me as your guest has a problem very legitimate fact to like and that it had. No black American or Mexican American or for that matter even then I tell you no American who is being used and in such a manner.

Although I'm sure they their intentions are not negative but they have not done the history they have not done the research and so therefore they don't know when they are slandering or are forming offense with people and it's ridiculous to be debating this issue because again if there had been a black American you should have already seen the students here. Well black and purple probably many white students to making great protest so I do hope that the school will find some type of means of handling the situation without having to go look at litigation which will be costly and really kind of absurd on our part because it will put bring us into the next. An ally and everybody would say oh well we don't want Indians here we are. We don't respect them and it's ridiculous. They don't even make up as the caller said. They aren't even more than three or four of them here and it's just it really is an insult on the campuses. Their recruitment policies so obviously just aren't aren't great enough but thank you. OK I appreciate your comments here and I want to you want to follow up on anything the caller said Allow

don't really I don't really have to I think the young man explained it pretty well. We were about midway through here I just want to take a moment to tell you about the programs that are scheduled for the rest of the week and then we will continue taking calls this morning our guest is Vernon Bellecourt he is an American Indian activist we're talking about Native American rights. Next caller up is on our toll free line. Good morning good morning. I just had to comment. Very good question. On the one hand to Mr. Dela course Mr. Bellcore my real name is wab on in any. Just a while Bunny. That's my first name and means man of dawn but Belcourt is fine. OK well whatever you prefer. On the one hand you're very nice to say. That you don't want to be divisive by using the term white and it seems like you have an attitude of kind of cooperation at least in language and not trying and people then on the other side you know you'll say things like Well we certainly want to limit the support of

our black brothers. Yeah but the department I was just wondering why wouldn't you have the support of the white brothers or don't you consider whites your brothers. No I I didn't mean to suggest that we are not asking for support from others because the people that are supporting. The Indian students here on campus are are both black and white and the fact is several people from the non Indian community are supporting them. Also in terms of focusing on black students in particular you know there's been a history of cooperation between Indians and Blacks down through the years when blacks were escaping from slavery they many times found her asylum in a sanctuary among the different Indian Nations. Similarly when the Indian people were being rounded up by Andrew Jackson in the trail of tears a death march of the eastern tribes many escaping from slavery of course found sanctuary within the black communities. In fact is on the trail of tears many blacks were also rounded up and driven to what is

called Oklahoma territory. So having had a long relationship with people like Kwame touré who is here on campus last week he put out a call to the black athletes to join the Indian people in this effort. And we are in no way suggesting that we don't want the support of our non-Indian brothers and sisters from the white community in terms of the term white man. I was only referring to the oratory or the prophecies of our great leaders of the past who at that time seeing that our oppressor was for the most part 100 percent white. I didn't mean to race it in any negative or racial way. Well I understand that so frequently when racial issues are brought up. Thank you. Please white people and black brothers or Indian brothers and it's as if excluding from the family of man are the white people and I just find it to be consistent. Especially among black leaders. The second question that I have my family

came here 15 years after the Black Hawk War 1853 how they were French how my father in law just happened to marry a Frenchwoman. But my father in law came here so go and we went to see that yielding cash display out here near the monitor Lockport and they have French trappers dressed up and then people walk around saying way I could you come and they they sound pretty stupid. Yeah. Now my father in law thought that was funny. Now had that been an Indian and had you been my father in law you would have come and you would have been enraged and you know I mean I agree with your rage but I'm wondering where does the guilt start. I mean am I for example exempt from guilt for Illinois because my white family came in 1853 it seems like that one of the tactics used by both the most minorities is to assign blame and guilt to the current white population for what they say. The

family of white that caused it 150 200 400 years ago. I don't see I can I read many books on the tailed Trail of Tears. And I mean it's awful. It's just terrible. But I also read some book on Roman treatment of Frankish tribes and what now France and Gaul and that is awful. But I don't blame the Romans for what they did to my ancestors. I'm just wondering where why does that have to be part of it. Well you know your point is well-taken particularly on the first issue on the second issue. We have never tried to motivate people or to guilt trip people. We would rather motivate people in a way that they're moved by integrity and by feelings of justice and and not certainly out of guilt you know guilt tripping people never accomplishes anything. The point I wanted to in answer to your question is that what you have to understand today at this very at this very time in

Guatemala 22 Indian tribes make up more than 75 percent of the population of seven point three million in the last eight years under Reagan and now Bush more than 50000 in people with the support of the zionist of Israel who provide much of the arms and technology. Fifty thousand Indians have been victims of an American Israeli perpetrated Holocaust. Four hundred and twenty villages have been wiped from the face of the earth. The U.S. war against El Salvador in the last 10 years has claimed 100000 victims 20000 of them are Indian people. And as an organization that represents indigenous people it's our business to be concerned about that. I just returned two days ago from the 46 session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in Geneva Switzerland where I was a special representative for political prisoner Leonard Peltier who's been languishing first in Marion federal prison here in Illinois and now in Leavenworth prison. They continued every year in the Congress of the United States as a whole body of legislation that

further erodes our land rights our political rights our water rights and I guess brother what I'm trying to describe is the fact that the war continues today and if you and others are not speaking out about the injustices against Indian people today then we are holding you responsible for what is happening today we're certainly not holding you responsible for what happened in Illinois in eighteen hundreds. And I in no way try to convey that particular attitude on this issue. But just one last comment. You did say earlier that had a Lincoln or General Custer as their mascot got a new history of those two individuals that they would feel the same. What I was saying is that is more flexion of America's heritage and America's value system rather than how they're trying to say now that in using Chief Illiniwek they're actually showing pride and dignity toward Indian people. I hope you can see the real contradiction in that and I guess I was being a little facetious and saying that maybe Abraham Lincoln and General George Armstrong Custer or for that matter

Colonel North who seems to be the American Hero would probably serve to be a better mascot in a reflection of America's values America's pride. Final comment as a white man and I've always feel like man this thing that I guess I resent the most is the attempt to take away all my heroes the attempt to make me feel guilty. That's a perception on my part. I understand you know trying to do that but I also think you have to understand that I didn't do it either extend it to you. Well I think the point that I must make is that you know anyone is that wants to can climb under the blanket of indictment and if they don't feel they should be under the nation feel bad about it. And we will go on here I want to thank the caller very much and we have several people waiting I want to get on some other thoughts. Let's go to line number two for our next caller hello hello university than the academic community being are intellectually oriented to take this as a challenge to establish a course of

study that a broader perspective of Native Americans would fit certainly with the liberal arts schools and media universe to him and maybe even more of the Fine Arts traditions in the university to experiment a cultural perspective that isn't often presented to her. I wonder if your guest there might comment. Gross looking. In America you know higher education but provide a fair look at American culture. Indian people created the first Indian Studies Department at the university in Berkeley California. More than 20 some years ago when at that time of course to my knowledge there were no similar programs that were

reaching into the Asian or the Chicano Latino or into the black community in fact. And here we see 20 some years later we see three students here on the campus of the University of Illinois. So your point is very well taken and I believe that that's one of the suggestions and that's part of the dialogue that is taking place right now to create a more relevant Indian Studies department here on the University of Illinois and a very very good well-organized recruitment program I'm sure. Excuse me I'm sure that it would certainly enhance. The university if they had more and more Indian students here and I would think that that some of the dialogue that should go forward but in the meantime in order to start the spirit of reconciliation that will only began when the alumni and the faculty and the students realize that it's time to stop their use of Chief Illiniwek who incidentally the headdress that is being worn in all

our chiefs unlike what Hollywood projects the chiefs our spiritual leaders our counsellors who had the right the honor to wear those bonnets. They they earned every one of those feathers through a lifetime of service to their people. Unlike Hollywood these leaders had the least of the people they suffered for the people they serve the people the markings on the face often times this paint was used in spiritual ceremonies and now we seeing this being reduced to cheap dance. Young men jumping around during the games with this headdress on and I think that is some of the things that are really unacceptable for Indian people. Don't try to look at the culture of the current conflict and I would care to comment. Of course you know we threatened for a long time to seek a Science Foundation grant to go out here and do a dig in Illinois on some Pioneer

Cemetery. Who knows we might want to go dig up Abraham Lincoln put him on display put wooden wouldn't be a thing and spectacles and remnants of different clothing on display in order to dramatize the fact of how unacceptable this is where people can still have open graves of our ancestors on display for tourism. We are totally against what's going on at the Dixon mines and if you're Governor Thompson here likes to put paint on his face when he goes to the alliance games that may be reflective of what his attitude will be about keeping the Dixon mounds open or closing them. There is a whole real waking among our people across the country there's a legislation to create a national Indian museum so that we can in a way put on display those things that have an educational meaning to it that are helpful in terms of our projecting our our history. But in terms of sacred objects and of course skeletal remains they all

must be re interned into the bosom of Mother Earth our spirit cannot make its journey to the spirit world when the physical remains of our people are still left in a museum so I'm glad you brought that issue up. Thank you. Thank you. We have about 10 minutes left our guest this morning is American Indian activist Vernon Bellecourt. We're talking about some issues in Native American rights and if you have questions we'd be happy to get on as many people as we can we do have a couple of callers will get right to the local number here. Three three three W I L L L toll free 800 1:58 W while I'm on the issue of protecting sacred sites and display of remains. And do you are you pleased that that is at least now those issues are being raised and there are some public discussion about whether or not that that is appropriate. Oh yes we've we've obviously made considerable headway in this area. There's a new consciousness among our people and of course there's still resistance from those people who operate different tourist attractions alongside the highway that feel it's OK

to to keep the physical remains of our people on display. But there has been generally a whole new consciousness we're getting some support in Congress in spite of the fact that 90 percent of the legislation that's introduced every year further erode our land base our political rights our water rights. We are making some headway in that area to be able to stop this kind of display of our sacred remains of our people. On Poor next caller good line number three. Hello good morning. I want to thank you for having to go on this morning. I agree with everything that and I did and I don't feel well I failed to understand why the university administration put its foot stamp of approval on institutional racism. It it boggles the mind that you know people would teach people with law degrees. Yes if the white man I'm just able to charge their race.

I have an important culture group and I care it's just pure disbelief that the Democrats argument have failed to persuade our university. Yeah. Well other than that I certainly appreciate your views and frankly I thought that there would be a lot of negative phone calls. That usually hasn't been the case because I try to explain things in its historical context and bring it up to the to the to the current contemporary times. And I think for that reason people have a better understanding. However you know the saying familiarity breeds contempt I see that reign supreme here on campus when these young people particularly Charlene and the other young people in the community here on campus who have tried to raise this issue they're the targets of the most. Hateful racist bigotry that we've seen anywhere in the country.

And I guess that that that is upheld here when we say that familiarity breeds contempt. I'm not saying anything different than what they've been saying. Maybe I'm saying it a little different in the fact that I come from the outside and I am I'm called a nationally and internationally known Indian actor this quote gives more credibility but I'm only here to support these young people and whatever good comes out of it. The credit has to go to these three students on this campus whoever raised this issue. And I think they're performing a tremendous service to this community to point out this racial intolerance that is being projected through the use of this mascot. I have a question here. It is the crest of a conqueror and with chief ally and I welcomed his interesting merging of two rather different Indian cultures to end the alliance or is it to determine their line I had all I mean if we were the government and you know based on the Indians who are here and they went out to fly and I work what

would be a fair price. So white woman I I don't know might have pivoted but I just would like to know what what your reaction would be to have. Well first of all I know one of the arguments is that the dance that they're portraying here comes from the Sioux Nation. I can tell you that among the Sioux Nation people that the American Indian Movement is very strong and I have attended Palos and dances taught that part of the country for for 20 some years and what I seen last night being portrayed here has absolutely nothing to do with di da Cote or su call GER. It certainly has nothing to do with any kind of dance that I seen performed by tribes nationwide and when I say nationwide I'm talking about Canada Central and South America as well. So it's not even an accurate portrayal of our of our dance in our culture. So I think under those circumstances any use of an Indian mascot particularly when we you know the history of Illinois and what has been called collectively the Ally

and I. There are many nations here that had been destroyed by America settlers and we see their great grandchildren still perpetuating that war against us in a much different way. So I don't think that any kind of use of the mascot is acceptable. All right. Thank you for I think you're on to another caller who will go to London borough 1. Hello hello do you have any opinion of another American Indian actor named VeriFone mean. Well Russell Means of course is a very long time organizer and leader of the American Indian Movement except several years ago he resigned from the movement. Fact is he resigned at least four or five times and each time he does so the media runs and covers his press conferences. But as far as I know he's going on to other things other interest. And we and the American Indian Movement continue on. OK all right. Another caller here back to the toll free line. Hello. Yeah your answer was my question. But I was just wondering you know I agree very

much with burial ground. I think that's really crazed and I just want to know is there any way that you could have like an expert or something. I think these people what their traditions are I guess you've covered this a little bit are you worried that there's no way that you do let them. And but you know any way that they could help educate people. Well I think that the best way that can be done is not through the use of the mascot of Indian people I think what the faculty and the people that run this university and the community have to start supporting is a very good Indian recruitment program to get other Indian students on this campus and I think their presence alone and putting on their dances and their yearly events like we have black African month we have imagine a Latinos on campus have something the Asians have something I think through that means the Indian students could organize a festival yearly where we could put on display our beautiful

art our culture our music and our authentic dance I think that's the way we can best educate the area and the community. Thanks very much. Thank you for having me today. To another caller glowing number two. Hello. Hi thank you. Oh thank you thank me for not sweeping that issue under the rug like everybody. It seems to be and I appreciate you keeping it up or at least giving people air time and I want to go back and emphasize what your second caller had to say that people who are keep saying they don't know why it is such a big issue and I don't understand why people are so upset about this and I think that that's those are the key words they don't know. Like you said they haven't done the research they don't they don't understand the whole history of the thing and that's why they don't know and that's what they have to acknowledge that they don't know and so they should find out instead of going around saying well we don't know why people are so upset about this. They should find out why people are so upset about this and they say they want to honor the Indian people but if they really want to honor the Indian people why don't they go to the Indian people and

say how do you want to be honored. Well can we do for you I don't think it's honoring Indian people to take out some part of their civilization make a cartoon out of it I think that they should go to the Indian people and ask and I think too that just like the Berlin Wall had to come down and just like apartheid has to end in South Africa. That our attitude towards the Indian culture has to change. And I would like to appeal to the people of this university who are in charge of that to recognize that we have to evolve and humane people. And to. Glacially graciously instead of having to be dragged kicking and screaming into this and to change identity and change which just makes them look like idiots just like our ancestors but it is for perpetrating a fire on the people and I'd like to thank you again very much. Thank you all thank you much for your kind thoughts. If I mind David I want to share a thought in follow up on what she is saying you know there are so many more important issues that we should be dealing with that we should be

talking we should talk about mother earth the environment the water the continued degradation of our environment. Acid rain. There are so many more issues that would bring us together and unify us rather than being divided on this issue the mascot so we're willing to get this issue behind us. All they have to say is the mascots gone on let's get on negotiation about whether we're going to continue calling on the team the athletic program the Ally and I believe that's up to the Indian community not only here but nationwide to have some input. But you know I'm from Minneapolis at the present time I have a home in Minneapolis and an office and I live up in the white earth reservation northern Minnesota Chippewa nation and Minneapolis they opened up a a garbage burner. And they're hauling the ash from that that toxic ash to hauling it or dumping it someplace here in Illinois. I don't know where but they're dumping it here somewhere. And I'm reminded of some words of a great leader by the name of Seattle. His name is really Chief C elf of the Duwamish Confederacy and the sequoias tribe in what is now called Washington State and in 1855 after he had seen the expansion of the

13 colonies to the Pacific coast and he and his people were being forced to submit to the United States government military forces. Here is a prophecy that he had to share and I want your listeners to think about acid rain the degradation of our environment nuclear explosions under the desert the madness of star wars wars raging again all over the world the terrible conditions health conditions in this country the AIDS virus that is decimating large sectors of the society. Seattle prophesies this time and here is what he said. Whatever be falls the earth be falls the people of the earth. We humans did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. What we do to the Web we do it to ourselves. Tribe follows tribe nation follows nation like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant but it will surely come.

For even the white man who is God walked and talked among them as friend to friend could not be exempt from the common destiny. We may be family after all. We will see and quote. So I guess in that I would like to repeat the words of Seattle by saying we may be family after all. We will see. And so I am urging your listeners and those that now can see better through this issue to join forces with the Indian students here on campus and their supporters which come from the black community from the white community. And fact is to bring about a family in order to deal with this issue get it behind us and get on with building a very relevant Indian Studies program here on campus a department and start to recruitment and get on with with healing the wounds that this issue has caused. At least that's our hope and that's our prayer. We will have to leave it at that I want to make sure people know that our guest this morning Vernon Bellecourt will be

speaking on some of these issues today at noon in the aligner union in a line I room see off the South lounge It starts at noon and anybody who was interest in attending is welcome to do that. There are many things we didn't get a chance to talk about but I understand that you'll be back to speak at the Friday forum in a few weeks and I hope perhaps we'll get a chance to talk again I'll be at the Y series on April 6th and I'm looking forward to seeing many of my friends here again and maybe we can continue this discussion. All right.