Focus 580; Interview with DENNIS J. KUCINICH

Good morning this is focused 580 our morning telephone talk show. My name is Jack Brighton sitting in for David Inge. Glad you could listen today during this hour of the show we are supposed to be in contact with Dennis cussen its presidential candidate on the Democratic side in the primary he remains on the campaign trail and in fact he'll be in Champaign Urbana this evening at 8 o'clock at the airline a union 8:00 to 10:00 there's an event going on there. Couple other events he's attending as well in Champaign Urbana. And we're trying to make contact with him by telephone. And so far we're not having much luck although we hope that luck will turn momentarily. It's been my experience that in the heat of a campaign the candidates are essentially in a state of chaos and they're doing many many things there are many demands on them. And whenever something is on the schedule you've got to put a question mark by it we hope that we can answer that question definitively this morning and actually have a chance to talk with Jessica Senate. It's OK we're. Looks like we're

actually getting through. Let me just mention a couple of things about Dennis Kucinich. In 1977 he was elected mayor of Cleveland at the age of 31 the youngest mayor of any major U.S. city. He later served in the Ohio State Senate and was elected to Congress in 1996. He was chairman of the Progressive Caucus the largest caucus of Democrats in Congress. He was an early critic of nuclear power in Congress has championed many environmental causes. He has called for the establishment of a Department of Peace to make nonviolence an organizing principle of American society. And he also has called for Nuclear Disarmament preservation of the ABM Treaty and banning weapons in space. He continued to draw the interest of many voters for his outspoken criticism of the occupation of Iraq. He is spoken against naphtha and the World Trade Organization and against the Patriot Act. He also favors a single payer universal health care plan. Increased protections for workers and a clean energy policy. These are a few of the issues Dennis Kucinich has raised as a contestant in the

Democratic presidential primary and will have a chance to hear more about these and other issues as we talk with him during this hour as we do speak with Dennis Kucinich You are welcome to join the conversation that's what this program is all about. We believe that dialogue on important public policy issues is essential in a democracy and especially in an election. So we invite you to join us the number around Champaign-Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5. Anywhere outside of Champaign Urbana if you're listening around the Midwest or actually on the Internet anywhere in the continental US you can use our toll free line 800 to 2 2 9 4 5 5 and oDesk soonish joins us this morning by telephone. Congressman Kucinich Good morning. Thank you and good morning it's good to be with you. Well we're very glad to have you with us. And again I want to mention that you are appearing tonight in Champaign-Urbana 8:00 at the Ahwahnee Union. I'll be at the Atlanta union in the airliner room and that's at

8:00 o'clock I look forward to seeing everyone there. OK very good. Well I sort of ask a question like this to start but it looks like John Kerry has a lock on the nomination but you haven't stopped campaigning. What do you hope to accomplish. Well you know the direction of the nomination may be decided matter but the direction of the Democratic Party is not. And we're still in war in Iraq and the Democrats need to take a strong position that causes us to to bring U.N. peacekeepers in and bring our troops home. We need to make sure that the Democrats stand for peace that the Democrats stand for health care for all the Democrats stand for fair trade. And you know my presence in this race assures the Democrats have an active voice and an active campaign to challenge the prevailing assumptions which are guiding some of our policy makers in. Party. And do you see do you see John Kerry Kerry carrying those issues forward I mean what. What do you hope to contribute to what is eventually going to be the campaign of the nominee.

You know it's one thing to won the nomination. It's another thing to win the election. And I don't believe the American people are ready to trade for example a Republican version of the war in Iraq or a Democratic version of the same. And so it's my campaign which is keeping alive these issues and they bring the debate to continue inside the Democratic Party. Well the nomination at this point be a foregone conclusion. There needs to be a debate about the direction America is going to go and if we think that by limiting debate somehow we're serving the American public I don't think that's correct. OK. Well I certainly want to talk about some of the key issues that you have raised and give you a chance to speak on those issues I also want to include callers and we have a couple people waiting. Right so we can you know we can go right to college. If you want to be OK well I want to defer to them since this was who was about to go first to a listener in Urbana on line number one. Good morning you're in focus 580. Hi Dennis Chris and I love you know. Hi I have two

questions. Yes your plan to get the U.N. and the U.S. out is great but how would you get the war profiteers out that's my first question and that's part of the plan and here's how the war profiteers get out. First of all everyone knows why we're in Iraq it's because of oil and we need to go to the U.N. and ask the U.N. to handle those oil assets of Iraq on behalf of the Iraqi people until the Iraqi people are self-governing to hold them in trusteeship so that the oil assets are not going to be stripped by those who are aligned with the United States for the purpose of grabbing the oil. The same thing is true with the contracts now Halliburton has been engaged in profiteering there and we need to understand that all of those contracts present the opportunity. To make a profit at the expense of the American taxpayer and the Iraqi people. And so we need to turn over the contract process to the UN to handle that on behalf of the Iraqi people until the Iraqi people can handle their own affairs so that is going to be any more Halliburton sweetheart deals. And so we can make sure the Iraqi people get jobs. And finally with respect to war

profiteering you know what what more glaring example is there a war profiteering in the administration's plans to privatized the government functions of the economic functions in Iraq. This administration on September 19 of the year 2003 set forth a plan to privatized its top 200 economic activities in Iraq economy to turn them over to private interests. I mean that is a form of theft. It's a violation of both the Geneva and the Hague Conventions. It's something that I've been challenging and frankly we cannot even hope to have peace in the Middle East. And in that region until we renounce the efforts of privatization and stop that other kind of profiteering which privatization would be party to. I have a second question. That was a great answer. Why have the commercial media fancily blackballed you. Well you know. But I think there's plenty of time to get back in this debate. And I'm glad to be on this show. I haven't. I haven't discouraged me in any way that some of the national networks want to move on and just make this a

you know this about the November election. What remains to be seen is what the Democrats stand for. And I'm in this race to give this party some backbone and to enable the party to really take a strong stand on issues that relate to peace health care and trade. Thank you. Thank you for all your work. Thank you. Thanks so much for the call. I want to follow up on the issue of privatization of government functions this is a battle you fought in Cleveland. Right. And actually sort of you know got you started on your political career and I you know I think that there is a sort of ideological debate about you know what what the function of government is and what the you know where private enterprise fits into that and maybe it's not a debate that we're having really out loud but sort of you know exists under the surface of a lot of the things that are going on. You're absolutely right and you're correct that as mayor of Cleveland twenty seven years. Years ago I began a debate in Cleveland

to save a municipal electric system from a takeover by a private utility monopoly and we were successful in saving our municipally owned electric system and as a result of that effort in Cleveland I became involved in what really is a national even international debate over privatization. I mean we have to ask ourselves you know what sort of just legitimate role of government in society. I mean it's articulated in the preamble of the Constitution but we we really have to ask ourselves does government have a role to play with the tax dollars government takes in providing for education for health care for retirement security for job creation. Or is this all about the private sector and government basically is just you know simply a service agency for private sector interest. I happen to believe that there are certain rights in a democratic society which the government has to support the right to an education. That's why we have public schools. If you go to public schools and you have only private schools then people are not going to get education because they don't have money. If you have health

care and you have only private health care. Well increasingly people are finding that they had a private health care system is excluding their access to health care with 43 million Americans without any health insurance it's a glaring example of that an issue of Social Security. I mean there was a time when seniors didn't have any retirement security at all the Social Security Act enabled an opportunity. If two live generations of the elderly out of poverty. And yet there are those who want a privatized Social Security and turn it over to Wall Street. I say that the retirement security is a legitimate purpose of the government and that the provision providing for Social Security is fundamental and that there ought not be privatization of Social Security. So you know this debate continues. And I think there's a reason to have a public sector and that the interest of the public sector and the private sector are often mutually exclusive. The public sector existing to provide service and a private sector existing to make a profit on lines will fall is going to talk with some more listeners.

Next up someone you're Banna line number two. Good morning. Yes good morning. I want to thank folks 580 for having you on the show because I know I know you're going to be in many places at the U of I campus I just can't get to them easily for this is wonderful. Thank you for calling. I want to also thank you for pushing the Democratic Party to sound more like the Democratic Party instead of just an also Republican Party. And I think you and Dean and Reverend Sharpton really really pushed the candidates to sound like Democrats. So my thought next is we get. To the convention we get to the Pratt farm. Can I prove who you want to make your position in part at the plant farm. And my question is do the candidates have to support the platform. No I mean you know the platform is in some cases it's substantive in some

cases it's ceremonial but a platform can be the basis for winning the election. If it responds to people's practical aspirations for jobs and health care and peace. And so we certainly need to influence the debate that's why tomorrow in Illinois. I mean people are voting for my candidacy now are free to express the direction the Democratic Party ought to take the nominations already decided but the direction the party is not so you know the that the platform of the party is important but we need to start putting those planks down now a no better place to start than ever. And I want to thank you like it's a very exciting prospect of having the Democrats return to their roots. Thank you thank you. Thanks for the call. Next up someone in Spring Bay on line number three. Good morning on focus 580. Boy Two things I'd like to send a contribution. You have an address for that. Well I mean you know first of all you know we've been very successful in raising

funds to continue this effort and the contributions to the campaign can be the e-mailed or sent to the percentage that US which is our website. And anyone want to get involved in a campaign crusade educate UCI and i c h dot us at our direction. The fund is considered for president 1 1 8 0 8 low rate ave l r e i and Lorraine ave cleaving Ohio 4 4 1 1 1 and you know this is a campaign that depends on citizens who want to create change and they've been able to go this far and they will have to go through the entire primary season. What other candidates have decided well they can't take it anymore and they just can't you know bare the not winning a particular primary and having the requisite votes for the nomination. The measure of commitment of this campaign is that we are going all the way to the convention with a message of peace health care for all and fair trade. The other thing I want out that 11 8 0 8 Lorain Avenue 1 1 8 2

0 8 Lorain Avenue Cleveland Ohio 4 4 1 1 1. And that's because Senates for presidents. OK. What's your take on the whole deregulation on electric utilities because Cleveland was kind of like the epicenter of that and I'm going to hang up and listen to your answer. Thank you. Well you first. The right of utility franchise is vested in the public I mean the utilities don't have an inherent right to operate they get that right through the state governments and the federal government you know regulate interstate commerce among utilities and also for standards utilities consistently over charge the public utilities consistently frustrate the development of new energy alternatives. I mean the reason why we're stuck with nuclear power is because utility industry you know went in league with the banks invested heavily in nuclear power. Now they have over 100 plants around this country some of which have safety problems continuing operate long past the time they're licensed right past the time of the useful license and you know we need to make a transition in

in our utilities and in our energy resources if we make the transition away from coal and nuclear and oil and we move to wind geothermal. Solar bio mass and green hydrogen. We may come upon decentralized utility applications which then provides a shift of the wealth in the society back to consumers and away from these big companies so the companies have a vested interest in frustrating the ability to the public to have alternative energy and to have decentralized applications which would then enable people to save money and their utility bills. Utility deregulation has led to an increased monopolization and a decrease the public interest activities. I mean when you consider deregulation led some utilities to cut back on maintenance and one in particular First Energy in northeast Ohio cut back on maintenance crews sharply enough that they found themselves in broke in the

middle of the middle of that big blackout that cut off electricity to 50 million people last year. You find out that deregulation of anything in a democracy is dangerous because it means the public interest generally is going to be ill served. There is no religion at role for government to regulate the activities of commerce in a Democrat. Society and that means regulating the practices of utilities. It means regulating the practices and Wall Street. Look at how much money has been watched by investors in Wall Street because there wasn't proper regulation. You know look at how much how many environmental problems come up because there's not proper enforcement of air and water pollution laws. I mean look at how many consumer products safety failures we've had because of a lack of effort adequate regulation. So there is a role for regulation in a democratic society. We're talking this morning with Dennis Kucinich. He is on the Democratic ballot for president of the Illinois primary being tomorrow he will be among the many among the names you will see on that ballot. And we're talking about a variety of issues our lawns are all full so let's get on and talk with

some more callers. Next up someone in normal on line number four. Good morning. Yes good morning. Good morning. Yes. Yes I'm going to be getting up bright and early and voting for you tomorrow because I like you said before although the nomination is a foregone conclusion we still get to voice our opinion as to which way we would like to see the party go. And I really like a lot of your ideas especially your ideas about the military industrial complex. This morning on C-SPAN a congressman referred to it as a military industrial can get congressional complex now because Congress pretty much rubber stamps everything that's sent before it now bloated budgets up to 400 some odd billion dollars anyone. You know what would you do to get rid of this if you if you could and you think that it's too big and too late. Well I mean I feel it's you know it's a big yes is it too late. No I have a particular expertise in this area. I happen to be the ranking Democrat the top Democrat on an investigative subcommittee that has

jurisdiction over national security and the Department of Defense. And let me tell you what we learned over the last few years we've learned that the Department of Defense has over 1 trillion dollars in accounts they cannot reconcile. There's something like eleven hundred and eighty four different accounting systems. They can't keep track of the money and they can't keep track of of quality control with respect to whether the taxpayers are getting any kind of value to offer what they buy. And you you have one generation after another weapon systems that are put on the boards in order to keep the programs going and keep the pork flowing. You have the Pentagon now planning to they're building new nuclear weapons building weapons for outer space building a so-called missile shield at the cost of 10 billion dollars that was actually advanced based on fraud. There is massive waste we spend four hundred twenty one billion dollars in this budget for the Pentagon more than all of the other nations of the world combined.

And so 50 percent of our discretionary spending is going for the Pentagon budget. And the fear that's being driven by this administration and the cost of the war in Iraq which is now approaching 200 billion is causing the Pentagon budget to be driven even higher. So what's happening is we're crowding out priorities of veterans benefits and education and housing and health care and and job creation. Well that's being swept aside as the militarization of our society quickens. And so what I'm calling for is a new approach. We need to defend our country yes. But but what's going on now is absolutely obscene. It is a it is a a rout of the taxpayers and a desecration of our American dream in the name of a huge military build ups. And we need to start correcting that course. The first correction I want to see a 50. One percent cut and the Pentagon budget it would in no way affect our ability to defend our country. That 60 more than 60 billion

dollars now but 62 billion would yield enough funds to create a universal daycare program for all of America's children ages 3 4 and 5. Which then would result in and closing the achievement gaps that are race based and class based. For America's children have create a five day a week child care program where reading skills educational skills social skills and nutrition would be provided. It would give our children a great start in those early ages as they approach elementary school experience. I mean this is where you can start to create a chef. And in the process redefined the cause of our nation because we're rapidly becoming a Spartan type society and we're crushing all the aspirations of people for it for education and health care and the needs of the people and just the survival of the American people. We have civil people waiting will go on next to someone on a cell phone on line number one.

Good morning. Yeah it's great that Dennis is on the benefit on the program and I would encourage other folks who have to vote for him to to benefit the platform. But I want you to talk real quick one of the things I noticed was that in all the debates that were held and the way that the journalists treated you was insulting. And I know that you can't say much about it as a candidate because you just come off looking kind of bad or you know if you like the offense again or something. But I was wondering if you could address sort of the coverage your campaign has received through the media and I realize we're on public radio right now but so are overall the regular cable network and network channels and I'll hang up and listen. And good luck good luck to the rest the election. Thank you very much. You know it's a real burden for pundits to have to determine who the next president is going to be. I mean just think about it. Part of the pun to tack recy and you just have to somehow Devon and let people know this is your candidate and you know on the out and the other end. This is not your candidate. And so you know I my campaign was

not given that much of an opportunity by some of the people in the media. But you know what. It hasn't stopped me one bit. I mean it's it he did. The real question any of us face in life is what's the measure of our commitments. Are we going to ask for permission to proceed along the path of those things that we believe in the most. Or are we ready to hang in there and to move ahead not withstanding whether someone wants to do it is celebrated through the major media. You know I'm in this not just through that. Invention but this is part of a movement for redefining who we are as a nation to become a more peaceful nation become a nation that focuses more on the human needs of people and to become a nation which stands for workers rights and human rights and environmental quality principles in our trade agreements. I mean we could really have a chance to change the world. So the fact that someone wouldn't necessarily give notice to the

campaign early on it hasn't been in any way discourage me from moving forward as a matter of fact. You know I'm I'm I don't I don't look to permission from the media conglomerates to decide what I'm going to do in public life. I never have. That's not the way I left. We're at a midpoint here in our conversation with Dennis Kucinich. He is one of the Democratic candidates in the Illinois primary and around the nation for president. And your questions are welcome We have several people waiting. I do want to mention again that he will be appearing in Champaign-Urbana this evening at the LNA Union as part of the progressive Democrat form from 8:00 to 10:00 o'clock. That's at the Ahwahnee Union. You will have a chance to attend that as well. You know before you go to the next call Sure there's just one thing I want to say and you know it and as a postscript to this previous discussion and

and you know any of any of the listeners now you know we've all had. The challenges in our life where people would say well you know you can't do this or or there's an assumption that in order to get involved in something you have to check with certain brokerages. And you know to check with this interest or that interest as to whether you can move forward you know if you believe in something stand up and don't look for permission from anyone out sometimes you know you may be the first one who's willing to say something but then it's amazing how things can change when other people sort of see the level of commitment you have I mean this isn't just true of maybe it's true of everyone listening all of us say circumstances in life where someone says well you know we're not going along with that. No we reject what you're saying but if you think if you have any measure of commitment you hang in there it's amazing how things can start to change. Well I do want to ask you about that because I have heard people say of you and of other candidates who they favored personally. Well I would vote for this other person

who I would vote for this person but I know he's got no chance. And so I'm going to you know vote for the person who is maybe not quite aligned with the way I think but who I think has a better chance and often those you know those definitions we have in our head about who has a chance are maybe inherited from those pundits you were talking about or from wherever. Well you know this is a good time to stop. The music and look at this phenomenon. Don't vote for what you believe in vote for who you think's going to win. I mean what what to pray VWD way of looking at ATS at civil dialogue. I mean if you don't vote for your heart your heart never wins. And if you vote against your interests against what you lose. And so you know what would my candidacy represents. It's an opportunity for people to to be able to follow their hearts and to vote for an expanded vision of what a political party can stand for and what a nation ought to stand for. And so you know it's not just about me it's about. It's about the dreams that anyone has. But you know I heard this throughout the early primaries where people would say

well you know if if I thought you had it. Dad said vote for and I'm thinking Well OK. What do you believe in you going to vote for someone who you don't agree with. And then if that person wins what do you when you turn around how can you complain that the person didn't take you back to a war or keeps a Patriot Act or floor supports corporate ties to health care or supports inapt in the WTO. Where does that leave you if you're if you're on the opposite side on all those issues so what I'm finding is that the political process and election process is is a period of growth for all of us. And so we go through these periods of well you know do I go with the winner. Well we already know where the winner is let's say. Now you've now people now that that's been established people can go back to voting what they believe in that this thing's decided. People can vote what they believe in. And my candidacy continues to be alive for those people who want to vote their hearts.

The lines are all full so let's talk with some more listeners we'll go next to someone in Urbana on one number two. Good morning. Comments and questions about the idea of the way the mainstream media treated you. I think that by denying the general public an opportunity to hear your ideas they've done a great job and you didn't mention that. But I want to. Two questions so I want to tell my wife about a story I heard on you tell on C-SPAN in response to an interview but I can't remember the details. And I believe it was that. But I but I was just arrived. And it was about you working I think it was three jobs at one point I went to school when I started school I was working two jobs and going to school full time it was something I would recommend to anyone. It's like not just writing a can. Though both ends but cutting a candle in half and burning both absent both hands and it was a and I'm sure there are other people out there who have done something that have been that's been equally as.

As challenging and you know when I was starting school I like a lot of people I had to work a couple years to save up money and so I had two full time jobs one in the morning at a hospital as an orderly then a surgical technician and then another one in the afternoon as a copy boy at the at the at a newspaper in Cleveland. And so I did that for a while and then I enrolled at Cleveland State University and in a for the full time load and try to juggle a couple jobs and a full time load and it was pretty wild for a while. Well I present the heck out of me you know and I don't I can't see any of the of your opposition on you Republicans claiming anything like that. I heard my second question you know are all local law entertainment paper are they have article you call it papers called bugs. And if you think you've proved that you can. Represent a broad range of

constituents by the way your district is diverse and I was wondering can you describe how your district is diverse and what is your approach to handling that kind of situation I don't hang up. Thank you very much. Yes well I represent Ohio's 10th. Congressional District I was elected to Congress and defeated a Republican incumbent who held the seat for two to our terms and both of those terms took somewhere about 64 65 percent of the vote. When I was elected in 96 I won with 46 percent of the vote. Two years later I think I took it up to 60 and and previous in the next two elections I had 74 percent of the vote. The district I have includes some of the poorest areas in inner city includes people living out of straights includes people who are living in homes that probably are worth you know 20 30 thousand dollars. And on the other hand it includes the homes that are worth millions. And so. It has some of the poorest and some of the wealthiest people in Northern Ohio

and it is it is a somewhat ethnically diverse. It has a large Hispanic population and a small African-American population. A great number of people from throughout the Middle East and people from all over Eastern Europe. And it has a large number of auto workers who have been desperate to hold on to her job steelworkers some of whom have lost their jobs. It is a district of you know a lot of blue collar people are concerned about trade. White collar people are concerned about outsourcing. And what I've done is put together a constituency not based on ideology but based on staking a standard based on service. I mean we have a strong constituent service in my district which I'm very proud of and we take care of people we help on local issues when people need help. I'm there if they need help in keeping trains out of a residential area. America need help in saving a steel mill and their help in saving hospitals and their help in saving libraries and their you know whatever it is site

we deliver and constituent service. That's how I built the base. It's really about service in the end. And so I put together a very strong constituency that when alas. Selection Well you know I ran for both President and Congress simultaneously. Well I picked up a couple delegates in my district I also got 86 percent of the vote in a Democratic primary. Well that gets to the caller's question I did want to ask you to talk a little bit about the economy and how your what your view is of the way to solve the situation we seem to have maybe the beginnings of an economic recovery but you know as many people are pointing out very few jobs being created as a result of that and you just mentioned you know the industrial regions in northern Ohio and you know the steel industry in the white collar jobs are you know increasingly being outsourced outside the country. You know what. What will your approach be to these things that you know if you count Ohio and Illinois together in the same group you know we've we've lost our two states together about a half a million jobs in the last two years under this administration. Ohio and

nationally we've lost over 3 million manufacturing jobs in America since the year since July of the year 2000. And this. Jobless Recovery is not a recovery at all. I mean who's recovering. Some maybe some corporations are recovering their profits by laying off more people. But there's wage stagnation. People are not making more. The cost of living is going up and people end up making less. We have people who are struggling to be able to hold on to their jobs in the face of naphtha in the WTO and our manufacturing economy is in trouble our steel automotive aerospace shipping textiles off in a downturn even some of our agricultural exports are in trouble. We have an economy that is in real trouble and this administration what are they doing to giving tax cuts to the wealthy. They're spending 200 billion dollars for this war in Iraq for 21 billion dollars for the Department of Defense the budget deficit is going over five hundred billion dollars the trade

deficit over 550 billion dollars. You know the country's in trouble and the priorities are all wrong. We need job creation. We need a public works program. We need a new WPA that can put people back to work rebuilding America's bridges water systems sewer systems. You know new energy systems libraries universities colleges rebuild America's infrastructure. We need to have new jobs in energy creation through creating new technologies and solar wind geothermal biomass and green hydrogen. We need to save our manufacturing base we consume things here we should make them again but we can't do that until we get out of. Now after the WTO because that frustrates any ability to be able to keep jobs in this country. So you know these are dead and we have to go back and restart our commitment to high tech. But we can't do that because those jobs are just on a one way expressway out of the country because of the WTO. So we get a gotta have to get out of Knapton the WTO have principles of workers rights human rights and in an environment in our trade agreements. Lift up the cost of people

worldwide in trade and also secure jobs in this country by having a strategy for protecting our strategic industrial base our lungs are all full so let's go on and talk with some more listeners will go next to someone in Urbana on one number three. Good morning good morning. Yes I had a question on foreign policy. If you could discuss a little bit about your views on our most recent involvement in Haiti and also with that I understand another Congress person. Representative Waters is or has actually you know is flying here Steve back to Jamaica today. And I was wanting to know if you. It also discussed what special powers a congressman might have to work to make something like that happen. Well first of all the policy in Haiti has been one of malign neglect. This government knew that President Aristide was in trouble. Your seed was seeking about a half a billion dollars in loans for Haiti. The United States did not offer any how wanted it he needed humanitarian aid the U.S.

withheld it. There was a sense that if this country looked the other way maybe Arab steeds government would become destabilized which it did. And of course he he he was deposed and had to flee the country. Think about the so ever stede was trying to get certain corporations to start paying their taxes. Nexus the ships that were coming into to the ports were basically avoiding you know paying their fair share. And so he he collided with powerful economic interests and as a result I think you know one of the reasons that's one of the reasons why the United States government was not helping him. So we now have a condition where Mr. Aristide is on his way to Jamaica. You know I think this chapter isn't closed down what's going to happen in Haiti people in Haiti have a right to democratic governance they have a right to a rule of law that has been to destabilize and we you know the United Nations community now has to help

support a return to a rule of law in Haiti. So I mean anyone could have chartered a jet and picked him up out of Africa and flown him home or I don't know that she chartered a jet I think you know. Maxine Waters has been very involved in issues related to Haiti has as have other members of the Congressional Black Caucus. And and you know and I and I share the concerns that they have about the treatment which Katie has given and that the fact the fact that she's going to Jamaica and I was aware of this. Take your word with Eric steed as a measure of her commitment. But you know we don't we as members of Congress we don't have special access to to requisition military jets. That's not done through Congress. You know I don't think it was a military job. But I mean even a private jet I mean you know we had we got to get a check to pay for it. You know what to expect. Kind of boxy I mean that nobody is reporting the story yet which is I

think we lost the caller there. But but thanks for calling and you know and then again Eddie is an example of of the U.S. government's policies that I have not really supported someone who's trying to stabilize a country economically. And my guess is it has to do with interest groups who are benefiting from being able to take a free ride out on the people of Haiti. We have again our lungs are all full and we have just about maybe 12 minutes left in this our focus 580 We're talking with Dennis Kucinich. He is in the Democratic primary purpose as it into the only primaries tomorrow and we're talking about a wide range of issues and will go on and talk with some more listeners. Next up someone there a ban on number three. Good morning. Yes hello I'm sorry yes somebody in your panel a number three. So I have that right. Number three yes. Oh I'm sorry and Champaign County. OK I was going to ask about Haiti and I think maligned the collective's not quite stating it accurately I think there's been a little bit Noriega's office and the secretary and the

State Department has been more than just neglecting they've been Act actually act then National Endowment for Democracy is acting as a you know we're doing things at the CIA. Well you know I raise the issue about that any day in Venezuela and we're looking at what involvement you know they they have had and in other places. Excellent. But since I've been covered a little bit maybe I'll go back to the other thing I was going to ask about which is nuclear power. District here we have a nuclear plant and Exxon has bought it and they're looking at buying or building another plant and they got 23 million dollars in assistance from I guess the Energy Department maybe the Commerce Department too to to fill out the forms basically to do the construction permit and I just think that is just absolutely an outrage and I'd like for you to comment on that. Well we ought to be you know at the exact moment that we ought to be moving away from nuclear power this administration wants to move further into it. I mean let's look at what's happened when nuclear power was first developed in this country 50 years ago. People were told that it was going to create

power too cheap to meter instead it's ended up creating power too expensive to use. If there's one thing that's been responsible for driving increases in utility rates in many regions of the country particularly northeast Ohio where I'm from it's been the writing cost of nuclear power and the fact that so many nuclear power plants or a few of them at least have been neither use nor useful and that the construction costs have gone way out of control and more than all that. You know what no one has ever been able to deal with you know the the by products of nuclear power production which is the nuclear waste. You can't dispose of it that's a misnomer. You end up storing it for you know for eternity. And that's a hidden cost to taxpayers and to ratepayers. You know this is this is it is unconscionable that we're still permitting new nuclear power plants to be built. We ought to be moving toward solar and wind and all of these sustainable forms of energy. Nuclear just keeps that whole nuclear marching band and Chowder Society going and

all of the attendant ills and evils it brings to society. We let's go on next we have several callers and we're going to run a time pretty quick here so. Next up a listener in Urbana. Why number one. Good morning. You didn't touch the FCC and terms of this consolidation stuff and the mergers in the mass media have a major concern and give you a chance to comment on that. Well you should be concerned. The public often forgets that the airwaves belong to us just as we give utilities the right of utility franchise in order to operate in a public interest. So too when the Federal Communications Act of 1934 was passed the it mandated that electronic broadcast licensees serve in the public interest convenience and the subsidy that's the measure. Of the public interest with respect to the broadcast media as media monopolies have grown the public interest has been shredded. The public convenience in a sense it has been denied

and so the growth of monopolies and media and the concentration of power and media the vertical and horizontal integration of media interest has led to the media becoming just another corporate business instead of a a platform by which we exercise First Amendment rights and so well A.J. Liebling once said freedom of the press belongs to the person who owns one. When you come to the broadcast media you have a special obligation our society and the public interest is not being regarded. The FCC ought to be reclaimed for the purpose of making sure that there's more competition in the media that there is a that the Fairness Doctrine is brought back to provide for equality of opinions or for response and diversity of opinion and that there there needs to be free time provided to our federal candidates by electronic media licensees so that there is a way of diminishing the requests for campaign dollars which has to do

chiefly about getting on electronic media so that no one in my kind I agree with you 100 percent. OK thank you. Thanks so much. The call we have just about maybe six or seven minutes left with our guest Dennis Kucinich in the primary for the Democratic nominee for president and several couple callers waiting and we'll go next to someone in Charleston on line number four. Good morning. He has grown. Good. James thanks Ed. First off what you were saying about people you know in your hearts and minds stuff like that. I agree with you totally. I mean four years ago I would Ralph Nader and I got a reply that I got ripped by bunch of people and I mean that replied I mind because I did that in my predator. But you know my mom said you threw away your vote and my brother looked at that note the only way you throwing your fault is by not voting.

Well let me let's say that you know in the year 2000. There are many reasons why Al Gore wasn't elected president of the United States. I'll give you one. I ran Al Gore's campaign in northern Ohio in the year 2000. He was down at his post said by twelve to fourteen point six weeks out in Ohio. So they pulled the resources out of Ohio. We kept campaigning anyway even without the resources and brought his campaign to within three points in Ohio where the major effort he could have won Ohio and it would have been a he would won the presidency. I mean there's there's a thousand different ways that Gore lost that election and to try to pin the whole thing on Ralph Nader I think is is is false. I didn't really hear good holy and so the question here is what do we stand for as Democrats and how do we attract people in 2004 to the to the Democratic banner. If they you know if the key if the party stands for peace we can do that. If we stand for fair trade we can do that if we stand for universal health care we can do that if we stand for protecting Social Security we can do that if we stand for sustainable energy. We can do that if we stand

for corporate accountability. We can do that. I mean there are things the Democrats can do that can get people excited to go out and vote Democrat and that could happen in 2000 and it can happen again and in 2004. There now we have time. We have plenty of time to plan for my candidacy is one way of giving Democrats yelling no opportunity to say look let's. Listen to what he has to say. To tell a Democratic Party nationally start paying attention and start taking a new direction. And then we can actually be responsible for helping to create the change that we want to see happen and I'm very grateful to have everyone participating take. You know we've taken a few calls here and it's good to hear all the listeners participating because you know tomorrow we need to participate I mean this is a good turnout in this election. People really come out and it's and vote to send a party in a new direction. It could have a big impact nationally. There are 17 elections left. You know we're two thirds of the way through this process. And there are 17 elections left. So you know there's still

a chance to have an impact. Apologies for the last call but we're going short on time and we want to try to include as many callers as possible go next to someone in East Moline on line number two. Good morning. Yes just want to say that I knew you were all right when you garnered Studs Terkel approval and a great comment about some of the changes in the tax structure I think in view of what you've observed correctly about the economy it's unconscionable that the estate tax is being eliminated. I wonder how you feel about the Primal Scream infinite in terms of the media and how that affected the deal. Campaign and all it's my impression that the media is their real rock. The amount they've got to candidate turn thankfully very little difference as far as the Democratic front runner and Bush II go. Well first of all with respect to taxes you know the state tax is the one tax that assures that we don't have a condition of inherited wealth creating an aristocracy. And yet you know the

attempt to to knock out any taxes on estates particularly large estates has created a situation of permanent equities in our society. There is an obligation to keep that estate tax in and I'm strongly supportive of of having that tax kept in place which reflects a responsibility and those who have great wealth to contribute to the society when the wealth changes hands through through to a death in the family. Of course we also recognize that that small businesses in particular are not the teen allies but what happened is that their wealthy interests drag small business in. Thrust into that debate and got people believing that that's what business ought to be in league with the wealthiest estate owners which they really are not. Now the entry. Now the question of the media coverage and the death of the Dean campaign end. And that incident after the one primary. I mean there's there's no question that it was played over hundreds of times and it had a

devastating impact on the campaign. And I suppose that was part of that was an intention to do so. You know we you know we live in a in a situation where you know the media likes to lift people up and they like you and I like to do the opposite. And so you know Governor Dean had you know what I saw was the most devastating treatment by by the media in 0 6 you know and playing that over and over and over again. And it really you know I think was an it was a deliberate attempt to try to change the nature of the debate. And well he's no longer in the race. People who do care about these issues will have someone to vote for. And the you know in our primary I'm in this race all the way to. Convention we have one caller left list include them for in a time someone on a cell phone on line number one. Good morning.

Hi good morning I live in the Chicago area. Dennis I've been following your campaign a little bit I think it's wonderful. I work for a labor union and I talk to a lot of workers all over the country. I've been watching the administration's record on workers in our country most particularly federal employees and the devastating impact that this president's administration has had on them through for example the Aviation and Transportation Security Act where the administrator of the new TSA has been given unfettered discretion on how to treat those workers and they don't have the right to organize and join a union and bargain collectively. And now in the Department of Homeland Security and even in the Department of Defense after winning what they call a very short and successful war in Iraq although I don't necessarily agree with that statement these employees now are being denied the right to collect. Targeting any interest that cult supposedly of national security. I realize that no one person

can can turn back the clock on these issues but I just wanted to say and I'm sure you would agree Dennis that there were folks that ran into those buildings on 9/11 they were union members and they didn't need to check what their or their steward or their local union president or their contract before they ran in there to die to save right. Damn right. Why would you kill even if you are successful in getting the nomination. What would you do to help these workers. Well first of all let let me tell you as as a president what my view would be I signed an executive order that would that would remove any barriers to to any of the federal workforce being organized. There's just no question that that the right to organize and the right to collective bargaining are fundamental rights in a democratic society and they'd not be denied government workers and the attempt to privatized government functions to the say 95 reviews is another case in point where there's an attempt to outsource government work as a way of wiping out existing unions.

Well you know people have have it in a democratic society inherent right here to organize and it ought not be vitiated in this government has done everything it can to try to defeat workers rights and show whether you know whether it's homeland security. The Department of Defense or any other important government functions people should have the right to organize and be able to bargain for their wages. Now you know in addition to that as president my my role would be to see the right to organize vindicated and that means that we need to wipe out those sections of Taft-Hartley that serve to defeat organizing attempts. So you know there's you know we really need to go back to what are the democratic principles that that ought to be sacrosanct. And I think the right to organize ought to be kept as a as a pillar of our democracy. And we need to reinstate it. And as a member of Congress I I've I've I've fought for it at every turn. And as a presidential candidate I never hesitate to mention that.