Focus 580; Focus 580 interview with Clyde Bellecourt

In this part of focus 580 will be talking about an issue that we certainly have discussed before although not in some time and that is that of the use of native American images symbols names words by sports teams. It has been an issue that has been up for debate in this community off and on for at least for the past few years. Although nationally it's not really a new issue. It's something that has been discussed and debated for about 30 years across the country and as a result many teams in colleges and universities have stopped using American Indian names and images for their sports teams. Among them Dartmouth Marquette Stanford the University of Oklahoma University of Southern Oregon Eastern Michigan St. Johns the largest Catholic university in America Miami of Ohio and many many high schools as well have done the same. Literally hundreds. Schools have made the decision to do this. However activists in this area continue to raise the issue because there are still

many schools who use them. Professional sports teams use them and it is an issue that from time to time we think it's worth discussing and we will be doing that here this morning with someone who has been involved in this for some time and they've gone the way we've done. It's one of the founders of the American Indian Movement as director of aim. He is also involved in an organization called the National Coalition on racism and sports and the media which is a group of people across the country that has come together really to discuss the issue to raise the issue and to try to persuade schools to not use Indian mascots anymore. Our guest was a major figure in the occupation of Wounded Knee back in 1973. He played a founding role in the International Indian Treaty Council. He's also directing the peacemaker center for Indian youth and the aim patrol which provides security for the Minneapolis Indian community and also as an organizer as I mentioned of the National Coalition

on racism in sports and media. He's here on the UI campus to talk about the issue to talk with students and in fact if you are interested he will be talking on this topic tonight at 7 o'clock at the Illinois disciples foundation. That's at the northwest corner of Springfield then right. And I'm sure that anyone who is interested in attending would be welcome. And of course questions comments are welcome here on the show. All you need to do is call us. The number here in Champaign Urbana 3 3 3 9 4 5 5 toll free 800 2 2 2 1 9 4 5 5. At any point all we ask is of callers just that they're brief so that we can accommodate as many different people as possible. But anybody is welcome to be a part of a conversation three three three W I L L toll free 800 1:58 W while. Well thanks very much for being here. Good morning. Appreciate it. This is something that. You know it has been talked about a lot here and on this campus for the last few years and it seems to be something where even people of goodwill

or he would think of themselves as people of goodwill people who would certainly would not think of themselves as racist or do anything outwardly racist. Still I think I have a difficult time understanding why Indian people are are so distressed by the symbol of the University of Illinois. Maybe let's let's make it localized and just talk about that and we can talk about some other things too and other places but let me ask you to talk about that why is it that you and I and other Indian people find chief L.A.X. so upsetting. Well first of all you're not an Indian. There's no tribe you are mostly doing people here and you know minorities have been made away daughter removed from their homeland. In order we were war bonnet chiefs bonnet Do you have to earn that. You know on on honeymoon that's ever done that yet in our history we don't run around with others and I come from a. Community in

Minneapolis where there is over 30000 innocent people living there and I've never seen and yet with chicken feathers naira paint on airfares and running around in some ridiculous Hollywood chant and dance and slapping themselves in mouth and making some type of war chant. So it's disparaging. It's racists it's ignorance. If they reverse the situation. I'm saying I'm save for maybe like. We have on a lot of black people for a week or month and see how black people feel about you know have a little mascot like black Little Black Sambo. Right. Call themselves black skins or negros or niggers and see what the response from the black community would be or maybe want to call themselves the Illinois kikes. You know put their little what are called the caps they were and religiously a little propeller on its back. Spin it around and make disparaging remarks about the

Jewish community and seek out a Jewish community feel about her maybe it's just some maybe a we've got to just call themselves the Illinois saints and we have crucifixes up and down and have some own mascot dressed up like to Pope running around and sprinkling holy water in the hold of drunks every time it's about to get made or come back and and and see me I'll be in my room for a workout and get a response from the Christian community then maybe they would understand how US Indian people feel they're not honoring us and you know we don't we don't want to be honored if that's what they call honoring a people people who are who are concerned about this issue and would like to see the chief or tire maker the very you give the very examples you give as a way of trying to get people to understand how it feels to you. And I think that people hear that and they say. Well no it's not like that. It's not it's not like that at all.

They they seem to feel that you know they hear you say that that it is a it is a just respectful sham representation of real Native American culture and that it's an appropriation of sacred symbols that to you a very important and that's something that I think people just don't get because that again they were they you know they would say well but it's not it's not the same thing it's not like you know what I think I think the reason why they don't get it because they have never been taught anything but and then people their culture their tradition and their form of government. They never learn anything you know so most of America today still has this John Wayne you know kind of John Wayne fronter mentality about him and people and the reason why they have that to do just totally. Scholastically retarded you know when it comes to an end people have never been taught any different. Even though you're going for Thanksgiving and your time to really talk about it people around. Thanksgiving are when Columbus discovered America when they celebrate that

particular day had a national holiday. Then they'll talk about it in people for maybe a week or so and it all forgotten again the rest of the year except for the mascot and it's really discouraging because I've been to many games friends of my son or my grandson when the Washington football team come to town or Kansas City you know and I'm sat in the stand. Got a bunch of people that are drinking and I don't drink you know understood by me and maybe the Vikings will you know go ahead of every beehive not afraid. Football as well as a good drink Martin have started making remarks like massacre and call them up and you know and stuff like that and my grandson and my son know that not only upsets Stabat upsets me and the first thing that they want me to do is move. Come on Dad let's go let's go home now why should my children have to be forced you know to go home knowing that there's going to be a confrontation and it usually is because I respond to that

that a race of I'll say stop then and use your head up an argument of security is there the police are there and they either remove the people or find me a nice better seat Double-O or something to to get rid of sort of a lot of people would even go to a game you know want to watch you know Kansas City or Cleveland or Allana is in town because they know that that's the kind of fans that we have in the statens you know they just don't actually believe that to actually be that they're honoring us you know. Well we've got your brain recalled your warriors recall you chips you know there's not in all of those names there's nothing at all of those names to behavior. That creates the psychological effect that has on Indian children young people to see that and witness that you know red white and Brue chicken feathers and their pain all over her face. You see their belly hanging out in a can of beer in one hand a rubber tomahawk and that's

not a depiction. It's now the Indian people proud honorable people and have been since the first boatload of year there's been over 400 treaties that have been made within in people in every single one of them would be invalid as I said to you right now. Every one of those treaties and there are legal documents sometimes that predate the very Constitution United States and particularly the states that have. Organizing became states often a land that was ceded to them in those treaties are starting to prevail today in the state of Minnesota others are treated that goes back to 1837. That said in people never give up the right to hunt fish gather wild rice excited it's been a Supreme Court rule in less than a month ago where we prevailed and we fought that for almost 30 solid years in not only the American war but the tribes that we were supporting so. And there just now is there's just not an awakening as far as Indian people are concerned we

have real student organizations like yours that Illinois that are you know looking into in college are invited speakers who have been in studies programs across America today and why do they have them. Reese what it hadn't is people don't know anything. They don't know anybody in and sort of have to create these programs and there's the very fact that they created Indian Studies program whether it be here at Illinois Universe Miss Wardour Berkeley and caliber as an indictment in itself against a system you can see educate a whole educational process because this is something that they have neglected and they try to appease us by creating a little hole program within the universe or something that should be studied every day of the week. If you never it should be written into every book in all of curricula not just in people who are black in his paddocks and Southeast Asians other cultures that live here today instead of having black history month and then month and now Southeast Asian month Hispanic one. I think it should be written in any data to back up my

own personal feelings Vodou school data backed trucks up and vote all those bad curricula up and go dump in the dumps and rewrite it and include everybody be inclusive if they want to talk about but in it people are or black people or Hispanic people talk about cultural diversity. I think cultural diversity should go on daily not month to me on a monthly bit one month a year. We have to call her to talk with. Let's do that in Champaign. Why Number one I don't already. Yeah I want to thank you for having me speaker here this morning and I wanted to let him know something that is going on in the area that I think would be of interest to him. A local group called Women Against Racism has sponsored our current task. For a mascot for the new millennium for the University of Illinois course it is not associated with the University of Illinois. And we're happy to say that we have received over

70 almost 80 entrants into our contest and we're hoping to announce a winner on May 2nd and we hope to present that winner on campus on May 3rd. And our whole thrust for this contest was to move forward. There's a debate about the chief to move it onto another level to say that we are tired of it and we are going to present the university with another choice. And so we're looking forward to that and we hope that you will keep in contact with what's going on with us locally. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's going to take groups an organized effort like yourself and what you're doing to make that that change if there's enough public pressure of course to name which ranks there's no doubt doubt about that so I want to thank you for your efforts and hope that we can stay in contact with one another. In addition to seeing that the chief retired Would you also

like to see the name changed. And I have no longer have the sports teams called the aligning. Well like I say it's not clear. It's not the name it's the behavior that's created by it. I don't see any problem with the line I you know I think it's the image as portrayed by the the Chiefs for what they called the chief is what's really bad and we target this particular institution University of Illinois is going to come down to Minneapolis or come to town I mean not only do we target but some of the directors of the various sports programs in Minneapolis refuse to even use the name anymore. I read in here about to be achieved. McKinley Boston who is the director of the sports program at the. University of Minnesota said he wouldn't play any off season games between the University of Minnesota and Illinois. You know

Detroit has and there's support you to research support her friends ever reported for. Do you when you talked earlier about your personal feelings about not just the chief but using and using names and images like the Braves and the Redskins that had been used by professional teams and talked about your experiences I'm now attending a professional sports event and how people would conduct themselves. But I wonder does this go beyond simply something that is a matter of hurt feelings or bad feelings can you make the argument that having these images is really bad for Indian people in a in a real physical sort of way. Well when we first got involved with it as well I mean on a national level to really put some emphasis on it it was when your line of Brave came to Minneapolis to play a World Series against the Minnesota Twins and we went into the public school system and the private sector you know private school in

particular how did your survival school. And we interviewed children from kindergarten all the way on and ask them what their feelings were about. He's our mascot. Every single child. Was against it. We started interviewer people in a community and we thought that knowing that children going to school but everyone almost everyone in person or city rappers was against it and to prove it and to show it to me when I was addressing a world human rights conference on opening day of the World Series. You know and they were celebrating Martin Luther King and all that and all the civil libertarians from all over the world were gathered there and I was the keynote speaker right prior like two hours before about an hour before the game started and I confronted him I told him that Martin Luther King was alive today he would suspend the agenda and he would join in people and he would march on and he would a chump read on and put a stop to that behavior and lo and behold they suspended the agenda. And they joined us

and within one week we had up close to 100 churches unions schools and community based organizations all way from the local to the National Congress of American Indians to every human and civil rights organization in the country joined us in that effort we had close to 7000 people marched in this all happened within one week and it was unbelievable how much support and then of course the creator blessed us because in our two now three months later he bought the Super Bowl to Minneapolis and because you know the Super Bowl with the Washington. Team was there again along with the Buffalo Bills. And by this time we had over 10000 people. So we knew that we had national support that there are hundreds and thousands of people felt the same way reader and it became a an issue that was debated throughout the world I mean that it was on an international level. Were columnists and sports writers started

debating the issue or getting hundreds and thousands of letters and calls not only unsupported but those that still believe that they're honored under notes and I was a. Right up to the Super Bowl I was asked to be on Sports Lead USA in prime time and I'm talking like 6:30 7:00 o'clock in the evening out there to a game and that I was on Sportsline USA and here is my opportunity to address the whole world you know I interviewed at Clyde ball courts you know they got a lot of jawans and they got it. Retired from tennis with AIDS and you know sports celebrities the Michael Jackson Johnson and yonder and big sports heroes like that. That's not me and I was honored and I wouldn't be under 20 minutes of honor for an hour and a half and the amazing part about all the guy thought he was going to be a major confrontation All right racist and rednecks from all over America would be the Archie Bunker's America because then it was just the opposite.

Every single person that called supported. In eliminating those kinds of names that are all the black symbols and examples of restaurants if they were taught with all these things are goners to pass John Wayne's death it's time for America to go there making remarks like that. And I made that comparison to a Methodist minister out of Atlanta Georgia who called me it's all come on Mr. Barker of more important things or do you know and Tucker baseball club we don't mean any harm it's America's past time he was talking like Patton Oswalt reverent Tell me about the more important thing and the only thing he could come up with was the same old stereotype I think you're in and people are doing something about your alcoholism and on and on and I said well and going to you don't pay any taxes you get all these cuts you know springing up. And I said well wait a minute let me tell you we're all call came from as we had no form of alcohol we're going to only live in culture and we'll have no trace of I'll call it

was bought over on a boat. I said in fact I said the Bible the devil and alcohol came on the same boat and to get a devastating effect to suggest it is a tremendous It's a national health issue for and people but now we have our culture back in 1972 past American Religious Freedom Act and we're using that purification sermon hundreds and thousands of our people get rid of the alcohol enjoy cutting on right away is another thing about these casinos and you're making all the millions of dollars you're not paying taxes to women. And let me tell you we're gambling came from as if church was created with Bengal in their dirty little tricks you know nice and stuff we're knowing about. We built because you know it's a test of our sovereignty Yes we do have gambling in Minnesota after 24000 people work in the casino industry that's where it started. Another 24000 20000 among non Indian people. That work can get good jobs and a painter.

Taxes and then I went on to make that same argument with them you know about well why don't you call yourselves do you have a lot of saints and if you have crucifixes and once I did that you know and then he changed right away he became a supporter. He said When we first saw him he talked about the great American family you know his wife was a teacher of cultural diversity and I grew up in a preacher and my daughter Perry of the Oregon and everyone leaves acquired a great all-American family and he started all this ignorance I mean to me by the time we got in that interview I mean it is obvious that this guy knew nothing not a thing about but it but after going through that conversation with him for about five or six minutes he changed completely. He became an ally he wanted to do something there to put a stop to that himself. It like to reintroduce Again our guest. Nigga no way we done. It's co-founder and executive director of the American Indian Movement. He is also directing the peacemaker center for Indian youth in the name patrol which provides security for the

Minneapolis Indian community. He is an addition an organizer of the National Coalition on racism in sports and the media which is an organization that aims at trying to raise people's consciousness on this issue of Indian names symbols images and their use by sports teams. He'll be talking by the way about the symbol of the University of Illinois chief L.A.X.. Tonight the year by campus or just off the year by campus. Seven o'clock the Illinois disciples foundation so if you're interested in hearing some more from him on this particular issue you're welcome to do that of course questions here are welcome as well three three three W I L L toll free 800 1:58 W while we mention the beginning of the program that this is something that people have been talking about for for a while for a number of years for something like 30 years almost 30 years and that there have been many school systems. A number of universities that have dropped there in their Indian mascots and change the names of

their teams. I. Use it. Do you feel that from your perspective progress on the issues being the tremendous part is actually over. Fifteen hundred schools colleges universities that have made that change already we had a nother recent federal court ruling that came out of Washington and you know where they're not allowed to use the trademark anywhere and for them to have their football team right. And of course there are people are not sort of continuing to use Intel exhaust all of their appeals but there are several national organizations the National Congress Americans International Treaty Council the American Indian Movement the Morning Star Foundation out of New York and several other leaders that joined in a particular lawsuit and National Congress or American and it covers every Indian tribe and in America and they endorsed that you know on a

mystery and became a friend of the court met. Lawsuit So we have we have prevailed on that and we have lost was going to Cleve and I can just sit here online and particularly in Cleveland where a target in Cleveland because the Chief Wahoo for a while who you know the guy that's Keith runs from one here to the other and a red face and a big huge feather and low pin pointed head what a huge ears to his teeth are bigger than his whole head and a little feather were targeting that particular team. The progress that we're making that we have gotten our coalition and the National Council of Churches to have a huge performer you know you know they put their pump. Millions and millions of dollars into these colleges and universities and do sponsorships and they all have businesses and so we have got men to join us. And they're talking about withdrawn sponsorships of teams and if they don't make

that change so I started to pick up. On a national level so are making tremendous head we're not only in that arena but not just names in particular. Not only in the media in the movie industry but for instance in the state of Minnesota. They have several places called squab Rivers qua point. They use the name squad squad very very derogatory to Indian women. It was used by the French traders when they wanted a woman for the night and it was a name that they would use that had squat within it so what they're looking for as are so many go to bed with. And that's what squad means it means a few male organ and of course not knowing that we have squad Valley today and we have all the same and we are targeting other states and we have had legislation that eliminated out in the state of Minnesota. We have budgets lation that's limited in Arizona and we're just moving across to here. Country to get rid of those those types in

the right. Downtown Phoenix we have a squad point. We have a mountain and town are called Quad point in the freeway expressway that runs through the city of Phoenix or squads called squab point highway. So if they know what they are they want to be politically correct you know it and they would correct that name and call it what it really is and women and you know of course women's organizations have stood up against that and it's been the women that have really made that move those two young Indian girls have been sort of kicked out the whole effort. You know 14 and 16 years old I didn't like the name of the community they came from which was called squab point on the reservation and they started to move in the legislature pick it up and eliminated. Through out whole states we're making we're making tremendous progress with the cases you mention with the Redskins this is interesting that this was a decision by the measure of a patent and that the trademark office based on law that says you cannot

trademark or patent an image or something that is it is racist and they ruled they ruled against that and I guarantee that means that doesn't mean that the Washington Redskins if they wanted that doesn't say they can't continue to call the team the Redskins but what it means is they don't have the their trademark protection so that they can prevent someone else from making t shirts and red hats whatever it is using that name and that. Well if that's all it is it's an economic thing you know like when I was in L.A. We met with John Travolta not too long after that the Super Bowl took place in the World Series left town and Ted Turner invite us to come in to watch the butler in their leaders and from all over the country I happen to be chair and the meeting that took place there and they said when Ted Turner bought the line a brazen bottom two or two. He wanted to change the name right then and there but the shareholders. There was a big thing a man or

celibate or selling this kind of thing you know all the time locksmith had dresses and shirts and sweater and their argument was if they if they eliminated the name that it would take them two or three years to phase it out because of the economics you know the chest selling of the sweaters and caps and Tomei I couldn't buy that argument because I knew that if they made their last round you know on a sweater or a T-shirt or a captor no doubt the price of that sweater for $60 would go up to three hundred sixty dollars or $260 because everybody would want it so we understood then that it was true as to Korea and you know the terror of it was a big thing Mr. Selma's your very dear and I do every year in shop when I've seen toilet paper witchy for Linux on it. Actually everything you see and town are in a way you know. I mean if they're so proud of their name and so proud of the chief Why do they put them on a piece of toilet paper and wet the butt with it every day you know I mean God what were their heads. I mean you know

there's something wrong you know and that's that has to change. But anyway I was I was talking to John Schuerholz and it's a Jewish organization and. We weren't making much headway in red a middle of the conversation he says Well Mr Bell could if you had all Ted Turner's money you know and well when I first started I mean it was probably only had like 20 minutes and I had to try out mode of country to make our presentation I'm going to describe 45 minutes to me it was going to be all over it. So knowing that it was a Jewish organization I talked about the Holocaust. I said you know we should never forget the Holocaust because it could happen again and I went through a trauma every time I pick up a newspaper or radio station television and movies. It's all here but that's all I see and then I switched and I said well what about the Holocaust you know people 50 million in addition to Jewish people here today those tribes have been totally decimated. Gandhi no longer has it been 50 million Indian people race in the face of yours and I want to talk about the holocaust of a black people that kind of open up the whole thing. We were there for

almost four hours that it were right in the middle of the conversation. They are getting a little irritated and he jumped in John Schuerholz sort of general manager and he said well we had all of Ted Turner money what would you name the team. And just like Dad the creator give me the answer you know. And I told him that I thought it would be more fitting to the culture you're in. The culture here in the L.A. area and what they have done to removed all Indian people from the West is part of the country and what they have done to black people that they call themselves the A-line a Klansman and you have it you know instead of giving out Thomas you give everybody a sheet to world ahead. And during the seventh inning stretch I said maybe you can have a mock hanging of a black or Gaston about you or this guy just turned. He just turned about six different colored eyes well wait a minute wait a minute as if we had all Ted Turner's money and we bought this team we were never dreamed we'd never think about doing that to another race of human beings

has had a shot come to get him to understand then he starts talking about how Ted Turner wanted to he wanted to call a team around the Eagles. He wanted to call it he knew he could foresee that some data in and people were going to stand up and in theory he didn't like the name itself. He wanted so I think we have some friends and shortly after that I got a letter about two months later from Ted Turner were going to run. They're going to run this 22 part series on endurance you probably saw that you know every day we depicted a lot of troops in fact he sent a team up and I would do in a canoe trip from the headwaters the Mississippi River to many of 500 45 mile canoe trip and that's where he started a whole series they still met and he wrote me a letter and he thanked me for coming to land and he was going to do this series and and all that and I wrote him back a letter and I thanked him for all the considerations and appreciate young people appreciate wait and but I said it's not enough. The

name still has to go. Bad behavior still has to go but we we're still on course. Let's talk with somebody else and here is our banner color line 1. Hello. Yeah I got a question. I was I was talking to some people who were like against removing the name and the mascot out there right. And I myself don't see why would anybody be against something that offends so many people right and I was at the the argument they heard a lot is like do your revenues of the team with fall and stuff could you tell us. If like the other teams that have changed their name actually seen the revenue for what's going on in that market I think we have not heard from anyone from Stanford to Dartmouth on any of the National well-known colleges that have made that change. Dave went on just talking this morning with one of the students or adults Bonser and there's this organization that's sponsoring my being here today a ball of team outside of Minneapolis Who Fought

strenuously to keep your name because all the burns go braves and you have their little cheerleaders you know dressed up with buckskin friendly tights on and chicken feathers no hair and paint on their face and all that and when the school board finally made the move I was there at the meeting when they finally made a move to change the name they left it up to the students to come up with a new name. I mean it was bedlam I mean people were crying and screaming and all and I stayed there for hours after that. The school board met made the decision and talked with us during the next or where you come up with a name you come up with a good name and you're going to still be a chappy because they really do usually choppers or baseball or basketball or football or hockey and. You know in the last 10 years they have won and a title of one title how most every year and two months later of a big article in a paper were the students selected a name to

burn Burnsville bullies and their state champions. Today every grand I brazed happy everybody's excited. We have had other situation like in Menominee Wisconsin at stout State University where the school board voted something like 13 to 11 to 2 to change the name and the community there was a backlash to community came down and armed. They kicked the school board members that voted in favor of that change up the school board and they reinstated it. The Menominee Indians are going to be speaking there next month. So there are still efforts to to go into reverse again so that people out holy Nandina for dear life with the names and images in the stereotypical images were portrayed and don't want to make that change once they're educated once they understand the effect that it's having on and in people it's they generally will will want to make that change. So everything goes back to education.

Who what our children are really learning in schools you know we're all we all want to go Katherine's and Boy Scouts of America and I was those things myself when I was a young young boy and it's all based on in a culture of or somewhere along the line and after they get out of work because it's all a loss again. So it's just it's a matter of education. I think all of these names there's no doubt in my mind that they will change we will have black players. Professional Hall of Famers are joining us into this whole effort. People that weren't even allowed to play football weren't even allowed to play basketball or baseball because of their color skin. You know saying well they can think they can never be a quarterback you know what about Randall Cunningham You know. Who are great athletes for Charles Mann and Franco Harris multimillionaires to drive really five million dollars a year later through play football knowledge started to drain us and separate knowing that they themselves women have what they have today if it

weren't for Martin Luther King and others that stood up in defense in support of the elites. No not very long ago within the past couple of years I interviewed a woman a native american woman at the University of Illinois here who was in the elementary education field and one of the things that she has written about and has done is she's gone into schools particularly with her young children and talked about about Native Americans. And she said that she over and over again has this experience where she goes into schools and she runs into little kids who first of all think well that there aren't any Indians anymore and they add they seriously ask her well well how did you get here did you ride a horse. And she and she says Well no I have a mustang well out of the money I have a car you know what's out there. And she's and they're expecting to see an Indian like you see in the movies you know growth for a living in teepees and yeah paddling down the river in a canoe and you know they don't they don't yes as a people as a part of the diverse community that we live in to

how do you what do you do about that how how do you how do you educate people and know that. He this is On the one hand it's a people who are very proud of their history and their traditions and wanting to hold on to culture and yet at the same time there are modern and modern people and that they need that you can be both those things at the same time well you know it all like it all goes back to education and I come from the state of Minnesota and one of the books that they taught us about in people for years was called Minnesota Star in-order and not even talked about our government our tradition the contributions that we've made how we lived from season to season and how we hunt and fish to what type of government we had there was nothing and then it all started with a local uprising started with the war of 1862 and they didn't have pictures of any answer they would draw what I look like to them you know as always. They always had us farmers burned on the background and the poor farmer

laying in the field there on his back. The little babies are going to mother's leg and then guy's got her hair pulled back and he's cut in there. Cut my head off you know her scalp. And in Internet we don't have teeth back then we had fangs that hung down by a chain you know and blood flowing out from this is the way to pick a name people and this is what children see that the people of the adult people that are teaching and setting on the school boards today and the Board of Trustees are the Regents of the university if that's the kind of education that they have all had. That's why talk about a scholastic and retardation you know that prevails in America is John Wayne fronter mentality what they've what they've seen in those kinds of books and the movies is WePay c of in people of a sort only way that that can be and we've done it in Minnesota you know it was noon and people I got that book because we we help there was white students had a book burning in a little town called robins a lot so I mean at all about their school book to school and they had a

rally that night near burnt that school book up. It was 20 years outdated never still used it not once did they ever talk about any of the contributions that Indian people immediately pick as heathens and savages in the state of Minnesota one of our founding father was a guy named Henry Sibley an Indian people called them long life. Because they knew nothing about scalping he was going re stability. He was a governor Kalm opened up a new farm in the mid 15 hundreds that invented scalping you know by a swell became too cumbersome to be buried in and by experience I have to bring enders called to collect your bounty and they're bringing in bastard little baskets in the gunny sack full of skulls and church ladies start speaking out about it well we gotta get this change it's gruesome what you're doing in it people. So he put on order to prove that you kill an Indian That's why you had to bring in a lock of her hair. Well most of us believe that in people where the scalpers would have wanted Bennett we did it we did in revenge because we

know about a lot of effect it had on us you know about it and Minnesota it was a governor one of our first governors and been scalping you know so another that has ever been told nothing to do with has ever been told. So where do we get it we get it from the curriculum that's not written by and then people that interviewed elders and their interviewer directed the stories and changed its history and talk about their contribution. We get it from the movie the movie industry or comic books kids watch television they watch comedies whether it be Mickey Mouse whatever it is you know people always to bag you know. They're burning people are burning villages down or they're killing people. We're going to have to stop on Sarita saying we have some people we're not going to get a chance to talk to you but I want to mention again that our guest for today and gone away we done he's going to be talking tonight on this very topic had the Illinois disciples foundation at 7:00 so people are interested in hearing more. Can you can do that. And

thanks very much. Thank you and come out for the presentation and I knew gone away with Don and the thunder before the storm. I mean you know that. Thank you.