American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with C. T. Vivian, 2 of 2

la yeah and so we we come to the two are the dr we come into jackson and we stopped at the beach greyhound bus station so we stopped there and then i have to earn it like everyone else so i am and since i'm at the front and getting ready to get off but somebody up front runner was in charge says the victim stay on we get the rear guard right and an end and makes certain everybody is off and everything's all right so i don't say nothing i know today where roads are so so i do and so i met him the last one to go into the bus station

and the last one and then two and to come out by the time i came out of the police station this psalm or captain had put everybody into video republicans are in the paint to the ballet way i was in the penny wade in an aon hewitt was telling his men to close the door i'm still outcomes on his allies from coming out there and he doesn't know that i was in there so i saw that tapping on the shoulder and i said and he turned around and i was looking for the turnaround and i said i'm with them and forgive them and he eat a lot and then he turns his face to run because he's smiling since it is a

state so on are all and then and then really got to go to turn dark brown he said get in there so you're there and render arrest and i were taken to the jail the arm and we own get out though that can go right upstairs to to where they can begin to scientists in and take a stand to sales ah thats interesting at this point because of how we handled the whole thing is that jim lawson had been in jail in india and now add come to realization oh how you allow yourself to be treated and two and we

bought into it that you saw that we began to not to run to pick up our meals right quick because that's exactly what they want because at the human rights issue people fighting over food or arguing over food are trying to get to the food before somebody else so we refuse to do it and we organize yourself we were all set at mealtime we would offset there and there would be one cable that are one person from each table which ever happen or two prequel from each table that would go to the little slip that was a marriage when you're just so swiftly past trees and bring the food to everyone at the table so we

would all sit there and be served right and reached a lot and then now and they're not and we'd sit there and meet people normally would if you were at a summer camp yeah it was it was amazing what it did to them the jailers did not understand it or they thought they haven't figured out but the people who were in jail that was working there and or we're moving prisoners or working for the chair right date they don't like it you write it gave them real sense of beans and somebody sues city and they began to see us immediately it's quite different from anybody else of course everybody in jackson the week they did

npr arts and they thought that was quite something and it was it was good for us to write with a different way to approach it was an alternative to the regular way of life and that's what mankind's was an alternative that human actions you see that and india and we also at other rules you know you first right they came back for the first ringtone callers with it oh yeah i remember it very well remember going to court but the and that was the butt and say i remember the first arraignment as when we came back projects right but to date there and i don't remember saying in having to go

into court but i do when i don't take it you know i don't remember who are been on dr stan wright and they're talking to me and and later on one of the reporters said you're you and we thought really loved everybody there and it was in that case a question and i talked to him you know back and forth and i was mad about and so i was just you know answered him and know we had a regular conversation with this if we were in a regular civil court an unknown member reporters saying this but you got to

do because i think the most vigorous would have never said that they went up to the place you know where you stand and try and the judge and they ask you the question because i've been in other courts where you just don't have to ask you the question are you guilty and you say yes or no and you go this way that you know they're okay remember were in in the jail downtown for about a week or so before we go out since some good stories in there about that are given i give a couple or is that eu is clear on every detail of that is that they can see clearly now now you are you does the visceral the thing is an o so so

what when we we were awakened early that morning earlier than usual and now are told to get dressed in their stuff together and we really but they didn't say where to wear anything right so we did an hour we got into the police cars and so forth the risk taking us out to parchment prison well are then we noticed that that this same policeman a tall kind of follow that a he had it that they were that he couldn't stand the fact that i was in a buck and looking down and that i was in fact looking in the eye and just speaking to him as though it was anybody else he was going out there do i was about forty miles away

there were some dissidents it's so yes they are our own as early like four o'clock in the morning there's some very early morning we were used to it they got out a bit and told us to get ready and get our stuff together and cause we really and so last week we did we did and i am a person prescribers and start to shout to party so we went there we got there and they put us in the cell and the cell block and then they started

interviewing each one of us and a young lady was the first one and as i remember she came back crying right i was the second person and so i went in and just interviewing and not worry about it so aha via but i could tell that the fellow wanted something to happen but the recent three worst for them to sort of inner circle and chairs and i was in a chair in front of a big back a ways dr oz and david ashley question from pierce gardner an eyewitness answer yes or no and then he told me you know you're you know you say yes sir no sir and i think a good time with murder great problems risen to

about we've already declared a revered for i didn't need to do a protest at the policeman everyday and so they're sweeter for the question then suddenly as ray eddy you have do you have syphilis and has a low income of greylock and during the eisenhower and said no and no and instead of citizens who said no and now or that was the key and they jumped on me well know there was this worldwide our concerts and one guy that debt of the sky crane settlers in a circle he was trying to an event he would hit me and then jump back and then look at them grin or something and everything he was durum was

saying he was less than lot more than that so i don't quite understand is npr but then finally when i answered i'm going to say sir that's when they jumped on all of them would dilute i didn't remember but the rest of them today and they're in that particular candidate come out with them was the guy that was really most radical in his intent to get to me and he had a that jack rabbits that it's and editors who have a letter around and that's what it was for it was to bruise you but not to bleed you but as they attacked an and just put my hands is that it's through here with him off and a twisted in his head

and the aid jews of that double letter coming together that it caught me right down there to here and shipley via and blood spouting and the blood spattered they'll jump back because they weren't supposed to do that the idea was to bruce not to bleed i am dr and they called it off and then they set me back to myself they sent a guy with me i am the road that went with me he stopped at this big steel door to anyone who's been to a gao notes that when you hear word of a big steel door to something you never forget and so i am but he motioned me to going to work to have their cell block there's a little

narrow passageway to it right and i was about ten pro you think that that slightly more from him when i feel something like going right on the back of my head i could not only did i feel and it was like a pristine something and it was red and you know i couldn't see but it's like having a dream and you see colorado and no but he couldn't hit me it was too far away and nor did he hit me it was just as sgt he's kind of feeling it went down the back of my head so i turn around an hour because when something unusual happens until we turned to another human being and he was their turn around as if to say to him oh you know did you feel that and when i got fully around looking at him he had a thirty eight on me

and it was and i was looking into his eyes right above the media for thirty eight and nine so i just stood there at this analysis relaxed and looked at him as if to say what is wrong with you and i still looking straight year and he after i don't know ten twenty seconds you know you don't really think about time in a situation like that that it went along and now he decided he would so we just jammed his journey back into his poster and then you slam the door and turned in brooklyn back down our way so we could make the turn to get back out for npr i went to her

you say whoa what was that i don't know but i think it was eleven and i think it was god your name right and that carries the slow to protect you will still use well initially i mean i think there's two things that but they were so much more advanced in his thinking on the issue again then the president there president was concerned about putting through legislation that was his concern he had to solve to always deal with and to get his legislation through he needed to seven senators so

he was always doing that it wasn't just a matter of any one time you could go ahead of the game here and he was doing it on the voting rights bill so forth so it was that kind of concern the head of that made the difference for them get to get legislation passed you are well you're right the committee has come check your nose is great you on and in the script and we all you know that point was that precisely this way i don't know if he was ever really progressive congress right this isn't brother was from the beginning that not new but not him is

he it was only as the reader regular politician ali johnson was the one who really passed legislation that was johnson that really was there doing a james at last made a difference you remember that go to jail no bail the idea is that we would go to jail and not take betty wright is in other words you don't have to put up with us aren't we were we've used just going to walk out gao no bail it is at the end we will be here and tell you deal with what we're talking about simply to be bailed out is another way of getting

making certain that you don't go to court on that they never have to really tasty issue i can use their regular courtroom means of keeping everything quiet you know why many who are uninsured that way offices because it's totally ways is that number one anyone who who doesn't respect to humanity of others oh it doesn't respect his own humanity and doesn't come to look for understanding of those around him and so that the whole culture is defiled in the process

and the deer and the other second thing is pretty soon you'll begin to hate the people that you misuse because it gives you an excuse to do and which are doing they made two it is very cold treat self it becomes it's legal structure and everything else about law in order forced into that race or spit an end and everything mission lord for every paycheck or you think about it is that they themselves did not have didn't make the money it should have made until after the civil rights movement a there's hardly any right word that was fulfilled in regard to poor white people and to have to survive

well as martin said and you get so cool not that patients are for working around you nothing ever happens that you don't give up your movement forward for cooling off period where it is needed now we in fact there was a kid taken a statement martin head of seconds it was a very very good one i just don't remember it in detail but the idea is is that we have no reason to work to cool off had no reason to stop you know recently that they were going to stop so we moved forward and continue to flow yeah something that says to see that that's closer to the

line and i was a friend and i realized i couldn't live there are even guards had all that gets dicey idea is that we have been calling on for this week or not far too long i think the line cuts would be the perfect place for an invention trigger out of objects to what did you sell that's good and opportunity let's get exact line again and that we'd been global cooling off the last hundred years yeah he is a pivotal been more like him to save the last three hundred to be more than that most of our normal replied to that

was we have been calling on far too long i believe that the martin line recently been calling on for almost three hundred years now for over two hundred years with the right now at and messed up because you oh yeah bobby kennedy it's as for cooling off period and our reply was that we'd been calling all far too long this was the time to act furthermore the fear always was when you accept that sort of thing you'd fall into a trap right and that means that that they expect you to stop torture during your of the

forces behind you are dissatisfied with that standoff math because they don't believe just like you that nothing is going to happen until you act action was basic to the civil rights movement and now it's a principle that people don't see is that they just think you acted all actions lieutenant corey well it's a quarter which ones with one right now i can tell you're great story via in nashville are we invited to do great you later to become supreme court justice to speak at the delegate marshall and now

so he was to speak and we got telephone calls from the fire department and from the place to park and that they had heard that the dylan was to be bombed by we were in the gym at fisk university so we end that the and our department wanted to investigate so we who understand going into the back and now the crowd went up to today on the campuses to wait for the place to park while we were in the back leaving many workers you know we had seen the legal

strategy of nw cp when our a great lookout cases in education they had won it right and now a whole new era had come in terms of the strategies used by black people no it is but nothing changed in the south which made it necessary for a new strategy to rise and that new strategy was a nonviolent direct action and now our everybody did not understand and right at it was hard for a number of other organizations to do it or to understand so and in some ways world well that was a term but it was more than the streets and this is what has to be seen to see it was more than a tactic it was in fact a way of life it was a

tactic for some of the way of life for southern christian leadership conference snag large resource attack which jan created some sort of a disagreement in and relationships some people ensnared like john lewis saw it as a way of life not just a tactic right up that created a disturbance inside out our core are understood nonviolent jim farmer understood nonviolence and had started a nonprofit right but it was not understood by many of these people like the immigrant rights group ms bass bass bass

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