Prospects of Mankind with Eleanor Roosevelt; 208; Congo: Challenge to the UN

wright recorded at the united nations a new national educational television presents wgbh tv production mrs eleanor roosevelt prospects of mankind nina as the session of the united nations general assembly reagan being a major focus for the returning delegate was item eleven on the agenda the situation in the congo the new chief american representative ambassador adley stevenson escort mrs roosevelt into the opening meeting she returns of the united states' delegates for the first time since nineteen fifty two stevenson has quickly earned a reputation as a wise unsympathetically they're sensitive to the complex problems confronting today at un headquarters he is mrs roosevelt special guest we're able to do this for faith of mankind

and the congo the united nations headquarters because the congo has raised some of the most important and difficult questions at this session of the general assembly and after stephenson a very happy concrete to hear today and the daily events of the congo and the united nations have been so complicated and confusing that we're trying to take a long look at the problem to understand what its meaning is for us city a key element in the whole picture is the agreement among the congolese leaders themselves read because you say how they can possibly come together and compose some of their differences in order that they may build a sovereign state it can go as we know is a vast

territory i've had the privilege of traveling across the place now in them that comprises not only enormous variety of them of sorrows of far as climates at the torso of peoples and languages at the concentrations and leopold own list with vail and i'm standing there with industrial civilization are on far far from one another and measured by thousands of miles the problem of governing such a country by unitary system from one central location has even even there been impossible for much more advanced things in our own case we adopted a federal system and there are samples centralization of authority is only come very

gradually sam has been so even the soviet union for that and to a lesser degree at least the same time offender re they said a great variety of unconscious and civilizations of people sam has generally been true of most large companies so we had in the congo are a unitary system with a strong central government imposed by the handgun by the original constitution that they adopted inherited from the belgians last spring since then the country has fallen in this and do a disagreement as we know and do and separate don't as segment strongly and they could target the rich area are have been quite separate quite independent from cast iron from leopoldo and from the oriental problems were standing failings so leave them and even people on another one of them prince four provinces has acted separately from time to talk so that we have the fact that this member of the original unitary plan ad seems to me that what they are leaders are

beginning to do are groping for is some sort of a federal system and this is what happened at that their meeting in baghdad that are really when they met and discussed the possibility of finding some common ground to save their country from the disasters of total disintegration and i just highly and the country will be federated on what basis it remains to be seen but it would seem to me that their man this is the best hope for the congo these separate large units that comprise is a major province is now each of them headed by am a leader because a balloon leopoldo generally recognized as the constitutional chief of state the regional president charmian and now i'm in a kind of rich mining area behind them come on ji and cast iron and he's angry and i'm standing bill and so

that each of these people and it must've find some way of accommodating their separate ambitions and their separate german separatism of their regions you know some larger federation when the central authority over financial reform policy over the military that something and i'm not sure how and when this is going to come about that for my part of mrs roosevelt i can see no other solution to the congo accent dale federation i think the really difficult it is for most of us to re lives the size of the african continent and the difference what do you think and began to improve the relations between different states at hand the united nations now live una any hopes for that feeling there we'll have

a united nations and now the security council adopted a resolution on may twenty first of february i wish i had a number of provisions in the implementation of these provisions them has them is proceeding but very very slowly and on than that not by any means on a satisfactory basis in the first place as a problem over control of the armed forces the armed forces are now divided among these various states fighting with one another not responsive to discipline dave dangerous if you please elements i remember they remarkably am and a very intelligent nigerian here not long ago who said to me that day and our great country at the time of independence of each of the year politically visit had a private army we know what about the country that's why we have in a sense in the congo until there were willing to relinquish the entire private armies today on fat to a central authority until they can be brought under control by the

united nations until the yemen and military interventions from outsiders stop the ad by the belgians or anyone else it's going to be extremely difficult when these things are done however with any goodwill in any anxiety any national sense of national patriotism on the part of these leaders i should think you'd be possible to pull the country together meanwhile it depends upon the united nations extent to which piece in order i can be preserved in the country and the conditions established in which a viable republican and b you can come to the relations now at the united nations of course are not good because the united nations is constitutes a threat to the independence sovereignty of each of the independent league is the objective of the united nations is an air is the belgian congo as a whole will not be a welfare of

any of the individual leaders right now we're we're not been the part of the body and in the billboard is indispensable to the united nation's military operation it's the commencement of our line of supplies support which are ships from europe and the united states dr maloney says the railroad to leopold the united nations forces that there had been forced out by the hair present movement until they can be restored until a port can be operated properly with security by the united nations and for the benefit of our of our operation there it's going to be extremely difficult hey i am i wish i had me a short answer viewer questions to how we can bring about a better relationship between the leadership and the heavy in the congo and the united nations until we do there's going to be no solution so there's going to be no real solution and i won the great difficulties of course at least one that

looms large in many people's minds is no financial problem but the carrying of the united nations' situation in the congo oh you think that's going to continue to be precarious prolonged down well is sending out of the precarious it's extended the kerry is now the the cost of the condo operation as a noun far in excess of what was anticipated originated served more than the budget of the whole united nations operation for the sheer to raise that money is means that doubling in effect the assessment of the alamo the country's if it was apportioned on the same basis and the meanwhile the soviet union has refused to make any contribution to the year congo operation was a disapproval we've now had the unhappy year news that france he's going to withhold any contribution to the congo operation is i think is a most unfortunate development end and they're very shocking one i'm frank to say

relieved problem of raising this these funds from the room of the members of the whole united nations is not easy many of the countries on an extremely hard to meet their recession it's an interview and especially now as they were doubled so there's a feeling i mean there's no it's no there is no doubt that there are some other countries more with a greater capacity to pay like britain united states canada so on will probably have to bear a disproportionate share of this expanse and i don't by any means preclude the possibility that a drone that this can be done i think it can be done i do very much the third victim is a reconsideration on the part of all the members of the united nations who will recognize i'm sure on reflection that if this cargo operation fails for one have adequate financial support that it could be a very serious blow to the more allen to the prestige of the united nations itself thank you very much and now

just one quick question do you think there's anyway we can prevent another situation like the congo rising yes i think i think if i'm in anticipation of the independence of new countries have proper precautions were taken to the circumstance will never be identical know always be somewhat different than a proper precautions were taken and as the british have tried to do in the case of their colonies in africa has indeed the french have tried to do amanda and both of them out quite successfully i think that we can avoid these major disasters it says that is the original that would fit in your introduction to this program i hope that they're going to be able to provide some more information though i realize we cannot in one program provided radio clarification of what is still there a confusing situation i

want to thank you very much mr and they're going to move anyway mrs roosevelt and her guests know continue this discussion of the current situation in the congo and its broader implications for future developments in the un poll representing contracting viewpoints all are patented spokesman jean leonard williams assistant secretary of state for african affairs and former governor of michigan has recently returned from a month long trip to africa his visit to sixteen nation stirred considerable controversy but he had retained the full support and confidence of president kennedy john dau what two crew is chairman of the un congo conciliation commission made up of representatives of eleven african and asian nations a distinguished nigerian he holds the high government posts of minister of economic development and chairman of his country's un delegation

ambassador rice what i all as special representative of secretary doug heller showed in the congo has been the satirist on the dispute is on leave from his regular post as india's high commissioner to pakistan a veteran in the troubled ways of the world body he was a member of the one observation group in lebanon in nineteen fifty eight and before that india's permanent representative to the united nations william fry has been the united nations correspondent the christian science monitor since nineteen fifty he specializes in collective security problems and the united nations charter is author of the united nations peace force and receive the overseas press club award for the best un reporting in nineteen fifty five and that's interesting is giving us his view of the congo situation now with this not

only americans but leaders from other parts of the va work closely involved in this crisis the un mission in congo has been a ceo does criticism from all sides what do you think can be done for the relations between the congo and the united nations and that's the dial but it is important to remember that human operation in the congo is unique in the history of international organization the past says because it isn't in this one which is life in substance the defendants were young and struggling nation naturally just ask as many facets to it and the criticism of which you speak it is limited to one aspect of the stars or the other and sometimes it comes from different quarters so to get on as a political another

minute lot of criticism when the sizzle as contradictory and that i think goes to show to extend the mission has been an awful lot of the gun control of the nations within the one when the united nations well militias are not universally that lately and none of these bad it makes a wooden used a copy within the wonders of the difficulties was i've been on what it looked and there is a basic predicament before the operation which is that in middle english and impartiality it must not intervene in will be influenced most influence the outcome of any and on most of the constitutional is the tendency among the congolese leaders of different factions has been the plane united nations mission to whether the

individual or conflicting interests i hope that this before they can be sure they are better understanding of the ninety nine percent in the fact that the two settlements must come from is people themselves by means of reconciliation negotiation discussion the united nations mission they cannot be used on the victims of its mandate before they went into the red said the whole world the courses is always a difficulty because lynn neary discovered are some very large it's the most natural thing in will think each one thing only have their own particular area so i can understand how the situation has come about but i do think that it's important avenue but your reaction well

my reaction to these i mean just they've become known unknowns of the situation clooney a commission state and the chairman of the african station commissioned aaron i want to say that i've read in a number of things which are so that has set but there is an element which is missing that these you're going with tuition is not only a day an abstract problem nutrient political of the disease you one problem and eleven today saudi political problem you must conceived the human aspect of it me personal relationship there right otherwise it can make headway at the united nations have been invited by the congolese leaders because the agents left them with nothing you just lived their lives off to a drowning

and they wanted to escape from the day they followed the nation but tibetans my own motivations rather than the veterans just problem like a hot cake expected that they will come to them on bended knee rain to him to come and have them and unknown retail managers at all about responsibility but instead on many mistakenly gave the congolese up to the united nation of the safest on the web that my own observation eyes at the center of the nato side and his conception of the mission of the united nations the united nations is being called an independent state take a boycott on the iowa trust division of the united nations that it goes in this heavily on this aspect of it because they instilled i'm going to say that the site was beginning to play and morph out of proportion the united nations and they are

she's not a wall and then for the relationship between the president of the state was recognized internationally the goal is the debonair we like it or not if the goalie is out but it is the one only people lining the sale as their leader we have to say that the basic and views not to judge him a comment on stand there i'm quoting him on the bases as advisers and friends not despise them to that the eu chemically the month the two babies improve the most rousing treat them as few who do not understand himself and it's begun to cooperate so if we put the personal relationship right then will be on the path of reconciliation and then having the hostility was a recognition i saw this mindset miles of them and they're in the memo the republican's vision commission had no big victorian doing the videos at facilities and bob and i think you that attitude is about don't see that go from

authentic torah exercise but a human egg problem that whereas a sympathetic understanding of the problem of gong multiple us is a deposition put on a similar circumstance how long we react to the occasion and we're just our minds of that situation that the beginning of their understanding between united nations that's a very interesting aspect now how does williams you've just come back from a rather long trip and i suppose you don't feel that you had the time to really go in depth into any question of what would be your reaction to the this question well i must say that i think this is about the toughest job in the world to try and take an entirely new organizations such as the united nations plus a don't know one of the most difficult problems when any group of people never have to face and i can go back for just a moment because

i think well we're taking a look at the geography the immense geography of the congo i think one of the other problems is a fight that i hear there's a many time gaps there is a country where at the time they were granted independence they had only twelve university graduate and i had a very small number of secondary school graduate they haven't had any experiences of government except maybe a year or so and as a consequence to be thrown into the middle of the problem i love bringing order and freedom together so that they can work out was a tremendous challenge too and then when they all were unable to accomplish at themselves to bring the united nations which never really had to face a job like this into the picture we have any men's club even the whole world has to sell the problem of freedom and orderly have troubles around the world so when

it comes into the congo we have in most complicated problem and it certainly is true that all of this is a political as well as a military operation sometimes and we read the papers a lot of those just military i think the political aspect is the dominant one because of mr witcher goes set and as a master dial or get out what we're trying to do is promote peace from war order to give the people a chance for a good life and this is the first real problem and i think that we really need as much psychology is we need arms and i think that this can be done i remember sitting down with the president as a vocal are talking about this and certainly if you observe the first to admit that the united nations and some of its aspects of made a great contribution and that they thought that it was possible and to get together and to work together and i think that the on a working out a

relationship here a very difficult warning between those three the united nations both to respect each other and their proper spears is a very difficult one indeed and it is a great test of human relationships but i'm sure the united nations is going to do this and our this is our real hole well i gather i don't know you know more than i do but i gather at that the human side has being rather successfully and envisioned by the united nations personnel that have been carrying out some a piece of those aspects that what they're different phases of what i was there was a fascinating story which we might tell the stage which would illustrate perhaps that the difficulty in admissions as head

not long ago last month in fact in march the a couple of the congolese army approached to united nations officials one from the world meteorological organization was there the study of the weather and said that they must report the following morning till they have a place in the bay would be big they were under arrest well the un people went to the tv interview on authorities and they were whisked out of their military and then the un inquiry as to what the church was against any other seriousness the un and the congolese army explain that the charge against the world meteorological organization expert was that he was planning to steal the climate of the congo and sell it to the enemies of the congo for historian wendy newspapers that down and you see a

situation and not the sins of you muck and then you have a human elements and that was that what you said that you folks have treated the congolese as if they were either levy jewish rabble baby said have you i didn't think that i was going to sleep well you know six years that is what we agreed that the army has been broken up into various parties but they have not been accepted you react in that respect except for me is that it has been a considerable source of

investment to the country which included opens to let them who is called it's in the old south and political asylum a mix of a little different question really isn't a lot of substance how many for instance when they go from what to do well on them also in my own countries or people don't know it but the activity that we get is that and what is that follow the qualities situation is it going to do i think globally is not a law passed an atm for america and he remembers once an acetate what i mention in the news it more danger and village naturally reason wasn't easy but isn't that an operation of the democratic the excellent that's

what we thought there was going to be a stigma cannot compete with said that in our report and that that is then it and the money inside another's because your friend the united nation when foster wallace says the goal is to establish a man's vision with a good bit of let them know and then unfortunately went to the army they engineer at the army to prove that he went up over the weekend and then speaking with the advent of time with that was the priority president dismissed the premise then you know that this was so and that also he mentioned it at least digging in and out of a complicated situation and i know

you brought up on which i think it's in many people's minds what are the problems that of insulating the congo from outside intervention how effective what about those because two this fear of outside intervention which dallas a captain the difficulties including you don't really need this speak out rather claiming in this context whose intervention doing me many of the africans seem to concentrate fully on belgian intervention and no doubt this is one of the sources are difficult but surely there is also they vary great danger of soviet invasion and this to the xo the congo must be insulated also dense that's now one of the principal anxiety about are solely african think the united states i

don't have a press conference and then don't do when i use the expression that there are too many ns thing as a new comedy spy i have to move oil for this intervention by listener bob through the company which they have investment forces in the problems in the big companies that have an interest in their minds now and naturally they is interested in that i'm from south africa from a tiny arab emirate the united kingdom and united states citizens voting go and interesting and that one of the reasons for encouraging utilities to cds to have to see an alien last now we have a phase i think here at the company town not want to do this and the men

that's one of the problems with you david not easy to make there's kind of an image and then you have to buy it i say that i'm an african a member of the operation when you compare as a maverick and steve getting together so man announcing that we want to be branded than wikipedia's we don't like this most recent legislation with the moment that he's been a convention you know sighted people and have used their goals is to bring these people to get to see the problem after league united nations have the problem of trying to record set one person and the un also says will be a concern than trying to move in together then and i

don't think that the soviet union was to comedy as a union even difficulty in the sense that he kept going to go on it goes through the african states then you have you ar mr lee no and then the guys that come down as you pass it is suggesting that gun would wish is to intervene in the congo and has in fact it would would you acknowledge that have intervened when you see and we have in africa you have to pause one says in recent book they're because the route and yellow sea as supporting we're getting different i mention that you're pointing out indicates why we have to work through the united

nations says the online waiting room where intervention invention is showing our workers through the united nations doesn't matter of fact is it possible buyout to impose a decision that there should be no outside intervention is it practical so it is essentially a diplomatic and a political problem member states sponsored and the wonderful citizens on up on the couch just like to say the integration its many forms and one of the difficulties and find a solution to the conflict is the fact that the many countries have adopted their favorite sons of the co chairs even though the eyes many countries in the proportion

worth or their support of the country and others have been the inevitable or four letters well i think again this goes back to the importance of the fact that the united nations has to act in the day and actor ricky nice achieve their rooms because who has that is that you know what the changes are bbc in all sides agree they think that showed that everybody agrees that of the chief of state is aging and that one of the men who has been in the same way that big ticket if you want inspiration to exist and respectful that's why we didn't walk on them and which is the pc constitution of the proceeding the muslims that sense that he is today and you

want to reach and a lot of the movie insists the united nation doesn't make it does that is because of the fascination you can envision he is not that i don't want to run them into the ocean and this is all the parliament there is no use anymore when i spoke to him i said well then you have the right to be president because you because you invested election of a president of the analyses new orleans it is

you see you want to be president it's a very important city i don't know i don't know do you feel any of the alleged harasser the killing un ambassador stevens has spoken on this program that the constitution of the congo is totally inappropriate toto the nature of the country with its diverse tribes and so on that only a federation if not a confederation to do so they went with the appropriate that has been with you have to start where you are something an unknown i think you start with a small off on a month now but i think that they were pointing out as the necessity

of getting together trying to get a consensus getting the people to work out something better i didn't think through i think that the present constitution last ant not they're less than three years after the novel and when we accept it i am besler stevenson was getting at the other day when he talked about the family conference as far as he was concerned as far as the united states is concerned what they decide there is their own personal internal problem but the thing that idea of silent

approval was the fact that the leaders were getting together and we help them get together again and again until i finally come up with some new satisfactory solution but in the meantime isn't it necessary to have the un presence and in a way to keep a piece of wheat we certainly don't want to like that much would say that outside intervention must be under the resolution which delayed us eliminated as much as humanly possible that then the but the un presence to try and keep as peaceful and atmosphere in which to carry out their negotiations is probably very important and so perhaps one should do is to say that this conference going on

and that they do a law and in getting together themselves and deciding how they will change some of the sector and that the un should go wrong with its civilian work as far as it possibly can and in helping people and it's it's military aid should be as strictly as possible purely to keep the peace mrs roosevelt that's very important because in this next step for the conference on a ton about turning it has angered of his anger pointed out that he wanted to have the conference shifted new place where do you sell you a personal security ok you can see that the un is very very important in human i'm accomplishing those concerns the united states from a position of prominence on

i think the united states is committed to the principle of soft determination of the congolese are going to have to work out their own decision we are number one candidate the same way i do think that he has to be and they're either personally that is in these original conferences or throughout reason change isn't he was a very generally assumed to be a core set a communist perhaps less to what you call most impressively can you tell us what it is about to get a degree not solved because we all know when we're fighting for independence said that when he's been in it when the core economies i think that has got to live with anybody one thing i knew that

that's right at the plans that they have no backing from one site in islamabad the city backing from somebody else that those my misery and making their conscience and not to agree with anybody to come in the way of the sun because you've even moscow were two weeks the czechoslovak training school back and then lost levees in the greek doctrine there but they're not quite naked today and maybe writing western his anger is finding that there is taking out from one side or the other is going to hurt him with his people because i think the african people what i've seen of them like to see their leaders stand on their own feet and on our moment to enable the course we see reports now the mystery is and it

isn't a strong in his own area as he used to be and that just that you know quite right in that have any political leader that's it i'm not a living on his own because he got it into an african and we say to see change a few years ago he has utility and when two thousand eight thousand and then the judge of people lost there you got wounded the business that as you see it one

mile and again too early you're welcome steve we support that the us senate there's a lot

of work this vote what other kinds of intervention this is pseudo diplomatic recognition of a lot of these are provincial factions that is unfortunate in the current situation i acted in division us that's at the various when that supple and yellen division it's morning edition or just do a job though you said something about african politics and i think it's true the world war ii so there's one leader as far east asian what if he doesn't there's another leader as power comes and i guess it's a waiter united states so it's on to mit and he

gave that vision changes to overthrow the simple reason that they get is the head of the state is not going to remember alton was immensely is the president of the coalition that adam unintelligible show live in lobbying and in any succeeding at the head of their own pot anything that's that movie in utah you guys ready and a political

questions opens the same in every country but very difficult for other countries to understand and i think he had been well probably the people are more interested in what can be done and for the rapid economic and social development in the congo than almost any other question i think people are really very very anxious about it today i think phillips went to see this operation involves a forgiving the end of it but typically sisters auditioned for the effective use political difficulties of living under the has been has been no effective central government ever since the beginning of their work has been one of the factors which is so don't typically assistance yet the situation is imagination as a menace to keep the country afloat

man the hospital's given to any outbreaks of epidemics and i'm still a great deal of course i intended it was going to keep in his own words when it was a part of this case and the one that hit two hundred thousand persons are the victims who will decide it will oldham says without their homes until patients i'm going to do this myself and he organized a massive relief operation and that the extremely rare but this is not like the republican party and i'm convinced that as soon as something abnormal it was established before the supporting operation and from having the ability

of us involved it's amazing you know with his arms folded it is very much a song that's also drawn from phone companies for the moment without assistance some of them and the system's leaving the light from the soul and country and be speaking up tremendously when you think you'd have to began and talent from the central government don't you think you can do you take it from the different provincial capitals see you know any of the assistance also going on and the eyes of whom work on breakfast and the effect of this is the operation going from possibility

that a lot of reasons that people see you well the united nations forces being a piece i mean of course it is the time of the february twenty first resolution that was authorized to use force if necessary to prevent the congolese from going engaging in civil war this surely expanded their horizons of the force vary significantly and it also expanded their horizons of the united nations in a in a constitutional sense also in that it helped the un develop what could be called a set of teeth of the un for peace force in him now and egypt could perhaps be like and joy child's first seventy the chilly the congo i mean is the child's second set of the day much more prominent and said which is able to build a deal a very important buying it necessary that is i suppose that that would be able to

build a deal an important buying if necessary if we can pay for it he did states if necessary action if necessary as it was as you yourself are critical to function as a civil war which would have been used very much could you also use that forced the army in a forceful question to protect your supply lines that which we have to let you know that when she and

other basic when you lead scientist at the gate well i won't let it back in march make sure that happens i'd like to go by activists i've found because i think there is an interesting a demonstration to fight the united states and says son going through the united nations because of our open heartedness the first thing we would want to do is the fly planes or boats and five the food eh the united

nations ms merman intervention takes a lot of her different and sometimes difficult for i wonder if we can find quite so enjoy him wrong heavenly how much money you suppose the central intelligence agency as part of the congo very decisive makers don't know you or your question implies an acknowledgement that we have done so law in the united states you're right i would go to a policy on the country think we would intervene less than most other countries i wonder

if it's quite honest to you to represent our policy has completely enjoy i'm completely supportive of the united nations must do you feel the united states has always given him complete an unequivocal support when the operation was not a lot of gun nuts to support has mentioned that indigenous support victims names and i'm delighted to two fee of the media weep to cooperate with the united nations and that we've done our cooperation from the united nations and i think this is what richmond should fall of all these occasions yes i am

this week well i think that's a bad thing to say but i mean i would like gas to ask them how you feel and i don't know this about the refusal of some of the patients carry the financial bit but what can we do to to get more people to feel that this is a law the piece to say matt's now about recognizing the obligation every member has us a member of the united nations there is no way in which you can force them to do it like that and thousands of my that was involving a couple of patients who was the mission and the

brothers i mean that was his only fear that you should be on our allies then you don't participate in anything else patrick dig into the pressure of computation and members or do something in the global irish now on sites when we have to thank all of you very much for your participation today you've been most kind of coming and we are deeply appreciative and i would like to say that next time we hope that the audience will join us again as we will be looking at the problem of economic development and our guests will be tested those all talking and dance to lead and horrible wow

wow that's about adley stevenson is the chief american represented the united states assistant secretary of state for african affairs god i want to who were in nigeria everyone appointed an open city bye bye the peak this

week this is an ep national educational television