Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #45; Dr. Amanda Foreman "The Ascent of Woman" & Annie Brown - The Decline of Women Coaches

three welcome to infection conversations with women changing the status quo so i learned today an inflection point where role of women really played in the development of the civilization man created after the ability to have the clout at the enactment of title nine to winning coaches of equal access to sports can feel like that were sort of like a half in half like now we have half women putting intricate have men in women's sports do you have support of the whole women are not putting out of work that they're not pushing happen and for dr amanda foreman in the ascent of woman lets any ground to reveal on the decline i feel uplifted thefts today an inflection point three key and thefts the ascent of woman is a new documentary not to be confused with the assent of man from the bbc in nineteen seventy three or even the

scent of a woman staring out that you know in nineteen eighty two the ascent of woman is a four part series also produced by the bbc and available on netflix it covers ten thousand years of history written and presented by historian journalist and author dr amanda foreman it is the first documentary to present the history of women and the dawn of civilization to the modern day dr forman argues that history that pushes women to the margins really like the one you learn about in school is an untruth there must the challenge to welcome amanda iron ore and what misconceptions were you trying to change with this series the biggest misconception that we wanted chief head down with the idea that women have always been on the margins of history that the migration happened while women we're thinking in the kitchen for the man found perhaps the area with those of the

french the human half of the waiting to be called to the table to sit down with an elf why do these misconceptions exist for maybe two thousand years of writing and scholarship was captioned by at a male and the chief of the math it excluded women from a scholarship from writing from the band at the youth writing and knowledge and the means of self expression and they cornered the history market and they read history from their perspective they're the point that once their wishes we would like the world to be and that viewpoint with specific email and we do feel that this was intentional or somehow they just didn't explore the role of women as they were looking back at history i don't believe that there's a conspiracy and that i don't believe that

it now if all from some kind of a forethought that drive men to systematically and part of the women out at every date any kind of gathering often mentioned that the gathering to come jennifer a fifth anyway that women will generally startle in one of the men would go into one another and i'm aware that many women often will have different concerns and may end up having to tell the end and again that they go at it with an inorganic oh all or even at the evil intent they created and evaporation but it happened and what happened in the cage men in hot iron women the action for women and really that's how i think it went from running a small issue term major issue what my understanding is that even history departments today are very male dominated and that it is very difficult

as a woman to have your voice heard that your writings published has that been your experience or your observation believe what we've highlighted is another aspect of the difficulty we didn't make you receive and find the favor of male academics not because they don't let women because they're hiring practices favor man who have hoang who will take care of the domestic work and have children with him up and take over that whole other aspect of life which then allows them an academic to have a heavy course load and heavy research lead and write some punishment but it's really difficult for women to get another maternity leave in order to do everything that they want to do for their children and their families and also to be an academic and write books and that's what makes it

so difficult for women in academia it against them what has your approach been i understand you've got five kids yeah i have five kids and so i thought about it being an ally a mandate won the math there at nyu and i got pregnant i didn't realize that i would never again bill he did everything i wanted to i have a family and other reading and devote myself too much i can and do right and big if that loan history that i wanted to do and then something had to give and for me that would be fulltime teaching should you continue to pursue your academic career yes absolutely i continued to write and i did i had a fellowship of research fellowship at queen mary university of london that it's mary normal although it happened to me that i have some kind of

academic credentials to give me landing in the academic community but you know it depends what you want the sacrifice and so i tried the web to teach young people in favor of working on my writing will know what this documentary this seems like an opportunity to reach a lot of young people that you might otherwise been teaching are you are you hoping that it will make its way into universities and and schools oh yes i am very very much then it's been so gratifying the biggest reaction that the theory that had been among young people who you would think would have access to that kind of material and the day for example you brought up earlier this question about the male history in episode three we highlighted empress theodora you is the wife of the emperor justinian in constantinople and there's one

history recovered her reign and his reign was in court and about the door and they move during the bickering everyone's going to come over to the man cooper copy of a he hated the dora he couldn't stand there they've had a huge falling out he knew he'd she wouldn't and the beguiled by him he writes the marriott laundry of history against her and that's all we have about her if it incredibly disgusting and vulgar work against her which so how are you able to uncover why her real overall was if he was the only person that had documented her history we have to go at it another way to have to look at other people diary three unpublished work of the post published work and then you have to ask yourself a question for of recovery might say well if the reagan traces of cars are incredibly biased were other traces of her on that and they for example he voted for the

building of the middle of a bit of a now i'm off but it was a church called the little little higher for fear and if it was entirely her project if you want to know something about it at this building which have led to crave written about her around the building caught the epitaph that she can pay for her health and i think he knew that a concussion history schuitema and beef trying to straighten this particular chat i eat you know set the dominican a few memory and i'm walking out and women from memory if not great if i were to tell you right now did you know that it was the woman who invented the literature you you would know what i was talking about if you will how how about possible and yet when front man named writer in history the first person today see that lighting to be more than just a means becoming fact he could also be a means of containing self expression was a woman

caught and had water and he lived in twenty three hundred bc until then nobody ever thought to think about it and we think of it as a vehicle for conveying are in a full professors she find herself and had won that in a party trick i am and had one of the high priest that with you not know what had ever done anything like this before which was correct how your male counterparts responding to the documentary henri are you getting any accusations of sexism no i haven't actually it for thought i've had a really amazingly positive response which is wonderful because in my previous book that i write with about the civil war and what was that thing that was that well in writing about battles and troop movements as well as diplomacy this is really about the ferguson and american diplomacy in the civil war

as one of the breaking into a profit i had the most appalling fan reaction from my male colleagues who would i write on the military side simply because i was a woman and it was important to be frustrating to see my male colleagues say things like well you have a point if he doesn't get all the military aspects right but today she did thing on the human side without a male trait and then they would never give an example that that image of faith in the country with a man thing into a fruitcake and given what they need to defend their profession because if the man cannot live on high how could a woman possibly get anything that had to do with actual heart mickey facts right and it was really an idea that gender women and men generally don't feel that there's you know quote unquote qualified come out either they get into the back of a woman being on a talk show you declared in

the opening episode that you can judge a civilization by the degree to which it's women have agency authority and autonomy what why is it important to look at this is where you just how big the answer to that question and i think that one important thing one with them in the fight of when you're looking at history of it not simply uncovering the past you often questioned the relevant to today that something that will that will highlight incredibly important aspect of our lives and wool shed some light on them and so one of them a simple question today is understanding what are the global challenges and the most important global challenge i mean we have that quality and that none of that the quality is gender equality because it is the fact that only countries where women suffer from legal and racial religious and factual and disability legal disabilities are also within countries where there is an

education deficit of security benefits and an economic benefit and in hand for what do you think needs to happen to help a stack an hour you respect private property and any freedom of expression would have everything there were either women are always infringed upon the human rights of japan in particular women drive of the first day they often been their own property they are forbidden to have an education they offer going to be outsourced became public they have no voice they have no representation we're talking with award winning historian dr amanda foreman the creator of the documentary the ascent of woman produced with the bbc and distributed on netflix

we'll be back right after this welcome back to inflection point conversations where women changing the status quo i'm lauren shuler my guest is historian amanda foreman the creator of the documentary series the ascent of woman produced with the bbc and distributed on netflix we'll use our and the documentary that there was a time way back in eight thousand bc in turkey there was completely egalitarian in terms of its gender and glass but that all changed

can you describe what that looked like and what happened to overturn that situation yes i'm married to think because we have the human race have always been battered by origin and it was believed that within the agriculture itself that fostered inequality and calf and segregation between the jacket and then we'll hear it with the government had a thousand people living in it and i'm really could actually didn't have to be living in mud huts and the council finding talent and when the colleges began feet really different very careful digging they discovered that the boeing state and many women did the same kind of work and the same wear and tear on their body fat the famed and buy if they operated in that famed mayfield i mean for example if you look at the

public on the line they are roughly defines me with a flatiron the fire at the famed different kiefer for understanding segregated and gendered faith identical they are buried in the thing that they weren't differentiate and turned to face with the goods or waive off debate that they were intending to hurt and so the main thing i did that at the dawn of film live nation men and women lived in this egalitarian way for a walk any offer what happened or what happens is that when you have more than one opponent we have to israel whole idea of competition co reported and allocations between them you've got to get a more militarized with it and if the married try the nation more than simply agriculture an accumulation of that lead to a male dominated hierarchy

i'm actually get in mesopotamia which is the cradle of the radiation the fertile crescent in what is now a war torn iraq by her fifteenth costly war against each other electing generals to defend them and then to leave them an attack against neighboring fifty and i'm a general for talking shit and making sense of heredity and generally normality have you know a male hierarchy well when in so far above and it when that happens rather than the men who are also being conquered well i don't believe that biology department bethany the biology definitely at heathrow and it is simply unlikely that your eight or nine months pregnant and they'd be other writing a whole string of area a new enemy and if that's the case then you're going to see a dichotomy in warrington five feet between they have to stay home too rhonda james organize things look after the family look

after that if dave and dave who out there making war but what we mistake in all if it's even if they're the hierarchy based on male violence and a kind of bondage is that can accrue through violent me about the only metric of power that we've ancient civilizations of that weighed too much hope left of interest about is an arrowhead and things made him blonde and not nearly enough on textiles you know quiet but with gang of it the whole economy of you here it was determined by the thing that women made if anything may anything that made china which can be pinpointed that it is and when textile weaving when we talk about trade without the mediterranean picked up on

that with and the women folk when you're trying to put women back into history that is the kind of a few that we wanted to i wanted to show is that it isn't frankly about a baffle it's not simply about war and the thinking about what one mangled two leading an army because that man in that army is actually be nothing without the economic and labor input of the fifty at the levy and that good luck it seems like the military might has been to the detriment of women in spite of all of the contributions that the women are making to the economy do you think that with women taking greater roles in the military today that this narrative could change that the things that we hold sacred to give weight to like the making of the textiles could change yeah i think i'm very much of that we have a completely different world from our ancestors that inborn no longer count for anything actually it rains

many women on an equal playing field actually means nothing about how far you can play something only if something or how far she can run i mean sure there's some advantages to that in a very few situations but that that's why places like africa can be in the prologue some of the child and the nation has that other countries have had to go through it in the courts towards equality because it winning competitor micro businesses and they need to worry about in his usual gender hostility from banks or credit card companies or anything anything like that they can just get a mobile phone and thought trading come home and i'm here in a day and the kind of new of liberty that the internet and the digital age of

antioch her previously martian life committee which women been the big hit and i can't help but wonder at this idea as when our resources and when there is prosperity that there's competition and then when there's competition ultimately there can be differences inequality and when the germans in coffee also a liaison must take it all show and so is this ad aired a m e mail is alongside your bed just the question of capitalism and every person for themselves how does that actually work against the possibilities for equality or does it enhance human beings are fallible and we are a bundle of good and bad native and fun that can be poured out of off and fifteen lived out of us were taught to play nicely with others were told to share with an authentic community feeling into volunteer and they the cuff

them from reach are very close to human nature anyway because humans are social animals which have to be learned behavior so for example we've we no longer the top people on the length off when you punish them or that we did everything the three hundred years ago for sport and nobody got hit in the market where to watch and from local criminals tortured to death and we did you don't anymore are always striving toward a better version of a fellow poet destined to fail we we have laws and then autism is believed is that it's a combination of the law and human nature working together that will help the big east you know a better self improving for five he even though that with it it always the unique challenges action for well let's talk about the book you've got coming out are only

covering when a million years of history have already going i'm going i'm going back five million years ago that what i'm really interested in the origin story for the color phelps and one of the best origin story of it is the idea that it was men to maintain the farm complete funding from the tres says in her hair i'm living in a whole community of i'm tempted to any natural gas union invaded iraq and they've weighed favorite story where at a bunch of harry individuals and they're feeling or individuals or fifty or hundred year in american funding and children play nearby and then the men hairy individuals out there attacking family member and what that got a couple coming up it is the story of well you have men who went out to get me a quarter of the meat content that made our brains it's stronger and clever and bigger

and because they had heat weapons to bring down a scary animal they thought it used to often it with tools that led to scientific thinking and because they had to cooperate and bring down a tunnel to bring them back and that led to the first sense of community and that led to the development of language and treated absolutely everything to do with innovation and all the women it could happen well and that actually is just a story it had no more grounded and five and through an identity and in the story water flooded the community and connectedness in fact is when i'm giving and having children because if the relief of all that camden befriend hormone that the foreign language before that anything for the authentic human connection with

others and ganim of bonding with their children and then mothers and children bonding and grandmothers with again forces and for a corporation might give after a grandmother faith to look after their children we have any species that have a long life after medical with that we have a function continues long after we are filthy actually reproductive education and then the language came from mother and gambling and queuing to their children that that is the first full of communications between mothers and babies is not but not between men book and i shall we share the mammoth tonight they're completely authentic you and they told you were talking about before their combat and they were clever digging tools and thinking they're getting made the all important move out of the ground that would've important thought of fruit in nutrients the waiver for the meeting called on credit for any

meat that was difficult to cheer and i get should know and i need to ask you what was the best advice that he's been given about setting the record straight are the very rich that i was given about having the record straight for history wars conduit to do three iran could be getting angry about how they know your history and madden out at because if you don't know your history from one it's going to write it for you an authentic tell you what they want your history could be we don't know it then you're going to claim that narrative and then that narrative of think it can do is unique what you think your possibilities for the future are few believe that women avoid that impressed and achieve nothing and done nothing for four thousand years when you've got the money a quality all going to be on the back foot you're going to think well gosh i need to persuade the people that i might have been and continues even though billions of my festive never did have anything to

contribute wow nobody's ever in history that you can claim ownership of the healthy uniquely asking for any favors you know you meet him why wouldn't you want to be the effect in fact that you were actually born in fair but somehow through the magic of evolution leave you funny put yourself up after forty of them in your view on the court you are equal nor not inferior in any way and you think if he can show you amanda thank you so much that was amanda foreman historian and creator of the new bbc documentary series available on netflix the ascent of woman coming up after the break we'll talk with reveal investigative reporter annie brown who's covering the decline in female coaches since title nine went into effect yeah

it's b i'm aaron schiller and you're listening to inflection point and unsettling power struggle over women's sports is trending universities across the nation that's according to a recent report from reveal the radio show from the center for investigative reporting and pr x they found that title nine which was

enacted in nineteen seventy two to eliminate gender discrimination from educational institutions may have had some unintended consequences for female coaches as federal money came into colleges and universities the number of women's teams coached by women declined to ninety percent in nineteen seventy three to forty three percent today annie brown reported the story for radio and joins me today to share what she learned welcome any thank you think you're having me let's start with a simple explanation of what the total nine law is yeah so we all kind of have this understanding that headline is synonymous with with athletics but actually in in the language of the law doesn't mention sport at all actually disperse cadets discrimination based on sex in any educational setting on and so that was then sort of applied to sports a few years after the passage of the law you follow a specific story at an iowa falling winning coaches who are affected by the change in the law as a dessert christine cramped who was the athletic director

for all women sports there in the seventies first several decades and what did she tell you about where the situation for women coaches was like before ray christian has amazing woman she is actually scottish and him over to to learn how to be a sports administrator in united states and she said i work as the field hockey coach and at that time and she told me that you know we've in sports were like a club you know that you have to pay out of pocket to bridges appeared in them there orange uniforms he didn't have money to travel she said they slept on the on the gym floor when they would when they would travel and she drove around in her car and so when title nine happened a lot of those those things that are directly related to resources changed in a major way but at that time when women sports were not funded and only win and coached the women's teams so across the country ninety percent of women sports teams at that time were coached by women and what she says is that you know they were being paid so the only people who were interested in doing this were

doing it out of the kindness of their hearts and i was women so what happened when money started coming in now so the money's coming in so the situation before title nine has that women's sports really exist in their own departments across the country most schools have a separate department for women's athletics and math departments is run by a female athletic director and after title nine based they may have to receive a comparable resources demands programs and what happens is that a lot of schools choose to merge those departments to take the women's department and bring it into the men's department and iowa was one of the only places in the country that actual he kept a separate athletic department for the women and and that was run by christine grant in his new athletic departments what happens is a bunch of new teams are made because now women's womens sports have to be comparable timmons so they had a bunch of women's teams and when they do that the male athletic director hired just over and above women he hired man and so we see this massive drop in the percentage of women coaching

women's sports it drops to fifty eight percent in my past decade and this is a national trends and nationally were talking about that i was kind of this exception because iowa kept a separate athletic department for their women and they kept christine grant in charge of athletic department she had control over who was hired for friday's coaching positions who got fired how they were evaluated how the money was you and i was really seen as one of the bastions for gender equality you really cut it under pristine grant they won twenty seven big ten titles and twenty seven years so julie christin graham decided to retire and mls the director came to replace her so at that time wear those athletic departments then combined the now and the now flooded department's when she left a male didn't coming to take over for her basically it has brought the women's athletic department and merged it under the male athletic director and

ankara seems as you know at the time that it was like of course she she thought it was he was two thousand you know it was like we were sort of beyond this this point where they had to really protect the women's teams in the women's coaches and the athletic director at the time a man named bob bowlsby she really believed that he had had the best interest of the women's teams in mind so then what happened because you're you talk about a coach tracy korea's bomb who was the women's field hockey coach she had an incredibly winning team gets sold so it in in two thousand and six a new athletic director took over for bob bowlsby his name is gary barber and that's really when things started to shift and i lie in terms of how many women were coaching women sports under cristina grants winning coast an average of eighty percent of the teens during her tenure on this super high average when it comes to like mutiny look nationally over that same period when looking at like fifty percent forty eight

percent but then when it when this athletic director garry barter took over with in his time there that number dropped down to fifty percent so gary carter has been criticized for for for this reduction in the interview portion of the women's teams coached by women has also been criticized for the recent firing of the field hockey coach two degrees bomb who you're referring to choose a very successful coach and i had four big ten titles in her name had been i had been head coach there for fourteen years and she was fired in the fall of two thousand and fourteen for allegations of being verbally abusive and an internal investigation at the university of iowa actually found that she but she committed no pulse no policy violations but the administration felt like they had to protect their students and decided to fire her and in response an aspiring there is just an upheaval an eye out iowa's campus the whole field hockey team rallied behind tracy signed an open letter to the university saying reinstate our coach alumni showed

up to it to games with signs that said you were embarrassed by gary barbara ann and there's really this sense that something wasn't quite right that people didn't believe that tracy could've could've been verbally abusive in this way and that and that something was amiss here and you actually went out and tried to find asylum to say something that you can form with the allegations that were made against her have a habit that go yeah so it i re sent to succeed her players and i heard back from twenty four of them and really none of the women that i talked to before before we publish the story had anything negative to say about her at all and really just glowing things just that she was the best kush they ever had many of her players have become coaches just inspired by tracy herself on actually after we published one person has come forward and didn't want go on the record but confirmed some of the allegations that she had you know yell that players that she had on the game that they believe that it was possible for for her to have and to have cuts have

called players to bed man and smother the allegations they said they were in therapy in response to her and so we were hoping to church to really get to get a sense of whether these allegations are are true and as a reporter i can't really i can't really say for sure whether or not on trees the trees bomb was abusive to her players i just don't know what i do know that out of twenty four for players and they said that she was and i talked to one of her players and they said that she was so that if it seems like the way that your story unfolds it's tying to secure zones firing back to the emerging of the athletic departments and that the way the vet declared carbon that is being run and i wait and it is not necessarily thinking about who's gonna be the best coach for the women's team and that perhaps they're using these allegations as a way to move people off of their stuff that they don't necessarily want their that that was my takeaway from the stress yes well how did you come to that conclusion of course yeah so trees is actually the safe enough courage to be forced out in six years and this was really seen as

a as a as a major trend at iowa and guided by the critics of the of the administration and so and so part of that they claimed that it that that treaty has made in a lawsuit against the university is that she was fired in retaliation for speaking up for the department that she was sort of known as one of the most vocal female coaches who are critics of the garry barter and i talk to other coaches who are fired who said that year tracy stood up for all of us that there is that you know whenever they had something that they need to bring up that they could that they could go to tracey's you bring it up with the with the administration and the tracey claims that she was fired in retaliation but it wasn't about these abuse claims and you know you have to sort of unpack this big this idea of whether or not a coaches fired for arm her verbal abuse you know one thing that's helpful as it is just thinking about like what if the man was engaging in the same kinds of behaviors which we don't have any actual evidence of trees he doing but let's just say that that's that that although the allegations are true on and a question that that a number of her supporters say is you know what a man

had been fired for those same things and i think that the sense is that men coaches are allowed to be even tougher on their on their players than they win and coaches are but when i look at nationally for this you know i ended up looking for as many as many women as i could find who filed a similar retaliation claim against their university female coaches or or sports administrators have filed similar on complaints and basically what these lawsuits say is that the woman was a vocal critics of the death of the athletic department in terms of gender equality and in response to that to the woman being so vocal the university decides to demote her or to fire her and i actually found thirty eight of these lawsuits across the country on in the last decade and i didn't really go looking for this trend i die i notice as her talking to to these women that a number of them had very similar experiences to tracey that they were accused of being verbally abusive

before they were fired or when they claimed no you retaliated against me that it department said no the real reason you're fired as actually because we think that you were abusive to our players on and so it so actually thirteen of those thirty eight coaches on had allegations of mistreating their players are launched against them somewhere in the process of their firing and so it just it seems like it does is it has either either trending in female coaches being abusive and being fired first for such or a way that that universities can use these these allegations to to remove a coach and retaliation we're talking with investigative reporter annie brown about her latest piece for radio will continue our conversation right after this poop it didn't it

didn't this is inflection point i'm lauren shuler were talking with any brown they reveal journalist investigating the decline of winning coaches and female college sports we're just keeping slightly baffled by is another thing you uncovered which is that when the women judges were replaced by male coaches that there's no glitches got paid more that's right keep getting hung up on that because if you could have really great performance and the son so cynical that could have really great performance and not have to pay top dollar for it why wouldn't you write that you think that there that you know i don't want our rate yeah so the five women who have been forced out of the universe that i'll reflect apartment including tracy two of them have been replaced with man and knows not

have been paid an average of twenty five percent more than their female predecessors and then on further three he replaced with other women and those women were paid thirteen percent less than their predecessors and so you know the university when i asked them this question and they have pointed to the un to the experience of that of the candidate to the un the pure comparison with india the big ten but as a reader it's hard to you know not see that as a significant trend will you un and he spoke directly with gary barber how many times if you have an audience with him just once a month yet so what i find interesting as a listener to your conversations that when you went and it was very jocular hey hey dylan and then as you started asking her questions he's started sounding much more defensive end kind of towing the party line and one of the areas that you went into was what we talked about earlier and that i only have this great record of

women coaches for women's teams and eighty six migrants don't tell and that it's now down to what is basically reflective of the rest of the country sure and his argument was hey we're still seeing great where were like fifty fifty which is i mean even better than the national it has yeah so well what was your take on that and it's trimming i was still in the head of the national and the national average after this after this drop you know it the bats an eye eye eyes johnsons are saying you know when you compare it to the national thank you know i'd say it looks pretty good but when you compare it to how it's been in in previous decades since the department's from earth's after christine pratt retired it doesn't make sense you know i think that that was a thing that we were we were trying to investigate in this in the story in this report was really why has this continue and you know that in nineteen seventy nineteen seventy five nineteen seventy seven these numbers are dropping women coaches are being replaced with man men are getting hired over women make some sense it's like the seventies you know like

this is a like it's still wrong but like it's it's not so surprising would feel surprising is that is that it's still happening today and that that number you know that i am the statistic of of women only coaching forty three percent of women's college sports teams the fact that hasn't budged in the last decade that it's that it stayed right around there on is really what's most baffling arm and i were provides an example of a place where it's it's continuing to go down when it do you think the significance is of just going back to the city and the department sir are now in together enough for deterrents are together and that at some of the school's football and basketball are really the big moneymakers cherish is anything to set for the fact that the same person that's running it those teams is also running the women's teams in all the other sportswriter yen y e n y why the decline came out pages is happening after that major yeah didn't have anything to do with with rattray landing site and speculated

so you know i i can say for sure at all but i think when you when you merge these apartments when they're when they're suddenly in the same in the same department you're right you're sort of you're combining like two very different philosophies within one department you know football makes a ton of money and so it's a business the athletic director is running a business you know they have to hear she has to raise money and get donors and get people to buy season tickets and has to be available as us face of this of this business but they're also they're also in charge of these these teams that don't make any money whose primary objective is to is to be part of the educational experience of being in college to be competitive to learn how to play on a team to learn fairness and hard work and that these things exist in the same department i do think is a challenge and from what i've learned in from who i've talked to about this it's not inherently bad to have these things in the same athletic departments that like after a merger of course everything has fallen apart or something

it's really about having athletics administration that is in full support of the women's sports and in full support of winning coaches what what i'm trying to take away from this is what their implications are for other industry re where we are driving in the tech world re wear it where for forty three eight fifty percent is the goal ray and they're still so far away from reaching that call the hearing that once you get to that level of of them are you know you're emerging of the sexes a few well share that it doesn't necessarily bode well for women re emerging into sacks says as much as it's about merging the merging of these sports with different goals it just happens to be that we as a country care about non sports were really care about women's sports so that its inherent to the to the merging of the sexes but i think that you know when a thing that it's a can feel like that were sort of like a half and half of like now we have half of women coaching women try to have mental human non sports that's only in

women's sports if you look at sports as a whole women are not coaching have sports cars they're not pushing haven't in sports because while while men have had increased in how much the proportion of butter better coaching women sports are the last four decades women have had and have remained only three percent of the coaches on men's teams on so it can get kind of a false sense that things are like great we are smack dab in the middle but that's just on women's teams won't circling back to the impact of title nine all of this unfold do you think that something needs to happen in in the way that the law is written that includes female coaches or uninsured of the lawsuit hit you know at our age where woody's sure that what did you hear or see that you think might read some glimmer of hope for for changing the trajectory back into the the ninety percentile a parade and you know there's not a lot of talk about changing the actual law i think that that's that's so unlikely to happen but one that one of things i did hear

from christine was that actually in the enforcement of title nine on him and says no we found in our doing research that actually the way that a bomb it effected the school is down to be out of compliance with title nine the federal government is supposed to punish them or work with them to make changes but if the school does make the changes that they continue to be out of compliance with title nine the federal government has only two options and to punish them one is to turn over to the justice department and to you used to take away all federal funding on and those are really the two options and actually the federal government couldn't point to a single case where they had done either of those things since the passage of the law and christine granville me she said that was in the state when the law was was written the fact that if you're out of compliance with title mind the only option is to remove all federal funding and that's never been out that they were just effectively shut down the school and an hour the thinking and she said if there could be something like you know some new unfair that you could that you know you could punish the school by

removing some of the funding some of the funding to athletic department until they they got back on track in this retaliation in these this trend of retaliation cases is because of a supreme court decision based on title nine that said even a settlement doesn't apply to colleges directly that if coaches are punished for standing up for tidal when they can file a retaliation lawsuits in the name of title nine they can say that i was trying to stand up for this law to stand up for this gender equality law and i was punished for it and anderson legal recourse there for them and that has been huge that happened that happened in two thousand and five and sends that and that's been you know when we've seen these thirty retaliation lawsuit since then where were coaches have come forward and said it has happened to me this happened to me this happened to me on and that's been one of the biggest changes and how coaches can defend themselves using the law the other thing that's unique about the iowa case is that the players

the the field hockey players under tree secrets bomb this woman who they believe was wrongly fired on they filed a federal title nine complaints on behalf of their coach and this is as far as we can tell is unprecedented in terms of been filing federal complaints nandi have necessarily themselves but on behalf of their coach and they said that that tracey is the equivalent to their most valuable resource so that i don't mind about the equivalent of resources then getting their most valuable resource taken away from them their coach is a violation of title nine they set tracy was fired for things that a male coach would never be fired for and the disease is perhaps a new a new way that coaches can be protected under the law on through it through actually their players and standing up for them well it sounds like this is an ongoing story yet is that something that you'll continue to follow i well yeah for sure i've left my contact with the university and hoped to keep tabs on a

criminal will keep your ears open for el placer land sinks anything threatening me things are having me there was annie brown an investigative reporter for the radio show reveal her latest story is a man's game inside the inequality that plagues women's college sports i'll put a link to it on our website and infection by radio dot org baseball is there a women changing the status quo he's like to hear from players know it is such a radio that's worth and while you're there ain't it to become theatric just like barbara but it's an island rounds his contributions are helping bring the voices and views of powerful women the years everyone and you can't do that infection play radio dot org inflection point is that you have the support of women unlimited in the women's organization

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