OutCasting Off the Clock; Having two moms

Hi, this is Outcasting Off the Clock, and I'm Isha. Today I'm talking with Rose. Hi Rose. Hi Isha. How are you doing today? I'm doing well. And so today we're going to talk about your experience with having two moms. So let's get into it. One was the first time you realized that your family may not look like other families around you. I think I kind of at least knew from a younger age that my family looked a little different because I saw other kids my age who had a mom and a dad, but I think what helped was it felt like a normal thing because my parents also sent me up with play dates of children who had two moms or two dads and it made me feel like, oh, my family is a little different, but it's okay. I'm not the only one and it's pretty cool. I think that's really great that you had exposure to families with other gay parents and felt pretty comfortable and not super insecure about it. Yeah. And it also helped that they would read picture books to me with main characters who I'd have two moms and I felt like they showed a lot of representation in ways like that which really helped me to feel like I was in a normal situation because it was a normal

situation. Yeah. Definitely. I'm pretty surprised when you say that there were children's books that showed gay parents just because I know that even though I'm slightly older, I didn't expect that there would be children's books with gay representation when we were younger. Yes. I think a lot of books were not published from like major publishing companies and they were kind of smaller projects, but they were still very important to me and I think a lot of other kids too. So you mentioned that it was pretty cool having two moms. What do you think is cool about that experience? I think I just felt different and special in school during father's say I would do something for my grandpa or for my uncle and then I would do double the work for mother's say. So I think at that age, you know, having something that sets you apart is kind of a fun thing and I never seems like a bad thing to me. Were there people around you who thought it was a bad thing? I think for the most part when I was younger, the kids my age were always very accepting

and usually at first they would be confused and I would say, oh, I have two moms and they wouldn't really understand it, but I'd explain that they're married and they love each other and things like that and they'd be like, oh, okay, that's cool. But then as I got older into the end of elementary school and middle school, I think kids with parents who are more on the homophobic side started absorbing the opinions of their parents and being able to spit those opinions back out at me. So around that age range is when I started to hear negative things about something that I had only heard positive or neutral things about. Were there any homophobic experiences that stuck out to you? I think there were a couple of main ones. I think the one that I remember the most is in fifth grade when me and another girl were talking about our parents' ages. She just said something that was very out of pocket that was like, at least I don't have two moms and it came out of nowhere and really took me by surprise and then there was another time in elementary school when I was explaining to another girl that I had two moms and she

said, I think that's fine as long as they're not married, which I mean, I personally wasn't hurt by it. It was another thing that was very surprising and I did have to break it to her, but she didn't seem to appreciate that part. Yeah, that really doesn't seem fun. Do you remember having any strong reactions to what they said? I think I remember just being confused. I was also a lot shier when I was younger, so I feel like now if someone said something like that to me, I would have a much bigger response, but at the time I think I was probably very quiet and just like, oh, okay, do you remember maybe having to open up to anyone about these homophobic experiences or did you kind of just keep it to yourself? I did tell my moms about one of the incidents and then some of the others I told them a couple years later. I think I mentioned it to my friends, but I never made a big deal out of it. I just said it in a casual way.

So when you told your moms about these experiences a couple years later, what did they think? They were really mad, especially about the one when the girl was saying, at least my parents aren't gay. They actually called the girl's parents, well, I think they were called by the school first because my teacher got involved when she heard about it and then they talked to the girl's parents for a long time. And it was also weird with them because we know a thing or two about their politics and it just didn't really surprise me that they would be homophobic, but they insisted that their daughter did not know the word gay and it wasn't in her vocabulary. And you know, I heard her say it and she seemed to know what it means. So it was a very odd experience overall. Do you think anything positive came out of that experience? I think it was kind of the first time that I realized, oh, you know, homophobia does exist in my own life. I had heard about it before and heard about it happening in other places and other situations, but I think it was a time for me to realize, oh, this can happen here too. So that's not necessarily a positive thing, but I think it was a learning experience.

So what I'm hearing from what you're saying is that this was a very eye-opening experience. Have there been any other eye-opening experiences in your life that have shown you that homophobia is very real and is in your life? Yes, actually, I think a couple of weeks ago, I was sitting with my friends in our town and two grown men, like we're whispering to each other and calling us the Eftler. And that was kind of something that I had never experienced anything like before. So I did take me by surprise and I think it was also just really weird that two grown men, I think in their 20s or 30s, were saying that, did either you or one of your friends do anything? No, we just kind of looked away and pretended not to not see them because it was a bit of a scary situation like their adults and I think it's sometimes just best to not approach them.

Yeah, no, I think it is good that you guys avoided getting to involved in that situation just because it could have turned really dangerous super fast. Yeah, I think so too. I'm glad it didn't though. So how did that whole interaction make you feel? It made me feel a little nervous just because it was something that happened in my own town and I don't know, it's not like we were wearing a pride flag or anything. So it was strange that they just guessed that or assumed it from the way we dressed or the way we were talking, which also was a little nerve-wracking. Did you end up telling anyone else about this experience? Yes, I told my mom's, actually I think I only told one mom, but I think the other one will find out by listening to this. What did one of your moms have to say? Kind of the same thing I said that it was just really weird. Was there a reason why you maybe didn't tell your other mom? I forgot. I think that's honestly the only reason I was meaning to tell her, but I didn't get

to. Did you open up to anyone else other than your moms about this? I think I told a couple of my friends, actually, not in like a, oh this is what happened way, but I'm more of a V-wear, there are people like that in my town. I'm really sorry that happened to you and I know that you've mentioned that your town is pretty small, so it's just like very alarming, as you said, to know that there are people like that who exist within your small town. Yeah, it definitely made me feel pretty uneasy. So how do you think your reactions to these homophobic incidents have evolved as you've gotten older? I think it's just more of a matter of noticing them. I could easily see myself when I was younger, brushing off one of these incidents and not fully realizing what was happening, but I think now that I'm older, I'm more aware of these things and I can spot them better when they happen. So Rose, in our conversations, you've mentioned that you identify as bisexual. How has having two moms affected your own acceptance of your own sexuality?

I think it just made me realize this is okay, this is normal. They raised me and I think I'm pretty normal and it just made it feel like something that I would always be accepted for and that was the case, which I'm very thankful that I grew up in such a welcoming and accepting environment. I'm so happy to hear that and it's so great to hear that just because as we've heard from our fellow outcasters and even in the media, some people are not as lucky to have accepting families, so I think that's really great. Yeah, I think so too. So Rose, this has been super fun and thanks so much for talking to me. Thanks for having me. I had a lot of fun, too.