Report from Santa Fe; Danice Picraux; Lou Gallegos

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For bachelor's masters and PhD degrees, New Mexico tech is the college you've been looking for, 1-800-428-TECH. I'm Ernie Mills, this is report from Santa Fe, our guest today, Lou Gallegos, the chief of staff for the governor of the state of New Mexico. Lou, this show is long overdue. I should tell my audience that I think you're one of the most underrated people in government. I look on you as being a scholar. You look at yourself as being a scholar? Well, I look at myself as being a historian. Yeah, when we look at it, I'm looking at a legislative session coming up. I assume you are also. And I'd like my audience to know what they should look for to better understand what's going to come down when this session, 60 days session, gets underway January 21st. Well, the first thing that anybody in the audience would want to look at for this coming session is to look back and see what isn't done, or look at what unfinished business we as New Mexicans have.

And we have a lot. We have the item of gambling, forget just Indian gaming, but just gambling in general, and what it means to New Mexico in an ear term in the long term. The issue of corrections, but more importantly, the issue of crime and how it relates to corrections, the connection between prisons and crimes and criminals. When you look at the health status of our citizens in the state of New Mexico, as it relates, is managed to care a good thing, not a good thing. But nonetheless, the legislature has been looking for an answer since 1993. We still don't have an answer. We look at the direction that we're going in terms of education, the recommendations of the Constitutional Revision Commission. Very good people that worked on that thing and made some recommendations. They just shouldn't lie on shelves. We have an awful lot that's on the shelf, don't we?

It's a tremendous amount, and as I say, Ernie, a lot of it, which is what I would call unfinished business. It's things that have been hangin' fire for a lot of years. In 1996, President Clinton said building the bridge to 2000 or to the next century, the next millennium. You can't build a bridge if you haven't set the foundation at the edge of the purposes to start building the bridge. You've got to do that first, and you've got to finish business so that you go on to the next millennium about other things. You know, I've always felt comfortable talking to you because we've known each other for so long. I want to go back to one period. Someone asked me about it when you had worked for Senator Pete Domenici. You had been the Cabinet Secretary for the Department of Human Services under Governor Careathers. You know, you have practical experience in government. When I talk about practical, I talked to the citizens in spring or one time. And they said, at Lou Geiger's came up here, we had a sewer problem, and he didn't just sit down and have coffee with us.

He got down on his hands in these, and it was one of those giant sewer, and looked at it himself. You know, went through that sewer. You really impressed those people. Today, when I talk to you, I know, for example, people will say to me, I don't understand the session because I don't understand the headlines. Headlines is not a way to study these sessions, is it? Not at all, because the headline is written by somebody in the working press. The policy evolution is done in the executive and in the legislative, but somewhere other, those two are intended to meet. Sometimes they run just parallel paths, but they're intended to meet. And so a good student of a legislative session would do well to read or pay attention to the media from the standpoint of understanding me. Are you sitting here and talking about me?

You want me to turn that down, is that blood on you? I can go to the next room and ask them to turn it down. Okay. All right, Portrayalist, if you're rolling our guest, Bob Gallagher, G-A-L-A-G-A-G-I, he is the president of the Mexico Oil and Gas Association. Okay. Let's letter it. Yeah, it'd be a good shout today. Everyone's right. I've got a fill. Okay.

All right, Portrayalist, we're ready. You can roll them. And our guest's name, state representative, Dennis, D-A-N-I-C-E-B-C-R-A-U-X. And for underneath the name, you put down House Majority Leader. Five, four, three, two, one. I'm Ernie Mills. This is report from Santa Fe. Our guest today, the House Majority Leader. And then the Mexico Legislature, state representative, Dennis Beakrow. Welcome. Thank you, Ernie. First, the hard question. In my memory, I've been covering this thing for 42 years up here. I can never remember a woman as Majority Leader. Have you checked it out? Well, we have all those pictures on the wall down by the office of all the leaders and all the whips. And know there's not a single female amongst the leaders. And they haven't put my picture up yet. But there's a black spot, so I think it'll go up soon. Okay. Now, it's an interesting position because I want to spend some time today. We've talked, you know, they've had some great leaders.

And I was remembering one who was a minority leader in the Senate, Republican Joe Mercer. And he told me once he said, when you take on this role, you're no longer just a representative paying all the attention to your own bills. And in a little extra time, there are a lot of extra chores on things. Well, they're not chores. You do have to spend your time differently. And putting on my own personal bills has almost become the second order priority. Now, it's not like it's unimportant. And it's not as though you're really being hurt. Because in the process of becoming a leader, this is my sixth term. And I was the whip before in the caucus chair before that. And I've been on appropriations until this year, you know, for 10 years. You have developed some reputation. And so your bills are not dissected quite as badly, shall I say, as others. If you have a bill that isn't like, the committee will perhaps table it.

But they won't make you sit there interminably. And if your bills are committee, our committee, in-term committee bills, or their bills that have heard before and died, or they take your word for it. So you're not put through perhaps the same scrutiny as a new legislator. But you do have bills that have been heard or ideas that have been building. And that's one of the things that saves you. It's not quite the same. Talking about ideas that have been building at the very outset of this session. You spoke about one of the causes you're interested in. And that's a consumer protection legislation. Can you give us an update on that? Well, you know, I did a Consumer Protection Act my very first year here. And I was treated in a way vastly different than this year. The lobbyists and other representatives on the committee kept coming to me with amendments. We kept putting the amendments on.

And before I even had a final hearing on my bill, I had essentially destroyed my own bill internally. And the committee just said, oh, well, this bill is dead. And I made a little speech and we tabled the bill and that was it. Now this year, I have a Consumer Protection Act. And again, protects privacy, protects your financial privacy. It protects the use of information that is amassed, whether it's by a supermarket, a gas station company, your bank, your credit union, people who hold your credit card, which may or may not be your own personal bank. And it says before you can sell that information. So in such a forum that is personally identifiable to me, ask my permission. Now the federal government has passed the law and regulations have been forthcoming finally after many years. That says they can sell the information unless you tell them not to. So mine is a stronger, it says, you have to say yes, you can.

Now I contend that when you open the account with any of those folks, whether it's the supermarket or the bank, you can sign right then. But maybe people won't sign if they knew that their information, which would be personally identifiable, was going to be sold. And even today, you know, FERS was going into bankruptcy. The information they have about us from that little FERS card where you get your discounts, that is now considered an asset for the purposes. For them, for their bankruptcy, the invitation. Which tells you how valuable this information is and how sellable it is. My bill also says that you have a right to see your credit rating or records. And that's more than just those credit, big credit reporting agencies where we do have the right. But these are other master's of credit, for example at FERS. And to, when there are mistakes, to make corrections. So it is very definitely a strong consumer privacy bill. And I'm being treated politely, but I will say that

various financial institutions and others are very upset by it. They feel that the federal government bill is good enough. It's hardly gone into effect. They believe it will be very costly. And what I'm doing is an extra burden. And my feeling is let's get this out in the open. At least let's start the discussion. So people really know what is going on with their information. Look, Dennis, you can't always, and we notice with any kind of legislation, you can't close all the loopholes. But sometimes it's just getting a start. I can remember there was one of the major credit card companies that used to send out something just the way you mentioned. And they'd say, send us or call us if you don't want this. And if you happen to misplace it, well, you're getting all kinds of materials in the diaries. You know, you keep your date books. And it had to be turned around.

At the time, there was no relief from anyone saying, no, I want it to go the other way. I have to let you know I want it. That's right. And, you know, I would love to see this. I don't believe I'm trying to shut down business or make life very difficult. The business community feels differently. But at least let's discuss this at an open hearing. And I hope that will be quite different than 10 years ago when it was a slam dunk on a freshman. Yeah, a freshman freshman easy to pick on. Yeah. You know that. How's the representatives a couple of weeks ago? You know, this is always a tough time for me because, and for the guests. Because we walk out of this room and they suddenly say, we shut down. You know, we're out of business and you say, now what do we do? But as of the time we're doing this show is about 10 more days left to this legislative session. And as a day we're talking, it was about mid-session that the House decided to get together. They had a press conference and said, we are going to list our major priorities.

Can you run through a couple of the highlights and then? Well, our major number one priority is education. Now, House Bill 81, which is that composite reform legislation, primarily strongly centered in that initiatives and accountability task force. 63 people, great diversity, all political persuasions, vast knowledge and experience in education and in business and all walks of life, that is the centerpiece. And that is holding at the center. It has that three tier level for teachers, a beginning and then a mid-level and then a senior master level. Raising salaries, 30,000, start at the first level, 40,000, start at the second level, 50,000. Requiring professional development and accountability standards for teachers, requiring mentorship for new teachers. And if teaching ends up not to be for them, they can leave very graciously. Before they've invested too much in a teaching profession.

You know, I talked to I.B. Hugh Hoover, who served as one of the co-chairs. I did with 64 members, did I drop them? Was it 64? Well, maybe you caught me. But he was a co-chair of that. And as he said to me, he said, you've known me. He was president of the Albuquerque Chamber. That's one of the groups that wanted to have their own bill, along with I guess it's a New Mexico think, another think tank, so to speak. But Hoover told me, he said, you know, he said that committee worked 18 months on the piece of legislation. He said, that still is the foundation for this bill. The other thing I would expect ordinarily to have the education unions, extremely critical. But when I talked to Mary Lou Cameron, she said only twice during that period that they have to actually vote on something. All of the rest of it was compromised they all agreed to.

That's an awful lot of work over that period of time. And both unions have said, we think this is a good measure and a step in the right direction. That's right. They are for a strong teaching staff. They are for parent involvement. And this includes parental advisory councils at the schools. They are for a supportive state department of education. And the state department will be regionalized in four or five regions to help the schools of their area. So the help is sort of area specific, not only that school, but you know what it's like, what that culture is like, what that population is like, what those needs are. And those ideas did come out of the think New Mexico and the Albuquerque Chamber. It is a tremendous amount of work, no one likes everything. But everyone did have the sense, we must attract and retain excellent teachers. We must have principals who know what they're doing and can take charge of their school. We must have the parents involved.

And we must pay these teachers to attract them, to retain them, and then professional development. And you use that and sort of have a career ladder that teachers can become master teachers. And they can then mentor the younger teachers and have a commensurate pay. This year, once again, I took an active part in the Read Across America program. And sometimes it gets very sad. You know, the teachers have said, we don't want to yank out at Dr. Seuss book once a year and read it and figure we've read. But from people like yourself, you know that it doesn't, you don't have to read to a child four hours a day. So you can five minutes a day over 365 days accomplishes something. You know, it's a mentoring process with them, isn't it? It's a mentoring process, and then here you read. But most importantly, you'll see that that child sitting in the corner reading, even if they're just making up the dialogue of what the picture is saying, eventually then it becomes reading the words and using language. And using language to describe, using language to build, using language to create.

And that's what literacy is. It isn't really reading so that you can say the words. It's understanding and then using language. You know, they appear, for example, in Santa Fe. The program for this year was built around the Big Brothers Big Sisters program. And they had people there who have worked with some of these youngsters for two years, three years. You know, they get very closely bonded. I got a letter from the head of the Big Sisters Big Brothers program. And he said, we have 100 young people who are looking for a Big Brother, a Big Sister. That said, I wish more of the people that are trying to intrude into education would spend a little more time connecting with the students themselves, the readers to be. That's right. Well, it's a true, true commitment. It's your time and your energy. You must create your own schedule to meet with a child. And then it flows. And it means so much to those kids. But it means a great deal to the Big Brother and Big Sister. It changes their lives, too.

Now, we're at the great point in the session. I always, after all these years, you know, I've come in here and I can talk to you early in the session and say, I've seen everything. Yeah. And you know, every year they got little surprises for us. I'd like to go through the mechanics a bit of the house past the Big House Bill, too. And they, which in effect is the appropriations bill for state government and education, which is the real purpose of the session. Cut it over. And as Bruce came with, say, in Yemen fashion to the Senate, the Senate just yesterday, which is about with 11 days left to go, they acted upon their version of the bill. Now, we're at the compromise period. And legislation is a question of compromise, isn't it? Well, it is. You can define compromise different ways. Does each side add all they want? Or do you set parameters? Do you say this is how much we'll spend? This is how much we'll keep in reserves or our savings account. In other words,

if we don't get the revenues we expect next year or different demands are made and we have to fill them. So this is how much we'll spend. This is how much is kept in our reserve savings. And then how much or what percent goes for education? What percent goes to run state government? What percent goes for higher education? And once you pick those larger numbers, then you can muck it around in the smaller programmatic areas, but you have to get agreement on those larger numbers. So if compromise is first getting agreement on the larger numbers and then seeing how you'll split the money, that's very much a give and take. You don't get everything you want. If there's a sense that compromise means I put in this and you put in that and we come out with a budget that's perhaps too big, that's enough for what's going to go. This governor won't accept it and it isn't necessarily good budget making. You know, he had asked for $75 million in personal income tax cuts. I had a feeling early on that he might go along if they took 36% over a two-year period.

But this is still until he gets the bill. It's still on the table and he does have. Some people say fortunately or others, unfortunately, he has the last vote with that veto power. Of course, the veto of one, but the Senate did put in the income tax cut. It'll go in in two years, 36 million this year and the rest next year. On income tax and it does hit the highest level. The House left enough money in the budget to have an income tax cut or a gross receipts tax cut or some of both. And we left that to still be negotiated. So the Senate actually made a decision to do an income tax cut over two years. And the House was considering, and remember, we were earlier on in the session, what to do about gross receipts tax for the doctors, what to do about prescription drugs for senior citizens or for anyone. Do we want to make a mix of gross receipts tax? Do we want to increase liquor, the low incomes tax rebate?

So the lower income folks get a break. Do we want to structure it so that the middle class gets a fair income tax break, as well as the most well-off, at least in this first year and in the second year or a third year, do we want to finish it off? So how do we want to structure it? And we left that open. We were doing it earlier in the season. They made a decision. Well, the procedure is once the Senate said, we go along with this, at least the majority of the senators, or even in a coalition group, which we don't often like to talk about, but they say, we'll buy into this. Then they put it back into a, they actually, the first step, to ask the House whether they will concede with the changes that the Senate wanted to make. I've never seen that happen. But instead of just refusing to, we heard it on the floor today, or we received the Senate bill today, we sent it to appropriations, so that they can look it over and then we'll make a decision.

You have a little, you have a little time. That gives us a breathing space, yeah. And then of course they appoint, if they don't agree, they put together a compromised committee from the House and the Senate, and that's always an exciting, an exciting period. On a question that we've been watching closely for almost four years now, the lottery success scholarships. They were interesting, because here is an example of the legislature doing something that works so well, that it stands to even, you know, get into the hole, but that's what it started for, to get youngsters into school. And the, the legislature is not going to let this down, I think. Oh no, but it is changing. We have a bill, there were some bills to make it 100% for scholarships and zero for capital outlay, which is, or critical capital outlay for the schools. There was another bill to send 50% to the lottery scholarship and 50% to technology for the schools. And we made a compromise and it's very interesting. We're still different people are reading that bill differently.

What some of us are saying is that sends 50% to the lottery scholarship that holds 10% in reserve in the lottery scholarship fund in case it's needed. And 40% goes to technology for the schools. Other people are saying it's 100% to the lottery scholarship or 90% in 10% in reserve. So we're going to have to look at that bill because we're in disagreement of what the bill says. The scholarships will hold. There will come in time when there won't be enough money because there's not enough lottery tickets, even if it's at 100%. Because we really are graduating our students and encouraging them to go to college and they're going. We know the interesting thing there in one area where I thought the legislature might be overlooking. I think the first, the first lottery scholarship class is getting out this year. And I said, the one thing I never hear them talk about is those youngsters are not facing their personal income tax on a $5.50 job, $5.50 cents an hour job. They're going to be paying taxes on $15.20 an hour. And the state still hasn't, I think, factored that into the returns to the state.

They, it keeps them from getting involved and issue like drugs and problems of that nature. So we haven't even capitalized on that yet. We haven't. And over 50, I forgot the exact number, but a majority of the students who accepted lottery scholarships are graduating. And they're graduating in pretty short order for five years. They're not letting a drag on. And so, and the lottery only holds, it holds for eight semesters. Your first semester, you don't get lottery. You have to get your grade point ratio. And it used to be two five. And it still is at law, 2.5. Although I understand you and I'm increased it for itself to 3.0. But you're, so your first semester, you can get a scholarship, but they're called bridge scholarships. The schools provide that. And they had scholarship money anyway. That's right. And I thought they acted very responsibly with that saying, no, we're not going to give that money away. That's right. Let's make a bridge for it. That's right. And then you can get eight semesters of the lottery. And students are graduating.

Four, four and a half years, they're graduating. And that is really good because our students only 42, 43% were graduating in less than six years before the lottery scholarship came in. So we really have encouraged students to come to school, to study, and to graduate on time. And they will be getting better jobs. Now, we can't leave this. Is this economic development? That's one of our goals, you know. So the governor, we have a, I don't want to leave this without some of the politics. And an interesting thing happened. I talked to someone. I've known Ben Luhan for a long time. And when he took over the speaker's role, some said, you know, this guy could be a patsy. And I said, no, you don't know him. He'll do anything he can to negotiate. That's right. But if you really push him the wrong way, he's like a sum of wrestler. His toes, you know, they dig into the ground. And I said, you're going to see that he's not easy that way. So watch the way you deal with him.

But an interesting thing happened this week when, as I referred to it, there was a press conference in the Rotunda. And Tony and I was an old dear friend of mine. Tony was lobbying now for the drug legalization program. And he's lined up with John Dendo, who was also doing it. And it was not a very bad conference. But later, John apparently issued a release in which he referred to the speaker as a thug. And I was not surprised to see the number of Democrats lined up behind the speakers. But almost one half of the Republicans said he doesn't speak for us. I got a feeling that this help is going to help the compromises needed between now and the end of this session. I think it's a tribute to speaker Luhan, how he has brought this house around. Well, there was all that wondering, a new speaker, a new leader, a new whip on the Democratic side.

How are they going to pull it off? What's going to happen with this new style, with these new people? And it is a tribute to him that very quietly, he was able to talk with people, keep the rules, keep the business flowing, treat people fairly from their point of view. And people realized he was new. He wasn't challenged at first with rules or disorder of any sort. And I think he has developed a tremendous well of respect. He is thoughtful. People want to talk to him. He treats them fairly. That doesn't mean everyone gets their bills. That doesn't mean the Republicans may not be happy with the budget we come out with. But no one is going to feel they were shut out or weren't heard. Now, he knows his value system. He says it plainly. He says it cleanly. And you know where he's coming from. One of a lady I've always tried to be a favorite because she's quite outspoken. A Republican representative, early in Roberts.

And she made a crystal clear. The gentle John Dendor did not speak for her. That's right. And she lined up solidly behind the speaker. And they're almost philosophically miles apart. That doesn't matter in this case. It's that personal relationship, that working relationship. How you feel you're treated and how he really does treat people. And that's what's coming through right now. One of the areas I think is most neglected in the legislative process is the importance for lobbyists and special interest groups to work year round. And not just during the session. I talked to one reporter who was saying early on the session that it's difficult to get a hearing with your legislator. He said there are 1,800 bills plus up here. And if everyone representing just one side of it, that's 3,600. And if you throw in the Cavalryot laid those. A lawmaker could be talking to 6,000 people. But they don't like to be surprised. But they can accomplish so much if they try to educate on the interim period.

Let's see these fellows on their home base. I think also some folks who are nonaligned with interest groups or with public interest groups and haven't had the experience don't realize that our hours aren't really set. Because you don't know how long the session is going or a committee meeting. And there is a time when you just have to wait. But every legislator will see his constituents or volunteer lobbyists or regular lobbyists as best they can. And they usually will take constituents first. Because the professional lobbyists are here. And we'll take constituents and volunteers as best we can. And the doors are not closed. And I think that's really a mistake to think they are. I go back to the period we were talking the other day when the legislator was in the other building, the pretend building. And in those days there were no offices. So you didn't catch that man coming out the floor. You know, you're a dead meat. He's coming. He's gone. But we also, in my memory, the sessions never started as early. There weren't as many committees.

The problems were not as great as they are now. And I think again, I don't know what is the media to blame or the lawmakers themselves. That they don't stop and say, wait a minute. I started my day at 730 and finished up. You know, I know last night, I guess the Senate worked until almost midnight. That's right. But they don't stop and say that. And as far as the health goes, they're sitting down there eating pizza on the floor. We don't get that message out. No, we don't get the message out. But democracy is everyone having a voice and everyone speaking. And that takes time. That just takes time. And you're supposed to be on the floor. But as I said, and you are right, we have our secretaries now. We can take messages. We can call back. And we will see people. Those office doors are open. They really are. Now, some people will question me and they'll say, how did they select her as majority leader? You asked for it. Did you random? Well, I ran. And I had opposition in our caucus votes.

So it's the Democrats vote for the Democratic leadership, Republicans for the Republican leadership. And it's an election in your own caucus. So I put my name out there as a nominee. And I did have an opponent. And we voted. You asked for it. That's right. Are you glad you took on this, Robert? Oh, I am. I am. It's very different. Not totally what I expected. I had to grow into it. And I'm still growing into it. But I'm having a wonderful time. I think I speak for my caucus. Usually it's on the floor at a microphone on bills. But I believe I speak for the caucus. I try to help keep the caucus together. We air issues that we disagree on. We don't take caucus votes that says everybody has to vote a certain way. It's a really Democratic caucus. I'm Ernie Mills. We like to thank our guests today. The House, majority leader, Dennis. How sweet that I did. Let me get a three, two, one. Do you just do your cannon?

No. You know what I was thinking? You got to do the whole thing without sneezing. Wait. Yeah. I often hear your name mispronounce. So would you be your own voice just for us? This is not going to say your name the way you say it. Dennis Peacrow. Peacrow. And so the mnemonic device would be like Janus, but with a D. And all the people who say, Died me. Oh. Right. Right. That's why. Thank you very much. And this will be, you will not even notice this as we do. And you can pick up her smile now. Yeah. What was that? Yeah. I'm going to go to you. It doesn't make me nervous. We'd like to thank our guests. That'll cut to her. All right. This is picking up on the clothes. Three, two, one. I'm Ernie Mills. I'd like to thank you for being with us. And reporting. I'm going to cut that again. Three, two, one. I'm Ernie Mills. And we'd like to thank our guest, Dennis Peacrow, who is the house majority leader for being with us and report from Santa Fe.

Okay. That's why you want to do it again? No. Yeah, that was fine. Do you want it? I mean, you saw the picture. Do you want to do it again? I do it again when we three think the audience are being here too. So this is Ernie Mills. We'd like to thank our fabulous guest, Dennis Peacrow. And you know this was all the practice run. Oh. Yeah. Three. I'll change suits next time. Three, two, one. I'm Ernie Mills. And we'd like to thank our guest, the house majority leader, state representative, Dennis Peacrow, for being with us and thank you, for being with us on report from Santa Fe. Great. That gets me time to get her smile and come back to you for the rest of that sense. So that's it. That's the practice. Wonderful. Thank you. Tom Ketron County in the northeast part of the state as well. So we really hit close to about 25% of the total counties and geographically all over the state. Do you find that as you talk to these little counties

that makes your job easier? Oh. Absolutely. The small counties, the rural counties, truly understand and appreciate the industry and have accepted it and know it's a part of their life. I'm Ernie Mills. I'd like to thank our guest today and he's a good man, Bill Gallagher. Sir. It's Bob Gallagher. Yeah, that's all right. And it's my fault I didn't restart this again. But just do, you know, I'm Ernie Mills. I'd like to thank our guest, Bob Gallagher, Gallagher, with the Oil and Gas Association in Manuel. So just give me a little 3-2-1. You have 3-2-1? Uh-huh. Okay. And you'd be smiling when I cut over to you. Okay. All right. Just leave that. We're just going to now just do the clothes. Okay. 3-2-1. I'm Ernie Mills, but I'd like to thank our guest today, Bob Gallagher, who is the president of the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association,

complex issues right now looking off the good for the state, the state trying to make adjustments saying what goes up may come down. But this is the two good years that you can really, really enjoy. Could you go as far as three years if you're looking at it? That would be a stretch, Ernie. We've seen how volatile the industry is. Our industry really got hurt a year or two ago, and still hasn't fully recovered. I think three years out is a little far. I'd feel more comfortable staying with the two years. Stay with two years, two good years from the Mexico where we're looking at probably a total of about $800 million for a fiscal year 2001 and 2002. It's a complicated issue, Bob, and a lot of it is out of our control. But you're going to be active during this legislative session, and we'll stay close to you through the whole session. I want to thank you for being with us on report from Santa Fe.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you. Good morning.

Today we're standing at a Playa Lake in the Las Vegas National Wildlife Refuge and we're going to learn about this unique aquatic habitat. Today's whole broadcast is going to be about some different unique aquatic habitats that are here in New Mexico. We're going to start off with a Playa Lake. We're going to look at some hot springs and learn how to use those bacteria and yeast and mold samplers that you have in your research kit. We're going to learn how to use National Park, learn about cavern ecosystems and how to do sweep netting to collect terrestrial insects. We're going to take a couple of long ranges around the riparian zone according to the amount of water that's around that running water system and we have the same kind of effect that goes on outside of a standing water situation. Today we are going to talk to Cathy Wood who is the Playa Lakes Joint Venture Coordinator for the U.S.-Fish & Wildlife Service.

So why don't you tell us a little bit about what a plyo lake is to begin with? Sure. Behind us we have a plyo lake. This one, as you said, is within the Las Vegas National Wildlife Refuge. This plyo lake is probably has water in it mostly year round. And the way you can tell that is by the types of plants that grow around the plyo lake. The plyo lakes are clay-lined shallow basins that occur in range land and plains areas such as we're standing in here. Okay, so it's someplace that's just kind of a depression in the surrounding countryside. How do those depressions get there? Well, depressions probably started many, many years ago. And as water accumulated in these depressions, Tim, there's a clay that kind of washes in and it forms a liner. And it continues to hold water and the depression continues to get larger and larger as the water settles in.

Drops that clay out. And then in the spring time when we get our spring winds, which were famous for in New Mexico.