New Mexico in Focus; 818; Veterans Day Special: USERRA and Artist Michael Naranjo

1 PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO InFOCUS IS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> IN WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS ... A LEGAL CASE PITS THE STATE AGAINST VETERANS. >> THIS IS A CASE, FLOYD, THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS NOT JUST FOR SERGEANT RAMIREZ OR EVEN JUST NEW MEXICO VETERANS, BUT HAS NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS. >> AND WE EXAMINE THE REPUBLICAN ASCENSION IN THE STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> THIS WEEK, THE LINE OPINION PANEL LOOKS AT THE NEW MEXICO SPACEPORT FOLLOWING THE RECENT CRASH OF THE VIRGIN GALACTIC'S SPACESHIP TWO IN THE MOHAVE DESERT. WITH SPACE TOURISM FLIGHTS ONCE MORE DELAYED, THE ACCIDENT HIGHLIGHTS A BIG PROBLEM AT THE SPACEPORT - TOO MUCH RELIANCE ON ONE TENANT. ANOTHER NEW MEXICO COUNTY IS JUMPING INTO THE FRAY OVER OIL AND GAS DRILLING. SAN MIGUEL COUNTY VOTED THIS WEEK TO IMPOSE SOME OF THE STRICTEST REQUIREMENTS IN THE COUNTRY ON OIL AND GAS

DRILLING. THIS TAKES PLACE AS A FEDERAL JUDGE CONSIDERS THE FUTURE OF AN OIL AND GAS DRILLING BAN IN NEIGHBORING MORA COUNTY. AND IN THIS VETERANS DAY WEEK, PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK SITS DOWN WITH THE 2 SANTA FE ARTIST AND VIETNAM VETERAN MICHAEL NARANJO. HE WAS RECENTLY HONORED IN CONNECTION WITH A NEW AMERICAN VETERANS DISABLED FOR LIFE MEMORIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND PRODUCER FLOYD VASQUEZ LOOKS AT A LEGAL BATTLE OVER VETERANS RIGHTS THAT COULD END UP AT THE SUPREME COURT. BUT FIRST, THE REPUBLICAN ASCENSION IN THE STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IS CHANGING THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE HERE IN NEW MEXICO. HERE'S THE LINE. >> REPUBLICAN PARTY TRIUMPH, OR DEMOCRATIC PARTY DEBACLE? HOWEVER YOU SLICE IT, IT'S A GAME CHANGER. NOT SINCE CONTROLLED THE NEW MEXICO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. NOW, HERE TO DISCUSS THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP AND PROSPECTS FOR THE UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION, AND OTHER NEWS OF THE WEEK, IS LINE REGULAR AND PR MAVEN TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP. WELCOME BACK ROB NIKOLEWSKI, VETERAN JOURNALIST NOW WITH THE NEW MEXICO WATCHDOG. SHE'S CO-PUBLISHER OF DukeCityFix.com AND AN ATTORNEY, WELCOME BACK

SOPHIE MARTIN. AND WE'RE GLAD TO SEE INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR FOR THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN. TOM, REPRESENTATIVE DON TRIPP OF SOCORRO IS POISED TO BE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, AND THE GOP CAUCUS ELECTED NATE GENTRY TO BE THE NEW 3 MAJORITY LEADER. LET'S START WITH MR. TRIPP. THERE WAS NO LOSS OF LOVE FOR MR. TRIPP. IT SEEMED FAIRLY UNANIMOUS AT THE CAUCUS MEETING. YOUR SENSE OF HIM IN THIS NEW POSITION. >> I THINK THAT IF EVERYTHING PLAYS OUT I THINK IT WILL BE GOOD FOR NEW MEXICO, GOOD FOR THE HOUSE. HE'S A LEADER WHO HAS ENDORSEMENTS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE THROUGH A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, SOMEBODY WHO HAS RESPECT FROM BOTH SIDES. HE'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKED BY ALL SIDES, AND PROBABLY THE BEHIND-THE-SCENES DECISION THAT A LOT OF FOLKS ARE STILL CURIOUS ABOUT IS WHERE EVERYBODY'S OFFICE IS, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO BE. RIGHT? I MEAN, I SAY THAT TONGUE IN CHECK. >> IMPORTANT STUFF. >> YEAH. BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE ARE 15 COMMITTEES, CHAIRS AND VICE CHAIRS. SO IT'S A VERY BIG MOVE. AND I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW THAT,

YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BIPARTISANSHIP WHEN THEY WERE IN THE MINORITY, LET'S SEE HOW MUCH THAT BIPARTISANSHIP PLAYS OUT NOW THAT THEY ARE THE MAJORITY. >> INTERESTING. INEZ, HIS STYLE -- EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN STYLE, CERTAINLY, BUT YOU CAN'T BE 4 THE SAME PERSON AS A REP AS YOU ARE WHEN YOU'RE LEADING PEOPLE, AND FINDING THOSE LITTLE ATTRIBUTES OF LEADERSHIP ARE ALWAYS KIND OF TRICKY. WHAT DO YOU SEE IN DON TRIPP THAT WILL MAKE FOR HIS LEADERSHIP ABILITIES ON THE FLOOR NOW? >> I THINK THAT HE'S VERY WELL RESPECTED AND PEOPLE KNOW THAT HE KEEPS HIS WORD. AND I REALLY BELIEVE THAT WHEN YOU'RE ASKING PEOPLE FOR THEIR VOTES AND TO SUPPORT PARTICULAR POSITIONS, OR TO GET BEHIND THE GOVERNOR'S BILL, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEAL HONESTLY WITH THEM, AND HE'S GOT A GREAT REPUTATION FOR THAT. >> THERE'S GOING TO BE PRESSURE, ROB NIKOLEWSKI, THINKING ABOUT WHAT TOM JUST SAID, THE 15 CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR SEATS, I CAN IMAGINE THE LINE DOWN THE HALL. EVERYONE IS COZYING UP NOW; DON, WEREN'T WE BUDDIES? THESE ARE NOT EASY DECISIONS, THOUGH. THEY'RE VERY STRATEGIC, AREN'T THEY? AND SOMETIMES THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM OTHER PARTS

OF THE WORLD TO MAKE CERTAIN CHOICES. HE'S GOT A TOUGH THING AHEAD OF HIM. >> THERE ARE A LOT OF STRATEGY BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOW TAKEN OVER THE HOUSE, WHICH SURPRISED A LOT OF PEOPLE -- 5 I WAS VERY SURPRISED NOT JUST THAT WE SAW A 37-33 COMPLETE REVERSAL, THE OTHER THING THAT SURPRISED ME WAS THAT I HAD TOTALLY EXPECTED A LOT OF RAZOR CLOSE RACES. BUT NONE OF THEM -- NO LEGISLATIVE RACES WENT TO AN AUTOMATIC RECOUNT, WHICH REALLY SURPRISED ME. THERE IS AN AUTOMATIC RECOUNT IN THE LAND COMMISSIONER'S RACE, BUT NOTHING ELSE ACROSS THE STATE. THAT REALLY SURPRISED ME. BUT I THINK THAT WHAT REPUBLICANS NEED TO WRAP THEIR ARMS AROUND IS NOW SUDDENLY YOU'RE THE DOG THAT CAUGHT THE CAR. YOU KNOW, AFTER 62 YEARS, NOW YOU'RE IN CONTROL. BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT SOON-TO-BE SPEAKER TRIPP WAS, WHEN I TALKED TO HIM THE OTHER DAY WHEN HE BASICALLY GOT ANOINTED

AS THE NEW SPEAKER, HE DIDN'T SAY -- WHEN I ASKED HIM WHAT DO WE EXPECT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE NEW REPUBLICAN HOUSE, HE DIDN'T SAY SOMETHING LIKE, WELL, NOW WE'RE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT, AND NOW AFTER 62 YEARS, YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO GET SOME OF OUR MEDICINE. INSTEAD HE SAID, I LIKE TO BE TREATED -- I LIKE TO TREAT PEOPLE THE WAY I LIKE TO BE TREATED. SO THAT'S A BIT OF AN OLIVE BRANCH OUT THERE. BUT JUST LIKE TOM SAID, I MEAN, THE KUMBAYA MOMENTS WILL COME TO AN END I'D SAY BY THE MIDDLE OF THE 60-DAY SESSION. 6 BUT AT LEAST I THINK THE RIGHT TONE HAS BEEN SET. >> SURE. OR AS ROB MENTIONED, SOPHIE MARTIN, THE FIRST TIME SOMEBODY LAYS DOWN A BILL FOR SOMETHING LIKE DRIVER'S LICENSES, THEN IT'S ON. >> YES, AND WE EXPECT THAT VERY SOON. I WILL SAY TO AN EARLIER QUESTION THAT INDICATE THAT HE HAD HIS LEADERSHIP IN MIND, THAT THERE WAS SORT OF BROAD CONSENSUS AS TO WHO WOULD TAKE WHICH CHAIRMANSHIP. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE PARTIES MOVED VERY QUICKLY TO FIGURE OUT HOW IT WANTS TO STRUCTURE

A LEADERSHIP WITHIN THE HOUSE. >> LET ME JUMP IN ON YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE GIVEN ME AN OPPORTUNITY HERE. LET ME CLICK DOWN A LEVEL TO NATE GENTRY. IT'S INTERESTING, HE DID A LOT OF WORK DURING THIS CAMPAIGN, DID A LOT OF WORK TO WIN SOME PEOPLE SOME SEATS, A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT HE HAD A SHOT TO WHERE MR. TRIPP ENDED UP. BUT INSTEAD, HE'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING ELSE ALL TOGETHER. WHERE DOES HE COME OUT IN THIS? >> I THINK HE COMES OUT WELL. I THINK HE'S HANDLED IT WELL. AT LEAST IN THE PUBLIC EYE, THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY ANGRY GLARES OR -- YOU KNOW, HE'S LOOKING RIGHT NOW LIKE A TEAM PLAYER, AND I THINK THAT THAT WILL STAND HIM IN GOOD STEAD GOING FORWARD. 7 >> SURE. LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE BILLS I REFERENCED, TOM GARRITY. DRIVER'S LICENSES. THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE THAT HAVE COME BACK TO LIFE, CERTAINLY. THE FEELING AT THIS TABLE ON ELECTION NIGHT IS, IF THIS CAME TO PASS, THERE ARE CERTAINLY A LOT OF CONSERVATIVES, MEANING DEMOCRATS, WHO CAN HELP OUT THE SITUATION. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? THE MATH IS GOING TO GET INTERESTING HERE WITH SOME OF THESE. >> WELL, IT IS, AND I WILL DIFFER

FROM ROB -- I HOPE THAT THE BIPARTISANSHIP AND THE KUMBAYA MOMENTS WILL LAST THROUGH THE 30-DAY MARK OF THE 60-DAY SESSION. I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO LAST QUITE SO LONG BECAUSE OF BILLS LIKE VOTER ID, DRIVER'S LICENSES, AND NOW RIGHT TO WORK, WHICH WAS ONE OF THOSE BIPARTISAN BILLS, YOU KNOW, LET'S CARVE OUT THE GOVERNMENT UNIONS, NOW I THINK WE'LL SEE RIGHT TO WORK FOR EVERYBODY. IT'S GOING TO IMPACT. >> AND 3rd GRADE RETENTION IS GOING TO COME BACK. >> RIGHT, 3rd GRADE RETENTION. SO IT'S LIKE A GREATEST HITS ALBUM, AND IT'S GOING TO BE COMING BACK. THE DEMOCRATS POST-ELECTION HAVE BEEN SAYING, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO RELY ON THE SENATE TO STOP A LOT OF THESE BILLS. WELL, THEY'VE ALWAYS RELIED 8 ON THE SENATE TO STOP THE BILLS, BUT THAT WAS JUST PART OF THE NATURE OF THE WAY THE HOUSE WAS SET UP. SO ASSUMING THAT THERE ARE NO CHANGES WITHIN THE NEW MEXICO SENATE, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MICHAEL SANCHEZ, ALSO THE PRO TEM PAPEN, WILL HAVE A LOT ON THEIR PLATE, AND I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT YOU WILL SEE MUCH CHANGE OF BUSINESS OVER

IN THE SENATE, WHICH IS GOING TO REALLY FORCE, I THINK, THE HOUSE AND SPEAKER TRIPP TO REALLY SAY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BE THAT GOOD NEIGHBOR AND NOT SEND THOSE BOMBS OVER. >> SURE. INTERESTINGLY, INEZ, WE'VE GOT KENNY MARTINEZ, FORMER SPEAKER ON THE NOW MINORITY DEMOCRATS, SAYING HE'S NOT GOING TO RUN FOR A LEADERSHIP POSITION. BUT WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF FOLKS WHO ARE MAKING NOISE ABOUT LEADERSHIP STUFF. >> IT LOOKS LIKE BRIAN EGOLF OF SANTA FE AND ELISEO ALCON OF MILAN ARE INTERESTED. THERE WAS A STORY TODAY THAT PATTY LUNDSTROM OF GALLUP MIGHT ALSO BE INTERESTED. I THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS GOING FORWARD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO NOT JUST BE THE OPPOSITION PARTY IN THE HOUSE, BUT TO BE PEOPLE WHO PRESENT AN AFFIRMATIVE AGENDA THAT SHOWS WHERE THEY'RE DIFFERENT FROM REPUBLICANS, AND THEN ALSO FIND THE WAYS THAT THEY CAN COMPROMISE. YOU KNOW, WE WROTE AN EDITORIAL THIS WEEK TALKING ABOUT YOUR VICTORY, THAT IF 9 YOU CAN BE HUMBLE IN VICTORY AND IN DEFEAT, YOU MIGHT HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF GOVERNING, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T GET VOTERS OUT,

BUT REPUBLICANS ONLY WON THEIR MAJORITY WITH 38% OF THE PEOPLE VOTING. SO YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE THIS HUGE MANDATE FROM THE POPULATION TO GO OUT AND DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU WANT TO DO. YOU WON, YOU'RE GOING TO PUSH THE THINGS YOU'RE FOR, OF COURSE, BUT THERE MIGHT BE A WAY TO DO IT IN A MORE BIPARTISAN FASHION THAT ACTUALLY GETS LEGISLATION AT THE OTHER END THAT THE GOVERNOR WILL SIGN. >> THAT'S WELL SAID. >> I THINK JUST TO BUILD ON THAT, WHEN THE GOVERNOR IS A MEMBER OF YOUR PARTY, THE GOVERNOR IS SORT OF THE LEADER. WHEN YOU ARE OUT OF THE GOVERNOR'S CHAIR, YOU NEED SOMEBODY AT THE TOP OF YOUR LEGISLATIVE GROUPS TO REALLY SERVE AS A CHAMPION, A CHIEF CAMPAIGNER, A POLICY SETTER. AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO NEED, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO NEED, I THINK, A LOUD AND STRONG VOICE TO HELP TO BALANCE THE VOICE OF THE GOVERNOR. >> ROB, WE'RE UNDER 30 SECONDS HERE, BUT KENNY MARTINEZ SAYS HE'S NOT GOING TO SEEK, AS I MENTIONED, A LEADERSHIP POSITION. DOES THAT LEAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A VOID? HE'S GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE THERE IN LEADING PEOPLE. OR IS THAT

THE RIGHT THING TO DO, JUST STEP BACK A 10 LITTLE BIT? >> I THINK LIKE INEZ SAID, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION, DO YOU WANT TO GO WITH SOMEONE WHO IS RATHER STRIDENT, LIKE ALCON OR EGOLF, OR DO YOU WANT TO GET SOMEONE MORE IN THE CENTER. I'LL MAKE ONE OTHER QUICK POINT. I THINK THE 37-33 REPUBLICAN LEAD IN THE HOUSE CHANGES THE POLITICAL CALCULUS, BECAUSE THINGS LIKE RIGHT TO WORK, INSTEAD OF GETTING BOTTLED UP IN COMMITTEE OR HAVING A BIG BLOODY FLOOR FIGHT, THEY'RE GOING TO GO RIGHT TO THE SENATE, AND IN THE SENATE, PEOPLE LIKE MICHAEL SANCHEZ ARE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ME, REPORTERS SAYING, HEY, THAT RIGHT TO WORK BILL HAS BEEN SITTING ON YOUR DESK, OR HAS BEEN STUCK IN COMMITTEE. IT DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE EVERYTHING, BUT IT DOES CHANGE THE POLITICAL CALCULUS. >> THAT'S INTERESTING. WE HAVE TO WATCH THE CLOCK ON THIS, TOO. IT'S GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING SESSION. NOW, UP NEXT, PRODUCER AND CORRESPONDENT FLOYD VASQUEZ WITH A VETERANS DAY SEGMENT. >> I FIND MYSELF TYSON, THAT EVERYONE HAS A PLAN UNTIL YOU GET HIT IN THE MOUTH. WELL, NEW MEXICO

AND THE SPACEPORT JUST GOT HIT IN THE MOUTH, AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PLAN. >> IT WAS VETERANS DAY THIS WEEK, AND AS ALWAYS VETERANS IN THE COMMUNITY GATHERED. THIS WEEK, CORRESPONDENT AND 11 U.S. ARMY VETERAN FLOYD VASQUEZ TELLS US ABOUT A STRUGGLE VETERANS ARE GOING THROUGH HERE IN NEW MEXICO. IF YOU'VE LISTENED TO ELECTED OFFICIALS AND APPOINTEES EXTOL OUR VETERANS AND PRAISE GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO SERVE THEM, YOU MAY BE IN FOR A SHOCK. THIS STRUGGLE IS BETWEEN VETERANS WHO ANSWERED THE CALL TO SERVE, AND THE STATE GOVERNMENT THAT CLAIMS SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY FROM A LAW DESIGNED TO PROTECT THE JOBS OF THOSE VETERANS. IT'S A CASE WITH NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS AND IS BEING WATCHED CLOSELY BY STAKEHOLDERS NATIONWIDE. >> THE UNIFORMED SERVICES EMPLOYMENT AND REEMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ACT, KNOWN AS USERRA, MEMBERS REEMPLOYMENT RIGHTS WHEN RETURNING FROM A PERIOD OF SERVICE, INCLUDING THOSE CALLED UP FROM THE RESERVES OR NATIONAL GUARD, AND PROHIBITS EMPLOYER DISCRIMINATION BASED ON MILITARY SERVICE OR OBLIGATION. CONGRESS

ENACTED USERRA IN 1994. IT WAS INCORPORATED INTO NEW MEXICO LAW IN 2004, AND IT REMAINS ON THE BOOKS. JOINING US TODAY TO DISCUSS AN ISSUE OF CONCERN TO ALL NEW MEXICANS, AND CERTAINLY TO MEMBERS OF THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES, IS SERGEANT FIRST CLASS PHILLIP RAMIREZ, A MEMBER OF THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD. DAVE PEDERSON, GENERAL 12 COUNSEL, OFFICE OF THE NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL. AND GARY KAISER, PROGRAM SUPPORT MANAGER, EMPLOYER SUPPORT OF THE GUARD AND RESERVES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN. SERGEANT RAMIREZ, LET'S START WITH YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, AND FOR AGREEING TO BE HERE TODAY. NOW, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? >> I'M FROM GALLUP, NEW MEXICO. >> FROM GALLUP. AND YOU JOINED THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD, WHAT, IN THE EARLY NINETIES? >> YES, SIR. IN 1991, THE 22nd YOU REMEMBER WELL. NOW, IN 1997 YOU STARTED WORKING AS A COMMUNITY SUPPORT OFFICER FOR THE NEW MEXICO CHILDREN YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT.

WAS THAT ALSO IN GALLUP? >> YES, SIR. >> AND YOU WERE WORKING WITH AT-RISK KIDS? >> WITH THE JUVENILE PROBATION AND PAROLE KIDS, YES. >> OKAY. AND THEN IN 2005, YOU GOT ORDERS FOR IRAQ. TELL US ABOUT THAT. WHERE DID YOU GO, AND WHAT WAS YOUR UNIT'S MISSION THERE? >> WE WERE DEPLOYED TO IRAQ. INITIALLY WE STARTED OFF IN IRAQ, AND THEN WE ENDED UP IN KUWAIT. BUT OUR MISSION WAS, WE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 13 SUSTAINMENT PUSHES, VITAL SUSTAINMENT PUSHES THAT GO INTO IRAQ, AS FAR AS ALL THE SUPPLIES NEEDED. SO OUR JOB WAS TO PROVIDE SECURITY FOR THE TRUCKS THAT ARE GOING INTO IRAQ WITH ALL THE SUPPLIES. IT'S A 3-1 RATIO. SO WE HAVE TEN DIESELS PER GUN TRUCK. SO WHEN WE DID -- IT'S CALLED ONE PUSH. WHEN WE DID ONE PUSH, YOU'VE GOT 30

VEHICLES FOR THREE GUN TRUCKS, MEANING THE GUN TRUCKS ARE YOUR HUMVEES THAT HAVE THE MACHINE GUNS ON THEM FOR PROTECTION, FOR THE SECURITY OF THE SUPPLIES. >> OKAY. AND YOU DID -- WAS IT TWO TOURS IN IRAQ? >> I ACTUALLY DID -- MY FIRST TOUR DEPLOYMENT WAS 9/11, AND THE SECOND ONE WAS IRAQ. >> OKAY. WELL, SERGEANT RAMIREZ IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF NEW MEXICO VETERANS WHO HAVE BEEN FORCED TO FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHTS HERE AT HOME AGAINST AN UNLIKELY OPPONENT. MORE ON THAT SHORTLY. BUT FIRST, MORE ON THIS LAW CALLED USERRA. NOW, GARY KAISER WORKS FOR EMPLOYER SUPPORT OF THE GUARD AND RESERVE, AND HIS JOB, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS TO RECOGNIZE AND SUPPORT EMPLOYERS WHO HIRE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL GUARD AND COMPLY WITH USERRA. NOW,

GARY, WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO HONOR AND SUPPORT EMPLOYERS WHO HIRE GUARD MEMBERS AND 14 RESERVISTS? >> FIRST OF ALL, OVER 50% OF THE FIGHTING AND THAT STARTED IN '91 DURING THE FIRST DESERT STORM/DESERT SHIELD, THEY'RE ALL NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVISTS. IT'S THE HIGHEST CALL UP OF NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVE TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY WE'VE EVER HAD. SO AS A RESULT, IT HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON EMPLOYERS WHO COUNT ON THOSE HIGH PROFESSIONALS TO MAKE THEIR JOBS EASIER AND TO MAKE THEIR COMPANIES SUCCESSFUL. SO WE SAW A TREMENDOUS INCREASE IN EMPLOYERS WHO WERE UNAWARE OF THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO SUPPORT THEIR MEMBERS OF THE GUARD AND RESERVE, AND THEY WERE UNSURE AS TO REALLY WHAT THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES WERE. USERRA CAME TO REPLACE A LAW THAT EXISTED SINCE 1947, THE VETERANS REEMPLOYMENT RIGHTS ACT, WHICH WAS INSTITUTED AFTER WORLD WAR II WHEN SOLDIERS CAME HOME AND THERE WERE NO JOBS

FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE WAS NO LAW TO PROTECT THEM. BUT WITH A HIGH-OPS TEMPO, IT BECAME CRITICAL THAT EMPLOYERS UNDERSTOOD THEIR ROLE IN SUPPORTING MEMBERS OF THE GUARD AND RESERVE, OR ELSE WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE FIGHTING FORCES NEEDED TO DEPLOY. SO OUR MISSION REALLY TOOK ON A WHOLE NEW LIFE. OUR NAME, EMPLOYER SUPPORT OF THE GUARD AND RESERVE. MAIN MISSION, EDUCATE OUR EMPLOYERS AS TO WHAT IS 15 USERRA, WHY IS IT TO THEIR BENEFIT TO SUPPORT MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL GUARD. WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO LOOK AT OUR MEMBERS OF OUR GUARD AND RESERVES, THEY'RE HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL, HIGHLY TRAINED, AND WHAT THEY BRING TO THE TABLE, TO AN EMPLOYER. IN THE LAST TEN YEARS OR SO SINCE 9/11 WHERE THE REAL OPS-TEMPO INCREASED, EMPLOYERS HAVE ALL OF A SUDDEN REALIZED WHAT THEY REALLY HAD. THEY HAD A CROWN JEWEL OF EMPLOYEES WHO WERE HIGHLY TRAINED, HIGHLY MOTIVATED, HIGHLY DEDICATED, AND FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES DRUG FREE. I MEAN, WHAT MORE COULD YOU ASK OF ONE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES. SO

WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO SUPPORT THEIR MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVE. AND WE ALSO PROVIDE HELP IN EDUCATING THEM ON WHAT IS USERRA, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR AN EMPLOYER. >> WHAT ABOUT THAT? WHAT ARE SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF USERRA? >> THE SIMPLEST WAY OF EXPLAINING USERRA IS, LET MY PEOPLE GO. IT'S NOT A MATTER OF, OKAY, HOW ABOUT IN SIX MONTHS. WE HAVE GUARDSMEN RIGHT NOW THAT GET CALLED 24 HOURS A DAY. IF SOMETHING IN THIS STATE WERE TO TRANSPIRE, THE CONCHAS, THE FLOODS IN RUIDOSO, CARLSBAD, WITHIN 24 HOURS MEMBERS OF OUR GUARD AND RESERVE ARE ON DUTY SUPPORTING OUR STATE. 16 THAT'S THEIR STATE MISSION. CONVERSELY, WE HAVE SCHEDULED ROTATION SUPPORT OF THE REGULAR ARMY, THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD, AND AS OUR RESERVES IN THE NAVY AND THE ARMY DO, THEY ARE STANDING BY, TRAINED AND READY TO GO TO AUGMENT THE ACTIVE DUTY FORCES, WHETHER IT BE IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. AND WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF GUARD

AND RESERVISTS DOING THAT MISSION. AS OUR FULL-TIME FORCE DRAWS DOWN, THE GUARD AND RESERVES IS GOING TO BE RELIED ON EVEN MORE TO DO THE TREATIES THAT WE HAVE AND PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. SO EMPLOYERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY MUST LET THEM GO. NORMALLY THEY GET ADVANCE NOTICE SO THEY CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS, YOU ONLY HAVE THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE WORKING FOR YOU, AND ONE OR TWO ARE IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND THEY GET CALLED, YOUR BUSINESS IS SEVERELY IMPACTED. LARGE COMPANIES DON'T FEEL IT QUITE AS BAD BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE EMPLOYEES. BUT WE FIND A LOT OF EMPLOYERS WERE NOT AWARE OF THE LAWS UNTIL ALL OF A SUDDEN JOHNNY HAD TO GO TO WAR, AND THEN THEY WERE TOTALLY LOST. SO OUR MISSION BECAME VERY IMPORTANT TO EDUCATE EMPLOYERS. AND WHEN THEY DO A GREAT JOB -- AND I'M TELLING YOU, NEW MEXICO IS A VERY PRO-PATRIOTIC STATE WHEN IT 17 COMES TO SUPPORT OF OUR MILITARY, AND WHEN THEY HAVE TO LET THEIR EMPLOYEES GO, THEY STAY IN TOUCH WITH THEM, THEY TRY

TO HELP THEIR FAMILIES OUT, AND THAT DESERVES SOME KIND OF RECOGNITION. >> OKAY, I UNDERSTAND. NOW, TO THE ISSUE AT HAND. SERGEANT RAMIREZ IS ONE OF A NUMBER OF VETERANS, OFFICERS AND ENLISTED, WHO HAVE BEEN STYMIED IN THEIR EFFORTS TO SECURE THEIR RIGHTS UNDER USERRA, SPECIFICALLY SERVICE MEMBERS WHO ARE OR WERE EMPLOYED BY THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO. THEY'RE BEING DENIED THEIR RIGHTS NOT ON THE MERITS OF THE CASES, BUT THROUGH A CLAIM MADE BY STATE AGENCIES THAT USERRA DOES NOT APPLY TO THE STATE BY VIRTUE OF SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY. SERGEANT RAMIREZ IS ONE OF THOSE VETERANS. WHEN HE RETURNED FROM IRAQ, HE WAS RE-HIRED AT CYFD, BUT RAN INTO PROBLEMS. NEW SUPERVISORS, NEW GOALS, AND CLAIMS THAT HE WAS INSUBORDINATE. CYFD PLACED HIM ON LEAVE AND EVENTUALLY FIRED HIM. EARLIER THIS YEAR, RAMIREZ FILED SUIT AGAINST CYFD FOR VIOLATIONS OF USERRA, AND FOLLOWING A THREE-WEEK TRIAL A JURY FOUND THAT CYFD HAD, INDEED, VIOLATED HIS RIGHTS UNDER USERRA

AND AWARDED RAMIREZ DAMAGES. CYFD APPEALED TO THE NEW MEXICO COURT OF APPEALS ON THE ARGUMENT THAT THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO IS NOT SUBJECT TO USERRA BASED ON SOVEREIGN IMMUNITY. 18 NOW, DAVE PEDERSON, AS THE CHIEF COUNSEL OF THE NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THIS MAY HAVE CAUGHT YOU OFF GUARD. ISN'T THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO WHO WOULD ARGUE CASES SUCH AS THIS? >> WELL, FLOYD, YES. BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT SERGEANT RAMIREZ BROUGHT AGAINST CYFD, THEY WERE REPRESENTED NOT BY OUR OFFICE, BUT BY RISK MANAGEMENT DIVISION PRIVATE ATTORNEYS. THEY WERE DEFENDING IT BASED UPON IT BEING SOME KIND OF A MONETARY CLAIM. THEY WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN CONVINCING A JURY IN GALLUP, WHICH FOUND THAT, INDEED, SERGEANT RAMIREZ'S RIGHTS HAD BEEN VIOLATED. OUR OFFICE DID NOT

GET INVOLVED IN THIS UNTIL AFTER THE COURT OF APPEALS DECISION WAS MADE IN WHICH THERE WAS A VERY INTERESTING DISSENT, IT WAS NOT A UNANIMOUS OPINION, AND GAVE RISE TO THE CASE BEING PICKED UP BY THE NEW MEXICO SUPREME COURT. OUR OFFICE, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, IS ALLOWED TO INTERVENE IN ANY LAWSUIT WHERE WE BELIEVE IT IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF NEW MEXICO AND ITS CITIZENS, AND WHERE WE THINK THAT A BAD LEGAL THEORY IS BEING ADVANCED OR WE THINK THAT IT IS INAPPROPRIATE POLICY BEING ADVANCED. OUR OFFICE CHOSE TO INTERVENE ALONG WITH SOME 19 VERY INTERESTING LEGAL ALLIES THAT ORDINARILY ARE NOT ON THE SAME SIDE OF CASES, ENTITIES LIKE THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION, THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THE RESERVE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION. THIS IS A CASE, FLOYD, THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS NOT JUST FOR SERGEANT RAMIREZ, OR EVEN

JUST NEW MEXICO VETERANS, BUT HAS NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS. AND PART OF IT IS THIS INTERESTING ASPECT OF IT THAT THE LAW SPECIFICALLY COVERS PRIVATE EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES, IT COVERS LOCAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES, IT COVERS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES, AND YET THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO HAS ADVANCED THAT THE 11th AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION GRANTING IT, IN ESSENCE, IMMUNITY FROM MOST LAWSUITS BARS A FORMER STATE EMPLOYEE FROM HAVING THOSE SAME EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS. WELL THAT, FLOYD, NOT ONLY DOES IT NOT SEEM FAIR, IT SEEMED THAT IT WOULD BE HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT CONGRESS WOULD HAVE INTENDED THAT KIND OF A RESULT. AND WHEN WE GOT INTO THE LAWSUIT AND WE DID THE HISTORICAL ANALYSIS, WHICH INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH GOES WAY, WAY BACK BEYOND MERELY WORLD WAR II, THIS GOES BACK

LITERALLY TO THE FOUNDING OF THE REPUBLIC AND HOW REVOLUTIONARY WAR SOLDIERS WERE TREATED OR MISTREATED BY THE GOVERNMENT IN REGARDS TO PENSION RIGHTS AND OTHER 20 THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I THINK AS GARY HAS SAID, THIS IS ALSO A RECOGNITION IN MODERN TIMES OF HOW SIGNIFICANT THE GUARD AND RESERVE HAVE BECOME IN BEING DEPLOYED, ESPECIALLY IN MISSIONS OVERSEAS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME AND REPEATEDLY. AND I THINK CONGRESS CLEARLY INTENDED TO MAXIMIZE THE PROTECTION THAT COULD BE GIVEN TO THOSE INDIVIDUAL MEN AND WOMEN WHO SO HONORABLY SERVED IN OUR MILITARY SO THAT WHEN THEY CAME BACK FROM SERVICE, THAT THEY HAD THEIR SAME JOB OPPORTUNITIES MADE AVAILABLE TO THEM AS BEFORE THEY WERE DEPLOYED. WHAT THE CASE IS REALLY ABOUT IS ACCESS TO THE COURTHOUSE. SOMEBODY

WANTS TO CLOSE THE COURTHOUSE DOOR ON A WHOLE CATEGORY AND CLASS OF POTENTIAL CLAIMANTS, AND OUR OFFICE FELT THAT THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE. >> THE ARGUMENTS ARE FASCINATING, BECAUSE THEY DO GO BACK TO GEORGE WASHINGTON, TO THE FEDERALIST PAPERS. TALK ABOUT THAT, NOT AT GREAT LENGTH, BUT IT'S FASCINATING, THE WHOLE WAR POWERS ARGUMENT OF WHY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS THE ABILITY TO PROTECT THE COUNTRY. >> WELL, I THINK, FLOYD, IT IS, IT'S VERY INTERESTING. IT GOES BACK TO NEAR THE END OF THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR WHEN MANY CITIZEN SOLDIERS HAD FOUGHT FOR AS LONG AS EIGHT YEARS, THEY HAD BEEN 21 PROMISED PENSIONS, OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT, MANY OF THEM WERE IMPOVERISHED BY DEBTS THAT HAD BEEN INCURRED BY THEIR FAMILIES WHILE THEY WERE AWAY FIGHTING FOR THE LITERAL FOUNDATION OF THE COUNTRY, AND THIS

PARTICULAR ISSUE AND THE NEED FOR NATIONAL UNIFORMITY AND SUPREMACY OF NATIONAL LAW OVER THE RIGHTS OF STATES, WHICH ARE CERTAINLY FULLY RECOGNIZED ORDINARILY, BUT THE NEED FOR THAT UNIFORMITY IS IN ONE OF THOSE RARE AREAS, AND THE WAR POWERS ACT GRANTS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REALLY OVERREACHING POWER TO DECIDE THIS. THERE WAS A RECENT CASE, THE MOST RECENT ONE, CALLED THE KATZ CASE, WHERE THE FEDERAL COURTS DECIDED THAT THE NEED FOR UNIFORMITY AND DECISIONS IN BANKRUPTCY LAWS, WHICH IS ANOTHER SORT OF UNIQUELY NATIONAL ISSUE, THAT THAT, INDEED, SUPERSEDED THE STATES' LIMITATIONS TO BE SUED UNDER THE 11th AMENDMENT. AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, USERRA WAS MODIFIED IN ORDER TO SPECIFICALLY ALLOW LITIGATION OF RIGHTS IN STATE COURTS BECAUSE OF MODERN FEDERAL JURIS PRUDENCE WHICH SEVERELY LIMITED THE ABILITY

OF ANYONE TO DRAG A STATE INTO FEDERAL COURT. SO IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT CONGRESS KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, HISTORICALLY THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, AND JUST BECAUSE THEY DID NOT EXPLICITLY INCLUDE STATE EMPLOYEES ALONG WITH EVERY 22 OTHER FORM OF EMPLOYEE THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY INTENDED A DIFFERENT RESULT FOR EMPLOYEES OF STATES THAN THEY DID EVERY OTHER KIND OF EMPLOYEE WHO HAPPENS TO HONORABLY SERVE IN THE GUARD AND THE RESERVES. >> OKAY. NOW, GARY, AS PART OF YOUR JOB, YOU LIKELY MUST HAVE A LOT OF CONTACT WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD. I DID REQUEST A SPOKESPERSON TO SHARE THE GUARD'S POINT OF VIEW, IF NOT ON THE CASE AT LEAST GENERALLY ON USERRA AND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT, AND I WAS NOT ABLE, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I CALLED OR E-MAILS I SENT, TO GET

SOMEONE TO COME ON AND SPEAK WITH US OR TO SEND US A STATEMENT. ANY IDEAS AS TO WHY THAT MIGHT BE? >> I THINK IT WAS BECAUSE IT'S VERSUS STRICTLY A USERRA TYPE THING. IN MY OPINION, AND IT'S ONLY MY OPINION, IT'S A NO WIN SITUATION. I MEAN, THE STATE HAS RIGHTS, THE INDIVIDUALS HAVE RIGHTS, AND AGAIN, THE INTENT OF USERRA WAS TO COVER EVERYBODY THAT SERVES IN OUR ARMED FORCES. AND THE ADJUTANT GENERAL WORKS FOR THE GOVERNOR, WORKS FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE CASES THAT'S HIGH ON THEIR ANTENNAS, YOU MIGHT SAY, TO KEEP TRACK OF BECAUSE IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT. 23 THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO IS THE LARGEST EMPLOYER OF NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVE IN THIS STATE, AND SO IT IS SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS HAPPENS. QUICKLY, ON THE FEDERAL SIDE, USVR IS PART OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. WE WORK WHAT

WE CALL THE PEACEFUL MODE OF RESOLUTION. YOU KNOW, WE INTERCEDE AS OMBUDSMAN TO ENCOURAGE EMPLOYERS TO READ THE LAW, MAKE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS, AND THEN DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE GUARD AND RESERVE. 90% OF THE TIME IT WORKS, BECAUSE HR'S OR BUSINESS OWNERS AREN'T REALLY AWARE OF WHAT THE LAW SAYS. WHEN IT DOESN'T, A GUARD OR RESERVIST HAS OPTIONS. THEY CAN HIRE THEIR OWN ATTORNEY, WHICH SERGEANT RAMIREZ HAS DONE, OR THEY CAN GO TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WHO HAS AN INDIVIDUAL, THE D-VET AS HE'S CALLED, GEORGE RIEDEL IN THIS STATE RIGHT NOW IS THE D-VET, THEY WILL THEN AS DEPARTMENT OF LABOR DO AN OFFICIAL, WITH SUBPOENA POWER, BETWEEN THIS STORY VERSUS THAT STORY, WHO IS RIGHT, WHO IS WRONG INTERPRETATION OF USERRA, AND ADVISE THE EMPLOYER. YOU VIOLATED IT, OR YOU DIDN'T. IF THEY VIOLATED IT, THEY'RE GIVEN A CHANCE TO RESOLVE IT. IF THEY REFUSE, IT GOES TO THE U.S. ATTORNEY VERSUS STATE. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USVR AND THEM. 24

BUT ONCE YOU GET A LAWYER, YOU'RE KIND OF ON YOUR OWN, WHICH IS WHY THE STATE ATTORNEY IS HERE. >> LET ME ASK YOU, VERY BRIEFLY, IF I'M A MEMBER OF THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD AND I'D LIKE TO MEET UP WITH YOU OR ONE OF YOUR FOLKS TO TALK ABOUT THIS, HOW WOULD I REACH YOU? >> CALL ME AT OUR OFFICES AT THE WYOMING NATIONAL GUARD ARMORY, 600 WYOMING. I'M AT 271-7117 IS MY EXTENSION. AND AGAIN, MY JOB IS TO RESOLVE ISSUES, WHETHER IT BE ON THE MILITARY SIDE OR THE EMPLOYER SIDE, BECAUSE YES, WE HAVE COMMANDERS OF ALL GUARD AND RESERVE, WE'RE IN CONTACT WITH. >> OKAY. I ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT I DID REACH OUT TO THE NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN SERVICES, AS WELL, AND AS YOU MAY KNOW, THE SECRETARY JUST RESIGNED EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, BUT THAT HIS PIO PASSED ON THAT HE SAID HE SAW THIS AS MORE OF A FEDERAL ISSUE, AND THAT HE RECOMMENDED THAT WE CONTACT THE NEW MEXICO NATIONAL GUARD AS THIS WAS MORE AN ISSUE IN WHICH THEY WERE DIRECTLY IMPACTED. NOW FINALLY, PHILLIP, WHEN YOU WON THIS JURY TRIAL,

THE JURY FOUND IN YOUR FAVOR, WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THE STATE'S RESPONSE? >> IT WASN'T SO MUCH SURPRISE, IT RATHER THAN A STORY. I MEAN, OKAY, YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HEAR A STORY, BUT 25 I'M GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH. SO THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT IT CAME DOWN TO. AND SO TELLING THE TRUTH, I MEAN, RESULTED IN, LIKE I SAID, WINNING THE BATTLE. >> WELL, THIS CASE IS NOT OVER. IT IS GOING TO BE HEARD BY THE NEW MEXICO SUPREME COURT IN DECEMBER, AND DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS THERE, IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT. WE WILL KEEP YOU POSTED. I WANT TO THANK YOU AGAIN VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN AND SPENDING THIS TIME WITH US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US. >> THANK

YOU, FLOYD. >> THANK YOU. >> IT'S SOMETHING I NEVER LONG AFTER, AND I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ARTISTS IN ONE WAY ARE LOOKING FOR, IS THAT THEIR WORK IS HONORED. >> WHEN THE NEWS BROKE THAT THE VIRGIN GALACTIC SPACESHIP THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO FERRY TOURISTS KILLING ONE AND INJURING ANOTHER, IT STARTED REVERBERATING THROUGHOUT OUR STATE. NOW THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL REPORTS THAT THIS DISASTER HIGHLIGHTS A SERIOUS ISSUE. CRITICS SAY THE STATE PUT TOO MANY EGGS IN ONE BASKET, MEANING VIRGIN GALACTIC, AND THIS HAS HAMPERED EFFORTS TO ATTRACT OTHER TENANTS TO THE RAPIDLY GROWING COMMERCIAL SPACE INDUSTRY. ROB, I GUESS SEVERAL QUESTIONS. IS THAT A PLAUSIBLE THING TO 26 YOU? BECAUSE WE'RE HEARING THERE ARE NOT GOING TO BE SPACE FLIGHTS UNTIL 2016 NOW, BUT EVEN SOME ARE SAYING THAT'S AGGRESSIVE GIVEN HOW SPACE THINGS ROLL. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? >> I THINK

IT'S PROBABLY A FAIR THERE'S -- I WASN'T HERE WHEN THEY PASSED THE SPACEPORT THING. IF I HAD BEEN, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN AGAINST IT. BUT IT'S BEEN BUILT, WE SPENT 218 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER MONEY, SO LET'S TRY TO MAKE THIS THING WORK. BUT ALL ALONG, THE PROBLEM I'VE HAD WITH THIS IS IT REMINDS ME OF A LOT OF WHAT YOU SEE IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS, WHERE A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS OWNER SAYS, GIVE ME A BETTER LEASE OR I'M GOING TO MOVE TO A DIFFERENT CITY. AND THAT'S A CONCERN ALWAYS HAD ABOUT SPACEPORT. I THINK IT REALLY COMES TO THE FORE, BECAUSE BACK IN 2012 A COMPANY CALLED XCOR AEROSPACE WAS THINKING ABOUT, AND IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE READY TO COME TO NEW MEXICO, BUT THEY WENT TO TEXAS BECAUSE THEY GOT $10 MILLION MORE. THEY GOT A $10 MILLION OFFER. AND THAT'S MY CONCERN, IS THAT THIS SPACEPORT THING, WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE UP AGAINST LARGER STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA

AND TEXAS WHO ARE MAKING BETTER OFFERS. WE'VE ALREADY PONIED UP 218 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS. 27 IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY HARD PUSH TO GO UP TO TAXPAYERS, GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF WE BUILD A BETTER ROAD OUT THERE, LET'S SPEND $10 MILLION MORE -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH ROAD. >> INEZ, LET'S STAY RIGHT ON THAT LAST POINT FROM ROB NIKOLEWSKI. THE SPACEPORT PEOPLE HAVE SAID IN THE PAPER, IN FACT, THEY ARE GOING TO ASK FOR APPROPRIATIONS HERE TO TIDE THEM OVER. BUT WE HAVE THIS NEW HOUSE MAKE-UP NOW WITH REPUBLICANS, I WONDER HOW THIS WILL ALL TURN OUT, THIS DISCUSSION NOW. >> YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE FRUGAL, YOU PROBABLY MONEY, PLUS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE PRICE OF OIL. GAS IS LOW, CONSUMERS LIKE THAT, BUT THAT MEANS WE'RE GOING TO GET LESS MONEY FOR THE STATE COFFERS. I THINK ROB MAKES A REALLY GOOD POINT, THOUGH. THE SPACEPORT IS HERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO SPACE, WHETHER IT'S FOR TOURISM, OR MORE LIKELY FOR BUSINESS AND COMMERCE, AND THERE'S NO REASON, GIVEN THE FACT THAT NEW MEXICO HAS SO MANY FLYING DAYS, WE HAVE

WHITE SANDS, WE HAVE ASTRONAUTS FROM NEW MEXICO THAT HAVE BEEN TO THE MOON AND ALL THOSE OTHER KINDS OF THINGS, THERE'S NO REASON WHY WE 28 DON'T DECIDE TO MAKE IT WORK. >> I'M GOING TO COUNTER YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT, AND USE TOM AS THE COUNTER, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME, TOM, IF WHAT INEZ IS PROPOSING, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPENING ALL THE WAY ALONG, AND IT JUST HASN'T. WE FIND OUT THIS WEEK THAT THERE IS A PLAN B, BUT IT JUST STARTED BEING WRITTEN THIS YEAH, IN THE WAKE OF ALL THIS. THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST SURPRISING THINGS FAR AS NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN'T CONTROL, LIKE THE TEST FLIGHTS AND SUCH, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN CONTROL. LIKE IF YOU HAVE A $212 MILLION INVESTMENT AND YOU DON'T HAVE A MARKETING PLAN FOR THAT, AND IT WAS 2006 THAT THIS WAS PASSED. WE'RE APPROACHING TEN YEARS THAT THE SPACEPORT HAS BEEN A PART OF THE NEW MEXICO LANDSCAPE, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I FIND MYSELF THINKING AND QUOTING MIKE TYSON, THAT EVERYONE HAS A PLAN UNTIL YOU GET HIT IN THE MOUTH. WELL, NEW MEXICO AND THE SPACEPORT JUST GOT HIT

IN THE MOUTH, AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PLAN, AND THAT'S A LITTLE DISTURBING TO ME. >> THERE'S NOT EVEN A PERSON IN CHARGE OF THIS AT ALL. >> NO MARKETING. AND YOU HAVE PLACES LIKE TEXAS, FLORIDA, CALIFORNIA WHO ARE VERY GOOD AT THIS. 29 >> THAT'S RIGHT, AND THEIR GOVERNORS HAVE SHOWN A STRONG COMMITMENT TO THIS. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> HOW SHOULD THE TAXPAYER FEEL, EITHER THE LOCAL TAXPAYER IN THOSE COUNTIES WHO HAVE BEEN DINGED FOR THIS ALREADY, OR ALL OF US? THE WAIT AND SEE ATTITUDE, HOW LONG CAN WE WAIT AND SEE WITH THIS? >> I THINK THE MESSAGE THAT WE'VE GOTTEN IS THAT WE REALLY CAN'T WAIT IT'S FASCINATING TO HEAR SOME OF THE CRITICISMS OF THE SPACEPORT THAT REALLY HAVEN'T COME FORWARD BEFORE NOW. FOR INSTANCE, THE BUILDING IS BEAUTIFUL THAT WE HAVE THERE, THE FACILITY THERE IS BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT'S NOT SCALABLE. BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED, YOU CAN'T EASILY ADD SPACE FOR ADDITIONAL COMPANIES. >> IT'S A CYLINDRICAL SHAPE. >> IT'S ROUND, YEAH. AND I SORT OF WONDER WHETHER THE INTENTION WAS ALWAYS, IT SEEMS TO ME -- IT'S NOT EVEN A WONDER -- THAT BRANSON WOULD, YOU KNOW, DESCEND FROM THE SKY, I GUESS LITERALLY, AND THAT THAT WOULD

BE THE ENTIRE ENGINE FOR THAT AREA. I THINK TO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED INEZ, THOUGH, IF YOU ARE A LEGISLATOR, A BIG PART OF THIS IS GOING TO DEPEND ON WHAT PART OF THE STATE YOU'RE FROM. I'M NOT SURE IT REALLY FALLS OUT INTO DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN. 30 I THINK IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH, IF YOU ARE TASKED WITH PROTECTING THAT PART OF THE STATE, THE CONSTITUENTS IN THAT PART OF THE STATE, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT FALL OUT. IT IS SHOCKING TO ME, AS TOM SAID, THAT THEY HAVE HAD NO MARKETING STAFF, THAT THEY HAVE REALLY JUST DONE KIND OF OUTREACH ON AN EXECUTIVE LEVEL. THAT JUST SEEMS VERY SHORTSIGHTED. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS COME OUT, ROB NIKOLEWSKI, IS WE HAVE HORIZONTAL TAKING OFF, AND VERTICAL TAKING OFF. ONE WE'RE PLANNED FOR, FOR THE SPACESHIP TWO AND ALL THAT, BUT THE OTHER WE HAVEN'T DONE QUITE WELL WITH. AND THAT'S WHAT THE OTHER STATES TOM MENTIONED ARE DOING WELL WITH. THEY'RE DOING VERTICAL LAUNCHES FOR THE SPACE STATION AND ALL THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO THERE IS SOMETHING WE COULD BE DOING. BUT NOT FOR CHEAP MONEY. TO BUILD A NEW LAUNCHPAD WOULD BE SOME DOUGH. >> BUT IN THE SPACEPORT'S DEFENSE, SPACE-X IS THE OTHER

TENANT. SO FAR, THERE ARE TWO TENANTS, ONE CUSTOMER. THE ONE CUSTOMER IS UP AEROSPACE OUT OF THE COLORADO AREA. THE TWO TENANTS ARE VIRGIN GALACTIC AND SPACE-X, ELON MUSK. SO THEY'VE GOT A LEASE WITH 31 THEM. AND EVEN BEFORE THE HALLOWEEN CRASH, I REMEMBER TALKING TO LARRY LARRANAGA AND JOHN ARTHUR SMITH OVER IN THE LEGISLATURE, TWO PRETTY MUCH FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, AND I WAS ASKING THEM ABOUT THE SPACEPORT, THIS IS BEFORE THE ACCIDENT, AND BOTH OF THEM SAID THAT THEY THOUGHT THAT SPACE-X MIGHT BE A MORE -- MIGHT HAVE MORE POTENTIAL THAN VIRGIN GALACTIC. WELL, LET'S HOPE SO. >> I'VE HEARD THAT, TOO. IT'S CHEAPER TO FLY. MORE FOLKS CAN GET IN ON IT WITH A SPACE FLIGHT, AS OPPOSED TO A QUARTER OF A MILLION, TO GO UP WITH THAT. I'M STILL ON THIS IDEA OF VERTICAL LAUNCHES VERSUS HORIZONTAL, NOT TO GET TOO SPACE GEEKY ABOUT THIS, BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE WHERE

THE MONEY IS. NASA HAS BEEN THROWING MONEY LIKE THIS OUT THERE BY THE MILLIONS FOR A LONG TIME NOW, AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET IN ON THIS. CAN OUR LEGISLATURE, IN OUR VIEW, BE FLIPPED ENOUGH TO SPEND ANOTHER $100 MILLION, $50 MILLION, $25 MILLION? I MEAN, WHO KNOWS WHAT IT WOULD COST. >> I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE, AND I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW AGGRESSIVE THE STATE WANTS TO BE. I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WHEN THE GOVERNOR CAME IN IS THERE WAS A NATURAL TENDENCY NOT TO LIKE WHAT YOUR 32 PREDECESSOR DID, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE WAS SUCH BAD BLOOD. AND THEY DID NOT GO FOR THE SPACEPORT QUICKLY, THEY WEREN'T AGGRESSIVE ABOUT IT, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUILT TO BEGIN WITH. AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S BUILT, SO THE IDEA NOW IS TO GO FOR IT. I REMEMBER MEETING WITH THE VIRGIN GALACTIC OFFICIALS. THEY WERE IN SANTA FE TO TESTIFY, AND THEY CAME BY THE NEWSPAPER. THEY WERE NOT HAPPY BEING THE ONLY TENANT. THEY WANTED OTHER PEOPLE. AND THEY WERE UPSET THAT NEW MEXICO HAD NOT DONE MORE TO ATTRACT OTHER PEOPLE. >> SO WHO TAKES THE LEADERSHIP ROLE ON THIS? IS IT THE STATE'S JOB TO GO FIND MORE TENANTS, OR IS IT A CONSORTIUM OF SPACE PEOPLE? >> SPACEPORT AMERICA, WHICH IS A PART OF THE NEW MEXICO STATE

GOVERNMENT. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE SPACE INDUSTRY, A LOT OF US GROWING UP WILL THINK SPUTNIK, GEMINI, APOLLO, SPACE SHUTTLE. THOSE ARE ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS PRIVATIZED SPACE PROGRAMS, AND THAT'S REALLY A VERY NEW INDUSTRY. SO IT'S NOT LIKE GOING OUT AND FINDING CUSTOMERS. THIS IS A VERY SPECIFIC NICHE. BUT I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, LET'S EMPOWER THE SPACEPORT 33 TEAM TO REALLY, THROUGH THIS MARKETING PLAN THAT THEY'RE DEVELOPING, LET'S SEE WHAT IT IS, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S REASONABLE AND BELIEVABLE, THEN LET'S GO AHEAD AND FUND IT. BUT I THINK THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE REALLY IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT, AS THEY HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST EIGHT YEARS. >> LAST QUESTION. WE'VE GOT A FEW SECONDS HERE. IS IT IN OUR BEST INTERESTS AT SOME POINT AS A STATE TO DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND WITH THE BRANSON PEOPLE, SAYING THIS THING IS EITHER A GO OR A NO GO? I DON'T KNOW, NEXT SUMMER OR NEXT FALL, THAT KIND OF THING. >> WHAT IF WE SAY, OH, IT'S A NO GO? WE HAVE AN EMPTY BUILDING. THAT JUST SEEMS CRAZY TO ME. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT REALLY NO MATTER WHAT, IF WE NEED

THE DECISION, ANYTHING FROM GOING FOR THE MOON, SO TO SPEAK, TO SHUTTING THE PLACE DOWN, IT'S GOING TO COST MONEY NO MATTER WHAT. SO LOOKING AT THE VARIOUS RETURNS IS WHAT THEY'VE GOT TO DO. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. COMING UP, ANOTHER VETERAN'S STORY. SANTA FE ARTIST AND VIETNAM VETERAN MICHAEL NARANJO SITS DOWN WITH PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK. AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT PEOPLE THERE WOULD RATHER HAVE THEIR WATER THAN THEY WOULD 34 AN OIL WELL AND MONEY. AND MY FOLKS RANCHED IN MORA FOR 30 YEARS, AND THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT. SO IT RECENTLY, A NEW MEMORIAL WAS UNVEILED IN WASHINGTON, D.C. TO HONOR DISABLED VETERANS AND THEIR FAMILIES. IT'S THE FIRST SUCH NATIONAL TRIBUTE, AND IT INCLUDES QUOTATIONS BY VETERANS WHO SUFFERED BATTLEFIELD INJURIES. AMONG THOSE INSCRIPTIONS IS ONE BY SANTA CLARA PUEBLO

ARTIST MICHAEL NARANJO. WHILE SERVING IN VIETNAM, HE LOST HIS SIGHT FROM A GRENADE BLAST WHICH ALSO SHATTERED ONE OF HIS HANDS. NEVERTHELESS, HE HAS FORGED A SUCCESSFUL CAREER AS A SCULPTURE. NMiF PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK SPOKE WITH HIM NARANJO ABOUT HIS INSCRIPTION AND THE MEANING OF THE MEMORIAL FOR SOLDIERS LIKE HIM WHO CAME BACK PERMANENTLY DISABLED BY THEIR SERVICE. >> MICHAEL NARANJO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. >> MY PLEASURE. >> YOUR SCULPTURES ARE VERY WELL AMONG COLLECTORS. SO, HOW DOES IT FEEL NOW TO HAVE YOUR WORDS ON A PERMANENT ARTWORK COMMEMORATING THE SACRIFICES OF VETERANS? >> HONORED. I WAS AND ASKED IF THEY 35 COULD PUT THEM ON THE WALLS AT THE MEMORIAL, THE DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS MEMORIAL IN WASHINGTON AT THE MALL. IT'S SOMETHING I NEVER

EXPECTED, AND IT WILL BE THERE LONG AFTER. AND I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT ARTISTS IN ONE WAY ARE LOOKING FOR, IS THAT THEIR WORK IS HONORED, AND HOW MUCH HONOR CAN THERE BE, HOW MUCH MORE HONOR CAN THERE BE. >> WHAT WAS IT LIKE MEETING OTHER FELLOW VETERANS WHEN YOU WENT TO THE CEREMONY IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHO WERE ALSO DISABLED LIKE YOU WERE? >> VETERANS ARE ALWAYS VERY INTERESTING TO COME ACROSS, BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT PROBLEMS WE ALL HAVE AND SITUATIONS THAT WE COME ACROSS, AND HOW DO WE TAKE CARE OF THESE PROBLEMS. THERE'S A COMMON GROUND THAT WE WALK WHICH MAKES UNDERSTANDING MUCH EASIER. AND THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF DISABILITIES THAT I OFTEN THINK, AND I WOULD IMAGINE A LOT OF OTHER VETERANS THINK,

I THINK THEIRS IS WORSE THAN MINE. BUT IT'S JUST WHAT YOU'RE USED TO, BECAUSE IT'S YOURS. YOU LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT. >> SO DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE, WELL, MAYBE I DON'T HAVE IT SO BAD? >> RIGHT. >> THE VIETNAM MEMORIAL, WHICH IS ON THE NATIONAL MALL, IS SO FAMOUS. IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT WORK. AND THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER MEMORIALS IN WASHINGTON, AS 36 WELL, HONORING NATIONAL SERVICE AND PEOPLE WHO DIED SERVING THIS COUNTRY. THIS NEW MEMORIAL IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO HONOR PEOPLE WHO ARE DISABLED VETERANS FROM ALL THE WARS. SO, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS PARTICULAR MEMORIAL NOW? >> THERE ARE MEMORIALS FOR ALL DIFFERENT WARS, AND THIS IS FOR ALL VETERANS OF ALL WARS. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN, BUT IT DOES.

AND WE'RE HERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE PERHAPS CAN BE AWARE OF, THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM, THERE IS A NEED, THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE VETERANS OUT THERE WHO ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO FIND THEIR PLACE IN SOCIETY. >> WHAT DO YOU WANT OR HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND ABOUT VETERANS AND DISABILITY IF THEY GO TO THIS MEMORIAL? WE NEED EACH OTHER. WE CAN'T DO IT ALONE, HOW MUCH HAVE THESE PEOPLE GIVEN FOR THEIR DISABILITY, FOR US TO BE HERE AND TO LIVE THE WAY THAT WE DO. AND THESE VETERANS WITH THEIR -- NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE PHYSICAL SCARS, AND NOT ALWAYS CAN YOU TELL THAT THEY ARE HURTING BECAUSE THE INSIDE, THE MIND, THE BODY INTERNALLY ALSO

SUFFERS A GREAT DEAL FROM THE TRAGEDY THAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH. >> THE QUOTATION ON THE 37 MEMORIAL FROM YOU READS, IF YOU DON'T MIND IF I READ IT OR REPEAT IT FOR YOU: 'WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG, YOU'RE INVINCIBLE. YOU'RE IMMORTAL. I THOUGHT I'D COME BACK. PERHAPS I WOULDN'T. THERE WAS THAT THOUGHT, TOO. BUT I HAD THIS FEELING I WOULD COME BACK. UNDERNEATH THAT FEELING, THERE WAS ANOTHER THAT MAYBE I WOULDN'T BE QUITE THE SAME. BUT I FELT I'D MAKE IT BACK.' SO HOW HAS YOUR ART HELPED YOU ADAPT TO THE FACT THAT YOU WEREN'T THE SAME WHEN YOU CAME BACK FROM VIETNAM? >> IT WAS FRIGHTENING AFTER I FINALLY WAS AWARE OF MY DISABILITY, NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE AND HAVING ONLY USE OF ONE HAND. WHAT I HAD ALWAYS WANTED TO DO WAS BE A SCULPTURE AS A SMALL BOY, SO TO SUDDENLY REALIZE THAT

PERHAPS MY DREAM WAS NO MORE WAS FRIGHTENING. IT WAS SCARY. AND I REMEMBER LAYING IN THE HOSPITAL BED THINKING ABOUT IT, AND WHEN A VOLUNTEER CAME ALONG AND ASKED, I ASKED FOR CLAY AND DISCOVERED THAT I COULD STILL DO IT. AND I THINK SOMETHING ABOUT ART, ART IS AN AMAZING MEANS OF COMMUNICATING. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT AN AID TO HEALING, AND IT LENDS ITSELF TO MY DISABILITY. BUT ART, IT GAVE ME A PURPOSE. I COULD FOCUS ON SOMETHING NOW WHICH HELPED DISPLACE 38 THE HURT, THE PAIN, THE DISABILITY, AND IT HELPED CARRY ME THROUGH DIFFICULT TIMES. >> EVEN THOUGH THE VIETNAM WAR ENDED DECADES AGO, THE VOLUME OF DISABILITY CLAIMS FROM VETERANS LIKE YOU AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO SERVED, IT CONTINUES TO CLIMB,

AND THERE'S A HUGE BACKLOG FOR SERVICES FOR VETERANS. SO HOW DO YOU THINK WE CAN RAISE AWARENESS WITH EVERY ONE OF THE CHALLENGES VETERANS FACE COMING BACK, EVEN LONG AFTER THE CONFLICTS HAVE ENDED? >> BY VARIOUS GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DEALING WITH VETERANS STILL OUT THERE. THERE'S AN ORGANIZATION NOW CALLED VETS HEADING HOME. THEY'RE IN ANY CITY, TOWN, COMMUNITY. THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS DEALING WITH VETERANS AND JUST SUPPORTING THEM. SO OFTEN IF WE HAVE RELATIVES, PEOPLE, FRIENDS WE KNOW, THEN WE ARE AWARE, BUT WE NEED TO GO OUT THERE AND MAKE OTHER PEOPLE AWARE THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE STILL IN NEED OF HELP. AND IT'S DIFFICULT AT TIMES WITH THESE LARGE

ORGANIZATIONS, THE BUREAUCRACY OF GOVERNMENT AND HAVING TO DEAL WITH SO MANY VETERANS. AND NOT ONLY THE VETERANS FROM PAST WARS, BUT THERE ARE STILL, TODAY, NEW VETERANS COMING HOME EVERY DAY. WE JUST NEED TO BE AWARE OF 39 IT NOT ENDING. >> EVEN AFTER THE CONFLICT ENDS. >> AFTER THE CONFLICT. >> WELL, MICHAEL NARANJO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND THE WONDERFUL ART THAT YOU GIVE THE WORLD. >> THANK ACTUALLY, WITH THE CITY FOR DRAWING THE LINE IN THE SAND HERE. I THINK THAT THEY HEARD FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, THEY HEARD FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS, AND THEY'VE MADE AN IMPORTANT POINT. >> NEW MEXICO IS

A LEADING PRODUCER OF CRUDE OIL AND NATURAL GAS AND THE ENERGY INDUSTRY PLAYS A CRITICAL ROLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY. YET, NEW MEXICO IS ALSO A STATE WHERE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE TAKING ACTION TO PREVENT OR RESTRICT OIL AND GAS DRILLING. NOW, THIS WEEK, SAN MIGUEL COUNTY VOTED TO IMPOSE SOME OF THE STRICTEST REQUIREMENTS IN THE COUNTRY ON OIL AND GAS DRILLING. AND A FEDERAL JUDGE IS REVIEWING A BAN PASSED BY THE MORA COUNTY COMMISSION A LITTLE WHILE AGO. SOPHIE, THESE ARE NOT WEALTHY COUNTIES, AND SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO'S OIL PATCH IS CERTAINLY BOOMING, THERE'S NO DOUBT ON THAT. BUT WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? THERE'S ALWAYS A TUG OF WAR HERE, WE ALL KNOW THAT, 40 BETWEEN ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND FOLKS WHO WANT TO DRILL. BUT WHERE DO WE STAND IN THIS TUG OF WAR A FASCINATING ISSUE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, IT IS A RELATIVELY POOR COUNTY. THERE ARE OTHER COUNTIES THAT ARE ALSO LOOKING AT THIS WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY FLUSH. I DON'T WANT TO ASCRIBE ULTERIOR MOTIVES TO THE COUNTY AT ALL, BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT AT LEAST ONE LEASE HAS BEEN SORT OF HELD UP, AND THE SQUARE ACREAGE VERSUS THE AMOUNT THAT'S BEING PAID

DOES SEEM PRETTY UNBALANCED, LIKE A FAIRLY LOW AMOUNT. WE SEE AREAS IN NEW MEXICO THAT EXPERIENCE TREMENDOUS GROWTH BECAUSE OF OIL AND GAS, BUT HERE'S MORA SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH IT. IT'S FASCINATING. AND I THINK AS THE FIRST COUNTY IN THE COUNTRY TO ENACT THIS KIND OF RESTRICTION, THIS IS GOING TO BE A TEST CASE FOR THE REST OF THE U.S. >> SURE. INEZ, TO BOUNCE BETWEEN COUNTIES HERE, I HAVE TO WONDER IF THE SAN MIGUEL FOLKS ARE LOOKING AT THE MORA COUNTY FOLKS AND SAYING, THERE'S A CHANCE TO TAKE THE FIRM STAND HERE AND LET THE COURTS KIND OF FIGURE IT OUT AFTER THAT. >> I THINK THINK THEY WERE LOOKING TO WHAT SANTA FE DID YEARS AGO WHEN IT DID RESTRICT OIL AND GAS 41 DRILLING SUCCESSFULLY AND HASN'T HAD TO FACE THE KIND OF COURT CHALLENGES THAT HAPPENED IN MORA, BECAUSE BASICALLY I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE OUTCOME, WHICH IS THAT THEY WANT CONTROLLED OIL AND GAS DRILLING, IF IT HAPPENS, OR NOT AT ALL, TO MAKE IT EXPENSIVE. SO IF YOU RESTRICT IT IN A WAY, YOU CAN LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO YOUR WATER AND TO YOUR AIR AND

TO YOUR LAND, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ALLOWING PEOPLE, IF THEY WANT TO PAY THE PRICE, TO EXERCISE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. YOU KNOW, I AM FROM LAS VEGAS, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT PEOPLE THERE WOULD RATHER HAVE THEIR WATER THAN THEY WOULD AN OIL WELL AND MONEY. AND MY FOLKS RANCHED IN MORA FOR 30 YEARS, AND THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT. SO IT IS A QUESTION OF VALUES AND A QUESTION OF OLDER TRADITIONS. I THINK IT'S NOT EVEN MODERN ENVIRONMENTALISTS, IT'S PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED ON THE LAND FOR A LONG TIME, AND THEY WANT TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS AND THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE THAT UP FOR A DOLLAR. >> I APPRECIATE THAT DISTINCTION, BECAUSE THAT IS A DISTINCTION. RATHER THAN ENVIRONMENTALISTS FLYING IN FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY AND RAISING A RUCKUS, IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT DEAL. BUT INEZ MAKES A GOOD POINT, ROB NIKOLEWSKI, THIS IS 42 ABOUT LOCAL MORES AND LOCAL WANTS AND DESIRES AT THE END OF THE DAY, ISN'T IT? >> YEAH, SURPRISED IF THE MORA COUNTY ORDINANCE HOLDS UP IN COURT. THE SAN MIGUEL ONE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S PRETTY RESTRICTIVE, SOUNDS LIKE THEY'VE KIND OF DOTTED ALL THE I'S AND CROSSED ALL THE T'S ON THAT. THE QUESTION I'VE GOT IS, FOR SO LONG WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT ARE

WE GOING TO DO TO BOOST THE ECONOMY IN NEW MEXICO, AND THIS SEEMS LIKE A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE FOR AN AREA OF THE STATE THAT IS REALLY STRUGGLING. NOW, I KNOW THAT THERE ARE CONCERNS. THERE ARE CONCERNS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. BUT I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY LOOK TO COLORADO AS A GOOD MODEL, BECAUSE JOHN HICKENLOOPER, A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, JUST THIS PAST YEAR WAS ABLE TO HAMMER OUT AN AGREEMENT IN WHICH THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND THE INDUSTRY WAS ABLE TO WORK OUT A GOOD AGREEMENT THAT EVERYONE COULD AGREE UPON ABOUT FRACKING. I THINK THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN EITHER/OR POSSIBILITY, THAT YOU'VE GOT A DRILL IN YOUR BACKYARD OR NOTHING AT ALL. >> RIGHT. AND HE GOT SWEPT BACK IN OFFICE, SO HE MADE IT WORK SOMEHOW. >> I DON'T KNOW IF HE GOT SWEPT BACK IN OFFICE. HE KIND OF LIMPED BACK IN THERE. BUT THEY DID HAVE A PRETTY 43 WELL-REASONED COMPROMISE IN COLORADO, AND I HOPE THAT NEW MEXICO CAN TAKE THE SAME TACTIC. >> ROB BRINGS A POINT

UP, TOM, THE LEADERSHIP ABOUT THIS ISSUE IN THE OVERALL. WE DON'T HEAR -- THE COUNTIES ARE LEFT TO SORT OF FIGHT IT ON THEIR OWN. NO ONE HAS REALLY KIND OF STEPPED OUT THERE, AND I'M SAYING THE GOVERNOR, THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH OIL AND GAS, ABOUT THIS. DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? THERE HASN'T BEEN AN OVERALL VOICE, LIKE A HIKENLOOPER. >> YEAH, AND I HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT UNTIL ROB HAD MENTIONED IT. BUT, YEAH, IF THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT THE GOVERNOR SEES AS PERTINENT, IT IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE GOVERNOR TO GET INVOLVED AND TO BE SEEN AS THAT PERSON WHO BRINGS ALL SIDES TO THE TABLE. >> WHERE DO THE POLITICS STEP IN NOW THAT WE HAVE A NEW MAKE-UP IN THE HOUSE AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS? >> THERE'S POLITICS, AND THEN THERE'S NORTHERN NEW MEXICO POLITICS. THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE A REALLY EFFECTIVE JOB -- GOOD, BAD OR OTHERWISE IS DEBATABLE -- BUT HAS DONE AN EFFECTIVE JOB OF MAKING AN INFLUENCE AND IMPACT IN THE FOUR NORTHERN COUNTIES. SPECIFICALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT RIO ARRIBA COUNTY, SAN MIGUEL AND MORA COUNTY, THESE ARE PLACES THAT HAVE LONG BEEN STRONGHOLDS 44 AGAINST OIL

AND GAS DRILLING OF ANY KIND. SO THE MAKE-UP, THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKE-UP HAS NOT CHANGED THERE. WHAT HAS CHANGED, THOUGH, IS THE PUBLIC CONVERSATION OF QUALITY OF LIFE, AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE THE REAL CONFLICT IS, AS INEZ BROUGHT IN, THAT YOU HAVE VERY SUCCESSFUL OIL FIELD FAMILIES, OIL WELL WORKERS FROM THE SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE WHO ARE TRYING TO IMPOSE THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE ON A STANDARD WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT IN MORA COUNTY, SAN MIGUEL COUNTY, RIO ARRIBA. SO I THINK FINDING THAT COMPROMISE IS KEY, AND MAYBE THE GOVERNOR, IF IT WAS SOMETHING SHE WANTED TO DO, COULD STEP IN AND START MEDIATING THIS WHOLE ISSUE. >> SURE, BECAUSE THE JOBS THING, SOPHIE, CAN'T BE IGNORED, WHAT ROB MENTIONED. THERE'S NO OTHER INDUSTRY THAT I CAN THINK OF WHERE THE MONEY FLOW REALLY TURNS ON THAT QUICKLY AS OIL AND GAS. >> IT CERTAINLY DOES, AND WE DO SEE THAT THROUGHOUT THE STATE. BUT I THINK BOTH INEZ AND TOM HAVE RAISED A REALLY INTERESTING AND GOOD POINT, WHICH IS THAT WE ARE IN A PLACE WHERE WE'RE REALLY HAVING NOT JUST A NATIONAL, BUT A GLOBAL CONVERSATION

ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND ABOUT QUALITY OF LIFE. WE SEE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE VERY DAMAGED BY WHAT'S HAPPENED AT THE HANDS OF 45 INDUSTRY, UNFORTUNATELY, AND SOMETIMES AT THE HANDS OF GOVERNMENT, AND THERE IS THIS SORT OF DAVID AND GOLIATH, THIS BEAUTIFUL MOMENT, I THINK, THAT'S HAPPENING WHERE THIS COMMUNITY IS SAYING, WE'VE THOUGHT THROUGH WHAT WE VALUE, AND WE WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT. NOW, THE BIGGER QUESTION, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT JUDGE BROWNING, WHO IS RULING ON THIS ISSUE RIGHT NOW, IS GOING TO HAVE TO BALANCE, IS THERE A PRECEDENT? IS THERE A WAY THAT THIS CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN FOR THIS COMMUNITY, OR DO THEY HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER ROUTE? HAVE WE GONE SO FAR WITH OUR, I THINK, PROTECTION OF BUSINESS INTERESTS THAT WE CAN'T BALANCE THOSE AGAINST THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH FOR THE JUDGE TO RULE

IN FAVOR OF THE COMMUNITY. >> INTERESTING. NOW, THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, BUT WE'LL HAVE MORE TOPICS OF THE WEEK WHEN WE GO 'ON THE CLOCK' ON THE WEB. >> FOR MORE NEWS OF THE WEEK, ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS, AND OFTEN OTHER BONUS MATERIAL, HEAD TO OUR WEBSITE AT NewMexicoInFocus.org. FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER BY SEARCHING NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. AND AS ALWAYS, ALL OF US HERE AT NEW MEXICO InFOCUS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. 46 I'M GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT