OutCasting; Gay parenting (Part 1 of 2)

[Blau] We have found communities that have embraced us with all kinds of queer people and straight people -- families that have come together in all kinds of ways affords our son the opportunity to the see and feel and touch and learn from people who look like him, people who don't look like him, people who have similar stories to him, people whose stories he could have never imagined before. [Sarah] This is OutCasting, public radio's LGBTQ youth program, where you don't have to be queer to be here. OutCasting is a production of Media for the Public Good, a listener-supported independent producer based in New York online at outcastingmedia.org. Hi, I'm Sarah. On this edition of OutCasting, OutCaster Jamie speaks with LGBTQ activist and consultant Gabriel Blau about his experience as a gay parent. Gabriel talks about growing up gay and shares his experiences with adoption. He also discusses the importance and privilege of finding the right community in which to make his life. This is the first in an OutCasting series on gay parenting. [Jamie] Gabriel, in the interest of disclosure we should mention that you're a member

of our advisory council. So thanks for that, and welcome to OutCasting. [Blau] Thank you so much for having me. [Jamie] Has your family been supportive of you, both as a gay man and as a gay parent? [Blau] Yeah, I've been very lucky. I grew up with pretty progressive family and community, and while I struggled in a variety of ways, personally and certainly experienced homophobia in a variety of ways, growing up in the '80s and '90s, my family did accept me. And has been there with me all along. That of course is not the experience of so many LGBTQI people in this country. But for me, my family has really been an important part of my journey. [Jamie] What kind of homophobia did you experience as you were growing up? [Blau] You know, homophobia takes a lot of different forms. And I think for me, the persistent and latent form were very difficult to decode and stuck with me for a long time. Watching the

news as a child of the '80s where gay people were only talked about as sick and dying and as [?] and as pedophiles. Something that has taken me a long time to get over because it was just part of the world [?] being taunted and called names by classmates Constant use of 'gay' and 'queer' as a slur. It created an environment in which I didn't want to be out, in which I didn't want to be gay, in which I didn't want to be me. And that's difficult for any person to deal with. Being bullied or beat up by other kids because they just knew I was different. Those are things that are too common and remain too common in schools and among our youth. [Jamie] Why do you think some people believe that homosexual people shouldn't have or raise children? [Blau] There's a long history of defending, defining, and fighting for what is-- what constitutes

a family. It dates back really well before this country was founded, well before modern times. All faith, traditions that I'm aware of, have taken upon themselves to define family in a variety of ways. And the importance of defining family cannot be overstated in many ways. Because how we define family impact, today for example, a lot of who's responsible for who. And who gets access and privilege in relation to who else. I think a lot of people are scared when they see what they're used to as family being redefined, or what they see as redefinition, because it threatens what they understand the world to be like. What they think the world is supposed to be like. I think change is scary for people. But my being a parent doesn't really impact other people's [?] to be a parent.

wonder is it that someone would care for children so me with our child, how it would impact their own child, their family. By seeing us in the street, seeing us in the playground, in our schools they are forced to accept that what their family looks like isn't the only model, the only picture of what a family can look like. And what they believe, and what their faith tradition or social communal traditions have held up as family just aren't the only model. The truth is, we've seen this bear out in research over and over again that when people see families like mine when they see us in action they begin to understand they see more commonality than differences. They don't feel so threatened. When they see us take care of our child, they realize that we are doing exactly what they are doing. when they see our child look to us for

security, for comfort, they see what their children do and they begin to just understand us the way they understand their own family. That's been born out over and over again in research that is critical to achieving much of the equality we've achieved legally We used to think that in order to achieve equality for lgbtqi people we had to not show lgbtqi people and their families. We had to show our parents our friends our allies talking about us, these third party validators, and it was effective, but it was not as effective as we needed it to be. And so despite our own market research and you know trying to strategize, we started showing our family and it turned out that it was far more effective. That when people saw they couldn't hit us, they couldn't discriminate against us. Now, all too often we know people discriminates against us anyway and that is really painful. When somebody who doesn't know lgbtqi

people, doesn't believe in my equality, well that's painful, but I know that once they see me they'll understand that I'm just a person and we're just a family. But when lawmakers who have seen us, who have experienced our family and our friendships and our communities, who have watched us and know better and know the data. When they fight against us that is really scary to me, because they know that we are just people. And science is also on our side in that case. Scientists show over and over and over again that children raised by gay and lesbian and trans parents are just as likely to be successful in life by a variety of measures as children raised by straight parents. The majority of children in this country are not raised by married heterosexual parents who are their biological parents without any kind of medical interventions or that they are still married or you know this idea of what family is actually is the minority experience of America's children and we as

lgbtqi-headed families are really part of a very vibrant mosaic of American families - families that support each other in all kinds of ways, that come together in all kinds of ways, that are married or not married that are based on kinship families, and adopted families and surrogacy and had to use medical intervention children who are brought up by one parent, children who lost a parent, children whose parents are divorced. We've seen all kinds of families succeed. But we do know that the one thing they need in order to succeed is consistency, and we cannot expect America's families to provide that kind of consistency and support to their children if we're not providing our support of government entities as organizations. We as a country need to support families. We have to take care of parents so that they can take care of their children, and that's true no matter what sexuality or gender identity those parents or their children have.

[Jamie] So talking about your family I know that you have adopted a child. How is that process for you? [Blau] Our family came together in two thousand and eight, and for us, the process of adopting was incredibly organic and meaningful. It's hard to imagine - I've had this conversation with lots of parents and with children who have come together in all kinds of ways that whatever process they chose was an organic, meant to be kind of process, where it's hard to imagine their family coming together in any other way or being a family in any other way. It's hard to imagine our son not being our son, and it's hard to imagine not being his parents. We chose that adoption early on when we'd known each other before we were even ready to have children. And it was a process that happened a lot faster than we expected it to. Adoption sometimes takes

only a few months, and sometimes it takes years. For us it was just a few months and the result was just perfect. I really have no other way of saying it. I think one of the things that's interesting is that when we became a family and adopted we, like many lgbtqi parents who adopted that we know saw ourselves as part of the lgbtqi community and our experience as adoptive parents was kind of a secondary identity. But as time has gone on, and our child has grown, our family has continued to explore ourselves as a family we've seen ourselves more and more as part of the adoptive community - this very diverse, wide ranging community in America that has chosen adoption as the way they create family. And that's in part because when you adopt - really no matter how you have your children - you have to think about what impact that process has on your child and on your family as a whole. And so whether you use surrogacy

or donated sperm or adoption or foster care. There are these communities out there, of all kinds of people, rich and poor, lgbtqi and straight who have been there and have experience and share experiences and talk about what it's like and what it could be like, and it's not just about the parents, it's about the youth and what they need. And every family is unique, but there's so much to be learned and I think this is really one of the amazing things about being part of both of these communities, because we span the experiences. It's very common for lgbtqi-headed families to be seen as lgbtqi first, but those experiences as marginalized parents really meld into the background when you have a family and you are worried about your children, because that's what all parents do we only worry about that's all we care about. And so discovering and becoming part of these other communities is so vital, and also helps break down these

misconceptions or fears or barriers that exist around families like ours because these other people that we're meeting, these communities, they see us as a fellow sojourner on this adoption journey, on this family journey and they recognize that we may look different, but they also look different from what other families look like, and we have this bond, this decision that we've made to build our families in this way. So for us, it's always what we've wanted, it's what we did and it's created a family that i can never imagine not existing. I think the greatest misconception though that people who don't adopt, have that adoption is somehow less magical or something. It is as organic feeling a process as any can be. It has it's own twists and turns and uniqueness and it happens in it's own way every time, and so the end result is is one that just feels completely unique and meant to be. [Jamie] Has your local community been accepting?

[Blau] We are so Lucky to live in a place where we are accepted and embraced and where we are not the only adoptive family, we're not the only multi-racial family, we're not the only lgbtqi-headed family. We have just tremendous diversity where we live. And that's luck and some decisions we've been able to make so much of the discrimination that people experience in America and all over the world is really about where you are born and what kind of family you're born into. But we're lucky to have been born and get to stay around New York City and to have the kind of privilege that has enabled us to stay here and grow our lives because we have found communities that just embrace us. We belong to an amazing a synagogue, Fortran? Jewish Community Center in Washington Heights that is just a diverse wonderful community with all kinds of queer people and

straight people families that have come together in all kinds of ways. Other multi-racial families, other adoptive families, families who've used surrogacy, single-parent families, dual-parent families - and all kinds. We have a school community where our son goes to school that is tremendously diverse where families come from everywhere and are of all shapes and sizes, a tremendous immigrant community - documented and undocumented - that have become part of our universe and we part of theirs. And our neighborhood in general is tremendously diverse so we're really just so lucky, and it really mattered, it's hard to imagine living in a place that isn't diverse, because it doesn't just add to our lives in a sort of special extra way - it is a vital part of our lives. it is what enables us to see the world the way we do, it's what enables us to feel supported the way we do. It affords our son the opportunity to

see and feel and touch and learn from people who look like him, people who don't look like him, people who have similare stories to his, people whose stories he could never have imagined otherwise, and it's a richness that is absolutely a privilege but it's also vital to how we are in the world. [Jamie] This is OutCasting, Public Radio's LGBTQ Youth Program, produced by Media for the Public Good in New York online at Outcastingmedia.org. On this edition OutCaster, Jamie is talking with activist Gabriel Blau about gay parenting. [Jamie] You seem to be very lucky in where you live in your community but they're also as you know a lot of other people who live in not so diverse areas, areas that aren't so accepting. Do you know anything about that kind of experience as well? [Blau] I've been very lucky, in life that I've got to spend most of my career working for equality and justice and most of it for equality

and justice for lgbtq people and families, and it's taken me around the country I've gotten to visit all families and all kinds of communities. I've had the opportunity to speak with and meet with people who come from all kinds of experiences. The truth is in America, children of lgbtqi parents and lgbtqi people of all ages experience discrimination in all kinds of ways and experience it consistently and at rates that are far higher than most people imagine. Still more than forty percent of our youth experience some kind of bullying in school. There are constantly stories about our trans community being harassed and murdered, especially trans women of color and arguably the most marginalized community in America. We have tremendous disparities based on the colors of our skin, based on our economic status and just where we were

born and where we grew up. I think what's interesting is that there was this idea that we all had and that we still all hold on to because there's such promise here that the internet would eliminate these differences. It so clearly has not. I pass by the George Washington Bridge on a daily basis and look at it, and I'm reminded every day about [Tyler Clemente] who was just over in New Jersey, and we have this notion that if you're close to a place like New York, or if you're in a metropolitan area you feel supported and you're an lgbtqi-friendly environment. He was just over, just over the bridge and came to this bridge half way to New York City and killed himself. He took his life because he couldn't see a world in which he could be happy. And suicide is a result of mental illness in certain ways, I don't want to overstate my expertise in it, but we know

that the world around us contributes to our sense of our own ability to live in it, and the bullying and harassment we experience really impacts how we imagine ourselves existing. So when I think of Tyler and I think of stories like his I think we have so much work to do so much outreach we have to do to create safe, secured, support communities wherever people are. It's not enough to be close to a metropolitan area. People in New York City, youth in New York City don't feel safe. [?Flag NYC] one of our great organizations if you're in NYC still searched thousands of people every year because right here in New York City families feel harassed or bullied or unsupported. On the other hand, I know families who have chosen to move back to Alabama, for example, so that their lesbian (I know more than one family) lesbian couples who moved back to Alabama so that their kids could experience some of the great aspects of

life in Alabama. This is a state that passed a law to allow adoption agencies to discriminate against lgbtqi people because for some reason they think the faith of the people who work in an adoption agency should take priority over the needs of their state's children. So the complicated tapestry. I know so many people who live in places where they on one hand can tell you horror stories, and on the other hand can't imagine living anywhere else, and so many people who would live somewhere else and can't, because we don't live in a country in which most people are easily mobile. This is one of the things that's so interesting about the lgbtqi community. We are born of every color, every religion, or non, every economic status, every demographic you can imagine. We are born into it and we are born in every place and every corner of the earth. And it is through that, and the experiences we gain that we then

walk in the world can impact the world. The lgbtqi community and specifically the lgbtqi family community is the most diverse community that has ever existed. Lgbtqi-headed families are more likely to be multi-racial couples and way more likely to be multi-racial a multi-racial family, parents and children. They come from everywhere and then they come together and they share those experiences and they form a new family, in a new community. The impact that this can have on our country is just tremendous. It is the impact that identity and experience coming together to raise the next generation. It's really immeasurable, we've already seen these youth grow up to be these incredible ambassadors not that it should be their job, so many of them have chosen to do this because they come

from diversity, they come from unique experiences, and yet so many of them say that they don't feel like their experience is so unique, and that in of itself, is a message that it was changing communities, because these youth stand up and say, you know what, I am a child who doesn't look like my parents, we all have different color skin, my parents are both queer, I'm adopted, my sister is through a surrogate. They have these stories that we used to call these crazy stories. They're not crazy, and they say, and you know what, i grew up in school. And maybe they have some stories of harassment, and maybe they even have some horror stories. But most of the time they say, well I grew up in school where I was just one of the kids. And families that had a problem with us, they quickly learned that they had aot either keep it to themselves or that there's no reason to have a problem with us. And I heard these stories over and over and over again as I've gone around the country and I've spoken with people and it's just

a tremendous thing to watch people tell their own stories and to watch audiences hear these stories and realize that there is hope, that there is a way out, that there's a way towards acceptance and support for lgbtqi people and lgbtqi families that comes not just from advocacy, which we need, right, because Alabama, we have Nebraska we just won a case, thank goodness against a discriminatory bill in Texas. We have this new anti-trans bill. you all know what's happening in North Carolina and Indiana. These are all things that are happening now. We need to advocate, but it is that everywhere that is ultimately changing hearts and minds in a truly magnificent way. [Jamie] From your perspective, are there any differences between your family and a straight family? [Blau] Every family's different, right, but I think the important ways

no. Every family has to figure out their story and overcome their own hurdles, whatever they may be. Every family is unique. So we, as an lgbtqi-headed family, as an adoptive family, as a multi-racial family, as a family who lives in New York, as a middle class family, you know we have to contend with all of those things and whatever ways they impact us, but every family does, so I don't think, I don't think there's such differences that are what people assume would be, you know, straight families are like this and gay families are like that. I do think that like with all families, our experience helps us see the world in different ways and being part of a multi-racial family has pushed me to see the world in ways that, frankly, I probably wouldn't have or wouldn't have thought to really explore and dedicate myself to, and I'm certainly grateful that. [Jamie] What advice would you give to other gay couples with children?

[Blau] Breathe. I always, I get this question a lot and I actually wrote for a book on gay parenting, they asked me to write the epilogue and I read through all the stories that were in this book and ultimately my message is to breathe. Breathe and let it be. Explore, come to a decision on how you're going to become a family. There are lots of ways. All of us can be families, but whatever you choose, make it yours. It's going to be exciting and it's going to be difficult. It's going to be challenging and it's going to be incredible and life changing. Now there are some specific things that lgbtqi parents need to worry about. There are legal implications. You should always work with professionals who have real experience with lgbtqi families and lgbtqi law. They work with attorneys and doctors and adoption agencies and foster

agencies that know how to support the family. Do your research, know your rights. Be ready with the information. Keep your documents on you. We live in a world where it is far from certain that our families are accepted and protected. So there's some basic things like that. But overall just breathe, breathe into it. Allow yourself to experience because every family's experience is different. I know families whose children were-- where nurses, social workers tried to separate children from their intended parents in the hospital when the children were born and I know other families that have never knowingly experienced any kind of discrimination. And I know families who have experienced both of those, both in the deep south and families who are used to all kinds of discrimination in their lives because of the color of their skin or of their religion, and didn't experience this

when creating their family and vice versa. So whatever you experience, it's going to become the unique story of your family. Knowing your rights, working with people who are culturally competent, that's going to be key to surviving. But accept that experience and know that it's going to make your life and your children's lives that much richer. [Jamie] This has been a great conversation, Gabriel. Thanks so much for joining us. [Blau] Thank you, it's been a pleasure. [outtro] That's it for this edition of OutCasting, Public Radio's lgbtq youth program where you don't have to be queer to be here. This program has been produced by the OutCasting team, including new participants Alex, Samantha, Andrea, Max, Quinn, Dhruv, Rico, Warren, Dante, Lucas, Jamie, and me, Sarah. Our assistant producers are Alex Minz and Josh Valley, and our executive producer is Marc Sophos. OutCasting is a production of Media for the Public Good, a listener-supported, independent producer based in New York. More information about OutCasting is available at OutCastingmedia.org.

You'll find information about the show, listen links for all OutCasting episodes, and the podcast link. OutCasting is also on social media. Connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube at OutCasting Media. If you're having trouble, whether it's at home or school or just with yourself call the Trevor Project hotline at 866-488-7386 or visit them online at thetrevorproject.org. The Trevor project is an organization dedicated to lgbtq youth suicide prevention. Call them if you have a problem. They even have an online chat you can use if you don't want to talk on the phone. Being different isn't a reason to hate or hurt yourself. I'll say it one more time: 866-488-7386 or online at thetrevorproject.org. You can also find a link on our site: outcastingmedia.org under OutCasting lgbtq resources. I'm Sarah, thanks for listening.