At Week's End; 423; New Mexico Women Legislators

I don't know, I ask my husband, oh I see you're a state senator and he'll say no my wife is and the conversation drops. I don't believe that we have enough women in their legislature to really give a true representation of the population of the women in the state. Once upon a time there was a land in which a very important group of people constituted over 50% of the population. Yet those people held only 15% or less of the elected offices. They often face difficulty and discrimination in running for public office and even in governing once they were elected. It doesn't sound very democratic does it. This of course is no fairy tale. The land is New Mexico and America in 1991 and the underrepresented group is American and New Mexican women. Join us now for a searching discussion of the problems and promise of women in politics.

But first this background report by Mickey Adelman and Dana van Tilborg. Well I feel like the state legislature and the various districts that the individual senators and representatives do represent their district. We have several Native Americans, we have several Hispanic and I think that the state is a little reluctant to elect a woman governor. I think we're many years away on that or even a woman lieutenant governor. But as far as the representation I think that it is real fair. I believe that the legislative body that we have now which is supposed to be a citizens legislature reflects mostly the people that can afford to get away from their jobs or businesses to be here. It's very difficult for someone like me who is a school teacher to be here during the legislative session and a lot of people stay away from the legislature because of something like that. Financially I feel that women have a harder time raising money. When I first went into to run my first time I was a pointy and I had to put quite a bit of my own money in.

But the last two times that I ran I raised over 22,000 which was as much money as any of the guys yet. People feel that women can't think. So women have to try harder and prove themselves before they can be elected into office. And once they're in being in the legislature that is dominated by males you also have to do the same thing. People perceive us as being more trustworthy that we work harder and have better attendance and that we don't adhere to the stress appeal. We don't drink as much. We take better care of ourselves and we're used to doing many things at one time. Is that our opportunity when I close I'd like to say a few more words by me. Well I think in the Hispanic societies especially the women are kind of held back and they have a hard time. They have mentioned to me that the women Hispanics have said it's more difficult for them to deal with male Hispanics.

Whereas as an Anglo I don't have that barrier. And I think that the Native Americans they honor their women and that they're used to having them as leaders. So it's quite natural for them to step in and I think I would look for someone. It's very difficult for a woman to get ahead in the legislature and I consider I'm a pretty a sort of person who are aggressive. I've been called pushy but I'm the only woman in the legislature in the house that has either a chairmanship or a vice-chairmanship. And I think it's because I am a sort of and have really worked hard to get there. The women that are up here do not have small children. I think that makes a big difference. And I know that my youngest son was a senior when I came in and he really missed me that year because I was gone. And I think I would have to think twice if I had young children where to set my priorities.

Because I would be worrying about my home and not be able to concentrate on the legislation. I don't believe that we have enough women in the legislature to really give a true representation of the population of the women in the state. And I would like to see them become more involved in the activities of the state and become actively involved in politics. I think that a lot of times the women in the past have helped elect people but they never really considered themselves as a candidate. And I think they have to have to view, hey, I can do that. I can do a good job. Joining me now are four of New Mexico's relatively few women politicians all from Bernalillo County. Representative Lynn Titler is a fifth-term Republican in the House. Senator Janice Pastor is a first-term Democrat in the Senate. Republican Patricia Baca is a fourth-term representative in the House.

And Representative Dennis Picro is a first-term Democrat. Welcome members of the of the minority, of the gender minority. Four women state senators out of 42, 11 women representatives out of 70. Something is rotten if not in Denmark, in New Mexico and points north and south. Tell me Lynn Titler, what kind of barriers did you face as a woman getting into politics? You're in your fifth term, but wasn't it tough getting started in terms of campaign funding and breaking into this very male-dominated profession? It was a little bit. As I campaigned door-to-door people would say, oh, you're running for the legislature? I was the first woman to run in that district. My editorial board interview with an unnamed newspaper in town, the editor, well, what does your husband and children think about you going away? I said, I don't know, I don't have any. You got some interesting kind of feedback, but overall barriers, I didn't really find that many. I was determined I was going to win. I did one re-election handily.

Is there a male lock on money in politics? Do women candidates have a tougher job getting campaign contributions? I think you might say that's true at the outset. A woman candidate doesn't think of going to some of the sources that a male candidate will go to automatically. But once you get started and you get some advice from those who are in office, you find those sources pretty quickly. The other thing is that I would prefer to run a campaign based as much as I possibly can on the small contributions of people who believe in the issues that I support. And it takes a little extra effort to go out and raise that kind of money, but I think every candidate, whether it's a woman or a man, should make that effort to rely on the smaller individual contributions rather than the large contributions. Patricia Bakker, is there a bias against voting for women in American society? Do we still think at the end of the 20th century that women are somehow not qualified to hold public office? Should not be given power?

Well, I don't think that that's really true because I think in fact that a lot of women out there really get together and go to the polls and vote if they have a favorite woman candidate. But I think the bias is still in attracting the candidates because they still think that the male is going to be able to come out on top. I think that's where the main problem is. So you're starting from behind, is it work? Well, I remember that my opponent was a man and he was an incumbent and the comments that were made was, it's not because she beat me because she's a Republican, it's because she's a woman and she beat me. And those were his exact words. No sympathy votes for Republicans, just for female Republicans. Dennis Picro, she raises a very interesting issue, the power of the incumbency, which is a non-gender problem. I mean, male challengers have difficulty with incumbents just as female challengers, but is it a special problem for a woman breaking into politics? I mean, you've got the entrenched authority there and the gender problem.

My primary campaign was against man, as my general election was, but this man had once been a legislator, had not been a legislator for years, and tried to run to some extent with the authority of incumbency. And what I ran up against was the fact that I was, or how could a little lady like you, I'm five, four, he's over six feet, whatever, challenging, physical size versus five, four, you know, hundred pound weakling here. And there was definitely a stereotype to overcome, which obviously I was able to do, but you had to take this with some degree of grace and keep going, but it's real. Speaking of grace, are there strategies that women can follow to overcome this kind of electoral deficit that you're all describing? You were giving advice to a young woman out there in the audience who wanted to get into politics. Is there something you can do to combat this ridiculous kind of physical and gender?

You don't ever allow someone else to create a box for you and put you in it, whether you're a female, a new time candidate, male, regardless of what your experience is. Don't let anyone else create the box and put you into it, and as soon as they try to put you in it, you either bite their hand or jump out. Don't accept the stereotype yourself. I don't think that you should allow what they think are stereotype, female emotions to come out. In other words, I would never cry on the floor of the house if it was the last thing that ever... I don't care how upset I was. You cannot let your female emotions come out because they are, you're considered the same as they are, you have the same voters they do, and to have the respect you have to act like they do. I must say some of the things that I've seen men do on the floor of the house would make me cry. I'm not sure I want to act always as they act.

Much of those role models. Let me ask you about being in the legislature. Let's say you get past this huge and difficult hurdle of being who you are and getting elected in New Mexico. Here you are confronted with what is a classic, it seems to me, good ol' boy system, a system of patronage and favoritism and nepotism often. Not only in political parties and in the machine, the legendary Democratic machine, Northern New Mexico, but in the seniority system, the committee system of the legislature. How difficult is that, Janice, to break into? Difficult and it's not difficult. I came in with a group of senators, nine of us were newly elected Democrats, and a number of us got immediate appointments that people in the house may lust after for many years. I'm the vice chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and I also have chaired an interim committee health and human services. But on the other hand, those people who have been there know the system, and they have good advice to give, and they are properly in the leadership positions.

They know the problems that will arise, they have the ability to anticipate so that the session runs smoothly. So it's not necessarily wrong that people who have been there have developed power and authority. It may be used improperly, but it may be used properly also. Of course, that can be true of a freshman male representative who can run into that to the machine or to the good ol' boy system, just as blatantly. Are you taken seriously by your male colleagues, or do you have to pass some kind of special litmus test to show that you're real here? Well, I think that they definitely test you, but it depends on how you come out of the situation as to how they feel about you. I feel that most of them in over there respect me, and the stands that I've taken. They know that I'm not going to lie to them, I don't lie. But is there a special problem in New Mexico?

We know we live in a society which has a Hispanic heritage, and there is this problem of Makismo, which is exhibited in so many ways. Do you run into that in New Mexican politics? I think it depends on how you treat it. If you go in acting like you expect to be put down or to be passed over, you probably will be. I think I went in with the attitude, I'm going to do my homework, I'm going to do the very best job I possibly can do. And if I come forth on an issue, it's because I believe in it, I believe strongly. I will have done what I needed to do to know that issue completely. And very early on made it clear that that's how I would approach every issue. And I think as a result I ran into less of that than I might have if I had come in very in a timid manner. Timid just isn't part of my vocabulary again. I'm the first term you see, and so it's a new world for me. And I would pick and choose my issues, so I would know what I was talking about.

And I am on house appropriations and finance, we do the budgets. And when the secretary of a department, instead of looking at me and answering my question, try to put my question down as unimportant as he turned to face the chair. And then when I brought it back, he interrupted me. You know, I just had to play the game there, and I interrupted him, sir, and asked my question. And I honestly believe that's because I was a woman. I did not see him behave that way to any other member they are asking questions at the time. We had had several days of this department, so it wasn't the first time he had seen me. He knew you belonged there. And I really was surprised at that, so I don't think he did it on purpose. I think it was just perhaps he wasn't used to dealing.

But also, you're spending 60 days with these individuals, and they are as different from you as night is from day. And the gender, in most cases, is different. They come from all over the state. In order to make this process work, you have to get to know these people very well, and you have to form friendships. I mean, you're going to shrivel up and die if you don't make some human associations with these individuals. So you find yourself with what might look like unlikely friendships at the outset, and it becomes a very natural situation. You get to know people very well. They're like part of your family. Since most of them are men, most of your friendships are with men that under most circumstances, based on age, ethnicity, district, whatever, they might not ordinarily be someone you would have made friends with and become close to. I guess it's not reasonable to assume that you'd encounter less sexism, less discrimination in a legislature. Then you would in the business world, or in the academic world, or in the world at large. But I'm wondering about the role modeling and leadership of political leaders.

Do you find that the leaders in the House and in the Senate, the governor, the lieutenant governor, the party leaders, in both parties, Republican and Democratic, in a sense set an example of non-discrimination against women, or make a point of emphasizing your equality. You're belonging there. I don't think you ought to generalize. I think some leaders do that very well, and others who want to keep you in your place, whether it's because of partisan politics or whatever, will find a way to use gender when it's convenient just as they might use anybody else's, quote, weak points. Is using gender for political purposes or using politics for gender purposes, as the case may be. Do you bring, any of you feel you bring a special sensibility, a special perception of public problems as a woman? Your experience is differ from those of men. You know there are cultural differences. There are differences in expectations in our society.

Do you bring a different outlook on public issues, Lynn Titler? I don't think I do, and I've gotten into some interesting discussions about this. I'm pretty determined to be as representative of my district as I can, as well as of the state. And I don't really focus on anything that is classically a woman's issue, although at various times I've focused on human services department health and environment that dealt with a lot of women and women's problems. But equally, I've been deeply involved in fiscal policy and budget, in law enforcement and other areas that are not traditionally women focused. I think I've done probably the least of that of any of us here at this table. Dennis, what's your experience? My district has majority women in it. And what I found when I went door to door that we all, male and female, had the same hopes and dreams. But when you started to talk about what their worries were in the next few years and all, you had much more sensitivity to the children and schools to old age.

And how we deal with the elderly, who are, again, majority women. And when I looked at some bills, which I was asked to co-sign, which is not a big deal actually, they came, I could sign them because they came right out of my district. And bills dealing with the elderly were in large measure because women had told me about them. So I do think there is a difference when you get down to the nitty gritty of their life. But on the overall, we are all concerned about the same thing. And if I bring a different perspective, it's because I have been the nurturer. And when I say education is important, I really mean it. And I mean it for everyone. And I mean good paying jobs for everyone and not stereotyping males into math and science and females into other jobs, which are not the same and don't pay as much and don't leave. Or when we talk about equal pay for equal work, when I see PhD chemist males earning more than equivalent PhD chemist females, when they enter, I say wait a second one is happening.

And I really do think that I am aware of these differences. More sensitive. Very sensitive. And it matters because your increases in pay are percentage. Do you find yourselves working with other women in the legislature in the sense of a kind of collective or caucus? I mean, minorities traditionally in American politics band together because they're so few in number. You've got a black caucus in the Congress that finds it's more politically effective to do that. Do you find that you can represent your own issues and the issues of your constituency better if you're together? No. Not as much as I'd like. There was an attempt in the House. I think it was four or six years ago. The first time since I had been there that the subject of a women's caucus was broached. And I very frankly discouraged it because I said first of all, if they sense that we are banding together, the majority males, they are going to feel real uncomfortable with that.

And second of all, I'd been up there for about four or five years and was working well within the system and didn't want to isolate myself in a separate group. I think we work more effectively in and among the bunch of them, if you will. But on the other hand, that isolates us because as women, I mean, it has to do with these kinds of relationships with our fellow legislators. As women, even though we have friendships with men, I don't go to the bullring and drink and some of the guys do that. Some of the guys will go out and play golf together on the weekends. It's not the sort of thing that you would do. So I think in some respects, being an elected woman can be isolating and lonely and having that contact with other women. I wish that we did have some common ground for a woman's caucus. And in addition to that, I want to say forcefully that I'm not going to go to Santa Fe and bury my concern about issues like maternal and child health because I'm afraid people will brand me as a woman concerned about women's issues.

It's like being at a banquet at a buffet table when you get up there and there's so many issues that are attractive. And I agree with Representative Titler. I'm interested in lots of things, capital outlay and tax policy and in the Judiciary Committee legal issues. But I am certainly not going to bury my concern for women's issues. And I would be very happy to see a women's caucus coming to some consensus about a program of women's issues that we ought to be considering. Patricia Baca, you've got kind of a double whammy here. You're a member of two minorities. You're a woman in a male-dominated legislature and you're a Republican. And the Republicans, as we know, didn't do all that well in the last election. Democrats control the House and the Senate, rather massive majorities. And I wouldn't there be any advantage in this kind of caucus that Janice is suggesting or is, is Lynn Wright that you suffer the problem of possible retaliation. Their caucus is going to be bigger than yours in any way you look at it. I think that for myself, it really is important to go across the lines and make friends on the other side of the aisle, so to speak, with the Democrats. But it's very important, I think. I made a point to establish relationships with the women.

Because, and I went over and I offered, you know, anything that I can be of help to you, I'll be glad to, because I think it's real important. I want the women to feel at ease and to feel that they can go forward and do what they have to do. And you do feel a kinship. I mean, you've had a similar experience. I really do. I feel a kinship with them and I feel like I can go talk to them at any time that I need to. But, you know, getting back to what the women's issues are. For instance, I feel like my issues have always been children. You know, I've always had legislation that deals with that. But I don't necessarily think that that means that I can't also deal with the so-called male issues that have to be dealt with. You know, I can be just as I have sat on the subcommittee for judicial for corrections for the past four years. You know, so I mean, I can see I've toured the prison, you know, I've been involved with that kind of.

Well, I think there's no question that you ought to be involved in those issues and that you can handle. And the reality, though, in American politics is that women are not really in the forefront. There are no women in the command of Operation Desert Storm. There are no women at the forefront of the budget deal when President Bush negotiated with the House and the Senate in Washington. There are no women making the crucial decisions on the waste isolation pilot project in New Mexico. A lot of issues local and national, which are still very much a male preserve. And I'm wondering what your feeling is, would policies and would reality, would politics be different if we had more even representation? Unless sexism in the political world, would our world be different? I think we could make better policy because you'd have a broader spectrum of the population represented in that key policy role. I sometimes think we'd do a little better at the negotiating table too, but I would like to see broader representation. And that's going to take time until more women move through the process.

There are more of us now in the state legislature than we had ever had when I first entered the legislature, New Mexico nationwide, until we get more women moving up through the ranks in the Congress, in the House of Representatives, the Senate, in the Cabinet. We aren't going to be included in those councils. Saudi Arabia is never going to be the same thing, Heavens. We've had women in the military over there, and I think it's going to change a lot of things in the Middle East, and I think for the better. At least you guys can drive cars to the sessions. The only way you can get there. Let me ask you about the record here. Do you think you've made a difference already in terms of what's been accomplished that this is a more responsive legislature because you're there? You're less than 15%, less than the national average, but you're more than you were 10 years ago. From my perspective as a freshman, I hope no freshman ever has to go through what I went through, because I came in in a coalition, and it was always, every vote was 36, 34, all the time. The pressure was on constantly. I took a hard stand for education. It may not have been the most popular one, but I did take it. It was very difficult going through that in your freshman year to be hitting the front page as less Houston called me a pitiful woman.

In the long run, I think it did me well, because my constituency is 50% Democrats and 50% Republicans, and yet I've had two terms where I've been unopposed. So obviously, the people are happy with how I'm representing. You feel you're doing something right now. And I hear from them quite often I do. We've only got a few seconds left. Tell me what we can do to begin to roll back this still obvious sexism in American life. What can we do to open up American politics to young women out there who can follow in your footsteps? You guys are the pioneers, Janice. You have to encourage those women and support them and get them to run.

We need to put an arm down and help lift them up and help them to get where we are, and we need the networks to do that. Men run just sort of naturally, but for us, in order to encourage young women into the process, we have to give them a helping hand. I think the role model, there's no substitute. We're here. We now have several women in the cabinet. We took a look at boards and commissions. The governor is appointing. It's better and better. Our time is up, but I'll let you guys be the role model. You've been wonderful this evening. Thank you very much, Lynn Tyler. Thank you, Janice Pastor, Patricia Baca, and Dennis Picro. And thank you for joining us for it weeks in. I'm Roger Morris. Thank you.