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<v Speaker>Annoyed with the times and so in so many other ways. <v Speaker>But you see in a guy like Kisner that the skills <v Speaker>of a police reporter. Right. Essentially applied to or just wondering which is or which <v Speaker>is what about. Well, when all good reporters are fundamentally and, you know, somebody is <v Speaker>willing to go out and get the story and actually talk to people and get both, you know, <v Speaker>three, four or five sides of the story. <v Speaker>I think what I do. <v Speaker>Sorry. <v Speaker>I think what Mr. Kiffin's is doing now is what Howard French finally started doing <v Speaker>after five years of reporting in Haiti. <v Speaker>He started going to the provinces and that's when he did his best reports. <v Speaker>Reports on Haiti. <v Speaker>I think it's also what Ray Bonner was doing in El Salvador. <v Speaker>You know that well. And recently in Rwanda. <v Speaker>Yeah. And well pass this along to John Kittner. <v Speaker>Well, actually, to be fair, I think Rick Bragg and Valerie Roter have <v Speaker>also been doing very well. OK. <v Speaker>Let's let let me get another call here.
<v Speaker>Let's see. Bob in Brooklyn. <v Speaker>Yes, hi. I have a media related question. <v Speaker>Did any of your panel know if there's any truth to the rumor that sort of <v Speaker>a through back channels? <v Speaker>The fix was in that the Carter team was basically going to Haiti <v Speaker>to just work out the details. And that's why President Clinton Clinton could be <v Speaker>so loose? <v Speaker>Well, they certainly stage managed it brilliantly. <v Speaker>If it was. Does anybody know anything about this that is on any of the nine? <v Speaker>I don't think that's really when he made his Thursday night speech. <v Speaker>I don't think the fix was in because he really didn't even get give Carter <v Speaker>the permission to go down there. <v Speaker>So then after that speech, Bernie, let me ask a question also of all the panelists, <v Speaker>but especially you, Bernie. Why did the Haitians know that <v Speaker>the planes had taken all? <v Speaker>And how come the story hasn't been reported out? <v Speaker>Because I don't think we know for sure that the story at the time, <v Speaker>the story at the time was that
<v Speaker>some American TV people. <v Speaker>This was a rumor that some American TV people tipped off by their <v Speaker>home offices that the planes had left told this somehow <v Speaker>to some Haitians. <v Speaker>I don't know if the Haitians have ability to monitor phone calls, whether they do that, <v Speaker>it's possible they might have heard it on a phone. <v Speaker>And that's interesting, because the way I heard it was that someone at Fort Bragg had <v Speaker>called the Haitian generals and told them that you have to keep in mind that at Fort <v Speaker>Bragg, where an awful lot of journalists, including perhaps some Haitian journalist, that <v Speaker>the government are surviving, I don't know the answer to that. <v Speaker>It's one thing we tried to find out and we couldn't get a solid enough story. <v Speaker>I mean, I would have thought that the Haitian generals, at the very least would have had <v Speaker>someone from their own national press, you know, at Fort Bragg looking over <v Speaker>the fence. <v Speaker> what I thought, what I thought interesting about that story was that the night <v Speaker>that Sunday night was just a week ago now when it happened. <v Speaker>The version that was put out by vise President Gore, who did most of the briefing
<v Speaker>to the journalists before the president's announcement was that they're <v Speaker>finding out about these planes taking off is what forced them to sign <v Speaker>the agreement. President Carter's version, of course, is completely different. <v Speaker>They heard about the planes taking off and they said we'll never sign an agreement. <v Speaker>And it was only when the president of Haiti, the president, whatever you call him, <v Speaker>said we're going to sign it, that they signed it. <v Speaker>And so, you know, you have two completely different versions of events. <v Speaker>Thank you very much, Bob, for your call. Marvin in New Jersey. <v Speaker>Hello. Marvin, are you on the line? <v Speaker>I guess we have lost Marvin Richard in Manhattan. <v Speaker>My question is, how do you know if the foreign correspondents are not embarrassing or <v Speaker>embroidering incentive, making a horrible situation more horrific for <v Speaker>the sake of drawing it, possibly winning a Pulitzer Prize? <v Speaker>For example, in Kuwait, I remember the reports came back that the Iraqis <v Speaker>were stealing wheelchairs, breaking into a hospital and taking children off
<v Speaker>iron lungs. And then later we found that that wasn't true. <v Speaker>Fully true. Now, I mean, I bought it for me today. <v Speaker>A reporter in Haiti over the flashing with a machete <v Speaker>of someone had said he was slashed and his eyes were gouged out. <v Speaker>Let me answer that from happening. <v Speaker>The answer, Mike, the answer. The question first. <v Speaker>The reports coming out of Kuwait were there were no eyewitness, <v Speaker>eyewitnesses, reporters weren't in Kuwait. <v Speaker>So they were subject to the unfortunately to this propaganda. <v Speaker>The Kuwaiti government and the United States government, aided by Hill and Knowlton. <v Speaker>And you're referring specifically, I know, to the baby incubator hoax, which never <v Speaker>happened. The babies being pulled from incubators in Haiti. <v Speaker>You got reporters on the ground actually able to go look <v Speaker>at what's being said or accused or whatever. <v Speaker>So many TV reporters in Haiti it is very unlikely for anybody to <v Speaker>to write a story and embellish it and get away gets away with it. <v Speaker>If you make it up and then you get found out you're not gonna get any Pulitzer Prize.
<v Speaker>I can tell you there are a lot of great competition is a great thing. <v Speaker>And by the way, it's one of the things that the pool system was established to eliminate <v Speaker>competition between reporters, the very healthy things, because the reporters can blow <v Speaker>the whistle on each other. Mr. Jones. <v Speaker>What, of Jean Pierre? <v Speaker>Yeah. One of my problems is, is perhaps the terms some <v Speaker>of the reporters and 80 or most of them, in fact, are using. <v Speaker>And it's just it's almost like someone is defining or perhaps not even defining <v Speaker>the term coming out with one term in it. <v Speaker>Everybody uses the same thing, Haitian on Haitian violence. <v Speaker>It again conjures up to most of us the the the <v Speaker>images of the black on black violence. <v Speaker>And it's it's really to me, it's it's it's there is an element of racism <v Speaker>in there, because we in South Africa, we rarely are white <v Speaker>on black violence. <v Speaker>So Asian on Asian violence, let's see.
<v Speaker>Clearly, the police in Haiti, they are the people with the gun. <v Speaker>So they are the ones oppressing the populace. <v Speaker>It's really clear. And and that sort of muddles things when we say Haitian <v Speaker>on Haitian violence, it should be police violence against civilians or army violence <v Speaker>against civilians. <v Speaker>Not Haitian on Haitian violence. <v Speaker>Yes. Bernie Gwertzman, let me ask you, while we're on the subject of <v Speaker>terms, what is this thing called now? <v Speaker>It was last week someone called it an invention or whatever in the world that is <v Speaker>intervention? not an intervention. They called it an invention. <v Speaker>I mean, the Latin roots. <v Speaker>But anyway. But it's somewhat different. <v Speaker>Meaning. <v Speaker>Okay. Well, thank you. We've got Marvin back now. <v Speaker>Richard, thank you for your call. <v Speaker>Marvin in New Jersey One thing I have noticed to offer a place I would like to mention <v Speaker>about FDR writing the Haitian constitution that is quite well known <v Speaker>is there's quite a bit of quite a few books on Haiti. <v Speaker>And they were match that. An excellent book on Haiti is called Written in Blood.
<v Speaker>It was by a U.S. Marine official. And down there in the Duvalier period <v Speaker>are written at Blood. But Haiti is such a let's say and off <v Speaker>the wall places, but a tremendous number of books written on it. <v Speaker>And you better read than I am. <v Speaker>And I read and I read a lot. And and I'm just saying that I'd like to see more <v Speaker>historical perspective. Well, I think he means, by the way, the quote from <v Speaker>Roosevelt was is from The New York Times in 1920 <v Speaker>so that you can check the clips. Why he that was. <v Speaker>And he said, the facts are that I wrote Haiti's constitution myself. <v Speaker>And if I do say it, I think it is a pretty good constitution. <v Speaker>Well, Haiti was a inci-, incidentally, was quite a racist state. <v Speaker>The they started with a Holocaust. Gasoline's proclaimed when he became the independents <v Speaker>of Haiti. A New Year's Day, 1804, Dunning's, he said. <v Speaker>What your what's your question mark? My question is this one thing I have noticed has <v Speaker>come out very hidden away how Clinton's friends have been benefiting
<v Speaker>from the funds of the Haitian government. <v Speaker>I'm The Wall Street Journal was about the only publication I've seen carying this, <v Speaker>the big money they've been making. <v Speaker>They had an article last November on this. <v Speaker>And who are you talking about is Michael Barnes, Michael Barnes, <v Speaker>former Maryland congressman, for example. <v Speaker>Michael Barnes was Clinton's campaign manager in a state of Maryland, even took him to <v Speaker>the Orioles game when Quinn was trying to show he's one water to people. <v Speaker>And Michael Barnes is making $55000 a month. <v Speaker>So they've been draining. Hey, she's been making it from what has always been a PR <v Speaker>lobbying. Well, I think it's all firm. <v Speaker>Do it. It's making 55000. Not him personally. <v Speaker>A lot. And they mentioned IRA Kurzban, whose wife was a Castro white candidate <v Speaker>for Congress, a Cuban woman. <v Speaker>And this has not been reported so well as he was EPR for the government or for <v Speaker>Burtraw. <v Speaker>IRA works for, I believe, the Haitian government. <v Speaker>Aristide was something that I would think he'd be rather unhappy with what's been going <v Speaker>on.
<v Speaker>But I mean, it seems to me, sir, that the press has been very amiss in <v Speaker>all this and not bringing up the reason most things happen is someone make some money on <v Speaker>it and the press should bring out the fact that young kids are going to die. <v Speaker>So politicians are going to get rich. <v Speaker>And, you know, it's it's a pretty heavy any wallet. <v Speaker>How would you res pond to that? <v Speaker>I think it's always wise to follow the money. And I would suggest that you follow the <v Speaker>money to the CIA report that defaming President Aristide, because that's where the money <v Speaker>went. The money went to firm called the Camp of Toba- <v Speaker>McCandless- McCandless. Yeah. Bob McCandless, Craig and Craig or whatever. <v Speaker>Greg Craig and- Greg Craig is a good friends of Clinton, too by the way, right? <v Speaker>Clinton has friends on both sides of this issue. <v Speaker>The two elite families funded the the campaign against <v Speaker>Aristide in an attempt to get the embargo lifted so you can follow the money on both <v Speaker>sides of this question. <v Speaker>Anyway, Bernie, have you been following the money trying to. <v Speaker>Well, we've reported, yeah. This is not a new story for us. <v Speaker>We've written a lot about the bonds, company bonds' whole relationship.
<v Speaker>One I think one of the weaknesses of Aristide during this whole period is he's really not <v Speaker>caught on yet to the American way of information. <v Speaker>And he he talks elliptically. <v Speaker>He always has spokesmen talking. I it does he could do a lot better for himself. <v Speaker>I'm reluctant to talk to the press because he has a certain <v Speaker>doubt about whether he's going to be properly reported. <v Speaker>Well he needs-. <v Speaker>But he needs to hire an American PR firm, right? <v Speaker>Well, he does have one that they're not doing such a great job. <v Speaker>But Amy élan, you should switch to Hill and Knowlton. <v Speaker>Let me ask in a very short time, we have left Bernie Gwertzman. <v Speaker>Do you see a lot of spin coming up now in the months ahead as the <v Speaker>administration tries to make whatever happens look like a success? <v Speaker>Well, it's going to be very tough administration. <v Speaker>How much they're going to try to build up said this. <v Speaker>One of the strange things of the past week was this love feast for a few days with <v Speaker>General said this. Now that this is changing, I don't know.
On the Media
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WNYC (Radio station : New York, N.Y.)
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The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia (Athens, Georgia)
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Episode Description
This is the September 25, 1994 episode of On the Media. The first hour features a panel discussion with Harper's Magazine publisher John R. "Rick" MacArthur; Bernard Gwertzman, foreign editor of the New York Times; Haitian journalist Jean Jean-Pierre; and author Amy Wilentz on the United States occupation of Haiti. The panelists also take calls from listeners. Reporter Carol Anne Clark Kelly reports on the Clinton administration's announcement of a policy shift regarding accepting Haitian refugees seeking asylum in the United States. The second hour features a panel discussion with Dr. Rodney W. Nichols, Dr. Daniel Koshland, Dr. Kevin Davies, and Larry Thompson on science reporting and science journals? representation within the mainstream press.
Series Description
"'On the Media', a live, two-hour interview and call-in program, broadcast on WNYC-AM, New York public radio, provides a distinct public service by examining the new media and their affect on American society. The series explores issues of a free press through discussions with journalists, media executives and media and social critics. "'On the Media' attempts to strengthen our democracy through discussions about the impact the decisions of editors and producers have on elections, legislation, public policy and the shaping of public opinion and attitudes. 'On the Media' also attempts to demystify the news media by explaining how journalists do their jobs, what criteria are used to determine a story's newworthiness [sic], and what controls the news outlets. "Each hour is discrete, with topics focusing on three basic areas: a review of media coverage of one of more current news stories; discussions of on-going issues that challenge journalists and affect the public; and behind-the-scenes information about now news operations-and journalists-work. "Topics have included issues of censorship and self-censorship, how sensationalism in the media detracts from coverage of important issues, discussions of ethics and careerism, women and minorities in the news, environmental reporting, how the health care debate was covered, and First Amendment issues (see enclosed program list). "The Richard Salant Room of the New Caanan, Connecticut, Public Library houses our entire library of tapes for research purposes. The series receives many requests for tapes for journalists, journalism teachers and the general public, and programs have been mentioned in the local and national press. For instance, Jim Gaines, managing editor of 'Time' magazine, participated in a segment,'Louis Farrakhan and the Press: How the News Media Cover a Controversial Organization' (February 13, 1994. [sic] referred to the discussion in an editorial. "Alex S. Jones, author and Pulitzer Prize-winning former media reports for 'The New York Times' is a series host. We are submitting six tapes (2 complete programs and 2 one-hour segments), a sample of letters from journalists, reprints of articles referring to the series, and a list of 1994 topics."--1994 Peabody Awards entry form.
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Producing Organization: WNYC (Radio station : New York, N.Y.)
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The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia
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Chicago: “On the Media; 1994-09-25,” 1994-06-19, The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 26, 2022,
MLA: “On the Media; 1994-09-25.” 1994-06-19. The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 26, 2022. <>.
APA: On the Media; 1994-09-25. Boston, MA: The Walter J. Brown Media Archives & Peabody Awards Collection at the University of Georgia, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from