On the Media; 1994-09-25

<v Speaker>Annoyed with the times and so in so many other ways. <v Speaker>But you see in a guy like Kisner that the skills <v Speaker>of a police reporter. Right. Essentially applied to or just wondering which is or which <v Speaker>is what about. Well, when all good reporters are fundamentally and, you know, somebody is <v Speaker>willing to go out and get the story and actually talk to people and get both, you know, <v Speaker>three, four or five sides of the story. <v Speaker>I think what I do. <v Speaker>Sorry. <v Speaker>I think what Mr. Kiffin's is doing now is what Howard French finally started doing <v Speaker>after five years of reporting in Haiti. <v Speaker>He started going to the provinces and that's when he did his best reports. <v Speaker>Reports on Haiti. <v Speaker>I think it's also what Ray Bonner was doing in El Salvador. <v Speaker>You know that well. And recently in Rwanda. <v Speaker>Yeah. And well pass this along to John Kittner. <v Speaker>Well, actually, to be fair, I think Rick Bragg and Valerie Roter have <v Speaker>also been doing very well. OK. <v Speaker>Let's let let me get another call here. <v Speaker>Let's see. Bob in Brooklyn.

<v Speaker>Yes, hi. I have a media related question. <v Speaker>Did any of your panel know if there's any truth to the rumor that sort of <v Speaker>a through back channels? <v Speaker>The fix was in that the Carter team was basically going to Haiti <v Speaker>to just work out the details. And that's why President Clinton Clinton could be <v Speaker>so loose? <v Speaker>Well, they certainly stage managed it brilliantly. <v Speaker>If it was. Does anybody know anything about this that is on any of the nine? <v Speaker>I don't think that's really when he made his Thursday night speech. <v Speaker>I don't think the fix was in because he really didn't even get give Carter <v Speaker>the permission to go down there. <v Speaker>So then after that speech, Bernie, let me ask a question also of all the panelists, <v Speaker>but especially you, Bernie. Why did the Haitians know that <v Speaker>the planes had taken all? <v Speaker>And how come the story hasn't been reported out? <v Speaker>Because I don't think we know for sure that the story at the time, <v Speaker>the story at the time was that <v Speaker>some American TV people.

<v Speaker>This was a rumor that some American TV people tipped off by their <v Speaker>home offices that the planes had left told this somehow <v Speaker>to some Haitians. <v Speaker>I don't know if the Haitians have ability to monitor phone calls, whether they do that, <v Speaker>it's possible they might have heard it on a phone. <v Speaker>And that's interesting, because the way I heard it was that someone at Fort Bragg had <v Speaker>called the Haitian generals and told them that you have to keep in mind that at Fort <v Speaker>Bragg, where an awful lot of journalists, including perhaps some Haitian journalist, that <v Speaker>the government are surviving, I don't know the answer to that. <v Speaker>It's one thing we tried to find out and we couldn't get a solid enough story. <v Speaker>I mean, I would have thought that the Haitian generals, at the very least would have had <v Speaker>someone from their own national press, you know, at Fort Bragg looking over <v Speaker>the fence. <v Speaker> what I thought, what I thought interesting about that story was that the night <v Speaker>that Sunday night was just a week ago now when it happened. <v Speaker>The version that was put out by vise President Gore, who did most of the briefing <v Speaker>to the journalists before the president's announcement was that they're

<v Speaker>finding out about these planes taking off is what forced them to sign <v Speaker>the agreement. President Carter's version, of course, is completely different. <v Speaker>They heard about the planes taking off and they said we'll never sign an agreement. <v Speaker>And it was only when the president of Haiti, the president, whatever you call him, <v Speaker>said we're going to sign it, that they signed it. <v Speaker>And so, you know, you have two completely different versions of events. <v Speaker>Thank you very much, Bob, for your call. Marvin in New Jersey. <v Speaker>Hello. Marvin, are you on the line? <v Speaker>I guess we have lost Marvin Richard in Manhattan. <v Speaker>My question is, how do you know if the foreign correspondents are not embarrassing or <v Speaker>embroidering incentive, making a horrible situation more horrific for <v Speaker>the sake of drawing it, possibly winning a Pulitzer Prize? <v Speaker>For example, in Kuwait, I remember the reports came back that the Iraqis <v Speaker>were stealing wheelchairs, breaking into a hospital and taking children off <v Speaker>iron lungs. And then later we found that that wasn't true.

<v Speaker>Fully true. Now, I mean, I bought it for me today. <v Speaker>A reporter in Haiti over the flashing with a machete <v Speaker>of someone had said he was slashed and his eyes were gouged out. <v Speaker>Let me answer that from happening. <v Speaker>The answer, Mike, the answer. The question first. <v Speaker>The reports coming out of Kuwait were there were no eyewitness, <v Speaker>eyewitnesses, reporters weren't in Kuwait. <v Speaker>So they were subject to the unfortunately to this propaganda. <v Speaker>The Kuwaiti government and the United States government, aided by Hill and Knowlton. <v Speaker>And you're referring specifically, I know, to the baby incubator hoax, which never <v Speaker>happened. The babies being pulled from incubators in Haiti. <v Speaker>You got reporters on the ground actually able to go look <v Speaker>at what's being said or accused or whatever. <v Speaker>So many TV reporters in Haiti it is very unlikely for anybody to <v Speaker>to write a story and embellish it and get away gets away with it. <v Speaker>If you make it up and then you get found out you're not gonna get any Pulitzer Prize. <v Speaker>I can tell you there are a lot of great competition is a great thing.

<v Speaker>And by the way, it's one of the things that the pool system was established to eliminate <v Speaker>competition between reporters, the very healthy things, because the reporters can blow <v Speaker>the whistle on each other. Mr. Jones. <v Speaker>What, of Jean Pierre? <v Speaker>Yeah. One of my problems is, is perhaps the terms some <v Speaker>of the reporters and 80 or most of them, in fact, are using. <v Speaker>And it's just it's almost like someone is defining or perhaps not even defining <v Speaker>the term coming out with one term in it. <v Speaker>Everybody uses the same thing, Haitian on Haitian violence. <v Speaker>It again conjures up to most of us the the the <v Speaker>images of the black on black violence. <v Speaker>And it's it's really to me, it's it's it's there is an element of racism <v Speaker>in there, because we in South Africa, we rarely are white <v Speaker>on black violence. <v Speaker>So Asian on Asian violence, let's see. <v Speaker>Clearly, the police in Haiti, they are the people with the gun.

<v Speaker>So they are the ones oppressing the populace. <v Speaker>It's really clear. And and that sort of muddles things when we say Haitian <v Speaker>on Haitian violence, it should be police violence against civilians or army violence <v Speaker>against civilians. <v Speaker>Not Haitian on Haitian violence. <v Speaker>Yes. Bernie Gwertzman, let me ask you, while we're on the subject of <v Speaker>terms, what is this thing called now? <v Speaker>It was last week someone called it an invention or whatever in the world that is <v Speaker>intervention? not an intervention. They called it an invention. <v Speaker>I mean, the Latin roots. <v Speaker>But anyway. But it's somewhat different. <v Speaker>Meaning. <v Speaker>Okay. Well, thank you. We've got Marvin back now. <v Speaker>Richard, thank you for your call. <v Speaker>Marvin in New Jersey One thing I have noticed to offer a place I would like to mention <v Speaker>about FDR writing the Haitian constitution that is quite well known <v Speaker>is there's quite a bit of quite a few books on Haiti. <v Speaker>And they were match that. An excellent book on Haiti is called Written in Blood. <v Speaker>It was by a U.S. Marine official. And down there in the Duvalier period

<v Speaker>are written at Blood. But Haiti is such a let's say and off <v Speaker>the wall places, but a tremendous number of books written on it. <v Speaker>And you better read than I am. <v Speaker>And I read and I read a lot. And and I'm just saying that I'd like to see more <v Speaker>historical perspective. Well, I think he means, by the way, the quote from <v Speaker>Roosevelt was is from The New York Times in 1920 <v Speaker>so that you can check the clips. Why he that was. <v Speaker>And he said, the facts are that I wrote Haiti's constitution myself. <v Speaker>And if I do say it, I think it is a pretty good constitution. <v Speaker>Well, Haiti was a inci-, incidentally, was quite a racist state. <v Speaker>The they started with a Holocaust. Gasoline's proclaimed when he became the independents <v Speaker>of Haiti. A New Year's Day, 1804, Dunning's, he said. <v Speaker>What your what's your question mark? My question is this one thing I have noticed has <v Speaker>come out very hidden away how Clinton's friends have been benefiting <v Speaker>from the funds of the Haitian government.

<v Speaker>I'm The Wall Street Journal was about the only publication I've seen carying this, <v Speaker>the big money they've been making. <v Speaker>They had an article last November on this. <v Speaker>And who are you talking about is Michael Barnes, Michael Barnes, <v Speaker>former Maryland congressman, for example. <v Speaker>Michael Barnes was Clinton's campaign manager in a state of Maryland, even took him to <v Speaker>the Orioles game when Quinn was trying to show he's one water to people. <v Speaker>And Michael Barnes is making $55000 a month. <v Speaker>So they've been draining. Hey, she's been making it from what has always been a PR <v Speaker>lobbying. Well, I think it's all firm. <v Speaker>Do it. It's making 55000. Not him personally. <v Speaker>A lot. And they mentioned IRA Kurzban, whose wife was a Castro white candidate <v Speaker>for Congress, a Cuban woman. <v Speaker>And this has not been reported so well as he was EPR for the government or for <v Speaker>Burtraw. <v Speaker>IRA works for, I believe, the Haitian government. <v Speaker>Aristide was something that I would think he'd be rather unhappy with what's been going <v Speaker>on. <v Speaker>But I mean, it seems to me, sir, that the press has been very amiss in

<v Speaker>all this and not bringing up the reason most things happen is someone make some money on <v Speaker>it and the press should bring out the fact that young kids are going to die. <v Speaker>So politicians are going to get rich. <v Speaker>And, you know, it's it's a pretty heavy any wallet. <v Speaker>How would you res pond to that? <v Speaker>I think it's always wise to follow the money. And I would suggest that you follow the <v Speaker>money to the CIA report that defaming President Aristide, because that's where the money <v Speaker>went. The money went to firm called the Camp of Toba- <v Speaker>McCandless- McCandless. Yeah. Bob McCandless, Craig and Craig or whatever. <v Speaker>Greg Craig and- Greg Craig is a good friends of Clinton, too by the way, right? <v Speaker>Clinton has friends on both sides of this issue. <v Speaker>The two elite families funded the the campaign against <v Speaker>Aristide in an attempt to get the embargo lifted so you can follow the money on both <v Speaker>sides of this question. <v Speaker>Anyway, Bernie, have you been following the money trying to. <v Speaker>Well, we've reported, yeah. This is not a new story for us. <v Speaker>We've written a lot about the bonds, company bonds' whole relationship. <v Speaker>One I think one of the weaknesses of Aristide during this whole period is he's really not

<v Speaker>caught on yet to the American way of information. <v Speaker>And he he talks elliptically. <v Speaker>He always has spokesmen talking. I it does he could do a lot better for himself. <v Speaker>I'm reluctant to talk to the press because he has a certain <v Speaker>doubt about whether he's going to be properly reported. <v Speaker>Well he needs-. <v Speaker>But he needs to hire an American PR firm, right? <v Speaker>Well, he does have one that they're not doing such a great job. <v Speaker>But Amy élan, you should switch to Hill and Knowlton. <v Speaker>Let me ask in a very short time, we have left Bernie Gwertzman. <v Speaker>Do you see a lot of spin coming up now in the months ahead as the <v Speaker>administration tries to make whatever happens look like a success? <v Speaker>Well, it's going to be very tough administration. <v Speaker>How much they're going to try to build up said this. <v Speaker>One of the strange things of the past week was this love feast for a few days with <v Speaker>General said this. Now that this is changing, I don't know. <v Speaker>There'll be a lot of spin on it by the American government.

<v Speaker>We haven't heard much spin from the Haitian military. <v Speaker>If they said they don't talk to people and whether they will change their tune, <v Speaker>I don't know. I think Aristide's supporters now are running running <v Speaker>the island as far as the public image goes. <v Speaker>I don't know how this incident that happened late Saturday night in Cape Haitian is going <v Speaker>to play out. About ten Haitians were killed by the Marines. <v Speaker>I don't know what the whole story on that is at this moment. <v Speaker>Well, I'm afraid we're going to have to leave that for another show. <v Speaker>I want to thank my guests, Rick MacArthur, part of the publisher of Harper's Magazine, <v Speaker>Bernie Gwertzman, former editor of The New York Times, Jean Jean-Pierre, a freelance <v Speaker>reporter. And Amy Wilentz, author of The Rainy Season Haiti Since Death About Duvalier. <v Speaker>It's been very interesting discussion, I think, on the Haiti and the press. <v Speaker>On the media is a production of WNYC New York Public Radio. <v Speaker>I'm Alex Jones. I hope you'll stay with us for our next hour when we'll be looking <v Speaker>at science reporting.