New Mexico in Focus; 1152; Incorporating Students' Cultures In the Classroom

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDES BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS ... LOCAL COMMUNITY LEADERS DISCUSS THE IMPORTANCE OF INCORPORATING STUDENTS' CULTURE INTO THE CLASSROOM. >> IF WE HAVE TEACHERS THAT REALLY REPRESENT THE DIVERSITY OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, EVEN NONETHNIC STUDIES CLASSES WOULD HAVE A CRITICAL CONSCIOUSNESS. >> AND THE LINE LOOKS AT HIGH RENT IN CITIES IN NEW MEXICO. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. LATER THIS HOUR, THE LINE OPINION PANEL WILL DEBATE THE CONSEQUENCES OF PROBLEMS FOUND IN SANTA FE'S RECENT AUDIT, AND DISCUSS THE ONGOING CRISIS AT THE U.S./MEXICO BORDER. NOW, IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT, GET IN TOUCH WITH US HERE AT NewMexicoInFocus.org. YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH OUR STAFF ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. JUST SEARCH FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS.

NOW LET'S GO TO THE LINE. >> U.S./MEXICO BORDER ISSUES HAVE BEEN FRONT AND CENTER IN THE NEWS LATELY, OF COURSE, AND SO HAS THE TREATMENT OF FAMILIES AT THE BORDER. WE TALKED LAST WEEK ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S EXECUTIVE ORDER TO END THE PROCESS OF THEIR PARENTS, BUT REUNITING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SEPARATED REMAINS AN ONGOING CONCERN. AND THIS WEEK, LOCAL NEWS OUTLETS ARE HIGHLIGHTING ANOTHER RELATED ISSUE. TWO PRIVATE PRISON OPERATORS WHO HAVE MADE SIGNIFICANT PROFITS DETAINING IMMIGRANTS IN THEIR FACILITIES ACROSS THE NATION, AND IN NEW MEXICO, I MIGHT ADD, HAVE ALSO CONTRIBUTED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO STATE LAWMAKERS AND CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES HERE. AND A JOINT REPORT PRODUCED BY THE NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH FOLKS AND THE SANTA FE REPORTER HIGHLIGHTED POOR CONDITIONS AT TWO ICE PRISONS HERE IN NEW MEXICO. HERE TO TALK ABOUT THESE AND OTHER IMPORTANT ISSUES ARE THIS WEEK'S LINE OPINION PANELISTS, STARTING WITH TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP PR. THE HOST OF NEW MEXICO PEOPLE, PLACES AND IDEAS ON KUNM, 89.9 FM, STEPHEN SPITZ IS HERE. GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN. JULIE ANN GRIMM, EDITOR OF THE SANTA FE REPORTER IS WITH US.

AND OUR FRIEND, INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ, SHE IS EDITORIAL EDITOR FOR THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN. INEZ, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. AFTER NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH REPORTED ON THE CONTRIBUTIONS GIVEN BY THOSE PRIVATE COMPANIES, SEVERAL DECIDED TO GIVE THE MONEY BACK, BUT IT SPEAKS TO SOMETHING, HOW FREE-FLOWING, AND MAYBE WE WERE JUST A LITTLE TOO NOT ON TOP OF THINGS WITH THESE FOLKS TAKING THIS KIND OF MONEY. YOU KNOW, ONE MIGHT ARGUE IT COULD BLOW UP IN THEIR FACES ANY MINUTE. ANYTHING WE CAN GLEAN FROM THIS IDEA OF GIVING THE MONEY BACK, OR THAT THEY TOOK IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THAT? FOR OFFICE WILL TAKE MONEY FROM ALMOST ANYBODY THAT GIVES THEM MONEY, AND THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF THE WORLD. AND WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER AS REPORTERS AND AS CITIZENS IS THAT COMPANIES THAT MAKE MONEY BY DIVERTING PUBLIC DOLLARS INTO THEIR POCKETS ARE GOING TO GIVE MONEY TO CANDIDATES. AND IN THE UNITED STATES, PUTTING PEOPLE IN PRISON IS A REALLY LUCRATIVE BUSINESS. I THINK I READ THE STATISTICS THAT WE HAVE 5 PERCENT OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND 25 PERCENT OF THE WORLD'S PRISONERS. SO WE HAVE CRIMINALIZED A

WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE CRIMES, AND NOW WE'RE LOCKING PEOPLE UP. THE PUBLIC DOLLAR COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH THAT, SO PRIVATE COMPANIES SAID, WOW, I'M GOING TO OPEN A PRISON AND I'LL MAKE LOTS OF MONEY. AND THEY'RE GIVING MONEY TO THESE CANDIDATES TO MAKE SURE THEY KEEP GETTING TO RUN THESE PRISONS. SO AS REPORTERS, OUR JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT CONDITIONS AREN'T INHUMANE, AND THAT'S WHY STORIES LIKE THIS ARE SO IMPORTANT, AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH PRIVATE PRISONS IS THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME REPORTING AND DISCLOSURE RULES THAT PUBLIC PRISONS DO. SO IN THIS COUNTRY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE WANT TO LOCK PEOPLE UP OR IF WE WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM, AND WHERE WE WANT TO SPEND OUR MONEY, AND THAT'S I THINK A HUGE DEBATE FOR THE NEXT ELECTION. >> ISN'T THAT SOMETHING. JULIE ANN, I'M GOING TO TURN TO YOU. THE SANTA FE REPORTER DID AN INTERESTING PIECE ABOUT WHAT REPRESENTATIVE MOE MAESTAS IS UP TO. HE WANTS TO HAVE A HEARING WITH A COMMITTEE HERE MADE UP OF LEGISLATORS AND OTHERS IN OUR BODY. IT'S A VERY INTERESTING IDEA, IN THE MIDDLE OF JULY TO DO THIS, AND HEAR FROM SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN DETAINED AND HEAR THE DETAILS OF IT.

GIVE US A SENSE OF THAT AND YOUR REPORTING ON THIS. >> THE OTHER THING THAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT HEARING THAT'S UNUSUAL IS THAT MOE MAESTAS HAS INVITED REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE TWO PRIVATE PRISON OPERATORS, AS WELL AS PRISON ADVOCATES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE SPENT TIME OR PEOPLE WHOSE FAMILIES HAVE SPENT TIME INSIDE. SO THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE A LOT OF INFORMATION AND ROBUST DISCUSSION IS THERE. HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THOSE PRIVATE PRISON OFFICIALS AND THOSE ICE OFFICIALS ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SHOW UP, AND THERE'S REALLY I THINK GOING TO BE NO CERTAINTY ABOUT WHETHER THEY TESTIFY AND WHAT THEY SAY UNTIL THE DAY ARRIVES. >> INTERESTINGLY, THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE PUBLIC TESTIMONY, AN HOUR. I THINK THEY SHOULD PROBABLY TRIPLE THAT WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. MAYBE THEY'LL THINK ABOUT THAT AS IT GETS CLOSER. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT IN THAT PUBLIC TESTIMONY TO REVEAL, POSSIBLY? >> I THINK THERE WILL BE A BIT OF JOCKEYING BETWEEN THE VARIOUS ADVOCACY GROUPS WHO WILL BRING DROVES OF PEOPLE IN THEIR VARIOUS COLOR COORDINATED T-SHIRTS, BUT

THE IDEA BEHIND THAT IS THERE ARE A LARGE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS ISSUE. WHETHER THOSE RESIDENTS ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PERMISSION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO WORK IN THIS COUNTRY, OR PEOPLE WHO WERE BORN AND RAISED HERE, YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT -- REALLY, PRIVATE PRISONS ARE AN ABDICATION OF A BASIC SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, AND THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO CORRECT OR REHABILITATE PEOPLE HAS REALLY GONE OUT THE WINDOW WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS ESSENTIALLY OPERATING A HOTEL, AND A BAD HOTEL. IF YOU'RE PAID TO HAVE SOMEONE EACH NIGHT, WHAT IS YOUR INCENTIVE TO LET THEM LEAVE? >> THAT'S RIGHT, ESPECIALLY, AS INEZ POINTED OUT, WHEN YOU'RE MAKING SOME PRETTY GOOD JINGLE OFF EACH ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, THE INCENTIVE JUST DIES. WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THIS? AGAIN, IT'S A FAST-MOVING THING, BUT WE ARE -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN FOR US IN NEW MEXICO, WE COULD BE VERY CLOSE TO THIS WHOLE SITUATION WITH DETAINEES. WE HAVE FOLKS HERE, YOU

KNOW, IN OUR STATE NOW, BUT IT COULD GROW, ACTUALLY, IF THEY WANT TO KEEP THIS IN AN AREA OF JUST THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY. WHERE COULD WE BE HEADED ON THIS FOR NEW MEXICO? >> WE'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF IT, NO DOUBT. I THINK THAT THE HEARING I THINK WOULD BE GOOD. I THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, IT THERAPEUTIC, BECAUSE THE DECISION-MAKING OUTSIDE OF ANY STATE-LED INVESTIGATION OR ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE FEDERAL OPERATIONS WOULD REALLY HAVE NO BEARING WHATSOEVER. BUT I THINK IT'S NEEDED, BECAUSE A LOT OF FOLKS WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THOSE MAKESHIFT DETENTION FACILITIES. ON THE OTHER TOPIC THAT INEZ TOUCHED ON WITH REGARD TO THE DONATING, THE DONATIONS THAT ARE RECEIVED, WHAT REALLY IS FASCINATING IS A NEW KIND OF TWIST TO ALL OF THIS WHERE THE ELECTED OFFICIAL, INSTEAD OF RETURNING THE DOLLAR, IS DONATING IT TO A NONPROFIT, OR AN AMOUNT OF AN EQUIVALENT FIGURE, AND I THINK I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS, BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS, THEY'RE TELLING THE ORGANIZATION THAT'S

GIVING THEM THE MONEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I REALLY LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU SUPPORT ME, BUT I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GIVE THIS MONEY TO BIG BROTHERS/BIG SISTERS, OR WHATEVER IT IS, AND THAT WAY I'LL BE CLEAN. AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT CLEAN. I MEAN, IF THEY DON'T WANT THE MONEY, THEY SHOULD JUST RETURN THE MONEY. YEAH, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO WITH IT, BUT YOU'RE NOT ENCOURAGING THAT BEHAVIOR. YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M REALLY TAKING THE HIGH ROAD, WHEN IN ACTUALITY YOU'RE REALLY NOT. >> GOOD POINT THERE. STEVE, WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, INEZ MADE MENTION OF THIS EARLIER, MANAGEMENT AND TRAINING CORPORATION, ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT'S DETAINING THESE FOLKS, THEY'RE CHARGING $70 -- OR I'M SORRY, $80 A DAY FOR A DETAINEE, RINGING UP BETWEEN $8.9 AND $2.1 MILLION MONTHLY. MONTHLY, $2 MILLION AS AN AVERAGE. THAT'S AN AMAZING AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY OVERSIGHT OF THIS, DO WE? WE'VE GOT SMUGGLED CELLPHONE CAMERA FOOTAGE, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT SO FAR. SO WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT WE'RE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY ON

THIS, DO WE? WE DON'T KNOW THE TREATMENT, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. >> YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S HUGE MONEY INVOLVED. ONE OF THE PRIVATE PRISON OPERATORS, WAS DISMISSED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN 2016 BECAUSE THEY HAD THREE INMATE DEATHS, BUT WITHIN THREE MONTHS THEY HAD REPURPOSED THE FACILITY AS AN IMMIGRANT DETENTION FACILITY. THEY THEN GOT CIBOLA COUNTY TO CONTRACT WITH ICE, AND IN THIS CONTRACT, THEY ARE A SUBCONTRACTOR OF CIBOLA COUNTY. THEY'RE GOING TO GET $1.5 MILLION A MONTH WHETHER THEY HAVE ANY DETAINEES OR NOT, AND THEN EXTRA IF THEY HAVE MORE DETAINEES. SO LOTS OF MONEY INVOLVED. AND SO YOU WONDER, WHY ARE THESE PRIVATE PRISON OPERATORS AND WHY ARE THESE PRIVATE DETENTION FACILITIES GIVING THESE CONTRIBUTIONS? WELL, NEW MEXICO HAS 40 PERCENT OF OUR STATE INMATES IN PRIVATE PRISONS. 40 PERCENT,

THAT'S FAR HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER STATE. THE AVERAGE IN OTHER STATES IS 8 PERCENT. AND THE OTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS WAS, SOME OF IT WAS SUCH SMALL CHANGE TO OUR LEGISLATORS. THERE'S $300 HERE, $500 THERE. THE GOVERNOR GOT $130,000. >> RUDY MARTINEZ GOT $250. >> AND ALL THIS MONEY IS BEING PAID TO SAY, DON'T LOOK, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF. SO THAT'S THE BEST THING FOR A GOVERNOR OR FOR A LEGISLATOR, YOU KNOW. $130,000 NOT TO DO ANYTHING. BUT I WOULD JUST -- TOM MADE I THINK A REALLY GOOD POINT, AND I WANT TO ADD TO IT. WHAT CAN BE DONE AT THE HEARING? THAT'S THE ISSUE YOU RAISED. CALIFORNIA HAS ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING. IT HAS GIVEN THE CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AUTHORITY TO INVESTIGATE PRIVATE PRISON OPERATORS AND PRIVATE DETENTION OPERATORS. SO THE LEGISLATURE COULD PASS THAT STATUTE, AND THAT

WOULD BE A GOOD THING, BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD START TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE CONDITIONS WHICH INEZ TALKED ABOUT. I MEAN, SUPPOSEDLY THESE INMATES ARE KEPT UNDER FRIGID CONDITIONS, THEY'RE NOT GIVEN ADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE. THESE ARE ALL REPORTS, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUAL REPORTS, ANECDOTAL REPORTS. SO WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS MORE LIGHT BEING SHINED ON THIS PROBLEM. >> BUT ISN'T IT A FACT, INEZ, AND REPRESENTATIVE MAESTAS MAKES THIS POINT, WE CAN DO THAT NOW, RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE IT'S UNDER THE STATE PURVIEW, WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THESE PLACES. >> YES. I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT IF PRESIDENT TRUMP CONDITIONS THIS KIND OF HARSH BORDER TREATMENT IS THAT BORDER STATES THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY UNDER REPUBLICAN CONTROL, WHETHER THEY HAVE A DEMOCRATIC ATTORNEY GENERAL, AS WE DO, OR CALIFORNIA WHICH HAS DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP UP AND DOWN, ARE GOING TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO INVESTIGATE. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU COULDN'T GET A SUBPOENA AND JUST TAKE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN TO GO LOOK. THERE'S NO REASON TO ALLOW MISTREATMENT IN OUR OWN STATE. NOW, THE NEW MEXICAN A FEW

YEARS AGO DID A BUNCH OF STORIES ON MEDICAL CARE IN PRIVATE PRISONS, FINDING OUT THAT IT WAS INADEQUATE, THAT PEOPLE WERE HURT, THEY WERE DYING, SO IT'S NOT JUST IN CENTERS THAT ARE TREATING IMMIGRANTS, IT'S IN CENTERS THAT ARE TREATING PRISONERS THAT ARE FROM OUR STATE THAT ARE OUR NEIGHBORS AND PEOPLE WE KNOW, PROBABLY, BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE THAT GOES TO PRISON IS THIS HORRIBLE, AWFUL CRIMINAL, BECAUSE WE'VE CRIMINALIZED SO MANY THINGS. >> INTERESTING. I LOVE THAT POINT, INEZ. AND TOM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE DETAINEES, WHETHER CHILDREN OR WHATEVER, ARE BEING MOVED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. SOMEONE HAS TO MOVE THESE PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, SO THERE'S MONEY BEING MADE THERE. WE HAVE OUR OWN VERSION HERE IN NEW MEXICO WITH CSI AVIATION AND THE REPORTING A FEW YEARS AGO THAT ALLEN WEH -- HE'S THE OWNER. HE WAS A FORMER REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE, DIDN'T WIN, BUT HE RUNS THIS COMPANY. HE FLIES DETAINEES BACK TO MEXICO. I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY HE'S GOING TO BE MAKINGS AFTER ALL THIS IS ALL SAID AND DONE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, BECAUSE SOMEONE'S GOT TO FLY THESE FOLKS BACK ONCE THE HEARINGS START.

>> MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I'M NOT AS INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE SITUATION AS THOSE WHO HAVE COVERED IT FROM THE JOURNALISM SIDE, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WHEN HE GOT THE BUSINESS, IT WAS NOT, YOU KNOW, FOR DETAINEE TRAFFIC. YOU KNOW, CSI IS VERY GOOD AT MOVING MILITARY PERSONNEL FROM POINT A TO POINT B. AND I THINK WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SHIFTED THE SCOPE OF WORK. >> FAIR ENOUGH. >> I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WILLINGLY WENT INTO THIS. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WILLINGLY GOES INTO IT. IT'S A HORRIBLE SITUATION. BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEIR CONTRACT ORIGINALLY WAS, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY HAD A SHIFT CHANGE. >> BUT IT MAKES THE POINT, A LOT OF MONEY FLYING AROUND FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE HERE. >> AND YOU CAN TURN THE MONEY DOWN AND SAY, I DON'T WANT TO MOVE SMALL CHILDREN AWAY FROM THEIR PARENTS, I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT FOR MONEY. >> WELL, THE AIRLINES ARE DOING THAT, TWO AIRLINES. >> THREE ACTUALLY. >> WHAT IF YOUR FIRST TIME ON AN AIRPLANE AS A CHILD WAS BEING MOVED FROM ONE PRISON TO ANOTHER AND NOT KNOWING WHERE YOUR PARENTS ARE. >> OR WHERE YOU'RE GOING.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. AND WE HAVE WORD NOW THAT THERE MAY NOT BE REUNIFICATIONS FOR SOME OF THESE KIDS. >> ONE INTERESTING THING IS, A HABEAS CORPUS SUIT WAS FILED JUST RECENTLY, AND IT'S BROUGHT -- IT IS ALLEGING WRONGDOING AT THESE DETENTION FACILITIES. SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET A LOOK, IN THAT HABEAS CORPUS PROCEEDING, AT LEAST AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN ONE FACILITY. >> THAT HAS TO START. >> BUT WE REALLY NEED WHAT INEZ SAID. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. NOW, WHEN WE COME BACK TO THE LINE, WE'LL LOOK AT SANTA FE'S MOST RECENT AND NOT VERY FAVORABLE AUDIT REPORT. >> ONE PERSON COULD GET INTO ALL THE ACCOUNTS IN THE CITY, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE NECESSARILY ANYONE OVERSEEING THAT. THEY HAD A SYSTEM WHERE THEY LOOK AT THE DRAWERS AND THEY'D SAY, OH, WE NEED TO BALANCE IT, AND GET A DOLLAR OUT OF A JAR, AND THEN IF THEY HAD EXTRA, THEY WOULD PUT A DOLLAR IN THE JAR. SO IT WAS JUST SLOPPY ALL AROUND. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYONE WAS STEALING, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYONE WAS EVEN

WASTING, IT JUST MEANS THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE. >> HERE ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT EDUCATION. EVERYONE WANTS OUR STATE'S EDUCATION SYSTEM TO BE BETTER, BUT WHAT DOES THAT REALLY MEAN? LAST YEAR, WE TEAMED UP WITH KUNM AND GENERATION JUSTICE TO ASK STUDENTS IN ALBUQUERQUE ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES IN SCHOOL. YOU CAN FIND THE FULL REPORT ON OUR WEBSITE, NewMexicoInFocus.org. THERE WERE TWO KEY ISSUES THAT ROSE TO THE TOP IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS. STUDENTS WANTED TO SEE THEIR CULTURE REFLECTED IN SCHOOLS, AND THEY WANTED MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO CONNECT WITH MENTORS. PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH SOME LOCAL LEADERS WHO WORK IN SCHOOLS OR WITH STUDENTS TO DISCUSS WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE TO BETTER INCORPORATE THE CULTURE OF OUR STUDENTS INTO THE CLASSROOM. >> I'M JOINED AT THE TABLE TODAY BY DIANE TORRES-VELASQUEZ, PROFESSOR AT UNM AND PRESIDENT OF THE LATINO EDUCATION TASK FORCE. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> THANK YOU. >> CHRISTOPHER RAMIREZ IS DIRECTOR OF TOGETHER FOR BROTHERS. GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US. >> THANK YOU.

>> MANDISA ROUTHENI IS A FELLOW AT THE INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES. GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US. >> THANK YOU. >> AND KARA BOBROFF IS FOUNDING PRINCIPAL AT THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY ACADEMY, OR NACA, AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NACA INSPIRED SCHOOLS NETWORK. SHE'S ALSO NAVAJO AND LAKOTA. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> ABSOLUTELY. KARA. WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO SEE CULTURE IN THE CLASSROOM AT NACA? >> I THINK IT'S REALLY DERIVED FROM WHAT OUR COMMUNITIES WANTED TO SEE IN THE SCHOOL FOR NATIVE STUDENTS IN THIS LARGE URBAN AREA. SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE, I GUESS, PUT TOGETHER IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THAT GOAL WAS TO ENSURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE PREPARED ACADEMICALLY FOR COLLEGE, THAT THEY HAVE A STRONG SENSE OF IDENTITY, AND THAT THEY ARE HOLISTICALLY WELL. SO IF YOU PUT ALL THREE OF YOU'LL SEE HIGH LEVELS OF ENGAGEMENT FROM STUDENTS LEARNING THROUGH A LOT OF RIGOROUS WAYS AROUND THEIR OWN IDENTITY, THEIR OWN CULTURE, AND THEIR OWN COMMUNITY. SO IT COULD BE THAT WE HAVE A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT WHO IS IN A PERSONAL WELLNESS CLASS THAT'S WORKING SPECIFICALLY TO IDENTIFY THINGS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO YOUNG WOMEN OR YOUNG MEN, AND THROUGH THOSE LENSES

THAT THEY START TO EXPLORE THEIR OWN IDENTITY AND CULTURE AND INTEREST. IT COULD BE A GRADUATING OR ALMOST GRADUATING JUNIOR OR SENIOR WHO IS LEARNING ABOUT SELF-DETERMINATION AND SOVEREIGNTY AS IT'S EXERCISED BOTH INHERENTLY AS AN INDIVIDUAL OR AS A TRIBE IN A FORMALIZED WAY. IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER YOUNGER STUDENT LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE FOR THE FIRST TIME. SO WE HAVE A GROUP OF STUDENTS WHO MAY BE REALLY CONNECTED TO THEIR CULTURE, AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT THEIR FAMILY HAS BEEN DOING AT HOME FOR A VERY LONG TIME, OR IT MIGHT BE A STUDENT WHO HAS BEEN LIVING IN AN URBAN SETTING WHO HAS BEEN SEPARATED FROM THEIR HOME COMMUNITY AND FOR THE FIRST TIME LEARNS SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR IDENTITY THROUGH A LAKOTA LANGUAGE CLASS, A ZUNI LANGUAGE CLASS, A NAVAJO LANGUAGE CLASS, TIWA/TEWA, THE APPLICATION OF INDIGENOUS LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT, AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING THE IMPORTANCE OF CORE CULTURAL VALUES AS IT RELATES TO WHO THEY ARE AND HOW THEY BEGIN TO CREATE THEIR WORLD VIEW AND DECISIONS THROUGH NATIVE AMERICAN LITERATURE, AS WELL AS INDIGENOUS SCIENCE, AND ALSO LOOKING AT INDIGENOUS

EDUCATION AND UNDERSTANDING THE CIRCLE CONTEXT OF EDUCATION AS IT RELATES TO THE SCHOOL THAT THEY ARE NOW ATTENDING. SO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND PATHWAYS, AND A LOT OF STUDENT-LED AND STUDENT-DRIVEN LEARNING THAT TAKES PLACE. >> DIANE, WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF INCORPORATING CHICANO OR LATINO CULTURE INTO THE CLASSROOM THAT YOU THINK ARE WORKING IN NEW MEXICO? >> WELL, WE HAVE A GREAT DUAL CREDIT PROGRAM COMING FROM CHICANA AND CHICANO STUDIES, AND I SAY WE BECAUSE IT'S PART OF UNM'S PROGRAMS. CHICANA AND CHICANO STUDIES, AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SCHOOLS WHERE DR. VASQUEZ, HAS SET UP DUAL CREDIT CLASSES WITH THE TEACHERS AT HIGHLAND HIGH SCHOOL, ATRISCO HERITAGE, AND ALBUQUERQUE HIGH SCHOOL. SO EACH OF THOSE TEACHERS HAVE A UNIQUE BACKGROUND, BUT THEY'RE VERY MUCH PREPARED IN THEIR MEXICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES OR ARTS, OR SOMETHING THAT HIGHLY LENDS ITSELF TO THE STUDIES INCLUDED IN CHICANA AND CHICANO STUDIES.

AND SO THE STUDENTS GET UP TO FOUR CLASSES, IF THEY'RE ELIGIBLE, AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MODEL PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE IN THE STATE. WE'RE THE ONLY STATE NOW, THANKS TO DR. VASQUEZ'S WORK, THAT HAS A GRADUATE PROGRAM IN CHICANA AND CHICANO STUDIES. SO WE ARE HOPING VERY MUCH THAT WE WILL BE WORKING TOGETHER IN PREPARING TEACHERS FOR THESE PROGRAMS, AND ALSO FOR THE SCHOOLS. SO THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE. ANOTHER IS IN THE COURSES THAT WE TEACH, WE HAVE A VALUE IN OUR COLLEGE AROUND DIVERSITY. SO I WAS JUST IN MEETINGS MUCH OF LAST WEEK LOOKING AT HOW WE WILL BE EXAMINING OUR CURRICULUM IN ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY ED, AND I'M IN SECONDARY ED, SO WE'RE LOOKING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BRING IN CULTURALLY SUSTAINABLE PEDAGOGY FOR OUR TEACHERS. WE HAVE ONE FACULTY MEMBER, AT LEAST ONE FACULTY MEMBER WHO WORKS AT RIO GRANDE HIGH

SCHOOL AND WORKS WITH THE TEACHERS THERE, AND ALSO WORKS WITH THE STUDENTS, DR. MIA SOSA-PROVENCIO. SHE'S DOING GREAT THINGS THERE. SO THOSE ARE THREE EXAMPLES. >> MANDISA, I JUST SAW YOU NODDING YOUR HEAD. DID YOU WANT TO JUMP IN THERE AND ADD SOMETHING? >> I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT CULTURALLY SUSTAINABLE PEDAGOGY. RIGHT NOW, IN 2017 APS HAD ETHNIC STUDIES THROUGHOUT ALL THEIR HIGH SCHOOLS. YOU CAN TAKE IT THROUGH ENGLISH OR SOCIAL STUDIES. THEY HAVE ASIAN-AMERICAN STUDIES, OFFERING BLACK AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES, AND -- DID I SAY NATIVE AMERICAN? YES, AND ASIAN-AMERICAN. THE ONLY THING ABOUT IT, THOUGH, IS WE DON'T HAVE STANDARDS ABOUT HOW DOES THAT LOOK, BECAUSE IT'S ONE THING TO SAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS IN THE CLASSROOM, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, MOVEMENT FORWARD, BUT IT'S ANOTHER THING TO SAY, IS IT ACTUALLY SUBSTANTIVE? IS IT BEING TAUGHT IN A WAY THAT DOES CREATE MOVEMENT AND CONNECTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN IN A VACUUM. WE'RE NOT JUST STUDYING THESE THINGS BECAUSE WE WANT TO SAY, OH, WE'RE HAVING MULTI-CULTURISM, AND OH, WE'RE HAVING ALL THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS

GOING ON IN THE CLASSROOM. NO, WE WANT STUDENTS TO BE EMPOWERED. WE HAVE THEM TO HAVE SELF-DETERMINATION AND WE WANT THEM TO BE MAKING CONNECTIONS TO CURRENT INEQUITIES RIGHT NOW IN OUR STATE SO WE CAN HAVE CHANGE. >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT APS? >> YES, I'M TALKING APS AND UNM. >> AND UNM THERE. SO THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT YOU MAKE. I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH IS THAT ALTHOUGH APS IS THE LARGEST DISTRICT IN THE STATE BY FAR, BY FAR, THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY DISTRICT IN THE STATE. SO WE HAVE DIFFERENT REGIONS OF NEW MEXICO THAT ARE URBAN, RURAL, AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONALITIES AND THEIR OWN CONTEXTS, CULTURAL CONTEXTS. AND IN MY OPINION, I THINK APS WENT BACKWARDS IN THE WAY THAT THEY IMPLEMENTED ETHNIC STUDIES BY CREATING A COMMON CORE CURRICULUM GUIDE FIRST. IT'S NOT A GUIDE, IT'S JUST A SIMPLE PLAN. AND THEN EXPECTING ALL THE TEACHERS TO ADHERE TO IT. AND I REALIZE IT'S A FLEXIBLE PLAN, BUT I TRULY BELIEVE BECAUSE OF THE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT I'VE LOOKED AT AND STUDIED, THAT THE

SUCCESS OF ETHNIC STUDIES COMES WHEN YOU REALLY TAP INTO THE UNIQUE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT TEACHER CAN MAKE. SO KNOWING YOU, I WOULD HAVE AN IDEA WHAT KIND OF PROGRAM YOU COULD DEVELOP AND WHAT WOULD BE THE STRENGTH OF YOUR CURRICULUM, AND SO I WOULD HESITATE TO HINGE IT ON THE COMMON CORE CURRICULUM STANDARDS OR ANY KIND OF TESTING THAT WOULD BE STANDARDIZED, BECAUSE WE REALLY WOULD WANT TO WORK WITH YOU, IF YOU WERE ONE OF THE TEACHERS, IN TERMS OF DEVELOPING WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU AND FOR YOUR STUDENTS, RATHER THAN BRINGING DOWN A STANDARDIZED CURRICULUM. SO THAT'S THE ONLY ISSUE I HAVE WITH THE WAY THAT APS HAS ROLLED OUT ETHNIC STUDIES SO FAR. BUT I DO VALUE, AND I AM GLAD TO SEE -- WE HAVE A BOARD AT APS THAT HAS ALWAYS VALUED ETHNIC STUDIES, AND SO THEY BRING IN THEIR OWN PARTICULAR INTERESTS, AS WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO HOW IT ROLLS OUT, AS WELL. >> I THINK THE OTHER PIECE, IN TERMS OF TALKING ABOUT BRINGING CULTURE INTO THE

CLASSROOM, IS THE CHALLENGE OF THE ETHNIC STUDIES PROGRAM AT APS. WE CELEBRATED THIS IDEA OF HAVING ALL 13 COMPREHENSIVE PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS IMPLEMENT ETHNIC STUDIES, TALKING ABOUT AT NACA, WHERE I SEE IT BEING INFUSED IN EVERY PART OF THE SCHOOL -- OUT-OF-SCHOOL TIME, CLASSROOM, THE FAMILY ENGAGEMENT THAT YOU DO -- AT APS IT WAS INTRODUCED AS ELECTIVES, AND ONLY CLASSES THAT MADE IT WERE ABLE TO CONTINUE. SO IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, EVEN THIS PAST YEAR, ALTHOUGH ALL 13 SCHOOLS HAVE A POSSIBILITY OF INTRODUCING ETHNIC STUDIES, IT'S SOMETHING LIKE LESS THAN A THIRD WERE ABLE TO ACTUALLY OFFER THOSE CLASSES. AND SO WHAT I HEAR FROM STUDENTS, EVEN AT THE SCHOOLS THAT WERE ABLE TO OFFER ETHNIC STUDIES, THAT OFTENTIMES THEY WERE NOT TOLD ABOUT THOSE CLASSES, THEY'RE ONLY ELECTIVES SO THEY WERE ALMOST IN SOME WAYS DISCOURAGED FROM SIGNING UP FOR THE CLASSES, BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEN AS KIND OF AN IMPEDIMENT TO WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT EITHER THAT RIGOROUS ACADEMIC, LIKE COLLEGE-GOING ENVIRONMENT, AND THEN I

THINK THE OTHER THING I WANT TO BRING UP THAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT, AND I KNOW, DR. TORRES-VELASQUEZ, YOU'VE DONE SOME WORK ABOUT THIS, IS I THINK ABOUT NACA AS BEING AN EXAMPLE, BECAUSE IT'S A SCHOOL THAT THE TEACHERS AND THE STAFF AT THE SCHOOL REFLECT THE COMMUNITY. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APS, THE LAST TIME I LOOKED, MORE THAN THREE-FOURTHS OF THE STUDENTS ARE STUDENTS OF COLOR, AND WE STILL HAVE A TEACHING STAFF THAT IS ALMOST OPPOSITE OF THAT. AND SO PART OF WHAT I HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT, DR. TORRES-VELASQUEZ, IS TO BRING CULTURE INTO THE CLASSROOM, WE NEED TEACHERS THAT LOOK LIKE THE COMMUNITY, AND NOT JUST LOOK LIKE, BUT ARE FROM THE COMMUNITY, AND CAN REALLY -- THIS IS SOMETHING YOU SAID, KARA. WHAT DOES NAVAJO LEADERSHIP LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES ZUNI LEADERSHIP LOOK LIKE? THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE. AND I THINK ABOUT THE POWER OF, IF WE HAD TEACHERS THAT REALLY REPRESENTED THE DIVERSITY OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, OUR CLASSES, EVEN NONETHNIC STUDIES CLASSES, WOULD HAVE A CRITICAL CONSCIOUSNESS.

LIKE MATH AND PHYSICS AND ALL THOSE OTHER PLACES THAT SOMETIMES WE THINK WE CAN'T INCLUDE CULTURE, CLEARLY THERE'S CULTURE IN EVERY ASPECT OF LEARNING, IN EVERY ASPECT OF KNOWLEDGE. AND I THINK THAT JUST MAKES ME THINK ABOUT WHO'S IN THE CLASSROOM, THE TEACHERS, THE STUDENTS, THE FAMILY YOU CAN ENGAGE, AND THAT'S WHY I LOVE THAT IDEA OF HOW I THINK AT NACA, IT'S JUST INFUSED IN EVERY PART OF THE SCHOOL. AND WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT IN APS, COMMUNITY SCHOOLS WHERE YOU SEE SOME OF THAT, EVEN OUTSIDE THE ETHNIC STUDIES, BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE THE CURRICULUM, IT HAS TO BE THE STAFF, IT HAS TO BE EVERY PART OF THAT SCHOOL. LIKE THE POSTERS YOU SEE IN THE SCHOOL, I THINK ABOUT THE LAST TIME I VISITED NACA, THEY HAD AN INDIGENOUS DIET INSPIRED, LIKE, POSTER ON THE WALL, RIGHT, AND THAT'S POWERFUL TO SEE AS SOMEONE WALKING INTO A SPACE, THAT LITERALLY EVEN THE POSTERS REFLECT THE VALUE OF THE SCHOOL. >> TALKING ABOUT THIS IDEA OF, IF THE TEACHING STAFF WAS MORE DIVERSE, IF

TEACHERS COULD BE INFUSING THAT INTO EVERY CLASS, THESE STUDENTS WOULD BE LEARNING FROM PEOPLE FROM ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS IN NEW MEXICO, LEARNING ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN NEW MEXICO, THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF NATIVE AMERICANS. WE COULD GET THAT INTO EVERY SINGLE CLASS. CHRISTOPHER, YOU WORK WITH YOUTH IN THE COMMUNITY. WHAT ARE SOME LESSONS FROM YOUR WORK THAT YOU THINK COULD HELP IMPROVE SCHOOLS, COULD HELP DO THESE THINGS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND ACTUALLY PUT THEM IN PLACE? >> I THINK A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT IS, WE WORK WITH YOUNG MEN OF COLOR AND DO A 12-WEEK LEADERSHIP AND MENTORING PROGRAM WITH THEM, AND THE CURRICULUM THAT WE USE IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THEY UNDERSTAND RACIAL AND GENDER JUSTICE, AND ALSO COMMUNITY ORGANIZING. AND TO DO THAT, JUST LIKE UNDERSTANDING THEIR OWN IDENTITY, BUT ALSO HOW THEIR OWN IDENTITY AND THEIR SUBJECT POSITION AS YOUNG MEN OF COLOR CONNECT WITH EVERYBODY ELSE IN THEIR COMMUNITY. AND IT'S THAT IDEA OF UNDERSTANDINGS THINGS LIKE INTERSECTIONALITY, BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING THE PRIVILEGE THAT YOUNG MEN HAVE. FOR EXAMPLE, IN A RECENT CONVERSATION WE HAD WITH YOUNG MEN ABOUT THE MAN BOX, IF WE KNOW THAT YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR EXPERIENCE SOME OF

THE MOST RECORD VIOLENCE IN DATING RELATIONSHIPS, WE KNOW THAT TYPICALLY IT'S YOUNG MEN OF COLOR WHO ARE PERPETRATORS OF THAT VIOLENCE. SO WHAT CAN YOUNG MEN OF COLOR DO TO INTERRUPT THAT VIOLENCE? BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT MOST VIOLENCE IS COMMITTED BY YOUNG MEN OF COLOR, BUT NOT MOST YOUNG MEN OF COLOR ARE COMMITTING THE VIOLENCE. SO WE CAN INTERRUPT. WE CAN CHANGES THINGS. WE CAN START TO CHANGE CULTURES AND BEHAVIORS AND ACTIONS BY DOING THINGS BY INTERRUPTING AND NOT JUST BEING A BYSTANDER. I THINK THE LAST THING THAT I JUST WANT TO SHARE ABOUT THAT IDEA IS WHAT WE LEARN IS, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY TO TALK ABOUT AND TAKE ACTION ON ISSUES OF EQUITY AND JUSTICE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND SOMETIMES IN OUR CLASSROOMS, BOTH IN K-12 SCHOOLS AND LIKE MANDISA BROUGHT UP, EVEN IN HIGHER ED, SOMETIMES TEACHERS SHY AWAY FROM TALKING ABOUT THESE COMPLICATED ISSUES LIKE RACE OR SEX OR GENDER OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. BUT YOUNG PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEM, AND THEY WANT TO DO MORE THAN TALK. THEY WANT TO ACT. THEY WANT TO DO THINGS. LIKE KARA SAID, IT'S

UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S MORE THAN -- IT'S THINGS THAT IMPACT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE, AND THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT WITH THEIR FAMILIES, TOO. THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT IN THEIR COMMUNITY, EVEN OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOM. >> MANDISA, WHAT ARE SOME OPTIONS YOU SEE FOR DOING THAT IN THE CLASSROOM, BRINGING THAT INTO THEIR CURRICULUM AND THEIR CLASSWORK? >> I MEAN, THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF OPTIONS. LIKE A GREAT MODEL IS NACA. I MEAN, THEY'RE DOING THESE TYPES OF THINGS WITHIN THE TO WHAT YOU FLAGGED, WHICH IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TRYING TO, WITH ETHNIC STUDIES, PERPETUATE A BROKEN EDUCATION SYSTEM. IT'S NOT JUST PUTTING IT IN PLACES AND SAYING, OH, WE'RE OFFERING ETHNIC STUDIES CLASSES. IT'S UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE ADVANCING THIS AS A TOTAL CHANGE IN THE WHOLE DYNAMIC OF EDUCATION, BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT EDUCATION, IT SHOULD NOT ONLY ILLUMINATE WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT IT SHOULD REPRESENT US, AND IT SHOULD CHANGE THE POWER DYNAMICS OF OUR SOCIETY, WHICH OF COURSE IS KEPT IN PLACE PERPETUATING CERTAIN HISTORIES IN HOW WE EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN. SO I THINK SOME OF THE WAYS THAT YOU CAN BRING THAT INTO THE CLASSROOM IS US WORKING TOGETHER. COMMUNITY GROUPS, UNM, CONTINUING THESE RELATIONSHIPS WE HAVE BETWEEN SCHOOLS.

I WORKED WITH THE AFRICANA LEADERSHIP OPPORTUNITY TEAM. IT'S THE FIRST AND ONLY STUDENT GROUP CHARTERED UNDER AFRICANA STUDIES AT UNM, AND WE SAW THAT THERE WAS A NEED FOR PEOPLE WHO, YES, THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE CORE CURRICULUM AND ALL THE STANDARDIZED TESTING, BUT LIKE AT RALPH J. BUNCHE ACADEMY, WHICH WAS THE FIRST ONLY AFRO-CENTRIC SCHOOL IN THE STATE -- NO LONGER AROUND -- BUT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AFRO-CENTRIC, SO HOW DO YOU CREATE AN AFRO-CENTRIC CURRICULUM? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, EVEN IN -- WE CAN TALK ABOUT BLACK STUDIES AS A HIGHLIGHT, BECAUSE THAT'S HAVING ITS OWN ISSUES RIGHT NOW. IT'S BEING ATTACKED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND IT'S BEEN HAVING ITS OWN ISSUES ABOUT BEING POLITICIZED, AND DO WE FOCUS ON CERTAIN OR DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMMUNITY AND POPULATIONS. BUT AWAY FROM THAT, WHEN WE GO INTO THE SCHOOLS, WE GO INTO K-12, THERE'S ISSUES ABOUT EVEN IN STATES WHERE IT'S MANDATED, THERE'S NOT ALWAYS A COMMITTEE TO ENFORCE OR TO HAVE OVERSIGHT. UNLESS THERE IS A COMMITTEE, THERE'S NOT MEANINGFUL PARTICIPATION FROM THE COMMUNITY, FROM COMMUNITY GROUPS. AND IN SOME PLACES, THEY'RE FINDING THAT TEACHERS ARE DOING THINGS LIKE HAVING MOCK SLAVE AUCTIONS, JUST THINGS THAT ARE JUST -- YOU

KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SAYING WHEN WE SAY BLACK STUDIES. IT NEEDS TO BE A WHOLE CHANGE IN YOUR MINDSET AND A WHOLE DIFFERENT APPROACH TO AMERICAN HISTORY. SO I THINK IT'S CONTINUING THESE CONVERSATIONS, AS WELL AS FINDING A WAY OF COMING TOGETHER TO MAYBE -- LIKE AT NACA, YOU GUYS HAVE WAYS TO EVALUATE SUCCESS. YOU HAVE BENCHMARKS THAT AREN'T ABOUT STANDARDIZING IT, BUT ABOUT SUPPORTING SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHERE TO START. AND ALSO, AGAIN, WE CAME FROM THE UNIVERSITY AS STUDENTS, AND WE GOT THAT MENTORSHIP FROM PROFESSORS LIKE DR. JAMAL MARTIN AND DR. KADESHIA MATTHEWS. THEY HELPED SUPPORT US TO HELP THE TEACHERS AT RALPH J. BUNCHE ACADEMY TO CREATE CURRICULUM, AND ALSO TO HELP THEM DO THE RESEARCH, BECAUSE A BIG NEED WHEN IT COMES TO BLACK STUDIES IN NEW MEXICO IS THE LACK OF RESEARCH. SO WE NEED TO SEE AFRICANA STUDIES BECOME A DEPARTMENT, WHICH THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, SO WE NEED THAT COMMUNITY SUPPORT, WE NEED THE UNIVERSITY TO GET ON BOARD WITH THAT. UNM HAS AN INTERESTING HISTORY WITH ETHNIC STUDIES, AND NOW THAT WE HAVE THIS VICTORY WITH CHICANO AND CHICANA STUDIES, LIKE

FINALLY, LIKE IT TOOK THIS LONG, WE NEED THE SAME MOVEMENT IN THE OTHER PROGRAMS TO DEPARTMENTALIZATION SO THAT WE CAN START HAVING PEOPLE COME AND WE CAN DO RESEARCH SO THAT THERE ARE ACTUAL RESOURCES TO MAKE CURRICULUM FROM. SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO FIND THE RIGHT HISTORY, IT'S NOT WRITTEN BY THE RIGHT PEOPLE, AND IT'S NOT GOING THROUGH THE RIGHT LENS. >> KARA, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE LESSONS FROM NACA THAT YOU'RE NOW SHARING WITH OTHER SCHOOLS AND OTHER EDUCATORS IN THE NACA INSPIRED SCHOOLS NETWORK? >> I THINK ONE IS THAT -- ONE REALLY BIG THING IS THE FOCUS OF WHERE THE SCHOOL AND EDUCATION ORIGINATES, AND SO REALLY THINKING ABOUT BOTH THE LAND BASE, BUT ALSO THE COMMUNITY HAVING A HUGE VOICE AND REALLY IDENTIFYING WHAT ARE THE VALUES, THE OUTCOMES, AND THE DIRECTION THEY WANT TO SEE EDUCATION GO. TRUE ENGAGEMENT OF COMMUNITY IN THE DESIGN OF SCHOOL AND LEARNING EVERYTHING FROM, LIKE, WHAT THE SCHOOL'S MISSION IS AND GOALS TO HOW DOES THAT ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE. AND THEN AS STUDENTS AND FAMILIES START TO ENGAGE IN THAT PROCESS, BEING ABLE TO BE RESPONSIVE TO WHATEVER THOSE NEEDS ARE AND CONSTANTLY THINKING ABOUT HOW TO IMPROVE THAT.

I THINK THE SECOND THING IS, WE TALKED ABOUT TEACHERS A LITTLE BIT AND DEVELOPING A TEACHER PIPELINE. SO WHEN WE FIRST STARTED HAVING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT NACA, ONE THING -- AS OTHER SCHOOLS ARE STARTING TO FOCUS ON INDIGENOUS EDUCATION, IT'S REALLY LIKE, WHERE ARE THE TEACHERS GOING TO COME FROM THAT ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT THIS? AND THEN IF THEY ARE IN NEED OF PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT, THEY NEED THE TIME, THEY NEED EXPERTISE IN PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP BE THEIR PARTNERS ALONG THE WAY, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE TEACHER AT NACA HAS REALLY FELT SUPER DEEPLY ABOUT THE CURRICULUM THAT THEY DEVELOPED FROM AN INDIGENOUS PERSPECTIVE. SO THE MARK OF WHAT WE'RE AIMING FOR IS THAT 90% OF THE STUDENT'S DAY IS GROUNDED IN INDIGENOUS EDUCATION. SO WE GET FEEDBACK FROM OUR STUDENTS ON THAT QUESTION, WE GET FEEDBACK FROM OUR FAMILIES, WE GET FEEDBACK FROM OUR STAFF AS WELL AS THE DIRECTORS AND GOVERNMENT AND COMMUNITY PARTNERS. SO I THINK THAT'S A HUGE THING TO BE REALLY EXPLICIT ABOUT. AND THEN, ALSO TIME FOR THEM TO REFLECT AND BE ABLE TO PLAN AND ALIGN THEIR CURRICULUM USING THE STANDARDS, AS WELL. THE OTHER IS THAT THERE'S THIS HOLISTIC APPROACH TO WELLNESS.

IN THINKING ABOUT 62 DIFFERENT TRIBES AND 18 DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES, AND ADOLESCENTS AND JUST WHAT GOES ON WITH MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, THEY'RE CONSTANTLY THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHO AM I, WHAT AM I INTERESTED IN, WHO ARE MY FRIENDS, MY FAMILY, WHAT DO I WANT TO DO LONG-TERM. ALL OF THAT IS HAVING AN OPEN, HOLISTIC APPROACH TO EDUCATION FOR STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE RUNNING ROOM THEY NEED TO REALLY ENGAGE IN THAT KIND OF LEARNING ABOUT SELF AND OTHERS INTELLECTUALLY, SOCIALLY AND EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY, AS WELL AS THE CONNECTION TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE RELATIONSHIPS WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY HAS BEEN A BIG PIECE. AND LASTLY, I THINK WE SEE A LOT OF DIFFERENT SCHOOLS ACROSS NEW MEXICO AND ALSO ACROSS THE NATION WORKING WITH -- WE'RE FOCUSING ON THIS QUESTION OF, WHAT IS AN INDIGENOUS EDUCATION. THERE'S NOT A SINGLE ANSWER TO THAT. AND IT DEFINITELY SHOULDN'T BE FRAGMENTED TO JUST ONE ASPECT OF A SCHOOL THAT'S IN EXISTENCE, BUT REALLY NEEDS TO BE HOLISTICALLY BOUND INTO THE ACTUAL COMMUNITY. SOMETIMES THAT'S THROUGH LANGUAGE WHERE THERE'S LIKE A FULL IMMERSION APPROACH TO AN INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE. IT COULD BE A DUAL LANGUAGE

APPROACH. WE HAVE A SCHOOL THAT'S WORKING TO INCORPORATE INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE INTO THEIR CURRICULUM, AS WELL, AND THINKING ABOUT INDIGENOUS IDENTITY FROM A ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, AND SOMETIMES IT'S LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT AND OTHER ISSUES CONNECTED TO THE HISTORY OF PLACE THROUGH AGRICULTURAL STUDIES AND REALLY THINKING ABOUT -- LIKE, ON THE NAVAJO NATION, THIS ONE COMMUNITY IS REALLY DIGGING DEEP ON WHAT IS THE CONNECTION TO OUR AGRICULTURE AND HISTORY, AS WELL AS LIKE WHAT OUR STUDENTS ARE LEARNING ABOUT THEIR LANGUAGE, THEIR CULTURE AND THEIR IDENTITY. SO IT LOOKS REALLY DIFFERENT. I THINK ABOUT THE SCHOOL UP IN SANTA CLARA, THE KHAPO COMMUNITY SCHOOL THAT'S FOCUSED ON KIND OF HAVING MORE COMMUNITY-MINDED AND KHAPO-MINDED EDUCATION, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY AMAZING JUST TO HAVE THAT SHIFT. LIKE, ALL OF US IN THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY ARE THINKING ABOUT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ELEMENTARY STUDENTS. SO I THINK IT TAKES PLACE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT IT REALLY NEEDS TO START WITH THE COMMUNITY FIRST. IF YOU THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE BOARDING SCHOOL ERA AND HOW SCHOOLS ARE SET UP TO BE STANDARDIZED AROUND ASSIMILATION AND LIKE JUST

ONE SIZE FITS ALL, I THINK THAT THERE'S A REAL DANGER IN WHAT ARE THE STRUCTURES THAT ARE STILL IN PLACE AND HOW DO WE START TO CREATE SCHOOLS THAT ARE NOT CONTINUING TO PERPETUATE THAT EVEN TODAY. SO I THINK THAT'S A LARGER STATEWIDE KIND OF POLICY CONVERSATION, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS KIND OF EDUCATION COME TO LIFE. >> SO MANY THINGS TO TALK ABOUT. DIANE, CAN YOU END IT WITH SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON, WHAT DOES ALL THIS -- LOOKING AT THESE ISSUES, LOOKING AT HOW THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IS WORKING IN HISTORY, WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THESE THINGS THAT WE TALK ABOUT OVER AND OVER, THE OUTCOMES FOR STUDENTS? HOW WILL THIS HELP STUDENTS SUCCEED IN SCHOOL IN WAYS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL TO THEM? >> WHEN YOU ASK ME THAT QUESTION, I THINK ABOUT OUR STATE CONSTITUTION, AND IN PARTICULAR ARTICLE 12, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH EDUCATION. OUR FOREFATHERS WROTE IN OUR CONSTITUTION THAT THEY SUFFICIENT EDUCATION, AND THEY VERY CLEARLY VALUED THE

CULTURE AND LANGUAGES OF NEW MEXICO. WHEN WE THEN BECAME A STATE, OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COAST CAME IN AND KIND OF TOOK OVER WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, AND SO IT'S TAKEN US A WHILE TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE I CAN HEAR KARA TALKING ABOUT THE VALUE OF COMMUNITY, AND I THINK THAT THAT IS THE KEY RIGHT THERE. WE HAVE INCREDIBLE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, ORGANIZATIONS, LEADERS WHO REALLY RIGHT NOW UNDERSTAND WHAT'S AT RISK. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA IN TERMS OF ACHIEVEMENT OR IN TERMS OF HOW WE MEASURE WHO WE ARE AS NEW MEXICO, YOU'LL SEE A LOT MISSING IN TERMS OF OUR REAL VALUE. AND SO IT'S ONE THING TO LOOK AT THE VALUE AND LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS IN TERMS OF OTHER STATES. IT'S ANOTHER THING TO LOOK AT WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE, AS A GROUP OF MANY PEOPLES. AS WE EVOLVE INTO AN INCREDIBLE TECHNOLOGY AGE

THAT WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE YET, HOW ARE WE BEST GOING TO PREPARE STUDENTS AT A TIME WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE THE LARGEST DIVIDE IN ECONOMIC STATUS THAT WE'VE EVER SEEN, AND WHERE ARE THE MORAL ISSUES GOING TO FIT. WHO'S GOING TO HAVE CONTROL OVER THOSE ISSUES? SO RIGHT NOW, I THINK IT IS THE BEST TIME FOR US TO LOOK AT THINGS LIKE ETHNIC STUDIES, TO LOOK AT THE SUCCESS OF NACA, AND TO REALLY TRULY, HONESTLY, AND I MEAN SINCERELY INVOLVE COMMUNITY. NOT JUST AS SOMEBODY THAT COMES TO A MEETINGS ONCE A YEAR, NOT JUST AS SOMEBODY THAT FILLS IN A SURVEY, BUT REALLY INTERACTIVE DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE DYNAMIC WHERE WE LISTEN TO OUR REAL HISTORIES CRITICALLY. THE HISTORY OF OUR STATE IS FASCINATING, AND THERE ARE SOME INCREDIBLE PIECES THAT ARE JUST COMING OUT IN BOOKS RELATED TO HOW OUR HISTORY

EVOLVED AND HOW THOSE STORIES WERE NOT TOLD. SO WE NEED TO PREPARE EDUCATORS IN A WAY THAT IS ALSO CRITICAL, THAT ALLOWS THEM TO CRITICALLY TEACH THE HISTORY, THE LANGUAGE, AND THE CULTURE ALONG WITH AND CERTAINLY VALUING WHAT OUR STUDENTS BRING TO THE CLASSROOM. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE'LL CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION AND CONTINUE TO LOOK INTO SOME OF THESE ISSUES. WE APPRECIATE YOU ALL COMING IN THIS WEEK. >> THANK YOU. >> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE. THE CITY OF SANTA FE WAS MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS LATE IN SUBMITTING ITS AUDIT FOR THE YEAR ENDING JUNE 30TH LAST YEAR. THE TARDY SUBMISSION WASN'T THE ONLY PROBLEM. INTERNAL CONTROLS, A LACK OF DOCUMENTATION ON THE COST OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT SHORTCOMINGS WERE JUST SOME OF THE LISTED PROBLEMS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE CITY MISSTATED THE AMOUNT OF BOND PROCEEDS FROM 2016 BY $280,000, AND ABOUT $35,000 IN UNCASHED CHECKS WERE DISCOVERED LAST FALL IN THE DESK OF A CITY PURCHASING OFFICER.

INEZ, I WANT TO START WITH YOU ON THIS. INTERESTING, IN THE RELEASE OF THIS INFORMATION, WHAT DO WE MAKE OF THAT? ARE WE BEING UNFAIR IF WE SAY ABOUT THE WEBBER ADMINISTRATION RELEASING THIS IDEA LATE ON A FRIDAY, TO KIND OF TAKE ON THE WEEKEND NEWS CYCLE, IS THAT TOO HARSH? SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF, THE MAN WAS BUSY DURING THE DAY AND THIS IS THE BEST TIME HE COULD DO IT. >> I THINK THEY WOULD SAY, AS SOON AS WE GOT IT, WE LET YOU KNOW, AREN'T WE GOOD. TO GET AS LITTLE COVERAGE AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT HIS PROBLEM IN THE SENSE THAT HE WASN'T THE MAYOR WHEN ALL THIS STARTED. BUT IT IS HIS PROBLEM, BECAUSE HE'S GOT TO FIX IT, AND IF HE DOESN'T FIX IT, HIS TERM WILL BE A FAILURE. SO I THINK HE TRIED VERY HARD TO SAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE BAD, IT'S GOING TO BE TERRIBLE, GET READY, GET READY, AND THEN ONCE IT CAME OUT, HE WAS LIKE, WELL, THERE IT IS, SEE, I TOLD YOU IT WAS BAD, NOW HERE'S WHAT WE'RE DOING TO FIX IT. NOW THE PROBLEM IS, ARE THOSE THINGS WORKING, IS IT ACTUALLY BEING FIXED, AND THAT'S WHAT THE PRESS AND CITIZENS HAVE TO REALLY STAY ON TOP OF.

>> IS IT YOUR SENSE THAT THIS WAS A MAJOR BOONDOGGLE, A MEDIUM WEIGHT PROBLEM, OR JUST THE TYPICAL THINGS YOU WOULD SEE IN AN ADMINISTRATION? A LOT OF MONEY IS MOVING AROUND, NOT NECESSARILY EVERY DOLLAR GETS TRACKED, THAT HAPPENS. WAS THIS THAT BAD? >> NO, I THINK IT'S THAT BAD. THEY DID NOT HAVE FINANCIAL CONTROLS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FOR YEARS HAD HAPPENED BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE OFFICE GOT SET UP IS THAT ONE PERSON COULD GET INTO ALL THE ACCOUNTS IN THE CITY, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE NECESSARILY ANYONE OVERSEEING THAT. THEY HAD A SYSTEM WHERE THEY WERE TAKING CASH, THEY WOULD LOOK AT THE DRAWERS AND THEN THEY'D SAY, OH, WE NEED TO BALANCE IT, AND GET A DOLLAR OUT OF A JAR. AND THEN IF THEY HAD EXTRA, THEY WOULD PUT A DOLLAR INTO THE JAR. SO IT WAS JUST SLOPPY ALL AROUND. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYONE WAS STEALING, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYONE WAS EVEN WASTING, IT JUST MEANS THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE. I MEAN, IF I OWN 50 CARS AND YOU CAN ONLY TRACK 37, YOU'RE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. >> THAT WAS PART OF THE THING, JULIE ANN, THEY LOOKED AT A BUNCH OF RANDOM ASSETS, SO TO SPEAK, AND

THEY COULDN'T COME UP WITH A VALUE FOR A BUNCH OF THEM, AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING. ESPECIALLY IN TIGHT FINANCIAL TIMES, ISN'T IT, WHEN THE TAXPAYERS ARE EXPECTING -- >> IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT THE SANTA FE CITY FINANCES HAVE COME UNDER SCRUTINY RECENTLY, OR IN THE THEY HAD A BIG PARKS BOND, $30 MILLION THEY SPENT ALL OVER THE CITY, AND THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, WIDESPREAD EVIDENCE THAT THAT MONEY WASN'T TRACKED VERY WELL, THAT IT WAS USED IN WAYS THAT DIDN'T MATCH WITH WHAT THE PUBLIC WAS TOLD. PEOPLE WERE SAYING, WHERE IS MY WATER FOUNTAIN, WHERE IS MY BENCH. THEN YOU HAVE THE McHARD REPORT, WHICH WAS SOMETHING THAT THE FORMER MAYOR IN HIS ADMINISTRATION COMMISSIONED, WHICH CAME OUT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT AROUND THE TIME THAT HE DECIDED NOT TO SEEK RE-ELECTION, AND THAT SHOWED ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INEZ MENTIONED. NOT ONLY WOULD THEY USE THE JAR TO BALANCE THE DRAWER, BUT THEN AT THE END OF THE MONTH, IF THERE WAS ANY MONEY LEFT IN THE JAR, EVERYONE COULD GO OUT TO LUNCH. >> WOW, NICE SYSTEM. >> YEAH. AND I THINK THE CITY FINANCES ARE

INCREDIBLY -- THEY'RE MASSIVE AND COMPLEX. IT'S THIS OUT-OF-CONTROL BUREAUCRACY. YOU KNOW, I COVERED CITY HALL AS A BEAT REPORTER AND SAT THROUGH MANY A FINANCE MEETING WHERE THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHY CAN'T WE GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER? THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE WASTE WATER AND WATER FEES THAT HAD BEEN COLLECTED FROM RESIDENTS, AND THERE WAS THIS MASSIVE AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND THEY WERE STILL GAWKING US FOR OUR WATER RATES. SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING NEW. BUT I THINK INEZ IS REALLY SPOT ON WHEN YOU SAY THAT THIS IS WEBBER'S TO LOSE. IF HE CAN FIX THIS AND HE CAN REALLY FULFILL SOME OF THE PROMISES HE'S MADE ABOUT SORT OF MAKING THE CITY RUN MORE LIKE A BUSINESS OR BEING MORE ACCOUNTABLE OR MORE EFFICIENT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BUT THE LONGER THIS MESS SITS ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER, THE HARDER IT WILL BE TO CLEAN UP. >> THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT, I LIKE THAT. STEPHEN, INTERESTINGLY THE MAYOR ALSO MADE A FEW NEW HIRES. HE MOVED AROUND SOME PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE PREVIOUSLY. SOME PEOPLE HAD SOME NICE CONTRACTS, IT DOESN'T WORK OUT OVER HERE, GOT A

GUARANTEED GIG OVER HERE. VERY INTERESTING SANTA FE WAY TO DO BUSINESS. BUT I'M CURIOUS, HE'S ACTUALLY BALLOONING THE GOVERNMENT A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT. LIKE ALL THESE EXTRA PEOPLE NOW. IS THIS THE SOLUTION? >> WELL, I THINK WITH REGARD TO THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT, THEY NEED HELP. >> FRESH BLOOD WOULDN'T >> BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HELP. I MEAN, I WOULD CEDE AUTHORITY TO MY SANTA FE COLLEAGUES. BUT HE'S GOING TO HAVE A FINANCE DIRECTOR, I THINK A COMPTROLLER, AND THEN SOMEONE ALSO TO MANAGE AUDITS. SO THAT'S THREE NEW HIRES. PLUS HE'S TALKING ABOUT HAVING TEN ADDITIONAL AUDITS. SO THAT'S A LOT OF EXPENSE. >> SHALL WE GIVE HIM SOME CREDIT FOR THAT? HE'S TAKING THIS AND SAYING, LET'S TAKE IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, LET'S GO ALL THE WAY HERE. >> I THINK HE DOES. WHEN I WAS IN LITIGATION, I REPRESENTED ACCOUNTING FIRMS, I SUED ACCOUNTING FIRMS, AND IT IS VERY HARD TO GET A QUALIFIED OPINION. I MEAN, AUDITORS WANT TO

GIVE YOU AN UNQUALIFIED OPINION, MEANING YOUR FINANCIAL STATEMENTS REFLECT WHAT WE SAY IS ACTUALLY TRUE, YOU'RE ACCURATELY REPORTING WHAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE. BECAUSE AUDIT FIRMS ARE HIRED YEAR OVER YEAR, THEY WORK WITH THE PEOPLE, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, THEY TRY TO CORRECT IT. AND THE REASON AUDITS ARE DELAYED IS BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO CORRECT ALL THE PROBLEMS SO THEY CAN GET AN UNQUALIFIED OPINION. SO MY SANTA FE COLLEAGUES HAVE REALLY GIVEN ME SPECIFICS. BUT I MEAN, THESE ACCOUNTS MUST BE A TOTAL MESS, A TOTAL MESS, BECAUSE AS JULIE ANN SAID, YOU KNOW, EARLIER IN THE FALL THERE WAS ANOTHER AUDIT FIRM THAT GAVE A WHOLE OTHER OPINION AND STILL SIX MONTHS LATER THEY STILL CAN'T CORRECT IT. >> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT. >> AND THESE ARE JUNE 30, 2017, REPORTS. SO IT'S BEEN A YEAR. THIS IS A REAL MESS. >> IT WAS THE FLARE, THE EARLY WARNING, AND THEN THE SECOND FLARE, AND NOW IT'S ON, EXACTLY.

>> I WOULD JUST ADD THAT SOME OF THE REASONS THAT THEY'RE HIRING PEOPLE IS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE LEFT. SO THE FINANCE DIRECTOR LEFT, AND THEY'RE HIRING A NEW FINANCE DIRECTOR. UNTIL HE'S DONE PUTTING IN ALL HIS PIECES, YOU CAN'T SAY HE'S BALLOONED THE GOVERNMENT OR DIDN'T BALLOON THE GOVERNMENT. I ASSUME, LIKE THE DEPUTY CITY MANAGER THAT WAS THERE UNDER THE OLD ADMINISTRATION, HE HAS SAID, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A DEPUTY CITY MANAGER ANYMORE. BUT WE'LL SEE HOW IT ALL SHAKES DOWN IN TERMS OF WHETHER HE HAS MORE PEOPLE AT THE TOP OR NOT. >> THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT, I LIKE THAT DISTINCTION. TOM, A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE, WHICH IS INTERESTING TO ME. A $68,000 ENTRY TO BALANCE AN ACCOUNT FOR REVENUE FROM LIQUOR LICENSES SIX MONTHS AFTER THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, WHICH WAS SORT OF A FICTION, AND THEN FAILING TO PROPERLY RECORD A $93,000 PAYMENT TO A CITY VENDOR. THESE ARE NOT SMALL AMOUNTS, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THEM, GOING BACK TO THE $35,000 IN CHECKS IN THE DESK. THESE THINGS START TO ADD UP TO REAL MONEY AFTER A WHILE. SO MY QUESTION IS, THE CONFIDENCE FOLKS SHOULD HAVE IN SANTA FE ABOUT THIS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IS ALAN WEBBER TAKING THE RIGHT APPROACH TO BUILD THAT CONFIDENCE BACK AGAIN? >> WELL, FIRST OFF, KUDOS TO JULIE ANN FOR HER PR MASTERY

SANTA FE NEEDS TO DO, AND TO INEZ'S APPROACH AS FAR AS HOW THE MAYOR SHOULD HAVE HANDLED IT. THERE IS AN OLD ADAGE THAT YOU TELL THEM WHAT'S WRONG, YOU TELL THEM WHO'S TO BLAME, AND THEN YOU SAY, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO FIX IT, AND BY DOING ALL THIS LEAD UP TO ONLY RELEASE IT ON A FRIDAY SO IT GETS LOST IN THE NEWS CYCLE, SUCH A POOR -- GREAT MISSED OPPORTUNITY. BECAUSE YOU REALLY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO OWN IT, THE SAME WAY THAT MAYOR KELLER IN ALBUQUERQUE IS OWNING THE ALBUQUERQUE RAPID TRANSIT ISSUE. IT'S ONE THING TO FIND $20 IN A PAIR OF JEANS AND YOU GO, OH, HEY, LOOK WHAT I FOUND. IT'S ANOTHER TO SAY, THERE'S $35,000 IN UNCASHED CHECKS. THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD TRUST THAT MAYOR WEBBER HAS THE CHANCE TO DO. FIRST OFF, GET RID OF THE CHANGE JARS, YOU KNOW. LET'S PROFESSIONALIZE EVERYTHING TO PROVIDE AND RESTORE TRUST FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THE CITY OF SANTA FE. >> IS THERE A POSSIBILITY, JULIE ANN, THAT SOME FOLKS

MIGHT GET -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A THING IN THE AIR. THEY WANT HEADS ROLLED, ALL THAT KIND OF THING WHEN SOMETHING GOES WRONG. IT'S A BIG PART OF OUR CITIZENRY RIGHT NOW. ARE FOLKS JUST GOING TO MOVE ON WITH THIS AND JUST KIND OF DEAL WITH IT, OR IS THIS GOING TO RISE TO SOME LEVEL? >> WELL, I THINK THE QUESTION ABOUT CONFIDENCE IS REALLY RELEVANT, AND THAT'S COME UP BEFORE. IT CAME UP AFTER THE PROBLEMS WERE UNEARTHED WITH THE PARKS BOND. YOU EVEN HAD A CITY COUNCILOR SAYING, ONE WHO'S NOT SITTING ANYMORE SAYING, I WOULDN'T VOTE TO INCREASE TAXES FOR THE CITY. YOU SAW THE SWEETENED BEVERAGE TAX FAIL IN SANTA FE. I THINK SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST IT THAT CONVINCED FOLKS TO HOLD BACK ON THAT WERE, DOES THE CITY REALLY NEED ANOTHER MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR TAX COLLECTION EFFORT TO ORGANIZE AND TRY TO GET INTO AN AREA THEY'RE NOT CURRENTLY MANAGING. I THINK THE OTHER THING, AS FAR AS ACCOUNTABILITY GOES, WE KNOW THAT THE HR PROCESSES IN GOVERNMENT TAKE A LONG TIME, BUT THE PURCHASING OFFICER WHOSE DESK WAS FULL OF CHECKS HAS BEEN ON LEAVE SINCE THE

McHARD REPORT, PAID LEAVE. YOUR TAX DOLLARS AND MINE -- WELL, YOUR TAX DOLLARS AND MINE. SO IT FEELS, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND YOU SEE HEADS ROLL, OR YOU SEE PEOPLE SORT OF GET PUNISHED FOR THINGS THAT WEREN'T THEIR FAULT, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SWALLOW SOMEBODY EARNING THAT BIG GOVERNMENT SALARY BEING DINGED FOR ONE OF THE BROKEN PIECES, AND THEN, NOW WHAT. >> THERE'S ALWAYS A CONVENIENT SCAPEGOAT, ISN'T THERE? THERE'S ALWAYS THAT ONE PERSON. IT'S ALWAYS BIGGER THAN THAT, THAN ANY ONE GIVEN PERSON. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE. IN JUST A MOMENT, WE'LL LOOK AT THE HIGH COST OF RENT HERE IN NEW MEXICO CITIES. >> NEW MEXICO InFOCUS IS ON TWITTER AND FACEBOOK. FOLLOW US ONLINE TO GET UPDATES ON UPCOMING SHOWS AND TELL US WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOP NEWS STORIES OF THE WEEK. THEN TUNE IN, BECAUSE WE MAY SHARE YOUR COMMENTS ON THE LINE. >> WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE. WE OFTEN HEAR THAT ALTHOUGH WAGES ARE LOW HERE IN NEW MEXICO, IT'S ALSO A

CHEAP PLACE TO LIVE. ALTHOUGH RENT IN ALBUQUERQUE IS FAR LOWER THAN CITIES LIKE DENVER, SEATTLE OR SAN FRANCISCO, MANY LOCALS ARE STILL STRUGGLING TO PAY THAT RENT. THE NATIONAL LOW INCOME REPORT LAST WEEK THAT SHOWS WORKERS IN ALBUQUERQUE, ON AVERAGE, HAVE TO WORK MORE THAN ONE JOB IN ORDER TO AFFORD A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT. WORKERS IN ALBUQUERQUE WOULD ALSO NEED TO MAKE NEARLY $17 AN HOUR TO AFFORD THE AVERAGE RENT. IN SANTA FE, THEY WOULD NEED TO BE BRINGING IN MORE THAN $19 AN HOUR. AND STEVE, THAT STUDY SHOWS THAT ACROSS NEW MEXICO, RENTERS WORKING MINIMUM WAGE HAVE GOT TO REALLY HUSTLE TO PUT A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS. FORGET ABOUT TWO BEDROOMS, EVEN ONE BEDROOM, IF YOU'RE REALLY HUMPING IT HERE, IS HARD. WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT NEW MEXICO? OBVIOUSLY I MADE MENTION WE'RE NOT AS EXPENSIVE AS OTHER PLACES, BUT DO WE RELY TOO MUCH ON THAT HERE AND TAKE OUR EYE OFF THE BALL ABOUT RENT HERE? HAVE WE KIND OF TALKED OURSELVES INTO THE CORNER ABOUT THIS CHEAP THING? >> WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE A SIMPLE QUESTION, BUT IT'S A THEY LOOKED AT THE AVERAGE AMOUNT OF RENT PAID, THEY LOOKED AT THE AVERAGE WAGES OF THE PEOPLE WHO PAY RENT,

AND THEN, BASICALLY, WHAT THEY SAID WAS, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN 30% OF YOUR AVERAGE WAGE FOR HOUSING. AND IN ALBUQUERQUE, AS YOU SAID, IT ENDED UP THAT YOU DO HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN 30% OF THE AVERAGE WAGE, SAY TO RENT A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT. YOU HAVE TO PAY ABOUT 40%, OR YOU HAVE TO WORK 1.3 JOBS. NOW, IT'S ALSO THE CASE, GENE, THAT IF YOU COMPARE US TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS YOU'D HAVE TO EARN TWICE AS MUCH TO PAY. SO, YES, IT IS CHEAPER HERE, BUT IF YOU'RE ONE OF THE PEOPLE HAVING TO PAY FOR A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT, AND YOU'RE A SINGLE MOTHER WITH A CHILD, THAT DOESN'T DO YOU A LOT OF GOOD TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE WORSE OFF SOMEWHERE ELSE. >> EXACTLY. >> THERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS IN ALL THIS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY NEW MEXICO, AND ALBUQUERQUE IN PARTICULAR, THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO BUY A HOUSE. THERE WAS ANOTHER STUDY THAT LOOKED AT THE AMOUNT OF RENT

YOU'D HAVE TO PAY AND COMPARED THAT TO THE AMOUNT OF MORTGAGE PAYMENT YOU'D HAVE TO PAY FOR THE AVERAGE COST OF A HOUSE. THE AVERAGE COST WAS LIKE $250,000. THEY COMPARED THAT TO THE AVERAGE RENT, THE AVERAGE MORTGAGE PAYMENT, AND ACTUALLY THE LINES CROSSED IN ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS. SO WE ARE A CITY WHERE IT IS EASIER TO BUY A HOUSE. NOW, THE PROBLEM IS, YOU HAVE TO SOMEHOW ACCUMULATE THAT DOWN PAYMENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> SO IF YOU'RE PAYING 1.3 TIMES YOUR RENT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ACCUMULATE THE MONEY FOR THAT DOWN PAYMENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. GOOD POINT THERE. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. LET'S SWING TO SANTA FE. OBVIOUSLY EXPENSIVE. WAGES ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A DIFFERENT MINIMUM WAGE. WE HAVE TO BRING THAT INTO THIS CONVERSATION. DOES THAT EFFECT THE IDEA OF HOUSING AND RENT UP THERE? HAS THAT CHANGED THINGS MARKEDLY FOR WORKING PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS, DO YOU THINK? >> IT HAS CHANGED THINGS IN THE FACT THAT YOU MAKE MORE THING, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY TAKE THE TRAIN FROM ALBUQUERQUE TO COME GET SANTA FE JOBS AND THEN GO BACK WITH THEIR HIGHER

WAGES, WHICH IS ALMOST $12 NOW, I THINK. >> IT'S $11.40. I LOOKED IT UP THIS MORNING. >> SO, IT'S GOOD. BUT IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN AFFORD A HOUSE, BECAUSE OUR PROBLEM IN SANTA FE IS NOT JUST THAT IT'S EXPENSIVE, IT'S THAT THERE IS NO SUPPLY OF RENTAL UNITS. WE HADN'T BUILT IN A WHILE, THINGS GOT STUCK IN THE PIPELINE, THE RECESSION HAPPENED. SO YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD AND YOU STILL CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO LIVE. >> HENCE THE PROJECTS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN SANTA FE TO MUCH FANFARE FOR NEW PUBLIC HOUSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S INTERESTING. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS? IT SEEMS PRETTY SIMPLE. YOU EITHER HAVE FOLKS MAKING MORE MONEY OR THE RENT HAS TO BE CHEAPER. AND THE RENT IS NOT GOING TO BE CHEAPER, BECAUSE THAT'S NOW HOW LANDLORDS WORK, SO FOLKS NEED TO MAKE MORE MONEY. BUT $17 AN HOUR IS A LOT OF DOUGH AROUND HERE FOR A LOT OF FOLKS. DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? THAT'S A REAL DILEMMA FOR FOLKS HERE. >> SO THE RENTS WILL ONLY GET COMPETITIVE AGAIN WHEN THERE'S ANOTHER OPTION, AND AS STEPHEN HAD MENTIONED THAT TIPPING POINT WHERE PRETTY SOON THE HOUSING MARKET WILL BE MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE THAN THE RENTAL MARKET, AT WHICH POINT THE

RENTAL MARKET WILL CHANGE. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO MONEY IN THE POCKET, AND HOW MANY RESIDENTS AT $15, $17 AN HOUR ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT AWAY ADDITIONAL MONIES AND STUFF. >> 15% OF $250,000, THAT'S A BIG CHUNK OF CHANGE TO COME UP WITH. >> OH, YEAH, IT IS, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER DEMANDS ON FAMILIES IN TODAY'S CURRENT STRUCTURE, IT'S JUST EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO DRAW DOWN THAT TYPE OF DOUGH TO REALLY MAKE THAT DOWN PAYMENT. NOW, IN THE OTHER ARENA, IT REALLY IMPACTS WORKFORCE. PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OF NEW MEXICO, WHETHER IT'S IN TEXAS, ARIZONA OR COLORADO THAT ALL HAVE HIGHER INCOMES OR HOURLY WAGES THAN WE DO HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THEY GO, WOW, WHAT'S THE COMPELLING REASON FOR ME TO MOVE TO SAVE MONEY? AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE BEFORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPERS, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO CONVINCE THEIR BOSSES THAT THEY NEED TO RELOCATE HERE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE LOWER COST SAVINGS, WHICH IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT. IT'S PROVEN TO BE DIFFICULT, UNLESS YOU'RE IN SANTA TERESA, NEW MEXICO, WHICH HAS ITS OWN ISSUES AND COMPETING NOW WITH EL PASO.

SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING, THIS IS KIND OF A SIGN OF THINGS TO COME, THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE ABLE TO POSITION FOR THAT FUTURE GROWTH AND RE-BRAND NEW MEXICO FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE. TOURISM, WE'VE GOT DOWN. >> I LIKE THAT OVERARCHING IDEA, THAT'S KIND OF INTERESTING. JULIE ANN, STEPHEN MENTIONED SOMETHING AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS WHICH CAUGHT MY EAR WHEN I THINK OF BOTH SANTA FE AND ALBUQUERQUE. IT'S A MUCH DIFFERENT SITUATION WHEN YOU'RE IN A DUAL INCOME SITUATION IN THESE TWO PLACES VERSUS SINGLE, AND STEPHEN MENTIONED THE SINGLE MOM, THE CLASSIC SINGLE MOM WHO'S GOT TO GO UP AGAINST -- THERE'S NO BREAK ON RENT FOR A SINGLE MOM, THERE'S NO BREAK ON THINGS FOR PEOPLE IN THAT POSITION. IS THAT HOW WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS AND NOT JUST LIKE HOUSEHOLDS WHERE YOU HAVE TWO INCOMES FLOWING IN? >> I'M THINKING HOW WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS IS WITH A DRASTIC EYE FOR CHANGE, OR AN EYE FOR DRASTIC CHANGE, RATHER. SO THIS HOUSING MODEL THAT WITH IN OUR NATION WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN LITTLE FOUR WALLS AND YOUR OWN LITTLE

FOUR FENCE POSTS AND YOUR OWN WATER HEATER AND YOUR OWN KITCHEN, WE LIVE IN A STANDARD IN THIS COUNTRY THAT'S NOT REPEATED ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND THIS IDEA THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE THEIR INDEPENDENT HOME IS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET GO OF AS A SOCIETY IF WE REALLY WANT TO PUT OUR HARD-EARNED RESOURCES IN A DIFFERENT WAY. >> PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE A DEVOTEE OF THE NEW STYLE OF FOLKS GOING IN ON A PROPERTY TOGETHER AND SORT OF LIVING TOGETHER. >> SO, WE ALL HAVE THAT FANTASY. >> I DO, I DEFINITELY DO. I WOULD ACTUALLY FIND THAT A VERY INTERESTING WAY TO LIVE. FRIENDS OR RELATIVES THAT YOU TRUST, YOU ALL GET YOUR LITTLE CORNER OF THE WORLD. I LIKE THAT KIND OF THING. >> AND THAT'S THE WAY THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVED IN SANTA FE FOR A LOT OF YEARS. YOU KNOW, GETTING BACK TO THAT COULD REALLY BE A SOLUTION THAT WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR PREDICTIONS ABOUT THE MARKET, WHICH I'M SURE COULD PAN OUT, BUT IF WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN A REALLY DIFFERENT WAY, THEN WHAT COULD HAPPEN.

I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT A LOT OF HOUSING PROJECTS, THE RENTAL PROJECTS THAT WERE PROPOSED IN SANTA FE IN THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS, YOU HAD PEOPLE WHO OWNED SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES NEARBY SAYING, OH, NO, DON'T YOU PUT THOSE APARTMENTS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THAT HAS TO STOP, TOO, IF WE REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO LIVE IN EQUITABLE WAYS. >> GETTING CREATIVE. I HOPE THE MARKET COMES BACK IN ITS OWN WAY AND STUFF, BUT LET'S GET CREATIVE. WE HAVE THE CONTAINERS. IT'S REALLY NOT TYPICAL. >> I LOVE THE TINY HOUSE THING, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A WAVE IN SANTA FE FOR THAT. >> A LOT OF THINGS NEED TO CHANGE IN ORDER FOR CONTAINERS, AND IT'S NOT GOING TO DO WELL BY THE PLAZA OR BY THE ALBUQUERQUE CIVIC PLAZA AREA. >> BUT ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, WE HAD A STORY IN THE REPORTER A FEW MONTHS AGO WHERE SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO RENT THEIR TOOL SHED, AND IT WAS LIKE, YOU CAN RENT MY TOOL SHED, YOU CAN USE MY BATHROOM, BUT YOU CAN'T COOK MEAT IN MY KITCHEN IF YOU WANT TO BE THE TENANT. WE ACTUALLY CALLED THE CITY AND SAID, ARE THERE ANY

ISSUES WITH THIS? AND LO AND BEHOLD, THERE WERE, AND THAT PERSON HAD TO TAKE HIS LISTING OFF OF CRAIG'S LIST. BUT THAT'S BORNE FROM THIS GAP THAT INEZ SPOKE OF, THAT THERE AREN'T PLACES TO RENT. >> AND I HAVE TO SAY, TOO, FOR OUR SANTA FE FOLKS, ACROSS THE MOUNTAIN WEST THIS IDEA OF RENTALS THAT ARE HIGHLY IMPACTFUL ON RENTALS, REGULAR RENTALS, MEANING SHORT-TERM AIRBNB TYPE RENTALS ARE REALLY MUCKING WITH THE MARKETPLACE, SO TO SPEAK. SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT ALL WORKS. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS WEEK. LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS STORY OR ANY OTHER TOPIC WE COVERED THIS WEEK BY GOING TO NewMexicoInFocus.org OR CONNECTING WITH US ON FACEBOOK OR TWITTER. THANKS FOR WATCHING. >> I'M GENE GRANT. THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS. AND AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, InFOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION.