For the Record; 401; Lech Walesa; For the Record With Charley McDowell [Alternate Title]

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these production funding for four the record is provided by your new financial partner in virginia we are wachovia and we're here to build on the spring known to provide investing in banking services for individuals and businesses wachovia let's get started and by a grant from the very foundation visitors to the country is located between russia and family delay people's often missed each other ending badly and they wanted to visit each other civic has fallen others and on the way sometimes they decided they will stay on for longer than one occasion has taken common for one hundred years and they erased poland from the map of the world from the miller center of the university of

virginia a conversation on politics policy and the presidency for the record with charlie mcdowell born in nineteen forty three in the polish village worked as a car mechanic and then in a shipyard organized a free union led an historic movement against communism and went to jail in nineteen eighty one in nineteen eighty three he received the nobel peace prize for this work to preserve freedom and human rights in nineteen ninety he was elected president of the republic of poland welcome mr lentz are oh we are honored to have you go and what was it like after eleven months in solitary confinement to win the nobel peace prize i hadn't been prepared myself a father's struggle to use the farm so i had predicted the most of that and so acting and taking

because in fact analysts actually implementing my ideas and concepts that have been the fact that they were full flow as for their noble peace prize this came as a great support and that i think to myself individually and to the whole polish people after this listeners felt lonely and their fathers said no peace prize lifted our spirits up and it's painless though that it helped as being ourselves now you have won the victory all it would have been much harder had not be up in double prize you believed in yourself already fairly much if you could turn solitary confinement into a positive thing that didn't you i haven't played it

patton's solitude it is says something that i don't mind i consented well that's besides i have been other kinds of life goes on at the pontiff six children so this awesome i'll get perfect yeah like listen to talk up to describe the movement sees me describe the movement called solidarity you lived through short shorts a huge issue flocked to abortion movement of having read about people thought the tears that night and various methods of struggle against the owners of all these at home pour this puzzle was on a set and now to the demonstrations since respect we always failed in this novel that solidarity was athens and method that's tried no ids come this election is out of the question alan russell is the last night long millions of its soldiers and their ethnic your arms around so we had to be very cautious

and very responsible not tow the planet know what's tragedy at those were still are times when pressed it wasn't ours and payment of them came to you there were job was still far far away and then there is someone who i mean here the time when we were actually there and fighting the major struggle did you really expect that poland would be freed from communism as it was that you really expect there this really positive that that's what it was going to happen within a year it must be gm's be that in that it openly i was really asking myself at langley air the victory will dig even at what price here if there was a great support to asset and the fact that it was elected further holy father alcoholic father accelerate that process and our saw and helped us envoy of the glass shattered that was inevitable at the end of the struggle at this rally this come this would have been men that was much much later and i was had being

men met with bloodshed and the final say the role of the catholic church in this whole effort has been sort of underestimated in my world and i appreciate hearing that i'm not sure i understood it fully promises if you're a country is located between russia and generally there's a great people's opera mystique out there really badly and they wanted to visit each other's of it has fallen others to meet adams away sometimes they decided they would stay on for longer on one occasion they stayed in town and file one hundred and two years and they erased poland from the map of the world and that's when a polish identity was defended by the polish church the church of the ocean and the thrill of a player's and polish little howling masses and polish the polish people i had such a great i felt so grateful for the polish to it that you can observe that differentiation between church and

state and the people and that his country's that simple and we have had good relations many have argued that your role already had been fulfilled you've done what you had to do why did you go allman run for president i ran for president they sent their time for one reason i predicted at counter revolution that let it come out at that point about we were obliged to change that out as then set up somehow though he himself was not dangerous and if that back his surroundings where do i want to the numbers that there was a young afghans that oh yes i usually just a fun at people from all the cons countries there were at that time an economy as judgment supposedly where a young man that i imagine simply and discussing how to get rid of this

revolution happening in poland that thought i had visited there was also this happened two years later and in fact obstruct it because of the events moving along in time a little you were present at the beginning of the united states policy on expanding nato tell us about expanding nato to include your country smaller nations i look at the causes a major transmission than twofold way as some claim that said this expansion is aimed against somebody or as you mentioned it in our concepts said has always been different closing their forces like bad night on the one side and that was about the only other solutions the words of activists and of his superiority on the part of the nato summit there's this really happened and not to buy i think some other country members

in order to allocate to that possibility a word an opposing block my commands if we just go out we called her have to do with their funding situation and this is only after speaking later they're within one hundred miles and their remaining countries would have forced that your letters now than ever goes to second stage of this history and video set up in july ten and we will have than ten minutes till song by the nato and no one biden remaining so that means so no possibility of any confrontation how we can then and tear that set the stage we want we can reorganize nato for other tasks and purposes then fighting of this means that their nato expansion is seen here as an announcement for the sake of peace and those who do not support a nato enlargement expansion today at it eh

expecting and counting on a confrontation tomorrow because my car's about you and it made it easy to a creation of samuel odd law clerk where though was a no man's land where there were there's no man's land in the place where there was about pigs isn't that how we must not especially when there's the opportunity to do it out what will being a member of nato do for poland i say you have unmanned it's gonna do things for the world but what's it on to poland this week huge deficits and then entering the nato airstrike in court at least not at the same time that will secure the situation and their stability and security and mouth brian marren and involvement of the capital because godzilla will have the army generals and nine hit general martins you when

you played hardball and others were we're working to form a close expansion i'm told by experts that you somehow convinced president clinton that nato expansion was the right thing to do how was he convinced real needs of the survivors and i'm hearing the value is that i have been prisoners here that we have this as your own a piece of the senate decided that it was in fact we mostly really make sure that the security it and that sign on the inside a nato is not enough that if we failed to do this again tomorrow oh there's this really obliged at the santa fe american bars to it up toe fight and then test of benefits stay there would not be such a new tomorrow of that if we can carry out major expansion today because there won't be any nuncio that with fiat few and far between that have nothing

matches at night or that's just american interest and so here is a sin for clinton understood that and that's why he gave support to the city oh would you briefly describe the last five years say of poland's history what happened how we remembered the last five years when during the hard work right now they're following the prison because really our lives and then use us gunboats and since we have life there we not present but persaud let's ask about your one more about you why was a return to a former communist leaders in poland wanted a former communist when the presidency after year term the boy is gone this i just like i wish is they tell me that on the

outside and they have said become very creative quickly they became captain is sisson says they are among the people i call active that function for that the best thing they did that was that they privatized human cells and they will surely not suspend fighting income is and they are not they're going to share they have a capital with an annual many they will certainly defend capitalism and now on the matter of the transition to a free market economy was poland doing so much better than so many other communist countries what is the culture what what made this possible for this great progress to her from the very beginning we are much more convinced and about same benedetti open market economy and at the first says they just sent a physician's we also had bethany there's important and nebraska's changes were introduced at the very beginning lies in other countries and co says the word though was much more delicate and not grandma gradual

whereas with a citizen and diseases are you in ethiopia and as shock treatment and decisiveness have the other tips capote's he admits says why's rush experiencing such difficulties and emit in its transition to free market economy this isn't a collapse it's so horrendous lingle this is a complex problem of this year we are celebrating the eightieth anniversary of the october evolution i think they're far i'm this proves that that i know models of democracy in that not known patterns of them all we cannot find among the people who were about one that evolution happen this is suing the look of their political side of this situation as well so when we look at the economy and the situation is

and difficult for the following us policy was doing it comes as dominant over again and suddenly become she's an in economy so as so take away at a political freedoms and that may well the supply countries data dependent on her self worth less at the map degree of their economic potential wasn't aware of the same time that russia has nowhere became dominant of all this satellite countries in a hundred percent and therefore bad right now when all these outside countries and having their own way and luscious left and no net and it's left a couple of polls let me give an example of all the cooperation and when you say thirty percent of the coal oil whereas their remaining seventy percent was produced in a soviet city concentrate and focus on this russian city focused on this in they

will they will serve as a producer chapter have the hundreds of idaho addicts and then they make sixty percent will be provided by russia we're let's just heard russia known and we're going down the way carson integration with ash about with general motors car sales they are left in a very difficult situation and they have the potential to change it all these other countries that are not an economic cooperation elsewhere and it really messes that hard to stop the situation although the albatrosses russia actually really starting now well it sounds very dismal is it anything russia could learn from poland that would improve its prospects the shockwave in light of the solution seven years ago a military listen to last fall on how to have a confrontation hypnotist set into the european community that what is

possible and they get involved in economic cooperation with other an ex con his country's <unk> racially would require at the economic potential a western europe says out of that so that we're not competitive on western markets we want the bare limbs down towards the east not just the words in russian arctic either schooled there is a forester nick harmsen russia and as whit ayres same russians how a rare as the attempt was laid to help russia directly from the top by pumping mud i'm manning directly this was the waste they're the worst of the possible solutions to that problem that we search warrants against it you weren't predicted in nineteen ninety six that communism itself would be bid within five years how does that sound to you now then china and coming out of

it battle resumes take a few bad thing that the americans have this kind of an ocean and museum of communism for people to visit ideology this is that i won stand the world economy has said we're all that the problem says socialism with honors set up a baton they abound theirs and they were there that they promised they would resolve the problems and that that's how they came to support because as we all know that the sec the economists did not resolve the problems and even they added more harm to the people's night and nobody's going to support candidates not that they still social justice in the world and there's said the unemployment is growing and there's a lot of suffering there will argue people who will precisely all of these problems on them and they will gain and as fast as it will not be an

exact liane like a columnist and that's it'll be something alive unless we realize that the problems of they're how we try to solve them before hand i don't think that we are involved in solving just those problems but here i've been issued to allow for it then that activity of the chadian town into this is he had a kind of an opening through which the excess steam goes out of it and these factories should look at a song they identified must set press said the old era to the maximum instead i live in they should behave maggie the sense of period that they should not just by the body that they pass it on very few americans critically political reporters what we would have thought of labor unions as the ultimate fall of communism and the

successful full of communism in an interesting don't forget about the rwandan soldiers and sierra's snow missiles all around our economy have had that there were many other measures on the advice of the data sets that he set it to the side said that fine des if you and i'll actually not going to fight against you know he's there in flowers into the accounts of the town and to have that all the little girls says that they should know their summit soldier gets out of the tank or tacky month of you know we love you so the people you know system is badly not going to work in the system if you want to have less work for us we're going to go on strike you get the euros or the company you're writing about other countries with our money ii you tell us at all argue with the united states something we don't want their folly nothing to fight because we don't want us wants to explode the world but we are not going to go to

where they were hopeless this ideology well you've been an advisor for us and your beloved things for us as well is the united states playing a successful row in international fares especially in your part of the world are they suggested you would like go that i had to there was a different from one in an alley and incessantly expected set in their flow of american dollars and we also hope that the americans will deal with its moments in our place today the president of the country when mia speak of that european ad today they said and being the amount of the only superpower

in this world and should provide divisions in concerts of regulations the nation's levee every written because so they should be at augusta but totally neil second stanza we live now in that one all the world please eradicate settler resolutions were dangerous that they're farther that was a fear of their implementations that were essentially stolen by world every resolutions must be implemented there is no feeling and gays and limitations that the united states is going to help them in this as the readjustment of that regulations so the united nations and nato and then they're all pointed to states would be on me to demand that proper implementation and there is this is not business as yes you're playing this new well i think we have to encourage in its face to be whereas about our island would know how to the orchestration are you going to continue to work

to influence the united states to persuade other leaders i say i must say that said i am already i then convincing it needs to lop so with the americans when the german on the country a huge rallies so far i have been able to convince them that well it try to make people realize that this is their european perspective the americans there have been very good at says banning calif running their policies and i think that there will continue in twenty good but perhaps a weekend of a certain remarks certain comments one last thing to know about the like well done sir institute and the work you do there to help fledgling democracies get going it held briefly about it is that the players there as you just said

for monitoring or intimidation after the farm said that we started and that according to prove that any set me an entity and we participate in the resolution of problems well when we saw that nato expansion now says serving luskin jarrett we had concentrated focused on this issue and now when we observed to sell their knowledge and it states this ship james cotton this is precisely because of that they get involved in this that we don't say that we are i hope that we present a point in here and you know wherever we se that the house of commons the weekend a week interviewing francis bacon said therefore i gather an eye scan and also resources in order to be able to continue with this trial your candor and your insight and your wisdom whether you're always right or not are much appreciated here oh thank you

very very much for coming and that is often mama i'm not always denied that i do present my point of schiff thank you so well for more information about the guests and topics on four the record is of air station web site that avenue dot org slash w h g get them into them our jobs it's nice

it's nice production funding for four the record is provided by your new financial partner in virginia we are wachovia and we're here to build on the spring known to provide investing in banking services for individuals and businesses wachovia let's get started and by a grant from the prairie foundation to purchase a vhs copy of this program send a check for nineteen ninety five to the address on the screen or call eight zero four five six zero eight won six four please reference the program number fb

and charlie mcdowell johnny on the next for the record when i guess just like violence are living a historic movement against communism in poland won the nobel peace prize and became poland's first democratically elected president oh we're going to cairo

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