¡Colores!; Interview with Frederico Vigil Part 2

We got a follow-up on the tires, so I'm going to try to set the keys for them, because that keys are all about it. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires, so I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. That's amazing. Why did you choose something that would last? I think if somebody is going to spend time working on a project, I'm going to spend time working on a project.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. Is that my dad who loved to work with rock and plastering and things?

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires.

I'm going to try to set the keys for the tires. I have the tools. As far as I know, the drawings are really beautiful. I did a lot of drawing before and during. Mrs. Baca in the sixth grade at Manorfield told me I had talent. We had music, dance, art, was a great school. Manorfield up in the canyon road there. It has to shut down, but it was a real nice little school.

Tell me your vision of how New Mexico is depicted in the tutorial? No, that's a big question. Well, I think the idea and the vision was to figure out the mixture genetically through civilizations and through cultures. Now, who were the people here, the Native American, the Pueblo, the Tijuana, the Pueblo societies, Navajo, Apache, whatever, the indigenous people that were here, then who were the people in Spain and the Iberian Peninsula? The mixture of Iberios, that was the mother oldest maternal, the Phoenicians, Romans, Celts, Moors. They were mixed big time, more mixed than over here.

And then the genetics of Mesoamerica, Coltec, Aztec, Inca, Mayan, there's a mixture there. So as a result of that movement from one place to another, the good and the bad, but I try to look at it in a positive way, technology, foods, building materials, implements. So all of these things, as it comes from Iberios, Mesoamerica, into the Southwest, otherwise I wouldn't be here speaking with you or otherwise I would have never been able to work on that fresco of some of those genes and connecting, then occur. Yeah, can you say that last part one more time, like how does history feed now to turn in, you know, can we catch it from the middle of what you're saying there? Like you talked about the genetics coming together and then take that into the now a little more.

Well, I think the genetic mix of each civilization and society and the movement and the development of what each one had to offer, all the way to chess from the Indian society in India, the concept of the zero, India, Mayan, Mesoamerica. But those influences move to who I am, but yet they move even further. So societies change, they give, they take, they offer, and it continues moving to what degree, good or bad, we'll find out. So it's a continuum movement of genetics, ideas, societies, thinking, some leaders are good ones, and some leaders are not.

Yeah, well said. How did you know what to choose, how did you know what to paint on the wall, what to paint the designs to tell that story, how did you know? The imagery, as, as was mentioned, there was seven scholars, PhDs, and they would sit down in a conference room and dialogue. It's like going to class, I was worried fortunate because I was going to class without having to get a grade and taking notes. So each one has an interest and being a scholar, you have a, they have an interest, they have something that affects them or something that they can talk about. So I would take notes and then from there, I would, if something hit me that I think I would like, or there was a vision that I would like to pursue, I would research more. And that's the way this, this drawings, because it took a lot of drawings. I have tons of drawings and, and see how they related to each other, how they worked with the movement, to the dynamics of a curved wall, which is really complicated.

And it eventually came together. And I thought one thing was in those pillars, like they all, they look like they're, like with their toes hanging over, standing on the top thing. It looks like a pillar. And so how did, did you deal with perspectives, like, did you, where, where is the, um, fresco meant to be looked at from? Well, you can look at it from anywhere. There's no really key point because you'd see different perspectives when you're looking up this way, but you can go from each side and look directly across. But the pillars, um, interesting to mention the pillars, the pillars are actually the breakdown of mostly the societies, the Iberian Peninsula, the Mesoamerica, and the Southwest, that's three. However, the four pillars are almost directly north-south east-west. Actually they are. And that kind of, I couldn't figure out in, in my mind, how to unite a circle and a curve, because that's what it was.

So I broke it down like in a pie through the pillar, and that gave me some kind of reference us to areas and what can be painted. So is that where it breaks? Yeah, so maybe talk about fresco just a little bit more. I'm kind of curious about the, the process, like, how much could you do in a day and, you know, and, I mean, I don't know, you know, how long did it take you to complete? Let's see, started painting. First you need a wall, and then each section, painted section, has five coats of plaster. On the third one, you need, that's called the Sonopia coat. And in the Sonopia coat, before that, you have a design.

That's not telling how long it took. I had a design that was around 25 feet long, about six, seven feet high, maybe. And that was the one that was approved, finally approved. So then you get your, your design set, and you start drawing it out, and they call that Sonopia drawing to scale. And it was interesting on that, because I had a model of the Torillon made in cheap metal. And I started putting the design in there, and I was working on the design on the wall, on the fresco wall. But the curve was so much that I didn't, I didn't compensate for the curve. So when I really put it into the, into the scale model of the Torillon, I was two feet, two feet short, by 25 feet high, because that's the height of when I started to paint from eight feet up. So I was actually 50 square feet off, because of the curve. And I tell artists or anybody creating something, make sure you get a scale model of something, because it'll help you realize where your problems are.

So the curve was a big, big thing, not realizing how much line and how much space it takes. So did you have to redraw it? I had to redraw it, and it was good, because I was able to put more information. That was the good part. So that's one of the third. No, pick up. And then you do cartooning, and these are the cartoons that I have here, and they have some of the cultural center, and they vary depending on the image. So each image has probably a cartoon, which was over 100 cartoons. You transfer that, you hang that on the wall, and then you transfer that image from the synope drawing onto your tracing paper, they call it the cartoon. And when you like that, because you can work it, you can fine tune it, when you like what it looks like, because you can see it up there. That's amazing how many times you have to come up and down to see in perspective changes a lot.

It looks good in face to face, and you come down, it looks like it doesn't look good. So you redo that, and then when you really like what the cartoon, and you're happy with it, you perforate it. You loop, pin, the challenge used to use a pins, and I have a perforating wheel, new technology. And then when you're ready to paint, that's the cartoons perforated, your colors are mixed, you have two more coats of plaster, you have the fourth coat, which is the same as the third coat. It's a sand finish, and then you have an intonaco coat, that's the last one. Very fine, very beautiful. Those people that can do diamond finish, that's an intonaco coat. And when you finish that, you bring your cut it into the background, and you pounce it, and it gives, or you can use a thumbnail, because the walls wet, give you a line in direction.

And then you get your pigments, and you start to paint. The plastering takes about four hours. I was, we were starting to paint around 1230, starting very early, and it would paint till they got dark, because the light, actually the greens and the reds are hard to distinguish. So they can cover anywhere from depending on detail, 20, anywhere from 10 to 30 square feet, depending on detail. So do you have to daylight, or is there not a time of the plaster, because isn't there a limit with fresco, it'll dry on you? The best time to paint in the winter, when it's cold, and you're absolutely right, once it starts to dry, the Italians would paint with tempera, when it would dry, they would continue to tempera.

They would put egg, and use it with a pigment, but I didn't like the sheen, I like fresco natural, minus all painted with acrylics, to have a sheen or something. So I went going to Seco, ever. So can you tell me a little bit, like, you might have to repeat yourselves a little bit, and not at length necessarily, but maybe even condense it, that that part of the process is, I think that's because that's where the taller comes in, and that's where, that's kind of the... After the sonopia drawing is done, then you move that drawing into your cartotunus, and the cartotunus you can fine tune them, where they really look good, they can be taken up and down. When you like what the image looks like, you perforate the lines that you like.

Then you apply two more coats of plaster when you're ready to paint, starting early in the morning, the fourth coat, they go together, the fourth coat, and right after that, the fifth coat, intonaco coat. And that plastering process takes about four hours. Once you have the intonaco coat plastered, you bring your cartotunus back up, it needs two people. In the ceiling, we needed eight hands to hold the cartoom because of the gravity. Some of these young guys were... It took a little while, but it's tough to keep your hands up, they're trying to pound it, and if you move it an inch or something, at six or seven feet, you've got a different angle. So they really had to be on track, and several times we had to redo them. But once you pound, or you can use your thumbnail, and gives you a line and direction on the intonaco, you are ready to paint with your inorganic pigments, and then you start painting. And that is the climax, that's what a fresco painter is waiting for, because you can see the wall is craving water, and you're bringing a pigment with water, and it's pulling the water in.

And at the same time, there's an oxygen molecule going back in, in a chemical process, reverting it back to its original state, which is calcium carbonate. And that is, we are creating limestone with color, a rock with color. So could you tell me your inorganic pigments, and it doesn't have to be a long thing at all, but how do you get your colors? Well, any color to see out there driving up La Bajada, those beautiful reds, those okres, any colors that you see over there in Ghost Ranch, the stratas that they have, those can be used. It has to be inorganic, otherwise, if they're like, no, there's an exhibit about Cochinille, La Bajada, if it's organic, the line will eat it, almost immediately.

Or if you can't use it in fresco. So I get colors from wherever I go, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, and then artisans, that's good color, so they sell some good colors, but I try to get colors from wherever I go. That's a really interesting way to put it. You know, so now I'm kind of trying to think of why record it. I think the piece needs, the piece is a historical document, at least going back B.C. in many places. So when I grew up, I really didn't know my history. It took me a long time to be educated in historical facts, the mix of who we are, because, of course, you know, I'm a pro-American.

So I had to learn English, but in a lot of my parents, my grandparents never spoke English, and so they, this introduction of this American society, been American 1846, and the Treaty Walupi, the Algo, to find out the historical elements of a lot of these cultures, and to look forward to see what in the future is going to develop, because of the elements in the youth that's going to progress further on. I think that, besides the concept of fresco, that this is a fresco, and the largest concave fresco in North America, I think that would bring people to come and take a look at it and be of interest to them. I think you absolutely, how did knowing more about where you came from, how does that help you become?

When I was growing up, my grandfather was a sheep herder up in northern New Mexico, and my dad was a sheep herder also, they grew up that way. My mother's side grew up here in Golden, and they were miners in Madrid, and also worked the land. But on my father's side, very strong hermano padre sus nasa reño penitentes, because the communities were so close, so far away from, let's say Santa Fe, the main capital, and then far, far away from Mexico City, which was then the place. My dad finally, I started to realize the historical elements of my own culture. I took a while, and I said, Dad, how can we tell me all these things?

And then, as we used to go to the ranch, because we still have a ranch up north, the ritual and ceremony of some of the, I have to call it, function as social and religious elements that kept a community together, and that's just in a small community. This extends out in very, into different cultures, into different other concepts of history, and what they do, and embedded in the fresco, goes back to the Iberian Peninsula, Mesoamerica, even in here, into the indigenous, because we are mixed. And so, once I started to learn a lot of those rituals and ceremonies that belong to the way that my ancestors grew up, it meant that a lot of people will never experience that, or a lot of people won't know about them unless they're expressed. So, is it important that they are? Like how, does the fresco have something to do with, at least letting people know that that was a part of history? Like you're saying that people might not know about that?

Well, there's an image of San Isidro, San Isidro, the patron saint of the farmers. San Isidro is in the Iberian Peninsula, it's Mesoamerica, and it's here, San Isidro, as that influence was brought over, irrigation practices, the fact that we need to eat, and the fact that we're into organic, organic. The concept organic never existed, you grew your own, you raised what you had, and you ate. So, it's nice to see that kind of cycle going back into what we call now organic, because it's expensive to eat organic, unless you grow your own, and that's why I try to grow a few things I can. But then, if you see San Isidro in the fresco, he's also related to Nostropadre Jesus, Nassadenio, the Cofrede al Hermano's penitentes.

And they were, besides having San Isidro, were the political, social, they were the government, they kept a society together, as do the Native Americans in their ritual and ceremony in the Kivas, they keep the society together. They have their disciplines, they have their way, this you can do, this you cannot do. A lot of people don't follow, but it keeps society together. The ritual and ceremony, and knowing your history.