New Mexico in Focus; 635; New Mexico's Permanent Funds and Early Childhood Education

>> PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. INFOCUS, GOVERNMENT REFORM EFFORTS IN SANTA FE. >> HOW FAR ARE LAWMAKERS WILLING TO GO FOR GOOD GOVERNMENT? >> I THINK THE HOUSE HAS BEEN QUITE EFFICIENT IN PASSING THE BILLS. SENATE HAS BEEN SLOW. >> AND NEW MEXICO MAKERS. WOMAN WHO HELP MAKE THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT THE PLACE IT IS TODAY. >> NEW MEXICO INFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> MANY OF YOU THIS WEEK WILL CATCH THE DOCUMENTARY, MAKERS, WOMEN WHO MAKE AMERICA. OVER THE NEXT THREE WEEKS, WE WILL HIGHLIGHT NEW MEXICO MAKERS.J. STARTING THIS WEEK WITH ARTIST, WITH JUDY CHICAGO, FROM HER BELEN STUDIO, OUR CREW HEADS NORTH TO THE CAPITOL, TO SPEAK TO LAWMAKERS ABOUT A PLAN TO TAKE MORE MONEY FROM THE STATE'S PERMANENT FUND TO PAY FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION. THE LINE IS IN WITH A LOOK AT WHAT SOME NOTABLE LEGISLATIVE

MEASURES THAT DIDN'T PASS THIS WEEK SAY ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S CULTURAL LANDSCAPE. AND THE OPINION PANEL ALSO EXAMINES MORE HIGH PROFILE HEADLINES FOR POTENTIAL ALBUQUERQUE POLICE MISSED CUES. >> WE BEGIN WITH REFORM IN SANTA FE AND THE PUSH TO BETTER DEFINE GOOD GOVERNMENT. >> JOINING US AT THE TABLE THIS WEEK TO TALK GOOD GOVERNMENT AND SO MUCH MORE, IS FORMER COMMERCIAL DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH, JAMIE ESTRADA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR THE CENTER FOR CIVIC POLICY, OUR FRIEND JAVIER BENAVIDEZ. COFOUNDER OF THE WEBSITE, NEW MEXICO COMPASS AND FORMER MANAGING EDITOR OF THE WEEKLY ALIBI, MARGARET WRIGHT. FIRST TIME AT THE TABLE WELCOME. EDITOR IN CHIEF -- GOT A FIST PUMP OUT OF THAT -- NEW MEXICO LAW REVIEW SOPHIE MARTIN IS HERE. YOU DO REMEMBER THIS, AFTER A FAKE AUDIT SURFACED, LAWMAKERS STARTED TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE AGENCY SET UP TO PROVIDE LOW COST FINANCING FOR PUBLIC PROJECTS AND CITIES AND COUNTIES AROUND THE STATE. ADMIRABLE MISSION, CERTAINLY. NOW THE SENATE PASSED A MEASURE TO STRIP SOME POWER FROM THE GOVERNOR AND

PLACE IT IN HANDS OF LAWMAKERS WHEN IT COMES TO APPOINTING BOARD MEMBERS TO OVERSEE THE AGENCY. JAVIER, I GOT TO GO TO YOU FIRST. INTERESTING, WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS WILL DO? ONE THING ALONE, WE'LL START THERE, JUST PLUCKING SOME OF THE POWER FROM THE GOVERNOR AND SPREAD IT AROUND THE LEGISLATURE A LITTLE BIT, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THAT? IT IS A TOUGH BALANCE, TRYING TO BALANCE THE POLITICAL ABILITY OF THE GOVERNOR AND MAKING APPOINTMENTS WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE TO REALLY EXECUTE AS IMPORTANT A BOARD AS NMFA, WHICH MAKES CRITICAL INVESTMENTS IN PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS AROUND THE STATE AND AT NO TIME HAS IT BEEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN RIGHT NOW WHEN WE'RE IN THIS RECESSION AND NOT SEEING THE INVESTMENT FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE. >> STAY WITH THE GOVERNOR. I DON'T ANTICIPATE TOO MUCH TUSSLE OVER THIS. COULD BE DEAD WRONG, BUT BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE A POWER GRAB, SHE WANTS TO RESIST THIS. IS THIS THE WAY TO GO? >> IT IS ACTUALLY A HALLMARK OF GOOD GOVERNANCE THAT YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD THAT COME FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES,

SO, SOME COME FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND FROM THE GOVERNOR AND IN SOME WAYS, I AM SURE THIS IS NOT THE MOTIVATING FORCE FOR THE GOVERNOR IN TERMS OF HOW SHE DEALS WITH THIS, BUT IT IS TOUGH TO HAVE A SITUATION IN BUT, THIS IS ALL YOU. THESE PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO, THIS ACTUALLY IN SOME WAYS IT MAY BE A LOSS OF POWER BUT PROVIDES POLITICAL COVERAGE IF THINGS GO SOUTH AGAIN. >> LET ME ASK YOU, NMFA STILL SORT OF A MYSTERY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. JAVIER MAKES A GOOD POINT, IMPORTANT ISSUES FOR MUNIS AND CITIES AROUND THE STATE. PUBLIC SOMETIMES DOESN'T QUITE PAY ATTENTION TO THESE KIND OF THINGS TOO CLOSELY, BUT, AGAIN, IS THIS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO HERE? IS THE PUBLIC GOING TO BE SATISFIED WITH THE CHANGES? INFORMED AND SECURE ENOUGH THAT SOME CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE BUILT IN, AS FAR AS TAKING SOME OF THE GOVERNOR'S OVERSIGHT AND SPREADING OUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY, LIKE YOU SAID, THEN THERE WILL BE, I

THINK, A SUBSTANTIVE EFFECT ON THE MOODY'S RATING FOR THE STATE AND PEOPLE WILL SEE LOCAL AND PUBLIC PROJECTS HAVING BETTER FUNDING. >> THAT IS MY QUESTION, IS IT GOING TO BE BETTER, THE SAME, WORSE, YOU KNOW, JAMIE TAKE A CUT AT THAT ONE TOO? INTERESTING THE FACES MAY CHANGE BUT IT IS NOT AS IF THE AGENCY WAS DOING SOMETHING TERRIBLY WRONG OUTSIDE OF THAT FAKE AUDIT, YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN? IT WASN'T THEY WERE FALLING DOWN ON THE JOB OUTSIDE OF THAT. >> THEY HAVE SEVERAL COMMITTEE WAS THE ONE THAT FAILED. AND FORTUNATELY THIS COMMITTEE WAS COMPRISED OF NUMBERS OF THE GOVERNOR'S CABINET, WHO DID NOT ATTEND AND ARE ON RECORD AS NOT ATTENDING THE NMFA MEETINGS. I THINK SOME OF THE CABINET MEMBERS ARE QUITE HAPPY TO BE RELIEVED OF THEIR DUTIES AND NOT SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, I DO NOT NEED TO ATTEND THIS ONE. LET ME FOCUS ON THE JOB I WAS APPOINTED TO DO. AND, LET OTHER PROFESSIONALS -- I HOPE THAT IS THE PERCEPTION. I HOPE THAT NOBODY LOOKS AT

THIS AS A KIND OF A POWER GRAB AWAY FROM THE GOVERNOR. I THINK SENATOR KELLER TENDS TO HAVE THESE BILLS JUST LIKE HE DID WITH SIC REFORM BILL HE PROPOSED, TO TAKE THE GOVERNOR FROM THE SIC, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THIS IS DIFFERENT. ESPECIALLY WITH REACTION TO WHAT HAPPENED THIS SUMMER. >> DIFFERENT BUT NOT REALLY, ANOTHER GOOD GOVERNANCE EFFORT IS PUBLIC REGULATIONS COMMISSION. THE VOTERS HAVE SPOKEN AND WANTED CHANGE. THIS FOLLOWED SOME SCANDAL AND SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHAT VOTERS ARE LOOKING TO DO TO CHANGE, BUT IT CAME DOWN TO QUALIFICATIONS AND WE HAVE A HOUSE VERSION, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM THE SENATE VERSION WE HAVE OUT THERE, BUT BOTH VERSIONS ARE CLEARLY HEADED TOWARDS YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO BRING MORE TO THE TABLE TO QUALIFY FOR THIS POSITION NOW. ARE WE AT LEAST AT THAT POINT NOW, WE CAN FEEL COMFORTABLE SOMETHING GOING TO HAPPEN? >> I DON'T THINK SO, I THINK AT THIS POINT TOO NERVOUS ABOUT IT. THERE IS LESS TWO WEEKS GOING BEFORE -- THE TIME IS RUNNING OUT TO TAKE ACTION. I THINK THE HOUSE HAS BEEN QUITE EFFICIENT IN PASSING GOOD BILLS, SENATE HAS BEEN SLOW AND IT SEEMS TO ME THEY

ARE MAYBE SLOWING THE PROCESS DOWN. REMEMBER THEY DITCHED MICHAEL SANCHEZ -- TO A CRAWL TO PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT OUT OF THE SENATE. WHICH IS A SHAME AND I THINK THE SENATE NEEDS TO ACT. IT IS MULTIFACETED. NOT JUST ABOUT THE QUALIFICATIONS OF COMMISSIONERS, BUT AGAIN ON THIS ONE THE SENATE PASSED A BAD BILL, THAT THE HOUSE PASSED A GOOD ONE. I THINK THE HOUSE SHOULD RECONCILE TOO OR THE SENATE SHOULD RECONCILE TOO, ABOUT THE INSURANCE COMMISSIONERS, BECAUSE AT THIS POINT IF WE DON'T PASS THE BILL ABOUT REFORMING THE INSURANCE COMMISSION OR MAKING THAT A PART OF A NOMINATING BODY THAT NOMINATES THAT PERSON, AND SAY SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THE CURRENT INSURANCE COMMISSIONER, AND NO BILL IS PASSED, WE DON'T HAVE AN INSURANCE COMMISSIONER OR A WAY TO A MAKE THAT PERSON PUT THAT PERSON IN OFFICE. THIS IS ANOTHER GOOD GOVERNMENT THING, SENATE NEEDS TO ACT. >> SURE. WHAT JAMIE IS DESCRIBING IS

PROCESS. AND, WHAT WE NEED ARE RESULTS. VOTERS LOOKING FOR RESULT HERE, NOT JUST ON THE ETHICS STUFF BUT JUST FEELING LIKE, WHAT WAS FACING UP THERE, SITTING UP THERE, FACING ATTORNEYS, WHOEVER ELSE, FROM INDUSTRY, WE HAVE A FAIR SHOT HERE. WHICH BILL, HOUSE OR SENATE SIDE ACHIEVES THAT GOAL TO YOU? >> I ACTUALLY THINK THEY BOTH HEAD IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. WHAT IT DOES FEEL TO ME, THOUGH, THAT THERE IS MOMENTUM BEHIND THESE IDEAS, BOTH WITH AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION AND NOW WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE. I AGREE WE NEED TO SORT OF FINISH THIS. NOW. VOTERS NEED TO SEE THAT AND WE NEED THAT IN ORDER TO RUN THE ORGANIZATIONS AND OUR GOVERNMENT. YOU KNOW, I CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THE PRC, THIS SORT OF 18 HEADED HIGH DRY, FEWER THAN THAT, HAS RUN SO MUCH OF THIS STATE AND HAS DONE UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF IT KIND OF NOT ALL THE WAY, NOT AS WELL AS IT COULD HAVE, WE'RE READY.

IT IS TIME FOR US TO HAVE GOOD GOVERNMENT, SAME THING WITH THE FINANCE AUTHORITY. >> SURE, JAVIER, ANOTHER QUESTION WE MIGHT BE READY FOR, I ASK YOU THIS DIRECTLY, THIS IS ALWAYS INTERESTING TO ME, THIS IDEA IF WE RAISE THE STANDARD, MINORITY PEOPLE WILL BE SHUT OUT. WHY DOES THIS KEEP HANGING ON IN OUR CULTURE? >> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IT IS A TOUGH BALANCE. THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD EXCLUDE 85% OF THE POPULATION IF IT IS BASED ON THEIR EDUCATION, OR, YOU KNOW, VERY SPECIFIC EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. BUT, THERE ARE WAYS TO INCORPORATE ETHICS TRAINING OR CONTINUING EDUCATION TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE AT THE PRC. I GOT TO WORK WITH THE PRC WHEN I WAS CONSERVATION VOTERS OF NEW MEXICO AND JASON MARKS WAS ON THE PRC AND BEN RAY LUJAN AND THEY WERE AMAZING WHEN IT CAME TO RENEWABLE ENERGY, PORTFOLIO STANDARD OUR STATE'S CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE ENGINEERING DEGREE BUT

CONTRIBUTED A TON AND HAD NO PROBLEM HAULING INSURANCE COMPANY EXECUTIVES INTO THEIR OFFICE TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. >> LET ME COME BACK TO MINORITY. DO YOU THINK THERE ARE PLENTY OF QUALIFIED MINORITY FOLKS OUT THERE? LINDA LOVEJOY, WROTE EDITORIAL ABOUT THIS IN JOURNAL. SAYING THERE ARE PLENTY OF FOLKS OUT THERE QUALIFIED. IS THIS A SPECIOUS ARGUMENT? >> I HADN'T HEARD THAT. I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENT. I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO STILL ACCOMPLISH QUITE A GREAT DEAL WITHOUT NECESSARILY THESE ACADEMIC -- THESE RIGID GUIDELINES. >> SURE. ARE WE IN DANGER OF GETTING TO THE POINT THAT PERHAPS WE GET THROUGH A CYCLE, WE SEE WHO IS QUALIFIED, WHO IS APPLYING MORE LIKELY. YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT THIS 12 YEARS COMBO THING. THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THIS THAT SEEM SQUISHY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT QUALIFICATIONS. IS THIS A DEAL WE HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT AS WE GO ALONG DOWN THE ROAD? >> I THINK SO. THERE ARE LOOPHOLES THAT COME

UP IN THE LEGISLATION THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT WHETHER VETERANS WOULD QUALIFY OR WHETHER YOU WOULD QUALIFY. >> I DON'T QUALIFY. UNDER THE SENATE BILL. >> THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE ACHIEVED DURING THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND COULD BE PART OF WHY THEY ARE HELD UP. >> WHY WOULDN'T YOU QUALIFY? >> BECAUSE, FIRST OF ALL, I MAY HAVE MBA, BUT I DON'T HAVE A CPA. I AM NOT A JD. IT GIVES A LOT OF CREDIT TO THOSE KIND OF EXPERIENCES, GIVES CREDIT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS, THAT HAVE BUSINESS RELATED TO PRC, REGULATED ACTIVITIES. BUT THE REASON I REALLY DON'T QUALIFY IS BECAUSE IT GIVES CREDIT TO STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT -- ROLES IN STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT. IF YOU MANAGED AN AGENCY OR DIVISION FOR THREE YEARS, IN STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT YOU QUALIFY. I HAPPENED TO MANAGE A FEDERAL AGENCY THAT HAD OVERSIGHT OVER TELECOM AND ENERGY AND I AM NOT GIVEN CREDIT. >> IN A MOMENT ASKING FOR

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS NOW TO FUND EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND AT WHAT COST TO THE FUTURE? MAYOR BERRY FIGURES HIS CORE CONSTITUENCY IS ENOUGH OF A LAW AND ORDER CONSTITUENCY THAT THEY WILL OVERLOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN APD OR THEY WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT SCHULTZ AND CONTINUE TO SUPPORT BERRY, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE EVERYDAY THE NEWS GETS WORSE FOR APD. >> THIS YEAR AS IN THE LAST, THERE IS A CALL AT THE CAPITOL TO PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO INCREASE PAYOUTS FOR THE STATE PERMANENT FUND. IF THE MEASURE PASSES AND VOTERS APPROVE IT, MORE MONEY WOULD BE TAKEN FROM THE FUND NOW TO HELP PAY FOR A MASSIVE EFFORT TO INCREASE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION. HERE IS NMIF PRODUCER MATT GRUBS. >> ALLEN SANCHEZ, YOU'RE AMONG THOSE ASKING TO DO THIS EXTRA DISBURSEMENT AND AS YOU CALL

IT THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP, SENATE FINANCE, WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE? >> WHAT IS AT STAKE IS REALLY THE FUTURE OF THE STATE. WE HEAR PEOPLE SAY THAT WE OUGHT TO PROTECT THE FUTURE. WE NEED A HEALTHY FUND AND WE CAN DO BOTH, WE CAN HAVE A HEALTHY FUND AND HEALTHY CHILDREN. IN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE BECOME ARE RINGING. THIS WEEK WE FIND OUT THAT WE RANK HIGHEST IN TEEN BIRTHS IN THE NATION. WE ALSO FOUND OUT THAT 71% OF ALL OUR BIRTHS IN NEW MEXICO ARE ON MEDICAID. THOSE ARE CHILDREN BEING BORN INTO POVERTY AND THE OTHER BIG ALARM WHICH WE REALLY NUMB TO IS THE GRADUATION RATE. 40% OF OUR CHILDREN DO NOT GRADUATE. THIS IS AN EMERGENCY AND IMAGINE A DECADE OR TWO OF THAT, WE WILL HAVE A HUGE POPULATION THAT IS NOT EMPLOYABLE OR UNDER EMPLOYABLE. >> AS WE LOOK AT THIS PLAN, IS THERE ANOTHER DISBURSEMENT OF THIS SIZE, SOMEWHERE ELSE, WITH SOME OTHER BIG FUND THAT YOU CAN POINT TO THAT IS

TAKING 6.5% THAT THE CORPUS, THE PRINCIPAL, OF THAT FUND ISN'T BEING DAMAGED? >> THERE IS MANY STATES THAT HAVE PERMANENT FUNDS, SOME HAVE SPENT IT ALL THE WAY TO ZERO INVESTING IN HUMAN CAPITAL AND THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE BETTER OUTCOMES IN READING AND BETTER WELL-BEING FOR CHILDREN. WE RANK 49TH IN CHILDREN'S WELL-BEING. SO, SOME FUNDS HAVE BEEN DEPLETED. WE'RE NOT ASKING TO DEPLETE IT. WE LOOK AT THE RETURNS, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF IT. THE RETURN IN THE LAST 10 YEARS INCLUDING THE 2008 CRASH, HAS BEEN 11% GROWTH AFTER DISTRIBUTION TO THE BENEFICIARIES. LAST YEAR ALONE, IT WAS 14 AND-A-HALF, SO, THE ETHICAL ISSUE FOR US, HOW MUCH DO YOU ACTUALLY SAVE OF INTEREST EARNED AND WHAT IS THE CUSHION YOU NEED THERE? SO, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LIKE FOUNDATIONS, THEY ARE STAGNANT. THEY DON'T HAVE TWO SOURCES OF REVENUE AS THIS FUND DOES, BECAUSE THIS FUND GROWS EVEN BY A GREATER AMOUNT BY GAS AND OIL ROYALTIES. THOSE GAS AND OIL ROYALTIES WILL CONTINUE TO GO INTO THAT

FUND AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT LEAVING A 1 TO 2%, SOME YEARS ARE 3% CUSHION OF GROWTH, JUST FROM THE INTEREST. SO, WE CHALLENGE WHAT THE SIC ANALYSIS IS BECAUSE THEY USE A BLOATED INFLATION RATE, AND IN THAT ANALYSIS THEY ARE NOT USING GAS AND OIL ROYALTIES. WITH THE PROPOSITION WE'RE PROPOSING, THE FUND WILL DOUBLE. BY 2031 IT WILL HAVE DOUBLED EVEN THOUGH WE'RE TAKING THAT MONEY OUT. IT WILL GROW SLOWER AND THIS IS THE QUESTION, IF WE DO NOTHING, EVEN IF WE STOP TAKING ANY MONEY OUT, LET'S SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO DRAW ANY MONEY WHATSOEVER, IN 15 YEARS, THAT FUND WILL HAVE LOST POWER, BECAUSE THE NEED IS OUTGROWING THE PACE OF THE FUND. REGARDLESS OF WHAT RETURN YOU WOULD HAVE, THE NEED IN OUR STATE IS OUTGROWING THE CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE PARADIGM SHIFT AND PUT THE STATE BACK ON TRACK IS NOW. AND, THIS MONEY HAS HAD A 10

YEAR SUNSET ON IT, WILL BEGIN US DOWN THAT ROAD. THE SCIENCE IS THERE AND BASICALLY WE'RE STATING, THE ARCHAIC FORMULA HAS TO CATCH UP WITH THE SCIENCE. IT IS INEVITABLE THAT OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM CATCHES UP WITH THE RESEARCH AND SCIENCE THAT EDUCATION BEGINS AT BIRTH AND ALSO IN PRENATAL. >> THE POLITICS HAS TO CATCH UP WITH THIS TOO. >> POLITICS. >> AS I TALK TO SENATORS ABOUT THIS, THEY ARE AWARE OF A STUDY THAT YOU DID, THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THAT IS BEHIND THIS, THEIR CONCERN IS THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T UNDERSTAND AND THAT THE PUBLIC IS MORE LIKELY TO VOTE FOR THIS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS GOOD, SOUNDS LIKE A WORTHY INVESTMENT. THEN THEY SAY, TAKE A LOOK AT LAST TIME WE DID THIS; 2003. >> FUND HAS GROWN TREMENDOUSLY. FROM 2003, WITH THAT 5.8 PULL-OFF, IT HAS GROWN TREMENDOUSLY. >> WHAT HAVE WE GOTTEN FROM IT? >> RETAINED TEACHERS AND HAVE SEEN A BUMP IN READING AND MATH BUT THAT IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK SO

THERE HAVE BEEN PROVABLE WE RETAIN GOOD TEACHERS AND PAID A LITTLE BIT BETTER SALARY SO THESE PEOPLE CAN HAVE A HIGHER QUALITY OF LIFE AND BE ABLE TO GO AND TEACH THE CHILDREN. THIS IS IMPORTANT. BUT, OUR CHALLENGE -- ESPECIALLY FOR THE LEADERSHIP IN THE SENATE FINANCE, WHO I HEARD MANY TIMES SAY, YOU KNOW, WELL IF WE GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE, THEY ARE NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING THE DECISION. HOW INTERESTING. THESE ARE THE VERY SAME PEOPLE CAPABLE OF ELECTING THEM. IF THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DISCERNING WHO IS THE GOOD SENATOR AND REPRESENTATIVE, THEY ARE CAPABLE OF MANAGING THE MONEY OF THE STATE BECAUSE IT IS THE PEOPLES' MONEY AND THIS IS WHY IT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. IT IS WRITTEN INTO THE CONSTITUTION THAT IT IS NOT THE LEGISLATURE OR THE GOVERNOR WHO DECIDES HOW THAT IS SPENT. IT IS THE PEOPLE. THE QUESTION BEFORE THE LEGISLATORS AND THIS IS WHERE THE MISTAKE IS. WHEN YOU HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IN FRONT OF YOU, THE QUESTION IS THIS, IS THIS WORTHY OF A PUBLIC DEBATE? THAT SHOULD BE THE DISCUSSION AMONG THE LEGISLATORS, IS THIS WORTHY OF A PUBLIC DEBATE, NOT DO I WANT TO KEEP THIS OR NOT.

>> IT IS EASY TO SEE WHY THIS IS AN ATTRACTIVE PROPOSITION. IT ADDRESSES AN AREA OF GREAT NEED IN NEW MEXICO. BUT, WHY DOES IT GIVE SOME LAWMAKERS LEGITIMATE PAUSE? >> THE TERM PERMANENT, THE PERMANENT FUND IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. THESE FUNDS -- THERE IS TWO DIFFERENT PERMANENT FUNDS WE HAVE. TAX AND LAND GRANT. THOSE WERE DEVELOPED MANY YEARS AGO FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE FUTURE FOR NEW MEXICO WHEN OUR EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES WERE NO LONGER VIABLE. IF WE START MESSING AROUND WITH THE PERMANENT FUND WE WON'T HAVE A PERMANENT FUND, WE'LL HAVE SOMETHING ELSE. ENDOWMENTS TYPICALLY NEVER TAKE MORE THAN ABOUT 5% OUT OF THE PROCEEDS, THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAGIC NUMBER THAT STANFORD UNIVERSITY OR ANY MAJOR ENDOWMENT USES AND WHEN YOU START GOING MUCH ABOVE THAT 5% NUMBER, YOU START DAMAGING THE CORPUS OF THE FUND AND IF YOU DO THAT, THEN MY GRANDKIDS OR GREAT GRANDKIDS WON'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THAT PERMANENT FUND AND THOSE REVENUES. THAT IS A BIG FUND AND SOUNDS

ATTRACTIVE TO TAKE THAT MONEY OUT TO USE FOR OTHER USES AND THOSE ARE GOOD USES. EVERYTHING THEY WANT TO DO AS FAR AS EARLY CHILDHOOD AND SO FORTH, THOSE ARE GOOD CONCEPTS. I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE NEED, BUT PERMANENT FUND IS ALL ABOUT AN ENDOWMENT. IT IS ALL ABOUT SAVING FOR THE LONG TERM FUTURE OF THE STATE. >> PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE IDEA HAVE SPOKEN TO, SAY THAT THIS ACTS LIKE AN ENDOWMENT BUT REALLY ISN'T SINCE IT IS ALWAYS GETTING MONEY IN FROM ROYALTIES, OIL AND NATURAL GAS, GRAZING ON PUBLIC LAND. >> BUT IT IS A PERMANENT FUND. IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE INITIAL STAGE BACK WHEN THE FIRST FUNDS WERE EARLY PART OF LAST CENTURY, FIRST ONE. LATER YEARS, WE CAME UP WITH A SECOND PERMANENT FUND. THEY ARE PERMANENT. THEY ARE ENDOWMENTS. THEY ARE NOT TO BE TOUCHED AS FAR AS THE CORPUS. WHEN YOU TAKE 6.5%, YOU START TO TAP INTO THE MEAT OF THE FUND. YOU TAKE MORE THAN WHAT THE EARNING LEVEL LONG-TERM TYPICALLY PERCEIVED TO BE. SOMEWHERE AGAIN AROUND THE 5%

IS CONSIDERED TO BE THE REASONABLE AMOUNT YOU CAN TAKE OUT OF ENDOWMENT AND NOT START TO AFFECT THE GROWTH OF THE FUND OR THE STABILITY OF THE FUND. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. WE WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING 50 YEARS FROM NOW OR 75 YEARS FROM NOW WHEN I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT, I WON'T BE AROUND, BUT THE FACTS ARE MY GRANDKIDS WILL BE AND THEY'LL BE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN AND WHAT THEIR NEEDS FOR EDUCATION AND SO FORTH ARE. WE MAY NOT HAVE OIL AND GAS THEN AND IF WE DON'T, WE WILL HAVE THE PERMANENT FUND TO OFFSET THOSE EXTRACTIVES. >> NEED FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION IS THERE? >> ABSOLUTELY. I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WE HAVE NEED FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD. NOT OPPOSED TO THAT. I THINK THAT THIS IS KIND OF LIKE A LINE IN THE SAND WE NEED TO DRAW BECAUSE THOSE ARE VERY SACRED. WE HAVE GOT ONE OF THE BEST PERMANENT FUNDS IN THE NATION. WE HAVE GOT THE BEST FUTURE IN THE NATION IF YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, IF WE DON'T MESS AROUND WITH SOMETHING THAT WILL HELP US GET PAST THAT POINT IN TIME WHEN WE DON'T

HAVE THOSE EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES TO CARRY THE BURDEN OF ALL OF OUR OF EDUCATION AND OUR STATE BUDGET AND SO FORTH. >> HOW DOES IT MAKE HER FEEL ABOUT WHAT MEN DID, LOOK AT WHAT MEN'S ART WAS, NOW AND THEN MAYBE SEE A WOMAN, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO A WOMAN AND HER OWN SENSE OF WHAT SHE CAN BE AND DO? >> ALBUQUERQUE POLICE HAVE ADMITTED RECRUITING CLASSES HAVE DWINDLED SINCE A STRING OF SHOOTINGS BY OFFICERS BEGAN AND AS APD DEALS WITH A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATION OF ITS USE OF DEPARTMENT HAS TO DEAL WITH ALL THE OTHER BUSINESS OF BEING A METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT. CASE IN POINT, RECENT STORY BY THE JOURNAL'S JEFF PROCTOR HIGHLIGHTED AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION INTO THE POSSIBILITY THAT SUPERVISORS MAY HAVE BEEN DRINKING ON CALL OR THE RESIGNATION OF AN

OFFICER FOR ALLEGEDLY BEATING HIS WIFE IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN. OR, THE ON-DUTY ACCIDENT IN WHICH IT APPEARS A SERGEANT RAN A RED LIGHT BEFORE BROADSIDING AN SUV KILLING A VERY YOUNG WOMAN. SOPHIE, THERE IS MAYORAL ELECTION COMING UP. RICHARD BERRY HAS BEEN STANDING BY HIS MAN, CHIEF RAY SCHULTZ THROUGH ALL THIS. DO YOU SEE A REASON AT THIS POINT TO STEP ASIDE OR IS THIS ANOTHER CASE OF LIKE THE DOMINOES JUST HAVE TO KEEP FALLING A LITTLE MORE? >> IT IS A GOOD QUESTION. CRAZY SHUTDOWN OF I-40 HE WAS ON THE RADIO WITH CHIEF SCHULTZ. THEY WERE A PAIR SPREADING THE NEWS ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THAT. HE HAS NOT APPEARED TO DISTANCE HIMSELF REALLY AT ALL FROM THE CHIEF. AND, I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT MAYOR BERRY FIGURES THAT HIS CORE CONSTITUENCY IS ENOUGH OF A LAW AND ORDER CONSTITUENCY THEY WILL OVERLOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN APD OR CONTINUE TO SUPPORT SCHULTZ AND BERRY. BUT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE EVERYDAY THE NEWS GETS WORSE FOR APD.

IT IS REALLY THE IMAGING. >> YOUR SENSE OF THIS AS WELL. THE POLITICS. WE WILL GET TO INDIVIDUAL STORIES HERE BUT THE POLITICS FOR THE MAYOR RIGHT NOW IS -- >> RIGHT, WELL, I MEAN I THINK IT IS A REALLY DIFFICULT TIGHT ROPE LINE HE IS WALKING STRING OF STORIES ARE SYMPTOMATIC OF A BIGGER PROBLEM WHICH IS CULTURAL CHANGES THAT HAVE TO TAKE PLACE WITH THE DEPARTMENT. AND THOSE WOULD BE HARD, DIFFICULT PAINFUL THAT I DON'T THINK THE MAYOR WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN GOING THROUGH DURING AN ELECTION SEASON. IT WOULD BE EXCEPTIONAL FOR HIM TO CONFRONT THAT HEAD ON. >> INTERESTING. >> JAVIER, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE DOJ IS NOW ANNOUNCING PUBLIC MEETINGS, LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND TELL THEIR STORIES LITERALLY. AS MARGARET MENTIONED OTHER THINGS ARE GOING ON BESIDES THIS FOR THE MAYOR. LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT, YOUR SENSE OF THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT THEY MAY HAVE TO SAY TO THE TO DOJ AND HOW IT IMPACTS

THE MAYOR'S AND CHIEF'S STANDING. >> IT HAS BEEN A REAL STRUGGLE I THINK THE PUBLIC IS ASKING FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. ANY ORGANIZATION OPERATING WITHOUT THOSE CORE VALUES IS LOST. AND, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, WE HAVE OUTPACED MUCH BIGGER CITIES AS FAR AS POLICE SHOOTINGS EVEN NEW YORK CITY AND INTERESTING FOR PEOPLE -- ALBUQUERQUE IS A MORE VIOLENT CITY OR ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS CITY, I DON'T HAVE THAT FEELING. IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS A CULTURAL ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN ON AND ADDRESSED. THERE ARE BAD APPLES, THERE IS ALSO GOOD APPLES, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED AND THE MAYOR ORIGINALLY CEDED RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT ALL TO DARREN WHITE, THE CHIEF PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER. >> WHAT IS YOUR SENSE? WE HAD A TRAGEDY ON THE WESTSIDE WITH SERGEANT RUNNING A RED LIGHT AND KILLING A YOUNG WOMAN, 20 YEARS OLD.

HER SISTER WAS DRIVING THE CAR AS WELL AND, IT IS SUCH A TRAGEDY, THIS STORY, AND THERE IS SO MANY THINGS ABOUT IT SHOW THAT IT IS HARD TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS INTERNALLY AT APD FOR THE REST OF US TO GLEAN HOW THEY ARE DOING. THAT CULTURE. IS THERE A BREACH THERE? DO WE NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE FOLKS? >> I JUST HEARD, FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO WHETHER THERE WAS A DWI TEST OR WHAT THE RESULTS WERE AND THAT IS A CHALLENGE. I THINK ABOUT A LOT OF PROBLEMS -- >> THE OFFICER INVOLVED IN THAT CRASH? >> RIGHT. WILL BE RESOLVED THROUGH LAWSUITS THAT WE TAXPAYERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR, SO, THERE IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT REMAINS TOO BE ANSWERED. >> WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS BY PROTOCOL WITH APD IF THERE IS AN ACCIDENT, YOU DO GET TESTED, HOWEVER, BY APD RULES, THAT STAYS INTERNAL. THE PUBLIC IS NOT PRIVY TO THAT INFORMATION, SO WE MAY NEVER KNOW IF THAT OFFICER WAS IN FACT IMPAIRED OR NOT. IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT

GIVES PEOPLE NOT A LOT OF CONFIDENCE. >> I THINK THE OUTCRY IS GOING ARE MADE AWARE OF THIS ISSUE AND, FRANKLY, BEFORE THIS TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED, IT IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ISSUE I THINK, I HAVE HEARD, IN THE MAYORAL ELECTION AND I AM HEARING MORE AND MORE ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SHOCKED, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SHOCKED THAT IT HAPPENED BUT THEY ARE ALSO NOT SHOCKED THAT -- BECAUSE THEY OBSERVED IT. PEOPLE HAVE OBSERVED COPS TURNING ON LIGHTS AND DOING THIS STUFF AND THEN TURNING THEM OFF JUST TO GET THROUGH THINGS AND THEY ARE GOING WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT? IS THAT REALLY AN OFFICIAL REASON FOR DOING THAT? >> I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THAT UP, JAMIE, FOR SOPHIE, WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, HE WAS OFF HIS SHIFT, TWO HOURS PREVIOUSLY, THERE WAS NO NOTE OF WHERE THIS ALLEGED DRUNK DRIVER HE SAW. AND HE DIDN'T CALL IT IN TO DISPATCH. >> HE WASN'T ACTUALLY ON A CALL AT THAT MOMENT AND AFTERWARDS, IT IS OH I AM ON CODE 2 OR 3 AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU KNOW THAT IS HOW THE PERCEPTIONS I HAVE -- THAT IS

WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. AND, THESE YOUNG WOMEN, ONE VERY SERIOUSLY INJURED, THE OTHER, AS WE DISCUSSED, KILLED, I FEEL THE CITY HAS REALLY KIND OF TAKEN TO HEART WHAT A TRAGEDY THAT IS AND I WANT TO SAY, YOU USE THE WORD TRAGEDY, I USE THE WORD TRAGEDY, AND I DON'T MEAN TO IMPLY THAT SOMEONE ISN'T TO BLAME OR THAT THERE ISN'T FAULT HERE OR THAT IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PREVENTED. I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE CASE. BUT, IT IS REALLY CHALLENGING WHEN WE COME UP AGAINST THIS SORT OF FEELING THAT APD IS NOT GOING TO BE FORTHRIGHT WITH US ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. I AM SORT OF REMINDED ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, BECAUSE THIS DISCUSSION AROUND THIS COMMUNITY AND AROUND THIS TABLE FOR SO MANY YEARS NOW, SOMEBODY WHO SAID, I THINK THAT PEOPLE IN ALBUQUERQUE ALL TRUST APD. AND EVERYONE AROUND THE TABLE GOING LIKE THAT. AND, I THINK THAT THAT LACK OF TRUST, YEAH, PROBABLY THERE

ARE PEOPLE WHO DO TRUST APD. SO MANY MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY HAVE LEARNED THE HARD WAY THAT IT IS NOT A WELL RUN OR UNIFORMLY GREAT ORGANIZATION. >> ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THAT, I DO THINK THAT AN IMPORTANT ISSUE WAS RAISED RECENTLY WHEN THE ALBUQUERQUE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION HEAD MENTIONED THAT IN ONE OF THEIR INTERNAL UNION SURVEYS THAT 80% OF THEIR RESPONDENTS SAID THAT MORALE IS LOW IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND WE HAVE CHARGED THESE PEOPLE, THESE PUBLIC SERVANTS, WITH AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT JOB AND I THINK IF ALL OF THESE ISSUES RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW -- WHAT CAN WE AS A COMMUNITY DO TO FORCE BETTER CITIZEN ACCOUNTABILITY, TO OPEN UP A DOOR OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN TRENCH LEVEL OFFICERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO THEY SERVE AND OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A REALLY SEVERE AND DETRIMENTAL DIVIDE AT WORK HERE. >> THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE, WHAT MARGARET IS GETTING AT, IT IS

NOT THE LAW UNDER FIRE, YOU HAVE TO THINK WITH THIS DOJ THING GOING ON, THAT NEED TO BE MORE TRANSPARENT SOMEHOW HAS TO GET IN THE CONVERSATION FOR THIS COMMUNITY. >> DEEPER CULTURAL EXAMINATION OF THE ORGANIZATION. AND I THINK THAT IS -- WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IT OVER AND OVER AND ALSO IN OTHER SEGMENTS HERE ON INFOCUS OVER THE YEAR, I MEAN, WE HAVE JUST BEEN GETTING AT THIS AND I THINK THAT THE DOJ INVESTIGATION MAY ACTUALLY BE -- THE RESULT OF IT MAY BE THE START OF THIS CONVERSATION. >> YOU KNOW IT IS EARLY. BUT, IF MAYOR BERRY DOES NOT HANG ON AND GET REAPPOINTED TO THIS POSITION, WOULD THE CHIEF LAST OR WOULD SOMEBODY ELSE BE INCLINED TO HAVE A NEW CHIEF? >> DINELLI ISN'T RUNNING AGAIN BERRY, HE'S RUNNING AGAINST SCHULTZ. >> DON'T BE SURPRISED WHEN THIS TRAGEDY BECOMES FRONT PAGE NEWS AGAIN OR IN YOUR MAILBOX OR OTHER INTELLIGENCE BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE

PLAYED OUT OVER AND OVER. >> YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT MARGARET AS WELL. >> I MEAN, I THINK THAT NO MATTER WHAT AND WHO GETS ELECTED, THE REALLY DIFFICULT WORK IS GOING TO BE START TO ASK HOW DO WE IMPLEMENT THOSE CULTURAL CHANGES AND IT IS A MATTER OF MORE FUNDING? IS IT A MATTER OF LOOKING AT SCREENINGS AND RECRUITMENT PROCEDURES? AND IS A QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP? WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND WHAT DOES THE TOP DOWN OPERATIONS -- HOW ARE THEY WORKING RIGHT NOW? HOW ARE THEY NOT WORKING AND HOW CAN THE PUBLIC BE A PART OF ALL OF THAT AND HOW CAN THAT BE TURNED BETTER. IT IS A HAD HARD QUESTION. >> LET'S HOPE THE TRAGEDY ON THE WESTSIDE DOES ENGENDER CHANGES HERE IN THIS REGARD. BREAKS YOUR HEART. AFTER THE BREAK, NEW MEXICO MAKERS STARTS A SERIES ON WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN MAKING NEW MEXICO THE STATE IT IS TODAY. KNOW, THIS CULTURE OF HUNTING WHICH FOR MANY FAMILIES IN NEW

MEXICO IS SOMETHING THAT GOES BACK TO GENERATIONS BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE CONTEST FOR PRICES WHERE YOU ARE PILING UP ANIMAL CARCASSES ON TRUCK BEDS. >> THIS WEEK WE FEATURE THE FIRST IN SERIES OF NEW MEXICO MAKERS, PRESENTED IN CONJUNCTION WITH NATIONAL PBS PROGRAM, MAKERS, WOMEN WHO MAKE AMERICA. JUDY CHICAGO MAY BE FROM THE WINDY CITY BUT SHE'S MADE HER HOME RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO SINCE THE 90'S. SHE MAY BE BEST KNOWN FOR HER ICONIC ART "THE DINNER PARTY" WHICH DEPICTS PLACE SETTINGS FOR 39 MYTHICAL AND HISTORIC FAMOUS WOMEN. HER CAREER SPANS HALF A CENTURY AND INCLUDES A VAST BODY OF WORK. JUDY CHICAGO ALSO FOUNDED A FEMINIST ARE ORGANIZATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND HERE IS NMIF CORRESPONDENT, SARAH GUSTAVUS SPOKE WITH THE AUTHOR ARTIST IN HER BELEN STUDIO.

[BASS AND DRUM MUSIC] >> JUDY YOU'RE A GROUND-BREAKING FEMINIST ARTIST AND YOU ALSO FOUNDED THROUGH THE FLOWER WHICH HIGHLIGHTS THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF WOMEN IN ART AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ART. WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT WOMEN AND THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS TO COMBAT SOME OF THE LACK OF RECOGNITION FOR WOMEN ARTISTS? >> WHEN I WAS A YOUNG GIRL I I WAS VERY AMBITIOUS. I WENT TO ART CLASSES AT THE CHICAGO ART INSTITUTE FROM THE TIME I WAS FIVE. I GREW UP. AND OF COURSE I DIDN'T NOTICE

THERE WEREN'T ANY WOMEN HANGING IN THE CHICAGO ART INSTITUTE WHEN I WENT EVERY SATURDAY. WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AT EAST LA, I TOOK A COURSE CALLED THE INTELLECTUAL HISTORY OF EUROPE AND THE PROFESSOR SAID THAT AT DISCUSS WOMEN'S CONTRIBUTIONS. I WAITED ALL SEMESTER BECAUSE I WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN BEFORE ME AND HE WALKED UP AT THE LAST CLASS AND HE SAID, WOMEN'S CONTRIBUTIONS, THEY HAVE MADE NONE. NOW, HOW DOES THAT MAKE A YOUNG WOMAN FEEL? HOW DOES THAT MAKE A YOUNG WOMAN STUDENT OR A YOUNG WOMAN ART STUDENT WHO HASN'T MADE HER FIELD, TO SIT IN CLASSES THAT TALK ABOUT WHAT MEN DID? LOOK AT WHAT MEN'S ART WAS? NOW AND THEN MAYBE SEE A WORK BY A WOMAN. WHAT DOES THAT DO TO A WOMAN AND HER OWN SENSE OF WHAT SHE CAN BE AND DO? THAT IS WHY I HAVE DEVOTED MY

LIFE AND MY WORK TO OVERCOMING THE SILENCE ABOUT WOMEN'S ACHIEVEMENTS. >> WHAT ABOUT AFTER YOU LEFT THE CLASSROOM, WHAT WAS THE A WOMAN DOING THE KIND OF THINGS YOU WANT TO DO IN THE ART WORLD EVEN IF IT WASN'T RECOGNIZED OFFICIALLY? >> ACTUALLY, YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY WOMEN DOING WHAT I WANTED TO DO. I WAS ALREADY EXHIBITING BY THE TIME I WAS IN GRADUATE SCHOOL AND I CAME UP IN LOS 1970'S AND THE LA ART SCENE AT THAT TIME WAS TOTALLY, TOTALLY MALE DOMINATED. THERE WERE NO WOMEN WHO WERE VISIBLE. YOU DIDN'T HAVE A SOLO SHOW. YOU HAD A ONE MAN SHOW, EVEN IF YOU WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET ONE AND YOU WERE A WOMAN. >> HOW DID YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS OF YOUR ACTUAL ART WORK? >> NOBODY LIKES TO BE CRITICIZED, YOU KNOW, AND WOMEN PARTICULARLY DON'T LIKE TO BE CRITICIZED. WE TAKE IT PERSONALLY. YOU KNOW, WHICH YOU HAVE TO NOT DO IF YOU'RE AN ARTIST. I WAS ACTUALLY LUCKY WHEN I

WAS IN GRADUATE SCHOOL ONE OF THE YOUNG MALE ARTISTS CAME TO TEACH FOR A YEAR AND I KIND OF FOLLOWED HIM AROUND. HE THOUGHT I WAS A PEST OF COURSE AND THE GUYS USED TO PUT ME DOWN AND PUT WOMEN DOWN ALL THE TIME BUT, EVEN THEN, AT THE SAME TIME, I LEARNED A LOT FROM HIM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID WAS, NEVER READ REVIEWS. JUST COUNT THE COLUMN INCHES AND SEE HOW MANY PICTURES THERE ARE. WHICH IS A GOOD THING HE GAVE ME THAT ADVICE BECAUSE SOME OF THE REVIEWS I HAVE GOTTEN IN MY LIFETIME, OH, MY GOD I WOULD HAVE SLIT MY THROAT. I PUT THEM ALL IN BOXES AND NOW, 40 OR YEARS LATER, A BOOK IS COMING OUT STUDYING THE CRITICAL REACTION TO THE DINNER PARTY, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THIS HISTORIAN IS ANALYZING BY

BOTH ART CRITICS AND FEMINIST THEORISTS AND SHE IS CONTRASTING IT WITH THOUSANDS OF LETTERS SHE FOUND IN MY ARCHIVES FROM PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD SAYING HOW THE DINNER PARTY HAD CHANGED THEIR LIVES. SO THIS IS WHEN I FOUND OUT. YOU DON'T DIE FROM A BAD REVIEW. >> DO YOU THINK WOMEN ARE GETTING DIFFERENT KINDS OF REVIEWS TODAY, THAT THEIR WORK IS JUDGED BASED ON THE MERIT CRITIQUE OF BEING A WOMAN IN THE ART WORLD? YOU THINK YOU WERE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT FOR FEMALE ARTISTS TODAY? >> THERE IS NO QUESTION THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES SINCE I WAS A YOUNG WOMAN ARTIST. WOMEN ARTISTS AND ARTIST OF COLOR CAN BE THEMSELVES IN WAYS THAT WAS JUST IMPOSSIBLE. EVERYBODY HAD TO PAINT LIKE THEY WERE A WHITE GUY, WHETHER YOU WERE A WOMAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN OR HISPANIC, LATINO, EVERYBODY HAD TO PRETEND THEY WERE WHITE GUYS. AND, THAT HAS CHANGED. OKAY? THE OTHER THING THAT HAS CHANGED IS THERE ARE MANY MORE WOMEN AND ARTISTS OF COLOR

EXHIBITING BUT A LOT OF IT IS AT THE ENTRY LEVEL. >> WHERE DOES YOUR CONFIDENCE COME FROM? >> YOU KNOW, I AM LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. I HAVE MY DAYS OF DOUBT. IN FACT IN LONDON NOW, ONE OF THE SHOWS I HAVE IN ONE ROOM IS A SERIES OF 140 DRAWINGS CALLED AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF THE YEAR, WHICH CHRONICLES UPS AND DOWNS OF THE YEAR, YOU KNOW, WHICH DEMONSTRATES THAT, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYDAY IS THE EASIEST DAY FOR ME. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WAS EXCEEDINGLY FORTUNATE AS A CHILD. I WAS RAISED BY A FAMILY IN A FAMILY THAT BELIEVED IN EQUAL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN, MY FATHER WAS -- HE WORKED NIGHTS AND SO HE WAS THERE IN THE -- AND MY MOTHER WORKED DURING THE DAY. HE WAS THERE WHEN I WOKE UP AND AFTER MY NAPS IN THE AFTERNOON. AND MY FATHER REALLY MADE ME FEEL LIKE I COULD BE WHO I WANTED, DO WHAT I WANTED AND THAT I HAD AN OBLIGATION TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION, BUT IT

WAS MY MOTHER WHO SENT ME TO ART SCHOOL. >> DID YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE AN ARTIST? >> YES, FROM THE TIME I WAS A CHILD. I STARTED DRAWING WHEN I WAS THREE AND I STARTED STUDYING ART WHEN I WAS FIVE. >> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO ENTER THE ART WORLD AS A WOMAN? >> WITHIN MY FIRST SHOW AND ALL THESE GUYS CAME UP TO ME AND SAID, YOU CAN'T BE A WOMAN AND AN ARTIST TOO. THAT WAS PRETTY BLATANT. >> DO YOU THINK YOUNG WOMAN HEAR THAT TODAY IN A DIFFERENT VERSION? >> NOT TOO LONG AGO, I MET A YOUNG CURATOR AT A MUSEUM IN THIS SHOW AND SHE TOLD ME, SHE HAD GRADUATED, SHE HAD COME UP THROUGH THE 90'S WHEN SHE WAS TOLD THAT WE LIVED IN A FEMINIST WORLD THAT EVERYTHING HAD CHANGED AND WOMEN COULD DO AND BE WHATEVER THEY WANTED NOW. THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED WAS SHE WORKED AS AN ASSISTANT FOR A MALE ARTIST AFTER SHE GOT OUT OF SCHOOL AND HE SEXUALLY HARASSED HER.

AND THEN AS CURATOR AT THE MUSEUM, EVERY ONE OF THE MALE ARTISTS SHE INCLUDED IN THE SHOW PROPOSITIONED HERE. AND SHE SAID, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. SO, I WOULD SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED IS WHERE WE ARE. NOT ENOUGH HAS CHANGED. >> A LOT OF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR PARTICULAR ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT YOU FEEL IS LESS WELL-KNOWN OR THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT ABOUT YOUR CAREER SO FAR? >> ACTUALLY, A LOT OF MY WORK FOR A LONG TIME WAS COMPLETELY OVERSHADOWED BY THE DINNER PARTY. A LOT OF THE HUGE BODY OF ART THAT I HAVE CREATED WAS JUST NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. THAT STARTED TO CHANGE IN 2011 WITH THIS GETTY FUNDED INITIATIVE CALLED PACIFIC STANDARD TIME. WHICH INVOLVED EVERY INSTITUTION FROM SANTA BARBARA TO SAN DIEGO DOCUMENTING AND CELEBRATING LA ART FROM 1945

TO 1980, 20 OF WHICH YEARS, I WAS IN. I HAD DESTROYED QUITE A BIT OF MY EARLY BIG SCALE WORK BECAUSE IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE TO STORE, BUT I STILL HAD A LOT OF THAT EARLY WORK THAT I HAD GOTTEN NOWHERE WITH IN THE FIRST 10 YEARS OF MY CAREER. I MEAN, I SHOWED IT BUT I COULDN'T SELL IT, YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST -- SUDDENLY PEOPLE TO MY WORK THAN THE DINNER PARTY AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE INITIATED A BIG CHANGE BECAUSE SUDDENLY PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT OTHER BODIES OF MY ART. IT IS JUST FABULOUS. IT IS FABULOUS. I AM JUST GLAD I LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THAT AND A REVIEW IN ART MAGAZINE THAT SAID, JUDY CHICAGO'S EARLY WORK WAS TOO RADICAL FOR THE LA MACHO ART SCENE. I AM LIKE; YES!

>> OUR SERIES CONTINUES IN NEXT WEEK'S PROGRAM. SARAH GUSTAVUS SPEAKS WITH NATIVE AMERICAN ACTIVIST LADONNA HARRIS WHO FOUNDED AMERICANS FOR INDIAN >> I THINK THIS REALLY WOULD BE A NONISSUE IF SHE HADN'T MADE SUCH A BIG PUBLIC SHOW ABOUT TAKING RICHARDSON'S ADMINISTRATION TO TASK ABOUT THEIR OVERSPENDING AND MADE A BIG TO DO ABOUT SCALING BACK ALL OF THOSE EXCESSES. SO ... >> THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON AT THE ROUNDHOUSE, IT SEEMS THE BILLS DIED OR FORGOTTEN AS SOON AS THEY DIE IN COMMITTEE OR THE HOUSE OR SENATE, OR FLOOR KILLS THEM. IT DOESN'T MATTER, THE PASS PASSES, BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE BILLS THAT DIED DURING THE LAST WEEK THAT TOGETHER PROVIDE AN INTERESTING PICTURE OF THE EVERYDAY BACK AND FORTH THAT IS NEW MEXICO CULTURE. PROPOSED BAN ON COYOTE KILLING CONTESTS AND SAME SEX MARRIAGE AMENDMENT. START WITH COYOTE. LET ME START WITH YOU JAVIER. IT IS INTERESTING LISTENING TO

THE TESTIMONY FROM HOME, THE LIVE STREAM AND THE CULTURE CLASS THAT CAME WITH THIS. RANCHERS, SEE THE CONTEST AS A FAIRLY BENIGN EVENT THAT JUST HELPS THEM GET TO A GOAL WHICH IS KEEPING DEPREDATION LOW, PREDATORS LOW. OTHER SIDE WAS HEARTBURN AND ANGST ABOUT THE REPUTATION IT GIVES NEW MEXICO IN SOME OTHER WAYS. BUT THE BILL DID NOT PASS AND IT HAD A LOT OF MOMENTUM GOING IN. YOUR SENSE OF THAT ONE? >> I BELIEVE IT WILL COME BACK. IT WAS AN INTERESTING DEBATE ABOUT THE CULTURE OF HUNTING WHICH, FOR MANY FAMILIES IN NEW MEXICO, IS SOMETHING THAT GOES BACK GENERATIONS BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE CONTEST OR CONTESTS FOR PRICES WHERE YOU ARE PILING UP ANIMAL CARCASSES AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS AN INTERESTING DEBATE BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN NEW MEXICO. BUT, CODY HAS A GOOD CAUSE AND HE'S TRYING TO TAKE ON THIS INHUMANITY TO OUR NATURAL SURROUNDINGS WHICH SOME PEOPLE

IN NEW MEXICO HAVE A REAL RESPECT FOR AND THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE DEBATE. >> HISTORICAL STUFF, LISTENING TO THIS, ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COYOTE AND GOING BACK TO GRANDDADS WERE MENTIONED, GREAT GRANDDADS WERE MENTIONED IN TESTIMONY, ALWAYS THE WAY IT HAS BEEN DONE. IT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO HEAR THAT URBAN PUSH, BRIAN EGOLF WAS VERY STRONG ON THIS ONE TOO ALONG WITH NATE CODY, REALLY SAYING, LOOK, THERE IS ANOTHER WAY TO DO THIS, BUT IT IS JUST A BLOCK, IT WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT KIND OF TESTIMONY. >> ACTUALLY WE SEE THAT DIVIDE OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES IN THIS STATE. RANCHING IS A BIG PART OF OUR LARGER STATE'S CULTURE AND COMMUNITY BUT SOMETIMES THERE IS THIS HUGE GAP BETWEEN THE REALITY. I REMEMBER GOING ON A TOUR IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE AND RANCHERS TALKING ABOUT HAVING TO BUILD COYOTE BOXES

FOR KIDS TO STAND IN WAITING FOR THE SCHOOL BUS AND THE TERRIBLE CONCERN THEY FELT FOR THEIR KIDS, FOR THEIR LIVESTOCK, ET CETERA, SO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE EXPERIENCE IN THIS CITY. >> AND, SO, ARE WE GUILTY IN THE CITY OF JUST LOOKING AT THIS TOO ROMANTICALLY, AT THE COYOTE? WE HAVE SHIRTS, WE HAVE MASCOTS FOR THE UNIVERSITY IN THE BIGGEST CITY. THE STATE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. ARE WE MISSING SOMETHING HERE ON THIS URBAN THING ON THE COYOTE? >> I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IT IS SO -- IN THE SAME WAY THAT I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE IN FARM AREAS, ALSO IN RANCHING AREAS, AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT IN THE SUBURBS, LOOK AT THE CITY AND IT SEEMS SO DANGEROUS. IT IS POSSIBLE WE LOOK OUT AT THE RANCHERS AND THINK THAT IS SOMEWHAT IDYLLIC AND DON'T QUITE GET -- TO BE HONEST, I AM VERY MUCH AGAINST, SPEAKING FROM THIS OTHER SIDE, BUT VERY MUCH AGAINST THE COYOTE HUNTS. I THINK THEY ARE BARBARIC AND

THE IDEA OF HAVING PRIZES FOR KILLING THEM, DISTURBS ME DEEPLY, BUT I ALSO THINK IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO COMMUNICATE IN A WAY IN WHICH WE CLEARLY UNDERSTAND WHAT EACH SIDE IS LOOKING FOR AND IS DEALING WITH, YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO COME TO GOOD SOLUTIONS. >> I LIKE THAT. >> MARGARET, SAME QUESTION, SAME ISSUE WITH THE COYOTE KILLING CONTESTS. IS IT AS BAD AS WE MIGHT THINK IT IS UP HERE IN THE BIGGER CITY OR IS THERE SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD HERE? MEXICO CATTLE RANCHERS ASSOCIATION WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE THAT CITY FOLK HAVE AN OVERLY ROMANTIC VIEW OF WHAT LIFE IS LIKE IN RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE AND THAT ECONOMIC REALITY FOR RANCHERS AND FARMERS IS VERY REAL AND AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE PUBLIC AND MUCH PUBLICIZED IMAGE OF THESE WHAT LOOKS LIKE WANTON SLAUGHTER OF AN ANIMAL THAT IS ROAMING ITS OWN TERRITORY. >> ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON THE

VOTE ON THE TRAPPING BILL ACTUALLY HAPPENED THIS MORNING, FRIDAY MORNING, AS WE WATCH THIS ALL TONIGHT, FRIDAY NIGHT. SAME ISSUES, JAMIE, TRAPPING, SOME FOLKS WOULD CALL IT JUST HEINOUSLY BARBARIC BUT IT IS A WAY OF LIFE AS FOLKS TESTIFIED UP THERE. CAN THOSE KIND OF THINGS EVER BE RECONCILED? SOMEONE HAS TO PROFOUNDLY LOSE IN ORDER FOR THINGS TO GET RECONCILED. THIS DEBATE, BECAUSE I AM DEFERENTIAL TO THE RANCHERS IN THE STATE WHO ARE GOOD PEOPLE THAT MANAGE THE LAND AND LIVESTOCK AND ARE PROTECTING THEIR OWN FAMILIES AND HAVE A HISTORY OF DOING THIS IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY. THEY HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO THE INTRODUCTION OF THE WOLF, REINTRODUCTION OF THE WOLF INTO NEW MEXICO BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IS HURTING THEIR LIVESTOCK, BUT THAT IS THE DEBATE THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND I THINK THEY OUGHT TO BE HEARD OUT. >> BRIAN EGOLF'S BILL TO OFFER CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TO RECOGNIZE MARRIAGE BY SAME

SEX COUPLES ALSO DIED IN COMMITTEE THIS WEEK WITH DEMOCRATS DEBBIE RODELLA AND MARY HELEN GARCIA VOTING AGAINST IT. JAVIER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE NATIONAL PARTY REFORM. WHAT HAPPENED HERE? >> I WAS ACTUALLY SITTING IN THE COMMITTEE ROOM WHEN THIS WAS DEBATED AND WHEN IT WENT DOWN. AND, INTERESTINGLY, MARY HELEN GARCIA AND DEBBIE RODELLA ARE BOTH FROM VERY LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE DISTRICTS IN THE STATE. THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS BUT IT WAS A VERY MOVING DEBATE. THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE WAS IN TEARS WHEN HE PRESENTED HIS STORY ABOUT A CONSTITUENT WHO DEALT WITH SOME OF THE HATE AROUND THIS TOPIC. AND THEN ALSO SOME YOUNG PEOPLE SPOKE WHICH I THOUGHT WAS VERY COMPELLING AND THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, FOR THEIR GENERATION, THIS IS A NONISSUE AND POLLING TELLS US THE SAME THING. THAT, YOU KNOW, 20, 30, 40 YEARS FROM NOW, ARE WE GOING TO LOOK BACK ON THIS LIKE WE LOOK BACK AND ASK OURSELVES, WERE WE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY? >> SOPHIE, ON THAT ONE TOO, BECAUSE IT IS INTERESTING YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT POLLING.

STATE-WIDE POLLING. HOWEVER, IN OUR STATE SHOWS A VERY CLOSE SITUATION THAT SOME GROUPS, LIBERAL, LEFTY, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY, WERE NOT SUPPORTIVE OF THIS BILL BECAUSE THE FEELING WAS IT WOULD NOT WIN ON A STATE-WIDE CONSTITUTIONAL VOTE. >> IT IS A REAL CHALLENGE AND, YOU KNOW, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT IT IS LIKE IT IS HAPPENING HERE, IT'S HAPPENING ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, I WILL SAY THAT ON THURSDAY, THE WHITE HOUSE SUBMITTED A BRIEF ON THE SUPREME COURT CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 8 CASE SAYING AS FAR AS THEY WERE CONCERNED PROP 8 SHOULD BE OVERTURNED AND SAME SEX MARRIAGE SHOULD ALLOWED IN CALIFORNIA. WE'RE SEEING INCREDIBLE SHIFTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I DO BELIEVE IT IS GOING TO REMAIN A STATE ISSUE. IF NOT THIS YEAR IT WILL BE BACK BECAUSE IT HAS COME UP BEFORE LEGISLATURE BEFORE AND THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME, AND I DO BELIEVE IT IS GOING TO COME UP AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL IT PASSES. THERE HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE SHIFTS JUST IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS OVER THIS ISSUE. PEOPLE ARE EVOLVING, YOU KNOW,

TO USE THE TERM THAT HAS BEEN -- THEY ARE EVOLVING VERY QUICKLY ON THIS ISSUE. AND, I BELIEVE THAT OUR STATE WILL, AS WELL, THAT WE WILL SEE THAT CHANGE HAPPEN. I JUST THINK WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND. >> ARE WE AT THE POINT WHERE THE FUTURE AS SOPHIE MENTIONED TO HAVE A STATE-WIDE VOTE ON THIS THAT WOULD PASS? WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THIS? >> I THINK, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT WE ARE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE CURVE, STATE-WIDE. BUT I DO THINK, HOWEVER, THIS REALLY IS A MATTER OF -- IT IS GOING TO PASS EVENTUALLY AND YOUNG PEOPLE AND I THINK LAWMAKERS ARE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE TIDE AMONG YOUNGER VOTERS ARE EMERGING AS A POWERFUL CONSTITUENCY. IT IS UNAVOIDABLE AND IF LAWMAKERS WANTED IT, SORT OF AHEAD OF THAT TIDE, THEY WILL GET BEHIND THIS. >> INTERESTING. YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHO IT WORKS HERE. UNLESS THERE IS THAT

BACK-DRAFT BEHIND YOUR CONSTITUENTS, IT IS A DIFFICULTY, WE ALSO HAVE BIG CELEBRITIES SPEAKING ON PROP 8, CLINT EASTWOOD AND OTHERS ARE SAYING IT IS TIME. >> CARLOS GUITERREZ, FORMER COMMERCE SECRETARY SIGNED ON TO THE LETTER AS WELL, OTHER PROMINENT REPUBLICANS. HERE IN NEW MEXICO MY OBSERVATION WAS THAT REPRESENTATIVE RODELLA AND GARCIA, WHILE THEIR DISTRICTS MAY BE DEMOCRATIC, I AM NOT SURE THEY ARE PROGRESSIVE. I THINK THAT THEY ARE HEAVILY HISPANIC AND CATHOLIC AND SO THEY ARE RESPONDING TO THE CULTURAL -- I DON'T KNOW -- GROUNDING THERE. THERE IS THE HEAVY INFLUENCE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND TRADITIONAL VALUES COALITION THAT ARE SHAPING THE POLITICS IN THE STATE. >> WE HAVE TO MOVE ALONG, A LOT OF OUTSIDE MONEY WOULD COME WITH IN AS WELL. THAT IS FEAR OF OPPOSING THIS. >> WORTH NOTING, HISPANIC POLL IS MORE POSITIVE -- YOUNGER HISPANICS, MORE POSITIVE TOWARDS MARRIAGE EQUALITY THAN MANY OTHER POPULATIONS. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. ON THE CLOCK NOW WITH A MERE

MINUTE TO SPEED THROUGH HEADLINES FOR THE WEEK. START WITH THE PROMISE OR HOPE OF COMPROMISE ON THE DRIVER'S LICENSE ISSUE, THE SO-CALLED TWO-TIERED LICENSE BILL THAT GIVES DREAMERS, WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE, A PROVISIONAL LICENSE AND EVERYONE ELSE A REAL ID ACT COMPLIANCE LICENSE. WELL, TAKE LICENSES AWAY FROM UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WAS KILLED IN COMMITTEE. JAVIER, THERE IS A SIMILAR MEASURE ALIVE IN THE SENATE, ANY FURTHER ON THE HOUSE SIDE; THIS TWO TIERED IDEA? >> THERE IS NOT AN APPETITE FOR THE GOVERNOR'S APPROACH. I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO ADDRESS WHICH IS THE REAL ISSUE, NOT A MANUFACTURED ISSUE. LIKE THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE WITH THIS ISSUE. THERE WAS A NEW YORK TIMES STORY ON SUNDAY, THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BIT OF A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT. WE SPENT SO MUCH TIME ON THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR ECONOMY, JOB GROWTH, EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT WE COULD BE SPENDING TIME ON. >> SURE. >> I AGREE. I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO GO ANYWHERE AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF LET'S WAIT UNTIL NEXT ELECTION TO SEE IF THE GOVERNOR STICKS AROUND TO SEE

IF WE CAN DRAG IT OUT. >> THERE IS A STRATEGERY. >> THERE IS AND I DO THINK IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT IN CONTEXT OF THE REAL ID ACT AND NEW MEXICO IS STILL BEHIND THE CURVE WHEN IT COMES TO COMPLIANCE WITH THAT. ONE OF THE REPORTERS, BROWN, HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THAT ISSUE. AND IT WILL BE REALLY FASCINATING TO SEE, WITH THE ELECTION, WHETHER THAT PLAYS OUT ON A NATIONAL LEVEL. >> MAKES SENSE, HOLD YOU THERE, JAMIE. >> GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ AND SECRETARY DESIGNATE, HANNAH SKANDERA, SAW THEIR SOCIAL PROMOTION BILLS DIE IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE. THEY ARE FORCED TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER IS LEFT; THERE ARE MEASURES STILL ALIVE BUT LESS AGGRESSIVE THAN WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE. SWANSONG FOR SOCIAL PROMOTION. I SAID TO OUR PRODUCER, MATT GRUBS, WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS ONE TO ME IS THEY ALL WENT BY WITH A WHIMPER. IT WASN'T SOME GIANT CRESCENDO OR CATACLYSMIC FORCES AGAINST EACH OTHER, SORT OF WENT AWAY. >> RIGHT, AND I THINK WE TALKED AT THE TABLE BEFORE ABOUT THE IDEA OF UNFUNDED

MANDATE AND THAT IS SORT OF LIKE AND NOW WE WILL NOT TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE. YOU CAN SAY THAT TO MAKE IT GO AWAY. YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERY YEAR, OF THIS GOVERNOR'S ADMINISTRATION, I THOUGHT IS SHE GOING TO BRING THAT BACK? IS IT COMING BACK? SO FAR, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS, IT DOES COME BACK, SO, I WOULD ANTICIPATE WE'LL SEE IT AGAIN. >> SURE, GET YOU ON YOU THIS ONE, JAMIE. >> I THINK IT IS INTERESTING I THINK THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR I PREDICTED THIS WOULD PROBABLY GO THROUGH. THEY'LL FIND A WAY TO GET IT THROUGH. I AM SURPRISED WE'RE AT THE STAGE IT IS NOT HAPPENINGS BUT I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY DUE TO THE STRENGTH PERHAPS THE DEMOCRATS HAVE GOTTEN WISER ABOUT PUTTING ALTERNATIVES OUT THERE AND THAT IS HOW THIS HAS HAPPENED. I PERSONALLY AM IN FAVOR OF THE SOCIAL PROMOTION BILL BUT -- >> 10 SECONDS. >> I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE PED PERSON POINTED OUT THE DEMOCRATIC ALTERNATIVES TO THIS BILL DON'T HAVE KIND OF FUNDING AND BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THAT THEIR BILL DID. I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN INTERESTING POINT. >> A BIT OF DUST UP IN SANTA

FE AFTER A KRQE REPORT DETAILED A $100,000 PUBLIC KITCHEN UPGRADE AT THE GOVERNOR'S MANSION, INCLUDING A FANCY IN-WALL COFFEE MAKER, KIND OF STICK IT IN THE WALL. THAT COST A FEW THOUSAND BUCKS. THIS ISN'T A PRIVATE KITCHEN TO BE CLEAR, THIS IS NOT WHERE THE GOVERNOR AND THE FIRST MAN HANG OUT. THIS IS THE PUBLIC SIDE, WHERE OFFICIAL FUNCTIONS HAPPEN. BUT, MARGARET, IS IT A BAD MOVE BY A COST-BUSTING GOVERNOR; JUST DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT. >> THIS REALLY WOULD BE A NONISSUE IF SHE HADN'T MADE SUCH A BIG PUBLIC SHOW ABOUT TAKING RICHARDSON'S ADMINISTRATION TO TASK ABOUT THEIR, YOU KNOW, OVERSPENDING, AND MADE A BIG TO-DO ABOUT ALL THOSE EXCESSES, SO, SOME OF THIS, I KNOW IT IS ALL POLITICAL. >> I FIND IT AN EXAMPLE HOW INEFFICIENT GOVERNMENT CAN BE. THIS IS A GENERAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT. THIS IS THE CONTRACTOR AND

THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. THEY WASTE GOVERNMENT MONEY. >> ANOTHER VERSION -- >> I TALKED TO A CATERER, AN SAID, WOULD YOU ACTUALLY -- IS THIS CATERER FRIENDLY; ONE CUP AT A TIME? ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. >> AT A FUNCTION. >> AMAZING. >> IT IS COMING FROM THE GOVERNOR WHOSE CAMPAIGN WAS LET'S SELL THE JET. NOW A COFFEE MAKER. AND, YOU KNOW, SHE SAYS SHE WAS GOING TO EAT BOLOGNA SANDWICHES WITH HER HUSBAND. I THINK THERE WAS MORE BOLOGNA IN THE SANDWICHES THAN MEETS THE EYE. >> SO MUCH FOR THE FISCAL CLIFF. A LAST DITCH EFFORT OF WHAT SOME SAY WAS A QUESTIONABLE SINCERITY TO AVOID SEQUESTRATION, HAS, AT LEAST OF RECORDING RIGHT NOW, FAILED, JAMIE, THOSE TWO VOTES IN OUR CONGRESS, ROTTEN NEWS FOR NEW MEXICO. I CAN'T EVEN THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. >> ANY OTHER STATE THAT IS DEPENDING ON FEDERAL DOLLARS, WRONG FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. I AM A BIG HAWK ON THESE ISSUES. I JUST THINK THIS IS A TRAGEDY. AND I THINK BOB WOODWARD HAS PROVEN TO BE CORRECT, AND SAID THIS IS OBAMA'S SEQUESTRATION

AND NOBODY ELSES. >> I LAUGH, WELL, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WEEK. >> NEW MEXICO GETS MORE THAN 12% OF ITS STATE FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THAT IS GOING TO HIT THE BASES REALLY HARD, AND EDUCATION HARD, ESPECIALLY PAINFUL AS WE TALK ABOUT EDUCATION DEBATES AND IT IS NOT GOING TO HELP CONGRESSIONAL RATINGS WHICH ARE HOVERING ABOVE NORTH KOREA AND KARDASHIANS FROM WHAT I READ, SO, THAT IS UNFORTUNATE. >> IT IS TOUGH, THIS IS A BIT OF A MANUFACTURED CRISIS. DEFICIT IS GOING DOWN. AND THIS WOULD BE THE ABSOLUTE WORST TIME TO KICK THE PROPS OUT FROM UNDER ECONOMIC RECOVERY ESPECIALLY IN NEW MEXICO WHERE THIS IS GROUND ZERO FOR THESE KIND OF CUTS. >> WIND IT UP THERE. MARGARET WRIGHT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. YOU WERE GREAT. JAVIER, GOOD TO SEE YOU, TOO. YOU GOT IT. >> THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE DISCUSSIONS BY FINDING US ON FACEBOOK AT NMINFOCUS. I AM GENE GRANT. SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, INFOCUS.