Highest and Best: A New Vision for Virginia Lan; 1; Patterns of Development

it's been good jobs secure future sometimes were forced to stop and wonder is this a good thing sometimes we are really where children receive the love of this piece of farmland fields of their nation's obligations we asked ourselves is

just a piston way thank you patterns of lead to shape our lives are shaped by them and we build and we express our vision of ourselves in our community our hopes and our fears and it leaves him disabled from suburban virginia southeast speaking to officials

virginia's fastest growing state in the us and despite the recent economic downturn says that's a trend that's slated to continue for the next twenty years it's been fifty years since world war two and patterns of living it changed tremendously our lives are different than those of our parents and grandparents for the most part we work a different jobs usually in service industries eleven different kinds of communities families are smaller more and more people are waiting to have children until their thirties people more women are working full time graduation to retire in a traditional families are fewer more people into singles there's one parent families the baby boomers born between nineteen forty six nineteen sixty four in the middle of their lives but in another twenty years the largest portion of our population will be looking toward retirement change to match our lifestyles

the american dream of a detached house in the art scene in the earliest suburban developments of the forties and fifties has become the dream of a bigger house in larger yard a dream which is affordable for fewer and fewer families small towns and cities in the west south of virginia once prosperous have faded with the decline of resource based industries like mining and agriculture cities are struggling to redevelop the order to regain their vitality the suburbs of the golden crescent from washington dc to offer on the other hand are growing rapidly on their way to becoming a continuous suite of low density that out but even in the midst of suburban prosperity it's clear there's some trouble in paradise we've done everything we can to realize the american dream and as finding that it has inherent problems socially ecologically economically since world war two the factor that

has played the greatest role in shaping our land use decisions is the automobile cars have given us incredible freedom to live far from our work to travel where we want to when we want to this freedom carries a price widespread air pollution effectively mobility for the elderly the young traffic snarls to minimize our free time and a pattern of land use called spore first we tried to the hardware store and the hi fi show didn't think they were designed to teach then well you can look for driving from climb tree so far well the basic problem is that we're able to tolerate scroll only because of the existence of the transportation mode called the automobile but i think hari is not really a question of toleration reluctant to put up with a two accommodated to adjust our lives to it only because we can get from

a place of employment if you do well in place that lies somewhere in the future although suburbia all with that because it's not just a virginia prompted crews nationwide and the rich is the executive director of a thousand friends of oregon a group responsible for over oregon's land use decisions that result in increasingly low density to the first ball we're having much more serious impacts and just shooting up farmland or filling wetlands which are bad enough as drilling arab spring of our guests of the pattern of high cost housing in suburbia where the new jobs are canned beans that people who need employment in the suburbs i can afford to buy a house near where are jarvis and there's no transportation out there zoning setting permissible uses densities for a partial

plan is about the only way we have to control our land use originally designed to separate homes from smoke stacks and factories selling has made its own contribution to the problems of spain roger louis architect of washington post columnist planning that we engaged in was it really designed it was laying out a very broad brush pattern of land use is there is rather than in the last three years in iraq turn to think of this area that is still available for the moment as samantha bee coherent plan organize the kind of a sense of the senate that was in some of its edges could have a common network of streets a park space those kinds of thoughts were were applied only to the individual parcels partial within its own boundaries so the the american suburban landscape of today it looks like

enclaves each year which might be well designed or balances and that was clearly center and they didn't sit down located just sell the washington dc was a rural county dairy farmers until just after world war two no more use names like that a virginia beach has become synonymous with developer john t hazel junior this fall has used more land thousand and eight the data used by the same token if we didn't have so much more you would never had some of the growth in the population centers and the job creation that we have created a norwegian after thirty years of participation i will say just what i could be expected to serve in that is we haven't done all

about northern virginia if you generally as an actual place to live to work and to play some of that high priced on the taxes a little bit overdone on some of the services a little bit slow on the tray ask the question why is there a massive traffic congestion were most of the virginia suburbs have very little bit silly fairfax county is a low density capped with an average density of less than two units and i it is far too low to support public transit it's far too low to support even carpool so significant and yet the connecting road system has been effectively denied the county through a series of decisions that range from in the sixties and seventies and refusing to put roses on that point because citizens don't like growth especially when they were in their backyard why don't people want new roads

must there somewhere else why is it always easier to build services needed for the community infrastructure in someone else's neighborhood what is the average person think it's best to widely separate land use putting stories far from homes and jobs are from a social historian frank turek valentine is he sees it as a continuing history of the problems that the voters are responding to me and in the segregation of the american sailing by class is something that begins very early on in in la before a tin tin in richmond there are ads and the newspaper talking about escaping from the heart as a downtown and to churchill where an eight ounce family was pulling a spec house and senate blocks away

i think at its core survey regarding why that's been attractive to people ever since to move through it to an area that has people who feel like them so insurance those who flee the city to a new suburban neighborhoods often wind up in conflict with later the drawbridge well mayor myra over north of virginia beach everyone feels that everybody else who comes will be pursuing that same terrain then you have the normal competition that begins with those who have moved in originally lived here originally and those who were adopting the area moving into later change in and of itself is very unsettling and neighborhoods are created and the people

who inhabit them tend to want to preserve the lifestyle that they've created there those neighborhoods change people continue to move out in addition first time homeowners often try to maximize their buying car by producing enough consider a regional war immigration planning consultant and rasheed explains as areas development precedes it reaches a point to something like three persons per acre it becomes inefficient listen to support that the taxes go up the controls go on and what happens if the growth and moves to the next carry out and they because they have a halt because the infrastructure there which has

been invested in over the years and this initial development lives off of that infrastructure the old farm to market roads there's very limited access highway there is a package to replant at the tax rate goes up we think we're in great shape we don't understand that when you add up all of those costs are going to be a lot more than the tax revenue every time when low we increase the inefficiency and therefore the cost but it isn't just the cost that makes ball undesirable our communities are very different than they were a tradition that they're no longer a community of poise of shared place and shared interests but rather is this is my house and on the other a cart and of that intelligence of the telephone so i can promise of a news network of telecommunications network of movement and my community is really simply defined by these condo it's connected to these other noes are destinations which could be anywhere this raises problems not just in traffic or on the waste of resources

but in the quality of life in this is what we have made and we have reason to be convenient since then economically productive than it's been it's not logical some basins of them is ann and i think that for the first time because of new awareness and increase concerned about our social ocean ships with her fellow citizens our interests in historic preservation are interested in ecological preservation i think people are beginning to wonder these patterns of use of these use planning and zoning strategies have really them affected were had been as successful as we thought they were the odd things are going to change some of the rules are different

it's summer aspirations changed some of the beliefs are modified nice urban areas are struggling to deal with the problems of fleeing population business and that he'd read about it especially hard because the city and surrounding counties are separate political jurisdictions as the flight of the affluent leaves behind people need help their remains precious little tax base to support them virginia which is the central region association we fail to see the needs of the entire population or we are involved in and in a very small number of people having to come up with the resources to provide to meet the needs of of a much larger group of people for example

richmond city of richmond provides twenty percent of all of the adult home beds for the commonwealth of virginia and that vastly exceeds our and we certainly don't represent twenty percent of the population of the commonwealth of virginia armbands and this is an economic burden that talent that we carry not only in providing services for this population has tremendous needs but also in the impact that that concentration of that population has on our own our other economic growth downtown is with more public amenities demands for more public services about finding it difficult to retain their business population once people commute into the city to work and went home the bedroom communities to live now some are seeking a larger tax base while doing business administrator office park located on interstate highways edge cities like tysons corner

or edge towns like in iraq we're rich sydney got the operative so we've got some big companies after the biggest which is virginia park which has got i believe about a thousand people work we were real bad around five million square feet it has sparked tremendous amount of horror for residential roads and lessen its efficient because people live within a two mile radius can comedians go downtowns are seeking to work with surrounding suburban jurisdictions record and the provision of services to spread out over the whole metropolitan areas the costs of amenities services needed by its citizens that's an uphill task meanwhile cities are redeveloping adjusting their development patterns are super lifestyles and seeking a new tax base to support the services they offer part of their attraction is the rationality of city giza i think what makes cities work socially is on the ability of the city tick to offer an incredible variety of choices in terms of a living

environment what makes these were the little pockets of of commercial development that exist out in concert with residential development and said that there is a restaurant within easy walking distance of your house or you can pop out to the grocery store to pick up something he forgot for dinner without it taking an hours and hours i think there are there is a liveliness there is a vitality there is a degree of interaction with environment in the city that is very different from living in the seventies richard shelby csx really realistic james many people would just love to be a part of our of a fairly dense active or downtown in vomit and jams are on public areas and in good will

are just to fill with people and the young people particularly seem to enjoy themselves social interaction as a part of their work environment what makes a downtown attracting this fast changing what's it was jobs and shopping now downtowns focus around control and recreational amenities museums unique shopping and restaurant district energy if those office buildings that have good retail and entertainment and culture around them are the ones least best are the ones that that are most desirable chateau is in many ways an environment for tourism it meets the disney standard in terms of design and maintenance and security it offers a variety of entertainment options within a very short area that offers retail that is unique in downtown's there are a

variety of unique consumer neighborhoods that that offer diversity that offer address the broader market it is not addressed to the shopping mall we're from the cicada development company did you know that an occurrence every year the right to build forty houses on his farm that would be interested in buying these rights for new entrenched remnants of our property owners who could unity ticket outside the cities and suburbs of the golden crisis like other communities towns and counties that would do almost anything to have the growth related problems facing fairfax virginia beach these are the traditional mining farming communities of southwestern southside virginia delegate for quality

and that is to bring in support industries and try to attract younger people we don't know the younger people to look less the old married couple as a kid so it was a lot better schools alonzo want to pay more taxes the loans are willing to take an interest in your civic in your communities but she factors in attracting industry are good schools good roads or connections a vibrant community access to business services like in southwestern southside virginia towns so these communities are battling a vicious circle development needs infrastructure which could be financed only by development meanwhile they're losing their most valuable resource their young people the same thing is going to be going to college is really never come back because of this the shells and jobs are just not here unless i have some family connection maybe a lawyer and maybe you might come back at a family practice but lately a doctor to do that that's very isolated but but they certainly a fuel cause they never come back we will

then there was a daunting because we would mean a country or two they can find jobs here because there's no jobs and they only there are those in the southwest to fear their communities will jump too quickly to pursue a development that may not pay for itself or to overburden wilderness park areas with visitors retired emory and henry professor it began i'm concerned about what's happening to them to a lot of them out in the landscape i go back to my my hometown of doom where she says it used to be purification systems there's no safe ground water supplies they are now subject to think that a few years ago there were getting as many as laura five million visitors in the mountains national recreation and i'm not

sure that it's good for the for the landscape itself and it's not really good for the way the culture they're what happens is that the value of the land goes up her taxes fewer people would have been on the land on the land before no longer able to command me to keep that can afford it terminating payments or are in other areas across the state they're also attempting to define their identity keep what's special about their communities and accommodate growth in loudon county a continuing process of visions has attempted to provide answers to the baffling problems of sprawl one facilitator who worked in london's visions process was built atop jay of the george mason conflict resolution click the economic issues in loudon

and often capture many of the underlying social and political issues the primary economic issue is land value and then oh what is the value of what gets built on the land and then how it gets taxed higher land developers and higher housing prices mean more tax withheld pay the costs of providing suburban levels of services for people who grew up in find their real estate taxes rise seniors their house values increase and they look to the day when their sons and daughters will be able to afford to live their higher land costs also become a two edged sword for farmers since most farming is done on credit card and farmers can borrow often up to eighty or ninety percent of the value of their

land not as land value escalated they had an increased ability tomorrow but now with the current recession and the drop in land values to something that mirrored what happened in the midwest in the early part of the eighties which is as land values fell farmers became insolvent their land was not worth as much as what they owed the bank but loud and plantation citizens wanted to ensure that the government wasn't the loudness vision program called for fostering new homes in villages surrounded by open space both developers and preservationist took exception to the program developers say it would push up costs residents say you're going too many homes to western loud ultimately the concept of it was one of the most cherished american beliefs that a man should be allowed to do what he wants with his land it causes the problems that we've talked about before and that means the recovery

private property ownership patents that some people get the wrong and some people dont some stays summonses are the most instances that's the sloth tough nut to crack because that seems somehow unfair and that's but that isn't this is the time to make it completely fur skins this problem is if you say okay everybody has to have an equal chance to develop strong de force and how can we prevent it the mechanisms by which localities to manage growth are very limited virginia law traditionally local governments have sought to hold down densities limiting the number of homes breaker what they wound up was a recipe for sprawl now the countries hard hit by shrinking federal and state funding are finding themselves loaded down with new mandates responsibilities seeking funding from citizens who fiercely

oppose real estate tax increases developers to offer improvements to help with the cost to pass these costs on in the form of increased prices are a new whole grain even more barriers to affordable housing some fear that too stringent limits on land use will bring economic growth to a standstill and the recent recession fuels these regulations are consistent our challenges citizens and residents is to come up with new ways to develop communities that are sustainable economically self sufficient strong care for the natural history resources they have cars and flexible enough to accommodate the needs of citizens every economic class on every age group which parts of the institute for environmental negotiation but increasingly and eric we recognize that we that the communities that may be formed need have conscious

attention well that is that you may not get the community won by just taking care of other things learn what that happiness is something that you don't get by pursuing it directly it comes from doing something else things like that sometimes his self conscious stay tuned

for a roundtable discussion was planning consultant and former mayor of charges against him either senator joseph city manager richard rodgers good evening welcome to our roundtable discussion highest and best a new vision for virginia's land tonight's topic is patterns of development and i am joined by guest writer louis to an architect and columnist by senator joe got one from fairfax virginia by robert bobb city nature of the city of richmond welcome gentlemen we've also had a chance to see this set this video production and i think it might make sense first to start off just by thinking a little bit about how we got to the patterns of development we've been listening to for the last thirty minutes if we look at at what day the demographers tell us at nineteen forty five two thirds of us lived in rural

community spread out across the state of virginia in nineteen ninety two thirds is now live in metropolitan areas adjacent to in an in and around that are older center cities what kinds of things have caused us to out to move in the last forty five years what's been happening in virginia and elsewhere are that has led to the kind of pattern of development that we're looking at here well i think you put your therapist into the marne rivers all tell us that there are that the same demographers from quote those statistics all tell us that their what has happened is that people are living in what has come to be known as the american dream and i say so a freestanding hall on a small plot of ground that white picket fence as poetic and a car or two to get back and forth to work and family needs fulfilling that dream is what has moved people are into suburban communities closer to the

corse it isn't out of the courses too to those suburban communities with their own are inefficient use of land that has resulted in what's called sugar and roll is some peace also i'm accountable to a certain extent that it to some economic changes rich perhaps on we're we're not gonna see reversed anytime soon in other words if you suggest on that is partly this quest for this private plot a grand than that and a house we also have some larger forces at work that we're having to take some account of on that probably in in that the future will will be affecting our patterns of development what are we looking at here well i would i was just a certain forces i mean they are big forces and related to what john just mentioned there's certainly the economic incentive of landing cheaper generally

the further away you go from the inner city and i also think there is a tendency for people and has been for many years to feel like they needed to escape the traditional city that is that for social reasons for economic reasons before other reasons that have to do with security in with a desire for privacy and form perhaps create better schools he will have seen for the last several decades the server suburbs being less problematic more opportunities for the better life as well as the detached house outside of the tradition city i follow up on that i think though that the war finding is that while we had a number of people large numbers of the people moving to suburban areas we're also finding that those individuals are finding the same types of problems that they're moving their finest same problems by moving to the suburbs as they thought they were just gaping by moving from the cities the other thing they're doing is they're

creating they're recreating the same types of amenities in suburban communities as worse amenities that they found in the urban communities pulling our centers a nice suburban communities the building a large expanse of malls the building more neighborhood shopping centers they find themselves building more schools their cost of living continues to increase their finding much more of a hassle transporting back and forth to their employment base and so this lifestyle of moving from the urban cities like skating the urban cities to suburbia they're finding that the long term to become becoming more stressful and we're also finding a very interesting pattern that's occurring in this country is that large numbers of citizens are moving from the suburbs back to the urban cities simply because of the convenience of services

and convenience of being closer to their places of employment but that's actually raise a number of very interesting point i think that we often don't focus as much on the fact that there's at some of our older closer and suburbs are starting to experience some similar kinds of problems you've also suggested that perhaps in some ways they're trying to match some of the positives of cities and there's in a game related topic on it's been called the unit in a recent book that's received a lot of attention edge cities the whole question of whether we're leaving older cities behind in building a new cities around the the yeah serve growing suburban notes are happening out there on is that on the e it's here are your thoughts in some way you're sort of related to that in other words i'm sure you've thought some about this age city phenomenon do you think that reminded to be moving away from our existing cities in and starting new ones a kind of the way we throw away a car when the ash trays for that kind of cowardly what i question i believe that that that be the case the only difference is that they're not

building high rise our office complexes and so the era of the physical landscape in somewhat different that the services that they're trying to replicate are basically the same services that you find in your city i think that's exactly what's happening in the kind of the promise of cavalry we never recognized thirty forty fifty years ago when we were planning something the rural lands around cities that really building new cities that with the farm was something else this is lower intensity this is the suburb but in fact that they also discover very quickly that that the same kinds of amenities the same infrastructure the same services are needed to live outside the city is as in so called traditional city the problem was that they didn't really designed to make the planning didn't direct growth in a way that replicated the physical form and the social form which has to

do with higher density of integration with proximity with choices and that was what was avoided in suburbia so while they replicate the the collection of services they don't replicate the form and that's why the edge city phenomenon is is kind of the soul and they are they have all the goodies that you put on a list of what a solution but they don't look or feel is that at some other but not looking you're behaving like cities this that relayed in a sense to some of the problems we often focus on being in these new ad suburbs that we live in that the pattern of development there many of which we saw on the video that the kinds of clogged highways other other difficulties and in sort of our daily life as it is are you suggesting in some way that that design could help us address some of those is yes because i was part of i think we as the video pointed out to a lot of this was made possible because the automobile

and that was a very inexpensive gasoline nine states it i think for example had we known forty or fifty years ago what we would produce today on the the pattern that we would've actually imposing landscape might have been quite different then i think now there's still time to correct that but it has deftly a function of having this this autonomous vehicles at our disposal which allowed people to go almost anywhere that there might very expensive until now i have this theory that while there is this movement that to the suburbs the suburbs of all and then the suburbs are tending to replicate what was in the city and suburbs the suburbs and many regions have done a very effective job on what i consider to be my land use lockout theory and that by designing a subdivisions within these suburban areas and

so many pay for spots are effectively what they've gone is created a certain income level and the suburban communities which leaves behind which locks out any notion for low income for a full public housing types of development to move into that into suburbia and i'm finally out we're also finding that as as best as americans begin to become more involved in diversity that they're less that we find in large numbers of americans who are less likely to live in a sober but who are now becoming more diversity conscience and does want to rear their children are themselves live in a more diverse community and from that standpoint they're making those choices about a diversified and communities and sober all moving back to the more americans

i was i asked bob if there might not be a possibility years has that type of population movement schiff says it has an intimate partners with people moving back into all of course city areas that had the tyranny of the process i think it's called gentrification we it's bought it for not going to run the risk of the same kind of economic lockout top as the redevelopment of kurds in those areas and they begin to absorb some of of the growth that's gonna be directed at these regions anyway for economic and market conditions the government doesn't really make any attempt to control immigration but in any event art or not we don't have the same potential problem there in the city and all they do oh yes we do i have another theory on this and that they sometime gentrification is is possible

and i've run the risk of on this theory were with some of my with some of my counterparts and that in certain urban communities yuki we should force a gentrification because it does two things it it a diversified is not only income levels of individuals in certain neighborhoods but it also enhances the economic status of those neighborhoods and it brings people from very diverse groups living together again and i think the survival of all communities is is it's not creating more segregated enclaves what opportunities for individuals and difficult to define economic status to live together until i'm i i'm someone i'm a proponent of controlled reverse gentrification in certain dickinson inner city neighborhoods in and i'm not sure how you accomplished that through

with three some wild land use patterns or some while city ordinances or something of the snitch no id they need your comments actually cause needed to think of it might make sense first to to look just briefly before we leave the subject of cities at the question i think that until quite recently maybe for the last ten years or so there there seems to have been a feeling that the cities needed to take care of themselves and the rest of us which would move forward if we didn't happen to be city folks i think the events on the streets of los angeles in recent weeks had suggested to people that maybe city's belong to all of us and that that we can't necessarily move to the suburb and what the bridge or build a wall around this or redevelop the city and build an enclave that keeps a separate from others on that how do you all feel about the question of the extent to which cities have got to be everyone's concerned do they eat so why how what are the implications of two folks and suburbs in rural areas be concerned about this i think

they should be concerned about a cummings a good to her gave the best example of this in from regional standpoint and he indicated that this is his notion is that the the the city is is the region of his lack of apple with the city been the core of that apple and if we allow the corps to deteriorate then every area around it begins to deteriorate and that there is a need for suburban communities in a region in the metropolitan areas of richmond to ensure that we have a strong inner city because we market these areas wheat market the city hall in trying to richmond is its richmond any extra us to richmond terry as opposed to him reichl area the chest if you're adventurous probably case in other parts of calm will i would i would like to talk a minute related to them about the political structures jurisdictional geography if you will that we have this

i think that what we are looking at the data is a sort of eighteenth and nineteenth century political map to look at at cities in a nominally metropolitan areas around the united states including those in virginia but what you see is a jurisdictional pattern that of course goes back a long way but in fact at the time those were created the major section in the communities where were small they tend to tend not to interact with me each other rather than through the book the travels from one can lead to another by people who are involved in trade and commerce what happens when we get into a century a culture and urban civilization in which these jurisdictional boundaries are almost meaningless and both physically as well as non physically that is that we have economic linkages with social issues as we have all kinds of of interdependence is that essentially make them that the old jurisdictional boundaries much less

meaningful and yet we are continuing to manage our selves as if we were still back in the eighteenth and nineteenth century what i'm suggesting in other words is that what we really need to to revisit is the whole strategy for how we govern in a region and as opposed to thinking of it isn't as a galaxy of separate independent autonomous and don't bother me not in my backyard communities a decision made over here affects me over there but what would someone goes in and no falls church can affect someone in the fairfax city in fact what some windows in richmond can affect someone in fairfax and i think of that if we get the public to understand that the method of governance that we are still using is it's perhaps not what it should be for today's kind of urban suburban collaboration i think it would really make a great deal of progress is your sense that sensation that

gel like why is it so much easier to say to new in terms of governing ourselves differently i attended lingle us for four weeks a regional conference of people's economic and other interests in washington not partner trying to explore current conditions in what was called us for the purposes of the conference the state of columbia are importing the notion that there was so much commonality to the problems affecting every political subdivision in the region that they will have to think in terms of love of solving them in some sort of a state like are you at all we came to the conclusion in our conference on monday be interested in the notion that whatever kind of a structure institution scheme was put together the core of the region was the district of columbia

and that all that they have the va system the institution that and i could evolve whatever it might be that had to issue is that that core prosper that it delights the quality of life of its people improve and so forth it's easy enough to think of was with the city awash in which is after all the seat of the federal government and then we have forces other than just economic and market forces dictating who stays in that city who go and i'm not sure how you translate that theory to pay for a region with a core city in the middle of it that doesn't have that pulling power for that reason but but that aside and they've they really began to think and talk seriously about using a state model as an approach to the governments of that area obviously doesn't mean a fifty first date that i don't want anybody in on virginia key advocate statehood with the court for the district of columbia those other different

question of what op and there is i think eight a growing awareness that we cannot do on things we do in the backrooms that we have traditionally been and there how you move from here and there of course is going to be the subject of a lot of discussion for a long time but it is precisely the kind of thing you know it certainly is a topic as we all know discussion in a number of states at the state level and and certainly at lower regional levels within states as well says he's suggesting in regional presented it there are some pressures note for totally different reasons and restored to work on those a political subdivisions like the clean air act like and the provisions of the new inner surface intermodal surface transportation something the ice tv that are going to be forcing the jurisdictions to get into the reality of cooperation even though as you say

as a matter of vocabulary it may come out they returned a distance i'd just returned from florida not too long ago where they were the state under the commissions about the garment is beginning to look at state wide planning state wide vision and as is the soldiers and there are certainly an issue is already been started in the united states too accomplish some of our climate which doesn't necessarily imminent threat in the autonomy of local jurisdictions in those areas where local autonomy should be and such endeavor of course is underway at center garland is a vice chair of the virginia's commission on population growth and development which houses there was a member on so that that that we're working along with other states to think about that kind of state local partnership and regional as well for accomplishing some of these things but did you want to yes sir like to pose a question with third december garland i think so much of the movement from the inner

city again into suburban is our economic growth and there's this competition within these regions for this whole notion of economic development and and perhaps an area in which are the state it could help these regions two to cooperate better is if we could come up with this whole notion of some context they sharing which eliminates some of the competition for example the year the plant that locates from the inner city into the suburban area the intercity loses all of its tax bases and on the days it is somehow from a regional perspective when that plant located from the inner city to the suburban community that somehow that the inner city still shares in the us at thirty percent of that revenues generated out their names and then maybe cheered on that on a regional basis conversely if the new plan will face in the city than inner city distribute

some of it so its share that anchorman i think this whole notion that economic pressures again an economic development was also forced of this dirt to transfer a sense of community and discipline but if it's if you're focused and what we contemplate as economic development means the location that that the movement of existing economic activity whether the plant's when they're not on a central office's big service industries outsourcing if it means taking that economic activity out of one place and putting in another you just talking about a transfer of wealth from one to the other and that but without the jurisdiction from which it came as the poor and no one to which it went is richer but heavy develop anything economically is nothing new there and spending bill but that what has happened is that it had to fit in more cases than not they're coming out in an inner city area typically move into a

suburban areas typically some state policy through his transportation board will will build an exchange often express will accommodate them and it seems to me that there's as you and the other thing that happens those jobs are transporter suburban area regional transportation system public transportation and get those inner city residents to those suburban jobs so you leave the inner city at large i guess what i'm saying is that it doesn't seem to me that there's a real good valid reason for the transfer of that activity unless the owners of it legitimately think there's a prospect of they're making more money doing better economically after the move than it was before folks are going to have to allow me to iraq as a sissy watching the time we don't have a great deal of time i think would be very remiss if we didn't focus a little bit down from the state regional level on to the local regulatory level

to talk a little bit about this whole area patterns of development are obviously affected not just by individual behavior and desires but also by that the kinds of regulations we do or don't have in place and i would like to get i know that that god you have various thoughts both about the appropriateness of government having some say in that how we develop land in question whether our regulations are our out of positive or not in accomplishing what we want let's let's just talk a minute in and pratt said that if we can get a brief thoughts and that'll give a set opportunity for multiple once well it was be willing to go and this mystery what i've said sometimes in the washington post which is i think our planning and zoning regulations which essentially are locally adopted have not worked well i think that we are that we need regulations but i think the ones we've been using aren't the right ones i think that

there has been an insufficiency on the part of local jurisdictions in doing my local fine grained planning in committing to paper very definitive patterns for how the future should take shape in their within their boundaries i think that if we were to revisit the whole planning and zoning aspect of jurisdictional behavior that would make a tremendous difference at least in the visual form and meet and the functional efficacy with which are settlements like i have and that's the grand lodges and most of the zoning that we've enacted has really done the job that we hope to let me do something it's very difficult and say that i've been asking folks we have really just a few minutes left before as if we think there are some problems in the patterns of development that we face today i'll let me ask each of you to take just about thirty seconds or so to indicate

what you think we ought to focus our attention on everyone to move in a new direction well we sort of hideous commission on population growth and development for the us for what we have come to a conclusion at least at this point that all of the state of the commonwealth needs to get its own house in order with respect to the whole world a set of ideas that lead to a local regulation informal planning and zoning ordinances least have some idea from a point of your future growth where it's going how one side growth shape and setting standards by which the localities themselves would have to participate in that shipping process case of joseph get the state's house in order i would agree with that i think that to a large extent the localities really need to have followers say state it as long as there's a grand scheme there are some standards that localities can work those additional leadership

from the state would go a long way and also control abroad to know that they get the local level ordinances and in the way we treat land use issues haven't kept pace with the vision for our local communities i know that's a that apropos the word vision that there a lot of live music really had a vision for what they're going to be like in twenty ten or twenty twenty and that requires a mano things some design to actual says a core version in which people can understand what a place my lookalike and the life of the twenty three four years to write community patient state involvement leadership and goals we come to the end of our time sadly there's some like we could talk about i'd like to thank our panelists that roger louis dzhokhar garland about for being here this evening sharing your thoughts with us we'll be back next week at the same time when our topic will be economics of growth thank you to all two of you for joining us and good night it's been

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