In Black America; Former FBI Executive Assistant Director John D. Glover

From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. What we did when we first realized that was a problem that was a little bit unique in Atlanta, we were contacted by the Bureau of Atlanta Police Services and we offered the assistance of the FBI and assisting them in facilitating outside of state leads. We also offered the services of the FBI laboratory to them and the FBI's identification division to them and we had another process it's called a visual investigative analysis and it's a way of tracking your leads on a very, very complex investigation so we initially offered

that kind of service to them. John D. Glover, former executive assistant director at FBI headquarters. On February 16, 1979, Glover became the first African-American to head an FBI field office when he was named special agent in charge in Milwaukee. The first assignment with the Bureau was the Kansas City field office where he served until his transfer in February 1968 to the Washington D.C. field office. In 1982 prior to becoming executive assistant director, Glover served at the assistant director of the inspection division. He was the first African-American to hold that position. In 1980, he left him in Milwaukee field office to head the Atlanta field office until his appointment as assistant director. To understand that special agent in charge in Atlanta, he supervised the FBI investigation of the apparent serial murders of African-American boys, a case known as the Atlanta Child Murders. In 1989, he retired from the FBI.

I'm John L. Hanson, Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week's program, former executive assistant director with the FBI, John D. Glover, In Black America. I'm one person with one person's view, of course, but I don't know that I have. In fact, are you talking about within the FBI? No, okay. The FBI is kind of an interesting organization, interesting from the standpoint that we deliver a law enforcement service, and we are very, very much performance-oriented. When a person performs well and begins to move up, I think that person is respected by his or her peers. It's not necessarily on the basis of who you know or whatever, it's seen on the basis of performance and on the basis of merit. So, I think I've moved up throughout the bureau. I've pet myself on the back a bit based

on a lot of hard work, and I think I am where I am because I deserve to be here based on my achievements. Create as a minor division of the Department of Justice in July 1908. The Federal Bureau of Investigation grew steadily over the next decade, as its role in powers were enlarged. Between 1910 and 1996, Congress enacted a series of laws that have increasingly regulated personal political and economic activities. By expanding the definition of crimes of interstate commerce, Congress extended federal law enforcement responsibilities to areas that previously exclusively local and state responsibilities. Born on February 1, 1939 in Miami, Florida, John D. Glover earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Education in 1961 from Florida and in university. After graduation, he taught high school before joining the FBI in 1966. Glover's first assignment was the Kansas City Field Office. On February 16,

1979, Glover was appointed special agent in charge in Milwaukee, making him the first African American and FBI history to head a field office. Before being appointed executive assistant director in 1982, he served as a fire arms instructor and a supervisor in the identification division. I was at a point in teaching when I thought I wanted to do something more. I was not totally happy with what I was doing in the teaching profession. I thought I had made some contributions there, but I think I was ready to do something more. I think it was more a personal choice. I had grown up in Miami, I had gone to college in Tallahassee, Florida, was back in my Miami teaching school. At this point, I was about 26 years of age. I said, well, I haven't really left the state of Florida. There's got to be more to life than that. I was involved

in the education system throughout, and I wanted to try something outside of education. I talked to a friend of mine who somehow mentioned law enforcement. I started looking at the police department and within the city of Miami, and then finally ultimately decided that if I was going to be in law enforcement, I wanted to be associated with what at least I thought to be the best law enforcement organization in the country, and that led me to the FBI. At that time, were there great numbers of blacks involved in the Bureau in 1966? In 1966, there were very few. In fact, the number was somewhere as I understand it to be less than 40, perhaps out of about a little more than 6,000 agents, so there were not that many blacks in the FBI at that time. What type of process did you have to go through once

to sign that you wanted to be a part of the Bureau of the training, the written examinations, et cetera? Well, initially, I went down to the local FBI office and I talked to the individual there in charge of applicant recruitment. We talked about my background, my education and experience. He asked me to fill out an application form and I did. The process has changed a little bit. Now we give out a very small card initially, but at this time, the application form itself consisted of about a 10-page application, so I took it home. I took me about two weeks to fill it out. In fact, one time, because of all the detailed nature of the questions, I became discouraged, put it in my desk drawer and it was, I took a follow-up call on the part of the FBI agent who was interested in seeing me onboard in the FBI. It took a call from him to get me to pull the application form out of my desk

to continue on with the application process. So I submitted the application process, gave some references, took a written examination at that time and apparently had scored at least successfully enough on it to be further considered. I was afforded to other interviews one by the assistant agent in charge of the office and another by the agent in charge of the office and things were going pretty good and the next thing I knew they were in the process of conducting a background investigation to further determine my suitability to be an FBI agent. So initially, that's the process. What are the jobs you have held before becoming an assistant director in charge of the inspection division? Well I started out in my first office of Kansas City, Missouri and I, coming from Miami,

never really visited the Midwest and I went to Kansas City, stayed there a little over a year, returned to the Washington Field Office in Washington, DC, having general criminal assignments, fugitive cases in a state transportation of stolen motor vehicle cases, moved to Washington, DC at Washington Field Office, also did general criminal investigative work. After I had been in the bureau for about four years doing that kind of work, I had an opportunity to do some lecturing and it reminded me of my teaching experiences and I just let it be known to the administrators at that point that at some future time I might be interested in teaching at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia and nothing was done immediately on that

but I guess several months later I received some inquiry. I left Washington Field Office and went down to Quantico, Virginia as a firearms instructor. I stayed there for a while. My next assignment was in the identification division where we handle and process all the fingerprints cards that come in. I was the training coordinator of the identification division. I kept that job for a couple of years and my assistant director thought I had enough managerial and supervisory skills that I should be considered for a further promotion recommended me as an inspectors aid in our inspection division and I served in a tour on the inspection staff for about a year and in that capacity we go around and conduct

onsite examinations of all of our field offices to see whether or not they're in compliance with our own rules and regulations. I then after I left the inspection division went to our special projects section. We handle trial exhibits. We do a lot of special project work within the bureau. From there I was promoted to assistant agent and charge and I went to our Newark Field Office. I was there for about a year and a half, served a second tour of duty on the inspection staff this time as a full inspector. In other words, when I was first on the inspection staff I went as a member of a team. This time I went back as the team leader. I did that for a little less than a year and from there I was designated special agent and charge went to Milwaukee and after serving in Milwaukee I served in

a second capacity as special agent and charge in Atlanta and from Atlanta I was promoted to the position of assistant director within the inspection division which position I now serve in. When you say inspection though what are you speaking of when you go out to the different office to see if they're complying to you all's rules and regulations? Yeah what it's an internal audit or internal inspection function. We are the phallac of a better phrase, the bureaus internal watchdogs. The question often comes up you know who watched the watchers well. I watch the watchers. We watch the FBI and we go out and we conduct a top down and a bottom up effectiveness and efficiency review of all operations in a field office that goes from the number of personnel whether or not it's adequate the

cases whether or not they're being appropriately dressed whether or not they have the resources to address the particular crime problem whether they know the crime problem is and just how efficiently and how effectively those resources are being managed so that's what I mean by an inspection. How many directors assistant directors are within the bureau at the present time? We've got 11 assistant directors within the bureau and out of 11 you're the only blank that is the director of a division. I certainly am yes that's correct. Have you encountered any racism more sold in what happens in everyday life living here in America being in the position that you have? Not that I have been able to detect I'm one person with one person's view of course but I don't know that I have. In fact are you talking about within the FBI not okay the FBI is kind of an interesting organization interesting from the standpoint that we deliver a law enforcement service and we are very very much performance

oriented and when we have a person performs well and begins to move up I think that person is respected by his or her peers and it's not necessarily on the basis of who you know or whatever it's it's seen on the basis of performance and on the basis of merit and so I think I've moved up throughout the bureau I'm pet myself on the back a bit based on a lot of hard work and I think I am where I am because I deserve to be here based on my achievements. Throughout the years the FBI hasn't had a very good picture within the black community depends on what side of the tracks that you live in. How has the bureau tried to enhance a better the image towards black Americans and also better the image of allowing blacks the opportunity to move up in the bureau. I think you touched on it John and that

is that I think there's a there's a cycle and the cycle can be positive or negative and some instances in certain portions of black Americans been perceived negatively it starts with role models that were very few blacks in the bureau so there was no real identification of a number of blacks with the FBI when a black person saw an FBI much as it has been with the law enforcement profession generally it was in connection with a particular investigation they didn't know anybody who went to their church or they didn't necessarily see them in a human capacity and I think it hurt the bureau's ability to accomplish its mission because I think that was not the kind of trust that there should be existing between the black

community generally and the FBI what is the FBI done to try to improve that. Recognizing that we are a national organization and we serve the citizens of this country we've made a conscious effort to target minority recruitment director Webster has been very aggressive in trying to bring more blacks on the rows of the FBI we have a very high profile media office and public relations effort we tend seminars minority seminars we usually try to participate in the urban leagues we try to participate in the NAACP conferences just to let people know that you know the FBI is there that we see ourselves in a service capacity to the community and we're interested in recruiting more blacks to our service so those

are the things that we've been trying to do lately we've had some measure of success the measure of success has not been nearly as much as I'd like to see and I don't think it's been as much as director Webster would like to see it gets to be somewhat of a complicated question and if you'd like we could go into that either now or later I wanted to ask you when you're out on college campuses particularly historically black college campuses what is the feedback you receive from them as far as their reluctance or their view of the bureau in 1985 first of all it's one of exposure it's one of educating there are a lot of black people who don't know very much about the FBI and what they know it's it's generally negative so what I try to do is to the extent that I can is to explain what the FBI does explain what our role is in investigations how we relate to other agencies I try to explain the

opportunities that are available to anyone coming on board with the FBI the conversations the typical seminar would be that the first couple hours would be spent responding to negative questions you know why did the FBI do this in 1968 or why did it do this in 1966 and where are you now and what you're all about I try to explain the bureau's position on that and we establish a meaningful dialogue and I think once we get beyond the meaningful dialogue stage and they feel better about the FBI if that is what results from that dialogue then the person perhaps and only then can begin to think about perhaps joining the roles of the FBI but that's what we're about and that's how we go about it there are a lot of negative myths out there and I think we contribute to it in one way we of course handle a lot of very delicate

investigations and because we do a lot of times when a particular question comes up we can't respond to it perhaps several months later when we do respond to it it's not newsworthy there's something else competing for the the attention of the public so very often the FBI story doesn't get towed and the purpose for going around to historical black colleges and universities and what we try to do with our minority media story is to tell the FBI's side of the story as I indicated it's not always on a timely basis but when we can discuss it we discuss it to the maximum extent possible you supervised the bureau's investigation into the Atlanta murders what did the bureau do for the Atlanta police department in that investigation and some of the unique techniques that you all use

what we did when we first realized that was a problem that was a little bit unique in Atlanta we were contacted by the Bureau of Atlanta police services and we offered the assistance of the FBI and assisting them in facilitating outside of state leads we also offered the services of the FBI laboratory to them and the FBI's identification division to them and we had a another process it's called a visual investigative analysis and it's a way of of tracking your leads on a very very complex investigation so we initially offered that kind of service to them ultimately we became co partners with the bureau and with the task force and working that case and just conducted an extremely extensive massive search assisted in all phases of the of the case and ended up

persisting in the search of the home of the ultimate subject in that in that case developing a number of fibers as evidence of hairs as evidence which substantially ended up being kind of and you know that the full development of the case as it as it came out it strained my family I had been away from my family for several months because I had been under transfer from Milwaukee to Atlanta my family initially at the outset of the case was still in Milwaukee I couldn't get to Milwaukee to see them as often as I wanted to that created certain tensions my family ultimately moved to Atlanta and I sold my house wasn't able to assist in the normal transition period so my

wife had to be particularly strong and Pauline is particularly strong she played mommy daddy during that period of time we have three children two were in college at the time I had one son at home my son Mark who was at home was a very age of some of the victims and the murdered and missing children's case in Atlanta we guarded him very very closely we did not allow him to play outside in the yacht which is something that boys his age having been there myself pretty much accustomed to doing and it was a very restrictive situation and I'm quite certain that that situation existed for many many other especially black families in Atlanta doing this particular time so we had a number of young kids in Atlanta who for approximately a two year period were not allowed

to be kids and to go out and play and roam and do the things that kids normally do so those times were extremely stressful times both professionally and personally for me you've been with the bureau now for 19 years other experiences memorable experiences you've had here with the bureau well I've been been very fortunate in the bureau as you indicated when I came in in 1966 that were not that many black agents since that were not that many I had an opportunity to work on a lot of very complex cases I know that at one point in time when I was assigned here to Washington field office I would get involved in a number of extortion cases a number of kidnapping cases and all and I initially looked at that a little bit negatively because I was involved in so much so many different cases

some were on the squad that I was working on and some the cases were on other squads and as I said I initially looked at that a little bit negative you know why am I being stretched in so many different ways I ultimately however looked at it from a positive standpoint I was gaining the kind of experience that ultimately serving me well in the long haul I went to New Jersey had the opportunity as the first assistant agent in charge of an office who was black and that was a very pioneering experience my present job as a pioneering experience is there somewhat uneasiness living in a FBI family someone working within the bureau I don't think so and I don't and I'm trying to speak from the perspective of my children I don't think so I think they've kind of benefited by places that we've lived in communities

especially that we found ourselves and the FBI name is as positive and so the kids have been able to to enjoy that status of their father being an FBI agent you know so and it hasn't really been that negative as you know we don't necessarily get involved in low-level street type crimes what we tend to do is to get involved in those cases where we think I have some national importance and national significance those are organized crime why call a crime case and of course foreign kind of intelligence type cases so our association with top quality work I think tends to be a positive in the eyes of people in the community generally and I think my kids have benefited by

we've traveled some I think they've had the opportunity to see some places and do some things that they would not have been able to do otherwise and some instances of travel can be destabilizing and it is difficult for black families I think more difficult to relocate sometimes difficulty in selling houses some people just don't want to buy a house from you if you buy and if you find yourself in a community where you feel comfortable and sometimes it's difficult to want to leave that and try and experience that you have no idea how it will turn out but we've been fortunate things have worked out extremely well for us and that regard so my being in the FBI I think ultimately has been overall a very positive family type involvement John D Glover

former executive assistant director of the FBI headquarters if you have questions comments or suggestions at your future in black america programs email us at jhanson hans.org at kut.org also let us know what radio station you heard us offer the views and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or of the University of Texas at Austin you can hear previous programs online at kut.org until we have the opportunity again for technical producer David Alvarez I'm John L. Hanson junior thank you for joining us today please join us again next week CD copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing in black america CDs kut radio one university station Austin Texas 78712 that's in black america CDs kut radio one university station Austin Texas 78712 this has been a production of kut

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