OutCasting; Transgender identity and issues faced by trans people in sports (Part 1 of 4)

before i came out i say that it's probably the fbi six months maybe more thinking about how it can tell when my mom and you're right i got myself sort of over it that way actually told her and she said okay just a lot you you know just like we disagree that's it this is a casting public radio's lgbt q youth program we don't have to be clear to be here are testing is a production of media for the public good but listener supported independent producer based in new york online an outcast medium dot org hi i'm sam on this edition about casting will talk about some of the issues faced by transgender people in sports this is the first part of a four part series hi i'm travis for most people gender is a simple matter their girls or boys or women or men there's no conflict between the gender they feel they are in the biological sex of their bodies but that's not true for everyone

some people who were born into a girl's body feel themselves to be male and some people born into a boy's body feel themselves to be female speaking very broadly the word transgender has come into common usage to describe a wide range of people who self perceived gender doesn't match the sex of their bodies most of us have never needed a word to describe her gender identity we just take it for granted but just as the visibility of gay and bisexual people because other people to start thinking of themselves as heterosexual or straight the growing visibility of transgender people has promised the word assist gender c i s g e n d e r says gender describing people who are not transgender most of us and most of you listen to this program are probably says gender but on this edition about casting are talking with chris mosher an athlete who self identifies as a trans care thank you so much for joining us chris faced another man chris is a trans advocate educator coach and three time iron man triathlon is the founder of trans

athlete dot com a resource for athletes coaches and administrators to find information on trans inclusive sports policies before we start we should talk about a few definitions transgender people are the t in lgbt q the discrimination they face is an important ways similar to the discrimination face by lesbians gays bisexuals for that reason trans people are all included in the general acronym lgbt q and to an extent in the fight for equality though generally the trans movement has not advanced as far as the gay rights movement have talked about that and other dishes about casting but some of the issues and trans identity are very different from the issues and sexual orientation when we talk about sexual orientation are talking about and you're attracted to which trans identity were talking about who you feel you all are male female or something else as a society we tend to think in binary terms boy girl days straight and those

binary distinctions make sense for a lot of people but for a lot of other people they don't people are more complicated than that and the binary way of thinking it excludes a lot of people that exclusion leads to a lack of understanding and that can translate into fear and discrimination one of our goals are now casting is to explore the range of human diversity with people whose lives maybe different some ways with greater understanding we hope comes greater acceptance the lives of transgender people can be as different from each other as they are from the lives of sustained or people for some trans people it can mean presenting oneself to the world as a member of a different sex earlier on our testing we talk with drew gray owens a trans activists who self identifies as dual gender in her professional life she identifies as a man in the rest of her life she lives as a woman for other people being trans can mean hormone therapy and gender can from surgery these and other modes of living are all equally valid it's up to trans people to

determine for themselves what their life should be like and what steps they would need to take to bring their lives into harmony chris mosher we know that the conflict between self perceive gender identity and the sex of the body are born with because greece stressed turmoil and happiness but evans experiences different describe first i felt before your transition felt really confused and i didn't have to language for what it was that i was actually feeling which i think was even more of a challenge for me then just experiencing those emotions i think from a very young age i thought that i would grow up to be a man and i have an early memory of being four years old outside playing with the neighborhood kids and they were all boys so we all have our shirts off and my aunt came over and hope pulled me to the side and said you need to put your shirt on little girls can't run around like that and you know looking back it more as an adult i have a lot of these moments where i was exhibiting them a

boyish behavior or stereo typically boyish behavior and it felt very normal for me so you know i felt it i think i didn't understand my feelings about it until there was a conflict and that conflict came from other people telling me that the behavior that i was exhibiting wasn't rights it wasn't normal so you're literally hit around puberty when it's okay for little girls to be tumble is up to a certain point and then after a certain point there's post you can offend up or you know act more feminine the morgue early and that really wasn't the case for me and that was sort of where i started to experience the messages from society of saying the way that i was was not normal and ideally know to do it that i didn't know any trans people until after i was out of college so i didn't have in person experience with folks who had a similar journey as i had so i am i really

just fought very confused in and trying to figure out i knew how i felt inside but it didn't really match up with the way society expected me to behave and how did you start to change your identification from female to trends guy well i think a lot of it was doing a lot of research before i had made that decision and at the research really came from online youtube was a huge part of my transition and you know i know him not knowing any trans people in person i didn't really have anyone to look too so i did this library thing ticked up books and read a lot of critical theory about trends in people's personal narratives about transition but i wasn't really seeing folks you were my age and i wasn't seeing folks you had a similar experience as i did so i was still kind of grasping for you know some

sort of common ground with someone i really want someone to kind of walk me through the process it would've been so helpful to just have a friend who could've been like me let's talk about your gender identity your or cures what my experience was how does that match up to you to what you're feeling but i didn't have that so i think i just one day i knew to type did and you know trans guy our trans man and all of these stories came up and i found a whole community on youtube that was documenting their transition am a lot of them were younger end here at i felt more connected to their stories and they shared things about you before they came out coming out to their family what their experiences are like some of them coming out at work in some the challenges that they face getting hormones what hormones were like what happens to their body and their mental state when they took them how awesome it was and that was really when i have insurance or formally my own thoughts about

transition was there to remember like the first video that made things quick in your head i think the the first video that i really will watch that made things clicked that that made me think ok this seems to fit for me it was a video called transgender basics and it's put out by the lgbt center in new york city and it serves about twenty minute video features laverne cox and this was before she was on orange is the new black before she was on our creepy the end at it was sharing her experience the experience of the trends guy and the experience of someone who identified as gender queer and they all told their personal stories of growing up figuring out how they came to their gender identity and what life was like for them after and i've probably watched that video twenty five times before i decided to come out and it was also the video that i sent to all

of my family and friends when i started to explain what trans was you were meant for me it really is just such a great primer for people to get an understanding of transgender basics as it's called aisles easing in my trains when it sits on trains for college students and how has the way that you identify yourself changed over time you know i think my identity as has changed and continues to change and it's something about identity i didn't use fluid to changes over time and as a society we get really locked into identifying people one way or another and one example of that is being a vegetarian read so if if you don't eat meat and people know you as not a meter if you decide that they can just smells delicious and you have to have some bacon if you become a bacon eater people arrested no you're a vegetarian you don't eat bacon wrapped up people's tastes change over time too so

for me my identity was i never identified as a woman really i didn't know what i identified as but it certainly wasn't that and that and that sort of ties in with sexuality as well i never identified as lesbian because i didn't identify as woman i am i sort of started to identify as gender queer and an androgynous for a while and i thought that that would fit and then as i did more user of research about what medical transition would entail what would be the effects of taking testosterone and aligning my body more with the way that i thought that i would have grown up i decided that i could do i couldn't exist sort of in the middle ground so identify now as a trans guy an hour sale of media identifies a trans man someday when i can grow a full beard but until then like the term trends guy down but there are some term some terms and some terminology that i that i don't feel

particularly attached to like ft m and that's not something that i would never identify myself as but sometimes when folks are talking about me that's the terminology terminology that the league so for you transition was about how becoming an idealized self or who you thought you were supposed to be i think it was about matching my outside with my inner feelings and you know being able to look in the mirror and can see myself reflected back and there was a long period of time where i didn't like having photos taken of myself still even for me right now it's really difficult to look back at photos year before transition and i i had it i had great experiences growing up and i was a generally happy kid but i know that he didn't really match with what i thought that i would look like or if you didn't and that it impacted my feelings a lot was well you closer to starting take testosterone and i really felt like and when i would see myself in the mirror

i didn't recognize the person that was not the person who i expected to be reflected back of me and which is why i'm not a fan of photos from early evening for before transition yeah that's kind of a hard place for me to go to to look back on this is an outcast public radio's lgbt q youth program produced by media for the public good in new york online at podcasting media dot org we're talking about the experience of transgender athletes have crisp mosher a transgender applicants educator coach and three time imam traffic is the founder of trans athlete dot com a resource for athletes coaches and administrators to foster a community of inclusion what is immune to two have now as a trans guy it means that i can live authentically as myself

and not really have to hide anymore end for for so long growing up i try to make myself invisible and it's funny because i'm a leo and people say you know the us like the spotlight and like the attention and i'm very much for the duration of growing up i tried to make myself as small and as invisible hand as in the corner as possible and that carried into my adult life and minister of serbia become a problem a really impacted me socially of you know go places and just try to fade into the background that's all i wanted part of that was because i was getting harassed a lot because of my parents it's and it's very challenging for people to not be able to identify someone's gender and so i would have instances walking down the street in new york city in chicago in los angeles in various cities places that you think would be more progressive and not really care what people look like where people were just flat out say or you die or girl

and andy really aggressive about needing to know my gender identity and for that reason europe really just wanted to fade into the background i we get a large social situations and i would just close down and you know just totally disconnect to live now as a trans guy where i feel comfortable i'm identified as male and in an open and they're able to be open about my trans experience i'm really allows meets you have broken that show a little bit over the past couple years and i really feel like a more full person like i i can really just be my true self and not have to worry him and i still have a little that worries about harassment and discrimination but not prohibitive us not impacting my life in a negative way at this point and has your self identification change depending on situations are you always christmas or trans guy i'm always christmas or trans guide i will say that there are some experiences that i have where i really brought a lot of just

for the trans peace to kind of go away and i think it's you know i'm kind of conflicted about that because i understand the need for transgender role models and i think it's a look for some just to say you know i'm a role model in you but i am a public figure now that i've been so open about my transition particularly as an athlete so i know that there is a need for me to be open and honest about my experience because there are trans kids out there another trans adults who are hiding there i'm sure if the you have the strength transition if it'll be ok to transition if they can continue to play sports everyday transition all of those things the other part of me encourages wants to live my life as male like i thought that i would when i was a kid so i had i have found experiences where job interviews for example

where i question whether or not i should bring up my trans identity because i feel like that might hurt me in some ways so it i always identify as a trans guy but there are certainly moments where i'm conflicted about my identity and beef between being a trans guy just begun how unique or common do you think your experience was coming and transition i think every experience is different i will say that i think my experience was a lot less difficult than i thought it would be which was shocking in a really did way before i came out i spent probably last six months maybe more thinking about how i was going to tell mom my mom and hear it i get myself so worked up over it that way actually told her and she said okay as a lawyer you know i was like wait a second that's it like i expected more of a of a back and

forth the most of having to explain myself and i expect more resistance and that was kind of similar to what i experienced at work to what i experienced with friends that most people my life who knew me were really cool because they knew me like if if anybody knew me they'd know it would be more shocking for me to show up the next day to work in a dress than to tell them that i was transgender so you i don't think he was really on people's radar but people were really shocked by it and because they knew me unlike me already i had a really good experience in coming out i don't think that that's everybody's experience and i've had some challenging pieces with family as well but i am he bared you know there isn't a typical experience many people faced resistance in different areas their life i still face resistance in some areas of my life i can mention that the job search and it i don't think that water go away but i'm

comfortable with it now but would have meant to you too need a trans person before you went to college earlier in her life especially if it was a trans athlete i think about this all the time i think but everything changed for me i am certain everything will change for me a lot sooner and i try to have regrets in my life but i do have a piece of me that goes what if we what if i would've known that being trans was a thing right that there was an option for me was i would've known this when i was in college was only known this when i was in high school as i can think back now to experiences where it certainly thought that i was going to make as a group to be a guy and when that was happening you know i have i had a lot of emotional stress is it is depressing for me a lot of things on it if i would've had that opportunity to know someone and hear about their experience and get this terminology and

understanding what it meant to be trans i think that you know a ten year span of my life and i'm very different so how much of the word transgender mean to you was edward you had never heard before he was as part of the acronym lgbt i really didn't have and understanding of it my experience in college with trans people was that every year we had a drag show and i wouldn't call drag queens trans necessarily unless they self identified that way but that was kind of his close it within the transgender umbrellas as we got and why we would bring drag queens from milwaukee the five hours up to northern michigan university and have a drag show and it was a one night thing once a year and that was kind of the most celebration of gender nonconformity and there was a student piece of that were drag queens in dr king's could perform and so i don't see a

little bit of that but i was one night only and so he wants that moment passed like the best idea past so i recognize now that i have i really wasn't ready to transition at that point my life i didn't have the full understanding of it but you know i do wonder what if we've been talking with christmas or transgender ashley thanks so much for joining us chris our guest chris moser is featured in the film called it just gender which looks at the realities of transgender lives let's listen to a short excerpt of gender variant people express their gender differently to varying degrees from culturally conventional roles of men or women based on physical gender as we will see a transgender umbrellas my endeavors part of the challenge in understanding the transgender umbrella arises because there is a tendency to believe that all people really fit into one of two gender groups male and female

from the earliest moments of earth we're introduced to this primary a view of the world are increasing there is a greater recognition that biology itself defies district binary view of nature including gender changing animals fish and birds determining gender in humans is not simply a task of equating sex genitals with gender even looking at only physical sex based on genitals gives rise to discussion among academics what sex should be attributed to enter sexed persons born with both male and female genitals similarly what gender should be assigned to children with neither the x x more x y chromosome pattern is a man born males still mail if he loses the genitals from injury orchestration because social norms require the genitals be clothed in public gender identity is normally conveyed through a combination of physical attributes behaviors

gestures and appearance is accepted as normal to a man or woman such norms change over time for example prior to world war one little boys wore pink and girls were blown it is an oversimplification to reduce the diversity under the transgender umbrella to a few categories nevertheless it is helpful to do so i'm trying to better understand the commonality as well as the distinctions within that diversity cross dresser is generally where clothing or other elements of appearance commonly associated by a particular society with the opposite sex cross dressers are generally distinguished from people who made dan coats of the opposite sex for disguise entertainment or holiday custom and while no cross dressers do not want to stop the e mails and ask him then they do want to be able to express a feminine identity occasionally or often

some people prefer to live in most or all of their lives that's the opposite sex without any desire for gender reassignment surgery historically the term transgender wrists had been applied to such people people who feel a strong desire to undergo gender reassignment surgery and possibly a full time in the opposite gender are frequently referred to as transactions the term was popularized by harry benjamin the germans had solid just and author of the groundbreaking book the transsexual phenomenon is largely in connection with the highly publicized early gender reassignment surgery is patient christine jorgensen in nineteen fifty two and i don't have any plans at the moment

coming much for many transgender people the issue is more about how they feel and express themselves and less about what they way or how they cut their hair or what is between their legs you know for a lot of people is this is the thing they get very focused on an around the surgery or one moment where somebody is transgendered my name is partly because indians and this perception the truth is somebody says it generated he's very mature it's clearly not a choice really when you look at what people are putting at stake when the need to transition people risk losing not only their family their friends their job but they risk putting themselves out there in the world is to be made fun of to be harassed on a daily basis and to be put at risk

getting murdered while some suggest that transgender people are the result of degenerate western societies history shows that the underlying reality is neither knew no unique to any society we've been listening to a short excerpt from the film just gender which looks at the realities of transgender lives it's aimed at schools and corporate diversity programs among other audiences the film is available through keynote lorber films that's it for this edition about casting public radio's lgbt q youth program we don't have to be cleared to be here on an exhibition about casting we continue our discussion with chris mosher in this four part series as he talks about how being an athlete i've seen affected his transition and about his experience with trans phobia and being misidentified after being outed this program has been produced by the outcast and team including youth participants call us michael caine josh david

travis andrew michael jamie karen jo sydney and me and say our executive producers marc sofas if you're having trouble whether its at home or school or just with yourself call the trevor project hotline at eight six six for eight eight seven three eight six or visit them online at the trevor projects dot org the trevor project is an organization dedicated to lgbt q youth suicide prevention call them if you have a problem seriously don't be scared even have an online chat you can use it if you don't want to talk about again that number is eight six six forty eight seven three eight six being different isn't a reason to hate or hurt yourself podcasting is a production of media for the public that a listener supported independent producer based in new york more

information about podcasting is available and abkhazia media dot org to find information about the show with some links for all the testing episodes and the podcast wire now testing is also on social media to connect with us on twitter tumblr facebook youtube and instagram that's about casting media and saying this was a joyous again next time for part two