New Mexico in Focus; 1502; Peaceful Protest Power, Colonial History, Roberto Rosales on Photos, Carson National Forest

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO MCCUNE CHARITABLE AND THE NEEPER NATURAL HISTORY AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU. >> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW 'OUR LAND' EXPLORES A FOREST IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO. >> David: WE'RE A THE GROUP IS MORE >> Gene: AND, THE POWER COMPLETE STORY OF THE STRUGGLE NEW MEXICO InFOCUS >> Gene: THANKS FOR I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT. WE'VE GOT A WIDE RANGE OF WE ALL WRAP UP WHAT WAS NOW, IT WAS A YEAR AGO NEW MEXICO ERUPTED IN LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT

WE'LL TALK WITH AN EXPERT PEACEFUL PROTESTS IS WE'LL ALSO LOOK AT HOW A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR SAYS HER IN HER ACADEMIC WORK, WHICH IS NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY OF BUT UP FIRST, THE POWER OF ROBERTO ROSALES WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL. HIS WORK SPANS EVERYTHING FROM AND FOR DECADES, IT HAS TO SHINE A LIGHT ON PEOPLE CROSSING SEEKING SAFETY AND CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS WHY HIS IMAGES CAN HELP US ALL >> Laura: ROBERTO, WELCOME THANKS FOR JOINING ME. >> Roberto: THANK >> Laura: SO YOU COVER ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL; HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN >> Roberto: I'VE BEEN ABOUT 20 YEARS, TWO

>> Laura: AND WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN >> Roberto: I THINK, YOU IN THE FIRST TEN YEARS THAT REALLY HARD TO GET SOMEBODY TO IT WAS REALLY HARD TO FIND YOU HAD TO FIND VERY STRATEGIC ESPECIALLY BUT TODAY WITH THE ASYLUM IT'S EVERYWHERE. YOU SEE THEM EVERYWHERE. THEIR ATTITUDES, OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE IS JUST WHEREAS BEFORE YOU ALSO IMMIGRANTS COMING, AND THEY'RE MAINLY JUST FROM AND NORTHERN

SO BIG SHIFT THERE. >> Laura: CAN YOU TALK A KIND OF WHY THOSE CHANGES CHANGES WHAT'S HAPPENING >> Roberto: SO THE CENTRAL THEY ARE REALLY STARTING OF ALL THE VIOLENCE THAT'S AND I THINK REASON FOR THEM HERE'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE. FAMILY FROM HONDURAS, CENTRAL AMERICA, THIS THEY DON'T HAVE AN HOPEFULLY THINGS GET THEY EITHER HAVE TO LEAVE OR CRIME

SO IT'S KIND OF HARD. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SEEING THAT'S THE BIGGEST CHANGE. EVERYONE THAT'S COMING BECAUSE THEY'RE RUNNING YES, THEY OBVIOUSLY WANT BUT THE DIFFERENCE NOW IS IT'S NOT THAT THEY'RE DREAM OR A BETTER WAY REASON IS SURVIVAL, AND FROM NOW SINCE WHEN EVERYONE I SPOKE TO IN THE COVERING THE BORDER, IT HAVE FAMILY IN THE STATES, THERE, I'M JUST TRYING AND TODAY, THERE'S NOW IT'S, I JUST BIG DIFFERENCE. >> Laura: THERE'S A LOT OF UNITED STATES AND THIS CRISIS, BUT WHAT YOU'RE

LIKE A HUMANITARIAN >> Roberto: IT IS A I MEAN, NOT ONLY ARE AWAY, BUT ALSO ONE OF THE INFLUENCING THIS CRIME THE CARTELS THEY'RE STARTING TO BRANCH SO NOW YOU'RE FIGHTING FIGHTING THE CARTELS. AND THEN, OF COURSE, IF THE CARTELS ARE BEING, I THEY'RE BEING GIVEN ARMS COMING FROM THE AND AS THEY'RE TRYING TO THEY'RE BRANCHING OUT HONDURAS, THAT IS JUST A DOUBLE BUT RECENTLY I WAS IN SHELTER AND I NOTICED

HAPPENING RECENTLY, AND PEOPLE CAN NO LONGER FARM. I MET A GENTLEMAN FROM THERE WAS A NATURAL BUT ALSO IN TALKING TO THEY DON'T GET THE RAINS THEY CAN'T HARVEST COFFEE. SO WHEN YOU COMBINE THAT YOU ONLY HAVE ONE CHOICE. YOU GOT TO COME UP NORTH. AND AGAIN, THAT'S >> Laura: SO ONE OF THE I ALWAYS WONDER ABOUT IS FOR THEIR LIVES, AFRAID OF HOW DO YOU TAKE THESE IMAGES? HOW DO YOU MEET PEOPLE >> Roberto: YOU KNOW, I HAVE I GUESS. I'M AN IMMIGRANT MYSELF

WHAT THEY'RE AND I GIVE THEM SPACE, I YOU KNOW, THREATENED I TAKE THE TIME AND A LOT OF THE TIMES, IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO TO THEM IT'S LIKE A BIG AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO HUMANIZING WAY, ALSO, AND BUT, YEAH, FOR SOME REASON I AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M AN IMMIGRANT, MYSELF. SO I THINK THAT ALSO I DON'T JUST POINT CAMERAS IT'S A VERY METICULOUS BUT IT CAN BE AND AGAIN, WE'RE

>> Laura: SO THE BORDER IS NEW MEXICO, BUT FOR THOSE IN ALBUQUERQUE, IT CAN SOMETIMES >> Roberto: YES. >> Laura: WHAT DO YOU WISH BETTER UNDERSTOOD ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING >> Roberto: YOU KNOW, I BORDER AS THE OCEAN. LIKE, HIGH TIDE, LOW TIDE. THE BORDER IS LIKE THE GOING BACK AT LOW TIDE. BUT ALSO, IT'S A WONDERFUL TO BE MARRED BY VIOLENCE AND THESE ARE TWO NATIONS THAT AND IT IS NOT -- WE LOOK BLACK-AND-WHITE THEY THINK THAT JUST OTHER SIDE, YOU WANT TO

AND THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. GIVEN A CHOICE, MOST YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT I THINK, SEPARATED FROM AND PEOPLE I THINK TEND TO NOBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE SURVIVAL IS ONE THING, BUT BETTER LIFE, AND THE IT SHOULD NOT REPRESENT SEPARATION OF FAMILIES. IT'S A LOT MORE BUT IT'S A STRANGE PART OF PEOPLE DON'T REALLY JUST BECAUSE YOU LIVE ON THE YOU SHOULDN'T AND I DON'T HAVE TO WE CAN JOIN HANDS, JOIN IDEAS, SHARE ALL THESE

IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE. BUT IT'S ALSO A IT IS AN AMAZING AREA AND THEN LIKE IN THIS FROM MEXICO WHO ARE TRYING AND WHO ARE LEAVING THEIR IN A BORDER TOWN ACROSS THIS IS IN A TOWN CALLED ABOUT 15 MILES WEST OF THIS IS A DAY WHEN THEY'RE AND EVERY TIME I SPOKE TO WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THEIR EVERYONE HAS PHOTOS AND, YOU KNOW, THE BORDER WHERE STORIES ARE BEING TOLD BY >> Laura: SO WHEN THINGS LIKE, DON'T COME

-- LIKE FOR ME, I WOULDN'T WANT >> Roberto: RIGHT. I THINK IT'S EASY TO SAY THE U.S., BUT UNLESS WE ROOT ISSUES OF WHY PEOPLE THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE. AND UNLESS WE HELP THESE ACTIVITY AND NARCO ACTIVITY, IT HAS NO END IN SIGHT. AND, IN FACT, NOW THAT I THINK IT'S SO I FEAR FOR WHAT'S BUT WITH THE INCREASE OF I THINK WE'RE STILL PAINTING AND I I JUST WANTED TO MENTION

THIS IS WHAT THE LIKE BACK AROUND 2005. THIS IS WHERE THE IT WAS NEAR JOHNSON BUT BACK IN THOSE DAYS, LOOKED LIKE, AND THESE IT TO GET DARKER SO AND NONE OF THEM WANT TO THEY HAVE FAMILIES IN ALL THESE OTHER PLACES. >> Laura: WE WERE DOWN AT THE A-YEAR-AND-A-HALF AGO, AND NOW THE WALL IS 30 FEET HOW HAS THAT CHANGED >> Roberto: WELL, IT IS THIS AREA, SO WHAT IT'S BOOT HEEL OF NEW MEXICO, OF OUR STATE, IT'S PUSHING

CHIRICAHUA MOUNTAINS ALONG BORDER AND THAT AND THERE ARE ALSO AREAS PELONCILLO MOUNTAINS, THAT CONSTRAINTS YOU COULDN'T BUT IT'S FORCING ALL THESE DANGEROUS TREK, BUT ALSO, NOW YOU'RE WANT TO COME FOR A BETTER AND YOU'RE GROUPING THEM BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE CARTELS, THE PELONCILLO CHIRICAHUA MOUNTAINS. BUT ALSO, NATURE, HABITATS, SPECIES ARE NOT BEING ABLE SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT AND I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER THING

>> Laura: SO HOW IS NEW WITH MEXICO A LITTLE BIT POLICIES OR HOW MIGRANTS TEXAS OR ARIZONA ARE WE DIFFERENT? >> Roberto: I MEAN, I THE SENSE THAT WE DON'T PEOPLE HAVE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CROSS INTO NEW BY RANCHERS WHO ARE SO THERE IS YOU HAVE BOUNDARIES BY THE ARE AGAINST IMMIGRATION, YOU CAN'T HIDE. YOU DON'T HAVE AN URBAN LIKE YOU WOULD IN MAYBE SOMEWHERE IN NOGALES, SO YOU'RE KIND OF A SITTING

AND I THINK A LOT OF PROMISE THAT THEY ARE ACROSS TEXAS OR ARIZONA, IMMIGRANTS COULDN'T TELL BECAUSE IT'S EASIER FOR IN NEW MEXICO, THIS IS AND MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE ARE CAUGHT, WHEREAS YOU SO IT'S A LOT THE NUMBERS SHOW IT, ALSO. TEXAS IS WAY AHEAD, >> Laura: SO 20 YEARS OF BORDER, MEETING COUNTLESS WHAT DO YOU WISH THAT NEW ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THAT FAMILIES FACE EVERY DAY? >> Roberto: SO, YOU KNOW,

THE YOUTH WHO COME WITH OF TIMES THE ONE THING IS THAT, ESPECIALLY CHILDHOOD IS YOU HAVE NO ROOTS THAT YOU AND A LOT OF THEIR AND I WISH SOME PEOPLE PEOPLE WHO COULD NO MOTHER, NO PARENT SEPARATED FROM THEIR KIDS. BUT IT IS SUCH A TAKE A LOOK AT THE THE FOLKS THAT I TALKED TO FROM EL PASO, FOR THEM, A YEAR-AND-A-HALF JUST BORDER, AND THEY GET

SO HOW DO YOU IT'S JUST AN INCREDIBLE AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IF TAKE THAT CHANCE. BUT I SEE A LOT OF WOMEN ACROSS, BUT WHEN THEY SEE CHANCE, THEY'RE WILLING THEM IT MEANS GOING BACK, AND MAYBE FIND >> Laura: ROBERTO, THANK THAT YOU DO AND THE FOR BEING HERE >> Roberto: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. AND THANK YOU FOR TALKING SO IMPORTANT >> Gene: WE ALSO RECENTLY ABOUT THE FINE ART OF PHOTO FORMER PHOTO EDITOR AT THE HE RECENTLY RETIRED AFTER

THAT SPANNED MORE THAN THREE THERE WAS NO WAY WE COULD AND REFLECTIONS INTO ONE HE STUCK AROUND IN STUDIO TO SHARE SOME EXTRA STORIES AND >> Matt: DEAN HANSON, OF THE ALBUQUERQUE THANKS FOR SPENDING SOME AS WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT, OF TIME TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS IT ABOUT SHOOTING EVERY >> Dean: WELL, THERE'S A AND THERE IS A WHOLE LOT THERE IS UGLY UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE NEWS YOU THE UGLY. I NEED TO REMIND PEOPLE GOOD OUT THERE. THE THINGS THAT WE AREN'T

TRAGEDY ARE NORMAL PEOPLE NORMAL LIVES, AND I >> Matt: SURE, AND A THESE ARE NOT JUST PHOTOS COLLECTION, THESE ARE SO THERE'S CLEARLY >> Dean: WELL, AND WE'RE NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE IN LIKE THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL. IT DOESN'T BELONG IT ISN'T OWNED ALL THE DECISIONS MADE FOR THAT BUILDING THAT'S WHY WE'RE ONLY WE'RE NOT ACCOUNTABLE THIS IS WHY WE GET TO DO THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT AND I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR THIS KIND OF

>> Matt: ABSOLUTELY, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE ALL COVID-19 VACCINE, BUT THIS THAT FOR KIDS THIS UNFORTUNATELY. >> Dean: YES, AND THIS WAS IT WAS PUT ON BY THE BUT I MEAN, HERE YOU JUST WHEN KIDS THIS AGE ARE SHOT UP THEIR NOSE, I >> Matt: THAT'S TERRIFIC. I LOVE THAT ONE. THIS IS ONE THAT YOU THERE ARE A LOT OF >> Dean: YES. ONE OF THESE WOMEN IS A AND THE OTHER IS HER AND I'M NOT GOING TO THEY'RE JUST SO FULL OF ONE OF THEM HAS THIS MURAL, I IN THE BACKYARD AND YOU MEET PEOPLE LIKE THIS AND IT

IT FILLS YOUR TANK. IT REPLACES EVERYTHING THE NEGATIVE. >> Matt: SURE, ABSOLUTELY. I CAN CERTAINLY SEE THAT. AND THEN WE HAVE SO THIS IS ONE, AS WE THERE'S HUMOR >> Dean: THERE REALLY IS. THIS IS DR. PATRICIA THE OFFICE OF THE AND I HAD PHOTOGRAPHED HER ON DUMMY SKELETON NUMEROUS TIMES BUT THAT'S HOMICIDE TRIALS BUT WHEN YOU SEE HER SITTING IN YOU'RE FINDING SOME >> Matt: SURE. IT'S THAT HUMAN SIDE OF PEOPLE

THIS ONE IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE RIGHT? >> Dean: RIGHT. THIS IS DOWN IN LOS LUNAS POLICE OFFICER AND THESE ARE HIS FELLOW RIO I WAS SITTING ON THE BENCH AT THE DEFENDANT, AND THEN ALL COUNTS, I SWUNG AROUND WITH A WIDE ANGLE LENS, BE A REACTION BEHIND ME. >> Matt: SURE. BOY, THAT IS TOUGH, >> Dean: YES. >> Matt: MAN, THAT THIS ONE, BOY, THIS IS -- >> Dean: I'M STILL NOT

SURE HOW THIS IT WAS A VIDEO YOU CAN JUST SEE HIM ON THE TV, AND THIS IS THE FOR SOME REASON, SHE CAME OVER THESE ARE REALLY TOUGH SIDE OF THE COURTROOM FRIENDS OF THE VICTIM, AND COURTROOM YOU HAVE THE THE DEFENDANT, AND THERE'S AND SECURITY DOES A REALLY THE EMOTIONS JUST GET >> Matt: SURE, ABSOLUTELY. THIS ONE WE TALKED ABOUT MENTIONING AGAIN JUST FOR HOW MUCH ATTENTION YOU PROBABLY ALWAYS THAT ONE AND THAT ONE CRIME, AND

AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. >> Dean: IT DOES. AND I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS FROM OTHERS' MISFORTUNES. BUT I MEAN, 30, 35 YEARS, YOU HEAR THE HUNT AND YOU MONTHS LATER THE TRIALS >> Matt: THERE'S >> Dean: ABSOLUTELY. >> Matt: SO HERE, YOU'VE ANIMAL PICTURES THIS ONE I LOVE. >> Dean: WELL, THIS WAS A THE LADD WILDLIFE PRESERVE WELL, THIS IS IT'S OVERCAST AND GRAY. BECAUSE USUALLY WHEN BIRDS AND WILDLIFE, YOU WANT WELL, THIS WAY IT

SOMEHOW THE LIGHT LIT THEM FROM ALL SIDES, WHICH YOU NORMALLY SO I'M PLEASED WITH THAT. IT WAS HARD TO TELL THAT OKAY, YOU'LL HAVE TO DO. >> Matt: THAT'S THIS ONE, I KNOW A LOT OF CLINES CORNERS, BUT >> Dean: YES. FOR SOME REASON WE HAD AT CLINES CORNERS, AND AS I SAW ALL THESE -- I GUESS YOU WOULDN'T SEE RAVENS BUT FOR SOME REASON, THEY AND THEY SPACED THEMSELVES >> Matt: THAT'S TERRIFIC. THE BIOPARK ASSIGNMENT, >> Dean: YES, WHEN THE TASMANIAN THEY'RE LOVELY

QUITE AS IN FOCUS AS I'D WHEN THEY GET ANGRY, THEIR EARS AND I MEAN, HOW CAN YOU >> Matt: IT'S FANTASTIC. SO, SO GOOD. THIS ONE IS GREAT. THIS I THOUGHT WAS >> Dean: YES. NO, THIS WAS JUST AN I HAD NEVER DONE THIS I DID IT IN TOTAL AND THEN I USED A SMALL PEN ANYTHING LIT WAS WHAT'S DARK DIDN'T BUT IT WAS A REALLY FUN SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT. IT GIVES KIND OF A >> Matt: ABSOLUTELY. SO DID THIS RUN IN AN >> Dean: YES, IT WENT WITH

SPRING HOME AND I THINK I DID FOUR BUT I LIKE >> Matt: YES, THAT'S OUR LAST LITTLE BIT THAT OBVIOUSLY IS FIRE, WHICH OF LIFE I WOULD IMAGINE HERE IN THIS IS LAS CONCHAS. >> Dean: RIGHT, AND THE CANYON FROM VALLES KEEPING AN EYE ON IT TO THROUGH LOS ALAMOS AGAIN? AND THANKFULLY, IT DIDN'T. BUT THE INTERESTING -- YOU ADEQUATE PICTURE OF THE LOOKED AND I SAW ANOTHER HIS KNEE POINTED AND I JUST CAN'T GET OVER I KNOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED

THIS TO ME LOOKS LIKE THINGS AREN'T FLARING, THE THINK IT'LL COME BACK EVEN BUT I JUST LOVED HOW THE TOGETHER IN THAT PICTURE. >> Matt: SURE. YOU WERE TELLING ME THAT MAKE THE NEWS, WHETHER THAT'S ARE THE >> Dean: RIGHT. >> Matt: BUT AFTER THE SOMETHING THERE TO >> Dean: THERE REALLY IS. AND IT'S JUST THE ETHEREAL THE HAZE AND THE LAYERS YOU HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE >> Matt: SURE. WELL, THE LAST THING I IDEA OF BEING PHOTO YOUR LAST YEARS DURING THE PANDEMIC, HOW

YOU OPERATED, YOUR CONCERN THAT SORT OF THING? >> Dean: THAT WAS A BIG BASICALLY OUT OF NOWHERE. I MEAN, WE'RE SHOOTING BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT, AND THEY'RE PLAYING IT I THINK AT TRANSITION WE IT WENT COMPLETELY AWAY, BECAME, HOW FAR IS WHAT ARE WE GOING MY BIGGEST CONCERN WAS THEY HAD TO BE OUT IN IT, SO WE KIND OF DEVELOPED WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT. I SWITCHED SCHEDULES SO DIFFERENT TIMES AND GO OUT THERE WOULD NEVER BE THREE OF US THEY TOOK VEHICLES HOME.

EVERYWHERE THEY WENT, WE I WOULD SAY TO THEM, YOU GOING TO HAVE YOU DO, POSSIBILITY, ARE YOU I TOLD EVERYBODY, IF IN LEAST OR ANY AMOUNT IN AND WE HAD ROBERTO ROSALES WENT EDDIE MOORE WORKED WITHIN THE AND WE PRODUCED SOME PRETTY FOR A STAFF OUR SIZE. I'M VERY PROUD OF NOW WE'RE FULLY IMMUNIZED THROUGH A GATEWAY AND SO NOW WE CAN SEE LIFE WE'LL SEE WHAT COMES NEXT.

IT'S GOING TO >> Matt: ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE YOU HAVE SOME IDEAS FOR >> Dean: WELL, YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST, THE PHOTO WE WERE ON KIND OF AND WITH MY LEAVING, PHOTO DEPARTMENT INTO THE WILL BE BETTER USE AND WE HAVE SUCH A TO REMEMBER THAT THAT ARE PAYING TO PRODUCE THE FACEBOOK HAS MADE A FORTUNE MUCH TO THE DETRIMENT OF

SO IT'S REALLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE ABQJOURNAL.COM. YOU'LL SEE OUR A LOT OF WORK THAT DOESN'T IN THE FORM OF GALLERIES YOU'VE ALWAYS LIKED THERE'S A LOT OF IT, >> Matt: DEAN, WE'LL LEAVE MUCH FOR SPENDING WE APPRECIATE IT. >> Dean: THANK YOU SO >> Gene: IT'S TIME NOW TO WE BRING YOU ANOTHER WINNING SERIES 'OUR LAND: PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.' NOW FIND ALL THE 'OUR TOP STREAMING SERVICES LIKE THIS MONTH, CORRESPONDENT THE CARSON NATIONAL FOREST

LEARN ABOUT A CREATIVE AND HANDLING FOREST >> Laura: I'M AND FOR THIS MONTH'S VISITED THE CARSON ABOUT A DIFFERENT TYPE OF BASED ON THE IT'S BASED ON TRADITION THE FOREST AND THE COMMUNITIES ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Laura: A FEW J.R. LOGAN LOOKED OUT ACROSS SAN CRISTOBAL IN IT WAS GETTING ON TOWARD WHO RELY ON WOOD TO HEAT OTHER PARTS OF THE FOREST. THEN THEY PAY FOR U.S. FOREST (ROAR OF CHAINSAW) >> J.R.: AND IT JUST MADE

MY VALLEY THAT I WOULD FIREWOOD WHEN LOOKING DOOR THERE'S A BEAUTIFUL THE UNDERGROWTH HAS GROWN TO THOSE TREES AND TO MY AND I THOUGHT THERE JUST CAN, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT IT POSSIBLE FOR ME AND MY CUT THAT WOOD WHICH IS AS FIREWOOD AND IS IN OUR SAME TIME MAKE OUR COMMUNITY >> Laura: LOGAN MET WITH ELDERS >> David: TRADITIONALLY, CULTURE WHERE THE GROUP IS MORE >> Laura: THEY GOT TO CREATE A FOREST COUNCIL COMMUNITY THEY TALKED ABOUT THE LONG HISTORY OF

NORTHERN NEW MEXICO. >> David: THE GOVERNANCE, SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE, INSTITUTIONAL FORMS OF HAD HERE FOR CENTURIES, THE DISTRIBUTION OF WATER AND VERY SUCCESSFUL THE LAND GRANTS ALSO HAVE HAD A VERY DEMOCRATIC, VERY >> Art: PARCIENTE A PARCIENTE, WHEN IT COMES WHO HAS A PIECE OF LAND SO THEY NEEDED A >> Laura: THEY WORKED FOREST, WROTE A GRANT ACEQUIAS AND LAND GRANTS, THE CERRO NEGRO FOREST COUNCIL. HERE, THERE ARE ALMOST 300

AND SAGE FOREST LANDS SAN CRISTOBOL AND VALDEZ THINNED SO THAT THE FOREST CLOSER TO HOW IT U.S. GOVERNMENT IMPLEMENTED >> J.R.: OUR PROJECT IN REMOVE FUELS THAT RAMP UP AND SUPERCHARGE SEE A FIRE OCCUR >> Laura: WHEN THE U.S. THEY BECAME OVERCROWDED WITH WATER AND SUNLIGHT AND BECOMING FEEDING THEM ALONG WITH DROUGHT TO BURN HOTTER >> J.R.: THIS ISN'T A YOU MIGHT SEE IN PONDEROSA RESTORING AN ECOSYSTEM TO A RATHER, THIS IS

BENEFIT OF PEOPLE, BUT ENVIRONMENT IN THE SENSE WOULD OTHERWISE BE AN ESPECIALLY AS WE SEE, YOU WARMER, HOTTER AND DRIER >> Laura: THE FOREST DIVIDED THE FOREST HERE ASSIGNED THEM TO LEÑEROS, TREES TO REMAIN ARE MARKED, A MAYORDOMO OVERSEES THE THE WOOD AT HOME OR SELL THEM $300 AN ACRE THATS LESS THAN WHAT THE FOREST AND ALTHOUGH THE WORK CAN ITS A MODEL FOR OTHER ALREADY COUNCILS HAVE POPPED >> Richard: MY ROLE IN LEÑERO, THE GUY THAT CUTS HOME, CHOPS IT UP, AND

IT'S MY SOURCE OF ENERGY BUT, YEAH, I'VE BEEN ON ACCOMPLISHED THREE CURRENTLY WORKING JUST FOURTH, AND I'VE GOT YET ASSIGNED THAT I'VE GOT TO GET THAT DONE BEFORE >> Richard: HAVING TO OPPOSED TO TWO HOURS TO BEST WOOD THAT I CAN SAY THIS IS AWESOME. I'M REALLY GLAD THIS KIND OF WORRIED ABOUT FINDING >> Laura: FOR LOGAN AND THEIR TIME IN THE FOREST IT'S ABOUT AND SPENDING >> Richard: SOMETIMES I JUST SIT AROUND. I WORK REALLY SLOW. AND I'M ALWAYS LOOKING NOW THAT IT'S SO OPEN,

UP, YOU CAN REALLY SEE DEER THAN WHAT WE >> Laura: HISTORICALLY THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN THE FEDERAL AGENCY TOOK WAS FORMED IN THE EARLY PEOPLE OFF THEIR GRAZING REQUIRING PERMITS FOR GATHERING, CLOSING ACCESS VISITED FOR GENERATIONS. THIS COUNCIL IS A STEP THE LAND, BUT COMMUNITIES. >> Art: I THINK THIS REALLY NICE IN THIS WITH THE FOREST SERVICE. THE FOREST SERVICE IS COOPERATING WITH THEM, AND IN SOME CASES, NOT IN ALL COMES OUT, YOU KNOW, A MOM

OR THREE KIDS WITH THEM, AND THEN, OF COURSE, THEY FOR THEIR LITTLE LUNCH OR WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AMAZING. IT'S LIKE NICE. >> Laura: BEING A LEÑERO BUT THERES AN ART TO IT, TOO. AND JOY AT BEING >> Richard: WELL, THIS, IN A SENSE, RANCHO DE LEÑA DE PIÑON. SO WHY DONT WE SAY: (SINGING IN SPANISH) ALLÁ EN EL RANCHO GRANDE, HABÍA UNA RANCHERITA, QUE ALEGRE ME DECÍA. THERE YOU GO. FROM THERE ON, IT [LAUGHING] >> Laura: FOR 'OUR LAND' I'M LAURA PASKUS. >> Gene: THE IMPACT OF ELECTION CONTINUES TO AS SOME STATE

U.S. CONGRESS CONTINUE TO INTEGRITY ISSUES, WE INTERVIEW WE DID WITH A SANTA FE RESIDENT AND SENIOR AT THE CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT HER RESEARCH FOCUSES SURROUNDING ELECTIONS, BUT TIME WITH CORRESPONDENT DISCUSS THE BLACK LIVES HOW IT PLAYED INTO WHAT HAPPENED AND THE CONTINUING POWER >> Russell: RACHEL, THANK YOU WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT. YOU'VE TALKED AND WRITTEN THAT IT CAN DRIVERS OF SOCIAL CHANGE AND IT APPEALS HOW DOES THE BLACK LIVES AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE JACOB BLAKE SEEM TO >> Dr. Kleinfeld: SO THE TRAGIC SO MANY OTHER AFRICAN-AMERICANS IF THERE'S BEEN ANY

FINALLY HELPED MANY OTHER INCREDIBLY UNEQUAL JUSTICE METED OUT FOR A LONG TIME. AND THAT IS GOOD, BECAUSE IS THAT WHEN YOU REALLY HAVE YOU DO TWO YOU HAVE A BROAD THAT'S ABOUT NUMBERS, BUT SO IN OUR COUNTRY, THAT THAT WOULD MEAN NATIVE AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DEMOCRATIC THE REASON THAT THAT KIND THAT IT'S NOT JUST IN HIGHLY POLARIZED WHICH IS WHERE YOU SEE THAT JUSTICE SYSTEM, IN HIGHLY IF YOU HAVE A NARRATIVE THAT THE POLARIZED DIVIDE, DISMISSED BY THE OTHER BREAK THROUGH AND

SO WHAT SOCIAL MOVEMENTS THAT BRIDGE THOSE DIVIDES, BUT IT ALSO AND WHAT WE SAW AFTER FOR THE FIRST TIME A AND THE PROBLEMS IN OUR BREAKING THROUGH TO MANY IT BEFORE, AND THAT'S >> Russell: NOW, I WAS IN RIGHT AFTER THE CITY WAS AND I CAN STILL SMELL AND I KEPT THINKING ABOUT MILAN CZECHOSLOVAKIA DURING THE AND I WAS HIT WITH THIS THIS QUESTION FOR ME, THAT INEVITABLE TO FIGHT IS THAT FAIR? I MEAN, IT'S SOMETHING IS VIOLENCE SOMETIMES THE INEQUALITY, TO

OR IS THAT JUST A CYNICAL MARXISM AND CAPITALISM >> Dr. Kleinfeld: WELL. WHAT THE RESEARCH SHOWS, ERICA CHENOWETH AND MARIA THE MOST ABLE RESEARCHERS AND HAS GONE ON TO DO JUST THIS -- IS THAT VIOLENT MORE OVEN THAN NONVIOLENT CATEGORIZED THIS ACROSS NUMBERS, AND SHE'S ALSO THE CASE STUDIES AND WHAT SHE'S FOUND IS FAILS SYSTEMICALLY, IT'S AND THE REASON BECOME MORE VIOLENT, YOU I WAS TALKING SO, YOU KNOW, I'M A MOTHER I BELIEVE STRONGLY IN A LOT OF BUT I ALSO WANT TO SO IF A PROTEST BECOMES I'M NOT GOING TO GO OUT TO IT

AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS AS VIOLENCE STARTS HAPPENING, IS A SHRINKING OF THE THAT SHRINKING ALLOWS THE THE PEOPLE IN POWER TO CREATE COUNTER-NARRATIVES ARREST MORE OF THEM, TO BECAUSE THERE'S FEWER OF AND TO CREATE WEDGE STRATEGIES SO WHEN YOU CREATE VIOLENCE AS YOU LOSE A LOT OF BUT THE ACTUAL PEOPLE WHO ARE AND THAT IS AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE WHO FEEL SO STRONGLY ABOUT THINK, WELL, I'LL JUST VIOLENCE, BECAUSE EVEN EFFECT OF POLARIZING AND PEOPLE FEEL PROPERTY AGAINST THEMSELVES,

SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, MESSAGE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO ANGRY TO BE TOLD THAT THEY'RE IT'S HARD FOR SOME PEOPLE, BUT IT'S WHAT ALL THE >> Russell: ARE YOU THAT WE WON'T BE AS TENSE >> Dr. Kleinfeld: YOU LOT TO HAVE A MORE BUT I WOULD SAY I'M CAUTIOUS IN MY OWN RESEARCH IN HAD A LEADER LIKE TRUMP, PARLANCE WE WOULD CALL AN A POPULIST BECAUSE TO THE PEOPLE AGAINST BASICALLY SAYING, YOU DON'T NEED COME STRAIGHT TO ME, I CAN THE INSTITUTIONS AND AN AUTHORITARIAN BECAUSE POWER IN HIMSELF, AS WELL.

AND SO THAT KIND OF OF POWER MESSAGE PUTS WHEN YOU SEE OTHER OTHER COUNTRIES, WHAT YOU -- THAT'S WHAT YASCHA SHOWS, THEY OFTEN IN THE CASES WHERE THEY YOU OFTEN GET A THAT CENTRIST IS NOT VERY THE SIDE THAT WAS ON THE POPULIST IS KEPT GOING BY THE PEOPLE, WHETHER WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A BERLUSCONI IN ITALY, THAT AND RILES UP THE BASE, AND THE ELECTED LEADER THEY'RE NOT GETTING WHAT THEY WHICH WAS A FIRE AND BRIMSTONE YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO BRING AND INSTEAD MODERATION OFTEN BECAUSE OF WHAT WHICH IS A SPLIT TWO DIFFERENT

AND SO THEY END AND THEN WHAT YOU TEND TO FORTH BETWEEN DIFFERENT SO VERY RIGHT, VERY LEFT. VERY RIGHT, VERY LEFT. ITALY PERFECTED THIS BY RIGHT AND THE VERY LEFT AT AND THEY GOT SORT OF A SINGLE TOGETHER THEIR NATIVIST FAR LEFT PARTY IN THE SAME IN TYPICAL ITALIAN SO HOPEFULLY WE WILL GET SUGGESTS THAT IS NOT THERE'S CHANGES THAT WE NEED I REALLY THINK THAT THE SANTA FE HAS PASSED AND COUNTIES IN NEW MEXICO ARE KEY, BECAUSE IT'S A YOU DON'T VOTE SOLELY FOR YOU GET TO PICK YOUR FLAVOR AND THAT RESPONSIVENESS TO AN

OF STRUCTURAL CHANGE, IF AND MOVES UP, CAN HELP THE HARDEST CORE, YOU AND MOVE THEM TO SOMETHING >> Russell: RACHEL, THANK >> Rachel: THANK >> Gene: THE BLACK LIVES YEAR AGO ALSO BROUGHT TO COMPLICATED HISTORY OF SOMETHING THAT WAS TOP OF MIND WEEK AS WE CELEBRATED THE NOW, BACK IN OCTOBER OF LAST STATUES THAT HONOR THE LEGACY OF ONE OF OUR GUESTS WAS PROFESSOR AT ARIZONA PART OF HER CONVERSATION CONTRERAS HAD TO DO WITH GROWING UP IN RURAL NEW IMPACTED HER WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME FOR IT IN YOU THOSE THOUGHTS THIS WEEK AS >> Russell: THANK YOU DR.

YOU GREW UP IN GRANTS, NEW WHAT KIND OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S PAST SCHOLAR IN TERMS OF THIS WAS THIS A CONVERSATION FAMILY, OR WERE YOU >> Dr. Chávez: ACTUALLY, REALLY AWARE OF IT I KNEW THAT OÑATE HAD BEEN I LIVED IN A FORMER I KNEW THAT WHERE I LIVED A DOUBLE-WIDE TRAILER OFF CARROT CAPITAL THEY GREW A LOT OF THE SOIL WAS SO I KNEW ALL THESE SORT OF IN MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY, WE MY GRANDMOTHER LIVED IN AND SO WE OFTEN TOOK SO I THINK FOR A LOT OF

GROWING UP IN A HISPANIC THESE EXPERIENCES RATHER DEEP CONVERSATIONS SO WHEN THEY LIVED IN -- WHEN I WAS IN ELEMENTARY AND IT WASN'T DUAL LANGUAGE IT WAS JUST THERE WAS A CULTURAL SO ONCE A WEEK WE WOULD GO AND WE WOULD SING WE WOULD WRITE IT -- I FROM 3rd GRADE THAT SAYS, AND IT'S SORT OF LIKE A LIKE, SUBSTANDARD AND I'M LIKE, UNA MES WE CAUGHT UMPAS, YOU KNOW. SO IT WAS AN ATTEMPT FOR CULTURAL HERITAGE, BUT IN AND MY TEACHER IN 3rd MR. VALDEZ, HE WAS FROM HIM BEING IN CLASS WITH AND SO WE WERE ALWAYS VERY

BUT I DON'T REMEMBER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT, TO UNM WHERE, LIKE I SAID, VISCERAL RESPONSES TO WHAT I THINK THAT SORT OF SCHOLARLY TRAJECTORY >> Russell: NOW, WE WERE IN THE STREETS IN FE AROUND THESE MONUMENTS, ACADEMY WITH YOUR WORK YOUR CURRENT BOOK, ARE IS THE ACADEMY HAVING THE AMONGST THEMSELVES, OR DIRECTION THAT THE AROUND THIS DEBATE IN NEW MEXICO >> Vanessa: THERE'S A LOT DOING THIS GREAT WORK. MICHAEL TRUJILLO, YOLANDA THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHWEST SORT OF COLONIAL ONE OF THE CONVERSATIONS YESTERDAY WHICH I THOUGHT

THAT THIS IS THE WORK THAT THIS IS OUR JOB, THIS OURSELVES TO DO, TO DO RESEARCH THAT HELPS PEOPLE WHAT'S GOING ON. NOW, WE'RE NOT COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS BUT THERE ARE ALSO WHO DO SCHOLARSHIP AND WORK TOGETHER IN DIFFERENT TO A BETTER UNDERSTANDING IT'S DIFFICULT, LIKE I IN NEW MEXICO AND VIEWING WHO IS INTERESTED IN ORAL THE SORT OF FIELD WORK UNDERSTAND IN THE CONTEXT, TO READ WHAT'S BEEN WHAT FRIENDS HAVE SHARED SHARE WITH YOU AND ASK YOU SO YOU DO HAVE SOME KIND OUTSIDE OF NEW MEXICO, BUT A COMMUNITY ACTIVIST. BUT I HAVE TO TELL MYSELF YOU'RE NOT A COMMUNITY YOU'RE A PROFESSOR THAT WORKS IN

HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF >> Russell: THANK YOU, DR. WE APPRECIATE IT. >> Vanessa: THANKS, RUSS. >> Gene: THE CONVERSATION ON ALL OF OUR NEW MEXICO WE INVITE YOU TO JOIN US MOST ACTIVE ONLINE: FACEBOOK, NOW, WERE ALWAYS BRINGING MUCH LIKE WHAT YOU AND WE ALSO LOVE TO HEAR YOUR SHOULD BE COVERING OR PEOPLE WE WE VALUE AND APPRECIATE ALL BOTH THE GOOD THE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS. THEY ALL HELP US MAKE A THANKS AGAIN FOR AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN IN FOCUS. >> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO

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