¡Colores!; Interview with Max Evans Part 1

But we couldn't find a place, as soon as we wanted a little space around it, and I saw it in a little land eater friend of mine downtown. He had an office there in the Sims building. He says, you guys find the places we told him no, we just can't find anything, we made us stay in town. He said, look at one more place where you go back to town. That was it? Yeah, he said, I looked at this place the other day from my mother, but it was too big for her, just her alone, and say, go look at it. So we drove around, found it, found it. We just let her keep country kids from south, you know. And we walked up on the porch, and I looked over at Pat and I said, this is it, we didn't even have to go anywhere. You said that feeling? Yeah, that's great. All right, I think they want me to go. Oh. All right. Okay. Whoops. Okay. Okay.

This is my slate. Okay. Okay. Okay. Max Evans, thank you for joining us on Cholores. I'm very happy to be here. As an author, you've had, you've been, I'm sorry, let me start that again, Tara. I made it. Okay. I'm joking. Okay. As an author, you've inspired a few films with your novels. What's the key to a good story? Thinker to a good story? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Oh, just as much as it wants me to start over. Yep. You don't need me to slate, or, oh. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Max Evans, thank you for being. Okay. All right. Okay. You know what this is like from filmmaking. Okay.

Max Evans, thank you for being here on Cholores. I'm glad to be anywhere. As an author, you've inspired a few films. What makes a good story? Well, sort of the truth, you know, and embellish it a little, make the reader captivated, passionate. And I think maybe one of the great things is to have your reader wonder what's going to happen next. I think that's the secret you're adding. If you can maintain the attitude in your reader, what in the head is going to happen next? I think that's the key to any good story, which film or the written pages, it doesn't matter. That holds true, I think. Where is the heart of a good story? Is it the plot, the characters, the setting? Well, a plot is a necessary thing, I suppose, but it's the characters. If you like them or hate them, whatever, whichever one the author is, whatever their intentions

are, it's a reader. And if you love them, you're worried about them, you keep them worried, keep your readers worried. So at the end, they'll have a resolution, they'll look forward to a resolution, whether they have one or not. What about the balance between tragedy and comedy? Well, that's something that I strive for without knowing it. I just do. It's automatic with me, because all of life, that I've experienced in war and peace and every way that I've lived, is sort of a balance of tragedy and comedy, I think in most human life. And when it gets out of balance, that makes a great story. But if you could put it in balance in a story, that makes a greater story. So that's something I've tried to do in my writing, balance the tragedy with a good life, smaller chuckle, smile.

What did you ask me that? Okay. What do you really want to express in your stories? Well, I suppose entertaining truths. Like, making truths entertaining. That's bigger than that. It's just like the core of that worry. How do you do that? How do I do it? I don't have a slightest idea. What was it like to see your novels on the big screen? That was a great thrill. I've been in love with movie services about 10 years old. I went to a movie at Hobbes, New Mexico. I'll never forget it. The first movie I was ever in in my life, it cost a dime and had the ceiling painted blue, had old tinfoil, stuck up there for stars, and I just sat there and it all lighted up.

I thought, man, this is really pretty. This is beautiful. And here comes this magic story that was screaming. And I was 10 years old when I fell in love with movies and I've been, I still love them. So what was it like when your stories were actually up there? Yeah, same thrill. Yeah. Yeah, same thrill on the internet. Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of things. The magic thing, you know. I mean, you've got little black chicken tracks for words to create images and color to read your mind and interest. And all of a sudden, you see a pair of head bigger than a side of a barn and beautiful images, coloration, movement, it's a great thrill. I know sometimes writers don't like what happens to their works once they go up on the screen. Did you have that? No, no. I like the films that I was involved with. Yeah, I love them, I just, I thought they were wonderful and I just felt honored and a little bit awestruck that there they were.

What made you the perfect person to be part of Sam Peckinpa's film when you guys met? Oh, I don't know. Sam Peckinpa, when you get around to him, you're talking about a shark and a shark is out of water there. Oh, Peckinpa? Yeah. That's true. Why did you guys click? What was it about your work that made you the perfect person for what Peckinpa wanted to do? Well, he was raised in the mountains as a kid up in northern California and a ranch with his grandfather had a ranch. And so we had that in common, my childhood is working as a cowboy. And so I thought we had that in common. And I think that's one thing that one of the beginning things that made Sam and I have a good long friendship.

It's hard to be friends with Sam Peckinpa. Yeah. Yeah. How did you meet? Well, he called, excuse me, he'd read my book to a high-low country and he called my agent, Aaron Hollywood, and he said, who did this book? You know his guy, you're a client here, and he said, that's not true. He said, I want to meet the S.O.B. that wrote that book. So he said, that's over the 80s, it sent me in a ticket and I'll come out. So I went out and met him at a restaurant and bar combination across the Warner Brothers studio where he was filming something, I don't remember what it was. And we met it in lunch and we were still there at two o'clock in the next morning to head the thrills out of the zone.

So we evidently got along, had something to talk about. I know you both were veterans too, did that play a role? Yeah, we had that in common and we both friends were really Marvin and he wouldn't have anything to do with anybody when the veteran, combat veteran. Sam really wasn't, but he made it like he was. He wasn't China. I think one bullet went to Detroit and he was all right. So only in myself, we really, really, a lot longer on combat. What was it like working with him as a director? Well, he said, he loves actors. He's really kind to actors, he's terrible to writers. And all the other people in the film, he makes it really rough on him. He's picked everything to be absolutely perfect, but with actors, he has his kindness and gentility about him and he's a wonderful director that way. No, he wasn't kind, he was difficult with writers, but somehow you guys managed to get along.

I would just sort of forgot that. Oh, okay. Never really, we forgot it. He's the writer first, you know. He was a writer first. Boy, he's director. What was it about his directing that was really great that you liked? Well, I don't know, it was his ability to communicate in just a few words to his actors. He didn't give great descriptions of how you do the scene. If he had a top experienced actor, he just let him go. He said he printed or not. But if he had somebody just starting, he made me do that, I didn't want to do his film. I don't want to be there to write a book about it. But he just called me into acting. Oh, you weren't the ballad of cable hoax? Yeah. And that's when I got the real experience how he handled actors off of this that way. He's meaner now, but when I'm acting part of it, he's nice, right?

You know, it's, again, shark out of water. You can't describe him any better. So what was it like acting in front of the camera? Oh, I didn't bother him the other day. He didn't bother you? No. No. I always weren't. Why are people so afraid of that? Or so difficult? What is so difficult about standing there and rattling them over a few words? I mean, that's the easiest way to make a living in words. I think all the actors are really privileged. It's going to make a living just standing there, vibing a few lines. It's nothing like chopping wood or breaking horses, you know? Now, you know, Peketball had some story that he had to get you drunk to be on camera, was that true? No, that was just his idea, and I was glad he had it. Oh, okay. He didn't bother me near as much as it did him. There was a story that you got, you broke his arm or something like that, or broke his leg?

Well, that was only Marvin. We were drinking over at the holiday house on Ert Malibu, and I was staying with Sam that we were all drinking until we were here, and we got pretty looped, and we were going out there, cars. Now, these were going his house back down at Malibu there, and we were going up the other end of Sam's. So as we went by that, we walked out, we had to go by that swimming pool there to get to our cars, talking about it. He just showed me in the damn pool, and he knows I can't swim. So on the way down to the bottom of my face, I've got to make one hell of a jump here, and I've got to latch on to the edge of that pool, or I'm a goner, which I did. And he was trying to kick my hand loose, and he got even pulled him back, and he was a little strong guy. Anyway, I was kind of hurtin' in the lungs, I squat a little, breezy little water, and we got down to the house, and started to have another drinkin' and now looked at him

and all this don't know him, and I'm long sorry, I hurtin'. So I just said, Sam, you tried to drown me, didn't you? No, no, I just thought you'd made some remarks, smarter remarks, right? It's hard to see if you could swim if you just faking that or not. Anyway, I said, no, you tried to drown me, so I went over and picked him up. Well, I was a lot younger and stronger, but I wasn't as strong as I thought I was. And my man, you see, I was gonna pick him up here on top of me, and then throw him down on the floor. But I only got him about here, so I had to throw him down like that, and he was laying there in the floor, taking on, and I had broken his leg there, and threw him in the floor, broke his leg. He was hailing, going on, says, God, you're gonna have to broke my leg, call the ambulance and get him in the hospital, I'm gonna have to get a cash, he's just takin' on the floor.

Now, I just walked through, I said, oh, Sam, I'm so sorry, I broke through him patting right on top of the head, and I said, I meant to break your cock-eyed neck, I apologize for obviously breaking his leg. Did you, did you stay friends after that? Pardon? Did you stay friends after that? Yes, that was what made his friend forever. Oh, okay. That's what you asked me, sure. Yeah. It's true, Sam, that's the, you know, like I said, if you flew with a shark out of water, well. Yes. Yeah. So, you, when you started working a lot in film in Hollywood, I mean, that's very different than sitting alone, writing, um, your meeting with these famous people, Bert Landcast, or another people who are doing script doctrine, what was that like? Well, I just thought it was a lot of fun, um, another grand adventure, you know, just, just another adventure in life, that's all. It's, uh, I liked a lot of those people, you know, I liked a little Bert Landcast, some of those people.

He thought I was an Indian, so I got along with him. I just... I read that in your book. He thought you were, thought you were Indian and he really wanted to be nice to you. Yeah. But Indian, you know, ate or something, way back there, but, uh, it shocked our Indian. But he thought I was, well, but Indian for some reason, and, uh, all right, he got that. But anyway, he had this idea that he's supposed to have American Indians, and he was sincere about it, I suppose. I got along this fine with him. He didn't make my picture. He paid me good while we were fooling around there. What was, uh, your favorite time when one of your... Pardon? What was your favorite experience seeing your stories brought to the screen? In, in Hollywood or in the film? In the film, yeah. I think that, well, the favorite thing I, I think in film was when I saw the rounders, they realized that it had been made, uh, really in his, uh, almost 90 percent of the quality

of the book, uh, about the way Cowboys really work, how they operate in town, they're, they're such a survival humor, they're humorous for survival. And, uh, I thought that was beautifully done. Nah, I think that was my greatest thrill. Yeah. I couldn't believe they would do it, I'd heard all, all this crap and going about how they run, run their works on the screen, and it's just the opposite, I felt like the book was honored. I know you had a, a big role to play getting the film industry going again in New Mexico with Governor Cargo. Yeah. So, who were the first people who started coming back here making films, you remember? Pardon? Who were the people who really started making films a lot in New Mexico? Well, Bird Kennedy made four here, he got into rounders, he made four films and, uh, Sam Beckenfell came back, he made his, his worst film, he made here in Albuquerque.

Which one was that? Convoy, first film he ever made, but he dropped 19 million dollars here in town, so, you know, he wasn't bad, he put up a little Sam for 19 million, for a few days. Did you, what, did you like being part of the film industry? Was it enjoyable? Yeah, in the beginning, because once it was done, I wanted to do something else, once it was successful. But I must say old David Cargo, Governor Cargo, I should call him, he's underrated about what he did from New Mexico, I think, you know, the public installed, he acted too much like a Democrat, and Democrat started well, he's just a Republican, and so the politicians didn't pay much attention. But in truth, the film industry's been a billion, billion dollar deal in this state of New Mexico, and when he, he called me, and I was a member, founding member of that film commission, he called me for one reason.

He knew I knew a few of those people, and he couldn't get anybody to answer his calls out there. He was really trying, but he just got through the second, secondation law and the secretaries. And so I knew two or three, personally, knew some producers, and I went out there and set up a meeting with, we had 57 producers and directors at this meeting in the Beverly Hills Hotel, and David Cargo came, and he had three or four of his staff, and so he, here they are, or my next one about forever, I could never go back to Hollywood, and I'd be doomed if this didn't work, because these people have given up their first hack of their day, and shooting or whatever they were doing, writing or producing, to come to this cockeyed meeting.

And I think there was 57 or 60, I can't remember what the number is, over mid-mid-50s, producers and directors, somehow, had talked into governor. So then I had to, but he said, excuse me, I'm joking here. Give me some water. Yeah. Then I really needed to paint it, because Cargo's getting up to make the space for these producers and directors. And I thought, well, he'll blabber on like politics is by their nature have to do, it's probably what they have to do. And by God, as he got up there and did about a 50-minute talk about New Mexico, there was just beautiful. And I looked around and they were just, I could see, hey, they really like him. They really are.

I was going to be lucky. And they did, and we brought back four pictures, one right away, good guys and bad guys at the shot in Chalma, in the Bird Kennedy, starring Robert Mitchem and a bunch of people. And it just went from there. But it was a freak thing. It really was a wonderful, freak thing. We just looked out. And a lot of people, everybody in New Mexico, one way or the other, has gained from that meeting. In that 15-minute, I've old cargo, conning the conners. So you kept your reputation in Hollywood? Yeah. Yeah. It was all together. In fact, it helped me really. Yeah. Since it was a success, everybody had a success. That's just human nature. You know, I know Peck and Pa really, really wanted to make high-low country. He never got a chance to do it, but it was finally made in the 90s.

Yeah. I guess Corsese reached out to you, you know. And it was a dream of his life. He optioned that thing. We lived over the options, those years, I guess I've missed a written ten books over options in a high-low country. Really? Because someone would option it, and then the options would expire, and then someone else would. I guess we're going to make options shorter and shorter, you know. It's going to turn it over and get another deal, but Corsese Hillman, that's telling him I come away over here today, that Corsese Hillman told me one time, I didn't need to tell me this. I already knew it, but it has interesting that he told me he said, Max, when you sell a book it's done. He said, you can't sell options anymore, once they make a movie, go over. He's very sad. He had a movie made out of Roman book, he couldn't sell options again. What did you think of when they finally made high-low country, what did you think of the movie?

Well, you know, it was a sounding thing to me, they hired a British. Yes, Stephen Freer. But Stephen Freer is a great, true, great director, internationally he's really known. But I was a little worried about him making a westerner, and then I thought, okay, this is a real westerner, this is not a shoot him up westerner, this is the cattle, the conflict between people from different branches, different situations, and if he's a good director and a smart man, he would be able to observe this as good as any American born director, because they were out of cowboy and they were working on branches, they were making a ribbon, and he's in the old house. They weren't either, so there he are. And boy, he took the time and set it everybody in his cast. He was really made of honest, really legitimately honest picture, out of the high-low country. I was thrilled to death with him.

You're a lamb. You're still a lamb. As a lover of stories, what are you most proud of? Pardon? What stories you've done, what are you most proud of? I guess a little story, I'm proud of three things that I did in my life, the one-eyed sky, at Nobel. It's also a book by itself, and a book by the family, and one other, I did, oh, my last published book was Royal Music, those are three books that I feel were my best. Why do you feel that they were your best work? I don't have any idea how I judge what, in my mind, what's the best, I have no idea, I can't honestly tell you that. Okay. What would you like people to take away from your stories?

I guess they had a hell of a good time. Oh, Max Evans, thank you very much for talking with us. You're certainly welcome. Okay, I wasn't sure she wanted to, she's talking to me, so what do you want me to add, but word, yeah, a little bit, yeah. Tell me to ask her, why is that important? Okay. Anything else? Okay. Okay. Max, why is it important for people to come away and have had a good time? Well, you wouldn't want them coming to where I have it a bad time, shepherds can be. But a lot, you have some tragic elements in your stories. Yes.

Well, in life that way, I mean, I think we go around hiding how we are and what we really do and what's happened to us every single day, maybe every single hour of our life. So if it's real in the print and page and in that form of screen, there it is. There it is, you can relive it, relive it, however you wish. But everybody's affected differently by story, reader, every reader I am, you know. My favorite author of all times was Ballsack, that old French writer. And I can't tell you what pulls me into his work. I just know that I'm captivated, that he educates me and I'm surprised at the things that he characterizations, that he brings up. I'm constantly surprised and I feel enlightened, oh, I don't use that, but why didn't I think of that, you know?

He makes your mind work and turn over. And I think that's, if you can make people feel that way, laugh and cry, I don't mean just down in the blood work, but cry inside and laugh inside, that you've done your job. And I think I have a few of my works. I would agree without, well, Max Evans, thank you very much for coming and talking with us. I really enjoyed it. Do you want me to ask the, okay? Like character, okay, okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. I, we're doing some extra questions for a literacy campaign thing. I know you said Balzax, one of your favorite authors, what, what makes, what is the element of a great story or great book, like what one of his stories? I have to make the reader and enhance the reader's life, create revelations. How did Balzax do that for you? Yeah, he did. How did he do it for you, do you know? I have no idea, he, how Ms. Balzax did that, but he certainly did. The proof is that I read every book I could find because he kept giving me, he kept giving me something or I wouldn't, I wouldn't keep reading like that. I think I have 44 books, the Balzax, I read every one of them. I can't remember single, I remember one title, one book, I'll just see what's that, letters

between two married women. Was there a particular character that was really meaningful, meaningful for you at any particular life? In Balzax? In Balzax or? Yeah, I can't remember his name. Okay. The father and the son, the two books about the first father and the son, those were my initial favorites, and they say in my mind more than any, I'm except that communication between them, the married, there's two married women, how he could have, he did this whole book in letters between these two women, about their marriages, their children there. And all these revelations are different families and different stages of families and the kids on up to ancient elders and two different families, you know, that's really writing to put that in one book, that's a lot to do, he did it beautifully.

What was it about the father and the son stories that really captured you? You know, just a revelation of living and life, and he had a wonderful night at Balzax, a guy could be running a little shop, he'd make you see that shop, he'd make you feel what the guy was feeling when a certain customer came in, that he liked or didn't like, the beauty of his family or turning the trade or whatever he was turning, a trick if necessary, but the human elements that we all have, that we experience every minute of our lives, we forget it, you know, whenever we're thinking something or we're experiencing something, we're experiencing interior or exterior, and he was a master at that, he made you see it, made you feel it, and even better, made you want more.

Oh, that's great, thank you Max, okay, now we're actually done. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I really appreciate it.