New Mexico in Focus; 1413; Special: Policing in 2020 and Beyond

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND >> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO HEAD ON WITH DIFFICULT CHANGE AND RACIAL INEQUALITY. >> Cardinalli: THIS IS THE NEW THIS COULD POSSIBLY BE THE NEXT >> Gene: PLUS HOW WE MOVE BEYOND INTO ACTION AS WE TALK NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT. TIMES FROM THE COVID-19 CIVIL UNREST, 2020 HAS BEEN FULL CHALLENGES HAVE OFTEN BROUGHT INJUSTICES AND FAILURES. HAVE DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING GOAL THIS WEEK. WE ARE TALKING

MEXICO, AND SPECIFICALLY HERE IN DEPARTMENT IS UNDER AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF TO THE FOUR HIGH PROFILE OUR CONVERSATIONS THIS WEEK ARE ARE BY NO MEANS THE DEFINITIVE WE HOPE THEY GET THE BALL MORE OF THIS IN THE FUTURE WITH PERSPECTIVES. WE BEGIN THIS OF APD TODAY AND THE STATUS I AM JOINED BY, VIA ZOOM, BY DR. FINNIE COLEMAN, ASSOCIATE STUDIES AT THE UNM DEPARTMENT OF STEVE TORRES OF APD WATCHDOG THEIR SON CHRISTOPHER WAS ONE OF WHEN HE WAS JUST 27 YEARS OLD. HEALTH ACTIVIST, WITH US AS

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US. I WANT TO GO AROUND THE HORN SENSE OF THIS. ISSUE OF REFORMING APD SO >> Lynnes: IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME DISORDER, WHEN I SEE THE OFFICERS IN APD, AGAINST PERSONS ME TO MY CORE. AND I FEEL SO SORRY FOR THE LOSS. ISSUE. AND, WE NEED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE POLICE HANDS OF PROFESSIONALS WHO CAN TREATMENT AND CARE THEY NEED AND >> Gene: EXACTLY.

QUESTION. WHY >> Coleman: WELL, FOR ME THIS IS PART OF A BROADER SET OF REFORMS COUNTRY THAT PROVIDES JUSTICE FAR FROM THAT IN MANY RESPECTS YOU KNOW. DEPARTMENT IS MUCH LIKE POLICE OFTEN UNDER-RESOURCED, AND THEN SITUATIONS OR ENGAGE IN PROPERLY TRAINED FOR OR THAT SOCIAL AGENCY WERE THERE. THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE STROKES ABOUT THE INDIVIDUALS DEPARTMENT BUT THIS DEPARTMENT, THIS COUNTRY, NEEDS TO HAVE A TO BE DOING IN OUR

>> Gene: UH-HUH. STEVE, YOU AND YOUR WIFE I AT 27 YEARS OLD. CERTAINLY. WATCH DOG ON APD'S REFORM DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CONSENT SINCE YOUR SON'S DEATH, I HAVE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN HOW APD >> Torres: THE ANSWER IS YES AND IN SOME ASPECTS WE HAVE SEEN FOR EXAMPLE, LET ME GIVE YOU ONE I HAVE SEEN INCREDIBLE CHANGE CIT OFFICERS, CRISIS I HAVE WORKED WITH THEM. THEM OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AND MADE IN THEIR TRAINING AND HOW CRITICAL SITUATIONS WITH THE

ON THE ONE HAND I HAVE SEEN AS WORKING WITH APD FORWARD, AS MONITOR THE COMPLIANCE AND AND WE HAVE SEEN PROGRESS THERE. DEPARTMENT HAS MET A NUMBER OF YEARS. THE SUPERVISION OF THE FEDERAL DECREE. ABSENT THAT, I DON'T THINK IT HAPPENED. STILL A LOT OF RESISTANCE FROM A OFFICERS AND WHAT REALLY UPSETS A LOT OF RESISTANCE FROM THE SERGEANTS, NOT THE GUYS DOWN ON AND MOST OF THE UPPER LEVEL ON BOARD OR TRYING TO COME ON

OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THERE CHANGE. PROBLEM AND THEY DON'T THINK THE WAY THEY HAVE DONE THINGS >> Gene: DR. FINNIE COLEMAN, THE RIDE. TO FIGHT THIS AND THE KELLER EMBRACING AND TAKING A DIFFERENT DOING THE REPORTS. AS STEVE MENTIONED WE STILL OPERATIONAL MEASURES AND AS WE WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE, REAL CHANGE THAT PEOPLE >> Coleman: WELL, I THINK THE TRUE ANSWER TO THAT IS ONE THAT HAPPY WITH. LONGER PERIOD OF TIME THAN, SAY, ALLOW.

OUR ALBUQUERQUE POLICE ALSO COMES IN THERE ARE CERTAIN ARE HELD TO AS PART OF THE ETHOS YOU KNOW, WITH THE POLICE BIRD AT THE POLICE ACADEMY IS TOGETHER A GOOD SOLID CURRICULUM TRAINED THAT THEY UNDERSTAND IMPLICIT BIAS AND OTHER THINGS. THAT, LEADERS LIKE THAT, WHO CAN TO POLITICAL PRESSURE FROM OFFICERS PROPERLY TRAINED, I BUT, IF WE HAVE PEOPLE, OR COMMANDERS, IF THEY JOIN IN WITH SERGEANTS LEVEL WHO ARE

GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT, IF THE KEY IS THINGS CHANGE OVER AND, THAT IS GOING TO BE A MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN THE TERMS OF MEETING THOSE MEASURES BENCHMARKS, IT IS GOING TO TAKE ALSO MEANS THE TRAINING OF OUR WHEN GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO STRATEGIES THAT CAN IMPROVE THAT INDICATES THAT THOSE PARTICIPATE IN THAT, BUT THE OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE AND THEN CAN PROGRESS. >> Gene: ACCOUNTABILITY IS A BIG TOPIC WHEN IT COMES TO THIS. SOME STEPS RECENTLY GETTING A

MEANING PASSING A BILL IN THE WITH BODY CAMERAS, CREATING A CERTAINLY. QUALIFIED IMMUNITY. OF BAD COPS THROUGH LAWSUITS AND IS THIS A GOOD START, WHAT THE SPECIAL SESSION? >> Lynnes: I THINK THAT IS ISSUES MORE OF SYSTEMIC RACISM I THINK THE MENTAL ILLNESS ISSUE BECAUSE THERE IS ISSUES WHERE AFFECT PEOPLES' RIGHT TO IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN, YOU FOR CRISIS INTERVENTION TEAM FOR WE HAD A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH OFFICERS BE PART OF THE CIT, HOW IS IT NOT SOMETHING TO IPRA AND THEY DON'T WANT THAT VIDEO

HAPPENED WHEN THEY HAVE A BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TOUCH ON TRAINING IN THE ETHOS. BIT ADDITIONAL TRAINING. SIGMA AND I HAVE LIVED WITH IT ABOUT PERSONS WITH MENTAL VIOLENCE THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE AND I THINK THAT WHAT HAPPENED UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT WHEN, YOU CRACKS FOR TREATMENT AND KILLED IN ALBUQUERQUE. GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT. I THINK PEOPLE WITH MENTAL INVOLVED IN THAT TRAINING SO BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT IS, I AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE OF THESE I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO DO

YOU CAN LOOK AT THE MODEL IN BEEN DOING THIS FOR 30 YEARS AND POLICE. CONFLICT RESOLUTION CRISIS, GETTING PEOPLE TO HOSPITALS, A VIOLENT INCIDENT. BASED ON EUGENE. HAVE HANDLED SINCE JUNE. DIFFERENT WAY TO HANDLE MOST OF WE MAYBE GET EVERYBODY TO IS, AND TO BE MORE EMPATHETIC BUT, FRANKLY, I DON'T SEE THIS POLICE SHOULD BE DOING. >> Gene: STEVE, TOUCH ON THAT IF OUT IMMEDIATELY AT THE DROP. CHANGES WOULD LOOK TO YOU,

>> Torres: AS INDICATED EARLIER, LEGISLATIVE SESSION, I BELIEVE KID OURSELVES. IT IS A START AND WE ALL KNOW WE THIS PROCESS OF REFORMING APD IS PROJECT. LAST PROBABLY BEYOND MY I HOPE I GET TO SEE THE DAY WHEN REFORMED BUT IT IS A START. HAVE FAITH THAT HOPEFULLY IT CAN FOLLOW-UP ON THAT. ILL AND THEIR INTERACTIONS WITH OFTENTIMES WE WAIT TOO LONG. BECOMES CRITICAL, UNTIL THE STATE OF BEING DANGEROUS TO POINT IT IS PAST TIME OF CALLING

UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETIMES THE POINT IS THE POLICE. WHERE WE CAN GET INTERVENTION ASHAMED OR EMBARRASSED TO CALL MY DAUGHTER OR HUSBAND OR THEY ARE OFF THEIR MEDS, HAVEN'T WE NEED SOMEBODY TO COME AND AT THAT POINT, YES, SOCIAL ARE MAYBE ALL THAT IS NEEDED. IS THREATENING TO SHOOT HIMSELF UNFORTUNATELY MANY TIMES THE POLICE. >> Gene: KEY DISTINCTION. I IT IS THE ART OF THE CRAFT. I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THAT ROLE FOR RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IN

>> Coleman: CERTAINLY. TALK ABOUT THIS LATER. ABOUT DEFUNDING POLICE OR WE HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, FOR WHERE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT MEANS EVERYTHING THAT ALBUQUERQUE GETTING RID -- I UNDERSTAND BUT, THERE IS ANOTHER ARGUMENT BACK THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE LOOK AT WHAT IT IS WE EXPECT FOR ALLOCATE OR REALLOCATE RESOURCES EFFECTIVE, RIGHT? JUSTICE CERTAINLY ON A WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS ANYTHING THAT A POLICE OFFICER

YOU KNOW, RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IS OF PEOPLE DISMISS WITHOUT FULLY SORT OF LIKE REPARATIONS. GIVING SOMETHING TO SOMEONE WHO WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN TOOK PLACE THERE, RESTORATIVE TO THE PERSON MAKING THEM WHOLE, HAD HAPPENED IN A WAY THAT AGAIN IN THE FUTURE OR TRIES TO FUTURE. GET HUNG UP ON THE MATERIAL WHEN AS PART OF OUR HEALING AS A KIND OF ACTIONS TAKE PLACE IN RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IF WE ARE DIFFERENT INCIDENTS. INCIDENTS, OBVIOUSLY, RIGHT. WE HAVE >> Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR

I APPRECIATE YOUR CANDID THE CALLS FOR CHANGE IN APD HAVE COME LOUDEST IN THE FORM OF AND ACROSS THE STATE IN THE WAKE OTHER HIGH PROFILE POLICE WE WANTED TO TALK TO LOCAL OUT WHAT CHANGE THEY ARE LOOKING AND HOW THEY SEE THEIR ROLE IN APD. CARDINALLI, COMMUNITY ORGANIZER LAQUONTE BARRY IS ALSO AN MEXICO MOVEMENT. REED EASTERWOOD. WE HAD ANOTHER GUEST LINED UP, A SHE COULDN'T MAKE IT. WOMAN IN THIS CONVERSATION IN A WE'LL PICK THAT UP DOWN THE SO IT IS A BIT OF A HOLE TODAY. THIS.

VARIOUS WAYS IN LOCAL PROTESTS WITHIN APD BUT WHY DID YOU >> Cardinalli: FOR TRUTH IS POWER NEW MEXICO, WE JUST FELT FEEL ALONE IN THIS HISTORIC YOU KNOW THE WHITE HOUSE SENT APD STILL UNDER JUSTICE OVERSIGHT AND WE HAVE ISSUES CARRYING THEIR CAMERAS AND WHITE HOUSE. FOLKS TO KNOW THAT NEW MEXICO IS MOVEMENT IS STILL HERE. THAT WE WANT TO BE PART OF THIS MOVEMENT. MOVEMENT. RECONSTRUCTION. FAITH LEADERS AND COMMUNITY

THEIR CONCERN AND THEIR PROTESTS >> Gene: WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO >> Barry: WELL, I WOULD LIKE SAY HAVING AN ORGANIZATION, GEORGE ME, MYSELF, I AM FROM SOUTH WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT IS A RACISM. I AM A BIG FAN OF THE STORY. KID. ME TO TAKE A LEAD AND BRING IN A VISION AS MYSELF TO GET OUT AND NEW MEXICO AND ACTUALLY GET OUT CITIES AS WELL, SO THAT PEOPLE IN SUPPORT OF WHAT IS GOING ON EVERYONE ELSE WANTS CHANGE AS >> Gene: REED, I DO HAVE A BIT YOU. FRIEND, FRANKLY, KEN REESE, WAS RECENT DEADLY APD SHOOTINGS. 911 IN FEAR FOR HIS LIFE BECAUSE

DESCRIBED IT OVER THE PHONE. QUESTIONS AND HE IS NOT WITH US. LOCAL PROTESTS. DIFFERENTLY THAN THE OTHER HIGH KNOW ABOUT? >> Easterwood: IT IS A PERSONAL LOSS. DEFINITELY WAS A VERY GOOD AND WHEN SOMEONE DIES THAT IS IT INTO PERSPECTIVE, QUOTE UNREAL. WITH THE NEED FOR POLICE REFORM SOMETHING SAID EARLIER, THE AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY HAD TO NEEDED ATTENTION AND I GO BACK A

CONSENT DECREE ON THE OF CONCERN TO ME AND WHERE THAT SPECIFICALLY, WHEN KEN WAS BONDING MORE IN WHAT I CALL THE BRUTALITY. WHAT OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS OR GOING THROUGH, BUT I FEEL LIKE PEG ON THAT GRIEF PROCESS AND COUNTRY FOR CALLS FOR POLICE >> Gene: WHAT REED IS TALKING US HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, POLICE WE ARE USED TO THESE KIND OF IS WELL AND GOOD AND SAD AS IT DIFFERENT THAT KEN WAS WHITE? >> Cardinalli: I DON'T

BRUTALITY IS A PART OF A CULTURE HAVE THESE LARGER CONVERSATIONS THE POLICE. WHAT PHRASES YOU USE AND WHAT WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT, IN SYSTEMIC POINT OF VIEW, POLICING PEOPLE ARE TO THE POINT WHERE DEFUND OR SOME OTHER REIMAGINED WORKING. SINCE 80'S AND 90'S. THEY HAVE RUN RAMPANT OVER LOS WE HAVE SEEN THIS FOR 30 YEARS IT FOR 50 60 YEARS BEFORE THAT, ADDRESS WHY PEOPLE ARE PUSHING AGAIN, KEN'S DEATH IS TRAGIC

IS A PREPONDERANCE OF BLUE ON OVERALL THERE NEEDS TO BE CULTURE OF POLICING, IN THE >> Gene: LAQUONTE, PICK UP ON THAT SITUATION AND WHERE THE >> Barry: I AGREE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS NOT ABOUT -- I THINK THAT CONFUSED. ABOUT, LIKE I SAID ALL THE TIME, SOMEONE'S LIFE WAS TAKEN. SOMEONE'S UNCLE, SOMEONE'S IT IS BIGGER THAN THAT AND A THAT IS WHY WE SAY WE ARE ABOUT WE SAY THAT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THESE YEARS. PEOPLE, OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT SYSTEM JUST TO WORK FOR EVERYONE DOWN AND DO AWAY WITH IT

ONCE YOU DO TEAR IT DOWN AND GET NEXT? ANYONE THAT SAYS ABOLISH. ABOLISH? HAVE NOW THAT WORKED FOR PEOPLE EVERYONE, NOT ABOUT JUST WHAT MONEY YOU HAVE, MAKE IT WORK FOR FIX THAT AND GET IT RIGHT FOR >> Gene: REED, LAQUONE USED THE IT IS A WORD THAT IS OUT THERE. MOVEMENT OR REFORM ISSUES. WHICH TO YOU IS -- MAYBE THERE BESIDES ABOLISH OR DEFUND. SHOULD CONSIDER THE CHANGES WE >> Easterwood: WELL, IF I SAYING, AND I THINK I DO. RID OF THE POLICE.

LONG AS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE IN WHICH HAS BEEN THE NATURE OF INCEPTION. QUOTE UNQUOTE, ISN'T NECESSARILY UNLESS YOU PUT LIMITATIONS ON IN MY VIEW, A GREAT WAY TO MOVE THE CALLS POLICE RESPOND TO OFF MENTAL F TYPE CALLS, DOMESTIC AND THAT PRESENTS ANOTHER CAN OF MANDATE. CALL THAT COULD INTERCEPT AND VIOLENCE. WAY TO REFORM THE POLICE ACROSS ALBUQUERQUE AND FOCUS THE POLICE THEIR MANDATE TO BEGIN WITH

WAS JUST SORT OF PROTECTING >> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT. >> Cardinalli: I WOULD LIKE TO I APPRECIATE THE QUANDARY OVER ACTUALLY THINK THAT IT IS GOING BAD BRANDING. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN IN LIKE TIMES AND IN VOX OVER AND OVER HAVE MISSED THE MARK TRAGICALLY IMPORTANT MOVEMENT, AN IMPORTANT BUT, TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT OVER DIFFICULT, LIKE THAT IS THE AGAIN, WHEN PEOPLE ARE -- I CAUSES A BACKLASH, YOU KNOW. ON US. HAIRS OF THESE SOCIOPOLITICAL WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK,

IT IS ABOLISH THE POLICE AND WE EXPLANATION. I THINK IT ALSO MENTALITY THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A OUR POLICING. ALLOCATE FUNDS TO THE COPS BUT PROPERLY ALLOCATE, AS REED WAS HEALTHCARE. WE HAVE HAD OUR OWN YEARS AGO, YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT THE COPS HERE. IS MORE ABOUT PROPER ALLOCATION, THAT IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY POINT OF VIEW. KATIE ARGUING AGAIN OVER SCRAPS THAT IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE ALLOCATION >> Gene: THREE MINUTES LEFT. LAQUONE, HOW IMPORTANT IS AND ACCOUNTABILITY, OF COURSE, I MEAN, WHERE DOES IT COME FROM? UPCOMING

>> Barry: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND WE WERE SAYING THE SOMEONE OF COLOR OR SOMEONE THAT SO, THEY CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THE AND WE STATED BEFORE WE ARE IN IT IS VERY DIVERSE. HAVE IN KENTUCKY OR PORTLAND OR WHAT WE HAVE HERE, BECAUSE WE SO, I THINK THAT IS WHY WE NEED ROOM OF HOW WE CAN GET THINGS BECAUSE WE SHOULDN'T BE GOING THROUGH WITH BEING SO DIVERSE. >> Gene: REED, CREATING A LONG HAUL TRADITIONALLY, BUT NOT BE AS LONG AS WE MAY THINK YOURSELVES, ACTIVISTS, CHANGE RIGHT NOW. THINGS, IT IS GOING TO TAKE A

TO HAVE CHANGES RIGHT NOW. >> Easterwood: THIS YEAR IS HARD YEAR WITH EVERYTHING GOING ON THAT IS HOW I WOULD ANSWER THAT. FISSURES IN OUR SYSTEM AND I U.S. BUT THE WORLD ARE LOOKING RESPONSE, SOME SORT OF DIFFERENT HUMAN SYSTEMS, PERIOD. TRACTION INTO NEXT YEAR AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A ON THE SIDE OF -- I KIND OF HAVE BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT HUMANS OF GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS. THIS PERIOD WHERE THE TASK IS FOR US TOO.

THIS IS GLOBAL. HUGE PROBLEM. HAVE MUCH TIME -- BUT I THINK LOT OF CHANGE. >> Gene: I WANT TO THANK YOU GUYS A LOT TALKING SO OPENLY ABOUT IT. YOU MORE IN THE FUTURE ABOUT IT >> Gene: ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY HAVE BEEN THEMES ON THE SHOW, AND A LOT OF TIMES THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM. NOW ON WHAT EXACTLY THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN THEY >> Gene: I'D LIKE TO WELCOME NEW MEXICO. HERE IN TOWN. PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT UNM NOW, MARSHAL, LET ME START

THE STATE LEGISLATURE THIS OF A CIVIL RIGHTS TO AMONG OTHER THINGS LOOK IMMUNITY. IMMUNITY AND WHAT SHOULD A >> Marshal: QUALIFIED IMMUNITY BROUGHT AGAINST PERSONS ACTING USUALLY LAW ENFORCEMENT IF I, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, FEEL OFFICER OR OTHER PERSON LAW HAS VIOLATED MY RIGHTS UNDER FEDERAL LAW, I DAMAGES OR SOME OTHER DEFENSE CALLED QUALIFIED AND THE GIST OF IT IS, IF ACTED REASONABLY UNDER THE OBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT, THEN NOT ONLY DO YOU NOT GET TO BUT YOU CAN'T EVEN MOVE

YOU CAN'T GET DISCOVERY, YOU CAN'T LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR >> Gene: YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WOULD SURPRISE MOST FOLKS. PUSHED FOR CHANGES TO THE SAME SESSION WE'RE GOVERNOR DIDN'T PUT IT ON DO YOU EXPECT A BILL TO BE AND IF SO, WHAT WILL IT BE >> Peter: WELL, OF COURSE, THE MEMORIAL GOING FORWARD THAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, SO BY THE HAVE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FROM WAY JUST INVOLVES SOME OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, AND I THINK HOPING, WILL GO FORWARD IN THE THAT THE LEGISLATURE WOULD YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO

ASSUMING ONE WOULD COME OUT WOULDN'T GET RID OF THAT IS A FEDERAL LEGAL WHAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY DO IS ABILITY TO SUE UNDER OUR SAME VERY ANALOGOUS RIGHTS THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION, DAMAGES AND RELIEF THAT BUT UNDER OUR STATE THAT'S VERY CRITICAL. ORGANIZATION FILE CIVIL IN FEDERAL COURT, AND WE ON QUALIFIED IMMUNITY EVEN JUSTIFIED GROUNDS FOR SUING VIOLATIONS, LAW ENFORCEMENT GOVERNMENT ACTORS ON FIRST PROCESS ISSUES, WHATEVER IT SO THIS GIVES THE RESIDENTS CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, JUST LIKE ACT, TO BE ABLE TO SUE UNDER GET SOME SORT OF REDEMPTION

>> Gene: ALFRED MATTHEWSON, ARE DEPARTMENTS AROUND THE COUNTRY WITH GETTING RID OF QUALIFIED >> Alfred: I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY. PETER MIGHT KNOW, BUT I'M >> Gene: HOW >> Alfred: WELL, I THINK THAT -- I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WILL GET A JUST LOOKING AT WHAT'S PROCESS, THINGS HAVE BEEN THERE'S A SYSTEM THAT'S THE OFFICERS ARE A PART OF REGIMEN THAT PROTECTS YOU AGREE TO ONE THAT WAS GOING >> Gene: RIGHT. DO WE HAVE A FEEL, ALFRED, THIS? DEMAND, AND YOUR SENSE OF >> Alfred:

>> Gene: OKAY. >> Alfred: AND WHICH WAY THE LOT OF VERY LOUD VOICES THAT ARE IMMUNITY -- A REFORM OF ARE SOME SURPRISING VOICES. LIMITED TO BLACK >> Peter: JUST QUICKLY, I JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE POINT, REALLY, THAT IS THAT ONE OF THE TO GETTING RID OF QUALIFIED OR SKIRTING AROUND IT, IS THAT THE POSITION OF REPRESENTING THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. THE GREAT MAJORITY, CIVIL RIGHTS CASES BROUGHT OFFICERS ARE INDEMNIFIED BY THEIR LEGAL FEES ARE PAID

BY THE DEPARTMENT. ARGUMENT COME UP IN LEGISLATION, BUT IT IS A RED >> Gene: THAT'S IMPORTANT. THERE. IMPORTANT POINT FROM ANOTHER IS THAT OFFICERS FEEL LIKE DECISION THEY MAKE IF THEY PARALYZED TO ACT. OF ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT THEIR JOB WITHOUT LIVING IN >> Marshal: WELL, CERTAINLY THERE IS, AND IT GOES BACK TO THESE PROPOSED REFORMS, ELIMINATE QUALIFIED MAKE IT A MORE REASONABLE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WHAT A PRACTICAL SENSE IS THAT IF IDENTICAL FACTUAL PRECEDENT THAT'S A CONSTITUTIONAL

RECOVER ON THAT EVEN IF THE COURT BELIEVES CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION. A CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION, ANOTHER COURT SAY THIS IS A THIS FACTUAL SCENARIO, SO WHAT IF WE COULD JUST STEP, IF YOU COULD REFORM CONCEPT SO THAT YOU DON'T HAPPENED BEFORE, SO I GET A IF YOU VIOLATED A YOU VIOLATED A RIGHT AND YOU >> Gene: INTERESTING POINT ALFRED MATTHEWSON, IT'S ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY OVER THE YEARS IN CIVIL I'M JUST CURIOUS WHERE THIS SORT OF AREA. USING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY,

PUBLIC TO STILL BE ABLE TO OF RESTITUTION AFTER THINGS >> Alfred: WELL, THERE ARE PROCESS IN TERMS OF HOW IT'S SO QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, YOU AGAINST THE OFFICER, BUT AGAINST THE CITY IN AND THERE'S A DIFFERENT THE CITY. SO BETWEEN THE TWO LAWSUITS, DON'T GET QUALIFIED IMMUNITY LIABLE, CASES DO HAPPEN. PUBLIC WOULD BE SURPRISED AT PAYING OUT AROUND THE NEW YORK PAYS ABOUT >> Gene: WOW. >> Alfred: -- TO SETTLE CASES. LOT. AND EVEN IN ALBUQUERQUE. LATELY, BUT ALBUQUERQUE PAYS THIS IS COMING FROM THE

THIS GOES TO -- IN TERMS OF IMMUNITY, YOU CAN COUNT ME ELIMINATE IT, BECAUSE TRANSFORMATION, AND SIMPLY ANOTHER INCREMENTAL CHANGE. ACCOUNTABILITY AND SHAKE HAPPENS WHEN THE OFFICERS DO DECISIONS. GET INTO THE SITUATION, IT TO EMBARK ON A CALL. TACTICAL INCIDENT, IT STARTS I MEAN, LOOK AT THE BREONNA IT DIDN'T START WHEN THEY BEFORE THEY GOT THERE. THINKING ABOUT HOW YOU STAGE TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY. >> Gene: THAT'S AN INTERESTING TRACK OF BEHAVIOR

>> Peter: WELL, IN MY OPINION, I THINK CHANGING THE QUALIFIED ALTERNATIVE WAY FOR OUR RIGHTS ON PAPER, BUT RIGHTS THAT ARE JUST ONE INGREDIENT IN A WHOLE THINGS THAT I THINK NEED TO DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE PATTERNS SEEN, PARTICULARLY PRACTICED AROUND THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN THAT SUFFER FROM MENTAL ILLNESS. INGREDIENT, BUT THE USE OF MECHANISM FOR CHANGING THE WAY OFFICERS USING DEESCALATION AS A WAY FORCE, REDUCING THE NUMBER ARMED AND MAYBE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBILITIES FOR TO NONARMED, NONUNIFORMED

MORE SKILLED IN DEALING WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OR THINGS NEED TO WORK IN QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, IN MY OF REPARATION FOR THAT >> Gene: MARSHAL RAY, IS THIS A LEADERSHIP ISSUE? FORWARD IN A SINGULAR IS IT A CHIEF OF POLICE? A GOVERNOR? DIAL ON THIS AND MAKE IT >> Marshal: I WOULD THINK THAT AGENCIES. NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE BUT I DO WANT TO ADD MR. SIMONSON SAID. STRUGGLES THAT WE HAVE IS IN A PARTICULAR USE OF FORCE INVOLVING A PERSON ACTING AN INDIVIDUAL.

THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY INVESTIGATE YOUR CLAIM BY CAN'T GET EVIDENCE, THAT FOR AGENCIES TO CIRCLE THE PREVENT YOU FROM LEARNING AND INITIATIVES THAT HELP -- FOR EXAMPLE, THE CAMERA APPLY TO ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT MEXICO WILL HELP. >> Gene: MARSHAL, WE ARE GOING TO TACKLE THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY WRAP THIS UP. I KNOW WE COULD TALK ABOUT SO MARSHAL RAY, PETER MATTHEWSON, THANK YOU GUYS I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS >> Gene: A LOT HAS BEEN MADE OFFICERS ARE OFTEN ASKED TO

AREN'T REALLY TRAINED TO HANDLE. BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES. CONVERSATION, AS WELL, AND ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM KELLER HANDLES THOSE TYPES OF >> Gene: ON ZOOM WITH ME NOW IS ORGANIZATION PSYCHOLOGIST. LINDSTROM, VICE-PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL, WHICH OFFERS CONSULTING SERVICES. DIRECTOR OF THE STATE HEALTH, IF HE LOOKS JUST A ALSO WITH ME IS CLINICAL WILSON. FOR THIS DISCUSSION. WITH YOU FIRST HERE. ANNOUNCED HIS DESIRE TO SAFETY DEPARTMENT WITHIN THE IDEA IS PRETTY SIMPLE. THIS IS ABOUT. AND FIRE TO BASICALLY ALL SOCIAL WORKERS, HOMELESS NONFIREARM-WIELDING

CALLS THEY'RE PREPARED TO SO DR. ALLENA, THIS SOUNDS DIRECTION, BUT YOU FEEL LIKE RIGHT, THAT IT'S AVOIDING APD? >> Thom: WELL, I THINK IT'S BOTH EITHER/OR. MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO USE PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE THINGS THAT SOCIAL WORKERS, SPECIALISTS CAN DO TO TAKE POLICE. THAT IT DOES REQUIRE SOME OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM, MOST SO IT'S GOING TO CHANGE. NUMBER >> Gene: WAYNE LINDSTROM, CREATING A NEW DEPARTMENT OR A CREATING A NEW CULTURE. THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF FOLKS

REALLY KIND OF STRIP IT REFINEMENT OF THE CULTURE HOW WOULD THIS WORK IF THERE EMERGENCY CALLS? WHO IS ACTUALLY >> Wayne: WELL, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO PROVIDE A DISCUSSION. BEING THE NEW NATIONAL CRISIS LINE. WENT THROUGH BACK IN THE INTRODUCED. WEEK IN THE U.S. CONGRESS, SIGNS IT, THIS WILL GO INTO ALLOCATION ATTACHED TO IT, OPPORTUNITY TO DECIDE INTEGRATE INTO THIS NEW AND WHY THIS IS CRITICAL IS

BEHAVIORAL HEALTH A SYSTEM CALL. A POLICE CAR, A FIRE TRUCK, IT'S HIGHLY INEFFICIENT. WHO IS SUICIDAL, WHO HAS A OUT ALL THESE VEHICLES WITH FLASHING, ETC., IT IS NOT RESPOND TO INDIVIDUALS IN SO BEING ABLE TO HAVE A CALL NEW MEXICO CRISIS AND ACCESS OF THE TECHNOLOGICAL AVAILABLE TO BE ABLE TO THAT CAN BE MADE UP OF A LIVED EXPERIENCE THAT KNOW SITUATIONS, ETC., AND NOT

THERE'S A REAL PUBLIC SAFETY BEING THE MINORITY OF THE SO I THINK THAT WHAT'S GOING THAT WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT SITUATIONS, A LOT OF THIS WE ENFORCEMENT, OUT OF THE >> Gene: FRAIZER WILSON, LET ME ARE THERE ANY EXAMPLES OUT THAT WE COULD LOOK TO WHERE MENTAL HEALTH AND EMERGENCY REDUCTION? HAVE >> Frazier: NOT THAT I KNOW OF. I MEAN, I ONLY CAN SPEAK FOR EXPERIENCE. EXAMPLE, I WAS WORKING FOR INDIAN COMMUNITY IN BUILDING PROGRAM WHICH INVOLVED THE COMMUNITY.

HAPPENED, THE FIRST THING AUTOMATICALLY PROCESS FOR THAT KIND OF THING, IT WAS ASSESS THE SITUATION, DRUGS AND ALCOHOL INVOLVED, INTO THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE THING. SOMETHING, IF A LAW WAS ABLE TO BE SET ASIDE AS LONG REQUIRED TREATMENT THAT CAME DIVISION. SUCCESS IN THAT, SO MUCH OUR FINDINGS TO SAMHSA IN FURTHERED TO CONTINUE THAT SO THAT WORKED THERE. THAT THAT REALLY WORKED IS

SENSE OF COMMUNITY. THE SALT RIVER, IF YOU DON'T COMMUNITY WHERE THERE'S THE THERE'S ALSO PEOPLE THAT THE COMMUNITY. THAT MADE THAT WORK. >> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU ON THAT YOU TO PICK UP ON THIS, AS WELL, I'VE GOT TO IMAGINE THERE HAS TO BEFORE >> Thom: ABSOLUTELY, GENE. IT'S SO CRITICAL, AND ACHILLES HEELS OF APD AT BUILDING DEEP TRUST. AFTERNOON IN A CONVENTION THAN WHAT I'M SEEING IN THE WHICH WAS PART OF THE IT REALLY REQUIRES SENSE OF VULNERABILITY. ACHILLES HEELS WITH APD I

ACKNOWLEDGE MISTAKES WHEN BUILDS TRUST, NOT DEFENDING SOMETHING ELSE. INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED OVER THAT WAS A TACTICAL, IN THE BLUNDER. INSIDE THE ALBUQUERQUE OUTSIDE IN FLAK JACKETS WITH THAT DOESN'T BUILD TRUST. OF A GUARDIAN PRESENCE, IT IN ADDITION TO THAT IT HAS THEY HAPPEN. VULNERABILITY WE NEED IN OUR >> Gene: WAYNE LINDSTROM, WHAT HEAR THESE IDEAS AND SAY, THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN HAVE

THINGS CAN GO A LITTLE WIGGY SOMETIMES. THERE IS, IN FACT, JUST >> Wayne: THERE INDEED IS ANOTHER WAY, AND I CERTAINLY THE SAMHSA -- AND THAT'S HEALTH SERVICES BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISIS CARE IN FEBRUARY, AND IT'S BASED ON YOU CAN GO TO THERE REALLY IS A NATIONAL THE COUNTRY TO BE ABLE TO MORE EFFECTIVE AND MUCH MORE AND SO FOR US TO HAVE SPENT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CRISES IN HAVE, IT'S OBVIOUS IT'S NOT

I THINK, HAS HAD A LOT TO DO AND WE COULD SPEND AN ENTIRE ALONE. EXAMPLE, IN MARICOPA COUNTY, THAT LAST YEAR WE WERE ABLE FTEs, IN TERMS OF LAW THEM BACK ON THE STREET WITH AS OPPOSED TO EITHER HAVING HEALTH CRISIS UNDER A BRIDGE HOURS ONBOARDING SOMEBODY IN AND SO THERE IS, INDEED, A I WOULD ENCOURAGE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE CRISIS NOW MODEL AND SEE

>> Gene: I HAVE TO SAY, THAT'S LAID OUT, BECAUSE THAT'S VERY BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, DIFFERENT WAYS. I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THAT'S KIND OF FASCINATING. COULD REALLY OPEN SOME FRAIZER WILSON, I'VE GOT A IS THIS A MOMENT FOR THE DO WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY REALLY SORT OF A HIDDEN ELEMENT TO ALBUQUERQUE'S ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING >> Frazier: WELL, I MEAN, IF CULTURE, I LOOK AT IT LIKE -- WITH POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS SEEING ON THE NEWS AND ALL THESE SITUATIONS AND SOME TYPE OF A LOST, SOMEONE IS SERIOUSLY

IT'S ALL BECAUSE -- I BELIEVE SITUATION. WITH SOMEONE, WHEN SOMEONE FOR ME TO HELP THEM, I HAVE FIRST, FIRST AND FOREMOST, WORK. THE ISSUES WITHOUT JUDGMENT. PIECE THAT'S MISSING. THE ISSUE, AND ALSO HAVING I MEAN, YOU BRING THOSE TWO WORK OUT WELL. BRINGING SOCIAL WORKERS INTO OKAY, SO ARE THE POLICE -- DEPARTMENT, THE ALBUQUERQUE WORKING ON TRYING TO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN A WAY. THE INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED GENTLEMAN WHO SUFFERED FROM

POCKET KNIFE, AND HE WAS SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. SINCE THAT INCIDENT, THE TRYING TO DO SOME WORK AND BUT IT STILL COMES DOWN TO, UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE. MYSELF CAN HELP WITH THOSE WE'RE THOROUGHLY TRAINED IN UNDERSTAND THINGS. WITH JUDGMENT, AND YOU CAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT. TALK WITH THEM, THEY KNOW AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT ME AND THE WHOLE THING ABOUT COURSE, I THINK WE DON'T HISTORY. HISTORY AND WE CAN SEE PEOPLE GET HARMED, WHEN APPROACH A SITUATION AND THAT, DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO

GOING ON. SAY, JUST REAL QUICK, I JUST A BUNCH OF TALK ABOUT PUBLIC I THINK THAT THAT CAN BE CALL ALONE. LIVING WITH HER SON WITH AND HE CAN BE SUFFERING FROM THAT'S WITNESSED BY A THEM VERY WELL, AND THEY PERSPECTIVE, AND RIGHT THEN CAN RESPOND FROM THE WHO MADE THE CALL, AND THAT WRONG, BECAUSE THE PERSON REALLY KNOW WHAT'S >> Gene: I WANT TO THANK THIS THIS WEEK FOR HELPING START THERE'LL BE MUCH, MUCH MORE InFOCUS IN THE FUTURE AS ALWAYS, THANKS FOR ENGAGED. WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN >> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO

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