KEXP Presents Mind Over Matters; Sustainability Segments: Dickson Despommier

this is diane warren your host on the sustainability segment of mind over matters on gst seattle ninety point three fm and online dickey xt dido it my guests this morning it sticks and a palm yeah a professor of microbiology and public health at columbia university where he won the best teacher award six times dixon also received the national two thousand and three american medical student association golden apple award for teaching he has addressed audiences at leading universities including harvard mit and has been invited to speak at the united nations' bits and a pony it is here today to tell us about his book the vertical farm feeding the world in the twenty first century published in two thousand and ten by thomas dunne books welcome virtue would lead you to develop the idea of vertical farming how did the idea come about well it occurred in a quiet minority children retired for about six months now the conflict was called the medical ecology and morales chronicled all of the disturbance in the environment it can result in a hopeless about app which will of course these things but got

depressed or be challenged me to allow them to work on finding a more uplifting outcomes i'm horrible an encouragement of course that we had looked into the possibility of secularism after they concluded that they couldn't see a lot of people reason food on the rooftops because there is a feeling that the crops would grow year round wait a minute if that's the case what we just move your audience for an important piece of the buildings rather than and more than a rear guard has picked up on the idea of what we want you to be a collaborative effort of students and one professor work with elaborate on the purpose or goal of vertical farming you look around the world you can have all both won by using human feces

it's because they can't afford the commercial but at the same time of course parasitic infections that are transmitted by fecal contamination over a commonplace and actually be tracked away from the people's livelihood keeps them out of school and children and the actually important or not to achieve their maximum what that would involve so i think for that reason for many others through the primaries where these people have not been able to write a blog for settings because their compromise or no objections on one way to prevent that cause fertile farming there's an important ones are basically employment report which makes use of nutrients in water or no technological development into a growing the barrio employable to be together in a large building the

picture you can keep up you would you speak about vertical farming in the guard to land use and environmental issues of course more than a big advantage of doing a piece where of course is that you could contemplate giving land back to nature that it's probably useful for me by that was he referring to the tropical rainforest that are being cut them in favor of flesh and performing those poor people have no other choice but to do it that way but given the pictures are simply creating music brickell structures and thirty employees people want to support you could allow the tropical rainforests we go back on their own basically between quest for places where deforestation has given way to farm for competitive for leaving political reform and that's created twenty where the hardwood floors that were

watching what would a vertical farm look like you've alluded to that but would you see more her fourteen american republic of parable and more than forty points tours like a hipsters two all maternal grandmother these were questions big question of the approach to using the whole building with the island there are other alternatives are you better from plastics are being used now for kindergarten as well including football league question of course you have to go your lawn what we would probably growing marie why what was on what custody for supplying the necessary energy to remember what it's worth because you're using this online or no way to report things like

treason parabolic mirrors are getting right into the building with the white house recommendations of the building that's true for all anywhere where you have the top earners who can't afford it would be obsolete in other situations like some extreme situation of course you couldn't float you just dig down a little bit to get all he can possibly use the turbans to the making electricity for the crow i thought that situation that could run an entirely and still be off the energy grid just because you're using teachers and resource center of the earth there're such a creative artist sol ritual from all drugs have all our solution to offset the cost of the education we generate in order to make these endorsements will officially but the starwood you have people approach

connections to build new things about doing the first of those issues will be addressed in those projects what about the great question because you know that sort of practical of the strawberries and tomatoes they don't think i'm going to wear a living next to a farm family were going to be there for a few of the project we had a checklist of things they could be grown indoors and then they have the grown indoors to and surprisingly large waste that goes on for several pages worth of produce and it includes things like coffee and tea wine grapes and what kinds of products that you don't possibly imagine anyone thinking of putting in situation and yet they're not only dig into and there

you can find vegetable like green beans and how much interest there were developed to a point where that matter we wouldn't be proud to be generated quickly well i think who you can be applied to train their green voting of carbon from the atmosphere are growing bigger by american progress for america jordan sputtered on purpose by pruning the trees will continue the groups will continue to grow and continue to sequester carbon her lawyer oh sure we're real

and i'm not suggesting in any of that for the adults in tailor make plants reenter wife rather than supporting the storm like a lot of course the ones we need that overworked already an old technology i'm diane horn and my guess is defined a primary author of the book the vertical farm feeding the world in the twenty first century and your jim to the sustainability segment of mind over matters and katie eckstein it point we have them and on the web add k e x p dowd orgy which you say more about the use of water on a vertical farm and how much would be required if you're working people walk into a large container

of water in portland oregon what we need we need to point three years ago and we use over seventy percent of our fresh water liquid to grow food so useful purpose in revolt it's no longer usable after the court will issue with farming and irrigation harder particularly important for thirty percent less water out of the arrow particular version on the harder part for you to thirty percent less water and harder part of what we go through war which we would of course not be able to record so would you explain more about their opponents but that technology actually is probably harder part of important nutrients don't know what you were water on the bottom of the pole which contain the flow of nutrients to the

plant roots of hang down into the solution as it gently trickle down the pipe and leading korean war and the question of upward for overweight if you took them and then they get into an autumn morning spray much perfume world the weekend that you can help yourself to get you know a modern myth of nutrient laden water and that's one that no corporate politics and that leap technology and other space agencies are looking through the precious quality of water that you have to play with you if you would go from more than you can afford the funding formula of using a lot of water just to prove your point one of advantage i hear you spoke about the energy for vertical farms how does the energy needed for a vertical farm compare with energy

needed for traditional farming laurie wish i could answer second herd as many versions of the answer to that question as you can possibly get from people that are supportive of the voters she and i will be watching and that's what's left over to it's an impossible situation which you can't possibly match without performing for one it's free and it's so much of a plan to use about two percent of incomes between the extreme you can't do it in an extremely difficult and one of the real answer to that question and the very reason why i am supporting the development of prototypical political forms first to explore configuration of buildings the kinds of what you might want to use your they'll go through and that you know what you imagined and sergey wouldn't be a confederation there for the taking but i think it might look like that might be one of those other places where you've got

lots of wearing a harness and it would also be energy political matter how intense the energy usage can be really are you letting the commissioner and there's one final source of energy than a mutt nation that is in a lecture course his workshop in terms of energy the most sectarian on the joe the plumber through and if you were to drive down to completion and then it would be an energy rich fuels stores and we're going into a world that we are very hard ultimately if we start talking about the energy pushing for if you're part of the energy walked over their own excrement forests the wealthy having ecological and i think that the record for me to have a political behavior saw in nature and you know

started and so that's the reason we're looking at having the same fashion we begin with food production and if you do that you have to look at what happened the future food because that's what happened to his world filled with edible think of the energy budget for political farming will come when we finally realized that always points to serve as the basis for the generations of the energy needed to actually make a difference and to delve vehicle sirens come to america you are pretty famous for her marriage would ever for you and rio an income property everything you have to look very hard and in europe for instance we have from people with better forced to abandon property rights for spot and we've never been able to find another use for the web developers moving so why throw all

that familiar with what even wave token you hear we could easily broke apart from square to replant the conflict in the workplace if you're going to cut chicago in the ricardo in the old days used to be the hub of the process and it was part of the political supporters and for parents are still available or not they have not been built over and there's a lot of open space that chicagoans would dedicate to urban farming development torture still have some of the kind of wonderland swirl and all of the property there to slow growth and it was all the big cities didn't have family's property whether someone were to come along with apologies to protect deployed way you can very very very low

how expensive lead to produce or food produced by a vertical farm the comparative typical problems you know all over the camp a performing characterised produce all year tortured under farmer <unk> advantage of winters where no matter what the situation in the outdoors indoors you put a restriction on food world records we generated walk hard the focus really is a fossil fuel use and wine producing something they want from cornell university's oral culture quite terribly and indoor hydroponic one generates sixty four was pre square foot per year that's a lot of water and they believe the records almost surely collection of different problem simply by making a vehicle or in the high end restaurant center for many years

i think but you can tell all but you don't know how much a couple who was cooking the local subsidy the price of fossil fuels and i think at least twenty percent of fossil fuel you have to be a question of a problem priest who was sort of nobody could afford to vote on purpose in the world we can actually converse you are listening to the sustainability segment of mind over matters and he adds the seattle ninety point three of them and on the web add k x p dowd orgy i'm diane warren in my guest is did send a palm bay author of the book the vertical farm feeding the world in the twenty first century what fraction of our food needs could be potentially meant by vertical fines in europe another one

question we answered to it would be dependent upon the culture that you are addressing with vegetables in general you can also raise fish or torture situation you can read more from stations like shrimp lobsters and quicker to commercial interests and from other crops that you quote plants could be different for these particular animal collective are grieving for food in question here the character one look if you have company calories for a person could be grown indoors for a very long time before i would guess that if you needed a fifteen hundred calories you could generate a thousand calories laurie are big handsome

wooden floor that animals are considered like cattle sheep the question becomes warranted featuring a couple of things that we know we can grow indoors you could probably get sixty percent of which the verb newfield who is likely to benefit the most from creation of arms low iq traditional political respect to the heart of public health by having virtual and people but i would like most farmers want one of those people would have no hope of whoever was talking about disadvantaged groups of people were like dark or whole countries in north africa that local community their crops or enormous number of people living in large city in places like india and china that

have twitter the purple heart border war i mean a lot of years and i think you were very particular about thoughtful every hand goes up and it's incredible how many people who you would never suspect that began ten years ago a greek chorus five years ago the day of the members so hard and the girls are so rich in terms of generally include these companies i think they were doing one kirk who you are obese or do you

really have to be interviewed for the report how close orally to building the first critical foreign oil your heart set to go into a new multimillion dollar version of this of the probes have suggested a little low on a budget and given that will allen approach to producing food and people may be familiar with well alan initiatives in milwaukee that group have broken off from his original farming initiatives and formed a company which has a real possibility of creating a five story six month thing and you won't vote for him and what do you see as the key challenges to overcome in the

development and vertical farming ownership and greater use your problem through the barrier and worship or recovery package for puerto rico but i know that you can present a realistic business model to investors will turn the other opportunities so to convince people that this is a worthwhile investment not just the short term one troublesome i think the biggest difficulty of getting these prototypes establishment the programs for the federal funding and a lot of private investment and promises when something pleased with regrets probably why it generated some of these prototypes and get them up and running soon because i think that what they are more work for me

overall what kind of response are you getting to the idea of vertical farms well nobody quote unquote mario what do you see as disadvantages to vertical farms are family run a lot of people running now become an urban activity and ignore their own network is one of the farmers are going out of the notion of who could form in general because of course oil do to you how to plug a thrilling wouldn't were a couple of big migration in

areas china people were not one so that's one issue the draft just the thing with anything about farming and their confidence in order for me to prove to the forming a journalist not the fate of instruments around for twelve years were facing major problems of sustainability with regards to the korean war or vacations so i think that in the long term give another twelve thousand years only twenty four thousand years of history in a long time didn't actually preacher think the biggest challenge will be how can we preserve food in a way that doesn't spoil recall what you want and they were forced to rethink the wall first

i'm doing well so he believes that current conventional farming is going to disappear entirely a great traditional farming warriors' victory in one of the gritty can do with your body foreman has produced don't disagree or with a heart but i think for the movie comedy we are changing hands you rule here and you live in florida we cover who agree to me that i'm clear on that group sorting through the grooves of change and you are compromised up to forty percent of where you can now so it will be restricted by restricting it the price of who they will be walkout particular house

that particular many groups in the case what steps need to be taken to help develop medical science you know it comes back to the project but we need federal funding from which politicians of loyola college in your uterus you know years ago she wore huge boeing corporation could make a lot of partnership and getting together and saying we approach lead to work on we could probably generate a lot of interesting and performing with him he still couldn't write a good foundation says well a lot of people in portland where a discussion on another part of the problem here people oregon or won't listen to this because any new industry would address job opportunities in employment options for putting people are now back to work and of

course so much the better what's the message you like to leave our listeners that world about what you and i wanna leave it were true but i wake up one day and i called my grandkids my great grandkids are over thirty three years letting some of sitting here soon you have just been listening to dixon de palma yanni author of the book the vertical farm feeding the world in the twenty first century published in two thousand and ten by thomas dunne books for more information check on the web at daddy daddy daddy about vertical farm daikon again that's vertical farm dot com the sustainability segment of mind over matters program you've just heard will be on the streaming archives section of katie excuse website at expedia orgy for the next fourteen days and diane warren thanks for listening and be sure to tune in to the sustainability segment again next week and any point three of them and he adds he got

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