New Mexico in Focus; 551; UNM President Robert Frank

>> PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON. "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS," THE NATION'S LARGEST WILDFIRE IS ABLAZE IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AND THERE'S A TROUBLING BLOWUP AT A FIRE NEARBY. >> I AM NOT SURE THAT TAKING AIM AT THE FIRE SERVICE OFFICIALS IS THE RIGHT APPROACH RIGHT NOW ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO. >> AND THE NEW PRESIDENT OF UNM BOB FRANK. >> THE LOVE AND THE CONVICTION AND INVESTMENT IN THE UNIVERSITY IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT. >> "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" STARTS NOW. >> THIS WEEK IN AN ENTRANCE INTERVIEW OF SORTS, WE ASK NEW UNM PRESIDENT ROBERT G. FRANK ABOUT HIS VISION FOR THE STATE'S LARGEST UNIVERSITY, THE BALANCE BETWEEN ACADEMICS AND ATHLETICS, AND WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST STUDENTS AND FACULTY IN NEW MEXICO. THE LINE PARSES THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION INTO A MEXICAN DRUG CARTEL'S MONEY LAUNDERING SCHEME. IT CULMINATED THIS WEEK IN A

RAID ON A NEW MEXICO HORSE TRACK. THE LINE ALSO EXAMINES THE RIFT BETWEEN SOME REPUBLICANS AND OUR REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR. WE'LL GO ON THE CLOCK, TOO. BUT, FIRST, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS, IT SEEMS NEW MEXICANS HAVE AWAKENED AT SOME POINT THIS SPRING TO THE SMELL OF SMOKE. HUNDREDS OF SQUARE MILES HAVE BURNED AND CREWS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE HERE TO HELP CONTAIN THE WILDFIRES THAT SOME SAY COULD HAVE BEEN NIPPED IN THE BUD. "THE LINE" NOW ON THE FIGHT OVER FOREST FIRES. >> RETURNING THIS WEEK, REGULAR PANELIST AND FORMER HOUSE REPUBLICAN WHIP DAN FOLEY. ACROSS THE TABLE FROM DAN, LOCAL REPORTER OF THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN, TRIP JENNINGS. LAURA SANCHEZ RETURNS ONCE MORE, ENVIRONMENTAL ATTORNEY AND DEMOCRAT. AND A FAMILIAR FACE WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN A WHILE, WHITNEY WAITE OF THE WAITE COMPANY. SHE USED TO BE HERE A LONG TIME AGO. NICE TO SEE YOU HERE AGAIN. CONGRESSMAN STEVE PEARCE FOR FIRED OFF AN EDITORIAL EARLIER THIS MONTH CRITICIZING THE FOREST SERVICE FOR ITS MANAGEMENT POLICIES. THEY DON'T ALLOW ENOUGH LOGGING, THAT WAS KIND OF THE

ARGUMENT. THAT IS OKAY. WHEN THE LITTLE BEAR FIRE BLEW UP OVER THE WEEKEND, SO DID MR. PEARCE. LAURA, CAN THE FOREST SERVICE REALLY FIND SOME MIDDLE GROUND HERE WITH ADVOCATES LIKE MR. PEARCE. THIS IS NOT A NEW ARGUMENT. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR LOTS OF YEARS. SHOULD WE MOVE ON FROM THE CLEAR CUTTING IDEA OR IS IT VALID? THIS SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE. THERE SHOULD BE A DISCUSSION BUT NOT JUST IN REACTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING BUT IN PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE. SO, MEANING, WHAT CAN WE DO LONG-TERM TO ADDRESS THE FACT WE HAVE SUCH A DRY AREA, LIKE A TINDER BOX IN MOST OF NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW. I DO THINK THAT IT WAS A LITTLE HEAVY HANDED IN TERMS OF WHAT THE CONGRESSMAN DID. I THINK THERE WERE REPORTS OF A PARTICULAR MEETING WHERE IT GOT VERY TENSE AND I THINK THAT I AM NOT SURE THAT TAKING AIM AT THE FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS IS THE RIGHT APPROACH RIGHT NOW ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY ARE TRAINED TO DO, WHAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE DOING, AND I THINK THEY REACTED BASED ON WHAT INFORMATION THEY HAD AT THE TIME AND AVAILABLE RESOURCES. IT IS WORTH RAISING ISSUES AND

QUESTIONS THAT HE RAISED BUT I AM NOT SURE DOING IT IN SUCH A HEAVY HANDED APPROACH, IT CERTAINLY GOT MEDIA ATTENTION BUT DOESN'T SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS. >> YOU'RE A FORMER REP FROM THAT PART OF THE STATE, YOU UNDERSTAND WILDFIRES DOWN THERE, AND SO DOES MR. PEARCE CERTAINLY. THERE SEEMS TO BE AN OFF SEASON FOR THESE AND EVERYTHING SEEMS TO GO QUIET. IN YOUR VIEW DID THE LEGISLATURE ATTACK THIS IN A VIGOROUS ENOUGH MANNER THIS PAST SESSION AND TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS? NOT JUST A STATE ISSUE. IT IS CLEARLY A FEDERAL ISSUE. FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T THINK CONGRESSMAN PEARCE TALKED ABOUT CLEAR CUTTING. YOU HEAR THE WORD CLEAR CUTTING AND PEOPLE THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GO IN AND CUT DOWN EVERY TREE ON THE HILL. YOU HAVE A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE UP IN THAT AREA, WITH THE WAY MESCALERO APACHES HANDLE THEIR FOREST RIGHT NEXT TO THE NATIONAL FOREST. THEY LOOK NIGHT AND DAY. MESCALEROS MANAGE THEIR FOREST, THEY LOG IN THEIR FOREST.

THEY DO IT THE CORRECT WAY. THEY HAVE GOOD HEALTHY TREES AND WHEN THEY HAVE A FIRE, IT PRETTY MUCH STAYS CONTAINED. YOU CAN GO RIGHT TO THE LINE AND SEE WHERE THE NATIONAL FOREST IS AND IT IS GROSSLY OVERGROWN. AND, LAURA IS RIGHT, WE HAVE GOT A DRY PROBLEM, WE HAVE GOT PEOPLE LIVING THERE AND YET WE DON'T HAVE WAYS TO MANAGE THE FOREST, AND I THINK AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT ALLOWING FOLKS TO GO IN AND LOG, ALLOWING FOLKS TO LOG RESPONSIBLY, NOT CLEAR CUTTING, NOT UPROOTING EVERYTHING, BUT BUILDING ROADS, UTILIZING THE RESOURCES THAT ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY, AND MAKE REVENUE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY DO AT MESCALERO APACHES, YOU'RE HELPING PREVENT DISASTERS FROM HAPPENING. WE'RE NOT GOING TO STOP WILDFIRES. THERE IS A GENTLEMAN NAMED SID GOODLOE. YOU OUGHT TO GET HIM ON ONE OF YOUR SHOWS ONE DAY. HE HAS DONE THIS PHENOMENAL PIECE WHERE HE OWNS A BIG RANCH DOWN THERE AND HAS PICTURES TAKEN OVER 150 YEARS AGO ON THE RANCH AND HE HAS GONE BACK TO THE SAME SPOT AND TAKEN PICTURES IN MODERN DAY AND THOSE PICTURES 150 YEARS AGO, THERE IS COUPLE OF TREES AND JUST ACRES OF WILD GRASS.

TODAY, THERE IS NO GRASS IT IS ALL TREES. AND SO IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THE MANAGEMENT HAS NOT REALLY SUCCEEDED AND THAT IS WHAT HAS FED THE PROBLEM AND CONGRESSMAN PEARCE I THINK IS UPSET BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING HE HAS TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS DOWN THERE. IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS ONLY AN ISSUE WHEN THE FIRE COMES. ONCE THE FIRE IS OUT, EVERYONE WORRIES ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. >> DAN SAID IT IS NOT NECESSARILY JUST A STATE ISSUE OR NECESSARILY JUST A FEDERAL ISSUE, THERE HAS TO BE A MEETING IN THE MIDDLE HERE SOMEWHERE. WHERE DOES THE STATE COME UP SHORT IN YOUR VIEW? WHERE DO THE FEDS COME UP SHORT? >> I WONDER AT SOME POINT, IF PEOPLE WHO ARE TRUSTED BY BOTH SIDES. I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE BUT I WONDER IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN GET PEOPLE TO AGREE TO THE COMMON GROUND? THERE PROBABLY ARE BUT THIS IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE OUT WEST. I SAY THAT AS SOMEBODY WHO CAME FROM BACK EAST AND WHEN I HEAR NUMBERS THAT ARE PUT UP, 289,000, THE WHITEWATER BALDY

FIRE. AND NOW THIS, 37,000 ACRES, LITTLE BEAR, IT STILL KIND OF STRETCHES MY BRAIN, BUT, IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT IS LIKE TWO BIG ISSUES ARE CLASHING, THIS KIND OF LIKE MANAGEMENT AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU DO HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS. I THINK THIS IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE AND I WONDER IF THERE ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE WHO CAN TALK TO BOTH SIDES WITH A LOT OF TRUST FROM BOTH SIDES. >> THE ISSUE IS TRUST, INTERESTING, I LIKE THAT YOU USE THAT WORD. AND WHITNEY IT IS AN INTERESTING THING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AGENCIES, YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND THIS A LOT AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES DON'T NECESSARILY TRUST EACH OTHER ALL THAT WELL. SO IT IS A REAL DILEMMA. I ASK AGAIN, IS THE STATE, HOWEVER, ON THE HOOK HERE A LITTLE BIT IN YOUR VIEW ON CONGRESSMAN PEARCE'S IDEA? IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AS A STATE TO GET THIS >> I THINK HE IS DOING IT.

CONGRESSMAN PEARCE UNDERSTOOD THAT BECAUSE THE FIRE BLEW ITS BOUNDARIES, THAT IT WAS -- EVERYBODY'S WATCHING. IF HE JUST SAID, WELL, THIS IS REALLY A SAD THING, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT ONCE YOU GET THE FIRE OUT, HE WOULDN'T HAVE THE ISSUE AT THE FOREFRONT, WHICH HE HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT SINCE, AS DAN SAID, I REMEMBER HIS RACE BACK IN 2002 AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE TO HIM. HE UNDERSTANDS -- >> IN THE LEGISLATURE. >> FOR HIM, THIS HAS BEEN PART OF HIS POLITICAL CAREER FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. AND HE CARES AND I HAVE TO ADMIT, I THINK THAT THERE WERE THINGS GOING ON ON THE GROUND THAT WEREN'T QUITE AS BAD AS IT CAME OUT WHEN EVERYBODY WAS HACKING PEARCE FOR HAVING VOICED HIS OPINION ABOUT IT BUT I AM GLAD THAT HE DID. I THINK IT HEIGHTENED THE DISCUSSION QUICKLY AND IT NEEDS TO BE DONE, NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND IF OUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AREN'T GOING TO BE MAKING THE NOISE, WHO IS? >> THE PRESIDENT, IN FACT, ON WEDNESDAY SIGNED FOR SOME PLANES, WHERE WE HAVE MORE PLANES TO FIGHT THE FIRES. ONE THING THAT WAS INTERESTING TO ME ABOUT MR. PEARCE'S STAND, AND I WANT TO ASK ALL YOU GUYS THIS TOO, BUT I

THOUGHT HE MADE AN INTERESTING POINT ABOUT WHEN THAT FIRE WAS SITTING THERE AT 12 ACRES, IT COULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH. IT JUST WENT THROUGH THE ROOF AND BLEW OFF, AS DAN MENTIONED, WE HAD THIS WHOLE BIG PROBLEM. SHOULD WE SEE A BETTER REACTION, THE TEAM, WHEN THESE THINGS ARE AT 12, 15, 100 ACRES AND NOT LET THEM GET TO 280,000 PLUS? DID HE HAVE A POINT THERE? >> CERTAINLY, WHEN IT WAS -- I THINK EVERYBODY CAN AGREE WHEN IT IS SMALLER, YOU WANT TO GET ON IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE BUT IT WASN'T THE ONLY FIRE HAPPENING AT THAT TIME AND IT CERTAINLY WASN'T THE BIGGEST PRIORITY FOREST SERVICE HAD AT THE TIME IN DEALING WITH THE FOREST FIRES IN NEW MEXICO. >> IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER IF YOU HAD JUST LOST YOUR HOME? >> OF COURSE NOT, BUT I WILL SAY THIS, THEY ALSO TALKED TO THE OFFICIALS THAT WERE IN CHARGE OF THAT. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT WEEKEND, THERE IS ALWAYS -- >> THAT IS MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING. IT IS EASY TO SIT BACK AND SAY YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS AT 12,000 ACRES. DO I THINK THE FOREST SERVICE

SAID WE DON'T CARE ABOUT RUIDOSO. DO I THINK THE FOREST SERVICE SAID, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO STOP THIS. NO WE'RE NOT. I THINK THEY MADE THE BEST DECISION THEY COULD MAKE WITH THE INFORMATION THEY HAD LIKE LAURA SAID AT THE TIME. >> BUT IT IS NOT THEY WERE JUST SITTING THERE WAITING TO SEE IF IT WAS GOING TO GO OUT. BASICALLY THEY ARE SAYING THEY HAD THE FIRE SURROUNDED AND THAT WHILE THE HUMIDITY WAS HIGH, THEY WERE GOING TO LET IT BURN ITSELF OUT. THAT IS PART OF FOREST MANAGEMENT. THEY MADE THE DECISION BASED ON CONDITIONS TO LET IT BURN ITSELF OUT. THE PROBLEM WAS WINDS KICKED UP AND IT BLEW OUTSIDE THE BOUNDARIES. >> IS IT A MANPOWER ISSUE? NO ONE EXPECTS 20 FIRES AT ONCE, BUT THREE. >> 12,000 ACRES. YOU HAVE GOT TO BRING -- WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY TOOK 2,000 PEOPLE OFF THE ME GILA FIRE AND MOVED THEM UP TO STAND AROUND RUIDOSO. YOU WOULD HEAR ABOUT, OKAY, WE ONLY CARE ABOUT THE RICH OIL TEXAS GUYS. >> DO WE NEED MORE TANKERS? >> WE NEED MORE OF EVERYTHING, BECAUSE CLEARLY, THIS IS A PROBLEM AND WHEN YOU GOT PEOPLE -- THESE PLANES ARE FLYING 18, 20 HOUR MISSIONS ALL OVER THE WESTERN U.S. TO FIGHT FIRES, CLEARLY, THERE IS AN ISSUE THERE.

THE PROBLEM IS, HOW DO YOU FUND THE STUFF FOR 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR? FIRE SEASON IS THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AND THE REST OF THE YEAR IT IS NOT NEARLY AS BIG A PROBLEM. SO I THINK THE FOREST SERVICE, IN ALL DUE HONESTY, THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD. THEY ARE TRYING THE BEST THEY CAN. THOSE MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE PUTTING THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE SHOULD BE APPRECIATED AND GIVEN KUDOS FOR STANDING OUT THERE. THEY ARE SOMETIMES THE ONLY PEOPLE STANDING BETWEEN THE FIRE AND A HOME, AND I DON'T THINK CONGRESSMAN PEARCE WAS AFTER THEM. HE WAS AFTER THE BUREAUCRACY THAT PREVENTS THINGS FROM BEING DONE WHEN EVERYBODY ON THE GROUND SAYS IT SHOULD BE DONE, AND SOMETIMES YOU GOT TO WAIT FOR THAT PHONE CALL TO COME FROM SOMEBODY ON HIGH, WHEN YOU SHOULD BE GIVING THE AUTHORITY TO THE GUY RIGHT THERE THAT IS OUT THERE FIGHTING IT EVERYDAY; GIVE HIM THE AUTHORITY. >> ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS A PATH TO HOMES. THERE WAS THAT MOMENT ONE ACCOUNT WENT FROM 110 UP TO 224, KIND OF CAUGHT EVERYBODY BY SURPRISE. EXCEPT IF YOU WERE DOWN THERE. YOU KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON. >> IT COMES RIGHT INTO THE TOWN OF RUIDOSO, SO YOU ALWAYS HAVE STRUCTURES. >> BACK IN A MOMENT WITH NEW UNM PRESIDENT BOB FRANK. >> THESE GUYS ARE NO JOKES, IF

YOU DID THINK THAT THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING, ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE PERSON LIVING IN RUIDOSO TO SAY, HEY, LOCAL RUIDOSO SHERIFF, I THINK SHE IS THE ONE DOING THIS STUFF. HE'LL SAY, HEY, DAN FOLEY TOLD ME. A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN GOING, WELL, I AM NOT GOING TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. >> ROBERT FRANK IS THE 21ST PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO. ALSO A HOME TOWN KID, A PRODUCT OF UNM FOR ALL THREE OF HIS DEGREES INCLUDING A DOCTORATE IN PSYCHOLOGY AND A PRODUCT OF LAS CRUCES SCHOOLS GROWING UP. WELCOME. GLAD YOU'RE HERE. >> PLEASURE TO BE HERE. >> YOU ARE ALSO SPENDING TIME ON A LISTENING TOUR RIGHT NOW. YOU SAID COMING IN, YOU WANTED TO SPEND A FEW MONTHS, AS MANY AS FOUR MONTHS, GETTING AROUND TO DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES AND LEARNING. WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD SO FAR AND WHAT PLEASES YOU FROM WHAT YOU >> THE BEST PART OF WHAT I

HAVE HEARD IS THAT WHILE EVERYBODY HAS A STORY, SOMETHING THEY DON'T LIKE ABOUT UNM, THEY ALL HAVE A DEEP, DEEP FAITH, OPTIMISM, AND CONVICTION THAT UNM IS IMPORTANT TO THEIR LIVES SO THE LOVE AND CONVICTION AND INVESTMENT IN THE UNIVERSITY IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT IN MY VIEW AND THAT HAS BEEN VERY ENCOURAGING TO ME. >> HAVE YOU FOUND ANY COMMONALITIES OF ISSUES THAT CONCERN YOU? HAVE YOU HEARD DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ALL SORT OF ADD UP TO THE SAME ISSUE FOR YOU? >> NOTHING I HADN'T ALREADY HEARD PARTS ABOUT. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OUR STUDENTS GRADUATING, THAT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE AT EVERY UNIVERSITY ACROSS THE U.S., SO WE'RE NOT UNIQUE IN THAT REGARD. THE OTHER ISSUES TEND TO BE SEGMENTED TO THE KIND OF INTERACTIONS THAT PERSON HAS HAD. >> YOU HINTED AT PROGRAMS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE COMING IN AND I WOULD IMAGINE FOR EVERY UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT COMING IN THERE IS AN INITIAL BURST OF ENERGY. YOU WANT TO PUT DOWN SOME PROGRAMS AND MAKE A MARK RIGHT AWAY. ARE YOU CLEAR ANYTHING YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO DO AS SOON

AS YOU GET FULLY ESTABLISHED, YOU JUST KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE CHANGES ON A VERY CERTAIN THING? >> THE MOST CLEAR THING TODAY IS INCREASING NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS AT UNM. WE HAVE 800. MOST PUBLIC RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES HAVE MANY MORE THAN THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, UCLA HAS 5,000. WE CERTAINLY NEED MORE AND THE REASON -- THERE IS SEVERAL REASONS. THE FIRST REASON IS THAT NOT EVERY KID THAT GOES TO UNM OR NONTRADITIONAL STUDENTS TOO ARE GOING TO HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO GO ABROAD AND INTERACT AND GET A GLOBAL EXPERIENCE. IN TODAY'S WORLD THE COMPETITORS WE HAVE ARE IN SHANGHAI, TOKYO, THE PHILIPPINES, AS WELL AS TUCSON AND OKLAHOMA CITY. SO, OUR STUDENTS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE BROAD WORLD AND THE BEST WAY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN, SO ALL STUDENTS HAVE INTERACTION EXPERIENCE, IS TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A REASONABLE SIZE INTERNATIONAL POPULATION HERE ON CAMPUS. INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS CREATE A KIND OF DIVERSITY WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF, ONE OF THE FEW THINGS WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF IN TERMS OF DIVERSITY HERE. INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS OFTEN HAVE A STRONG INTEREST IN SOME OF THE AREAS WE ARE INTERESTED

IN GROWING, SO THEY HELP US GROW THOSE AREAS AS WELL. WE WILL CLEARLY GROW THE INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING VERY QUICKLY. >> DO YOU HAVE A NUMBER IN MIND? IS THERE A TARGET? >> WELL, NOT ABSOLUTE TARGET, THAT IS PART OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ASCERTAIN. CLEARLY WE SHOULD BE ABOVE 2,000 AND 2500. WE HAVE TO DO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS AND WE HAVE TO MAKE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT SUPPORTS KIDS THAT AREN'T FROM HERE. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THERE IS FOOD AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS SERVED 365 DAYS A YEAR. THEY DON'T GO HOME FOR CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS, SUMMERS. SO WE EXTEND THE PROGRAM, A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS THAT COME ALONG WITH THIS. >> THEY PAY FULL TUITION. >> THEY DO, ABSOLUTELY DO. IT HELPS -- >> ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES FOR ANY PRESIDENT IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT RECEIVES FROM THE LEGISLATURE VERSUS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, ITS ABILITY TO BE SELF SUSTAINING AND PRESSURE INSIDE OF THAT OF COURSE IS PRESSURE TO KEEP TUITION LOW BECAUSE THAT IS AN EASY WAY TO BE SELF SUSTAINING IS TO RAISE TUITION. ANY EARLY CLUES HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH THE LEGISLATURE IN YOUR FIRST

SESSION UP THERE? DO YOU HAVE AN OVERALL MESSAGE YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT? >> WELL, THE FIRST MESSAGE IS WE NEED TO RECOVER SOME OF THE MONEY WE LOST DURING THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS. WE HAD SIGNIFICANT -- ALL THE UNIVERSITIES DID -- UNM TOOK A BIG CHUNK OF LOSSES, WE'RE AT 2007 LEVELS RIGHT NOW. SO, WE NEED TO GET SOME MONEY BACK SO THAT OUR BASELINE IS HIGHER. THE SECOND THING WE'LL SAY TO LEGISLATORS, IS WE WERE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE FUNDING FORMULA. YOU PUT THE FORMULA IN PLACE, WE ARE GOING TO PERFORM, WE ALREADY ARE, WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE AND WILLING TO BE ACCOUNTABLE IN THE FUTURE, WE'LL SHOW WE CAN DO THE THINGS YOU WANT OF US. THIRD, WE'LL SAY, UNM CAN DO GREAT THINGS FOR THE STATE IF YOU GIVE US THE SUPPORT IT TAKES TO INITIATE PROGRAMS. >> WERE YOU AN ATHLETE? >> A SWIMMER. >> VARSITY SWIMMER. DID YOU WIN ANYTHING? >> I DID OKAY DURING THE TIME I WAS HERE BUT I HAD THE FORTUNE TO SWIM WITH A GREAT SWIMMERS SO OUR TEAM WAS VERY COMPETITIVE AT THE TIME. >> AS YOU KNOW ATHLETICS IS, OF COURSE, CRITICAL TO A UNIVERSITY.

IT CAN ALSO BE A FINANCIAL BOON. IT CAN BE A FINANCIAL DRAIN. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS. YOU'RE SENSE OF WHAT WE HAVE GONE THROUGH HERE THE LAST COUPLE OF OR THREE YEARS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS UNIVERSITY AND WHAT WE HAVE SPENT ON ATHLETICS AND THE RETURN WE HAVE GOTTEN FROM ATHLETICS, EITHER FROM AN ATHLETIC POINT OF VIEW OR FROM NOTORIETY FOR THE ENTIRE UNIVERSITY, ARE WE ON THE RIGHT TRACK THERE? ARE YOU ANTICIPATING A NEW APPROACH ON ATHLETICS? >> I THINK ATHLETICS TODAY AT UNM IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK. WE ARE AT THIS MOMENT. THE LAST YEARS HAVE BEEN TORTUROUS. THEY HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT, THEY HAVE BEEN PAINFUL, CHALLENGING. THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF INTROSPECTION AND ANGER BUT I THINK THAT IS BEHIND US AS BEST I CAN SEE. WE HAVE A GREAT ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, WHO IS THE PRIDE OF OUR COMMUNITY AND HE HAS BROUGHT COACHES HERE WHO ARE FIRST RATE. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT VALUES. THEY VALUE ACADEMICS AND COMPETITION AND THEY ARE PUSHING OUR STUDENTS IN THE RIGHT WAY AND STUDENT ATHLETES, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECORD HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, HAVE EXTRAORDINARY PERFORMANCE.

THEY ARE GRADUATING, THEY ARE GETTING GOOD GRADES AND WE HAVE BUILT STUDENTS SUPPORT SERVICES THAT ARE STRONG. I THINK ATHLETICS ARE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. >> PARSE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE. WE HAVE THE TOP TIER ATHLETIC PROGRAMS, FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL. YOU HAVE GOT THINGS LIKE SWIMMING AND GOLF AND THAT KIND OF THING. YOU'RE SENSE OF, PERHAPS, EVEN TITLE IX SPORTS, TRADITIONAL TITLE IX SPORTS, ARE WE GIVING UP TOO MUCH TO THE BIGGER HIGH PROFILE PROGRAMS AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER THINGS OR IS THERE SOME WORK TO DO? >> THERE ARE TRADE-OFFS WE MAKE IN THE ATHLETIC WORLD AND I THINK THERE ARE PLACES WE CAN DO MORE AT UNM. PART OF WHAT I WANT TO DO DURING THIS TOUR YOU TALKED ABOUT IS LEARN MORE ABOUT WHERE THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE IN JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE WE ARE IN GOOD SHAPE, BUT THERE IS MORE WE CAN DO AND I WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THOSE THINGS. I WOULDN'T PRETEND TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO TODAY, BUT THE OLYMPIC SPORTS AS THEY ARE NOW CALLED, USUALLY, IN A VERY NICE TERM OF PHRASE, THEY BRING A LOT OF RICHES TO THE CAMPUS AND WE

WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE MOST WE CAN. IN FACT WE HAVE EXTRAORDINARY RECORD OF CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP IN THOSE SPORTS. WE HAVE AN EXTRAORDINARY RECORD OF WINNING IN EVERY SPORT EXCEPT COLLEGE FOOTBALL AND WE HAVE MADE THE RIGHT STEPS TO TRY TO CORRECT THAT WITH THE NEW COACH. >> UNM GOLFER PLAYED IN THE U.S. OPEN THIS WEEKEND. IT HAPPENS. >> THERE ARE GREAT STORIES LIKE THAT IF YOU FOLLOW-UP WHAT HAPPENS TO THE KIDS THAT ARE HERE. >> WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO INCREASE STUDENT SUCCESS COMING INTO THE UNIVERSITY? >> OUR JOB IS TO TAKE WHAT IS THERE, MAKE SURE IT FLOWS VERY WELL AND GROW WHAT WE NEED TO AUGMENT IN THOSE KIND OF THINGS. SO, A LOT OF THE PIECES ARE THERE AND I THINK WE'LL SEE PROGRESS THIS YEAR. IT WILL REFLECT THE LEGACY OF WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND OUR JOB IS TO LOOK AT IT AND DO MORE. NEXT WEEK WE'RE BRINGING IN GEORGE KUH, PROBABLY THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSON IN THE U.S. ABOUT WHAT MAKES STUDENTS STAY IN COLLEGE; RETENTION. GEORGE IS GOING TO WORK WITH OUR LEADERSHIP GROUP AROUND ALL THE AREAS OF STUDENT SUCCESS, ABOUT HOW DO WE GET STUDENTS TO STAY.

TURNS OUT THE REASON THE STUDENTS STAY IS THEY ARE ENGAGED. THEY COME AND WORK AT THE TV STATION, AND BECOME PART OF THIS FAMILY. THEY BECOME AN ATHLETE. THEY GO TO THE SPANISH HONOR SOCIETY, BUT SOMETHING HOOKS THE STUDENT INTO THE UNIVERSITY. WE HAVE SO MANY STUDENTS THAT ARE WORKING FULL-TIME, TRYING TO BALANCE SCHOOL AND FULL-TIME LIFE THAT THE ENGAGEMENT BECOMES A CHALLENGE. WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO REACH OUT TO THEM AND FIND WAYS THEY CAN ENGAGE AND STILL BE AT THE UNIVERSITY. THAT IS THE AREA THAT I THINK OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS IN TODAY. >> THERE HAS BEEN TALK AND A WISH BY SOME FOLKS TO HAVE AN HONORS PROGRAM HERE AT UNM AS WELL FOR KIDS WHO ARE SUPER SHARP. WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEM TO OUT-OF-STATE SCHOOLS. DO YOU SUPPORT THAT IDEA, THAT PERHAPS, THIS IS A WAY TO KEEP REALLY BRIGHT KIDS WHO ARE NATIVE NEW MEXICAN IN NEW MEXICO DOING AN HONORS PROGRAM. >> THAT IS ONE OF THOSE ENGAGEMENT MODELS I TALKED ABOUT. THERE IS A GROUP OF STUDENTS THAT COME HERE THAT ARE MATURE, VERY FOCUSED ON SCHOOL, VERY READY TO ENGAGE AND THEY ARE READY FOR THE

CHALLENGES OF AN HONOR PROGRAM. OTHER STUDENTS AREN'T SO CLEAR ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE GOING, THEY WANDER A LITTLE BIT, THEY MAY NOT WANT TO BE IN THE HONORS PROGRAM, BUT FOR THAT FOCUSED STUDENT, HONORS PROGRAMS ARE THE RIGHT THINGS TO DO. THE STORIES IN THE PRESS WERE A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING BECAUSE THEY COMBINED THE COST OF A DORMITORY THAT WE PLAN TO BUILD, WHETHER WE PUT HONOR STUDENTS OR ANY OTHER GROUP OF STUDENTS IN THERE. THE COST OF THE HONORS COLLEGE, SO THE COSTS THAT HAVE BEEN, THAT WERE -- >> 80 MILLION. >> THAT IS THE COST OF THE DORMITORY THAT WE THINK WOULD ENHANCE THE HONORS COLLEGE BUT WE WANT THE STUDENTS TO COME TO UNM WHETHER WE BUILD THAT DORMITORY OR NOT. >> THERE IS AN ARGUMENT WE GOT TOP HEAVY AT THE VP CORE WITH PRESIDENT SCHMIDLEY, NOT YOUR PROBLEM, HOWEVER, PHILOSOPHICALLY, DO YOU FEEL YOU LIKE TO RUN THINGS A LITTLE BIT LEAN? DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TOO MANY VP'S AT THIS POINT? WHAT IS THE SENSE OF YOUR MANAGEMENT TEAM AS IT STANDS >> A COUPLE ISSUES. FIRST, LET'S REMEMBER, UNM

WHAT, 2.2 BILLION DOLLARS. WE ARE A HUGE ENTERPRISE, ENORMOUS. WE COVER, YOU KNOW, A HUGE SWATH OF THE STATE. WE RUN EVERY KIND OF BUSINESS YOU CAN IMAGINE FROM HOSPITALS TO LABS TO TRADITIONAL TEACHING PROGRAMS TO BRANCH CAMPUSES. IT IS A BIG PLACE. IT TAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE TO RUN IT AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE A BIT NARROW AND THEY THINK ABOUT US AS A LITTLE TINY ARTS AND SCIENCE COLLEGE WITH 4,000 STUDENTS THAT YOU CAN RUN WITH THE DEAN AND PRESIDENT AND SIT AROUND AND SMOKE CIGARS AND TELL STORIES. WE ARE NOT THAT. WE ARE COMPLEX, HUGE BUSINESS THAT HAS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A POSITIVE BOTTOM LINE TO EDUCATE THE STUDENTS WE WANT HERE. SO WE NEED GOOD SKILLED PEOPLE TO LEAD THAT. SO, PRESIDENT SCHMIDLEY WAS CRITICIZED FOR HAVING TOO MANY VICE PRESIDENTS AND WHAT THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IS THAT HE REDUCED THOSE NUMBERS SIGNIFICANTLY. I HAVE COME INTO A MUCH LEANER STAFF THAN HE HAD WHEN THE CRITICISM WAS LEVELED AT HIM THREE YEARS AGO. SO OVER TIME, HE CLEARLY NARROWED DOWN THE PEOPLE. I THINK WE YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE RIGHT BALANCE NOW. I HAVE LOOKED AT IT PRETTY CAREFULLY. I DON'T SEE AN EXCESS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING AROUND

WITHOUT MUCH TO DO. WE MIGHT WIND IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE BUT I DON'T ENVISION HUGE CHANGES. I FEEL LIKE PRESIDENT SCHMIDLEY HANDED ME A PRETTY GOOD STAFF. I LIKE THEM, THEY ARE SMART. THEY ARE COMPETENT, HARD WORKING, SO, I FEEL LIKE MY JOB IS TO FOCUS MORE WHAT CAN TO SERVE NEW MEXICO AND GET THE DIALOGUE OFF THE SORT OF INWARD FOCUS THAT HAS BEEN EXCESSIVE IN MY VIEW. >> EXCESSIVE, WHY? DO THINGS JUST HAPPEN INSIDE A BUBBLE? WHY DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE EXCESSIVE, THAT DISCUSSION? >> I THINK THERE ARE TIMES WHEN WE START TO TALK SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE UNIVERSITY, WE DON'T FOCUS ON WHAT THE UNIVERSITY IS GIVING THE STATE, WHAT MORE THE UNIVERSITY COULD GIVE THE STATE AND THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO IN ALBUQUERQUE AND IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO. THIS IS EXTRAORDINARY RICHNESS TO THE STATE THAT GETS CREATED BY US BEING ABLE TO EDUCATE A NEW GENERATION OF STUDENTS AND THE BUSINESSES WE CREATE, CORPORATIONS WE SPIN OFF, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT STC DOES,

INCUBATOR BUSINESS, THEY ARE SPINNING OFF 26, 28 BUSINESSES. THOSE BUSINESSES STAY IN NEW MEXICO, THEY HIRE PEOPLE, THEY START NEW JOBS, START NEW TECHNOLOGIES. ALL THESE THINGS ARE REALLY BIG THINGS AND WHEN WE GET TOO FOCUSED WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE SEVEN OR EIGHT VICE PRESIDENTS OUR FOUR, IT SEEMS TO ME THOSE ARE FAIR CRITICISMS. WE NEED TO ATTEND TO THEM. I FEEL A LOT OF ATTENTION WAS PAID TO THEM BY PRESIDENT SCHMIDLEY. I'LL ATTEND TO THEM BUT I DON'T WANT TO LOSE TRACK OF THE BIG PRIZE AND THAT IS WHAT NEW MEXICO CAN GAIN BY A HEALTHY, VIGOROUS, ACTIVE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO. >> YOU'RE WALKING INTO A SITUATION ABOUT TEACHER PAY THAT HAPPENS ON EVERY CAMPUS AS WELL. EVERY PROFESSOR WANTS TO BE PAID MORE. THAT IS FINE, THAT'S WHAT MAKES A UNIVERSITY GO. IN YOUR VIEW WHEN YOU LOOK AT A WIDE LENS, ARE OUR PROFESSORS PAID WELL ENOUGH AT THIS POINT? >> NO, THEY ARE UNDERPAID. I THINK BY ALMOST EVERY STANDARD WE LOOK AT, OUR FACULTY IS UNDER PAID. NOT AS UNDERPAID AS WE SOMETIMES GET THE EMOTIONAL

AFFECTIVE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS GOING, BUT THEY ARE UNDERPAID IN SOME FIELDS SIGNIFICANTLY. OUR COLLEGE OF ENGINEERING, COLLEGE OF BUSINESS. AND MEDICINE, THE COLLEGE OF MEDICINE IS AT THE 25TH PERCENTILE OF THE NATIONAL STANDARD, THE STANDARD AS WHAT WE SHOULD PAY PEOPLE. I DON'T THINK OUR PHYSICIANS ARE AT THE 25TH PERCENTILE. WE HAVE GREAT PHYSICIANS HERE. WE SHOULD BE TARGETING A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL. THAT SHOULDN'T BE WHAT WE LOOK FOR. I KNOW SALARIES ARE LOWER IN NEW MEXICO AND NEW MEXICO IS DIFFERENT BUT WE DON'T COMPETE IN NEW MEXICO. WE COMPETE ACROSS THE NATION, IN FACT, COMPETE ACROSS THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AND WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ATTRACT PEOPLE FROM NEW YORK, HOUSTON, SAN FRANCISCO HERE AND BE ABLE TO LOOK THEM IN THE EYE AND SAY YOU'RE GOING TO LIVE WELL HERE, YOU WORKED HARD TO GET YOUR DEGREE AND YOU'LL GIVE A LOT TO US. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US, CONGRATULATIONS. >> THANK YOU. >> COME BACK AND SEE US. >> THANK YOU. >> AS A YOUNG KID WHEN I HAD CHICKEN POX, MY PARENTS PUT ME

IN A QUARANTINE. IN THOSE DAYS WE HAD TO GO IN A ROOM FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS, LITERALLY, STAY AWAY FROM THE REST OF THE KIDS. SO, THEY GAVE ME A LITTLE EASEL AND A LITTLE PAD AND SOME PAINT AND THEY BASICALLY SHUT ME OFF FROM THE WORLD FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME. APPARENTLY, WHEN I GOT OUT OF QUARANTINE, THEY THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BE A GREAT ARTIST. >> ON TUESDAY, FEDERAL AGENTS RAIDED RUIDOSO DOWNS AS PART OF AN INVESTIGATION INTO A THE FEDS ALLEGE THE ZETAS DRUG CARTEL IN NEW MEXICO BOUGHT HORSES FROM ITS OWN SHELL COMPANIES THAT INFLATED PRICES, IN AN EFFORT TO CLEAN DRUG MONEY. THIS COMES JUST A FEW WEEKS AFTER THE NEW MEXICO'S HORSE RACING INDUSTRY WE GOT SULLIED IN A NEW YORK TIMES INVESTIGATION. HERE WE GO AGAIN, TIMES IS BACK ON THIS. IT WAS AN EMBARGOED STORY THEY WERE WORKING ON CHASING DOWN THE OTHER STORY. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST SENSE OF THIS? WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD THIS, WE

HAVE A CARTEL PRESENCE IN OUR STATE AND NOT JUST A CARTEL PRESENCE, A GUY WHO IS INFAMOUS FOR DISMEMBERING HIS ENEMIES AND THROWING THEM OUT IN PLASTIC TRASH BAGS, IN NEW MEXICO. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST THOUGHT? WE HAD STORIES WHERE THERE WERE WEDDINGS DOWN IN SANTA THERESA AND CARTEL CAME ACROSS TO THE LITTLE CHURCH, TOOK THE PEOPLE OUT OF THE CHURCH, TOOK THEM BACK ACROSS THE BORDER NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN. IT IS NOT LIKE WE'RE IN MICHIGAN, A FOUR DAY DRIVE. THE DRIVE FROM ACROSS THE BORDER TO RUIDOSO IS AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF. IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME AND IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME BECAUSE OF THE CASH NATURE OF HORSE RACING. PEOPLE BUYING HORSES ARE ABLE TO PAY CASH FOR THEM, ABLE TO SAY, HEY, I AM BUYING THIS FOR TRIP AND THERE IS NO FORM OF ID'S NEED TO BE SHOWN. IT WAS INTERESTING RUIDOSO DOWNS WAS COOPERATING WITH THESE GUYS TRYING TO CLEAN THIS UP. I THINK THAT IT WAS INTERESTING WHEN YOU READ THE NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE

EVERYBODY THEY TALKED TO WAS SURPRISED THAT THIS GUY WAS THIS GUY. THEY WERE ALL, LIKE, WE ALL HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM BUT HE WAS A REALLY NICE GUY. HE WORKED HARD. HE WAS A BRICKLAYER. >> HORSES NAMED CARTEL. >> BUYING $800,000 HORSES BUT HE IS A BRICKLAYER. I AM, LIKE, WOW. >> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION, IF NOT SURPRISED, WAS THERE A LEVEL OF SURPRISE, A LEVEL OF SOMETHING THERE THAT CAUGHT YOU? >> I SPENT LAST WEEKEND CLOSE TO THE BORDER AND A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION WAS CASUAL IN WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN JUAREZ VERSUS EL PASO AND SOME OF SCUTTLEBUTT DOWN THERE IS THERE IS MORE PRESENCE THAN MAYBE ONE WOULD THINK, JUST ON THE FACE OF THINGS, SO WHEN THIS CAME OUT, UNLIKE DAN I WAS SURPRISED AND THEN I SAW THE COMMENTS IN THE NEW YORK TIMES OR IN STORIES, AP, THIS IS NOT SURPRISING, CASH INDUSTRY, IF YOU HEARD THE PEOPLE THE NEW YORK TIMES TALKED TO, NICE GUY, PAID WITH CASH.

>> $800,000 IN CASH. >> WE KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP BUT IN HORSE RACING LIKE MAYBE OTHER BUSINESSES, YOU GOT THE MONEY, YOU DON'T ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS. THAT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. IF YOU HAVE GOT THE MONEY AND THIS KIND OF THING, YOU DO DON'T HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ASKED OF YOU. WHEN I HEARD BROTHER OF ONE OF THE HIGHER UPS IN ZETAS, THAT WIDENED MY EYES. I WAS LIKE, THOSE GUYS ARE SERIOUS, VERY SERIOUS. >> SAME QUESTION, WHAT WAS YOUR THOUGHT HERE AND ARE WE AT A POINT WHERE WE SHOULD JUST SAY, OKAY, HORSE RACING BUSINESS, THOROUGHBRED RACING BUSINESS IN NEW MEXICO, LET'S CALL IT A STOP. >> QUARTER HORSE. >> LET'S CALL A STOP HERE AND GET DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. >> I AM NOT SURE HOW MUCH MORE WE CAN DO. THERE IS FEDERAL INDICTMENT, THIS IS PART OF AN FBI INVESTIGATION GOING ON, PRESUMABLY A LONG-TERM INVESTIGATION WHERE THEY ARE GETTING THEIR DUCKS IN A ROW. I THINK THAT IS HAPPENING. I AM NOT SURE THAT AS A STATE WE CAN DO A WHOLE LOT MORE

OTHER THAN MAYBE CHANGE THE RULES ABOUT THIS BEING A CASH ONLY INDUSTRY OR PREDOMINANTLY CASH. I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER AREA WHERE PEOPLE TAKE THOSE AMOUNTS OF MONEY IN CASH, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. THERE SHOULD BE MORE REGULATORY AND CAUTION USED IN TERMS OF THE RACING COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THESE THINGS ARE BEING HANDLED PROPERLY. BECAUSE, THAT SHOULD HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, I AM NOT SURPRISED TO SEE THE CARTEL'S PRESENCE. I THINK WE PROBABLY HAVE POCKETS OF THIS ALL OVER THE STATE IN VARIOUS INDUSTRIES, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. THIS WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME. I THINK WHAT SURPRISES ME, IT WAS ACTUALLY AN INCORPORATED ENTERPRISE. I WAS HOPING IT WASN'T INCORPORATED HERE. IT WASN'T. IT IS IN TEXAS BUT IT WAS INCORPORATED BY SOMEBODY IN 2009 AND PRESUMABLY THEY HAD GONE THROUGH THE PROPER PAPERWORK AND FIGURED OUT HOW TO GET THAT DONE. WHAT IS SURPRISING IS IT WAS SO MUCH EFFORT WAS PUT INTO HIDING THE SHELL BUSINESSES, THAT IS WHAT SURPRISED ME MORE THAN THE PRESENCE ITSELF.

>> CLEARLY ORGANIZED. >> THIS GETS BACK TO TRIP'S POINT, YOU COULD HAVE THIS WHOLE ORGANIC NETWORK, RIGHT? A LITTLE HERE AND HERE BUT NOBODY QUESTIONS ANYTHING. >> I THINK IT IS A PROBLEM IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT IS COMING TO BEAR ON THE HORSE RACING COMMISSION, WHICH IS BY ALL ACCOUNTS MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATE IN HORSE RACING, QUARTER HORSE RACING, ESPECIALLY, ARE EXCELLENT PEOPLE, THEY KNOW WHO THE NEIGHBORS ARE AT TRACKS. THEY KNEW HE WAS NEW. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO FOR SUCH A LONG TIME HAS A "WELCOME ANYBODY" SIGN UP. IT HADS TO DO WITH POLICIES AND HOW WE DEAL WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE IN OUR COUNTRY, THAT YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY DRIVER'S LICENSE POLICY. AND I THINK THAT UNTIL WE REALLY START GETTING SERIOUS IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE ARE LAW BIDING CITIZENS AND, AGAIN, TRYING TO REALLY PUSH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PUT RESOURCES WHERE WE NEED TO HAVE THEM WHICH ARE IN THE BORDER STATES, IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN. TEXAS, NEW MEXICO, ARIZONA,

CALIFORNIA, WE HAVE SPECIAL CHALLENGES AND WE'RE JUST NOT COMING ANYWHERE CLOSE. >> DOES THIS SITUATION HELP IN THAT REGARD; OFFER NEW INSIGHT FOR FOLKS THAT ARE THINKING ABOUT THE BORDER OR, IN FACT, ARE WE CHASING POOR PEOPLE CROSSING THE RIVER VERSUS GUYS WHO ARE SO FLUSH WITH CASH THEY CAN GO ANYWHERE? >> THE WAY IT LOOKS, THE WAY THE NEWS COVERAGE LOOKS, MAKES IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ONE COUPLE OF GUYS, THIS ONE COMPANY, AND IT IS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT. WHEN YOU LIVE HERE, YOU REALIZE WE HAVE CHALLENGES THAT DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT WE ARE A BORDER STATE. >> THEY TALK HOW THEY BOUGHT HORSES HERE, RACED THEM. IF THEY DIDN'T DO WELL AND TOOK THEM TO RACE IN MEXICO AND THEN WALK THEM ACROSS THE BORDER THROUGH THE RIO GRANDE TO GET THEM BACK IN. IT IS ONE THING THAT AN INDIVIDUAL CROSSING THE BORDER TO COME FIND A JOB CAN DO THAT, HOW ARE YOU SHIPPING HORSES ACROSS THE BORDER AND NO ONE CATCHES YOU? >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SURPRISED ME ACTUALLY GIVEN THE STORIES WE COVERED HERE, THERE WAS A STORY RECENTLY ABOUT THE MAN AND HIS SON WHO WERE STOPPED AND $14,000 IN CASH, WHICH APPEARS TO BE A LARGE AMOUNT OF CASH TO BE CARRYING AROUND AND IT GOT CONFISCATED. $14,000, COMPARE THAT TO $800,000 WORTH OF A HORSE BEING PAID FOR IN CASH. HOW DOES THAT NOT RAISE

QUESTIONS? >> I THINK, YOU KNOW ALSO, TRAFFICKERS, I REMEMBER READING A BOOK A FEW YEARS BACK PABLO ESCOBAR, HIS VALUE WAS PLACED AT LIKE TWO BILLION, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE JUST SWIMMING IN MONEY. AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS, AM I GOING TO SAY, I KNOW WHO ON THE BORDER IS TAKING MONEY AND WHO IS NOT? I AM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL BUT THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY. >> THIS ORGANIZATION IS PRIME TIME. THIS IS PARA-MILITARY. THIS IS NOT SO HOMELESS GUY THAT STARTS -- THIS IS MEXICO MILITARY, FORMER FEDERAL AGENTS, MILITARY GUYS. THIS IS THE GREEN BERETS OF MEXICO THAT GOT TOGETHER AND SAID WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS AND THIS GUY -- >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF THE ORIGINS OF THAT GANG AND THERE WERE SPLINTER GROUPS. >> THEY USED TO PROVIDE HELP FOR THE CARTEL -- >> THESE GUYS ARE NO JOKE, SO IF YOU DID THINK THEY WERE

DOING SOMETHING, ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE PERSON LIVING IN RUIDOSO, HEY, LOCAL RUIDOSO SHERIFF, I THINK SHE IS THE ONE DOING THIS STUFF, BECAUSE YOU KNOW HE IS GOING TO GO OVER AND SAY, OLD DAN FOLEY TOLD ME. SO, I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY HAVE JUST BEEN NOT ONLY FLUSH WITH CASH BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING, I AM NOT GOING TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. >> THE MONEY COMING IN, HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH THAT? IF SOMEBODY PAYS DOUBLE WHAT YOUR HORSE IS WORTH, YOU KNOW. >> IN THESE TIMES, SOMEBODY MENTIONS, OF COURSE. IN A MOMENT, WHY A PAINTER RENOWN FOR SEASCAPES FOUND A HOME HERE IN NEW MEXICO. >> I WOULD ASSUME SHE FEELS SHE HAS GOT A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE VOTERS, SO, IT MAY NOT FEEL GOOD IF YOU'RE ON THE RECEIVING END OF IT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT IS POLITICS AND IT JUST HAS TO SHAKE OUT THE WAY IT IS GOING TO SHAKE OUT. EITHER YOU FOLLOW HER AGENDA OR NOT AND THAT HAPPENS IN EVERY STATE, EVERY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY. >> FOR AN ARTIST MOVING FROM MAINE TO NEW MEXICO IT MIGHT

ELICIT A BIT OF PANIC ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE LONNIE SISSON. KNOWN FOR HIS PAINTINGS OF MAINE SEASCAPES, SISSON MOVED TO NEW MEXICO IN 1978 AND BEGAN PAINTING THE DESERT. IN THIS INSTALLATION OF ARE ONGOING ARTISODES SERIES, SISSON EXPLAINS WHY HE FOUND NEW MEXICO SUCH A GOOD FIT. (PIANO PLAYING) >> WHEN I GET TO THIS AGE IN MY PAINTINGS, I STILL HAVE THAT DESIRE, THAT PASSION, TO EXPRESS SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER BEEN PAINTED BEFORE. I FOUND THIS WAY THAT I COULD PAINT TIDE POOLS AND THROW PAINT AT THE CANVASS AND DO IT

IN A CONTROLLED WAY. SO, IT WAS LIKE CONTROLLED CHAOS. I DID A PAINTING AT ONE TIME, WHICH I WAS TOTALLY EXASPERATED WITH. I HAVE A TEMPER. I TOOK OUT A BRUSH FILLED WITH PAINT AND I THREW IT AT THE CANVASS, AT THE PANEL, AND NOW I HAVE REMORSE, BECAUSE I SCREWED UP A PERFECTLY GOOD PAINTING BECAUSE OF ONE PASSAGE. SO, I STARTED TO WIPE IT OFF. I TRIED TO BRUSH IT OFF. WHEN I TRIED TO BRUSH IT OFF, I GOT THIS INCREDIBLE THREE-DIMENSIONAL QUALITY FROM THIS AREA. >> AS A YOUNG KID WHEN I HAD CHICKENPOX MY PARENTS PUT ME IN A QUARANTINE. IN THOSE DAYS WE HAD TO GO IN A ROOM FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS,

LITERALLY, TO STAY AWAY FROM THE REST OF THE KIDS. THEY GAVE ME A LITTLE EASEL AND A PAD AND SOME PAINTS AND THEY BASICALLY SHUT ME OFF FROM THE WORLD FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME. AND, APPARENTLY, WHEN I GOT OUT OF QUARANTINE, THEY THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BE A GREAT ARTIST. THEY SAID, "LONNIE, THAT IS BEAUTIFUL WORK, YOU HAVE TO KEEP DRAWING AND PAINTING." SO, I DID. WHEN MY PARENTS HAD FRIENDS COME IN, THEY WOULD ALL COME IN AND SAY, "THIS IS FANTASTIC WORK." OF COURSE, I GOT SO MUCH ENCOURAGEMENT, THAT I ALMOST FELT I MUST GO ON TO BE AN ARTIST. THAT IS ALL THERE WAS TO IT. >> HE IS PAINTING A VISUAL YOU LOOK AT THEM AND YOU CAN'T WALK ON BY. YOU HAVE TO STOP AND LOOK. HOW DID HE DO THAT? >> WHAT YOU SEE AROUND HERE, THEY ARE VIBRANT, LOTS OF

CLOUDS, LOTS OF BLUE, LOTS OF COLORS. >> WHEN I WAS DETERMINED I WAS GOING TO BE A PAINTER, I ENROLLED AT THE WORCESTER MUSEUM SCHOOL, WHICH WAS A WONDERFUL SMALL SCHOOL. AND AT THAT POINT, I KNEW I WOULD HAVE TO GO IN THE ARMY SO I ENLISTED WHEN I WAS 17, BUT THEY SENT US TO JAPAN. I TRAVELED ALL OVER JAPAN. I WOUND UP EVENTUALLY PLAYING PIANO, ENJOYED IT ALL THE TIME. PLAYED THE PIANO AT NIGHT. DURING THE DAY, I WAS ABLE TO GO INTO THE SMALL TOWNS AND I TRADED PIPE TOBACCO FOR HIROSHIGES, HOKUSAIS AND UTAMARO PRINTS AND I JUST FELL AND, THAT STAYED WITH ME. I JUST LOVED THE IMAGES AND THE KIND OF ANGULAR QUALITY AND THE RHYTHMIC, ARABESQUE QUALITY OF SOME OF THE PRINTMAKERS. I WENT BACK TO JAPAN 40 YEARS LATER AND I GOT A GLIMPSE OF FUJI AND THERE IT WAS, THE MOST MAJESTIC SINGLE THING I HAD EVER SEEN.

SOMETHING ABOUT FUJI IS SO MAGNIFICENT AND SO SPIRITUAL, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT A BUDDHIST OR A HINDU. >> WHEN I REALLY HAD SOMETHING I WANTED TO SAY, OR IF I HAD A SPIRITUAL AWAKENING THAT I WANTED TO PAINT, SOMETHING IN NATURE THAT WAS A FANTASTIC PASSAGE OF FOREST AND SNOW OR SOME BEAUTIFUL WAVE BREAKING OFF OF BURNT ISLAND OR A GREAT SKY THAT I SAW, IF I SAW SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I WANTED TO HAVE ENOUGH SKILL SO THAT IMMEDIATELY, I COULD PUT UP A BRUSH AND PAINT IT IN LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES. AND I DEVELOPED A LANGUAGE THAT I COULD USE TO EXPRESS MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE OCEAN, MY FEELINGS ABOUT MAINE. I HAD A SHOW ONCE CALLED "MAINE, THE MOON AND ME,"

BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MOON AND ABOUT MAINE AND IT WAS ABOUT MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE OCEAN AND HOW THE MOON AFFECTS THE TIDES. >> RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE EDGE OF THE MOON AND THE SEA, EVERYTHING ELSE FLOWS UP TO THAT POINT IN THE PAINTING, THEORETICALLY. BUT, I JUST LOVE THE MOVEMENT OF THE OCEAN AND I LOVE TRYING TO PAINT SURF. SANTA FE CAPTURED MY I IMAGINATION BECAUSE I HAD SEEN WORK BY TAOS FATHERS AND I BEGAN TO FIND IMAGES THAT I WOULD NEVER SEE IN MAINE. ALTHOUGH, I THOUGHT WHEN I CAME OUT HERE, I WAS GOING TO GO NUTS BECAUSE THERE WOULDN'T BE PEBBLES OR ROCKS OR SHALE. THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY OF THE BEACHES THAT I MISS SO MUCH IN MAINE. YET THE VERY FIRST TIME I WENT UP TO THE NAMBE FALLS AND AT THE BASE OF THE FALLS, HERE ARE ALL MY ROCKS, AGAIN, ALL

THE PEBBLES, ALL THE ROCKS, PLUS INDIAN SHARDS AND WONDERFUL LITTLE PIECES OF ADOBE AND CHIPS OFF THE RED STONE AND CHINLE ROCK AND IT WAS MARVELOUS. THEN I REALIZED, WHY NOT? THE SEA CAME THROUGH HERE LONG BEFORE ANYBODY THOUGHT CIVILIZATION WOULD BE COMING. SO, THE LANDSCAPE, THE DESERT WAS THE FLOOR OF THE SEA. AND OUT HERE, THE ISLANDS BECAME THE MESAS AND THE OCEAN BECAME THE DESERT FLOOR, BUT THERE WAS CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF MAINE SEASCAPES THAT WERE BECOMING THE UNDERLYING ARCHITECTURE OF MY DESERT WORK. IT BECAME A PERFECT SYMBIOSIS FOR ME. SOMEONE ASKED ME THE OTHER DAY, WHAT IS ON YOUR BUCKET LIST? THE ONLY THING ON MY BUCKET

LIST RELATIVE TO PAINTING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO AND THAT IS, I WOULD LOVE -- IT IS IMPOSSIBLE -- BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HIRE A WAREHOUSE AND GET EVERY PAINTING I HAVE EVER DONE AND PUT IT IN THAT WAREHOUSE. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AWFULLY BIG SO I COULD ONCE IN MY LIFE SEE WHAT THE HELL IT IS I PAINTED. >> I THINK THAT IS ENOUGH FOR NOW. (PIANO PLAYING) >> I THINK IT IS A LACK OF RESPECT FROM THE FAR LEFT HOLLYWOOD, FOR REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES. THEY HAVE A DISDAIN FOR THEM AND I DON'T THINK IT IS A WAY TO BUILD A RELATIONSHIP. >> GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ HAS SOME HEALING TO DO IN HER OWN PARTY. SOME REPUBLICANS IN EASTERN NEW MEXICO BRISTLED AT HER PICKING FAVORITES IN A LEGISLATIVE PRIMARY. HER TOP POLITICAL ADVISOR, JAY MCCLESKEY, IS NOW BEING TURNED INTO A BOOGIEMAN OF SORTS BY SOME IN HIS OWN PARTY. AND EVEN AS THE LEADER OF HER

PARTY, SUSANA MARTINEZ HAD SOME PUSHBACK ON HER SLATE OF PREFERRED DELEGATES TO THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IN AUGUST. >> WHITNEY, THERE IS ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS, I SUPPOSE, AND THAT IS THIS IS NORMAL FALLOUT OF A LOT OF EGOS AND THINGS CAN HAPPEN, BOTH PARTIES, IT IS JUST THERE. WAS THERE AN OVERSTEP HERE IN YOUR VIEW BY EITHER THE GOVERNOR MR. MCCLESKEY ON WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO THIS CYCLE AND IS THERE SOME REPAIR WORK TO BE DONE? IT WOULDN'T BE OVERSTEP BY JAY MCCLESKEY. HE WORKS FOR THE GOVERNOR. HE IMPLEMENTS HER AGENDA. AND WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO, SO I TAKE ISSUE WITH HIM BEING VILIFIED AS HER ADVISOR. THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY IS I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK SHE OVERSTEPPED. I THINK IF YOU WERE SITTING IN THE GOVERNOR'S SEAT, SHE WAS ELECTED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. SHE TOLD VOTING PUBLIC SHE WAS GOING TO RUN THE AGENDA, WHATEVER IT WAS, AND SHE FEELS THAT SHE NEEDS TO GET THAT DONE. AND IF SHE FEELS LIKE SHE CAN'T GET THAT DONE BECAUSE SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS ARE NOT VOTING THE

WAY SHE WANTS THEM TO BE VOTING OR SUPPORTING THE LEGISLATION, SHE FEELS, I WOULD ASSUME, SHE HAS RESPONSIBILITY TO VOTERS. SO IT MAY NOT FEEL GOOD IF YOU'RE ON THE RECEIVING END OF IT BUT UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS POLITICS. AND IT JUST HAS TO SHAKE OUT THE WAY IT SHAKES OUT. EITHER YOU FOLLOW HER AGENDA OR YOU'RE NOT AND THAT HAPPENS IN EVERY STATE IN EVERY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY. >> THE DEMOCRAT ACROSS TABLE, AS OPPOSED TO MS. WAITE JUST NOW, BILL RICHARDSON HAD HIS OWN ISSUES WITH THIS. HE SUPPORTED PEOPLE, HE DIDN'T HAVE A PAC, A LITTLE LESS OFFICIAL. IS THIS NORMAL COURSE OF BUSINESS, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHO CARES? INFLUENCE WHEN RICHARDSON WAS THERE, DEFINITELY, BUT, I THINK WHAT STICKS IN THE CRAW OF FOLKS IN EASTERN NEW MEXICO IS THAT THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY STORIES THAT SHE HAD THREATENED HARDEN AND SAID, I AM GOING TO RUN SOMEONE AGAINST, A VERY HEAVY-HANDED APPROACH FOR THE SENATOR THAT WAS WELL REGARDED IN THAT AREA AND STATE WIDE. HE HAD DONE A LOT FOR

RENEWABLE ENERGY. A LOT OF FOLKS I WORKED WITH, ENVIRONMENTALISTS ALSO REGARDED HIM QUITE WELL AS SOMEBODY WHO STOOD FOR -- >> ENVIRONMENTAL PEOPLE LIKE YOU DID HIM IN? >> I AM KIDDING. >> HIS VOTE AGAINST DRIVER'S LICENSE. >> RIGHT. >> I THINK IT IS ABOUT REAL ISSUES. >> I THINK PEOPLE IN EASTERN NEW MEXICO JUST BRISTLE AT THAT. I THINK ANYWHERE IN NEW MEXICO I THINK PEOPLE HERE WANT TO BELIEVE THEY ARE INDEPENDENT AND THEIR COMMUNITY MATTERS AND THEY ARE THE BEST JUDGE OF WHO SHOULD REPRESENT THEM AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT BACKFIRED. I AM NOT SURE THAT, I THINK MS. MCCLESKEY IS THE OBVIOUS BOOGIEMAN BECAUSE HE IS EVERYWHERE, SO, HE IS THE GUY THAT GETS VILIFIED, BUT IT IS ULTIMATELY THE GOVERNOR'S RESPONSIBILITY, WELL, IT WAS HER DECISION, AND I THINK SHE IS GOING TO HAVE FENCES TO MEND TO MAKE SURE SHE IS EFFECTIVE IN THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION. >> WOULD YOU AGREE WITH WHAT WHITNEY SAID, DAN, SHE HAS AN AGENDA, JAY WORKS FOR HER, THIS IS ALL THE NORMAL COURSE OF BUSINESS? >> I DO AND I SEE IT THAT WAY,

BECAUSE I DON'T THINK JAY WAS RUNNING AROUND SAYING I AM DOING THIS ON MY OWN. THIS WAS A DECISION. I THINK THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, LIKE WHITNEY SAID, THE GOVERNOR WAS ELECTED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT HELPING HER DO THOSE THINGS, SHE WILL GO AFTER. I THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR GAINED CREDIBILITY IN THIS DEAL. KIND OF LIKE LAURA SAID, THIS HAS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS. JUST GOVERNORS HAVE BEEN AFRAID TO PUT THEIR NAMES ON IT. THEY GET SOME HENCHMAN TO DO IT OR OUTSIDE GROUP. >> IS THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO? >> I THINK THE RIGHT WAY TO GO IS BE MATURE ABOUT IT, PUT YOUR NAME ON IT AND SAY, LOOK, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. GOVERNOR MARTINEZ CAN HOLD HER HEAD UP STRONG. THE ONLY THING ELECTED OFFICIALS FEAR MORE THAN BAD PRESS IS A WELL-FUNDED PRIMARY OPPONENT. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THEY FEAR MORE THAN BAD PRESS. IF THE GOVERNOR SAYS, I AM FOR THESE ISSUES, REPUBLICAN HOUSE CAUCUS AND REPUBLICAN SENATE CAUCUS, HERE THEY ARE. THEY ARE POLLING AT 75%, THEY ARE POLLING OFF THE CHARTS IN REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS AND REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES, I WANT YOU TO BE ONBOARD. IF YOU'RE LIKE CLINT HARDEN, YOU VOTE AGAINST DRIVER'S LICENSE DEAL, THERE IS LEGISLATORS THAT MAY TELL YOU, FACE-TO-FACE OR QUIETLY, WE

DON'T LIKE THIS, BUT I'LL BET THEY FALL IN LINE NOW BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THE WELL-FUNDED PRIMARY OPPONENT. KUDOS TO HER. WE ARE SAYING SHE HAS FENCES TO MEND. SHE LOST ONE RACE AND WON OVERWHELMINGLY MORE RACES THAN SHE LOST. ENDED UP WELL OUT THERE IN ALL THOSE PLACES. MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK, THAT THERE IS A BIGGER STORY THAT IS EVERYBODY IS MISSING IS HOW SHE SINGLE HANDEDLY HAS MOVED THE DEMOCRAT PARTY FROM THE FAR LEFT OF PROGRESSIVISM BACK TO THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD NOW. YOU LOOK AT THOSE PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES. >> I HAVE TO STOP YOU THERE. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT ONE OTHER TIME. WE'RE SHORT ON TIME. YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS, AGAIN, I AM HEARING AN OVERALL THEME HERE. I APPRECIATE DAN'S POINT. ANYBODY IN A POSITION OF POWER, YOU USE POWER, THAT IS WHY YOU GET IT. >> I MEAN, I COVERED RICHARDSON, HE WENT AFTER AND HE WAS A STRONG KIND OF LIKE PROPONENT, I WANT MY STUFF DONE. HE WENT AFTER PEOPLE. WHEN I GOT IN THE STATE, THOUGH, IT WAS AFTER THE GOP HERE HAD GOTTEN THROUGH A VERY TURBULENT PERIOD AND I MEAN PEOPLE STILL TALK ABOUT IT IN GOP CIRCLES WHEN DENDAHL WENT AFTER MONEY AND THIS KIND OF STUFF.

THIS IS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT BUT I WONDER IF AT SOME POINT, DOES THIS CASCADE BEYOND ONE RACE. I DON'T KNOW THAT AT ALL. I JUST WONDER. >> I THINK IT IS NOTABLE THAT ANGIE SPEARS LOST, SO, WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ HAD THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT SHE DID OR WHETHER IT WAS A GOOD CALL, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYTHING CAN BE TAKEN AWAY FROM PAT WOOD'S CAMPAIGN. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THEY POUNDED DOORS, WORKED STREETS, ON TELEPHONES, FRIEND TO FRIEND, NEIGHBOR TO NEIGHBOR, YOU DON'T WIN AGAINST A WELL FUNDED CAMPAIGN LINE ANGIE SPEARS HAD IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT CANDIDATE FOR THE DISTRICT AND YOU DON'T WORK YOUR TAIL OFF. THAT GOT LOST. THEY RAN A GREAT RACE. >> HE SAID HE AGREED WITH GOVERNOR MARTINEZ ON EVERYTHING. HE DIDN'T RUN SAYING, I AM NOT FOR DRIVER'S LICENSES. HE SAID, I AM RIGHT IN LINE WITH HER. >> WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE EDITORIAL -- FORGOT THE PAPER. >> JOURNAL. RIGHT, WE FORGIVE BUT DON'T FORGET.

>> I LIKED IT. I ACTUALLY APPRECIATED IT. >> TERRIFICALLY WRITTEN. >> VERY WELL WRITTEN. ANYBODY WHO GETS THE CHANCE TO READ IT, PART THAT MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE TO SOME IS PART ABOUT SANTA FE. IT WAS A DIG THROUGH ABOUT SANTA FE, CITY DIFFERENT, BUT, NOBODY -- >> I READ IT WAS A DIG THAT COULD HAVE BEEN 125 YEARS OLD. >> IT COULD HAVE BEEN. I THINK, BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT IS JUST A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CULTURE. IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE TO ANYBODY WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH BOTH THOSE AREAS. I THOUGHT IT WAS A NICE WAY OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, LOOK WE DO FORGIVE, BUT WE DON'T FORGET, SO, LET'S WORK TOGETHER. >> SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN NOVEMBER. NOW, START THE COUNTDOWN. WE'RE GOING ON THE CLOCK. FIRST UP, THE DUNE SAGEBRUSH LIZARD IS NOT AN ENDANGERED SPECIES. THE FEDS SAID A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN OIL AND GAS DRILLERS AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS MAY BE ENOUGH. IS THIS A COMPROMISE OR A POLITICAL PLAY DURING AN ELECTION CYCLE? >> I THINK THAT DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK. I AM IN THE BUSINESS OF ASKING PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK. IT WAS VERY INTERESTING THEY HAD AGREEMENTS IN PLACE AND SOME PEOPLE REALLY DON'T LIKE THOSE AGREEMENTS. THEY SAY THEY DON'T GO FAR

ENOUGH. OTHER PEOPLE SAY, LOOK, THIS IS ENOUGH. WE, THROUGH VOLUNTARY AGREEMENTS, CAN HELP THIS SPECIES. IN MY BUSINESS, IT IS ABOUT WHO YOU ASK. >> WHITNEY, THIS CAME UP REAL QUICK. YOU USUALLY DON'T GET A QUICK READ ON A SPECIES LIKE THIS. >> IT WAS QUICK, I AGREE, BUT MY POINT ON THIS IS BESIDES WATER, PETROLEUM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMODITY IN ALL OF OUR LIVES AND WE FORGET THAT AND ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS ARE TRYING TO SHUT IT DOWN IN EVERY WAY, LIKE THEY CAN WITH A LIZARD. I AM GLAD THEY DIDN'T. >> I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THE LAST COMMENT ABOUT QUICK TO SHUT IT DOWN. I THINK IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT WHAT ENVIRONMENTALISTS HAVE DONE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO ALLOW FOR DEVELOPMENT, RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT, AND OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY FEELS THE SAME WAY. I THINK IT WAS A SUCCESS. ANY TIME YOU CAN AVOID PUTTING AN ANIMAL ON THE ENDANGERED LIST, YOU HAVE SUCCESS IF ALL PARTNERS ARE WORKING TOGETHER. >> WE LEARNED THIS WEEK THAT THE STATE'S PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT CREATED AN EMAIL LIST OF NON-UNION TEACHERS FOR GOVERNOR MARTINEZ' POLITICAL ADVISOR JAY MCCLESKEY.

THEY SAY IT WAS IN RESPONSE TO A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST BUT THE LIST WAS SENT FROM A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE'S PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESS TO MR. MCCLESKEY. GOVERNOR, HER CHIEF OF STAFF AND SECRETARY DESIGNATE, HANNAH SKANDERA, ALL AT PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESSES. PED SAYS IT WAS A MISTAKE. CLEARLY IT WAS. DO YOU BUY THAT IT WAS JUST A MISTAKE OR MISTAKE AFTER THE FACT, AFTER PEOPLE POINTED IT OUT. >> ONCE AGAIN, I THINK IT IS A STORY LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO GO. DID THEY MAKE A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST? YOU CAN FIND THAT OUT. THEY DID. SO, I MEAN, REGARDLESS HOW IT GOT ANYWHERE, ANYBODY CAN LOOK AT REQUESTS THAT ARE MADE BY THE PUBLIC. IT WAS MADE THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS. SHOULD THEY HAVE SENT IT OUT TO PRIVATE EMAIL, NO. FINE, BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT, REQUEST WAS MADE ABOVE BOARD AND STANDS RIGHT IN LINE WITH THE REQUESTS THAT ARE MADE AND LEGALLY DONE. >> WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? THAT IS NOT AN UNCOMMON REQUEST FOR POLITICAL

ORGANIZATIONS. >> I THINK THAT VERY FEW REQUESTS LIKE THAT GET ACTED UPON SO QUICKLY AND THERE IS ADDITIONAL RESEARCH DONE TO FULFILL THEM. WHEN YOU MAKE THE REQUESTS LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE PEOPLE FISHING THROUGH TO GET THE INFORMATION AND I THINK IT DEMONSTRATES WHAT CLOSE TIES THEY HAVE IN THE ADMINISTRATION IF THEY ARE ABLE TO SEND IT OFF TO PRIVATE EMAILS. >> 15 SECONDS. >> IT REMINDED ME OF MARTIN CHAVEZ WHEN HE WAS STILL THE MAYOR AND HE PULLED THE ENTIRE LIST OF EVERY DOG LICENSE REQUESTED IN THE ENTIRE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND THEN HE MAILED THEM A MAILER ON CAMPAIGN ELECTION YEAR FROM DUKE THE DOG. IT HAS GONE ON IN MANY ADMINISTRATIONS FOR QUITE A LONG TIME. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE HAVING THEIR INFORMATION USED BUT TRUTH IS, THAT HAPPENS. >> THE STATE IS IN A BIT OF A SPAT WITH A FILM GROUP, ROBERT REDFORD'S MILAGRO PROGRAM. THERE IS TALK FILM MAKING WORKSHOPS AND CULTURAL GROUPS UNDERREPRESENTED IN THE FILM INDUSTRY AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, I HAVE ACTUALLY PARTICIPATED IN SOME OF THOSE AND IT WAS ACTUALLY INTERESTING. NOW, THEY USED THE STATE-OWNED LOS LUCEROS RANCH IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, A BEAUTIFUL

PROPERTY THAT HAD BEEN RENOVATED, BUT NOW SITS EMPTY AS THE STATE COMES TO TERMS WITH THE GROUP. WHITNEY, WHY IS THIS HARD TO RESOLVE? THERE IS A GROUP THAT WANTS TO USE THIS THING, WE HAVE A STATE THAT HAS THIS FACILITY THAT COSTS THEM MONEY EVERYDAY TO RUN IT, I DON'T GET IT. >> IT COMES DOWN TO RESOURCES. THERE IS A LOT OF BONES LEFT OVER FROM GOVERNOR RICHARDSON'S ADMINISTRATION WHERE WE OVERSPENT WHERE WE SHOULDN'T AND IT IS A SHAME BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE TO MAKE CUTS. IT DOESN'T FEEL GOOD. IT IS A SHAME ABOUT THE FILM INDUSTRY. I HATE THAT IT FEELS LIKE THAT BUT THE TRUTH IS THERE IS A LOT OF RESOURCES THAT WERE GOING INTO FUNDING. >> MILAGRO FOLKS ARE NOT ASKING FOR MUCH. >> I WAS THERE THE DAY THAT RICHARDSON WERE THERE IN SANTA FE. I WONDER IF THIS IS A PROGRAM, THIS IS A RICHARDSON SIGNATURE, LARGER FILM INDUSTRY, IF IT IS JUST NOT A PRIORITY -- NOT THE FILM INDUSTRY BUT THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM. >> IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE, THE INTERVIEW THAT HE WROTE BACK, I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL, HE HAS NO RESPECT FOR GOVERNOR MARTINEZ, JUST REFERS TO HER AS MARTINEZ.

IT IS A LACK OF RESPECT FROM THE FAR LEFT HOLLYWOOD FOR REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES. THEY HAVE A DISDAIN FOR THEM AND I DON'T THINK IT IS A WAY TO BUILD A RELATIONSHIP. >> IF IT IS SOMETHING THEY WANT -- >> TAX DOLLARS. >> IS THIS POSSIBLE? IS THERE A BETTER -- >> I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF EFFORT PUT INTO IT AND SINCE IT HAS BEEN IN PLACE, MY UNDERSTANDING THERE HAS BEEN SOME RENEGOTIATION OF THE MOU TO REDUCE THE STATE'S FINANCIAL COMMITMENT AND THIS HAS BEEN A BENEFIT TO NEW MEXICANS FROM THIS PROGRAM. >> I APOLOGIZE, I WANTED TO GET YOU IN THERE. SANTA FE CITY COUNCIL IS BACKING OFF OF A WORKFORCE AGREEMENT THAT WOULD HAVE INSISTED ON UNION LABOR FOR LARGE SCALE CITY PROJECTS. JOURNAL'S EDITORIAL BOARD SAYS THE AGREEMENT SHOULD BE SCRAPPED ALTOGETHER AND PROTECTIONS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE TO ENSURE FAIR WORKING CONDITIONS. LAURA, IF THIS IS A CASE -- WAS THIS JUST A NOD FROM THE MAYOR TO UNIONS DURING THE CAMPAIGN OR WAS THIS A LEGITIMATE IDEA TO PUT ON THE TABLE TO PROTECT WORKERS IN A CITY WHERE WAGES ARE

DIFFICULT? >> I THINK IT IS A LEGITIMATE IDEA AND I ALSO BELIEVE FROM THE REPORTS I READ, THE UNION THEMSELVES ASKED THAT IT BE DELAYED. I DON'T THINK THIS IS PUT OFF COMPLETELY SO I DON'T THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY IT WAS AN ELECTION PLOY. UNIONS ASKED THAT IT BE PUT OFF TO TRY TO WORK OUT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE STILL UNDERLYING. I SEE THAT STILL COMING UP AGAIN. >> UNBELIEVABLE HEAVY HANDED TACTIC BY THE MAYOR. THEY DON'T CALL IT WHAT IT IS. IT IS FORCED UNIONISM. THEY PUSHED OUT ALL THE NEW MEXICO BUSINESSES. THEIR LIVING WAGE IS A FAILURE UP THERE. IT IS NOT A LIVING WAGE. IT IS THE REASON WHY SANTA FE IS CRATERING AT 100 MILES AN HOUR, AND I THINK AFTER WHAT HAPPENED IN WISCONSIN, PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP TO THESE UNION AGREEMENTS AND ASKING QUESTIONS AND IT IS CAUSING PROBLEMS FOR THEM. >> I AM INTERESTED TO HEAR AS A JOURNALIST I AM SITTING HERE, I AM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT WAS UP AS FAR AS THIS DECISION. >> WAS IT A FACTOR OF STYLE VERSUS SUBSTANCE? THE WAY IT GOT SLIPPED IN BUGGED PEOPLE. >> AS A REPORTER, THAT IS

ALWAYS SOMETHING YOU LOOK FOR. THOSE WERE REPORTERS, TRYING TO ESCAPE PUBLIC NOTICE. BUT, I AM NOT SURE THAT IT IS SANTA FE TOTALLY CRATERING RIGHT NOW. >> WE DON'T WANT SANTA FE TO CRATER RIGHT NOW. >> NEW SUBJECT, CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE RELEASED NEARLY TWO DOZEN DATA SETS, STUFF LIKE BUILDING PERMITS, RESTAURANT INSPECTIONS, IN HOPES SOMEONE WILL USE IT TO CREATE A HELPFUL SMARTPHONE APP. THIS HAS BEEN GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY, DAN. IT IS AN INTERESTING THING, BUT IS THIS A GOOD USE OF TIME AND NOD TO THE TECH SET? >> I MEAN, IT IS INTERESTING. THE PROBLEM IS, I HAVE AN I-PHONE AND THERE IS AN APP FOR EVERYTHING. SO, I MEAN, APPS, TWO YEARS AGO, APPS WERE PRETTY COOL. SOMEONE HAD AN APP, YOU FOUND IT, YOU USED IT. NOW YOU CAN SEARCH APPS AND THERE IS 5,000 APPS. >> HERE WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE, FCC STARTED A CONTEST TWO YEARS AGO CALLED APPS FOR COMMUNITIES, BASICALLY TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO BUILD APPS SO PEOPLE WITH LOW AND MODERATE INCOME COULD LEARN HOW TO DO THINGS.

IS THIS A GOOD WAY TO GO FOR ALBUQUERQUE. >> IT IS NOT A NOVEL IDEA, I THINK THIS IS ONE THAT MAYOR BERRY GOT RIGHT AND I AM SUPPORTIVE OF IT. I THINK IT IS A WAY TO GET PEOPLE MORE INTERESTED IN COMMUNITY SERVICE, CITY SERVICES AND THE DATA SETS THEY PROVIDED, I THINK IS HELPFUL, FORWARD THINKING, AND THE ACTUAL CONTEST DOESN'T BEGIN UNTIL MID AUGUST BUT THEY HAVE HAD A FLOOD OF INTEREST ON THIS. >> IT IS A BIG DEAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WHITNEY, A LOT OF PLACES, EVEN IN FLORIDA, MIAMI, DADE COUNTY IS DOING THIS. >> I LOVED IT. WHEN I SAW IT IN THE PAPER, I THOUGHT IT WAS FANTASTIC. I THINK YOU'LL SEE A COUPLE OF 16 YEAR OLDS WIN THE CONTEST AND I THINK OF IT MORE IN SAFETY AND SECURITY ISSUES. I LIVE DOWN IN THE BOSQUE. IF YOU HAVE A FIRE NEARBY AND YOU HAVE AN APP THAT LETS YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE A BOSQUE FIRE, FOR EXAMPLE, OR A TRAIL IS CLOSED FOR A PARTICULAR REASON. I LOVED IT. >> IT IS THE FUTURE. >> GOD TO SEE YOU. TRIP, GOOD TO SEE YOU TOO. >> WE GOT A SUCCESSFUL JUNE PLEDGE DRIVE AND ARE HAPPY TO BE BACK ON THE AIR ON SUNDAY MORNINGS ONCE AGAIN. WE'RE POD CASTING NOW THROUGH ITUNES. SEARCH FOR US THERE OR FIND A LINK AND MUCH MORE ON OUR WEBSITE.

THAT IS NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG.I I AM GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.