New Mexico in Focus; 746; More Primary Gubernatorial Candidates

PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE McCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS ... CITY OFFICIALS BEGIN DETAILING POSSIBLE REFORMS IN THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT. >> WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS THE THINGS IN CULTURAL TERMS, AND THAT'S A MUCH LONGER TERM SOLUTION. WE'RE TALKING THREE YEARS, FIVE YEARS, AND OUT. >> PLUS, WE WRAP UP OUR INTERVIEWS WITH GUBINATORIAL HOPEFULS AHEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY. NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW! >> THIS WEEK, THE LINE LOOKS AT THE BOOM IN GAS AND OIL PRODUCTION HERE IN NEW MEXICO. THE BOOST IN DRILLING MEANS MORE REVENUE FOR THE STATE, CERTAINLY, BUT IT ALSO RAISES ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS. OFFICIALS ARE PROPOSING A NEW TASK FORCE TO ADDRESS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN ALBUQUERQUE IN THE WAKE OF NUMEROUS POLICE SHOOTINGS WHERE MENTAL ILLNESS WAS A FACTOR. MEANWHILE, THE MAYOR AND OTHERS ARE FLOATING PROPOSALS FOR REFORM AT APD.

WE TALK WITH DAVID CAMPBELL, A FORMER LONGSTANDING CITY OFFICIAL WHO SWITCHED CAREERS IN HIS LATE 50s TO WORK IN THE FOREIGN SERVICE. THE LINE WILL ALSO LOOK AT DEMOCRATIC HOPEFULS IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, AND THAT'S WHERE WE BEGIN TONIGHT. WE MET THREE CANDIDATES LAST WEEK, AND WE MEET TWO OTHERS TONIGHT. NMiF SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT MARTHA BURK, AUTHOR OF 'YOUR VOICE YOUR VOTE: THE SAVVY WOMAN'S GUIDE TO POWER, POLITICS, AND THE CHANGE WE NEED,' TALKS WITH ALAN WEBBER AND LAWRENCE RAEL. FIRST UP IS ALAN WEBBER. HE'S A PRO-BUSINESS DEMOCRAT WHO MOVED TO NEW MEXICO IN 2003. HE FOUNDED FAST COMPANY MAGAZINE. AND HE ALSO WORKED AS A POLICY ADVISOR FOR THE MAYOR OF PORTLAND, FOLLOWING HIM TO WASHINGTON, D.C. TO CONTINUE WORKING FOR HIM WHEN THE MAYOR WAS NAMED SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION. WEBBER HAS ADVOCATED FOR INVESTING MORE IN EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, CURBING TAX INCENTIVES FOR LURING LARGE COMPANIES, AND PROMOTING CLEAN ENERGY. >> ALAN WEBBER, LET'S GET TO THIS RIGHT OFF THE BAT. YOU'RE A RICH GUY FROM OUT OF STATE. THE MARTINEZ CAMPAIGN SAYS

YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE RADICAL FRINGE. WHO IS ALAN WEBBER, AND WHY IS HE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR? >> GREAT, MARTHA, THANKS. ALAN WEBBER IS A GUY WHO IS A PRO JOBS PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT. I GREW UP IN ST. LOUIS. MY DADDY SOLD CAMERAS FOR A LIVING, AND INSISTED THAT PUBLIC EDUCATION WAS THE LADDER TO OPPORTUNITY. I MOVED HERE WITH MY WIFE, CAME TO SANTA FE, BOUGHT A HOUSE, FELL IN LOVE AND STAYED. AND I HAD NO INTENTION OF RUNNING FOR OFFICE. ALTHOUGH I HAVE WORKED IN FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT, NEVER BEEN A CANDIDATE BEFORE. NOT A PROFESSIONAL POLITICIAN. I'M A BUSINESSMAN AND AN ENTREPRENEUR WHO REALLY JUST WANTS TO CONTRIBUTE TO MAKING NEW MEXICO A BETTER PLACE. >> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT A BIT. SINCE THE RECESSION. OH, BUT WE'RE THE FIRST IN POVERTY. >> YES. >> SO WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A BUSINESS GUY, WHICH NORMALLY IS SEEN AS CONSERVATIVE, BUT YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT. SO, WHAT YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS ECONOMY?

>> WELL, I KNOW HOW TO CREATE JOBS. I WORKED AT THE HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW AND RAN THAT MAGAZINE FOR TEN YEARS. STARTED MY OWN MAGAZINE, FAST COMPANY, RAN IT FOR TEN YEARS, AND IT BECAME THE FASTEST GROWING ENTREPRENEURIAL BUSINESS MAGAZINE IN AMERICAN HISTORY. SO I KNOW HOW TO CREATE JOBS, I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO GROW LOCAL, FAST-GROWING ENTREPRENEURIAL BUSINESSES, AND THAT'S THE BASIS OF THE NEW MEXICO ECONOMY. SO MY PLAN IS TO START AT THE GRASS ROOTS, TO WORK IN COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE AS GOVERNOR TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO HELP OUR SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZED COMPANIES AND BUSINESSES GROW AND ADD JOBS, BECAUSE UNDER GOVERNOR MARTINEZ, YOU'RE RIGHT, WE ARE DEAD LAST. >> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT GROWING AND ADDING JOBS. NOW, YOU WANT TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $10.10. >> YES. >> AND YOUR TARGET IS 125,000 NEW JOBS BY 2020, WHICH WOULD BE TWO TERMS. >> YES. >> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT WHEN SMALL BUSINESS IS GOING TO SAY, ALAN, IF WE RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE, IT'S

GOING TO HURT OUR BUSINESSES? >> WELL, IF THEY SAY THAT, WE'LL SIT DOWN AND HAVE A VERY HONEST CONVERSATION, BECAUSE THE FACTS OF ECONOMIC LIFE SAY, WHEN YOU RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE, YOU PUT MORE MONEY INTO CIRCULATION, YOU PUT MORE MONEY INTO WORKER'S POCKETS, THEY RECIRCULATE THAT MONEY, AND BUSINESSES GROW AND THRIVE, PARTICULARLY AT THE LOCAL COMMUNITY. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO STOP THIS FIXATION ON BRIBING BIG OUT-OF-STATE CORPORATIONS TO COME INTO NEW MEXICO WITH TAX BREAKS, AND USE OUR TAX DOLLARS TO HELP EXISTING BUSINESSES GROW. THAT MEANS THE EMPLOYEES AND THE OWNERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE COMMUNITY ALL BENEFIT FROM THAT KIND OF INCREASED ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, IT'S JUST NOT HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE GOVERNOR MARTINEZ WANTS TO THROW TAX BREAKS AT BIG OUT-OF-STATE COMPANIES. >> NOW, AS GOVERNOR, IF THE LEGISLATURE WON'T GO ALONG WITH REPEALING SOME OF THESE TAX BREAKS, HOW DO YOU GET AROUND THAT? >> WELL, I THINK YOU SIT DOWN AND NEGOTIATE WITH THE LEGISLATURE, AND IF THEY

WON'T AGREE, YOU SIMPLY FOCUS ON HOW YOU USE THOSE TAX BREAKS MORE CONSTRUCTIVELY. SO RATHER THAN GOING AFTER GREAT BIG WHALES AND YOU TRY TO BRIBE THEM TO COME IN, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO USING TAX BREAKS TO BRING BUSINESSES HERE THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, OR GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS WORKING BEFORE GOVERNOR MARTINEZ CUT THE LEGS OFF OF THE ENTERTAINMENT AND MOVIE INDUSTRY THAT WAS GROWING DRAMATICALLY WHEN SHE CAME INTO OFFICE. WHEN SHE CAME INTO OFFICE, NEW MEXICO WAS NO. 1 IN USING TAX BENEFITS TO GROW THE ENTERTAINMENT AND MOVIE INDUSTRY. TODAY WE'RE NO. 22. SHE SENT A LETTER TO HER SUPPORTERS AFTER SHE KNEECAPPED THAT INDUSTRY SAYING, I TAUGHT THOSE HOLLYWOOD LIBERALS A LESSON. SHE DIDN'T TEACH THE HOLLYWOOD LIBERALS A LESSON, SHE TOOK JOBS AWAY FROM NEW MEXICANS ALL OVER THE STATE WHO WERE BENEFITING FROM THAT CLEAN, ENVIRONMENTALLY ADVANTAGEOUS BUSINESS. >> SPEAKING OF THE ENVIRONMENT, YOU'RE BIG ON SOLAR ENERGY. YOU'VE ADVOCATED FOR IT.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO IN THAT REGARD, AND HOW IS THAT GOING TO MESH WITH NEW MEXICO'S OIL AND GAS INTERESTS? >> WELL, I THINK SOLAR IS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW MEXICO. WE OUGHT TO BE THE MOST SUSTAINABLE STATE IN AMERICA, AND I'M NOT JUST I'M TALKING ABOUT WIND, GEOTHERMAL, AND ALSO THE WAY WE USE OUR WATER. WE HAVE TO BE AN ENVIRONMENTAL LEADER IN AMERICA AND SET THE STAGE FOR THE FUTURE. SO I THINK OIL AND GAS BUSINESS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THE GAME IS CHANGING, THAT WE NEED TO BE A STATE ALL ABOUT RENEWABLE RESOURCES, IT'S NOT AN EITHER/OR CHOICE, IT'S A BOTH AND FUTURE. AND WE ARE -- AGAIN, THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY TELLING. WE'RE NO. 2 IN SOLAR POTENTIAL, BUT WE'RE WAY DOWN THE LEVEL WHEN IT COMES TO ACTUALLY REALIZING THAT SOLAR POTENTIAL. IT'S A GAP WE CAN FILL. CREATE JOBS AND CLEAN ENERGY. >> ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE TO THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS, WOMEN. YOU ARE THE ONLY CANDIDATE TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR THE WOMEN OF THIS STATE? WE'RE LOW WAGE WORKERS, WE'RE PRETTY FAR BEHIND IN THAT PAY GAP. TELL US ABOUT YOUR PLATFORM. >> WELL, I STARTED MY PLATFORM, AND THE FIRST PLANK I PUT OUT WAS THE WOMEN'S AGENDA, AND IT CAME FROM SITTING DOWN AND LISTENING TO WOMEN TALK ABOUT WHAT MATTERED IN THEIR LIVES AND IN THEIR FAMILIES LIVES. IT SEEMS VERY SIMPLE. EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK. YOU TALKED ABOUT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE, 70% OF THE KIDS IN NEW MEXICO LIVE IN A HOUSEHOLD WHERE THE WAGE EARNER HAS TO DEPEND ON A MINIMUM WAGE, AND MOSTLY THOSE ARE WOMEN, SINGLE FAMILY HEADS OF HOUSEHOLD. YOU WANT TO IMPROVE FAMILY LIFE, KIDS' FUTURES? RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE, HELP WOMEN HAVE A BETTER LIFE FOR THEIR FAMILIES. GIVE THEM JOB OPPORTUNITIES. MAKE WOMEN A CORE PART OF NEW MEXICO'S STRONG GROWING FUTURE. I THINK WOMEN ARE A HUGE PART OF NEW MEXICO'S WORKER BASE, BUT ALSO THE KEY TO FIGHTING POVERTY AND

IMPROVING EDUCATION. THAT'S WHY I STARTED MY PLATFORM WITH A WOMEN'S PLANK. >> NOW, WHERE DO YOU STAND ON REPRODUCTIVE ISSUES? >> MARTHA, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PRO CHOICE. THERE'S NOT EVEN A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. THAT'S THE WAY I WAS RAISED IN MY FAMILY, MY WIFE AND I HAVE HAD THAT AS A PART OF OUR RELATIONSHIP SINCE WE GOT MARRIED 40 YEARS AGO. >> WELL, TALKING ABOUT KIDS, LET'S MOVE TO EDUCATION, BECAUSE IT'S VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS STATE. WE HAVE AN EXTREMELY HIGH DROP-OUT RATE, AND YOU HAVE PUT OUT A TARGET OF 25% IMPROVEMENT IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. HOW DO YOU PLAN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT? >> AGAIN, IT'S PARTLY ABOUT RESOURCES, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT SEEING EDUCATION AS A SYSTEM. SO I WOULD START WITH EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION. I GAVE A SPEECH LAST JUNE. VOICES FOR CHILDREN ASKED ME TO MAKE THE CASE FOR INVESTING IN NEW MEXICO'S CHILDREN. I SAID THE CHILDREN OF NEW MEXICO ARE OUR FUTURE, WE NEED EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION FOR EVERY NEW MEXICO CHILD.

>> HOW WOULD YOU PAY FOR THAT? >> WELL, I'M GOING TO PAY FOR IT BY -- MY INITIAL PROPOSAL IS TO OPEN UP SOME OF THE PERMANENT FUND, USE SOME OF THAT MONEY TO PAY FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD. THAT'S OUR RAINY DAY FUND. THE NEW MEXICO CHILDREN TODAY ARE IN A DOWNPOUR, AND WE NEED TO INVEST IN THEM. WE NEED TO STOP THE WAR ON TEACHERS THAT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ HAS LAUNCHED. WE NEED TO INVEST MORE IN EDUCATION ACROSS THE BOARD. K-12, VOCATIONAL ED, TEACHER TRAINING AND DEVELOPMENT. THERE'S SO MUCH TO BE DONE. IT'S ALL UPSIDE. WE CAN WRITE A BRIGHT FUTURE IN EDUCATION IF WE DETACH OURSELVES FROM JEB BUSH'S PLUG-AND-PLAY SO-CALLED EDUCATION REFORM AGENDA. >> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT SURTAX YOU PROPOSE ON HIGH INCOME FOLKS TO HELP PAY FOR EDUCATION. IS IT 1% OR 2?%. >> IT'S 1% ON THE TOP WAGE EARNERS, WHICH TURNS OUT TO >> THIS IS ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE.

IT'S $200,000 AND OVER? >> THAT'S RIGHT. OR HOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE OFF OF DIVIDENDS AND THAT SORT OF THING? THEY'VE GOT AN INCOME OF $200,000, BUT THEY DIDN'T GO TO WORK EVERY DAY. >> NO, IT'S CORRELATED TO YOUR INCOME TAX RETURNS. >> SO THEY WOULD BE PART OF THAT? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> IS THAT GOING TO FLY WITH THE TAXPAYERS, DO YOU THINK? >> WELL, I THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE REAL CONCERNED NEW MEXICANS UNDERSTAND THAT IF WE WANT TO GET THE STATE MOVING AGAIN, WE HAVE TO FIND THE REVENUE TO PAY FOR EDUCATION. EDUCATION IS ALSO ABOUT JOBS, RIGHT? YOU TALKED ABOUT JOBS TO BEGIN WITH. IF YOU WANT A FUTURE IN THIS STATE FOR OUR YOUNG KIDS TO HAVE GOOD WORK, THEY HAVE TO HAVE GOOD SCHOOLS. THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN IN ORDER TO EARN. AND THAT'S WHY I THINK NEW MEXICANS REALIZE, WE'RE AT THE BOTTOM OF ALL THE THINGS WE OUGHT TO BE AT THE TOP OF. WE'RE LAST IN EDUCATION AND JOB GROWTH. WE COUPLE THOSE, WE START MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> WE HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE. LET ME TALK TO YOU ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO WIN THIS THING. YOU CAME IN SECOND AT THE PREPRIMARY CONVENTION. >> RIGHT. >> YOU ARE BY FAR AHEAD IN MONEY RAISING, AS FAR AS THE PRIMARY IS CONCERNED, AND YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR CAMPAIGN A LOT OF MONEY, BUT YOU'VE RAISED A LOT FROM DONORS. HOWEVER, THE SITTING GOVERNOR IS VERY POPULAR, AND SHE'S GOT 4 MILLION BUCKS IN THE BANK. CAN YOU OVERCOME THAT? >> ABSOLUTELY. FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE GOING TO POINT OUT HER RECORD, WHICH I THINK IS DEPLORABLE. IF YOU ASK PEOPLE, NAME ONE THING THAT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ HAS ACTUALLY DONE TO HELP NEW MEXICO; THEY LOOK AT THEIR SHOES. SECOND THING WE'RE GOING TO DO IS NATIONALIZE THIS RACE. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ON THE KOCH BROTHERS. WE'RE GOING TO PUT NEW MEXICO ON THE RIGHT TRACK TO THE FUTURE. I'M THE RIGHT GUY TO DO IT. >> ALAN WEBBER, THANKS SO MUCH. >> THANKS, MARTHA. GREAT TO VISIT. >> THIS WEEK, THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION UPHELD A FINDING THAT AN OFFICER USED IMPROPER FORCE. IT WAS THE FIRST SUCH FINDING IN FOUR YEARS BY THE COMMISSION.

ARE PROPOSING MORE MONEY FOR TRAINING AND CREATION OF A MENTAL HEALTH TASK FORCE. A NEW POLICY PREVENTS OFFICERS FROM CARRYING THAT OWN WEAPONS. THAT'S NEW, TOO, AND SOMETHING THE DOJ SAID CONTRIBUTES TO AN AGGRESSIVE CULTURE WITHIN APD. ANOTHER NEW POLICY FORBIDS SHOOTING AT A MOVING VEHICLE, AND MAYOR BERRY SAYS MORE CHANGES ARE COMING EVEN BEFORE THERE'S A FORMAL AGREEMENT WITH THE DOJ. JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT WEEK, WE HAVE LINE REGULAR, ATTORNEY AND SOCIAL MEDIA CONSULTANT SOPHIE MARTIN WITH US. BACK ONCE AGAIN IS ANOTHER REGULAR -- OH, SO GLAD SHE'S BACK. LAURA SANCHEZ-RIVET OF SANCHEZ LEGAL SOLUTIONS. CONGRATULATIONS. SHOW THE RING, SHOW THE RING, YOU'RE MARRIED NOW. THERE YOU GO. SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ABSENT MUCH TOO LONG FROM THIS TABLE IS WITH US AGAIN, HARRY VAN BUREN, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR WITH THE ANDERSON SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT AT UNM. AND WELCOME BACK FORMER STATE REP -- I'M SORRY; STATE SENATOR, MARK BOITANO. SORRY, MARK; MY FAULT THERE. HARRY, FIRST THINGS FIRST. THINGS ARE FAR FROM RESOLVED AT APD, CERTAINLY. WE SAW ANOTHER PROTEST AT COUNCIL LAST WEEK ON THURSDAY. BUT I'M INTERESTED IN IF YOU ARE SEEING SOME CRACKS OF

FORWARD PROGRESS HERE. WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THIS? >> MY SENSE IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF ATTENTION THAT'S BEING GIVEN TO THE STRUCTURAL SOLUTIONS. TELLING POLICE OFFICERS THAT THEY HAVE TO CARRY STANDARD STEP FORWARD. BUT I WAS TALKING TO MY CLASS ABOUT THIS -- I TEACH AN UNDERGRADUATE CLASS IN MANAGERIAL ETHICS, AND WE SPENT A HALF CLASS TRYING TO FIX THE APD, WHICH WAS A PRETTY MODEST TARGET, AND WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WAS TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON BEHIND THE DEPARTMENT. AND MY SENSE IS THAT A LOT OF THESE STRUCTURAL THINGS, SUCH AS THE LAPEL CAMS AND THE GUNS, REALLY DON'T GET AT THE CULTURAL ELEMENT. THERE REALLY SEEMS TO BE A MISMATCH BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY. SO IN SOME SENSE, THE QUESTION BECOMES, HOW DO YOU FIX THAT? HOW DO YOU FIX THE CULTURE OF THE DEPARTMENT SO THAT THE PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT TRUST THE COMMUNITY, AND VICE VERA. >> WHAT WAS THE RESULT IN THE CLASS TO THAT VERY QUESTION? I'M CURIOUS. >> THEY ESSENTIALLY SAID, IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY,

VERY LONG HAUL, BECAUSE IT'S ONE THING TO PASS A POLICY OR TO HAVE TRAINING -- NOW, DON'T GET ME WRONG, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT -- BUT WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS TO THINK IN CULTURAL TERMS, AND THAT'S A MUCH LONGER TERM SOLUTION. WE'RE TALKING THREE YEARS, FIVE YEARS, AND OUT. SO IN SOME SENSE, THE PROTESTORS ARE HOPING FOR THIS IMMEDIATE QUICK FIX, AND THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO WORK. >> INTERESTING. THE IRO, ROBIN HAMMER, WHO HAS COME UNDER SOME HEAT FOR SOME TIME NOW, AND IN THE DOJ REPORT WAS ALIGNED A LITTLE TOO CLOSE WITH THE DEPARTMENT, SHE DROPPED THE HAMMER -- SORRY -- ON SOMEBODY, ON AN OFFICER. >> I DIDN'T THINK OF THAT. >> INTERESTING, NO ONE IN THE SITUATION SHE RULED ON, NO ONE DIED, BUT A BULLET DID GO INTO AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL BUILDING, WHICH IS BAD ENOUGH, AS THEY SAY. >> YES, A SHOCKING REMINDER. I THINK THAT OF THE EFFECTS PROTEST, FROM THE DISCUSSION, ETC., THIS STRIKES ME AS THE MOST IMMEDIATE CHANGE, CONCRETE CHANGE THAT WE'VE SEEN, THIS MOVE ON THE PART OF

MS. HAMMER TO -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S GOING TO EXPRESS IT THIS WAY, BUT MY SENSE OF IT IS, SHE'S RE-THOUGHT ABOUT HOW SHE MANAGES HER INVESTIGATIONS, HOW SHE MANAGES HER VIEW OF APD, AND I HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT A POSITIVE STEP. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A TENDENCY TO SAY, WELL THERE ARE LAWS, THERE ARE REGULATIONS, THERE ARE RULES, BUT THERE'S ALSO THE INTERPRETATION OF THOSE THINGS, AND IT FEELS TO ME THAT FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS THE INTERPRETATION HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT LAX IN TERMS OF HOW WE LOOK AT APD. WE NEED TO BE LOOKING CAREFULLY AT THE RESULTS OF THOSE SHOOTINGS, AND THERE ARE INTERNAL MECHANISMS, BUT IF THEY'RE BROKEN, THEY'RE NOT WORKING, THEN THAT'S GOING TO LEAD TO THAT ONGOING LACK OF TRUST THAT HARRY WAS TALKING ABOUT. >> SENATOR, IT'S INTERESTING HOW THE RULING ALSO INVOLVED SWAT, WHICH WAS, AGAIN, IN THE DOJ REPORT A BIG PROBLEM OUT THERE. IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S NO ONE REALLY WATCHDOGGING THIS END OF OUR BUSINESS HERE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU THINK THIS MIGHT BE THE BEGINNING OF SOMETHING, FIRST DOMINO

TO GO OVER, ABOUT SWAT SPECIFICALLY AND HOW WE LOOK AT SWAT AND HOW WE ACCEPT IT IN OUR COMMUNITY. OF THE DEBATE. YOU KNOW, HARRY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE CULTURE, AND I THINK ONE BAD APPLE DOESN'T SPOIL THE WHOLE BUNCH, BUT I THINK SOMETIMES THERE'S A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH PRIVATE SWAGGER IN THE DEPARTMENT AND NOT ENOUGH EMPHASIS ON PUBLIC SAFETY. SO THERE'S A LOT OF PIECES TO THIS PUZZLE. I THINK WEAPONRY DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF WE LIMIT -- I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE OFFICERS CHOICE, BUT PERHAPS LIMIT THE CHOICES THAT THEY HAVE. I THINK THAT'S A BIG DEAL. REPORTING ACCOUNTABILITY IS A BIG DEAL. FOR ME, TWO OR THREE DAYS AFTER AN INCIDENT IS TOO LONG TO WAIT. I MEAN, I REMEMBER FROM COLLEGE, ACCIDENTS AND SO FORTH, YOU SEE THEM, AND THEN THREE OR FOUR DAYS LATER, YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE FACTS ARE VERY, VERY VAGUE. SO I THINK THERE'S A BIG PUZZLE THAT NEEDS TO BE PUT TOGETHER, I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. >> WHAT WE'RE NOT DOING, HOWEVER, IS SEEING ANYTHING ON VIDEO FROM LAPEL CAMERAS, APPARENTLY, AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO ON THIS, LAURA, THE

CULTURE, THE IDEA THAT YOU MUST TURN THESE THINGS ON. AND IT SEEMS TO ME WHAT THE IRO IS ALSO SAYING IS, LOOK, SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET DUNKED HERE FOR NOT TURNING ON THIS CAMERA. SOMEONE IS GOING TO BE NEXT IN LINE HERE IT SEEMS TO ME. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? SOMETHING HAS TO BE -- ACCOUNTABILITY IS WHAT I'M GETTING AT HERE FOR THE LAPEL CAMERAS. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE REPORT, AN AREA THAT THEY HIGHLIGHTED ABOUT THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS, WAS THAT THERE WAS A LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND A LACK OF SYSTEMS TO ENSURE THAT KIND OF ACCOUNTABILITY, AND THAT TIES BACK INTO THE PUBLIC TRUST. WHEN YOU GO HAND-IN-HAND, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE PUBLIC TRUST WITHOUT SOME LEVEL OF ASSURANCE OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE SYSTEM. AND I THINK I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT THIS HAS TO BE A LONG-TERM SOLUTION. UNFORTUNATELY, WE LIVE IN AN IMMEDIATE SORT OF INSTANT GRATIFICATION KIND OF WORLD WHERE WE WANT TO SEE IMMEDIATE CHANGE, AND THE ONLY KIND OF IMMEDIATE CHANGE THAT PEOPLE SEEM TO BE SATISFIED WITH IS A CHANGE IN THE PEOPLE AT THE HELM. SO ASIDE FROM SOMEBODY BEING REMOVED ALL TOGETHER, I JUST DON'T SEE PEOPLE BEING SATISFIED ON THAT LEVEL. SO IT'S A LOT ABOUT MANAGING, I THINK, THE

EXPECTATIONS OF THE COMMUNITY. I THINK THEY WOULD BE WELL SERVED TO BE AS TRANSPARENT AS THEY CAN BE, HOLDING AS MANY STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS AS THEY CAN, JUST REGAINING THAT PUBLIC TRUST THAT THEY'VE ERODED RECENTLY. >> I'M GLAD YOU SAID THAT. YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY OF THOSE, YOU JUST CAN'T. CITY COUNCIL, SOPHIE, GETTING SERIOUS ABOUT PUTTING SOME MONEY BEHIND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. >> I THOUGHT THERE WAS A REALLY INTERESTING INITIATIVE, WAS IT DAN LEWIS WHO PUT THAT FORWARD, THE IDEA OF DOUBLING THE MONEY THAT THE MAYOR HAS REQUESTED. I THINK, TO BE HONEST, I THINK JUST SAYING TIMES TWO AND IT'S TAKEN CARE OF IS A LITTLE FLIP. BUT LOOKING AT WHERE THE MONEY WOULD GO, THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND THAT THESE ARE AREAS THAT NEED FUNDING, AND PROBABLY MORE FUNDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL IS PUTTING FORWARD. BUT IT IS A STEP FORWARD. SO IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT APPEARS TO BE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FIRMING UP AROUND LEWIS' PROPOSAL. WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT GOES. BUT MONEY IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE, AS WE HEAR FROM OUR FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE

DEBATE. AND TO LAURA'S POINT, THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE A LONG-TERM PROBLEM WITH INCONSISTENT MANAGEMENT WITHIN APD. THAT'S A PROCESS WHERE YOU MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE POLICIES REALLY MATTER, AND THEN YOU DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THEM. AND THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT I THINK APD REALLY HAS NOT TAKEN UP APPROPRIATELY. >> RIGHT. HARRY, THE MAYOR SAYS, AS I MENTIONED IN THE SET-UP, HE'S GOT SOME OTHER IDEAS COMING THAT'S GOING TO KIND OF GET AHEAD OF THE CURVE A LITTLE BIT, WHICH IS NICE, AND EVERYONE'S I'M SURE HAPPY ABOUT THAT. WHAT CAN HE REALLY DO, THOUGH, AT THIS POINT? THERE'S NOTHING SPECIFIC I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO COME UP WITH, BUT IS THERE REALLY ANYTHING HE CAN DO AT THIS POINT BEFORE THE DOJ COMES OUT WITH THEIR STUFF? >> I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY ANYTHING HE CAN DO BEFORE THE DOJ CAN COME, IN GENERAL, FOR A SPECIFIC PROGRAMS. I THINK WHAT HE'S GOT TO DO ARE THE THINGS THAT HE'S DOING NOW, WHERE HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE, HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MANAGEMENT AT APD, AND I THINK --

>> BUT IS HE GETTING TO THE CULTURE THING YOU MENTIONED? >> HE MAY NOT BE GETTING TO THE CULTURE THING, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR HIM TO SIGNAL THAT, AND FOR THE FOLKS AT THE DEPARTMENT, PARTICULARLY MANAGEMENT, TO SIGNAL THAT, AS WELL. SO TO GO TO SOPHIE'S POINT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT APD'S MANAGEMENT HAS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THERE ARE TWO AUDIENCES. THERE'S THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHO IS AN AUDIENCE FOR WHAT APD IS DOING, AND THERE'S ALSO THE RANK AND FILE OFFICERS. SO IT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT TRICK TO PULL OFF IN TERMS OF SATISFYING BOTH OF THOSE AUDIENCES, BUT THERE'S REALLY NO WAY FORWARD UNLESS THE MANAGEMENT CAN DO THAT. THERE'S WHERE I THINK MAYOR BERRY CAN BE HELPFUL. >> INTERESTING. I LIKE THAT TAKE THERE. BY THE WAY, INTERESTING BIT THAT SENATE DEMOCRATS PUT OUT YESTERDAY. DID ANYBODY SEE THAT E-MAIL? MICHAEL SANCHEZ HAD A BILL 18 YEARS AGO. SENATOR, WHY DON'T YOU SPEAK TO THAT FOR A SECOND. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT, I'M SURE. IT'S FASCINATING. >> THE MENTAL HEALTH PIECE OF THE PROBLEM IS HUGE. THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE TRAINING. WE NEED TO LOOK AT EVENTS, LEARN FROM THEM, AND LOOK FORWARD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE CAN DO BETTER. I'M REALLY CONCERNED, THOUGH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

CITY COUNCIL AND STATE LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATION, BECAUSE WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS WE DON'T WANT TO TELL THE UNION WHAT TO DO IN LAW IN TERMS OF TRAINING, IN TERMS OF EDUCATION. ANY KIND OF CONTINUING EDUCATION SHOULD BE DEVELOPED BY THE PROFESSIONALS. BY THE TEACHERS, BY APPRAISERS, BY THE POLICE UNION. SO I'M KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. SO, YES, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ON THE MENTAL HEALTH FRONT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD BE TELLING THE POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION, OR THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE TELLING THEM SPECIFICALLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. >> THAT'S INTERESTING. COMES UP, OUR NEXT CANDIDATE INTERVIEW WITH LAWRENCE RAEL. >> I THINK SHE'S GOING TO BE REALLY, REALLY TOUGH TO BEAT. SHE'S POPULAR. HER POLICY POSITIONS ARE VERY FOCUSED, VERY SMALL IN COMPARISON TO BILL RICHARDSON. HER CEREMONIAL DUTIES, SHE TAKES A LOT OF TIME DOING THAT, GETTING OUT, GIVING

TALKS, MEETING KIDS, THAT KIND OF STUFF. >> LAWRENCE RAEL WORKED FOR FORMER GOVERNOR TONEY ANAYA AND FORMER SENATOR JEFF BINGAMAN BEFORE SERVING AS CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER WITH THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE WITH THREE DIFFERENT MAYORS. RAEL WENT ON TO BE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MID REGION COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS, AND THEN WAS APPOINTED TO THE FEDERAL FOREIGN SERVICES AGENCY BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. HIS CAMPAIGN IS TOUTED AS GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE WHERE HE HAS BUILT UP INFRASTRUCTURE AND HELPED CREATE JOBS, AND HE HAS FOCUSED ON DIVERSIFYING THE STATE'S ECONOMY. >> LAWRENCE RAEL, RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY FIRST. WE HAVE A TWO-EDGED SWORD IN NEW MEXICO; HIGHEST POVERTY RATE IN THE NATION, LOWEST JOB CREATION OF ANY STATE SINCE THE RECESSION. NOW, YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT CREATING JOBS WHEN YOU WERE CITY ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, AND YOU SAY YOU CREATED THOUSANDS OF

JOBS AND YOU DID RECRUIT BUSINESSES, SUCH AS TEMPUR-PEDIC, TO THE CITY. WHAT EXACT ROLE DID YOU HAVE IN CREATING THOSE JOBS? >> WELL, I WILL TELL YOU, I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MEXICO KNOW THAT THE ECONOMY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, AND JOBS. OUR PEOPLE ARE LEAVING NEW MEXICO, AS WE ALL KNOW. WELL, MY ROLE AT THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE WAS TO SIT ACROSS THE TABLE AND VISIT WITH THE CEO'S OF THESE COMPANIES AND BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THEM INVEST IN NEW MEXICO, WHAT NEW MEXICO HAS TO OFFER IN TERMS OF ITS WORKFORCE, THE QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES, ETC., THAT REALLY HELP CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMPANIES THAT ARE LOOKING AT CITIES TO LOCATE. SO I'VE BEEN THERE AT THE TABLE ROLLING UP THE SLEEVES, WORKING WITH FOLKS, MAKING SURE THAT WE PRESENT THE BEST OPPORTUNITIES FOR A COMPANY TO LOCATE TO THE COMMUNITY; IN THIS CASE, ALBUQUERQUE. BUT ALSO ABOUT HOW YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET OTHER CEO'S WHO ARE A PART OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO SUPPORT THAT EFFORT.

BECAUSE MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, CEO'S TALK TO EACH OTHER. THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. IS IT REALLY A GREAT WORKFORCE? IS IT A GOOD PLACE TO DO BUSINESS? AND ONCE YOU GET TO THAT PROCESS OF TALKING TO OTHERS, YOU CAN REST ASSURED THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO DO THEIR OWN HOMEWORK. AND MY ROLE WAS SIMPLY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WORKED TOGETHER TO PROVIDE THEM THE BEST OPPORTUNITIES TO LOCATE TO NEW MEXICO, AND BRING THOSE JOBS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO TODAY IN NEW MEXICO. >> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. DEVELOPMENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> AND YOU HAVE SAID YOU WANT TO TAKE A REGIONAL APPROACH TO THAT, THAT ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL. TALK TO US A LITTLE ABOUT THAT. >> WELL, EVERY REGION OF NEW MEXICO HAS SOME GREAT ASSETS TO IT. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE AND YOU LOOK AT THE CULTURAL ISSUES AND THE GREAT VISTAS THAT WE HAVE AND THE GREAT SCENIC LANDSCAPES, ETC., LIKE THE RIO GRANDE OF THE NORTH NATIONAL MONUMENT THAT WAS ESTABLISHED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, I WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE GREEN CHAMBER, AND WE LED THE BUSINESS EFFORT TO GET THAT ESTABLISHED. WHY? BECAUSE IT PRESERVES

THE LAND AND CREATES JOBS IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO. THAT'S NORTHERN NEW MEXICO'S ASSETS, ITS BEAUTIFUL VISTAS, ETC., AND ITS BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPES, AND ITS TOURISM INDUSTRY, WHICH IS IMPORTANT TO THE NORTH. IN THE CENTRAL AREA, WE HAVE THE NATIONAL LABS. WE HAVE LOS ALAMOS AND WE HAVE SANDIA. THEY CAN BECOME GREAT ASSETS FOR THIS AREA AND LOOK AT CREATING AN ECOSYSTEM TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUNG ENTREPRENEURS TO CREATE JOBS AND GROW THEIR COMPANIES. IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE, THE BORDER AND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE TO CREATE WHAT I CALL THE GATEWAY TO LATIN AMERICA. SO REGIONALIZATION IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE. WHEN YOU GET COMMUNITIES AND REGIONS TO WORK TOGETHER, IT'S AN ECONOMY OF SCALE IN TERMS OF THE DOLLARS THAT WE NEED TO INVEST IN DEVELOPING THOSE PLANS, BUT IT ALSO CREATES OPPORTUNITIES FOR FOLKS TO WORK TOGETHER, AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES REGIONS WORK, AND THAT'S WHY REGIONAL APPROACHES MAKE SO MUCH SENSE. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT WE NEED IN ALL THE REGIONS, AND THAT'S HIGHER WAGES. >> RIGHT. >> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MINIMUM WAGE, AND HOW QUICKLY -- IF YOU WOULD RAISE IT, FIRST OF ALL, AND

IF YOU WOULD, HOW QUICKLY WOULD YOU TRY TO DO THAT? >> WELL, WE KNOW THAT THE DISPARITY BETWEEN WAGES IS INCREDIBLE. AGAIN, ANOTHER PLACE THAT WE LEAD THE NATION IN THE DISPARITY OF WAGES. WE NEED TO ABSOLUTELY GET TO THE 10.10, IF YOU WILL. $10.10 AN HOUR. I WOULD CERTAINLY DO THAT IMMEDIATELY IN MY FIRST LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH THE LEGISLATURE, AND THEN BEGIN TO CREATE A STRUCTURE IN PLACE WHERE WAGE IS INCREASED ON A PRO RATA BASIS, IF YOU WILL, BASED ON EITHER THE INDEX OR WHATEVER STRUCTURE WE END UP AGREEING TO. BUT THE POINT IS THAT WE NEED TO MOVE THAT ISSUE FORWARD VERY QUICKLY. FAMILIES ARE DEPENDENT ON MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN, TO SUPPORT THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES IN NEW MEXICO, AND AT THIS POINT THIS GOVERNOR HAS COMPLETELY TURNED HER BACK ON THOSE FOLKS, AND THAT'S NOT RIGHT FOR NEW MEXICO'S FAMILIES. >> ONE MORE ECONOMIC QUESTION, AND QUICKLY. WHAT ABOUT THE TAX STRUCTURE IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING BUSINESS?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? WOULD YOU CHANGE THAT? AND IF SO, HOW? >> I WOULD TELL YOU, MARTHA, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GO BACK AND LOOK AT ALL OF THE EXEMPTIONS THAT WE HAVE GIVEN THROUGHOUT THE YEARS ON THE GROSS RECEIPTS TAX, AND HAVE A VERY STRONG REVIEW AND DISCUSSION ABOUT EXEMPTIONS ARE WORKING FOR NEW MEXICO. IF WE JUST DID THAT ALONE -- AND THIS GOVERNOR VETOED THAT SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND DID NOT WANT TO HAVE A DISCUSSION. THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THOSE TAXES MAKE SENSE, AND THEN LOOK AT WHAT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO CREATE A STRONGER BUSINESS CLIMATE IN NEW MEXICO, AND CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OTHERS TO COME IN. BUT THIS PIECEMEAL APPROACH THAT WE'RE DOING NOW, WHERE THERE'S NOT A LONG-TERM POLICY FOR IT, DOES NOTHING FOR NEW MEXICO IN THE LONG-TERM, AND QUITE FRANKLY PUTS US IN A COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGE ON MANY OF THESE ISSUES BECAUSE WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THIS HOLISTICALLY. WE'RE LOOKING AT IT ONE COMPANY AT A TIME. WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT OUR ENTIRE TAX STRUCTURE AND LOOKING AT THESE EXEMPTIONS, AND THEN COMING BACK AND HAVING A REAL GOOD DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT MAKES SENSE AND WHERE DO WE WANT TO COMPETE IN NEW MEXICO

GIVEN WHO WE WANT TO ATTRACT TO OUR STATE. >> NOW, TALKING ABOUT TAXES, YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOU THINK STRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE OVERHAULED. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> BUT YOU HAVE SAID, BUT LET'S NOT START WITH A TAX ON GROCERIES. THE IMPLICATION IS THAT SUSANA MARTINEZ IS IN FAVOR OF THAT. HAS SHE ACTUALLY SAID THAT? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT SHE'S ACTUALLY SAID THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE TODAY THAT HAVE ACTUALLY VOTED FOR THAT TO OCCUR. AND MY PERSPECTIVE IS THIS. THE FOOD TAX IS NOT WHERE YOU START. AGAIN, YOU LOOK AT THESE EXEMPTIONS. FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE EXEMPTIONS ON JET FUEL, WHICH WAS A PROCESS TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES TO BRING IN FOLKS THAT WERE FLYING INTO ALBUQUERQUE AND GIVING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES HERE. WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY BE ONE EXEMPTION THAT MAY NOT BE SERVING NEW MEXICO WELL. SO I WOULD SAY, START WITH THE EXEMPTIONS, LOOK AT THOSE IN A HOLISTIC MANNER, AND THEN LOOK AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER, LOOK AT WHERE

WE WANT TO COMPETE, WHAT ARE THE ISSUES, ETC. BUT MAKE SURE THAT NEW MEXICANS ARE NOT BEING SADDLED WITH ADDITIONAL TAXES BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO GIVE EXEMPTIONS TO OTHERS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT COME. >> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS, WOMEN. YOU HAVE CHARACTERIZED THE MINIMUM WAGE AS A WOMEN'S ISSUE, WHICH IT CERTAINLY IS, BECAUSE WOMEN ARE THE MAJORITY MAKING THE MINIMUM WAGE. >> RIGHT. >> I WANT TO ASK YOU KIND OF A TWO-FACED QUESTION HERE. WHAT WOULD YOU DO ABOUT THE GENDER PAY GAP IN NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS SUBSTANTIAL? AND, WHERE DO YOU STAND ON REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE? BECAUSE WE DON'T FIND ANYTHING IN YOUR MATERIAL ON THAT. >> OKAY. WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, I TRULY BELIEVE EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK, FOR EQUAL VALUE. WOMEN SHOULD BE PAID AT THE SAME RATE AS MEN, AND WHAT I WOULD DO IS, I WOULD OVERHAUL THE STATE PERSONNEL SYSTEM IMMEDIATELY TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN IN COMPARABLE JOBS WITH MEN ARE PAID EQUAL, AND THAT WE BEGIN TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION EVEN IN THE

PRIVATE SECTOR, TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN ARE -- THAT MY DAUGHTER HAS THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT MY SON DOES FOR EQUAL WORK. >> AND REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE? >> REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE, YOU KNOW, MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES ON REPRODUCTIVE ISSUES, AND I SUPPORT WOMEN'S RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES ON THAT ISSUE. >> OKAY. NOW, LET'S MOVE TO EDUCATION QUICKLY. WHAT ABOUT OUR LOUSY GRADUATION RATE? YOU TALK ABOUT TEACHER PAY A LOT, BUT YOU REALLY DON'T ADDRESS THE GRADUATION RATE DIRECTLY. TELL US WHAT YOU WOULD DO ABOUT THAT. >> WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM TODAY IS UNDER ATTACK BY THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND MY CONCERN IS THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON THE WRONG THINGS. WE KEEP CONSISTENTLY WANTING TO FOCUS IN THIS ADMINSTRATION ON OUR TEACHERS, AND WHERE WE REALLY HAVE TO FOCUS IS, HOW DO WE KEEP OUR CHILDREN IN SCHOOL? HOW DO WE MAKE SCHOOL RELEVANT FOR THEM SO THAT THEY CONTINUE TO GRADUATE? AND ONE IS TO INVEST IN TECHNOLOGY, AND TO INVEST IN OTHER OPPORTUNITIES LIKE VOCATIONAL EDUCATION AND

OTHER PROGRAMS. NOT EVERY CHILD IS GOING TO BE -- WANTS TO GO TO COLLEGE. SO WE NEED TO REALLY BECOME VERY ACTIVE IN THAT ARENA. PLUS, ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS FOR FOLKS THAT DROP OUT OF THE SYSTEM ARE IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEXICO. >> THANK YOU. NOW, PRETTY MUCH LET'S WIND UP WITH THIS. YOU'RE SECOND IN FUNDRAISING, BUT YOU ARE STILL PRETTY FAR BEHIND THE FRONTRUNNER IN THE PRIMARY, AND EVERYBODY IS BEHIND THE GOVERNOR, WHO HAS OVER $4 MILLION ALREADY. SO, YOU'VE GOT LESS THAN A 10th OF THAT, AND YOU'RE TIED FOR 3rd IN THE POLLS. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WIN THIS ELECTION? >> WELL, I WILL TELL YOU THAT IT'S ABOUT GRASSROOTS. IT'S ABOUT GOING OUT THERE IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE WE HAVE HAD A VERY STRONG GRASSROOTS EFFORT. WE HAVE A SCHOOL BUS THAT WE RETROFITTED THAT WE USE TO GO OUT ALL OVER THE STATE TO TALK TO FOLKS. WE JUST WENT OFF ON TV JUST TODAY WITH OUR AD, OUR FIRST CAMPAIGN AD, AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A

GRASSROOTS EFFORT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S ABOUT WHO VOTES AND GETTING THE WORD OUT TO PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO. THE MONEY IS IMPORTANT, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, BUT I ALSO HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF WORKING IN NEW MEXICO. I KNOW NEW MEXICO VERY WELL, AND I KNOW NEW MEXICO VOTERS WILL REMEMBER THE WORK THAT I HAVE DONE AND THE MANY EFFORTS THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH IN NEW MEXICO. SO TO ME, IT'S ABOUT THE GRASSROOTS EFFORT, AND IT'S ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT VOTERS KNOW THERE ARE SOME REAL CHOICES HERE. THE REAL CHOICE IS, YOU CAN HAVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, OR YOU CAN HAVE SOMEONE ELECTED TO OFFICE, LAWRENCE RAEL, WHO HAS DONE GREAT THINGS IN NEW MEXICO, HAS CREATED OPPORTUNITIES, JOBS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND WILL BE FOCUSED ON EDUCATION AND THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN. >> THANK YOU, LAWRENCE RAEL. >> THANK YOU. >> THE PRIMARIES ARE ON JUNE 3rd, AND THERE ARE FIVE DEMOCRATIC HOPEFULS. AS OUR COLLEAGUE STEVE TERRELL PUT IT, THE POLLS AREN'T ENCOURAGING. THE MONEY LOOKS DOWNRIGHT BEING PRETTY POLITE, SAVING MOST OF THEIR CRITICISM FOR

GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ. ALSO, THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION HAS ALREADY DECIDED IT'S A LONG-SHOT TO DEFEAT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ, SO IT'S NOT COMMITTING MONEY TO THE RACE SO FOR. SENATOR, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE? LET'S GO ON THE LAST BIT THERE FIRST. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LAST WEEK, BUT THE DGA SAYING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE SENDING ANY MONEY THIS WAY, DOES THAT MAKE MARKED DIFFERENCE IN THIS PRIMARY? DOES THAT DO ANYTHING FOR THESE PRIMARY HOPEFULS? OR IS THAT SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT DOWN THE ROAD, >> IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. THE REALITY IS THE GOVERNOR HAS HIGH APPROVAL RATINGS. YOU KNOW, SHE'S KIND OF THE ANTITHESIS OF BILL RICHARDSON. BILL RICHARDSON WAS AN ACTIVIST GOVERNOR, HE THOUGHT GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, INCLUDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT; SPACEPORT DEVELOPMENT, THAT KIND THING. SHE'S GOT A NARROW FOCUS OF ISSUES, AND SHE'S JUST CONSTANTLY HAMMERING AWAY AT THOSE ISSUES. A GOVERNOR AND AN EXECUTIVE IS AHEAD -- >> DOES ALL THAT ADD UP TO, SHE'S NOT DEFEATABLE? I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT'S INTERESTING TO HEAR THIS QUOTE FROM THE DGA ABOUT THIS.

IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE A WHITE FLAG IS GOINGS UP. DOES ANYBODY NEED THAT AT THIS POINT? >> YEAH, I THINK SHE'S GOING TO BE REALLY, REALLY TOUGH TO BEAT. SHE'S POPULAR. HEAD OF STATE, HEAD OF GOVERNMENT, HER POLICY POSITIONS ARE VERY FOCUSED, VERY SMALL IN COMPARISON TO BILL RICHARDSON. HER CEREMONIAL DUTIES, SHE TAKES A LOT OF TIME DOING THAT, GETTING OUT, GIVING TALKS, MEETING KIDS, THAT KIND OF STUFF. MEETS PEOPLE, CONNECTS TO PEOPLE. SUSANA MARTINEZ, PEOPLE LIKE HER. I THINK THAT'S A HUGE ISSUE. WHEN THEY MEET HER, WHEN THEY SHAKE HER HAND, THEY FEEL WARMTH AND THEY LIKE HER. SO SHE'LL BE TOUGH TO BEAT. >> SURE, ABSOLUTELY. SOPHIE, LET'S KIND OF GO DOWN THE LIST HERE. GARY KING, A LOT OF THE CHATTER SEEMS TO BE ABOUT WHY IS HE NOT RAISING MORE MONEY WITH ALL THIS NAME ID AND ALL THIS -- >> I THINK THE QUESTION ISN'T JUST WHY IS HE NOT RAISING MORE MONEY, BUT ALSO, WHY DOES HE SEEM SO QUIET IN THIS RACE IN GENERAL. YOU KNOW, I REFLECT ON THE PROFILE THAT THE NEW MEXICAN UP IN SANTA FE DID ON HIM ALMOST FELT NOSTOLOGIC FOR THE KING NAME, AND HE DOES

HAVE PHENOMENAL NAME RECOGNITION IN THE STATE. IS THAT ENOUGH TO PULL HIM AHEAD IN THE FACE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE SORT OF CAMPAIGN INACTIVITY? AND, YOU KNOW, I WILL ADMIT I'M NOT GETTING PHONE CALLS FROM THE KING CAMPAIGN, SO MAYBE THEY ARE DOING THINGS THAT I'M NOT SEEING. BUT IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THIS IS A VERY SOFT AND SOMEWHAT PASSIVE CAMPAIGN. I WILL SAY, IT MAY STILL BE SUCCESSFUL IN PARTS OF THE STATE WHERE THE KING NAME IS STILL CHERISHED. >> HARRY, IT'S INTERESTING TO ME, I FIND IT INTERESTING -- AND WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THESE OTHER TWO FOLKS HERE IN A SECOND -- BUT ALAN WEBBER AND LAWRENCE RAEL HAVE TV UP, BUT GARY KING DOESN'T. >> RIGHT. >> IF YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED ME THIS LAST YEAR, I WOULD HAVE BET HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST WITH TV UP. IT'S AMAZING TO ME. A LACK OF EXCITEMENT AMONG DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE FOR KING RIGHT NOW. IT'S REALLY UNCLEAR WHERE THE EXCITEMENT IS RIGHT NOW.

AND SOPHIE IS RIGHT, MAYBE THE KING NAME WILL BE ABLE TO CARRY HIM, WHERE AS SOMEONE LIKE ALAN WEBBER HAS TO DO A LOT OF WORK TO TRY TO BUILD HIS NAME RECOGNITION. IT'S A REALLY, REALLY STRANGE PRIMARY SEASON. >> INTERESTING ENOUGH. ALAN WEBBER, AS JUST MENTIONED, HE HAS TELEVISION UP, AND HE HAS MONEY IN THE BANK, AND I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT HARRY JUST SAID. IS HE THE ONE THAT'S GENERATING THE EXCITEMENT RIGHT NOW? IS HE THE MOST EXCITING OF THE PRIMARY FOLKS RIGHT NOW? >> THAT'S A BIG QUESTION, SPEAKING FOR MY PARTY. PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT I SEE. I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT HE'S GOT THE POTENTIAL TO GENERATE MORE EXCITEMENT BECAUSE OF WHO'S SUPPORTING HIM. HE HAS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE TRADITIONAL RANK AND FILE DEMOCRATS, FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO SORT OF BE MORE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWINGS GARY KING BECAUSE OF THE LEGACY OF THE KING NAME. I THINK HE BRINGS A LOT MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE ON THE EDGE, THINKING A LITTLE MORE OUT OF THE BOX, TO USE A REALLY BAD CLICHE. AND SO I THINK THERE'S A POTENTIAL THERE TO HAVE A

LOT MORE OF A GROUND SWELL OF SUPPORT. BUT IT'S STILL, I THINK, ACROSS THE BOARD. I THINK EVERYBODY -- YOU KNOW, I HAD THE PLEASURE, I SHOULD MENTION, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO RIGHT AFTER MY HONEYMOON TO COME IN, AND THE PARTY ASKED ME TO MODERATE A PANEL DISCUSSION, A FORUM BETWEEN ALL FIVE OF THEM, AND IT WAS INTERESTING TO HEAR ALL OF THEM ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE WALKED AWAY FROM THERE AS I DID, THINKING, FOR ONE, I WAS GLAD TO SEE SUCH A STRONG PANEL OF CANDIDATES, OF POTENTIAL NOMINEES. THE DISAPPOINTING PART IS THAT I WASN'T ABLE, EVEN STILL AFTER THAT, TO MAKE A DECISION. I'M STILL ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HASN'T PICKED A HORSE YET. BUT I WILL SAY, BACK TO THE DGA ISSUE, THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION, LIKE ANY OTHER OF THE ALPHABET SOUP BACK IN THE BELTWAY, THEY LOOK AT NUMBERS, THEY LOOK AT POLLING AT ONE POINT IN TIME, AND THEY MAKE A DECISION BASED ON LIMITED RESOURCES. THAT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT'S CHISELED IN STONE. IT'S SOMETHING THAT CHANGES DEPENDING ON HOW THEY SEE THINGS PICKING UP, OR NOT. I THINK FOR WHERE THEY WERE

WHEN THEY MADE A DECISION IN EARLY MONEY, THEY DECIDED NOT TO WEIGH IN HERE, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S A WHITE FLAG FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE STATE. I THINK THAT AS WE START TO IT HEAR MORE, AND I THINK WE'VE HEARD MORE FROM THE MOTHER JONES ARTICLE AND SOME OF THESE RECORDINGS OF GOVERNOR MARTINEZ, AS PEOPLE START TO HEAR THAT AND REALLY UNDERSTAND WHO THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, OUTSIDE OF THE FACADE OF THE POLITICAL FOLKS WHO HAVE HANDLED HER, I THINK PEOPLE WILL START TO UNDERSTAND WHO THEY'RE VOTING FOR. AND NOT JUST HER, BUT WHO HER PEOPLE ARE. I MEAN, SOME OF THOSE RECORDINGS WERE REALLY TROUBLING TO A LOT OF FOLKS. THE NAME CALLING, THE JUST LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND COMMISSIONS THAT SHE SYSTEMATICALLY UNRAVELED, IN MY OPINION. SO I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S THE SORT OF THING WHERE PEOPLE CAN JUST ASSUME THAT SHE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO -- THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CHISEL AWAY AT THAT ARMOR. >> ABSOLUTELY. HOWIE MORALES, SENATOR. INTERESTING. GREAT EDUCATION BACKGROUND. HE'S VERY COMMITTED TO THE IDEA, OBVIOUSLY. I WAS FASCINATED WATCHING HIS INTERVIEW WITH OUR

MARTHA BURK, OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT. HE SEEMS LIKE A BIT OF A SLEEPER HERE, LIKE HE COULD SURPRISE SOME PEOPLE, IT SEEMS TO ME. WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? >> I EVALUATE CANDIDATES IN THREE AREAS, RAW MATERIAL. THEIR CHARACTER VALUES, COMMUNICATION SKILLS, AND WHAT CALL A WOW FACTOR. AND I THINK HOWIE HAS GOT A LITTLE BIT OF THE WOW FACTOR, KIND OF LIKE GARY JOHNSON. YOU KNOW, HE'S AN ATHLETE. GREAT BASKETBALL PLAYER. >> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. >> AND THEN ORGANIZATION, THAT'S A HUGE PIECE. AND THEN, DOES A CANDIDATE HAVE THE TIME NEEDED TO BUILD THE CAMPAIGN AND RAISE MONEY. AND I THINK IN TERMS OF ORGANIZATION, IN TERMS OF THE TIME NECESSARY TO RAISE MONEY, HOWIE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO REALLY PUT THOSE PIECES IN PLACE. HE'S WEAK ON ORGANIZATION, BUT I THINK HE HAS A GREAT FUTURE. IN THE SENATE, VERY SIGNIFICANT LEGISLATION. HE'S A GREAT DEBATER. HE CAN MAKE HIS CASE. HE HAS THE COMMUNICATION SKILLS. SO HE HAS A GREAT FUTURE. I DON'T SEE HIM -- I KNOW HE CAME OUT OF THE PRIMARY AS THE NEW ONE CANDIDATE, BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE PRIMARY CONVENTION REALLY AREN'T THE

PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE VOTING ON ELECTION DAY. SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHO IS THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY VOTER. AND GARY KING KNOWS A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE. I MEAN, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE. GARY IS NOT ON TV, HE'S NOT SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY, BUT STATEWIDE RACES, TWICE HE'S WON. HE HAS A NETWORK STATEWIDE. HE'S STAYING IN TOUCH WITH THOSE PEOPLE. HE MAY NOT BE STAYING IN TOUCH WITH THOSE PEOPLE VIA TELEVISION. HE'S MAILING, HE'S CALLING, HE'S MEETING THEM, THE KING NAME, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT. SO WE'RE NOT SEEING HIM PUBLICLY, BUT HE'S DOING A LOT OF STUFF BEHIND THE SCENES. >> AND HE HAS A FULL-TIME JOB, TOO. >> YES. >> WHICH IS SOME IMPORTANT STUFF. TEN SECONDS, SOPHIE, IF YOU COULD, LET'S TALK ABOUT LINDA LOPEZ, A LITTLE BIT UNFAIRLY HERE. WHERE DOES SHE STAND NOW IN THIS PRIMARY? >> I THINK FROM THE BEGINNING, AND I REALLY LIKE LINDA, BUT I THINK FROM THE BEGINNING SHE HAS STRUGGLED TO FIND A COMPELLING MESSAGE, AND THE MESSAGE THAT I SEE HER WORKING WITH RIGHT NOW, THE IDEA THAT SHE IS BOTH HISPANICS AND

FEMALE, IS NOT RESONATING, I DON'T THINK, IN THE WAY THAT SHE HAD HOPED. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT SHE CAN PIVOT FAST ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN TIME FOR THIS PRIMARY. >> FAIR ENOUGH. NOW, COMING UP, FORMER CITY ATTORNEY DAVID CAMPBELL TALKS ABOUT HIS NEW CAREER ADVENTURE IN THE FOREIGN SERVICE. >> THIS ELECTION COMING UP IN JUNE IS A VERY LOW VOTER TURNOUT ELECTION. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROBABLY A VERY SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE MAKING A DECISION THAT WILL IMPACT A LOT MORE PEOPLE IN THE COMING YEARS. >> DAVID CAMPBELL GOT A TASTE FOR OVERSEAS WORK EARLY IN LIFE AS A PEACE CORP VOLUNTEER, BUT HE CAME BACK TO UNM TO GET HIS LAW DEGREE, AND BUILT A PROMINENT CAREER AS A PRIVATE ATTORNEY. HE ALSO SERVED AS CITY ATTORNEY UNDER LUIS SAAVEDRA, AND VOLUNTEERED ON NUMEROUS BOARDS. THEN AT AGE 55, HE DECIDED TO PURSUE A LIFELONG DREAM TO JOIN THE FOREIGN SERVICE. TWO WEEKS FROM DEPARTURE, HE

WAS TAPPED BY THE NEW MAYOR, RICHARD J. BERRY, TO BECOME HIS CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, AND HE DID THAT UNTIL 2011 WHEN HE JOINED THE FOREIGN SERVICE AND WAS POSTED TO THE ISLAND NATION OF MAURITIUS. CAMPBELL TALKED WITH NMiF PRODUCER MEGAN KAMERICK IN LATE MARCH ON A VISIT BACK TO ALBUQUERQUE BEFORE STARTING HIS NEW POSITION IN ECUADOR. >> DAVID CAMPBELL, THANK YOU FOR COMING TO TALK WITH US ON YOUR STINT BETWEEN DIPLOMATIC POSTS. >> WELL, YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M PLEASED TO BE HERE. >> SO, TELL ME, YOU HAD A LONG LEGAL CAREER HERE, AND WITH SEVERAL CITY ADMINISTRATIONS. WHAT POSSESSED YOU, AT AGE 57, TO CHANGE ALL THAT AND JOIN THE FOREIGN SERVICE? >> WELL, SINCE I WAS 18 YEARS OLD, I HAD THIS NOTION THAT I REALLY WANTED TO BE SOMEBODY WHO WORKED OVERSEAS, WHO SPOKE OTHER LANGUAGES, AND WHO REPRESENTED AMERICA TO I WENT TO THE SCHOOL OF FOREIGN SERVICE AT GEORGETOWN, AND ONE THING LED TO ANOTHER AND I NEVER DID THAT DIPLOMATIC THING.

>> SO YOU WENT IN THE PEACE CORP? >> I DID, I WENT IN THE PEACE CORP. LOVED THAT EXPERIENCE, AND WOULD RECOMMEND THAT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE COMING OUT OF COLLEGE. WELL, PEOPLE OF ANY AGE, BECAUSE THEY'LL ACCEPT PEOPLE OF ANY AGE. BUT I DID THAT, GOT A REAL TASTE FOR WHAT THAT MIGHT BE LIKE, AND WHEN THE KIDS WERE GROWN AND OUT OF THE HOUSE, IT WAS TIME FOR US TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE TO DO. AND THIS HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL CAREER EXPERIENCE AND A LEARNING EXPERIENCE THAT I WOULDN'T TRADE FOR ANYTHING. >> WHERE DID YOU GO? YOU WENT TO MAURITIUS? >> RIGHT. OUR FIRST ASSIGNMENT WAS TO THE ISLAND NATION OF MAURITIUS, WHICH IS ABOUT 600 MILES EAST OF MADAGASCAR IN THE INDIAN OCEAN. >> BOY, THAT SOUNDS REMOTE. >> WELL, IT IS. THE MOST TIMES -- WE WERE 12 TIME ZONES AWAY FROM THE UNITED STATES, WHICH MEANS WE'RE HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD. AND WE ALSO REPRESENTED THE UNITED STATES IN THE SEYCHELLES, WHICH IS AN ISLAND GROUP JUST NORTH OF THERE, WHERE THEY WERE

IMPACTED BY SOMALI PIRATES. AND THAT BECAME PART OF THE WORK THAT WE DID, WAS COORDINATING THE RESPONSE TO THE WHOLE SOMALI MARITIME PIRACY ISSUE. >> WHAT DID YOU DO? WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO LIVE THERE? >> WELL, IT WAS, FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS FASCINATING. IT WAS A FASCINATING PLACE TO LIVE. BUT THE WORK WAS VERY INTENSIVE. WE WORKED WITH THE MILITARIES OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, AND WITH THE DIPLOMATIC MISSIONS OF COUNTRIES, TO TRY TO STOP THE ATTACKS ON THE SHIPPING LANES IN THE INDIAN OCEAN, FOR WHICH WE HAD SOME SUCCESS. IN ADDITION, WHEN WE DID CATCH -- FOR EXAMPLE, THE UNITED STATES NAVY, WHO IS TERRIFIC AND DOES A GREAT JOB IN THAT AREA, WHEN THEY WOULD CATCH A SKIFF OF SOMALI PIRATES, WE HAD TO FIND A WAY TO BRING THEM TO JUSTICE. AND SO I WOULD MEET WITH THE JUDGES, JUSTICES AND THE PROSECUTORS IN VARIOUS COUNTRIES TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT PROSECUTING THESE

PIRATES. >> USING YOUR LEGAL BACKGROUND. >> YES, THE LEGAL BACKGROUND CAME IN VERY HANDY THERE. >> WHAT WAS THE MOST SURPRISING THING THAT YOU THERE? >> THE MOST SURPRISING THING, I WOULD SAY, IS HOW PEOPLE IN THAT AREA WHO WERE OF MANY DIFFERENT FAITHS AND CULTURES, CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS, HOW THEY REALLY GOT ALONG WITH EACH OTHER. I MEAN, THERE WERE HINDUS OF ALL TYPES OF SECTS OF HINDUS, MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, BUDDHISTS, AND OTHERS. >> ALL IN A SMALL NATION. >> ALL IN A VERY SMALL -- I MEAN, THE NATION WAS THE SIZE OF BERNALILLO COUNTY. >> REALLY? >> YES. 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE. SO THEY'RE PRETTY PACKED IN. AND IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANY KIND OF CONFLICT, YOU CERTAINLY WOULD SEE IT. AND YET, THEY WERE VERY RESPECTFUL OF EACH OTHER'S RELIGIONS, CULTURES, BACKGROUND.

THEY CELEBRATED RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS THERE. SO IT WAS A PLEASANT SURPRISE, A DELIGHTFUL SURPRISE THAT THERE WAS THAT MUCH RESPECT BETWEEN AND AMONG VERY DIFFERENT GROUPS. >> WHAT DID YOU FIND WERE THE PERCEPTIONS OF THE U.S. THAT YOU FELT YOU COULD REPRESENT OR GIVE A MORE REALISTIC TONE TO? >> FIRST OF ALL, THEY KNOW AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT US. OUR MEDIA IS INTERNATIONAL. IT'S WORLDWIDE. >> FOR GOOD OR FOR ILL. >> FOR GOOD OR FOR ILL. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. >> DID THEY KNOW BREAKING BAD? >> OH, ABSOLUTELY. WHEN I WOULD TELL THEM I WAS FROM ALBUQUERQUE, THEY WOULD GO, BREAKING BAD. NOT ONLY THE FOREIGN AUDIENCE, BUT CERTAINLY THE AMERICANS THAT I WOULD TALK TO. BUT I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. IN THE 2012 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHEN IT WAS ROMNEY VS. OBAMA, I HAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ASKING ME, WELL, HOW

IS IT GOING TO TURN OUT? HOW WILL THAT ELECTION BE? AND ONE GUY IN PARTICULAR, A GUY WHO MAKES SANDWICHES IN THE MARKET, I WOULD GO AND BUY A SANDWICH AT NOON, AND HE SAID ONE DAY, WELL, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? AND I SAID, WELL, I'M FROM NEW MEXICO. AND HE SAID, WELL, THAT WAS A BLUE STATE IN THE LAST ELECTION. IT WAS INCREDIBLE THAT SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, WHO MAKES SANDWICHES IN THE MARKETPLACE WOULD HAVE THAT MUCH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT OUR COUNTRY. SO NUMBER ONE, THEY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO US BECAUSE WE'RE KIND OF NOISY AND THEY CAN'T AVOID US. THE OTHER THING THEY PAY ATTENTION TO IS SOME OF THE BAD THINGS. IT WAS UNFORTUNATE WHEN TERRIBLE THINGS WOULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, THE SHOOTINGS IN COLORADO, THE SHOOTINGS IN CONNECTICUT, THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOL. AND PEOPLE WOULD COME TO US WITH TEARS IN THEIR EYES AND SAY, PLEASE EXPRESS MY

SYMPATHY TO YOUR COUNTRY AND YOUR PRESIDENT, BECAUSE WE FEEL SO BADLY ABOUT THIS. AND THERE WAS A SENSE THAT IT COULD NOT BE SAFE TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES. I MEAN, WE WOULD LIKE TO ATTRACT TOURISTS TO THE UNITED STATES, BUT MANY OF THEM SAY, I'M AFRAID IT'S NOT SAFE THERE, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT WHAT THEY HEAR IN THE NEWS ABOUT SHOOTINGS AND CRIME AND SO ON IS PERVASIVE IN THE CULTURE. >> WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PEOPLE, GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCES, YOUNG PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WHO ARE OLDER, MID-LIFE CAREER, ABOUT MAKING THIS KIND OF CHANGE, OR WORKING INTERNATIONALLY? YOU'VE BEEN HERE TALKING TO VARIOUS GROUPS. WHAT SHOULD THEY KNOW? WHAT KIND OF SKILLS SHOULD THEY HAVE? >> WE'RE IN THE 21st CENTURY, AND THE WORLD HAS POSSIBLE, IF IT WASN'T BEFORE, AND I THINK IT WAS, BUT IF IT WASN'T BEFORE, IT'S NOW POSSIBLE TO WORK

INTERNATIONALLY AND STILL STAY VERY CONNECTED WITH HOME. I'VE BEEN URGING, PARTICULARLY YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT PEOPLE OF ANY AGE TO CONSIDER LEARNING LANGUAGES, GETTING INVOLVED IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, STAYING IN TOUCH WITH WHAT GOES ON, AND IF THEY'RE INTERESTED IN IT, PURSUING OPPORTUNITIES TO LIVE AND WORK OVERSEAS. IT IS A PHENOMENAL EXPERIENCE, AND IT'S A VERY GOOD TIME TO DO THAT. OUR CHILDREN ARE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND SHELLY AND I WERE ABLE TO TALK WITH THEM REGULARLY ON SKYPE. SO YOU'RE NOT THAT FAR REMOVED. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY THE WORLD HAS SHRUNK. AND SO THE KINDS OF OBJECTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE HAD IN THE PAST ARE CERTAINLY NOT THERE TODAY. BUT IT'S ALSO A GREAT WAY TO KEEP YOUR MIND AND SORT OF YOUR WHOLE ATTITUDE ENGAGED IN A NEW PURSUIT, WHICH IT HAS BEEN FOR SHELLY AND I.

>> WHAT'S NEXT? YOU'RE GOING TO ECUADOR, I BELIEVE? >> WE ARE. OUR NEXT ASSIGNMENT IS AS VICE CONSUL IN THE CONSULATE IN QUITO, ECUADOR, WHERE WE WILL DEAL WITH IMMIGRATION ISSUES, AND HELPING AMERICANS WHO ARE EITHER LIVING THERE OR TRAVELING IN THAT AREA. AND WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT PART OF THE WORK. >> AND YOU'RE ALSO LEARNING SPANISH. YOU'VE BEEN LEARNING SPANISH FOR THE LAST FIVE MONTHS. >> YES. >> YOU KNEW FRENCH, BUT NOW YOU'RE LEARNING SPANISH. >> FRENCH IS THE LANGUAGE IN MAURITIUS, AND NOW WE'RE LEARNING SPANISH. >> WHAT'S IT LIKE TO TRY AND LEARN A NEW LANGUAGE AT 60? >> IT'S FASCINATING. I THINK OUR BRAINS ARE ADEPT ENOUGH TO DO THIS KIND OF THING, BUT WHAT I'VE FOUND IS, WHEN I'VE SEEN FRIENDS OF MINE WHO HAVE RETIRED AND SAT AT HOME, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE. THEY TEND TO DECLINE. THEY GET SICK, OR THEY FIND THAT THEY'RE JUST BORED WITH SORT OF RETIREMENT. THIS TURNS OUT TO BE A VERY ACTIVE WAY TO STAY ENGAGED

AND TO LEARN TO DO SOMETHING NEW, AND I RECOMMEND IT TO PEOPLE, LIKE I SAID, OF ALL AGES. BUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE A CAREER SUCCESSFULLY CAN ACTUALLY BE VERY SUCCESSFUL, BRING THEIR WISDOM AND THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCE TO A JOB LIKE THIS, OR IN THE DIPLOMATIC CORP, OR IN THE PEACE CORP, OR IN INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS. IT'S AVAILABLE TO US NOW. >> WELL, DAVID, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME TO OFF TO YOUR NEW ASSIGNMENT. >> IT'S MY PLEASURE. THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> STICK AROUND. LITTLE WEB EXTRA. >> GOOD, GREAT. >> THANK YOU. >> IT'S AN ECONOMIC BRIGHT ECONOMY. THAT'S THE OIL AND GAS BOOM. PRODUCTION HAS CLIMBED IN

RECENT YEARS, AND THOSE REVENUES NOW MAKE UP NEARLY ONE-THIRD OF THE STATE'S ECONOMIC. BUT SOME OF THESE TECHNIQUES THAT HAVE OPENED UP MORE DISCOVERIES, LIKE HYDRAULIC FRACTURING, ARE ALSO RAISING ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES. IN RESPONSE, THE NEW MEXICO ENERGY, MINERALS AND NATURAL RESOURCES DEPARTMENT IS PUTTING TOGETHER A TEAM OF EXPERTS AND SCIENTISTS TO HELP LOCAL LEADERS RESPOND TO THESE CONCERNS. IT'S ALSO HOLDING A STATEWIDE SESSION TO COLLECT PUBLIC INPUT. LAURA, FIRST UP ON THESE, ARE THESE RESPONSES -- I SHOULD ADD IN THERE, AS WELL, THAT NEW MEXICO TECH IS IN THIS, AS WELL, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE HELPING THESE COMMUNITIES, WHICH IS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? IS THIS REACTION BY THIS DEPARTMENT SOMETHING THAT IS REACTING TO THE PUBLIC CONCERN, JUST THE NORMAL COURSE OF BUSINESS? SOMETHING SEEMS A LITTLE EXTRA HERE TO ME. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON? >> WELL, I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THEY'RE DOING THIS PROACTIVELY. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD, AND THE RIGHT SORT OF THING TO DO WHEN THERE'S SO MUCH CONCERN IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE ABOUT THE PRACTICES. I THINK FOR A LONG TIME -- YOU KNOW, THE ACTUAL PRACTICE OF HYDRAULIC FRACTURING ISN'T NECESSARILY

NEW. WHAT'S NEW AND I THINK DIFFERENT IS THE FREQUENCY OF IT THAT'S OCCURRING RECENTLY. I THINK THERE'S MORE OF AN URGENCY TO TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT METHOD AS OPPOSED TO TRADITIONAL EXTRACTION METHODS FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. SO I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING, THOUGH, THAT WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS IS CERTAIN LOCAL COMMUNITIES HAVE USED THEIR OWN LOCAL CITY COUNCILS AND COUNTY GOVERNMENTS TO TRY TO LIMIT THE ABILITY OF THESE OIL AND GAS COMPANIES TO COME IN AND DO HYDRAULIC FRACTURING. WE SAW SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN MORA COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S NOW BEING CHALLENGED IN COURT. SO IT'S BECOME THE SORT OF ISSUE THAT I THINK ENERGY AND MINERALS IS CORRECT TO START TO PROACTIVELY GET MORE INPUT FROM THE TECHNICIANS, PEOPLE WHO ARE SCIENTISTS AND ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THE INDUSTRY, AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC, TO TRY TO HAVE MORE OF THESE STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS. >> SURE. AND THOSE MEETINGS, BY THE WAY, SOPHIE, THE LISTENING SESSIONS GOING ON, AS WELL, THAT'S INTERESTING. YOU'RE OPENING YOURSELF UP TO A LOT OF STINGS. >> YOU ARE OPENING YOURSELF UP TO A LOT OF STINGS, BUT I YOURSELF UP TO THOSE STINGS IS ACTUALLY WHAT LEADS TO KIND OF WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING BEFORE WITH APD, A KIND OF BUNKER MENTALITY IN WHICH INDUSTRY SAYS, WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT, AND THE COMMUNITY SAYS, WE DON'T

FEEL WE'RE BEING HEARD. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT. WHAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IN ALL OF THIS, OF COURSE, IS HOW THAT INFORMATION IS USED. IF IT FEELS TO THE COMMUNITY LIKE WE SPOKE, WE THOUGHT YOU HEARD, AND THEN NOTHING CAME OUT OF THAT, THAT'S ALMOST AS BAD AS YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO LISTEN, AND PERHAPS EVEN WORSE. >> INTERESTING. >> SO I THINK THAT THE AGENCY IS GOING TO NEED TO FIND WAYS TO REALLY INTEGRATE WHAT THEY'VE HEARD INTO THE POLICIES THAT THEY SUPPORT. >> RIGHT. INTERESTING, HARRY, JUST A COUPLE OF NIGHTS AGO ON THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THEY BROUGHT UP THE KIRTLAND AIR FORCE SPILL, SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT NEED ADDRESSING HERE, ENVIRONMENTAL THINGS. LIKE A BIG, BIG MAP OF THE STATE NEEDS ADDRESSING. BUT, AGAIN, A POSITIVE IN YOUR POINT OF VIEW, THAT THE DEPARTMENT IS TAKING ON THIS TASK? >> POSITIVE FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SO WE ALL KNOW THAT OIL AND GAS IS SO INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO THE STATE IN TERMS OF BUDGET, IN TERMS OF ALL SORTS OF OTHER THINGS,

IN TERMS OF JOBS, BUT IF YOU'RE LIVING IN A LOCAL COMMUNITY, WHAT DO YOU CARE ABOUT? YOU'RE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THE STATE, AS A WHOLE, AND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY. AND TO GO TO SOPHIE'S POINT, IF YOU HAVE, SAY, COMMUNITY CONSULTATIONS, BUT IT'S JUST A MONOLOGUE, AND WHAT COMES OUT OF IT IS INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND AND NOTHING WHERE YOU REALLY HAVE GENUINE INPUT, THAT'S ACTUALLY WORSE THAN NOT ASKING PEOPLE AT ALL. AND SO IT DOES TIE, IN SOME SENSE, BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED WITH APD, IN TERMS OF A LACK OF TRUST. SO THINGS THAT ARE USED IN FRACKING, FOR EXAMPLE, ARE NOT PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE, AND SO IF I WERE LIVING IN ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES, I WOULD BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS BEING PUMPED INTO THE GROUNDWATER, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THAT WE LIVE IN A WATER STRESSED STATE. >> WE'RE UNDER A MINUTE, SENATOR, AND IT'S INTERESTING, THINKING ABOUT THE FOOTAGE WE'VE ALL SEEN OF PEOPLE TURNING ON THEIR FAUCETS AND LIGHTING WATER ON FIRE, THE WHOLE THING, PEOPLE ARE NATURALLY CONCERNED. AGAIN, POSITIVE FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW? OR COULD WE BE DOING SOMETHING BETTER THAN THIS IN YOUR VIEW? >> WE NEED THE FACTS. THERE'S A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AROUND

FRACKING. IF YOU'RE A CITY, COUNTY OFFICIAL, YOU NEED THE FACTS. WE'RE MAKING AN EFFORT RIGHT NOW TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHAT'S REAL AND WHAT'S NOT REGARDING FRACKING, AND AS WAS MENTIONED, FRACKING HAS TO DO WITH ROYALTIES, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE STATE BUDGET, IT HAS TO DO WITH JOBS, IT HAS TO DO WITH RELIANCE ON FOREIGN ENERGY. I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT PIECES TIED INTO THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF FRACKING. SO STARTING POINT, GET THE FACTS, LET'S MAKE IT SCIENCE BASED, AND WE'LL GIVE THAT INFORMATION TO THE OFFICIALS SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS. YOU NEED TO KNOW BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY. >> ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME 'ON THE CLOCKS' ON THE WEB, SO SIT TIGHT. >> AS ALWAYS, ALL OF US HERE AT NEW MEXICO InFOCUS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. CATCH UP WITH US ANY TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY SEARCHING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS, AND YOU CAN FIND ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS AND LOTS OF BONUS MATERIAL FROM OUR SHOW ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL, AND AT

NewMexicoInFocus.org. I'M GENE GRANT, WE'LL SEE