Report from Santa Fe; Walter Bradley

. . Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech on the frontier of science and engineering education. For bachelors, masters and PhD degrees, New Mexico Tech is the college who have been looking for 1-800-428-TECH. I'm Ernie Mills, this is report from Santa Fe and our guest today is Walter Bradley, Lieutenant Governor of the Great State of New Mexico. Walter, thank you for being with us. Oh, thank you once again Ernie, this is always a pleasure to be on your show and talk to the citizens because that's who we like to serve. The little people. That's it. They got those flakos. That's where we come from. Actually, the reason I'm putting on this show today, your daughter has a birthday coming up until the 29th. Correct. She's a Capricorn, which means she's hardworking, you know. There you go, you're trying to smooth yourself again Ernie.

You're a Capricorn, the same birthday, all that good stuff. You can't forget my daughter's birthday. We're just telling the truth. First, I want to talk to you about, it was eight years ago, in fact, eight years ago, when she was born. And during that time period, did you anticipate any problems that either didn't take place during that eight-year period, or did you have, were you surprised? Well, I think overall for eight years, let me say that I'm pleasantly surprised, because as you well know, having served four years in the Senate, I had a pretty good idea of how the process works. And it's not an easy thing to accomplish, turn around, and to have laws passed, and it's not supposed to be easy. But we had a, when we came on board eight years ago, we had several goals that we put into place, and we attacked those goals.

Now, in general, let me say that there wasn't any issue that we didn't take head on. Did we accomplish 100% of what we wanted to with every issue? No, we didn't. But we did lay a foundation for the next administration to turn the state into Mexico around and get us off the bottom of these lists that we don't want to be on. So we've laid that foundation. The foundation, meaning for Bill Richardson, was a Democrat. And he's had legislative experience, not in this legislature, but in Congress. And sorry, he has a background on how the system works. When you say, we, you mean you, and Governor Gary Johnson. And the legislature. And the legislature. Governor Johnson and the legislature, you know, contrary to maybe some generalization, believe, Governor Johnson was able to accomplish many things that people seemed to overlook, because it wasn't all controversy.

And as you well know, you cannot pass legislative law without help from both Democrats and Republicans. So we got a lot of help, and we did a lot of things. Let me just real quickly, because people forget. Crime. That was our number one issue in the state of New Mexico when we came on board eight years ago. Well, folks, look at the look at where we are today. We have privatized and made spaces in our prisons for prisoners. Crime rates are down. They're not, our streets are safer. We have hired over 170 new police, a state police officers. We put support programs in place. We put networking telecommunications in place. So our crime rates are down. Is it perfect? No, it's not perfect, but it is down. And we've accomplished it with less money, taxpayer's money, than when we came on board. Number one issue. We've put it in place. There's more to do. We hope that Bill will continue to make that happen for us. You're a Clovis boy.

And you were a small businessman. Correct. And I still, even as Lieutenant Governor, and I still have the mentality for this small businessman, we always talk in New Mexico about, you know, how many small businesses we have. Right. And they are the bulk of the economy. And then we turn around and make things easier for the fatcats, the big guys, the deep pockets guys. Correct. And we've got involved on the statewide business effort and more than just one direction. Correct. Are you happy with the way you left that ear? I'm happy with the foundation. But we have a lot of work to do there. And here's what we've done. We have put in place over the last eight years. Now, let's take personal income tax first. We reduce the personal income tax rate, top rate from eight and a half to eight point two. That's not nearly enough, but it's a step in the right direction. What was Bill Richardson campaigning on all during this campaign? Tax reduction.

So we put in place the impetus to make that happen. At the same time for small business, we put in place over $260 million worth of tax incentives for those businesses. Detections, if you will, for performance that they do. Hiring new employees, expanding, hiring welfare, former welfare people, we give them a tax incentive to do that. So we put $260 million of incentives in place. What we didn't accomplish, and it's not, I never thought we could get it done in eight years. But Bill is taking it up. He says he is, and I hope he does. Bill says, we need tax reform. Yes, we do. That's what New Mexico's got to have if we're going to be successful in economic development. We have got to get off of the gross receipt tax as our main source of revenue to this state. And Bill is working towards that. Now, what I hope he doesn't do is form this task force and just let a task force be around for his term.

What we know, we all know what needs to be done and it's going to take a big effort to make it happen. So I hope he does that. The foundation's there. Let's go. Your governor, Gary Johnson, didn't like task forces. What I want to say about it and the indication I got was that it was the way for the legislature, or those he didn't, you know, and it was on the other side of the fence from, to boxing. Right. And he said earlier. In fact, he pretty well ignored one task force and D. Johnson was on that task. I thought that was a winner. But he had that feeling. And the other part of it was that they're not always as responsive to the time factor that he laid down. Correct. And the problem with task force, and this is why when you form a task force, you have to set strict criteria for them. There's got to be a time limit period. Otherwise, task force take on a life of their own and just go on and on and on and don't accomplish anything.

There has to be specific people, in my opinion, it has to be run by private sector people, the very people that are going to have to live as they're going to recommend. So if you're going to do a tax reform task force, my recommendation to Bill is that Bill put at least 55% of small business private sector people on that task force, give them a one-year time frame to come back with a recommendation and then it's over because it doesn't take small business people a year to figure it out. But these are the people that are going to have to live with it. Those are the people that ought to be on that force if he's going to do it. What the governor, Governor Johnson, is always advocated is, hey, let's just bring these private sector people in here and I'll work with them and we'll come up with a plan. And actually, that's not a bad idea either. But you still have to have private sector control and you have to have a short time frame.

Otherwise, this doesn't work. I talk to a young man the other day. Young man, graduate of UNM, did some graduate work down there, did some of his own business now. And I asked him, you know, what kind of suggestions do you have? Because they're the people who should go to. Exactly. And he said, I don't think he said, I encourage people to get involved in politics. And when they do, they get out. He said, we have too many people who talk about being small business people. But they hang around too long and they become professional politicians. Governor Johnson, but did a show with us early on. And I've gone back to it several times when I asked him, are you going to play this game by the rules? You know, and I'm thinking about the political game and he said, how can I play the game when I don't know the rules? There were a couple of things he never got credit for. The first is, he didn't lie. Exactly.

He came out, people got mad at him later and said, why are you doing this? He was like on the drug reform issue. And he came out and said, no, I feel this way. And he stuck by it. But he did that on a number of issues, didn't he? He did. On many issues. And this was in the first year that we were in. And I loved it. I mean, what a refreshing atmosphere to have. The truth, okay? Someone comes in and this was a problem in the beginning because our legislators and lobbyists were used to the old way. You take the previous governors and administrations when they come in and they'd say, yeah, that looks like a pretty good idea. Well, that was, yes, we'll do that. Not with Gary Johnson. Gary Johnson says, let's not a bad idea. That doesn't mean he's advocating it. Gary Johnson, it's a yes or a no. And it's always the truth. He's had people walk in and just flat tell him, I think that's a terrible idea. I'm not going to do that.

That's silly. I won't do it. It's over. And in his mind, he's done. I mean, it's there. It was a great atmosphere to be in because it was totally refreshing to have that kind of an atmosphere. No wishy washy, no plan middle of the road or riding the fence. This is what we need to do and this is what we're going to do. Now, there was also the downside of that. Is it sometimes he carried that issue to the maximum as an example in education reform? He wanted a full statewide voucher program. And when the legislature offered him a pilot, he turned it down because he wanted the full. And he felt strongly, very strongly, about having the full statewide voucher program. So I think had that option, I would have in fact, I lobbied him to take the pilot. And then we would build from that. So not having a little experience of how do you start programs was bad only from that viewpoint.

But Gary was so adamant, so strong-willed about, I know this is what we need. That he stuck to his guns. He never backed off. And that's great. I mean, it's really wonderful. It was a great atmosphere to be in. Well, I don't want to hear you pushing that truth stuff too much. You're going to be intruding into my business. I know. Yeah. We don't want to carry that. No, you don't want to carry that too far. No, it was great. It's great. I don't want to get away from the idea you said there, you know, about, looking, let's look at it, for example, on the pilot program for educational reform. That was interesting because the legislative education study committee put together a task force. Correct. And it was interesting because they had a very strong Democrat on there. And they had IB Hoover on there who is not exactly the most liberal man in the state. Correct. When they came up with their recommendations, and I know you, you saw them, both the Democrat and the Republican had sat down. I said, we endorse this.

A lot of work went into it. And in both cases, they told me, we got this through with hardly any kind of a dissent. Right. So they almost had a, you know, an IB Hoover did the show with us. Right. And he said, this isn't the way I liked it to go. But again, he's a very well-balanced gentleman. And again, a small businessman. Right. Well, let me, let me say on the education reform package that they proposed. And the governor vetoed it. And he vetoed it on good sound reason. And I would have done exactly the same thing. I think anyone that actually examined that would have done that. Number one, it was a $300 million package. It was no money. So the legislature passed a bill. Now, that's a safe passage if you're a legislator. I mean, I've been there. And so you didn't appropriate the money. You just passed the package. But without the money, the package doesn't go anywhere. So you're banking on revenue in the future.

And that's always, as you well know, or any not a good thing to do. Inside that package, there were some things that were put in that, frankly, made it part of a package that didn't really address the real issue of education. And it was all put in there. And one of those, and I don't mind, I've been very outspoken about it, we have a pay structure in the state of Mexico that prevents us from rewarding good teachers. And that is ludicrous. You want to know why teachers can leave to Mexico, good math teachers can leave to Mexico and go to Texas and get a $10,000 raise. Because they have the flexibility to pay for the need of a math teacher. We don't. We do it on tenure. Strictly, if you've been in this system for five years, or you've been in this system for seven years, you within a few hundred dollars earn the exact same amount of money, whether you're an English teacher,

or a math teacher, or a physics teacher, or a PE teacher, or any level. It's based on tenure. That needs to be changed. And it wasn't changed. In fact, it was reinforced with a pilot for some merit pay, if you will. There were some things in there. But to pull people together to have a Republican and a Democrat come in as strong as they did, that was a good thing. And I will, let me close on the education by just saying this. I really don't believe that New Mexico is going to turn its education program around. And I be Hoover agreed to this. Everyone on that committee agreed to it. Until the state of New Mexico gets a a superintendent of education that reports to the governor in the state of New Mexico, you have to have a decision maker in position to make changes of education. And until we do that, we're just throwing good money after bad

because what happens is right now, we have a great board of 15 people. And they're great people. But 15 people, Ernie, as you well know, sitting in a room trying to make a decision is almost virtually impossible. Look how long it took them to decide what the grade points were going to be on the exams. I mean, it took years to do that. So we need a cabinet secretary in the state of New Mexico. We're one of only four states that don't have that. We need to make that change. I believe Bill Richardson has said that he won the Senate, that cabinet post. You ran for governor this last time after there would be seven and a half years as lieutenant governor. Could you describe your feelings on that, for example? How did you feel about number one, you didn't win? Right. But this was a little more complicated than most of the campaigns I followed than I've been following out of here. Out of here for 40 years.

Right. Well, Ernie, let me say that I certainly want to serve the people of the state of New Mexico. And I did want to, I felt like this was an opportunity to further the foundation and the agenda that we had set in the last eight years. And I felt I was a good candidate to do that. The only winning and losing, that's just part of life. I mean, that's part of life. And I have accepted the losing. The one thing that you and I had discussed that did bother me is this time there seemed to be an awful lot of federal pool going into elections in the state of New Mexico. And if that's a sign of the things to come, then I think we need to examine that. Because New Mexico is a big state, but its demographics are very diverse. And it doesn't fit many of the smaller states that have huge urban populations. You mentioned federal. The federal intrusion into the local. And of course, I believe you're talking about

the national parties. Correct. Back there and they watched it. Both sides. Both sides. Everyone accuses one party of doing it. Yeah. Both sides get involved now in the big money and they use as an excuse. They're doing it, so we have to do it. Right. And I just don't buy that. When Governor Johnson and I, and I'll never forget this, when we first in 1994, our national party came down and, and brought a check. And with that check came some strings. And I was standing next to the governor when he turned and asked me, and he had the check. And with all these strings, and he had said, I don't want any strings. We will run our own campaign. He turned. He said, Walter, do you agree? And I said, absolutely. And he tore the check. And he said, with strings, no. We're going to run our own campaign. Now, what has happened is these strings come in and the thing I don't like, and I've been very outspoken about it, are these absolute attacks on people. Now, my record is a public record.

Anybody can scrutinize my record and it is for public scrutiny. No problem. But when you start embellishing and both parties did this. And they did it in the primary and they did it in the general election. And it just kind of carried over. But I think that's wrong. I think when you start taking what I call cheap shots. And in some cases, in my case, I've said it before. I'll say it again. Just flat lies. I mean, that's wrong. You just don't do that because the public, how do you defend that? So I think if that's where we're going with elections, I think it's a bad, it's a huge disservice for our citizens. And I don't condone that, and I won't do that. I won't support those. You mentioned it. I don't want to, yeah, I do want to leave that subject in a moment. The strings attached. Leonard Delayo, not the young man,

but his daddy, who was a superintendent of public instruction for a long time out here. He was tough. He was tough, X-Marine. I believe won the battle of the OG Massingo Handen. But he had been criticized for turning down federal money. And he said, I don't want it with the strings attached. They're cumbersome and not fair. And he was sure that what he looked at at that time. He said, no one is losing him. We're addressing this concern. Right. And he said, right, where you're sitting. And he said, is there anyone out in that audience who knows of one student who is being denied the kind of help? It was like special education funds. I, one of the concerns I see, I don't think it would be bad for me criticizing or the Bradley, specific issue on the record.

It seems anymore that you can, as long as you pay for an advertisement, you can say whatever you want. And that's wrong. That's wrong, Ernie. And that's what I object to. And I don't like that. And I'm certainly not the only one. I think a lot of people feel that way. And I think that in our country today, and this isn't isolated to New Mexico. It's nationwide. I think our party did a lot of good things. The Republican Party in this election cycle. The Democrats did a lot of good things. But they did a few of those little kind of things with the strings over here. Well, hey, this is what it takes to win. And let me just say, winning isn't everything. And as I said a few minutes ago, winning and losing is part of life. And I've been on both sides of that. And this certainly wasn't the first time that I lost an election. And I lost my very first election.

I ran for school board in Clovis, New Mexico. And I think my family and I were the only ones that voted for me. And we're in to share it. And I'm not sure of them. But the fact is that that's just part of life. But when we start allowing outside influences to control, then that presents a major problem. You took over as the people tend to forget sometimes too. The governor is the president of the Senate. Correct. And you came in there at an interesting period because there were, again, 18 Republicans pretty close. And then you had the Democrats and the majority. And yet, I don't think anyone was surprised. But after eight years, when you stepped down, you received a standing ovation from the members of both parties. That had to make you feel good. Oh, it did. It was a moment that, you know, it's one of those Kodak moments

that you wish you could capture. It's in my brain. It's with me. It's a memory that I'll never forget. And what happened, frankly, is that as president of the Senate, your job is to help control them and to be fair. And that's what you have to do with both sides. And I have a great deal of respect for the legislative body I always have. I have a great deal of respect for our legislators, even though many of us disagree. I mean, we're 180 degrees apart on many issues. But the fact that they're willing to put up their personal life and come out here and to Santa Fe and put their... Actually, they're putting their whole family on the line because criticism is going to be everywhere. Every decision you make, some is going to be good, some's going to be bad. But I respect all of them and I was just blown over whenever it was awesome that they showed that kind of respect back.

That was great. I had Republicans on this show, House members and Senate members, who said, spokeingly, that you had been fair throughout the eight years. You've been a real... I guess as they said, you've been a real credit to the legislature. You can't lose your sense of humor in that body. No, not at all. And because... And here was a tool that I used to calm them down. Because people don't really understand until they get in that environment early on. And you've been around it for a long time. But I can recall when I was on the Senate floor and I was so adamant on my point on a debate that I was... I was losing it. I was really getting, you know, a husband and wife can get into a debate and it becomes an argument. Well, my job as president is to make sure that debate stays a debate and does not become an argument. And so you kind of inject some humor around then to open it up and back them off a little bit. But it's a delicate balance

because it is their body and they want a debate. And that's okay, but not arguing. And there are certain rules that you have to abide with in order to keep it that way and make it a debate and keep it away from being losing control down there. It's interesting watching a new administration command even though you're close to the people. And you and I were close. Right. Watching the Democrats command, very close to Bill Richardson. It's interesting sometimes when you watch the response from various, you know, people that do get elected or the people around them. Mm-hmm. You've mentioned this before to me then. How critical it is to get people around you. They've got to be honest. Right. They've got to let you know what's going on. Mm-hmm. I think your staff up on the foot floor was as responsive as any I've seen in many, many years up here. Well, thank you. You were pretty pleased with them weren't you? I was very pleased with my staff. I've had a great group to work with. We brought them on and I had one basic philosophy. This office and your job

belongs to the citizens of the state of New Mexico and we must show them respect. We set up certain criteria. If a citizen calls in, we are dedicated to have a response back within 48 hours. Now, it may not be complete, but they will get a call back giving a status of what's going on. And all of our legislators, our doors are wide open. Come in any time. The citizenry, come in any time. Somebody will talk to you, listen to your problem. We can't guarantee you a result, but we can guarantee you that we'll give you the service. And I just had super staff. And my chief of staff right now, Mark Moore's, and Hill DeBock has been with me for the full eight years. And Sue Taylor, and Katherine McGee, and Lisa, and over the years, Fran Gagos, Judge and Santa Fe. Who, by the way, was a registered independent when I hired her. She had great talent. We needed it.

We worked it. We made these things happen. So over the years, we've had a great group, Nick Brady. You remember Nick and Ruben, and Troy Benavitas, and all of these. And all of them liked the job they were doing because we actually made a difference in citizen's lives. We actually helped people. There's nothing better than taking an earning mills, who calls up and says, you know, I can't seem to get my child support through the right parameters. And we go over there, and we walk it through, and we get it done, and say, okay, Ernie, you're safe, and you're clean and you're clear. It was another earning mills that was under scrutiny, not you. We fix that problem. That's what it's about. That's what it's all about. That's what these last eight years have been, and mean to me, and my family. We've made a difference to New Mexico. And now we're passing the torch and the baton over to another administration. We've got the foundation. You've got the economics ready to run. You've got the taxes ready to run.

You've got the crime down. The education. Now Bill, make it happen, because it's just right there. It's exciting. It's an exciting time. And we're going to make it happen. Our guest today, Walter Bradley, lieutenant governor for the state of New Mexico. I'm Ernie Mills, and would like to thank you for being with us on report from Santa Fe. Report from Santa Fe is made possible in part by grants from New Mexico Tech on the frontier of science and engineering education. For bachelor's, masters, and PhD degrees, New Mexico Tech is the college you've been looking for, 1-800-428-TECH.