New Mexico in Focus; 716; African American History in New Mexico

PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" CAN A NEW INITIATIVE TO BOOST COLLEGE GRADUATE GRADS REMAKE THE WORK FORCE? >> BETTER TO EDUCATE FIRST IN THAT CHICKEN AND EGG EQUATION, AND MAKE SURE THAT NEW MEXICANS HAVE THAT QUALITY IN EDUCATION AND THEN ADDRESS THE JOB ISSUE. >> PLUS WE TALK ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS TO THE HISTORY OF THE STATE. "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" STARTS NOW. ON OCTOBER 22, A NEW SERIES DEBUTS ON PBS, "THE AFRICAN AMERICANS, MANY RIVERS TO CROSS," EXPLORES THE EVOLUTION OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE AND EXPERIENCE. I SIT DOWN WITH LOCAL EXPERTS TO DISCUSS NEW MEXICO'S RICH HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICAN SETTLERS, ENTREPRENEURS AND COMMUNITY BUILDERS. THE LINE OPINION PANEL EXAMINES THE CONTROVERSIAL COPPER RULES PASSED BY THE STATE'S WATER QUALITY CONTROL

COMMISSION. ATTORNEY GENERAL GARY KING HAS ASKED THE STATE COURT OF APPEALS TO HALT THE NEW REGULATION. GOVERNMENT APPEARS TO BE LUMBERING BACK TO LIFE AFTER ITS LENGTHY SHUTDOWN, BUT WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE NEW MEXICO, WHERE SO MUCH OF OUR ECONOMY IS TIED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT? HOWEVER, WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH AN AMBITIOUS PROPOSAL ROLLED UP BY EDUCATION OFFICIALS, CITY LEADERS AND BUSINESS ADVOCATES THIS WEEK TO BOOST NUMBER OF GRADUATES IN ALBUQUERQUE. HERE IS THE LINE. INITIATIVE TO BOOST THE NUMBER OF COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY GRADUATES AND CERTIFICATE HOLDERS BY 60,000 IN ALBUQUERQUE BY THE YEAR 2020. MANY TOP EMPLOYERS ARE BACKING THE PROPOSAL INCLUDING PNM AND INTEL. EMPLOYERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO HELP EMPLOYERS GET MORE -- EMPLOYEES GET MORE EDUCATION TO HELP STUDENT EXPLORE CAREERS AS WELL AS MAKE IT EASIER FOR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PARENTS TO SUPPORT CHILDREN IN SCHOOL, BUT, MANY QUESTIONS REMAIN. WILL THE JOBS BE THERE FOR THOSE GRADS? CAN THEY AFFORD SCHOOL AS THE LOTTERY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM FACES SEVERE FINANCIAL ISSUES. JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER NEWS OF THE WEEK,

LINE REGULAR, ROB NIKOLEWSKI, NEW MEXICO WATCHDOG; RETURNING AFTER A LONG, LONG, LONG DRY SPELL, STEVE SPITZ. IT IS OUR FAULT. HERE FROM KUNM RADIO, NEW MEXICO PEOPLE PLACES AND IDEAS. ANOTHER REGULAR IS BACK, ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN, GOOD TO SEE ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN. RETURNING TO THE LINE AFTER A WHILE, NOT A LONG, LONG WHILE, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST, LAURA PASKUS. SOPHIE, WE HAVE SOME SERIOUS ISSUES IN THE STATE WITH DROPOUTS. WE COVERED THAT HERE IN THIS BULLYING MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES, WORKFORCE READINESS. AMBITION OF THIS, HOW DOES IT HIT YOU THE 60,000? NOT CAN WE MAKE IT OR NOT, NOT QUITE THE POINT, BUT SOMETHING IS IN MOTION HERE. IS THIS THE RIGHT MOTION HERE AS YOU SEE IT? WE SEE A GROUP COALESCING AROUND A SPECIFIC GOAL AND I COMMEND THE UNITED WAY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE FOR BRINGING THIS GROUP TOGETHER AND FOR REALLY TARGETING SOMETHING THAT THEY AND THE GROUP THINK IS ACCOMPLISHABLE. AND I WANT TO REALLY HIGHLIGHT

THE IDEA OF ONE OF THE MEMBERS WHO SAID, WE REALLY HAVE BEEN DOING BATTLE FOR A WHILE NOW OVER DO WE NEED TO GET THE JOBS FIRST OR GET THE EDUCATION FIRST. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WOULD RATHER HAVE A BUNCH OF HIGHLY EDUCATED NEW MEXICANS WHO MAYBE DO HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF STATE TO FIND JOBS -- LET ME JUST CLARIFY, NOBODY WANTS TO SEE THAT HAPPEN -- THAN TO HAVE US WORK HARD TO BRING THE JOBS AND HAVE A GROUP OF NEW MEXICANS WHO CAN'T QUALIFY FOR THEM. BETTER TO EDUCATE FIRST IN THAT CHICKEN AND EGG EQUATION, AND MAKE SURE THAT NEW MEXICANS HAVE THAT QUALITY IN EDUCATION, AND THEN ADDRESS THE JOB ISSUE. AND I COMMEND THE GROUP FOR THAT. >> I DON'T THINK THERE IS MUCH ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT. THAT IS A GOOD RISK. IF THERE ARE RISKS TO BE TAKEN THAT SEEMS LIKE A BETTER WAY TO GO. >> YEAH, MY IMPRESSION ABOUT THIS ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS, KIND OF A CHICKEN AND EGG QUESTION. AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE GOT IS A LOT OF THIS COMES FROM THE GROUND UP. YES, WE CAN TRY TO GET MORE COLLEGE GRADUATES, A LAUDABLE

GOAL, BUT IN ORDER TO GET MORE COLLEGE GRADUATES WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB EDUCATING OUR KIDS ON THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE GOT IS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE -- AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD GOAL, BUT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO LOSE FOCUS ON JUST CONCENTRATE ON UNIVERSITY GRADUATES. ESPECIALLY JUNIOR COLLEGE GRADUATES, TRADE SCHOOL GRADUATES, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK THAT THE STATE HAS MISSED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. WE DO HAVE A POPULATION THAT IS UNDEREDUCATED. I THINK MAYBE A BETTER TRANSITION FOR THEM, FOR A LOT OF STUDENTS WOULD BE TO SAY, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BECOME A NEUROSURGEON, HOW ABOUT BECOMING A TRADESMAN. >> AND, TO THEIR CREDIT, THE PLAN DOES INVOLVE NOT JUST UNIVERSITY DIPLOMAS BUT ALSO TRADE TRAINING AND PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION.

THE DIFFERENT LEVELS ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH THIS. IT IS NOT JUST 60,000 DIPLOMAS. >> EXACTLY, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT EMPHASIS IS NOT JUST ON THE KIDS WHO ARE GOING TO GET LIBERAL ARTS DEGREE. >> THERE IS A TENSION THERE. FOR SOME FOLKS IT IS UNIVERSITY OR BUST AND THEY LOOK DOWN AT EVERYTHING ELSE, FOR SOME OTHERS, YOU MEET FOLKS WHERE THEY ARE. THAT HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING HERE, MOVE PEOPLE UP THE LADDER OF EDUCATION A LITTLE BIT AND THEY TAKE INITIATIVE TO TAKE STEPS ON THEIR OWN LATER, GRADUATE WORK AND SUCH AS IT GOES ALONG. YOUR SENSE OF THIS AS YOU READ IT. IS IT SOMETHING THAT WOULD PAY OFF BENEFITS EARLY, MIDTERM MUCH LATER THAN 2020, HOW SHOULD WE LOOK AT THIS AND CONSIDERING THIS? SUCCESSFUL LONG-TERM WOULD BE AMAZING, WE WOULD HAVE A WORKFORCE HERE THAT COULD BE REALLY FOCUSED ON LOCAL SOLUTIONS AND LOCAL COMMUNITIES. I MEAN, WE ARE FACING SO MANY CHALLENGES, WHETHER IT IS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OR CLIMATE CHANGE AND WE NEED EDUCATED NEW MEXICANS, PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TACKLE ALL OF THESE CHALLENGES. I REALLY AGREE WITH ROB TOO WE

NEED TO START -- LIKE, IF WE WANT THESE KIDS TO GO AND GET PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATES OR UNIVERSITY DEGREES WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON OUR VERY YOUNGEST PEOPLE AS WELL, I DEFINITELY SEE IT AS A LONG-TERM PROCESS. >> ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE LADDER, THE LADDER IS BEING RESHAPED DAILY IN OUR CULTURE. KIDS ARE NOT SURE, I HAVE IN COLLEGE RIGHT NOW, I TELL THEM DON'T PANIC, DON'T PANIC, DON'T PANIC ABOUT MAKING A CAREER DECISION. GET EDUCATED FIRST AND FILL OUT THE OTHER PART SECOND, BUT, TO ROB'S POINT, SOMETIMES IT IS BETTER TO KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH A ROAD MAP EARLY AND TO GET THERE. DOES THIS ENCOMPASS BOTH OF >> YES, I GUESS I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID SO FAR. THE ONE THING I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IS NEW MEXICO ACTUALLY SPENDS MORE ON COLLEGE EDUCATION THAN, ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS, THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

THE PROBLEM IS AT THE OTHER END. 71% OF OUR KIDS ARE BORN TO MEDICAID FAMILIES, DISADVANTAGED FAMILIES, SINGLE FAMILIES. THOSE KIDS ARE GOING TO GROW UP WITH PROBLEMS UNLESS THERE IS SOME KIND OF PROGRAM. THERE IS ONLY 3% OF THEM IN A HOME VISITING PROGRAM. WE HAVE VERY LITTLE PRE-K, 15% OF OUR KIDS. ONE OF THE LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY. >> DO YOU SEE THOSE THINGS AS POTENTIAL ROADBLOCKS TO THE SUCCESS OF THIS PROGRAM? >> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALL KINDS OF THINGS YOU COULD DO BUT THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO IS EARLY CHILDHOOD, I MEAN, REALLY EARLY, PRENATAL TO ONE, GET THE MOTHER AND CHILD TO ATTACH. THAT IS ACTUALLY MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN IQ ACHIEVEMENT TEST SCORES AND THESE PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO WORK, SO IF I WERE GOING TO SAY ANYTHING TO THESE PEOPLE, I WOULD SAY, CONCENTRATE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD. IT IS EXPENSIVE. IT IS LIKE $3,000 A KID. BUT, THESE PROGRAMS IN DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES, RANDOMIZED STUDIES HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO

GIVE STATES 4 AND 5 TO 1 RETURNS, THE STATES, NOT THE KIDS, NOT THE PARENTS, BUT STATES. >> BIG ARGUMENT IN OUR LEGISLATURE FOR YEARS AND ROB IT IS INTERESTING TO HEAR STEVEN SAY THIS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES ON THE SHOW AS WELL, THAT IDEA THAT IF THE ECO SYSTEM OF HOW A PERSON IS WHOLE AND READY TO LEARN IS NOT FIXED BEFORE THEY GET IN THE CLASSROOM, YOU KNOW, CHANCE OF SUCCESSFUL OUTCOMES FOR THAT KID ARE VERY MUCH DIMINISHED. IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THOSE OTHER THINGS THAT STEVEN IS TALKING ABOUT NOW THAT WE HAVE THIS IN PLACE, CAN WE BACK UP? >> I THINK SO, BUT ANOTHER STATISTIC TO LOOK AT AS WELL IS SOMETHING LIKE 60% OF THE STUDENTS AT UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO NEED REMEDIAL TRAINING. I MEAN THAT POINTS TO THE PROBLEMS AT THE ELEMENTARY, JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL LEVELS. AND I DON'T -- EVEN THOUGH IT IS A LAUDABLE PLAN AND I AM IN FAVOR OF IT, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THE BALANCE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT INCENTIVIZING KIDS WHO CAN'T

CLEAR THAT HURDLE. 60% OF THEM ARE NEEDING REMEDIAL INSTRUCTION AND A LARGE PERCENTAGE, I THINK, RECENT NEWS STORY SHOWED THAT A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF KIDS WHO DEFAULT ON STUDENT LOANS ARE ONES AFTER FIRST SEMESTER OF FRESHMAN YEAR, CLEARLY THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO HACK IT EDUCATIONALLY. YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYONE ANY FAVORS BY TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO SOMETHING THEY CAN'T. >> I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING THAT PAINT. IN FACT, THE ARTICLE, WE READ ABOUT THIS IN OTHERS, THERE IS A GREAT QUOTE ABOUT THE IDEA, HIGH SCHOOL HAS JUST LEFT IN MAY AND THEN COME SEPTEMBER WE EXPECT THEM TO DO THIS HUGE SPIN-UP INTO ADULTHOOD AND MANAGE FINANCES, MANAGE LIFE CHOICES AND THERE HAS TO BE A BRIDGE THERE SOMEWHERE. >> IT IS A TREMENDOUS TRANSITION AND ONE THAT WE THINK KIDS ARE PREPARED TO MAKE -- WE NEED TO MAKE SURE KIDS ARE PREPARED TO MAKE. IT HIGHLIGHTS AS WELL, THE COMPACT BETWEEN SOCIETY,

EDUCATION AND STUDENTS HAVE SHIFTED SINCE THE 70'S. 60'S AND 70'S WHEN A COLLEGE EDUCATION WAS A MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE PROPOSITION, YOU DIDN'T GO INTO LIFE-LONG DEBT IN ORDER TO GET YOUR COLLEGE EDUCATION, AND ADMITTEDLY FEWER PEOPLE WERE GETTING THEM BUT ALSO IF YOU DIDN'T GET A COLLEGE DEGREE, YOU COULD GO INTO A STABLE BLUE COLLAR CAREER THAT WOULD TAKE CARE OF YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND YOU COULD EXPECT TO RETIRE FROM THAT CAREER AND HAVE A GOOD SOLID RETIREMENT. SO, OUR SOCIAL COMPACT AS A WHOLE HAS CHANGED. SO WE'RE ASKING KIDS WHEN THEY GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL TO SIGN ON TO 30 YEARS OF DEBT AND WE REALLY HAVEN'T PREPARED THEM FOR THAT. AND, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THAT DEBT IS ON THE FACT THAT WE CHANGED HOW WE FUND OUR UNIVERSITIES. WE HAVE A REALLY LARGE BUCKET OF RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF AS WE LOOK AT THE SIMPLE PROPOSITION

OF PRE-K TO GRADUATE DEGREE, PRE-K TO COLLEGE DEGREE. >> I REALLY LIKE THIS PROGRAM, CNM, OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED GOOD STUFF. WE'RE BACK TO TALK ABOUT HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO. THAT GAVE THEM VALUE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY SO WHEN I COME INTO THIS COMMUNITY, I HAVE ANOTHER DEFINITION THAT GIVES ME VALUE AND MAKES ME VITAL AND GIVES MY CHILDREN THE HOPE THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CYNICAL. YOU NEED TO KEEP GOING, YOU NEED TO NOT LET THESE FEELINGS STOP YOU. >> ON OCTOBER 22, A NOTED HARVARD UNIVERSITY SCHOLAR GATES JUNIOR LAUNCHES A SIX PART SERIES ON PBS, "THE AFRICAN AMERICANS; MANY RIVERS

TO CROSS," EXPLORING HOW PEOPLE FORGED THEIR OWN HISTORY, CULTURE AND SOCIETY AGAINST TREMENDOUS ODDS. NOW, NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY OFTEN FAILS TO MENTION OUR VIBRANT AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, SO I SAT DOWN WITH LOCAL EXPERTS TO CAST MORE LIGHT ON THEIR MANY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE EVOLUTION OF THIS STATE. JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS IN NEW MEXICO GEORGE GEDER, PRESIDENT AND HISTORIAN OF THE NAACP SANTA FE BRANCH. OUR FRIEND RITA POWDRELL, OWNER OF POWDRELL BARBECUE HEADS THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN MUSEUM AND CULTURAL CENTER, AND SHE IS THE CO-CREATOR ALONG WITH OUR OTHER GUEST, BRENDA DABNEY, OF THE EXHIBIT NEW MEXICO AFRICAN AMERICAN LEGACY, VISIBLE, VITAL AND VALUABLE. THIS EXHIBIT HAS BEEN TRAVELING THE STATE FOR SEVERAL YEARS, EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT THE GROUP THAT IS DESCRIPTION OF NEW MEXICO AND THAT WOULD BE US, AFRICAN AMERICANS. LET ME START WITH YOU, RITA, GOOD TO SEE YOU, BY THE WAY. IT HAS BEEN A WHILE. TELL ME ABOUT THE EXHIBIT, WHAT YOU WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH WITH VISIBLE, VITAL AND

VALUABLE. WHAT WAS THE GOAL WHEN YOU GUYS PUT TOGETHER THE EXHIBIT? >> WELL, THE EXHIBIT IS NOW CULTURAL CENTER INITIATIVE WHICH STARTED IN 2002. AND, BASICALLY, OUR PURPOSE IS WE WANT TO RESEARCH HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE STATE AND ARCHIVE IT AND THEN WE JUST WANT TO EXHIBIT IT THROUGHOUT THE STATE BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST AREN'T AWARE OF THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN NEW MEXICO AND IT IS A LONG, ILLUSTRIOUS HISTORY OF MAINTAINING A SOVEREIGN DEFINITION IN THE FACE OF OPPRESSION AND PROVIDING SANCTUARY FOR OUR OFFSPRING SO THAT THEY FEEL VALUED, THEY KNOW EXCELLENCE AND THEY SURVIVE AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THEIR DREAMS AND GOALS. AND THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE NEGATIVE DEFINITION THAT COMES FROM THE OUTSIDE. >> I LIKE THE USE OF THE TERM OF SOVEREIGN DEFINITION AND, BRENDA, THAT IS AN INTERESTING

WAY TO USE THAT WORD BECAUSE WHAT RITA IS GETTING TO, OF COURSE YOU KNOW THIS, IF YOU DON'T DO IT FOR YOURSELF, SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO DEFINE YOU. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. SO, WHEN YOU THINK -- WHEN YOU WERE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, WHAT WERE SOME OF THE ASPECTS OF OUR COMING TO NEW MEXICO THAT YOU WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT? FIRST OF ALL, WE TALKED ABOUT THE EARLY ORIGINAL FAMILIES AND WHY THEY CAME AND WHAT THEY DID WHEN THEY GOT HERE, SO, THAT LED US INTO ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND THEN WE LOOKED AT CHURCHES AND WE HAD ONE TIME GROUPED THEM TOGETHER BUT WE FOUND THAT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA SO WE SEPARATED CHURCHES FROM SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS. SO, THEY CAME HERE, THEY FOUND SOMETHING TO LIVE OFF OF AND THEY HAD THEIR SANCTUARY OF CHURCH AND THEN THEY HAD THEIR SOCIAL AND SOME POLITICAL

ORGANIZATIONS AS WELL. AND, THEN WE LOOKED AT PATTERNS OF INTEGRATION AND SEGREGATION IN NEW MEXICO. >> INTERESTING, FIVE BIG SUBJECTS, ANY ONE OF THEM COULD HAVE BEEN ITS OWN EXHIBIT. IT IS AMAZING. GEORGE, GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR COMING IN FROM SANTA FE. IT WAS INTERESTING WHAT SURPRISED MOST FOLKS HERE WHO ARE NOT AFRICAN AMERICANS IS THAT THERE WERE AFRICAN AMERICANS THAT HAD A FOOTHOLD IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FOR QUITE A PERIOD OF TIME. WE TEND TO THINK OF US BEING SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AS POINT OF ENTRY AND WHERE WE MADE OUR STAND, SO TO SPEAK, BUT TALK ABOUT THAT, ABOUT NORTHERN NEW >> YES, WELL, MY FAMILY, MY WIFE AND I CAME TO SANTA FE ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS, WHERE ARE ALL THE BLACK FOLK? AND, SO, WE JOINED THE SANTA FE BRANCH OF THE NAACP WHICH WOULD BE OUR POINT OF ENTRY INTO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND WHAT I NOTICED WAS THAT THERE IS A RICH HISTORY THERE IN SANTA FE. AND IT IS INCLUDED IN THE

NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS OF THE MEMBERSHIP AND SO MY FIRST THING WITH THE BRANCH WAS, LET ME BE A HISTORIAN, LET ME GATHER ALL THE NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS, OBITUARIES, SO THAT I CAN LEARN ABOUT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AS IT EXISTS IN SANTA FE AND ALSO TO BRING IT TO LIGHT AND BRING IT TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE TO SAY THAT, THERE IS AN AFRICAN INSOLENT IN SANTA FE AND THAT IS HOW I GOT STARTED WITH THAT. >> THAT IS INTERESTING. BRENDA, IT IS INTERESTING, YOUR FAMILY WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE FAMILIES, THE DABNEYS, AS YOU MENTIONED, SOME OF THOSE ORIGINAL FAMILIES. >> IT WASN'T DABNEYS. IT WAS MY GREAT GRANDFATHER CAME HERE AS A BUFFALO SOLDIER AND HIS NAME WAS JOHN COLLINS. >> SORRY. >> THAT IS OKAY AND HE CAME HERE AS, YOU KNOW IN THE MILITARY AND ONE OF THE JOBS

OF THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS WAS TO PROTECT THE MEN WHO WERE LAYING THE TRACK FROM TOPEKA, KANSAS GOING TO CALIFORNIA AND, YOU KNOW, FROM WHOEVER IT WAS THAT WAS GOING TO STOP OR TO IMPEDE THEM. THAT WAS ONE OF THEIR JOBS. ANOTHER JOB HE HAD WAS AS A SCOUT BECAUSE HE SPOKE SEVERAL INDIAN DIALECTS AND WAS ALSO SENT TO ALBUQUERQUE TO WORK AT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO MOVE THE COURSE OF THE RIVER. THE RIVER'S NATURAL BED RUNS BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND STREET, AND YEARS AGO, WHENEVER WE HAD, YOU KNOW, A LARGE RAINFALL, THE WATER WOULD JUST POUR DOWN THOSE TWO STREETS, WE HAVE SINCE CORRECTED THAT, BUT THEY MOVED IT TO WHERE ITS PRESENT BED IS. AND WHILE HE WAS HERE, HE KIND OF LIKED ALBUQUERQUE, WAS LIVING IN SILVER CITY. AND, SO, WHEN HE WAS DISCHARGED FROM THE MILITARY,

HE SENT FOR HIS WIFE MELISSA WHO WAS IN NEW YORK AND BROUGHT HER OUT HERE AND SHE, THE RAILROAD STOPPED AT TOPEKA AND SHE HAD TO RIDE A STAGECOACH TO MEET HIM. BUT, ANYWAY, HE STARTED HOMESTEADING HERE AND THIS IS IN THE LATE 1800'S. >> HOMESTEADING; WAS THAT A BIG PART OF OUR TOE HOLD HERE? WAS HOMESTEADING PART OF THAT PROCESS? >> I THINK SO, SOME OF THE FAMILIES THAT WE TALKED TO, YES, AND THEY HAD QUITE A BIT OF TRACTS OF LAND AND THEY WORKED IT, YOU KNOW. WE WERE TALKING TO OTHER FAMILIES THAT CAME OUT, YES, THEY DID HAVE -- THEY WERE HOMESTEADING. >> INTERESTING, RITA, I CAN REMEMBER YEARS AGO SITTING DOWN WITH YOUR HUSBAND JOE TALKING ABOUT ENTREPRENEURSHIP HERE IN AFRICAN AMERICANS AND THERE WAS A GREAT PICTURE HE SHOWED ME ABOUT THIRD AND GOLD DOWNTOWN. I BELIEVE IT WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MESSENGER SERVICE THAT WAS THE BIGGEST IN ALBUQUERQUE DURING THE -- IT WAS AMAZING. >> YEAH. TALK ABOUT THAT, OUR ENTREPRENEURSHIP OVER TIME.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE FASCINATING THINGS ABOUT THE TRAVELING THE STATE, SANTA FE, LAS VEGAS, NEW MEXICO, LAS CRUCES AND THEN, OF COURSE, ALBUQUERQUE, AND THE BIGGEST THING YOU FIND IS THAT COMING INTO THIS NEW LAND THAT HAD JOB CEILINGS AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM, WHAT HAPPENED WITHIN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY WAS OUR OWN SOVEREIGN DEFINITION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP SO A LOT OF BUSINESSES STARTED WITHIN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY FROM THE GROCERY STORE IN LAS CRUCES AND THEN YOU COME HERE AND YOU HAVE BOARDING HOUSES. YOU HAD HOTELS BECAUSE AFRICAN AMERICANS COULD NOT LODGE WHERE EVERYBODY LODGED, SO IT STARTED A BOARDING HOUSE, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY, AND YOUR HOTEL INDUSTRY AND, OF COURSE, WE NEEDED BARBERS AND BEAUTICIANS AND WE SET UP, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE CHURCHES BECAME. WE HAD CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE YOU SAID,

DELIVERY SERVICE WHICH HAD A BUILDING, WHICH HOUSED OTHER THINGS WITHIN IT. YOU HAD ONE OF THE FIRST DOCTORS WHO CAME TO ALBUQUERQUE RESIDED IN THE BUILDING THAT WAS OWNED BY BRYANT DELIVERY SERVICE AND YOU HAD THE AFRICAN AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS WHICH WERE ENTREPRENEURIAL BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND WE NEEDED TO KNOW BETWEEN COMMUNITIES AND WHAT TO FIGHT. SO, WHEN SEGREGATION -- WHEN THE STATE DECIDED TO SEGREGATE, ONE OF THE WAYS WE FOUND OUT WAS THROUGH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS AND ENTREPRENEURIAL THINGS IN AREAS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE COMING TO NEW MEXICO FOR LIKE THE TUBERCULOSIS, SO, ONE OF THE EARLY DENTISTS HAD A TUBERCULOSIS CLINIC, AND THE WOMEN HAD CATERING AND THEY HAD A CATERING SERVICE AND WE USED ALL OF THESE THINGS TO DEFINE OURSELVES AND OUR

COMMUNITY AND TO GIVE OUR CHILDREN HOPE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED ENTREPRENEURIAL ENDEAVORS DID SO BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING BLOCKED IN THE AREA THEY WERE PASSIONATE ABOUT. SO A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME HERE, COLLEGE EDUCATED TO BE SCHOOL TEACHERS AND THEY COULD NOT BE SCHOOL TEACHERS, SO THEY BECAME PORTERS AND THEY BECAME POSTAL CARRIERS AND ON THE TRAINS AND THEY BECAME JANITORS, BUT THE OTHER THING THEY DID WAS THEY STARTED BUSINESSES THAT GAVE THEM VALUE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. SO WHEN I COME INTO THIS COMMUNITY I HAVE ANOTHER DEFINITION THAT GIVES ME VALUE AND MAKES ME VITAL AND GIVES MY CHILDREN THE HOPE THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CYNICAL, YOU NEED TO KEEP GOING, YOU NEED TO -- SO, YOU NEED TO NOT LET THESE FEELINGS STOP YOU AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHILDREN

OF THESE EARLY SETTLERS, THEY ACCOMPLISHED AMAZING, AMAZING THINGS, EDUCATIONALLY. YEAH. >> IT IS INTERESTING, I AM THINKING TO THAT PICTURE AND OTHERS AND THE BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT ARE IN THE PICTURE IS JUST LIKE BLAM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, LIKE, THIS IS WHO I AM, I RUN THIS BUSINESS, I AM IMPORTANT TO THIS COMMUNITY. THE PRIDE OF IT WAS JUST SO IMPACTFUL. BUT, CHALLENGES, GEORGE, ALONG THE WAY. I HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF FOLKS HERE WHO JUST DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY SUCH THING AS SEGREGATION IN NEW MEXICO. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE, JUST NEVER HAPPENED. YOU KNOW. IT IS INTERESTING, ISN'T IT? BUT LET ME POINT OUT SOMETHING ABOUT THE ENTREPRENEURSHIP ASPECT. AT THE BRANCH THIS MONTH, WE HAD AN AUTHOR WHO WROTE A BOOK ABOUT A GENTLEMAN NAMED BUD FOWLER. BUD FOWLER WAS A BLACK PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER AND HE ACTUALLY INTEGRATED

BASEBALL MAYBE 60 YEARS BEFORE JACKIE ROBINSON. WHAT IS KEY TO BUD FOWLER IN NEW MEXICO IS THAT BUD FOWLER TRAVELED FROM NEW YORK AND HE WENT TO THE MIDWEST AND HE ENDED UP IN SANTA FE IN THE LATE 1800'S AND AT THAT TIME SANTA FE HAD A PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL TEAM AND THEY WON, IF YOU WILL, THE WORLD SERIES AT THAT TIME. AND, IT IS FASCINATING THAT THESE CHARACTERS DO COME INTO THE AREA INTO NEW MEXICO, INTO SANTA FE AND ALBUQUERQUE, AND ESTABLISH A LEGACY THAT OUR STUDENTS TODAY NEED TO LEARN ABOUT. SO, THIS MAN, JEFF LANG, WROTE THIS WONDERFUL BOOK AND HE IS TRYING TO GET THIS CHARACTER BUD FOWLER INTO THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME. YEAH. IRONICALLY, BUD FOWLER WAS OUT OF NEW YORK STATE AND HE LIVED

BLOCKS AWAY FROM COOPERSTOWN WHERE THE HALL OF FAME IS, BUT HIS STORY REACHES SANTA FE AND REACHES NEW MEXICO. AND AS I AM LEARNING, THERE ARE OTHER CHARACTERS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE EVEN AS RECENT AS ROBERT LAWRENCE CELEBRATED THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN, HE ESTABLISHED ROOTS IN HIS LATER YEARS IN SANTA FE. AND HE BECAME A LIVING LEGEND. THERE IS MANY OTHER CHARACTERS THAT ARE IN OUR HISTORY. IN SANTA FE WE HAVE A CEMETERY, THE FAIRVIEW CEMETERY, AND INTERRED THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT AFRICAN AMERICAN FAMILIES; SLAUGHTER AND ROBERTS ARE IN THERE. AND, THEY HAVE RICH STORIES OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP, ESTABLISHING BUSINESSES AND AFRICAN AMERICAN IDENTITY IN SANTA FE AND ALBUQUERQUE AND NEW MEXICO AT LARGE.

SO, WE ARE HERE. WE HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SEGREGATION AND RACISM LIKE ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE COUNTRY MORE SO IN THE SOUTHERN HALF OF THE STATE THAN THE NORTHERN HALF OF THE STATE. AND MAINLY THE DIFFERENCE IS THE NUMBERS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO TRAVELED THROUGH THE STATE. AS MIGRATION HAPPENED FROM THE SOUTH, MISSISSIPPI, ALABAMA THROUGH TEXAS THAT MIGRATORY PATTERN CAME MOSTLY THROUGH THE SOUTHERN HALF OF THE STATE. PEOPLE DIDN'T GO TO THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE, SO, YES, WE ARE HERE, WE HAVE BEEN HERE. THAT HISTORY NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED AND -- >> IT IS INTERESTING -- >> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT SHOWS YOU THE STRENGTH OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME BECAUSE WE THE BARRIERS AND FORGE AHEAD BECAUSE WE HAD THIS STRENGTH. WE KNEW THAT WE ARE OUT HERE AND WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS OUR HOME AND YOU KNOW I THINK

THAT STRENGTH IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PASS ON TO OUR CHILDREN TOO BECAUSE KNOWING THAT WE HAVE BEEN IN PLACES THAT WE HAVE JUST MADE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING AND WE CAN SEE WHERE WE CAN GO AND MAKE -- THAT IS WHY SOME OF THOSE SERVICE JOBS BECAME AVAILABLE BECAUSE THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A NEED HERE. I THINK I CAN FILL THIS NEED. AND I THINK THAT IS A STRENGTH THAT WE PASS ON TO OUR CHILDREN. >> IT IS SUCH A RICH TOPIC. THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN HANDLE IN 15 MINUTES. I WOULD LOVE TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU ALL AGAIN AND TALK ABOUT THIS. THE SPORTS STUFF IS FASCINATING, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, A PROJECT YOUR HUSBAND WAS WORKING ON A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, BUT THE AMOUNT OF ATHLETES THAT HAVE BEEN OLYMPIC MEDAL WINNERS FROM THE STATE THAT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT, IT IS AMAZING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN, BRENDA, GEORGE AND RITA, THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT. DON'T FORGET THE SIX PART SERIES, "AFRICAN AMERICANS; MANY RIVERS TO CROSS," STARTS OCTOBER 22 AT 7:00 P.M. RIGHT

HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS. >> WORRY ABOUT THIS SAYING BY MINING INDUSTRY DOESN'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY THIS SPECIFIC RULE ANYMORE OR THIS WAY OF PROTECTING GROUNDWATER. THAT SORT OF OPENS THE DOOR FOR OTHER MINING INDUSTRIES AND THAT IS WHY THE NEW MEXICO MINING SUPPORTS THE NEW RULE THAT ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT HAS ADOPTED BECAUSE THEY ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT WILL AFFECT OTHER TYPES OF MINING. >> AFTER MORE THAN TWO WEEKS ON THE EVE OF DEFAULTING ON THE DEBT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS REOPENED AND FURLOUGHED WORKERS HAVE BEEN PROMISED BACK PAY FOR THE TIME THEY WERE LAID OFF. THE DEBT CEILING HAS BEEN RAISED THROUGH FEBRUARY 7, BUT, LAWMAKERS DIDN'T RESOLVE ANY LONGSTANDING DIVIDES ON FISCAL POLICY, NOT EVEN CLOSE, SO THE SAME ISSUES WILL BE DEBATED IN COMING MONTHS. THE TURMOIL HAS HIGHLIGHTED YET AGAIN NEW MEXICO'S

ECONOMY. WILL THIS CHANGE ANYTHING? I LIKE THE PIECE YOU DID THIS PAST WEEK BEFORE THIS GOT SOLVED ABOUT HOW DO WE GET OFF THE FEDERAL DOLE. >> HOW DOES NEW MEXICO BECOME LESS VULNERABLE TO SHUTDOWNS. >> HERE IS MY QUESTION, NOW THAT WE CAME TO THE EDGE, SO TO SPEAK, HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND LOOKED DOWN, DO YOU PREDICT ANY MARKET CHANGE IN PEOPLES' ATTITUDES ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE THAT MEANS WE NEED TO GET OFF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME. WAS THE THING TO PUSH IT ACROSS THE LINE HERE? PUSH IT ACROSS THE LINE, MAYBE IT TAKES IT A FEW MORE INCHES TOWARDS THE LINE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, NEW MEXICO WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS. MANY PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT, SOMETHING LIKE 1/3 OF NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY IS TIED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY TO FEDERAL SPENDING, SO THAT BEGS THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE DO TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A MORE DIVERSIFIED ECONOMY? >> QUOTES FROM FOLKS OUT THERE WHO TALKED ABOUT EVERYTHING

FROM TAXES TO BUSINESS FRIENDLY STUFF. FAIRLY NOT YOUR FAULT FOR JUST REPORTING QUOTES. WE HAVE HEARD A LOT OF THAT BEFORE, SOPHIE, I GUESS THIS IS AN ERA WE'RE COMING UP ON, OKAY, THEN WHAT? THIS IS SIMILAR TO THE SUBJECT WE JUST TOOK ON WITH EDUCATING KIDS, WHAT IS GOING TO BE WAITING FOR THEM DOWN THE ROAD? WHAT KIND OF JOBS, WHAT DO THOSE LOOK LIKE? IF THEY ARE NOT FEDERAL JOBS, WHAT ARE OUR STRENGTHS? THESE ARE THE CONVERSATIONS WE >> ONE OF THE TREMENDOUS CHALLENGES FOR US IN NEW MEXICO IS WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND THE MARKETPLACE, ONE OF THE MOST STABLE CUSTOMERS, THIS MOST RECENT PERIOD ASIDE, ACTUALLY, IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CONTRACTORS -- AND I WANTED TO MAKE THIS POINT, YOU IN YOUR INTRO, YOU SAID THE FURLOUGHED WORKERS WILL BE PAID. THAT IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE IS IT BECAUSE THE FURLOUGHED FEDERAL WORKERS WILL BE PAID, BUT THE MANY CONTRACTORS -- THIS ISN'T, OF COURSE, COUNTING SANDIA, ILLEGAL CONTRACTORS WHO NEVER WENT ON FURLOUGH, BUT WE HAVE OUTSOURCED AN AWFUL LOT OF FEDERAL WORK TO CONTRACTORS WHO WILL NOT BE PAID AND WHO WERE FURLOUGHED.

AND SO, WE LOOK AROUND THE MARKETPLACE, WHO IS OUR BEST CUSTOMER? IT IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR CONTRACTORS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, LIKE HONEYWELL, LIKE URF, WE HAVE THESE BIG, BIG COMPANIES WHO ARE DOING BUSINESS HERE AND THEN THEY ARE DOING BUSINESS WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND SO IT WOULD BE SURPRISING IF BUSINESS HERE STARTUPS WEREN'T LOOKING AGAIN TO THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY THE BILLS. >> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT AND THE REASON I AGREE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE COMPANIES YOU JUST NAMED, IT IS DIFFICULT TO FIND, IN ANY STATE RIGHT NOW, COMPANIES THAT CAN HIRE IN LOTS OF 100, 150, 250, 350. AS OPPOSED TO THE CASE WE DO WITH MOM AND POPS HIRING ONE, TWO, THREE AT A TIME. IS IT REALLY POSSIBLE TO ATTRACT THOSE BUSINESS FOOTPRINTS WITHOUT SOME CONNECTION TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AT ALL; THEIR BUSINESS. YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN. IT IS A TRICKY ONE. POSSIBLE AND I ALSO THINK IT IS WORTH LOOKING AT CONTRACTORS VERSUS FEDERAL WORKERS, YOU HAVE A FEDERAL WORKER WHO HAS A STABLE JOB,

THEY ARE MAKING GOOD MONEY, THEY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, THEY HAVE RETIREMENT, THEY ARE THE HOMEOWNERS, THEY ARE THE PEOPLE BUYING NEW CARS AND VEHICLES, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES, AND I THINK THAT GETS OVERLOOKED WHEN PEOPLE START SORT OF SCREAMING ABOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THOSE ARE STABLE TAX PAYING COMMUNITY MEMBERS. DO WE REALLY WANT -- DO WE WANT TO CUT THAT BACK AS MUCH AS WE SAY WE DO. MAYBE THOSE CONTRACT WORKERS AREN'T AS STABLE JOBS, YOU MIGHT MAKE MORE SALARY AS A CONTRACT WORKER THAN A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE BUT WITH A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE, YOU HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF JOB SECURITY AND YOU HAVE RETIREMENT, SOMETHING THAT IS NOT SO COMMON THESE DAYS. >> INTERESTINGLY, STEVE, THE POINT YOU GUYS ARE MAKING REALLY CAME HOME TO ME WITH 290 CONTRACTORS FURLOUGHED FROM LANL THAT WERE DOING THE WASTE WORK AND ALL THE STUFF WE HAD FROM FLOODS AND FIRES. I KEPT THINKING, WELL, WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THAT? THAT IS AN AWFUL LOT OF CONTRACTORS WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND SPECIFICALLY AROUND LOS ALAMOS. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MAKE UP FOR THAT. THAT IS A VERY INTERESTING THING. THAT YOU GO BACK TO THE FUNDAMENTALS OF WHAT MAKES THE ECONOMY GO AND YOU CAN'T REALLY -- YOU KNOW -- IT GOES BACK TO OUR FIRST TOPIC, EDUCATION. IT GOES BACK TO INFRASTRUCTURE. IT GOES BACK TO WHAT BUSINESSES -- THIS IS IN ROB'S ARTICLE, ACTUALLY, GOES TO WHAT BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. AND, PERSONALLY, I WOULD RATHER SEE TARGETED INCENTIVES TO BUSINESSES TO COME IN RATHER THAN THESE GENERAL CORPORATE TAX CUTS. I THINK THAT IS A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY OF DOING IT, PROMISING A BUSINESS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INCENTIVE IF THEY STAY, HAVING CLAWBACKS IF THEY DON'T STAY, I THINK THAT IS A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY AND MAYBE WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, BUT TO YOUR BASIC POINT IT IS A LONG HAUL. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD EXPECT A QUICK RESULT. >> SURE, THAT ALSO MEANS, SOPHIE, WHAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOLKS HAVE TO DO IS FORECAST, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE GLOBAL

ECONOMY AND HOW DO WE FIT IN. WE HAVE HAD UPS AND DOWNS ON THIS, IF YOU THINK BACK TO CHIP MAKING AND ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE HAD OVER THE YEARS. >> SPACE TRAVEL. >> YEAH. >> SO, THAT STABILITY STEVE IS TALKING ABOUT IS A DIFFICULTY, SO, ARE WE JUST GOING TO BE A BUNCH OF ENTREPRENEURS HERE AT RISK TO EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME. >> I DON'T THINK THAT IS NECESSARILY THE CASE. I MEAN, CERTAINLY, NEW MEXICO HAS BENEFITED FROM SOME STABILITY THROUGH GOVERNMENT WORK. I CAN FORECAST THIS. WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF STABILITY THROUGH JANUARY AS PEOPLE LOOK -- AND THAT IS GOING TO BE ON PERSONAL CHECKBOOKS. >> I DON'T THINK THAT QUALIFIES AS A FORECAST. >> I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE REALLY CAUTIOUS WITH HOW THEY SPEND. THAT IS GOING TO HIT OUR MARKET HARD. >> JUST AHEAD WE LOOK AT THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE STATES NEW RULES ON COPPER MINING AND THE PUSH TO OVERTURN IT. WHO IS HISPANIC, SO, WHOEVER IS GOING TO GET THE NOMINATION

IS GOING TO RUN AGAINST A HISPANIC REPUBLICAN AND A LOT OF TIMES, ESPECIALLY WHEN I TALK TO COLLEAGUES ABOUT POLITICS AND HANDICAPPING THINGS, I THINK A LOT OF TIMES ETHNICITY OF A CANDIDATE, ESPECIALLY A HISPANIC CANDIDATE, IN NEW MEXICO IS UNDERPLAYED. I THINK THAT IS A BIG DEAL SO I THINK HE HAS A -- SENATOR MORALES HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING THAT NOMINATION. THE FIELD IS NOT NECESSARILY THE STRONGEST, BUT GOVERNOR MARTINEZ HAS SO MUCH MONEY. >> BUFFALO SOLDIERS WERE ESTABLISHED AFTER THE CIVIL WAR TO PROTECT ISOLATED SETTLEMENTS AND ESTABLISH TOWNS THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHWEST. IN THIS MOMENT IN TIME VIDEO A GROUP OF REENACTORS, ALL MEMBERS OF THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS SOCIETY OF NEW MEXICO, SHARE INSIGHTS INTO THE HISTORY OF THESE MEN AND HOW THEY CONTRIBUTED TO NEW MEXICO ACHIEVING STATEHOOD IN 1912.

>> WHEN YOU'RE UNDER FIRE AND YOU'RE LAYING THERE AND YOU KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO GET UP BUT YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO GET UP BECAUSE IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THE MISSION AND IN ORDER TO SAVE THE GUY TO YOUR LEFT OR TO YOUR RIGHT, YOU GOT TO DO YOUR JOB, AND THAT MEANS GETTING UP. THAT IS BRAVERY, THAT IS THE COURAGE I THINK THOSE BUFFALO SOLDIERS HAD. [CALL TO ARMS SOUNDING] >> NATIVE AMERICANS FOUND THAT OUTNUMBERED WE WOULD NOT LEAVE STAND AND FIGHT. AND, THAT REPRESENTED TO THEM THE VERY MOST FEROCIOUS ANIMAL IN THEIR LIFE, A WOUNDED BUFFALO, AND IT WAS THAT

CORRELATION THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE NAMING OF US AS THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS. [DRUM AND PIPE MUSIC] >> WHEN THE CIVIL WAR WAS OVER, SOLDIER WAS ABLE TO GO BACK TO THE JOBS THEY HAD. SO, CREATED 10 UNITS AND SIX OF THEM WERE BLACK AND -- THERE WASN'T A WHOLE LOT OUT HERE AT THAT TIME -- OUT HERE IT WAS DIFFERENT. [DRUM AND PIPE MUSIC] >> AND THE HARDSHIPS THESE MEN WERE CONFRONTED WITH BROUGHT A NEW LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND APPRECIATION FOR WHAT THESE PEOPLE HAD DONE.

THEY FOUGHT UNDER THE WORST CONDITIONS. THEY HAD ONE OF THE LARGEST AREAS IN THE UNITED STATES AND THEY NEEDED TO RIDE HORSES. THEY DIDN'T RIDE ALL THAT TIME, THEY WALKED A WHOLE LOT OF IT BECAUSE IT WAS BAD TO BE IN THE SADDLE THAT LONG. THEY GAVE THEM HORSES THAT THEY WAS PROBABLY GOING TO KILL -- THEY MADE THE MOST OUT OF IT. MUCH INVOLVED WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER ACTIVITIES. THEY WOULD BUILD FOR THE TELEGRAPH LINES, ROADS, THEY ESCORTED STAGECOACHES, CATTLE DRIVES, THERE WERE STRIKES THEY GOT INVOLVED IN TO SETTLE.

THEY GUARDED THE U.S. MAIL. >> THE WHITE OFFICER WHO WAS A COLONEL, HE WASN'T GOING TO COME TO TOWN TO BUY GROCERIES. [SORROWFUL MUSIC] >> THE OTHER ISSUE THAT WE CONFRONTED CONSTANTLY WERE WHEN IN FACT WE WENT INTO TOWNS, YOU HAD, DEPENDING ON THE LOCATION, SOME REAL PREJUDICE THERE AND THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT FIGHTS, SOMETIMES SHOOTINGS AND A COUPLE OF DEATHS OCCURRED AS A RESULT OF THE CONFRONTATIONS WITH THE VERY CITIZENS WHO WE WERE TRYING TO PROTECT. >> THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO BY ANYBODY. >> THE BLACK SOLDIER, IT WAS REALLY HARD BECAUSE THEY HAD

TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. AND WHERE THEY SOMETIMES CHOSE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, ESPECIALLY IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN, WAS THROWN INTO JAIL OR BEATEN UP, THEY WOULD COME FROM THE POST WITH THEIR CARBINES AND PISTOLS AND GET IN A CONFRONTATION WITH THE LOCAL TOWNS PEOPLE. AT THE SAME TIME, THAT PREJUDICE AND DISCRIMINATION COULD BOND THEM TOGETHER AND THEY WOULD DEPEND UPON EACH OTHER EVEN MORE SO.

>> THEY WERE INVOLVED VERY MUCH WITH BRINGING PEACE TO THE AREAS THAT WERE LITERALLY BEING CONTROLLED BY OUTLAWS AND RENEGADES. CHIEF. ALL HE WANTED TO DO WAS GO BACK TO OJO CALIENTE. HE WANTED TO GO HOME. SO, VICTORIO AND HIS BAND BEGAN TO RAID AGAINST THE MINERS, AGAINST FARMS, AGAINST RANCHERS. AND, THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS, ALONG WITH THE WHITE CALVARY UNITS, WERE GIVEN THE MISSION TO CHASE THEM DOWN AND BRING THEM BACK. >> WE WERE INVOLVED WITH A BATTLE WITH THE APACHES,

SEEING A WOUNDED BLACK TROOPER IN MY UNIT, UNDER HEAVY FIRE, RUSHED SOME 200 YARDS TO HIS AID, PUT HIM ON MY BACK AND BROUGHT HIM BACK TO SAFETY. THE VERY SAME THING HAPPENED WITH ONE OF OUR SERGEANTS. THE BOTH OF US SEVERAL YEARS LATER RECEIVED THE MEDAL OF HONOR FOR THAT ACTION. [BAND MUSIC] >> IF THEY HADN'T BEEN

STATIONED OUT HERE AND SERVED OUT HERE, NEW MEXICO MIGHT HAVE BECOME A STATE, BUT IT WOULD BE A LONG TIME. >> LEGACY OF THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS IS A LEGACY OF BRAVERY AND COURAGE AND OF DOING JOBS THAT NOBODY ELSE WOULD DO. THEY TOOK IT FROM A TERRITORY TO A STATE AND THAT IS THE IMPORTANT THING I THINK THAT ALL NEW MEXICANS AND AMERICANS NEED TO REMEMBER. >> HAVING A CIVILIZED NATION IS WHAT CAUSED STATEHOOD TO COME IN. PEOPLE SAID, NO, NO IF IT IS NOT CIVILIZED, THEY AIN'T GOING TO MAKE IT NO STATE. >> TWO WEEKS AGO, STATE REGULATORS ON THE WATER QUALITY CONTROL COMMISSION ADOPTED A NEW RULE FOR COPPER MINING COMPANIES. CRITICS SAY IT OVERTURNS NEW MEXICO'S EFFORTS TO PROTECT

GROUNDWATER AND POSSIBLY PROVIDE A LOOPHOLE FOR OTHER INDUSTRY TO POLLUTE AQUIFERS. MINING OFFICIALS IN THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT CONTEND NEW RULES STREAMLINE PERMITTING AND OFFER MORE PROTECTIONS ACTUALLY TO GROUNDWATER, BUT, ATTORNEY GENERAL GARY KING, TED TURNER AND SEVERAL GROUPS WANT THE STATE OF COURT OF APPEALS TO HALT THE RULE, CLAIM IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND VIOLATES MANDATE TO PREVENT WATER POLLUTION. LAURA PASKUS, YOU COVERED THIS EXTENSIVELY AND QUITE WELL. THERE WAS AN INCREDIBLY LONG PROCESS ALREADY IN PLACE AND IT WENT BY THE WAYSIDE IN THIS CASE SO THAT A LOT OF MONEY SPENT OVER MANY MONTHS AND A LOT OF MONEY COULD POSSIBLY BE SPENT ON LITIGATION, INSTEAD. WHERE DO WE STAND NOW THAT MR. KING WEIGHED IN ON THIS? WHAT WOULD HAPPENS NOW THAT HE WEIGHED IN. APPEAL HAS BEEN FILED, UNLESS THE JUDGE ISSUES A STAY, THE NEW RULE WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE STATE REGISTER AND COME INTO EFFECT AFTER 30 DAYS. >> INTERESTING.

>> NOW, YOUR SENSE OF WHERE THE COURTS AND JUDGES ARE LEANING NOW. CAN YOU GET ANY GLEAN ANYTHING AT THIS POINT? >> I CAN'T. I MEAN, I HAVE -- THERE IS ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THE ISSUE. YOU COULD SAY IT IS LIKE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS VERSUS MINING COMPANIES AND I THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT THE WAY TO LOOK AT IT. THERE WAS A PROCESS IN PLACE, LEGISLATURE DIRECTED THE STATE TO COME UP WITH THIS NEW RULE FOR COPPER MINING COMPANIES AND THEY WERE DIRECTED TO WORK WITH STAKEHOLDERS WHO WOULD AGREE ON THE FINAL RULE SO THERE WAS THIS BIG LONG PROCESS THAT, YOU KNOW, TOOK SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS. THE STATE HIRED A RETIRED BUREAU CHIEF WHO IS A GROUNDWATER EXPERT AND HE SORT OF HERDED ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS AND IT WAS MONTHS AND MONTHS OF MEETINGS AND STAKEHOLDERS COMING TOGETHER AND AGREEING AND DISAGREEING AND THERE WAS THIS DRAFT RULE THAT WAS THE PRODUCT OF ALL THESE STAKEHOLDERS AND EXPERTS

COMING TOGETHER AND THAT RULE WAS AT THE NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT AND IT WAS TWEAKED BY THE GENERAL COUNSEL, WHO IS NOW THE ENVIRONMENT SECRETARY. AND I THINK THAT IS WORTH PAYING ATTENTION TO, THAT THERE WAS A PROCESS AND IT WAS CHANGED AND THAT WAS THE RULE THAT THE WATER QUALITY COMMISSION VOTED ON AND ADOPTED. SO, I THINK THERE IS THESE PROCESS ISSUES THAT IT WOULD BE HARD TO IMAGINE THAT THE COURT COULDN'T TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THOSE. >> THAT IS INTERESTING, ONE MORE THING ABOUT CONTEXT, WHAT INTERESTS ME ABOUT THIS IS, WE TALK ABOUT COPPER MINES AND DAIRY FARMS BUT IT IS A VAST ARRAY OF SITUATIONS THAT USE WATER, ISN'T IT, 900 SOME LOCATIONS STATE-WIDE, DO I HAVE THAT CORRECT? >> RIGHT. SO, FOR THE COPPER RULE IN PARTICULAR, THERE IS CURRENTLY THREE COPPER MINES IN THE STATE THAT ARE OWNED BY FREEPORT MCMORAN AND THOSE THREE COPPER MINES HAVE ABOUT -- THE GROUNDWATER BELOW ABOUT 20,000 ACRES IS POLLUTED. SO, THESE ARE INDUSTRIES THAT PROVIDE JOBS, THESE ARE INDUSTRIES THAT PROVIDE REVENUE TO THE STATE, THEY ARE

HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT BUT THEY ALSO IMPACT OUR GROUNDWATER RESOURCES WHICH ARE SUPER IMPORTANT IN A STATE LIKE NEW MEXICO. AND THE WORRY IS THAT THIS -- BY SAYING, OKAY COPPER MINING INDUSTRY DOESN'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY THIS SPECIFIC RULE ANYMORE, OR THIS WAY OF PROTECTING GROUNDWATER, THAT SORT OF OPENS THE DOOR FOR OTHER MINING INDUSTRIES AND THAT IS WHY THE NEW MEXICO MINING ASSOCIATION SUPPORTS THE NEW RULE THAT THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT HAS ADOPTED BECAUSE THEY ARE INTERESTED TO SEE HOW IT WILL AFFECT OTHER TYPES OF MINING. >> SOPHIE, ON LEGALITIES THAT LAURA MENTIONED, YOUR SENSE OF THIS. I AM CURIOUS, IT JUST SEEMS TO ME EVERYBODY WANTS A WAIVER. IT IS JUST ONE THING HAS TO HAPPEN OR THE OTHER THING HAS TO HAPPEN, EITHER YOU'RE IN COMPLIANCE OR YOU'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE. AND I AM JUST CURIOUS HOW WITH PROCESS THAT TOOK A HIT HERE, WHAT IS THE LEGAL ISSUES HERE?

>> LAURA DID A BEAUTIFUL JOB OF DESCRIBING WHAT HAPPENED AND WHEN SHE DESCRIBES THE TWEAK THAT OCCURRED, THE TWEAK REALLY IS THE GRANTING, IN MY MIND, GRANTING OF THE MOTHER OF ALL WAIVERS, SORT OF A SUPER WAIVER. WHICH IS THAT THE COPPER COMPANY GOES FROM HAVING TO ASK PERMISSION EACH TIME THAT IT WANTS TO VIOLATE THE RULE TO GETTING KIND OF A BLANKET PERMISSION TO VIOLATE THE RULE. AND, TO CLEAN IT UP AFTERWARDS IF IT TURNS OUT THAT WAS A PROBLEM. THAT IS A BIG CHANGE. THAT IS A BIG CHANGE AND THAT IS A BIG TWEAK. SO, THE QUESTION THAT I THINK IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED IS SOMETHING THAT LAURA TOUCHED ON, FIRST OF ALL CAN YOU HAVE THAT SHIFT IN THE PROCESS, CAN YOU SEE THAT CHANGE? AND THAT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING QUESTION, AS THE COURT TAKES THAT UP, BUT, THEN, ALSO, THERE IS, THIS

INTERESTING QUESTION OF WILL THAT ACTUALLY, IF IT IS ALLOWED TO GO FORWARD, WILL THAT AFFECT OTHER INDUSTRIES, WILL THAT HAVE THAT RIPPLE EFFECT? >> LET'S TAKE THAT UP WITH ROB, UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IS PART OF THE FEAR HERE. YOUR SENSE OF THAT, WHERE OTHER INDUSTRIES ARE WATCHING. >> MY SENSE ON THIS, THIS GOES BACK TO THE OVERALL QUESTION TRYING TO IMPROVE THE ECONOMICS AND TRYING TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT. REMINDS ME A LOT OF THE DEBATE FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHEN SUSANA MARTINEZ BECAME THE GOVERNOR AND REPLACED BILL RICHARDSON AND THE WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD, WHICH WAS PACKED BY RICHARDSON PEOPLE WHO HAD CONSERVATION BACKGROUND AND REPLACED BY SUSANA MARTINEZ' PEOPLE WHO HAD AN INDUSTRY BACKGROUND, AND DEPENDING WHICH WAY YOUR POLITICAL PERSUASION IS, EITHER BILL RICHARDSON OVERSTEPPED THINGS BY HAVING CAP AND TRADE AND SUSANA MARTINEZ CORRECTED THAT OR VICE VERSA. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD

BRING UP IS THAT IT APPEARS THAT TWO UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS, PRESIDENT AT WESTERN NEW MEXICO AND ALSO NEW MEXICO TECH HAVE COME OUT IN FAVOR OF THESE NEW RULES, SO IT IS NOT JUST THE BIG BAD MINING COMPANIES AGAINST THE ENVIRONMENT. >> A FEW SECONDS LEFT, YOUR SENSE OF THIS AS WELL, WHERE THIS PROCESS HANGS RIGHT NOW. >> INDUSTRY HAS SOME ARGUMENT. INDUSTRY SAYS THERE IS WAIVERS EVERY FIVE YEARS, SO WHY NOT WE'LL PUT A MONITORING WELL ALL AROUND THIS THING AND IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, WE'LL FIX IT. THE QUESTION FOR THE COURT IS, IS THERE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE RULE? AND THAT WILL BE THE ULTIMATE QUESTION. THE PROCESS QUESTIONS TEND TO FLAME OUT ON APPEAL BECAUSE REALLY IT IS WHETHER THERE IS SUPPORT IN THE RECORD FOR THE RULE THAT WAS ADOPTED. >> IS IT YOUR SENSE THAT YOU THINK INDUSTRY MIGHT GET WHAT THEY NEED HERE? >> I THINK THEY HAVE A VERY -- WHAT BOTHERS ME, PEOPLE LIKE RICK MAY COMES FORWARD AND SAY, HEY, THIS GUY WAS A BUDGET HAWK, A CONSERVATIVE, AND HE SAYS, WELL, I WAS IN THE MARTINEZ ADMINISTRATION, THEY NEVER EVEN ASKED ME ABOUT

ANYTHING ON THE BUDGET, ALL THEY CARED ABOUT WAS POLITICS, SO, IF THIS IS JUST WHAT SUSANA MARTINEZ RAN ON, IF THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, THAT IS BAD. IF THERE IS A GOOD RATIONAL EXPLANATION FOR IT, THAT IS GOOD FOR THE STATE. >> GOOD WAY TO FINISH. ON THE CLOCK WITH A MINUTE TO EXPLORE A HANDFUL OF NOTABLE HEADLINES FROM THE WEEK. FIRST UP, RANCH FOR TROUBLED YOUTH IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO HAS COME UNDER SUSPICION OF POSSIBLE ABUSE AND THINGS CAME TO A HEAD THIS PAST WEEKEND WHEN STATE POLICE ISSUED AN AMBER ALERT FOR MISSING TEENS, SINCE THEN THEY WERE FOUND WITH PARENTS AND GUARDIANS AND RANCH OWNER IS SUING THE STATE OVER THE INVESTIGATION AND ALLEGATIONS THAT THE RANCH RESIDENTS WERE SHACKLED AND BEATEN BY STAFF MEMBERS. MANY QUESTIONS LINGER. DID THE STATE OVERREACT OR DID OFFICIALS LOOK THE OTHER WAY FOR TOO LONG WHEN QUESTIONS AROSE? ODD STORY THAT CONTINUES TO BE ODD AS IT EVOLVES, BUT AS WE WITH THE WAY THE STATE POLICE HANDLED THE AMBER ALERT. I THOUGHT IT WAS SLIPSHOD AND SENT THE WHOLE STATE INTO A TIZZY. ON THE ISSUE OF THIS RANCH AND THESE BOY, WHAT IS GOING ON

THERE? >> THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. ON THE ONE HAND, YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AND SAY, WELL, MAYBE THE STATE OVERREACTED ON THIS THING, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE. THE OTHER THING THAT -- >> IT WAS 2006 THEY WERE FIRST CONCERNED ABOUT THIS RANCH AND NOW IT COMES TO A HEAD. >> ALSO, THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL WROTE A STORY ABOUT THIS OR WROTE A NUMBER OF STORIES ABOUT IT AND I CHECKED THE COMMENT SECTION AND YOU CAN SEE THE SAME SORT OF DIVIDE. THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT WERE DEFENDING MR. CHANDLER WHO IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND PEOPLE WHO WERE BEING CRITICS OF HIM. >> THIS SORT OF PROGRAM IS HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND I PERSONALLY THINK IT IS SOMETHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT. ALLEGATIONS, I THINK, ARE QUITE SERIOUS. >> THE LEGAL LOOPHOLE WHERE THE GUY IS THE LEGAL GUARDIAN OF THE KIDS SO NOBODY CAN COME AND INSPECT OR OVERSEE THIS THING.

>> THAT IS WORRISOME NOT JUST HERE BUT NATIONWIDE AND I ALSO THINK THIS IS A DAMMED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T SITUATION. IF AT THE END OF THE DAY THOSE KIDS HAD BEEN DISCOVERED HARMED, WHY WASN'T THERE AN AMBER ALERT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE QUESTION. >> HOLD YOU GUYS THERE, GOOD STORY THOUGH. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DELIVERED A SUBPOENA TO A REPORTER SEEKING INFORMATION ON A FORMER EMPLOYEE WHO IS SUING THE STATE FOR ALLEGED VIOLATIONS OF THE WHISTLE BLOWER PROTECTION ACT. THE DOH IS SEEKING ALL NOTES AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN EMPLOYEE JOEY PETERS AND A FORMER EMPLOYEE. AND PETERS COULD BE HELD IN CONTEMPT FOR FAILING TO COMPLY. LAURA, I DON'T THINK THIS STORY IS GOING DOWN WELL AT THIS TABLE. IT BUGS ME. YOU WERE THE PRESIDENT OF THE RIO GRANDE CHAPTER, THIS IS -- YOUR ORGANIZATION HAS TAKEN A STRONG STAND AGAINST THE DOH ACTION. TELL US ABOUT IT. >> I THINK IT IS WORTH JUST MENTIONING QUICKLY LIKE WHAT THE SUBPOENA IS. A PRIVATE ESTATE CONTRACTED A PRIVATE LAW FIRM AND DELIVERED THE SUBPOENA TO JOEY PETERS

SAYING, YOU HAVE TO TURN OVER ALL YOUR COMMUNICATION, ALL YOUR NOTES, YOU'RE COMMANDED TO TURN OVER ALL YOUR NOTES AND ALL YOUR COMMUNICATIONS OR YOU WILL BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND COULD BE IMPRISONED OR FINED. ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. >> IS THIS PROTECTED UNDER THE LAW. THERE IS PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW, WHY DO THIS? HE DOES NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. WHY WOULD THE ADMINISTRATION DEMAND THIS? >> IN NEW MEXICO WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED REPORTERS PRIVILEGE OR A SHIELD LAW, SO, THE PERSON WHO RECEIVES THE SUBPOENA CAN GO IN AND CONTEST THE SUBPOENA AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I AM COMPLETELY SHIELDED. THE THING IS THE SHIELD LAW HAS LIKE A BUNCH OF EXCEPTIONS TO IT AND THE EXCEPTIONS ARE THINGS LIKE, THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE CASE, YOU KNOW. SO, BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, JUDGES DECIDE HOW BADLY DOES

THE PERSON WITH THE SUBPOENA NEED THE INFORMATION AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY OTHER WAY TO DO IT. >> INTERESTING. HOLD YOU GUYS THERE. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE. GOOD SUBJECTS TONIGHT, BUT YOU CAN CATCH MORE ON THE CLOCK ON THE WEB. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR TIME. SIT TIGHT. WE JUST RAN LONG. >> AS ALWAYS, ALL OF US HERE AT "NEW MEXICO INFOCUS" APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORTS TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. CATCH UP WITH ANY TIME IN SOCIAL MEDIA BY SEARCH NEWMEXICOINFOCUS AND FIND ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS AND GREAT BONUS MATERIALS FROM THE SHOWS ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AND AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG. I AM GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK INFOCUS.