¡Colores!; Dolores Lewis Garcia (Daughter of Lucy Lewis), Interview

remember most about your mom. My mom, she was a great mother. She raised nine of us. And we were all the ones that are gone. They were lucky to see their mom what she accomplished. And the rest of us, we feel the same way. And two of our families, the oldest grandchildren, were lucky enough to see their grandmother accomplished something during her lifetime. And then the younger ones don't remember their grandmother. But they do ask if she was really a great father and a great grandmother. Yes, she was. Yes, she was. She was a neat mother, grandmother. And she never presents about giving her a father a way to people that will appreciate her work.

She gives her a father a way for willingly, yes. And it not happened to be that way, too, because I don't resent giving up my father, especially when we have our ceremonies, you know, going on. I'm willingly to give up my father. And I don't resent not doing it, because that's what I learned from my mother. That's how much I remember about my mother, yes. And why does that matter to be able to? Why does that matter to you to see that she was able to give it away? I guess just for the love of people that she knew that. And somebody that really, I would say, that cared about her, who she was, and all that. I think that's one of the reasons why she was like that, yes.

Doesn't resentful about her work and all that, yes. So one of the reasons that I really wanted to be able to talk with you for this, is you talked about there being heritage in following some of the old styles and some of the older ways of doing the pottery. And so it seems like, well, let me go back a minute. Did you enjoy watching her? Yes, I did. We all did. What did you do? Could you say, could you give it context? Because my question won't be in it. So could you say that you watched her or could you give context to the, like, do you know what I mean? We watched her, yes. We watched her.

And then I'm the only one out of my siblings. I ended up looking after her. And for some reason, she always relied on me to take her places. And because my mother didn't speak English. So she had to have me. And my other sister, her name was Emma. She and I, we took care of our mother, because she'll be talking to a person that's asking my mother some questions. And then I'll be the one to interpret what the person wants to know about her. So that's how we were. We are. Well, like, so, but I mean, like, with pottery, like, because we're really just talking about the pottery in that tradition. And what's important to you and Akuma about her pottery, you know, so did you enjoy watching her?

Did you learn from her? We, I mean, we all enjoyed that, yes. Because we would watch her make pottery. And that's how she also inspired me to do my work, yes. Just by watching her. Just by watching her, like I said earlier. And then I finally had to do it on my own. And she was still doing her own. But we would take her to where she wants to, you know, sell her work or do a show. We would take her, yes. So when you're, when you are one-make pottery, was there a time that really stands out to you, like, something that you saw her do that made you? I always wish I could do the way she makes her pottery. Because she just made it as she went along. You know, to me, it was easy. And she would just look at us.

And she was wild. And she'll, you know, continue doing it. And there's just so much, so many things that I could say about my mother, how she did her pottery. She was an amazing pottery. She didn't go to school. Nobody taught her. She taught herself, so that's one thing that I would admire her or remember her for it. Was there something about her designs that touched you and kind of in the shapes? Oh, ideas. Like I said, there's just so many designs that she did. And there was none that was her favorite, because she wanted to do what, you know, what her ends in the past have done, you know, so. There's no particular design that she favored, but she did what she could. But is there something that you learned from watching? When she outlines her work, she just

went like she was carrying one of those fancy brushes and all that she used, a Yaka brush, she used. And she always stuck with the Yaka brush. She never used a commercial brush at all. And so you saw that and decided that was the idea? I used a Yaka brush, yes, because when you outline it, it works better. It works better. And then for some reason, the Yaka brush somehow gives you that nice fine line, because it just sticks to the powder and it just glides along. Do you need a drink of water or anything? What do you need a drink of water? No, I'm OK. You're trying to achieve her work. Oh, go ahead, I'm sorry. What do you think she was trying to achieve with her work? You know, that's a hard question for me to answer.

I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. Yeah, it had to come from her. If she was still here, she might have told you what you, what was her plan to achieve. I can't answer that for her, yeah. Why? It's not that she was looking for fame or whatever, but it didn't face her that she was a noted potter. We try to explain to her, but it just never dawned on her to that she was a noted potter. Do you think she just really loved to do it? Who knew her pottery? Oh, yes, she just liked to do her potter. I know she'd like to handle the place a lot. And I always like to watch her when she wedges her claim with her feet.

And I still do that to be. You know, like, do you think she was up against anything? Like, she had such a, she brought so much to pottery because she kind of brought it back almost, or she had, she was so interested in making it. It seems that she, that love for making it, it's kind of, that seems to be what drove her, but was she up against anything? Was there anything that prevented her from doing what she loved? To me, I think that she had a talent to do that. She wanted to do it. So she did what she did, well, just making her pottery. That's how I would look at her, look at her, yes. Is there a similar place that was unique? A unique, when she's doing her pottery or what?

Yeah, or, you know, even just thinking out bigger into the, you know, the community, too. Like, is there, you know, is there something unique about the time period that she was, like, really working in? OK, the unique part of, well, that be, when we have our summer doings, that's in August. That's when she'll get into making quite a bit of pottery because we donate, her, we donate our work, or she donated her work to the people that, you know, are part of whatever is going to go on during the summer that's that religious point. So she gets into, she did get into doing quite a bit of pottery. Even today, some of us are still up to doing that, making quite a bit of pottery. So, you know, that's part of donating our work to the community, or whoever is going to be part of it, yes. Is there, so, in a certain time of year,

is it, I guess I'm trying to ask it there, like, you were saying, like, there's a, you know, like, you used to sit along the road. Oh, oh, Route 66? Yeah, and, like, so, it seems like that time was different. Or there's something kind of unique about that time. Could you talk about what that was like? Well, it was the fun part, because she already had for pottery's fired, and all we had to do, or she'll tell us, you think your girls can go sit at a jet and set up and try to sell pottery. She said, yeah, we go out there to sit along on Route 66 and try to, you know, sell pottery for her. That was before I learned how to make my own, we would sell it for her yet. So, is there something about that time? Oh, just being there at all Route 66, you know,

kind of sell pottery, because that was one thing that the women at home did, you know, try to make money by sitting after Route 66. And that was the fun part, because, so, we met, or she met all kinds of people that, you know, came through West and East going. And when I was growing up, I noticed the changes about automobiles, but then there were little black cars, marotes, I guess that's what they used to call them. And I remember being warned, not to be too friendly with the gypsies, because there were gypsies that used to come to Route 66, yeah. Uh-huh. When we were younger, when we were going up, this is what we saw, what my mother saw yet. And of course, there were other people

that came through with much fancy cars, you know, and all that, and some would stop and say hello, and they would, you know, look at the pottery, and then they go on. And one funny thing about sitting out there as a youngster was we used to ask people if they had to any magazines that we could have, so we can read them. You know, old magazines, no? No, they're more than willing, at that time, we're willing to give it to us. Or along the way to, they'll give us box of chocolates, you know, there was fun part to remember about sitting out there on Route 66, yeah. Did it change? Well, like I said, a freeway has come through, and we don't sit out there anymore. So that's one thing that's been taken away, you know, of how I remember, how we remember about Route 66. That was the fun part, me seeing different people

come through, coming both ways. Did your mom like to talk to people about her work? Like I said, she hardly spoke English, so we just had to interpret for her is what, where these people are going, and where they're coming from, and all that, yeah. But she was interested. She was, yes, they liked her pottery, and she made not only one style, she used to make a little pottery baskets, and ash trays, little vases. That's what she used to sell out on Route 66. So like, you know, so I think that she, she started, excuse me, do you need anything? I think I have some water. Well, I'll tell you that I'm pretty sure my mother has seen some of this work, because that then pottery was mainly made at the Old Pueblo,

before everybody moved down to like Makartis, Akomira, and those little settled villages. Well, she saw all some of these pots up there, from the women made pottery, and you know one mistake I made was, I never did ask her who this women were that made nice pots, like what we're seeing right here. I think she would have told me who they were, and then, gradually some of these potters were gone, and then the others were coming up. They did the same style of pottery, and I barely remember some of them, but now these other potters are gone, and then along my mom and the others are not around anymore. But when she was making the stuff, like some of her stuff is here. When she was making that stuff, did she know that she was making it for anybody in particular, or like how did the, I guess what I'm trying to ask

was like the, you said that they were just smaller pieces, that she would sell on Route 66, and so these bigger pieces, like what are they for? Oh, those were for people that collect pottery, and where she got started about selling her best pieces was during Gallop intertribal ceremonia that's back in the early 50s. That's where also where she got her name noted. That's where the collectors finally noticed that she had nice quality pottery, that people were collecting, and then that's where she met some of the artists that just like Maria, Maria Markiness, that's where she met, they kind of went, you know, became friends slowly and all that, yeah.

That's where her recognition began, and then she started coming up to Santa Fe for the Indian market, that's where a lot of collectors had come around and what, you know, her work, and so I'm sure some of them still have them, maybe the children have them, I don't know. And then once in a while, someone will return her piece back to our family, so I have, it was a couple of them in my collection of her mom that were bought by, you know, former collectors, yes. Did that mean something to her when people would buy her pot, or collect her pot? Did it for her? Oh, yes, I thought that made her happy that somebody recognized her as a great potter, you know, and that somebody was beginning to know who she was,

but she really didn't give herself an elaborate in not having her big write-up in magazines or newspapers and all, but it was her idea that she met nice people that wanted to collect her work, maybe that fame was coming to her, I don't know, but she just did not understand what fame was. But she just went with appreciating. Yes, uh-huh. Yeah. What do you think is important for people to know about her work? Even today, or before? Well, you know, like I was saying before, you know, you're interested in the tradition of the pottery staying alive, you know? And so, to other people in Akima,

even, like what would you say to share with them, like what is important about the work and what Lucy made? I'll tell you one word from my people at home is resentful. Why didn't it? Because she was about the only one that left a reservation to go show her work to the public. She wasn't afraid to go out and show her work that there's still an Akima pottery that's being made by hand. So, don't put that word in there. I won't, but she wasn't resentful, but nobody's resentful. People resent her. You won't, you won't understand how we went through with my people. There was really, really a resentful. Even today, I still can feel it. And then the children, grandchildren are resented too,

because their grandmother was one of the noted potters. But, you know, so you don't want me to really use that and we don't want to be negative, you know? So, like, if there's something that you would want to share that people do love about pottery, or what your mom brought to it, like more of it, like that side, because there's something in the tradition and the importance of the work that you probably would want to share. You know that's really hard for me to explain to my Akima people. Can you put down a little bit? Yeah, okay. But that's really, really hard to explain to my people at home. And I don't know. I just cannot make them understand that this tradition of pottery makers has to exist. But why, why does it have to? Why it has to exist? Because it's been handed down for so many generations,

Gali, and how many archaeologists, anthropologists want to write about pottery and all that. So, this has to leave on as far as anyone at home was willing to make pottery. You know, I'll tell you, it has changed. I'm sure that you've come across greenware, sleepable pottery. Oh, gosh, that's really not good. So is there a value to making it the old way? I'll tell you one thing. Right now, there's really no value in traditional pottery anymore. It's mainly for greenware, because it's perfect, and it's shaped nice, and the rims, and they sit straight. But what do you think is beautiful about tradition? How it's made, it's all handmade.

Everything is made from mother earth. That's one valuable thing that I like about eco-mapottery, because I've never handled greenware at all. So, with that handmade quality, and with that, there's something that's really, and I don't mean maybe valuable by money or anything, but what is it about that that is important to you? Pottery and pottery. Could you sit back again? Pottery and kind of look down a little and say, thank you. Well, it's within me now that I can do the pottery making. Look, I said, I didn't have to go to school, but I'm going to have to bike late. I have everything there before me. My elements are all there. My designs, I can come here and pop up one of these and put it on my newer pots. So that's something that's within me right now already, so I cannot say that I'm not happy or happy about it,

but I am really happy about what I do, and I am very happy that I'm able to do this pottery. Well, it's all handmade. Look at my hands, they're crooked now, but I'm still able to make it. And I just feel like real true art is all the way made from nothing, you know? And so there's something really special about that. I think if there's something about that, that it feels so important to try to share somehow and inspire other people to appreciate. Oh, I, let me see how can I answer that one. Can you repeat that again? Yeah, like that, there's an appreciation, I think, of something that is completely made from nothing,

and it's of you. That's like true art. And so, and you think that's really important, and so I just, I just wonder if there's a way to inspire, like what's inspiring about that to you? Inspire, I'll inspire, it's just how it's made. What it's all put into plays there, colors, y'all come brush grows out in the southwest, I don't have to buy me a brush or it's there, everything is there. That's what's really, it's in me that I can do this. I can, I have all this, you know, and that's what's really important to me. I'm really, really happy that I was able to learn to do this. And people that have collected my work,

they appreciate that, you know, they mean, they may not be big ones, or, but they admire me that I was able to continue doing what my mother did. Even with our children, with our children, yeah. They have one or two, their grandmother made, they have it in their collection, yeah. Sometimes I want to go sales, and you better not, that's because I know where my pottery is, they would tell me, yeah. Yeah, my grandchildren had that greatness in them to about how pottery is made, and how that their grandmother was a great potter that she let us that legacy for us to carry on. You know, it's in us, to my family. And I don't know how to, how I can inspire the echo my people,

they have their own team, you know, they have to work their way up like I, how I did start from scratch, to not run to a greenware shop or whatever and get, no, no, no, you have to sit there and start forming your pieces. And when I make my pieces, they're all not the same size. And I do variety, I don't just make one kind. Right, and your mom was like that too. My mother was like that too, yes. People that can't afford our work, mine might not go into thousands, but at least I do some, make something, you know, that will, I don't appreciate what people buy from me, you know, I can't tell them, you know, I don't barter with them, no, I just, you know, if they really appreciate them. I have some that have been returned back to me, yes. And my kids have already grabbed them, you know, from me, oh, mom, I went, boy, hey, hey, hey. Well, so what would you say,

your mom's contributions to Pueblo life were? Contribution to echo mode, if my people would really understand that she held on this pattern making for them, that it's still a life today. It's still a life today. So I think that's what her contribution was. And she kind of learned from watching too, like so there was generations before her that were like keeping, I mean, do you think, do you think that it changed like that people made the stuff more for utilitarian before her, or do you think that? We still have utilitarian pieces that we use today. And then there are some that are, you know,

are bought by the collectors. The ones that we use as utilitarian pieces, we have to use them to put water in. Even at home, we still use water in our pottery jars, yes. There's an important thing that's coming up, but I'm not going to review how these potries are used. We still use them today. Even for burials, burials that's really important that we send our people back with our pottery. You don't know, you don't want your people to not have any water to carry. So I have to tell you, I have a friend, he's a doctor in elder cookie, and he said he was born in the potty. He's got it all over his head. He's proud of it.

He's really proud of it. You should see my children's collection, they have water paintings, even my great, my other grandchildren. They have their paintings and their rooms, and on one other pottery pieces that we've collected, they have to seem like when you walk easy, like you have a museum, but that's their collection. Oh, handmade stuff, yes. And it's something that people before them touch. Mm-hmm. With their hands. Oh, there's just so much. And then there are some people that don't appreciate that from a pottery. But why do you appreciate it? Why? Why, what did your mom teach you about it for things? What my mother taught me to appreciate a pottery making that she tells me that, you know, it's hard work. You sit there, when you start painting, you strain your eyes, so value your work.

Don't just say that you want to give it away, give it away willingly, she used to tell them, especially the ones that are staying at Echema for a whole year, the religious leaders, give something to them, because they're gonna be there to take care of it, without you knowing this is what. Give them pottery, it doesn't have to be a big one. They'll appreciate what you give them. That's how I am today. If you make it really fine, then it's more of your heart. Yes. Even Brian here knows how did it take your mom to paint like a really intricate pot? You'll take care about maybe a couple of days. If she's gonna do like a line work, you'll take care about a couple of days. And then to paint it. And like I said, you don't complete the whole pot

in one day, you have to take your time doing the line works and all that. And then for the ones that have a color in it, like that orange, that also takes time. So you have to take your time applying that yellow and then you have to buff it before it's student. So it's time come zoom in for her to what she did. It seems like there's something really unique about some of the Akama work that's really fine. Lots of like fun. Where did that come from? I don't know. But I know where the fine line design came from when my mother started doing, came from an Opa chart. I read that that she found shards or that somebody out hunting would bring one back. Even what I had earlier, you saw them. I can get in or take some of that design and I can put it on my pottery.

I did a water continue with O pottery chart designs. I gave it to one of my men folks at home for what he did for a year for us. I'm sure he has it at his side. I'm going to ask him if he still has it. Oh, there's our son that, well, I'll have the pottery. Even some of mine, you know. How do they get hold of them? I have no idea. And you know where I will find them? Is it a poncho? I even bought one back last year. Oh, I was upset. So I have a question for you. What is Lucy's influence on traditional pottery, the traditional kind? Did she have an influence on others? What about influence?

Sir, I know I, because when people watch, they probably were like, oh, there's something that she does. It's different. People, not there are many, echo my people saw her painting, not because, you know, but they saw her finished pots. They did, yes, but I don't know how to answer that question. Okay. My mother would have been the one to tell me how to, you know, tell you that, yes. Right. Yeah, because, yeah, it's hard to speak for somebody else. But like, do you see anything? I wish I could paint the way she did, but I can't. What about it? Do you wish about, what do you like about it? What I like about her pottery, I wish I could make the way she formed her pottery. What about the painting? Do you like the, what about the painting style? The painting. Well, I wish I, I wish I did paint like her. But why?

What about it makes you like? Because I can't paint the way she did, because hers were, I don't know more, I guess I will use like more, more like a professional, professional like design, but not me. I can't paint like, I can't paint like my mother did. Mine is totally different. Well, that's natural. Well, I look even at her lines. They're not like perfect, perfect. I mean, they're perfect. Mine aren't two either. I was calling my freeways. That's funny. But I wish I did paint the way she did, but I can't, I can't master how she did it. It was her that did her, you know, painting and all that. Did it have meaning to her? I'm sure it did, yes. There's so many meanings on pottery, but I don't know how else to answer it. Is there anything about those designs

that have meaning for you that you could say matter? One pattern that I like to do on my water can change is thunderbird, thunderbird goes, the bird goes this way if the other one goes the other way. I'll tell you if there's, I don't know how many, how many thunderbird designs there is. I have not painted all of them. I don't think I'll ever paint all of them. That's what I like to do, thunderbird, especially on water canteens. What did your mom like to do? She liked to do that, a lightning pattern. She liked to do the one that has that like spikes and goes like this. That's what she did. She did a lot of polychrome too.

That's quite background black and orange that's what we call polychrome color, yes. The deer, was that her idea deer with the heart? Oh, she got that inspired by looking at a zoonie pot one time. What was it? Zoonie pot, you know, the zoonie pot bloke? Yeah, what did she see? They had the heart-lined deer on it. So she got inspired on that. So she didn't really exactly did the way the zoonie heart line was. She did it on her own, her own style version, I said. That's how she got her heart-lined deer on her pot. And I'm still keeping that heart-lined deer on my work, but mine are totally different from her, her designs, yeah. Yeah? Is there something about her that we should for posterity and for akima, traditional pottery?

Oh, let me see, I wish people, oh, I don't know. Like if you could say something that somebody a hundred years knit from now would hear about your mom's work or about akima pottery, what would you like to share? I'm sure, maybe the younger ones will come here and see some of her pieces are here. Is there something? I'm sure maybe the uncles or the mothers won't remember my mother and then they'll tell to their children, yeah, this lady was a nice potter too, that's why her works are here, as well as the others. I think that's how I think I will look at it, yeah. I keep telling my children, you should come up to this czar and go through the archives to see all the pots that aren't there.

Well, if it's like, so maybe something about the pot and making itself, like if you could say something about why it's important to somebody a hundred years from now, what would you say is important about it? For them? I would say maybe this person was, oh, I wish I couldn't make pottery like her. I wish I was alive when she was making her pottery, but this is what this person might think, I don't know. Right, but what would you say now that you would like them to hear about my mother? The only thing I would say is I wish I was around to see who she was, who Lucy Lewis was really was. Do people tell you stories? Do people tell you stories about who she was? Maybe somebody will, I don't know. Were you young, how long did you know her?

Were you too young to know who she was? My mother? Yeah. I was about, I really remember my mother real well. I didn't make pottery making until I was about maybe 11 or 12 years old. And like I said, I had, I watched her, I watched her because she made pottery all the time and plus she liked to do her guarding work. She did her crocheting, canning and all that and then she'll go back to pottery making again. That's where I got inspired by just watching her and I want to do it too. So I did it on my own, I'm still doing it today. So do you want to get the really wide shot? So I guess like, if there's something,

what should people remember about your mom? I wish, people remember her that she was a great potter. I wish they would say that all she was a great potter, like the, our ancestors in the past. I think I would like to hear that yes. Could you say that again? What did you mean? I wish people would remember her that she was a great potter and she made pottery like our ancestors did in the past, you know. I think I would like to hear that yes. Maybe somebody will say something nice about me too, something. What would you say about her that you want people to know about my mother?

My mom, I wish she was here to answer that question for me. To me she was a, she was a great mother. I loved her, I took care of her. She left me this legacy to carry on, but she didn't finish doing it. So I'm continuing doing it, you know. So hopefully the younger ones or the other potters, well, thank you for saying this, you know. There's other potters out there. They can become noted potters if they would just stick to it, not rely on the green work, that's one thing that I, but there are some that make pottery, traditional pottery,

but they have to have their green right there. But not me, I just stick to what I do. Yes. Is your mom ever seen green with greenware? Well, she noticed the changes, she wanted to know why finally had to tell her that it's much easier for them to paint, and it's already made for them. So they don't have to sit long hours like how you do when you make your part, it's much easier for them to buy that and paint them, and that's what she saw the changes. And she told us, you know, don't ever touch that. Don't ever touch that, don't ever paint those. You know why she said why? You're not, you're not going to be a potter if you paint somebody else that made the pottery for you

that's the clay is already machine made and all that. You're not going to be a pot, do it with your hands. That's why you have two good hands to be. So I don't paint greenware. Just how long does it take the clay to the consistency that you made? Well, I have to sit on the floor upon my potcharts, so I'll have to take maybe two hours to sit on the floor and to grind my potcharts or even my clay, because I have to do cooking and I'm one other thing, so I have to put that aside. And then I go back to, again, when I'm done with my cooking or feeding my family, I go back and start again and continue, you know, it takes time to do all it. It doesn't come easy. It's really, really time comes to me. But I enjoy doing it. I enjoy my pottery.

Is it feel rewarding? Oh, yes, it's worked for me, yes. Well, I feel like we could probably stop. Is there anything that you wish you said about your mom? Because this piece is kind of, it's to commemorate her word and about what she made and the contributions that she left for people to remember. Oh, to remember, oh, I love my mother. Mom, I'm always so important to love you. If you're not here, you're still with us. You be one for her. I won't be talking about her today. She was a great potter. She was a great potter for people that recognized her. You know, that she was a great potter in her own right. And how I always remembered that.

And there's people that know, they know she's a great potter. Some of the people that collected her word during Indian market here, then they're gone. And the one that I always think about is Rick dealing him. Come on, Dick help us, I would tell him. I mean, have a newspaper clipping of Rick dealing him. He was noted for his cracked pots. On the front cover, his picture, his face was all cracked. It was representing his pottery. I have that picture. He's creative. He was one good man that helped the women potters with their work, yes. And I have not come across anybody that has done anything like that for any of us. Yeah.

Do you like it when people come out to visit? Yes, they have to come and see me what I do. Because I can't come to them. They have to come to me. They have to see who I am if I really do what I'm doing today. Even back then, when Rick was in doubt about my mom's painting, he used to tell us that I think you girls are doing the painting for your mother. I said, no, no, you have to come out. So one day, he did come out while my mother was painting. Sure enough, he believed her. I had to tell my mother here, your buyer right here doesn't believe you that you still can paint. And so he goes like this to him. She went like this to him. I still do. That's what she told him. Yeah. I missed that gentleman.

He did a lot for our poor women potters, yeah. Seems like your mom had it. I'm sure. Yes, she has. Well, she seems to just not quit, not give up and not. No. As long as I'm around, I'm not going to give up my pottery making. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me here today. And I'm sure whoever sees this well, hopefully that they're appreciated that there was someone out there that did a traditional pottery. I'm sure people will find me, hopefully, somebody will, that will make me famous. No. You know, one time when Maria and my mother made friends, Maria had given my mother one of her gourds, it was shaped like a

moon. Maria said, here Lucy, you can use it. And my mother just, you know, nodded her head, which is how you go. So one time when my mother was still there, she was going through her box of her tools and she took up that piece of a gourd and said, here you can have this one. As a member, Maria gave this to me, oh, yeah, I remember her giving it to you, mom, I told her. And here you can have maybe someday you'll become famous like her. And I said, oh, thank you, hopefully. I have that gourd in my possession. It's very valuable what to me. I'm never going to part with it. Yeah. I have Barbara Gonzalez hears this. Yeah. Yeah, we're pretty well acquainted with Barbara II, Barbara Gonzalez, yes. Barbara Gonzalez and her son, Kevin, he's a nice, nice person to you.

I think we're all close, maybe Barbara might not think this, but we are all close. The ones that have been coming to market all these many years. Yeah. Well, making handmade pottery, not very many people to do. So, I'm sure there was some kind of recognition and just respect out of just knowing what, because only by doing it can you really understand. Because I mean, I just imagine sitting there like grinding the clay to the consistency that you need. It hurts your wrists, you know, and then you kind of have to take a break from pounding your pot of drugs, yeah. And then sometimes I help out some pebble members at home that they come and ask, do you need a grinded pot shards? And then they would tell me, since you're about the only one that still use the grinded

pot shards. So, wow, how much do you want for it? And they'll give me a bar. I'll buy that from there. You know, to help them, same way with clay, sometimes they bring it in a raw stage or already grinded it down. Yeah, they come and ask me, you still make traditional pottery, would you like to buy it? I'll buy some, yeah. So that saves me time going up to the clay mine to get it, you know, so it's really a dangerous place to get it, because it's waiting in the cave like, yeah. I know it's a big vein, but still there, don't pull it out, the new generation will get back to it. They need to. I know, I wish we could all slow down. Really?

We all need to. That's where I like to stay at Atcomacose, it's peace and quiet up there. It's peace and quiet. Did your mom like it at Atcomacose? Oh yeah. Even my late sister Emma and I used to stay up there, but now that she was my companion, seemed like she took care of me when I was, you know, smaller. She grew up together, we used to come to a market too, and she and I used to stay up there to make pottery. Oh God, we would tell our children, we're going to move to Atcomacose, we're going to make pottery up there. We'll come up and see, and then we would tell not to eat, because we're not going to cook for nobody. How did your mom live? Oh, yes, she was born up there. She was born up there, she was raised up there at Atcomacose, Opoldbluff, Atcomacose, that's where she was born, and her house is still standing. It starts to bat, it's just a little building, it's still there, sometimes I wish I could

get it back. Well, it's a wonderful place to live, it's quiet, and she ever talked about what she liked about it? About Atcomacose? She partly sat much, but mainly she did her pottery, and we watched her, and we all lived in that one, we still lived in that one house, but when something goes on, we all get together, and when activities are over, everybody leaves, and then we lock up a house, and move back down to McCarty's or Atcomacose. So when you're up on Atcomacose, what do you think is beautiful? What is beautiful about it, to you? There's no freeways, no trains, no high-rise, it's just out in a remote area, and I like about Atcomacose, if the weather is nice during the summer, if you happen to get up early

before the sun comes, when the sun starts coming up, you see, oh, those are our formations start appearing, they come out, as the sun comes out. And then towards the evening, summertime, when you look out west, sunset, you see that pretty brilliant red. We know tomorrow is going to be nice, sure enough, following day, it's nice. That's how I look at Atcomacose. I always say, there's no place like Atcomac, anywhere else in the world, even sometimes I ask the tourists, well, how do you like Atcomac? There's no place like this anywhere, they'll tell me. I'm sure. Well, so, I guess that's pretty good, you know, I guess, okay, one more question, so just about her work, just about her pottery, what do you love about her pottery?

What I love about her pottery, how it's formed, how it's designed, how it's made, and she put all her energy and her heart into it, that's what I say about my mom's work, like I said, I can't paint like she did. I couldn't make the way she made. Her art is totally different, even though I used the same elements and all that, but hers is totally different from mine. She's a very fine potter, but very special, okay, well, thank you very much, you're like you off of the hook, okay, thank you. This is 30 seconds of room time. Sai, Sai, Sai, Sai.