New Mexico in Focus; 713; Water Ethic and Our Time Is Now

>> PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO INFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS THE STATE'S ECONOMY SHOWS WEAK GROWTH AS MORE FEDERAL CUTS LOOM. >> THERE IS A REAL SENSE OF PANIC AROUND NEW MEXICO AND I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THERE IS PEOPLE ARE DOING HIGH 5'S IN ALBUQUERQUE, EITHER. >> PLUS WE CONTINUE OUR SERIES ON WATER IN NEW MEXICO, WITH TWO EXPERTS ON FRESH WATER AND RIVER BASINS. NEW MEXICO INFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> THIS WEEK WE TALK WITH TWO OUR RELATIONSHIP TO IT AND WHY IT NEEDS TO CHANGE. SANDRA POSTEL, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC FRESH WATER FELLOW AND AUTHOR. BETH BARDWELL IS DIRECTOR OF FRESH WATER CONSERVATION WITH AUTOBAHN NEW MEXICO. AMONG THE INITIATIVES THEY HAVE WORKED WAS AN UNUSUAL AGREEMENT THAT ALLOWS FARMERS IN THE LOWER RIO GRANDE TO SELL WATER RIGHTS TO GROW VEGETATION, NOT CHILI OR PECANS, BUT COTTONWOODS AND OTHER RIVERSIDE TREES AND PLANTS;

AN IDEA THAT IS CATCHING ON AROUND THE WEST, BUT IS NEW MEXICO READY TO CURTAIL AGRICULTURAL IRRIGATION, THE LARGEST USER OF WATER. AND I SIT DOWN WITH TWO STUDENTS AND THE FILMMAKER THAT FOLLOWED THEM AND OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE IN RURAL NEW MEXICO AS THEY WORK TO FINISH HIGH SCHOOL AGAINST NUMEROUS ODDS. >>FEATURED ON AMERICAN GRADUATE DAY BROADCAST ON SEPTEMBER 28 ON NEW MEXICO PBS. THE LINE OPINION PANEL LOOKS AT THE CONTROVERSY OVER EDUCATION INITIATIVES DESIGNED TO PROMOTE GREATER ACCOUNTABILITY THAT INCLUDES A $5,000 BONUS PROGRAM FOR TEACHERS WHO MOVE TO LOW PERFORMING SCHOOLS AND A TEACHER EVALUATION PROGRAM THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF A LAWSUIT. BUT, FIRST THE PANEL DIVES INTO THE STATE'S ECONOMY AND PERSISTENT POVERTY. A NEW REPORT FROM THE BUREAU OF BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC RESEARCH SHOWS ANEMIC GROWTH IS HAPPENING IN NEW MEXICO'S EMERGENCE FROM RECESSION. MEANWHILE LOOMING CUTS FROM THE FEDERAL SEQUESTER COULD HAVE SERIOUS IMPACT WITH SO MANY JOBS IN THE STATE FEDERAL SPENDING AND THERE IS A PUSH IN CONGRESS TO CUT THE FOOD STAMP PROGRAMMING THAT THOUSANDS OF NEW MEXICANS

DEPEND ON. AGAINST THIS BACKDROP AN ADVOCACY GROUP RELEASED ITS PLAN FOR ADDRESSING NEW MEXICO'S LAST PLACE RANKING FOR CHILD WELL BEING. SUGGESTIONS INCLUDE RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE AND INCREASING EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT. AND IN THE LATEST WRINKLE, AN EMAIL FROM SECRETARY OF HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT QUESTIONED WHETHER THERE IS REAL HUNGER IN THE STATE. HERE IS THE LINE. >> SECRETARY SIDONIE SQUIER HAS PROMPTED MUCH CONTROVERSY OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS AFTER HER HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT FROZE MEDICAID FUNDING TO BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROVIDERS AMID CHARGES OF FRAUD. NOW EMAIL SHE SENT TO MEMBERS OF THE STATE HUNGER TASKFORCE AND OBTAINED BY KOAT CHANNEL 7, HAS SET OFF CALLS FOR HER RESIGNATION. THAT IS THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AND IS NOT NOW ANY SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE OF HUNGER IN NEW MEXICO. THIS COMES ON THE HEELS OF A STUDY THAT INDICATED THE STATE HAS THE HIGHEST RATE OF CHILD HUNGER IN THE COUNTRY. HOW IS THE STATE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS KIND OF POVERTY, AS IT STRUGGLES TO GET OUT OF THE ECONOMIC DOLDRUMS. JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS

IS A LINE REGULAR, LAURA SANCHEZ, A LITTLE BIT UNDER THE WEATHER. THAT IS OKAY. SHE IS HERE. SHE IS CEO OF THE NEW MEXICO GREEN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. SHOW MUST GO ON. ANOTHER REGULAR ROB NIKOLEWSKI, THE NEW MEXICO WATCHDOG IS BACK WITH US. TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP IS HERE, ANOTHER LINE STALWORTH. AND A NEW FACE AT THE TABLE, JERI CLAUSING, OF THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. JERI, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? I LOVE IT. >> LET ME START WITH YOU. ON THIS SUBJECT. MS. SQUIER HAD COME THROUGH A NUMBER OF TASKFORCE MEETINGS. I HAVE SOME INFORMATION FROM ONE OF THOSE MEMBERS. I WILL NOT SAY WHO, THAT DESCRIBES SOME OF THE TONE AND TENOR OF MS. SQUIER DURING THE COURSE OF THOSE MEETINGS. LET'S START WITH WHAT WE KNOW. SHE FEELS IT WAS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE, JUST NOT TERRIBLY WELL WORDED. WHAT WAS YOUR SENSE WHEN YOU FIRST READ THAT? >> IT IS PRETTY HARD TO TAKE IT AS A SLIP PRETTY CLEAR AND THIS IS ALL I KNOW. I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO ANY OF THE OTHERS THAT YOU HAVE, BUT IT IS HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT THERE THAT WAS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE. IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR. >> WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT? SEEMED

LIKE WITHIN A DAY, IF NOT JUST A LITTLE BIT LONGER, OUR GOVERNOR WAS NOT EXACTLY RUNNING TO HER DEFENSE, WAS SHE? OUR GOVERNOR WAS QUICK TO PEEL IT BACK AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THERE IS CHILDHOOD HUNGER HERE. >> I WANT THIS FOR THE REST THE GUYS. WHAT DOES THAT DYNAMIC SAY TO YOU THAT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO COME WITH ONE OF HER CABINET SECRETARIES AND OPPOSE A FEELING LIKE THAT? >> SORRY. IT IS TOUGH IT IS HARD TO ANALYZE. WE'RE GOING INTO AN ELECTION YEAR. SO, ONE WONDERS WHAT THE MOTIVATION WAS. WAS THE SECRETARY TRYING TO DOWNPLAY THE PROBLEM; THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO ADDRESS IT; DOWN PLAY THE REPORT. THE GOVERNOR OBVIOUSLY KNOWS THERE IS HUNGER IN THE STATE AND SO >> INTERESTING, ROB. HOW TO PICK UP WHERE JERI WAS AT THERE, IT COULD NOT BE MORE CLEAR THERE IS HUNGER IN THIS STATE. FOLKS ARE REALLY QUITE CONFUSED WHERE SHE WAS COMING FROM. LET ME READ ALL OF YOU AND YOU AT HOME SOMETHING I RECEIVED FROM SOMEONE WHO WAS PART OF THAT TASKFORCE AND I AM NOT GOING TO SAY WHO IT WAS, AND DON'T WALK UP AND ASK ME, I AM NOT GOING

TO TELL YOU. WE SPENT THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS IN THE TASKFORCE DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT ANY KIDS WERE HUNGRY, EVERY SINGLE MEETING, EVERY STUDY WE BROUGHT UP, SHE DEBATED THE VALIDITY. SHE ULTIMATELY CONCLUDED THAT THE ONLY KIDS WHO WEREN'T BEING FED WERE THOSE WHO WERE ALREADY IN CYFD'S CARE. IT WAS WILD. HOW DOES THAT STRIKE YOU, ROB, WHEN YOU HEARD THAT? >> I WASN'T THERE WHEN THERE IS PROBABLY NO GOOD WAY TO TRY TO SPIN THIS THING. YOU KNOW, AND TO SAY IT IS POORLY WORDED KIND OF REMINDS ME OF WHAT INTEL SAID WHEN THEY GOT RID OF ALL THE EMPLOYEES AND SAID, THEY HAVE BEEN REDEPLOYED. SO, AND I THINK AS FAR AS THE GOVERNOR GOES, I MEAN, AGAIN THERE IS NO GOOD WAY TO SPIN IT. >> WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE THE GOVERNOR? SHE HAS TO GET IN FRONT OF THIS, IT SEEMS TO ME, IF THE CABINET SECRETARY HAS THAT POSITION. >> I THINK THE CHANNEL 7 INTERVIEW, SHE PROBABLY WHICH TRIED AS BEST AS SHE COULD, AND PROBABLY WAS ABLE TO PUT AS MUCH MAKEUP AS SHE COULD

PUT ON THIS BAD SITUATION. BY SAYING, I DISAGREE WITH HER, WITHOUT COMPLETELY THROWING MS. SQUIER UNDER THE BUS. BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, SAYING, SHE DISAGREED WITH IT AND AGAIN USING THE PHRASE POORLY WORDED. I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW IN THESE KIND OF SITUATIONS, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN WHAT YOU CAN REALLY DO. REMEMBER WHEN CHERYL WILLIAMS STAPLETON HAD THE BLOW UP WITH NORA ESPINOSA, THE GOVERNOR WAS THE MEXICAN ON THE FOURTH FLOUR. ALL YOU CAN REALLY DO IN THOSE SITUATIONS IS FESS UP, SAY, I AM SORRY AND HOPE THAT IT BLOWS OVER. >> THAT IS RIGHT. LAURA, LET'S EXPAND THIS OUT. WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF THINGS IN NEWS LATELY REGARDING THE ECONOMY WHICH, OF COURSE, IMPACTS HUNGER, MONEY TO BUY FOOD AND SUCH. THE LFC REVISED THE OUTLOOKS DOWNWARDS FOR OUR ECONOMY. WE HAVE GOT A VOTE TO CUT FOOD STAMPS IN OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GOING ON AND WE HAVE A SPLIT IN OUR OWN DELEGATION ABOUT THIS. THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON POOR PEOPLE RIGHT NOW IN THIS STATE. WAS THIS WHAT ADVOCATES ARE HAVING A FIT RIGHT NOW ABOUT

MS. SQUIER'S STATEMENT HERE. SHOULD THEY BE AS CONCERNED ABOUT THIS OR IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THIS KIND OF A SITUATION ELEVATED OUT THERE FOR PEOPLES' UNDERSTANDING? >> WE SHOULD BE ME, AGAIN, I AM GETTING OVER A COLD, BUT, I THINK EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS. THE SITUATION HIGHLIGHTS HOW DISCONNECTED THE SECRETARY IS FROM THE REALITY OF WHAT WE'RE FACING AND WHAT SOME OF THE MOST VULNERABLE NEW MEXICANS ARE FACING. I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT A PERSON WHO HAS AN MA AND A BA IN COMMUNICATIONS CAN MISWORD SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AND DIRECT AS SHE PUT IN THAT EMAIL. >> DO YOU BUY WHAT I WAS READING FROM OUR ANONYMOUS TASKFORCE PERSON, DOES THIS FIT A PATTERN IN YOUR VIEW WHERE MS. SQUIER IS COMING FROM? DO YOU BUY THE PLAUSIBILITY SHE WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE THOSE POSITIONS IN THOSE TASKFORCE MEETINGS? >> BASE ON WHAT I HAVE READ, YES, AND WHAT I HEARD FROM LEGISLATORS AND WHAT THEY OBSERVED OF HER BEHAVIOR IN VARIOUS MEETINGS. I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE THE ISSUE

OF CONTENTION IS. I MEAN, I THINK EVERYBODY, THIS ISN'T A PARTISAN ISSUE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNOR, IRONICALLY ENOUGH, WAS AT A ROADRUNNER FOOD BANK EVENT WHEN THIS OCCURRED, HAD JUST ISSUED A HUNGER ACTION MONTH PROCLAMATION, MAKING SEPTEMBER HUNGER ACTION MONTH. SO, SHE CLEARLY IS OUT OF STEP, NOT JUST WITH NEW MEXICANS, BUT EVEN WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO ADDRESS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO REASON WHY YOU HAVE TO KEEP EVERY SINGLE SECRETARY, EVEN THE WEAKEST LINK, ON BOARD THE ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION. IT IS IMPORTANT TO REFLECT THE ADMINISTRATION'S GOALS AS WELL AS WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE ISSUES ON THE GROUND. AND THIS IS CLEARLY A SITUATION WHERE A LOT OF LEGISLATORS ARE CALLING FOR HER RESIGNATION. >> WE HAVE HAD ONE HIGH PROFILE ALREADY, SENATOR MICHAEL SANCHEZ HAS COME OUT AND ASKED FOR THIS. >> OUT OF PROFESSIONAL COURTESY, WE DID ASK THE SECRETARY'S DEPARTMENT FOR A RESPONSE AND WHAT I JUST READ EARLIER ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE MEETINGS AND THIS IS WHAT WE GOT MATT KENNECOTT, I AGREE THERE ARE HUNGRY CHILDREN IN NEW MEXICO. NONE OF THEM SHOULD GO WITHOUT ACCESS TO FOOD OR BE

MALNOURISHED. BY EMAIL WAS POORLY WORDED AND I SHARE GOVERNOR MARTINEZ' GOAL OF ENSURING EVERY CHILD HAS ACCESS TO HEALTHY MEALS. ANTI HUNGER MEASURES MUST TAKE NUTRITION INTO ACCOUNT TO BE TRULY EFFECTIVE AGAINST CHILD HUNGER IN OUR STATE. SIGNED BY SECRETARY SIDONIE SQUIER. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A FURTHER WALK BACK THAN WHERE SHE WAS BEFORE. I AGREE THERE ARE HUNGRY CHILDREN IN NEW MEXICO. THAT IS THE VERY FIRST LINE. SO, PERHAPS, TO BE FAIR TO THE SECRETARY HERE, IS IT JUST A PROCESS OF EDUCATION? IS SHE ON BOARD NOW. IS THIS MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING? CAN SHE JUST MOVE FORWARD FROM THIS? >> NO. THIS IS GOING TO HAUNT THIS PARTICULAR PAST CONTROVERSIES HAVE HAUNTED THIS DEPARTMENT. SOMEHOW, THIS DEPARTMENT HAS ENDED UP IN THE SPOTLIGHT OVER THE TWO MOST HIGH PROFILE EVENTS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE. YOU JUST DON'T AUTOMATICALLY SAY, OKAY, I HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED IT, LET'S MOVE ON. THAT IS A GOOD STRATEGY BUT THE MEDIA, THE PEOPLE, POLITICIANS,

THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH HER GAFF, THE SECRETARY HAS BROUGHT TO LIGHT AN ISSUE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW REALLY EXISTED. NOW THE OPPORTUNITY IS HERE, HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED, NOT JUST AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WITH THE FOOD STAMP DISCUSSION, BUT HOW IS NEW MEXICO GOING TO RESPOND HERE? >> LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY. THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE DOING BUSINESS EVERYDAY. I WANT TO ANECDOTALLY, I TALK TO MAINLY TECHNOLOGY PEOPLE. SOME ARE QUITE BULLISH RIGHT NOW ON WHERE WE ARE AND SOME ARE QUITE PANICKED. IN ALBUQUERQUE, PEOPLE FEELING MORE POSITIVE, OUTSIDE OF ALBUQUERQUE, THE DIFFICULTY. WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF WHAT YOU HEAR FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY? >> I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, AS A LOT OF FOLKS AROUND THE TABLE DO, TO TRAVEL THE STATE. THERE IS A SENSE OF PANIC AROUND NEW MEXICO AND I WOULDN'T SAY PEOPLE ARE DOING HIGH 5'S IN ALBUQUERQUE, EITHER. THERE IS A REAL HEAVY RELIANCE, PROS AND CONS,

ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WHEN YOU HAVE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAVING AS MUCH INFLUENCE OVER NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY AND ALBUQUERQUE'S ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PEOPLE LITERALLY PANICKING WHEN YOU LOOK AT A POSSIBILITY OF A FEDERAL SHUTDOWN. >> THAT IS RIGHT. I AGREE AND JERI THAT WORD PANIC, I DON'T THINK IS TOO STRONG. I TALKED TO A LOT OF FOLKS THAT USE THAT EXACT WORD. WHAT CONCERNS ME ABOUT THE MS. SQUIER STATEMENT, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, REPORTED IN THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, GOES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND STARTS GETTING REPORTED IN OTHER PUBLICATIONS ABOUT WE HAVE AN OUT OF TOUCH SECRETARY IN RELATION TO HUNGER IN NEW MEXICO. HOW DOES THIS PLAY FOR OUR STATE? DOES THIS PLAY AS IF WE ARE ON TASK, ON TOP OF IT, WE KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE? >> THAT GETS BACK TO THE BROADER ISSUE OF THE WHOLE NEW MEXICO ECONOMY, YOU KNOW. FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND THIS WHOLE ENDLESS CIRCLE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO ATTRACT NEW BUSINESS BECAUSE OF THE POVERTY AND POOR EDUCATION. AND, I THINK IT ONLY UNDERSCORES THAT AND MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT AND AFFECTS

OUR REPUTATION. >> THIS IS AN OPINION TABLE, BUT IN YOUR OPINION AND THIS IS DIFFICULT, SHOULD THE SECRETARY BE FIRED? >> I AM NOT SURE I SHOULD GIVE AN OPINION ON THAT, TO BE HONEST. >> FAIR ENOUGH. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ONE? IS THIS AN EGREGIOUS ENOUGH OFFENSE TO MAKE A CHANGE IN THE BEHAVIOR HEALTH STUFF. >> I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT, A LOT OF IT IS GOING TO DEPEND ON WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS WHEN HE COMES BACK WITH THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUE. NOW, AS I SAID BEFORE, THE PANEL AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT YOU WOULD THINK FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT, SINCE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS A DEMOCRAT AND RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AGAINST GOVERNOR MARTINEZ NEXT YEAR, HE WOULD HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE JUMPING ON THE CHORUS WITH PEOPLE SAYING, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE SHUT DOWN THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PEOPLE AT ALL, BUT HE HASN'T. JUDGING FROM WHAT HE HAS SAID AND FROM WHAT ONE OF HIS EMPLOYEES SAID AT A LEGISLATIVE MEETING

EARLIER THIS SUMMER, THEY ARE EXPECTING TO HAVE PRELIMINARY ANSWERS TO THAT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH THING PROBABLY WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO. >> INTERESTING. >> YEAH, THEY ORIGINALLY SAID LATE SEPTEMBER AND WE'RE IN LATE SEPTEMBER RIGHT NOW, SO, I THINK THAT FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT, I THINK A LOT OF THAT MIGHT HINGE ON WHAT HAPPENS THERE. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH CONTROVERSY ABOUT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES BUT THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS OTHER REPORTS, EVEN THOUGH THE REPORT ITSELF HASN'T BEEN RELEASED, THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS OF CEO'S AT SOME OF THESE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH AGENCIES TAKING PART IN SOME QUESTIONABLE ACTIVITY. >> I AM GOING TO FINISH WITH YOU LAURA, JUST A LITTLE BIT LEFT IN THIS SEGMENT, BUT WHAT IS INTERESTING, I APPRECIATE THE TIME IN SEPTEMBER, BUT IT ALSO COMES ON THE HEELS OF THE NEW MEXICO VOICES FOR CHILDREN REPORT ABOUT HUNGER IN OUR STATE THAT WAS QUITE DAMNING. I FIND THIS INTERESTING AND THEY TOUCHED ON THE MINIMUM WAGE. LET'S

TALK ABOUT THIS FOR A QUICK SECOND, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT HERE AT THE TABLE. IS THAT PART OF THE SOLUTION HERE? IS THIS ALL HANDS ON DECK, ALL THESE SOLUTIONS HAVE TO GET ON THE TABLE. >> CERTAINLY FOR ME IT IS. WE DO HAVE TO HAVE EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS, BUT ESPECIALLY WHEN FACING A FEDERAL ACTION IN THE HOUSE TO ROLL BACK 39 BILLION OUT OF THE SNAP PROGRAM, THAT COULD REALLY HURT NEW MEXICANS, THE MOST VULNERABLE POPULATION HERE. AND WITH THE SEQUESTER AND MORE CURRENTLY THE POSSIBLE SHUTDOWN, IT IS ALL GOING TO HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT AND THOSE WHO ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE WILL SUFFER. >> GOOD POINT. IN A MOMENT, WE'RE BACK WITH TWO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO OVERCAME CHALLENGES TO GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL AND THE FILMMAKER WHO TOLD THEIR STORY. >> I REMEMBER WITH GRADES, AND THE FILM, RED RUM, MY JUNIOR YEAR, ONE DAY MR. BROWN, THE DIRECTOR, PULLS ME OUT AND SAYS, WHAT IS GOING ON? WHAT IS THE DEAL? LIKE, I AM LOOKING AT YOUR GRADES,

THEY ARE GOOD. NOW YOUR GRADES ARE BAD. WHAT IS THE DEAL? GET YOUR CRAP TOGETHER. >> GRADUATION RATES AND POVERTY IN NEW MEXICO, BUT HOW OFTEN THEMSELVES? THE DOCUMENTARY, OUR TIME IS NOW SCREENED RECENTLY ON NEW MEXICO PBS AND FOLLOWED SIX TEENS IN RURAL NEW MEXICO FACING COMPLEX CHALLENGES TO COMPLETE HIGH SCHOOL. I SAT DOWN WITH THE FILMMAKER, ERIN HUDSON AND TWO STUDENTS TO HEAR ABOUT THEIR HOPES FOR THE FUTURE, THEIR STORIES WILL BE PART OF THE AMERICAN GRADUATE DAY, A SEVEN HOUR BROADCAST AIRING ON NEW MEXICO PBS SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, STARTING AT 10:00 A.M. LOOK FOR THEIR SEGMENT AT 1:00 P.M. SEGMENT OF NEW MEXICO INFOCUS TALKING WITH THE FILMMAKER AND TWO SUBJECTS OF THE DOCUMENTARY OUR TIME IS NOW ABOUT GRADUATING AND PART OF THE AMERICAN GRADUATE SERIES. ERIN HUDSON, DIRECTOR, LET ME START WITH YOU. SET SOME CONTEXT HERE. HOW DID THE PROJECT THAT ALLOWED YOU TO FOLLOW THESE GUYS

FOR THEIR LAST YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL AND BEYOND? >> IT WAS A GREAT COLLABORATION WITH GEAR UP NEW MEXICO, A PROGRAM THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND LITTLE GLOBE, WHICH IS A NONPROFIT. AND WE DECIDED TO WORK WITH JUNIORS ACROSS THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, SO JUAN AND JIMMY HERE AND FOUR OTHERS WERE A PART OF THAT PROJECT. >> STRUGGLES OF THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN THAT YOU DOCUMENTED AMAZING THE THINGS THEY HAD TO PUNCH THROUGH, WE'LL GET TO IT WITH THESE GUYS, BUT, FOR WHAT YOU, WHAT DID THAT MEAN, TO GET THAT CLOSE? >> GOSH, I MEAN, I CAME AWAY WITH THE INCREDIBLE CAPACITY FOR HUMAN SURVIVAL, FOR HUMAN EXCELLENCE AND I MEAN THESE TWO HERE ARE PART OF THAT REAL STORY. I MEAN, WE HEAR SO OFTEN THAT NEW MEXICO HAS A VERY LOW GRADUATION RATE, ONE OF THE LOWEST IN THE NATION, AND IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE FILM TO SEE, WHAT ARE THESE STORIES BEHIND THAT STATISTIC AND WHAT

ARE THE STORIES IN DEPTH AND WHAT ARE STUDENTS IN THE SCHOOLS IN NEW MEXICO EXPERIENCING AND GOING THROUGH? >> WHAT IS IT LIKE HAVING A CRITICAL PART OF YOUR LIFE DOCUMENTED? WHAT DID THAT FEEL LIKE? >> IT IS REALLY, REALLY STRANGE, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST. LIKE AFTER IN MY SCHOOL, LIKE PEOPLE WHO I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW, LIKE, HEY, JIMMY. LIKE, I DON'T KNOW YOU. HOW ARE YOU? LIKE IT IS DEFINITELY WHAT IS THE WORD I AM LOOKING FOR? DEFINITELY A EXPERIENCE, TO BE SURE. >> WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL FOR YOUR FAMILY? LOOKING BACK NOW, HOW DOES IT FEEL TO NOW BE IN SCHOOL AND SEE WHAT YOU CAME THROUGH WITH ALL THAT? >> LIKE A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT AND I WANT TO BE THE FIRST PERSON IN MY FAMILY TO GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE TOWARDS THAT. >> IF I REMEMBER THIS CORRECTLY, YOU WANTED TO TEACH SPANISH AND SOME OTHER THINGS. HAS THAT CHANGED AT ALL? IS IT THE SAME? >> IT

IS STILL THE SAME, MATH AND SPANISH HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL. >> RIGHT. WHAT DROVE THAT DECISION? I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING IN THE FILM THAT YOU WANTED TO DO THAT. >> I REMEMBER ONE DAY MY LITTLE SISTER, I HAD TO HELP HER MATH AND WHATEVER SHE GOT A GOOD GRADE, AND IT WAS A GREAT FEELING INSIDE. FROM THERE I WANTED TO BE A TEACHER AND HAVE IMPACT ON STUDENTS LIVES. >> ONE THING THAT YOU CAN LOOK BACK AND SAY THAT WAS THE ONE THING? >> I WOULD HAVE TO SAY IT WAS THE PUSHING FROM MY MOTHER TO GET GOOD GRADES AND TO MAKE IT IN MY FAMILY TO EVEN ATTEND A UNIVERSITY. >> YOU WERE QUITE OPEN AND YOUR MOM WAS OPEN ABOUT TIMES AT THAT TIME AND FOR HER PREVIOUS TO THAT, THERE WAS SOME DRUG ISSUES THAT HAPPENED SOMETIMES IN LIFE, AND THERE WERE THINGS ABOUT, YOUR DAD AND HIS ABILITY TO BE AROUND OR NOT. >> LUCKILY, SINCE THE FILM HAS COME OUT AND SINCE I GRADUATED ME AND MY DAD, LIKE WHILE THE FILM WAS BEING FILMED, WE HAD A BIT OF FALLING OUT BUT WE HAVE SINCE COME

TO TERMS. >> WONDERFUL. HOW IMPORTANT, WHEN YOU MADE THE FILM, DID YOU FIND PARENTS, MENTORS ALL THOSE KIND OF FOLKS TO BE FOR FOLKS TO GRADUATE? >> THEY ARE VITAL. ADULTS THAT ARE IN THE LIVES OF STUDENTS THAT TEACHER, YOU KNOW, ANY KIND OF ROLE MODEL. I KNOW FOR JIMMY, YOUR BAND DIRECTOR WAS VITAL IN YOUR LIFE. YOUR FILMMAKING TEACHER WAS. YOUR SOCCER COACH. THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL WAS A HUGE SUPPORTER OF YOU AT YOUR SCHOOL. SO, IT IS FINDING THOSE ADULTS THAT CONNECT WITH THE STUDENTS AND EVEN JUST ONE ADULT, WHETHER THAT IS IN THE SCHOOL ATMOSPHERE OR MAYBE IT IS THROUGH EXTRACURRICULAR. EXTRACURRICULARS WERE VERY VITAL FOR YOU BOTH, AND PASSIONS WERE VERY VITAL TO GET YOU THROUGH SCHOOL. SO, I THINK, YEAH, IT IS THAT CONNECTION. >> THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL, JUAN, AT YOUR SCHOOL, CAME ACROSS,

HE REALLY WANTED YOU TO SUCCEED. >> HE WAS INSPIRING, SOMEBODY LIKE OUTSIDE OF THE FAMILY, SOMEBODY ELSE BELIEVED THAT I COULD. >> WAS THAT COMMON OF MOST THE OTHER FOLKS THAT YOU INTERVIEWED AS WELL? >> IT WAS INTERESTING FOR ME TO BE KIND OF ON THE OUTSIDE OF THESE THE COMMUNITY THAT THE STUDENTS WERE IN AND THEN KIND OF TRYING TO NAVIGATE WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY. AND TO SEE WHAT THE SUPPORT SYSTEM WAS THERE. AND, I THINK, SO, THE TWO YOUNG WOMEN IN DEMING, VICKIE AND TIKA, WE REALLY SEE, BECAUSE VICKIE DOESN'T HAVE A PARENT ROLE, HOW VITAL, THEN, A FRIENDSHIP IS, HOW VITAL HER FRIENDS' PARENTS ARE AND EXTENDED FAMILY IN THAT WAY. SO, WE SEE THAT IN NEW MEXICO ESPECIALLY IN RURAL COMMUNITIES, EXTENDED FAMILIES PLAY A VITAL ROLE. SMALL TOWNS WHERE YOU KNOW EVERYONE,

ACTUALLY, CAN REALLY BENEFIT, YOU KNOW, YOUR EXPERIENCE FOR GETTING THROUGH. >> I BET. I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH GRADES IN THE FILM RED RUM, THE END OF MY JUNIOR YEAR, IT WAS RIGHT AFTER I GOT KICKED OUT OF MY DAD'S HOUSE. IT WAS JUST A HARD TIME AND ONE DAY AFTER BAND PRACTICE, MR. BROWN, MY DIRECTOR, PULLS ME OUT, HE IS LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON? WHAT IS THE DEAL? LIKE, I AM LOOKING AT YOUR GRADES, YOUR GRADES ARE GOOD. NOW THEY ARE BAD. WHAT IS THE DEAL. GET YOUR CRAP TOGETHER, LIKE. >> CURIOUS, NOW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL, I KNOW THIS FOR MYSELF, YOU HAVE A VASTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE ONCE YOU'RE OUT AND LOOKING BACK. IN THE MIDDLE, IT IS SO CONFUSING AND CRAZY, IT IS A MESS. I FIND MYSELF ASSESSING TEACHERS IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY ONCE YOU'RE OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL. I AM CURIOUS, LET ME START WITH YOU, WE HAVE A DEBATE IN THIS STATE GOING ON RIGHT NOW, ABOUT GRADING TEACHERS AND GRADING SCHOOLS. WE ALL HAVE TO DEAL

WITH GRADES, SOMEHOW WE HAVE TO KIND OF DO IT THAT WAY. DO YOU THINK THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR TEACHERS, TO GRADE TEACHERS AS WELL IN THEIR PERFORMANCE WITH STUDENTS. >> I THINK IT IS BECAUSE A TEACHER HAS TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE STUDENTS AND WHERE THEY WILL BE AND HOW THEY WILL BE SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE, SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. >> JIMMY WHAT DO YOU THINK, SHOULD TEACHERS BE GRADED? >> ABSOLUTELY. BUT I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CERTAIN, LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, THERE IS A CERTAIN LEVEL, YOU KNOW, CAN'T BE GRADED. IT IS NOT LIKE ABOUT WHO IS PASSING YOUR CLASS, BUT HONESTLY I HAVE NOTICED THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT TEACHERS, THAT IS LIKE THEY HAVE TO BE PASSIONATE ABOUT THEIR SUBJECT. LIKE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE HAD A THEATER TEACHER WHO IS ALL EVERYWHERE AND I HAVE HAD ENGLISH TEACHERS, YOU KNOW, BUELLER, BUELLER, BUELLER, YOU KNOW. >> RIGHT. TEACHERS DO FEEL PUT OUT ABOUT THIS. THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE UNDER THE GUN A LITTLE BIT AND PERHAPS HAVING THAT EXTRA CONVERSATION LIKE YOU MENTIONED ABOUT YOUR BAND INSTRUCTOR, HOW DO YOU GRADE FOR THAT?

THERE IS SOMEBODY THAT CARES ABOUT THE STUDENTS, HOW DO YOU GRADE? IT IS INTERESTING TO CONSIDER THAT. >> I THINK POSSIBLY, LIKE, WE DO IT IN NMSU. LIKE EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS, WE GET AN EVALUATION WHERE WE GET TO GRADE THE TEACHER AND I THINK THAT, LIKE, IF THERE WAS MORE OF THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL, THAT MIGHT HELP, YOU KNOW. BECAUSE HONESTLY THE BEST TEACHERS ARE THE ONES THAT THE STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, ARE INTO. >> THAT HELPS YOU TO KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO WORK ON, BECAUSE NO ONE IS PERFECT. >> AT SOME POINT IT HAS TO COME FROM INSIDE AND IT IS ALL DOWN TO EACH ONE OF US AS INDIVIDUALS TO DRIVE THROUGH SOMETHING. WHAT WAS IT FOR YOU? WHAT DROVE YOU? >> JUST THE DESIRE TO BE SOMEONE IN LIFE AND JUST IMPACT STUDENTS. JUST FAITH THAT IT WOULD COME OUT GOOD. >> THANK YOU GUYS FOR DOING THIS, HONESTLY. WHEN I SAY DOING THIS, I MEAN PARTICIPATING IN ERIN'S FILM BECAUSE THAT WAS A VERY BRAVE THING

YOU GUYS DID. THANK YOU FOR COMING UP TO ALBUQUERQUE AND TALKING ABOUT THIS. >> ABSOLUTELY. ERIN HUDSON, THANK YOU, OUR TIME IS NOW. A GREAT DOCUMENTARY AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A GREAT THING FOR NEW MEXICO. I REALLY WANT EVERYBODY TO WATCH IT. THANKS FOR COMING DOWN. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH, APPRECIATE IT. >> WATER IS LIFE AND EVERYTHING ON EARTH THAT IS LIVING NEEDS THE ETHIC IS REALLY ABOUT STEWARDSHIP. WE'RE PULLING THE LEVERS ON WATER NOW. WE'RE OPERATING A LOT OF RIVERS LIKE PLUMBING SYSTEMS SO THE OTHER LIFE IN THE WORLD DEPENDS ON US. >> AN INITIATIVE DESIGNED TO REWARD TEACHERS FOR MOVING TO STRUGGLING SCHOOLS HAS DRAWN THE IRE OF SOME ADMINISTRATION, WANTS TO GIVE TEACHERS WHO MOVE FROM SCHOOLS RANKED A OR B IN THIS RANKING SYSTEM WE HAVE HERE, MOVE THOSE TEACHERS TO THOSE RANKED D OR F AND A $5,000 PAY BOOST WILL COME. BUT MANY TEACHERS

QUESTION THE MERITS OF THE PLAN AND WHETHER THESE GRADES REFLECT A TEACHER'S EFFECTIVENESS. >> ROB, YOU WROTE ABOUT THIS ACTUALLY. IT IS NOT STRICTLY A PARTISAN ISSUE. IT PASSED THE LEGISLATURE. PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS WEIGHED IN. IT IS GOING ON AROUND THE COUNTRY IN DIFFERENT WAYS. THE NATURE OF THE PUSHBACK, YOUR SENSE, WHY IS THIS NOT POPULAR IN THE TEACHING COMMUNITY? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? >> BECAUSE, FOR A LOT OF THEM REFORM, FOR A LOT OF THEM THAT IS A BIG REASON WHY. NOW >> ARE YOU TALKING FROM THE PROFESSIONAL EDUCATOR OR RANK AND FILE. >> THE TEACHERS UNION, SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, AND IN SANTA FE NONE OF THE FIRST OF ALL, IT SHOULD BE POINTED OUT THAT THESE TRANSFERS, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO TRANSFER, IS PURELY VOLUNTARY, NO ONE IS FORCED TO DO IT. AND, ALSO, YOU WOULD THINK THAT JUST AS YOU MENTIONED THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS OFFERED SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS, BECAUSE, YOU HAVE GOT

THE PROBLEM IS YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP STRUGGLING SCHOOLS AND THE THINKING IS, WELL, WE CAN MAKE AN INCENTIVE FOR SOME OF THESE TEACHERS THAT ARE IN SCHOOLS THAT ARE DOING GREAT AND BRING THEM THERE. >> YOU USED THAT WORD INCENTIVE AND JERI CLAUSING, FROM AP, OPINIONS BEING WHAT THEY ARE, DEPENDS, $5,000 IS A LOT OF MONEY FOR SOME PEOPLE AND AN INSULT FOR SOME OTHERS. >> I WOULD THINK A TRUE INCENTIVE WOULD HAVE TO BE PUTTING MONEY TO WHERE YOU ACTUALLY PAY THOSE TEACHER LONG TERM TO HAVE A REAL INCENTIVE TO GO THERE. $5,000 ONE TIME INCENTIVE, I DON'T THINK >> HERE IS ANOTHER THING THAT TO THROW AT YOU AS WELL. MY EX WIFE IS A SCHOOLTEACHER, I HAVE BEEN AROUND A LOT OF SCHOOL TEACHERS, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ATTITUDE OF THE TEACHERS WHO ARE SLOGGING AWAY IN A D OR F SCHOOL AND THIS SUPERSTAR WALTZES IN THE DOOR WITH $5,000 IN THEIR POCKET THAN THEY HAVE JUST BY BEING THERE. ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT

IS GOING TO BE A COHESIVE TEAM? >> RIGHT. THAT IS NOT A SUPERSTAR. THEY HAPPEN TO COME FROM A SCHOOL THAT HAS MORE FUNDING THAT HAS BETTER GRADES, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THERE IS REALLY ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE SCHOOL GRADE. >> WOULD YOU AGREE, THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THAT MAKE A TEACHER EFFECTIVE OR NOT. >> THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS ENTIRE ISSUE IF YOU'RE A TEACHER WHO IS WORKING AT A SCHOOL GRADED A OR B OR WHATEVER THE PLAN IS, THAT YOU'RE A GREAT TEACHER, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF CONNECTION TO YOUR ACTUAL EVALUATION, TO YOUR ACTUAL METHOD, TO WHAT YOUR RESULTS HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUALIZED. IF YOU'RE FROM A SCHOOL, YOU CAN MOVE TO THIS OTHER SCHOOL. IT IS DEMORALIZING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME, MAYBE WONDERFUL TEACHERS, IN POORLY PERFORMING OVERALL SCHOOLS. THAT IS GOING TO CAUSE A LOT OF PROBLEMS AND THERE IS NOT A LONG TERM FIX. IT IS A ONE TIME $5,000. >> IF I CAN JUMP IN HERE, IS THAT, YOU MAKE A VERY GOOD POINT. YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN, LAURA, HOWEVER THERE IS VERY LITTLE TEACHER EVALUATION HERE IN NEW MEXICO

AND WITH THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT TRIES TO PUT IN A TEACHER EVALUATION PROGRAM, THEY ARE MET WITH RESISTANCE, SO >> A LAWSUIT. >> IF WE'RE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHETHER A TEACHER IS AN EFFECTIVE TEACHER, A BIG REASON OR A BIG WAY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB IS HAVING A GOOD EVALUATION SYSTEM. >> BUT, TO TIE THESE STANDARDIZED TESTS AND EVALUATIONS, THE STANDARDIZED TEST MAY NOT REALLY YOU'RE TESTING STUDENTS WHO ARE NOT STARTING OUT ON THE SAME FOOT HERE. SO, IT IS DIFFICULT, AND AGAIN YOU'RE NOT DETERMINING WHETHER THE TEACHERS AT THESE POOR SCHOOLS, THEY MAY WELL BE BETTER TEACHERS BUT THEIR STUDENTS AREN'T COMING INTO IT WITH THE SAME BASIC SKILLS. >> AND THE POORER SCHOOLS HAVE ACTUALLY MADE, AS A PERCENTAGE, MORE ADVANCES THAN ACTUALLY THAT A OR B SCHOOL WHO ARE MAINTAINING A STUDENT'S GOOD HABITS. >> THERE IS ALL KINDS OF ISSUES; HOME LIFE, A STABLE PLACE TO DO HOMEWORK, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT GOES INTO A SCHOOL'S OVERALL PERFORMANCE. >> A TEACHER IS

ONE ASPECT, ONE PART OF THAT WHAT IS THE HOME LIFE? WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC SITUATION? WHAT ARE THE RESOURCES THAT ARE GOING INTO THE SCHOOL TO HELP THE TEACHERS TO, YOU KNOW, THE STUDENTS. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT IS WHY I THINK IT WOULD BE SMART TO DO, INSTEAD OF OFFERING SAYING, OKAY, SOME TEACHERS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS, SOMETIMES IS THE CASE. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT UNLESS YOU EVALUATE. LET'S GIVE, INSTEAD OF $5,000 INCENTIVE, LET'S FREE UP $5,000 OR $10,000 FOR A SCHOOL TO TRY A NEW APPROACH TO REACH CERTAIN AREAS OF STUDENTS THAT NEED TO ACHIEVE. YOU KNOW, I THINK A GOOD CULTURE OF TEST TAKING CREATES STUDENTS WHO ARE GOOD TEST TAKERS, BUT AS WE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY, WE DON'T NEED A BUNCH OF GOOD TEST TAKERS, WE NEED GOOD WORKERS, FOLKS WHO ARE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMMUNITY, NOT BE REALLY GOOD AT TAKING A STANDARDIZED TEST. >> FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, AND I AM JUST IN A CONTRARY MOOD TODAY, BUT IF WE HAVE GOT DOCTORS, WE HAVE GOT A DOCTOR SHORTAGE

IN NEW MEXICO. WE HAVE INCENTIVES TO BRING DOCTORS TO PLACES LIKE DEMING, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU GREW UP. WHAT IS WRONG WITH OFFERING DOCTORS IF WE GIVE DOCTORS INCENTIVES AND SAY WE'LL KNOCK OFF A PORTION OF YOUR MEDICAL EXPENSES, WHY DON'T WE JUST SOMETIMES AUTOMATICALLY SAY, TO EVALUATE TEACHERS, YOU'RE SEPARATING THEM BETWEEN GOOD AND BAD. WE DO THAT WHEN WE INCENTIVIZE DOCTORS. >> LET ME THROW A COUNTER AT YOU. IT SEEMS THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING REWARDED FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN IN THEIR CONTROL, MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FROM THERE SKILL SET. WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY MAKE NO DIFFERENCE AT THE NEW SCHOOL? DO THEY GIVE THE 5 GRAND BACK? WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY FAIL? IT IS FREE MONEY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO KEEP THE MONEY. SO TO SPEAK. IS THERE AN OUTSIDE PLAN THE FACT THAT YOU DO SUCCEED WITH THIS FAILED SCHOOL? IT DOESN'T SEEM TERRIBLY THOUGHT OUT. >> WHAT

IS TO KEEP THEM AFTER TWO YEARS FROM MOVING BACK? IT IS NOT REALLY, I THINK, BRINGING THE TYPE OF VALUE THAT IT APPEARS TO BE, I MEAN, THOSE WHO PROPOSED IT ARE SUGGESTING THAT IT IS GOING TO BRING, BECAUSE THERE IS NO LONG TERM CHECK AND BALANCE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY BRINGING THAT VALUE. >> BACK TO ROB'S POINT, ASSUME THERE WERE VALUE WITH BRINGING PEOPLE FROM OTHER PLACES WITH NEW IDEAS, NEW SENSIBILITIES, NEW STANDARDS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, AND IT IS CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE, IT'S LOCALLY SENSITIVE AND THINGS WORK. IN YOUR GUYS VIEW WHAT, WOULD BE A BETTER WAY TO GO? STARTING WITH ROB, WHAT WOULD BE A BETTER WAY TO GO TO MOVE TEACHERS AROUND? IS IT ABOUT MONEY? AS I READ IT, IT IS NOT ABOUT MONEY FOR TEACHERS. THEY ARE IN IT FOR VASTLY DIFFERENT REASONS. >> I REMEMBER BACK WHEN I WAS IN GRAD SCHOOL AND THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS THAT MOTIVATE PEOPLE. MONEY IS ONE OF THEM. AND THAT IS REGARDLESS WHETHER YOU ARE A TEACHER, OR WHATEVER PROFESSION YOU'RE IN. I THINK

YOU HAVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, I HATE TO USE THIS TERM, IT SOUNDS SO PBS'ISH, BUT WE HAVE AN INTEGRATED SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE JUST ONE THING AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE WITH MONEY OR DO THIS. IT HAS TO BE PART OF A GREATER PLAN. >> IT SEEMS TO ME WE HAVE THIS HYPERVENTILATING LOOK AT TEACHERS. THE TEACHER IS THE BE ALL END ALL, AND IT IS AN ECOSYSTEM THAT MAKES A KID OR SCHOOL SUCCESSFUL OR NOT. HAVE WE GOTTEN TO HYSTERICAL ABOUT HOW INDIVIDUAL TEACHERS AND HOW THEY PERFORM IN THE CLASSROOM? >> EDUCATION IS A BAFFLING TOPIC THIS WAY. YOU KNOW WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEM. IT IS HARD TO KNOW. WHETHER IT IS THE GRADING, HAVE WE GOTTEN TOO HYPERSENSITIVE ABOUT GRADING SCHOOLS AND TEACHERS? THERE WAS A STORY IN THE WASHINGTON POST THIS WEEK, ONE OF THE REPORTERS FOLLOWED THE SECRETARY DUNCAN DOWN

TO COLUMBUS, TALKING ABOUT THE CHILDREN THAT COME OVER FROM MEXICO TO BE TAUGHT IN THE DEMING SCHOOLS. SOME OF THEM HAVE NEVER EVEN HELD A PENCIL, YOU KNOW, THE BROAD SPECTRUM OF CHALLENGES THAT THESE TEACHERS FACE FROM DIFFERENT SCHOOLS. >> IT SEEMS TO ME, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, IT SEEMS TO ME BACK TO THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE AND WRAP THIS UP LAURA, IS THAT TEACHERS, THIS IDEA DOES NOT SOUND LIKE TEACHERS WERE AT THE TABLE THAT THEY WERE LISTENED TO. I CAN'T IMAGINE A COHORT OF TEACHERS AGREEING TO THIS, THAT THEY WERE PART OF THE ORIGINAL DOES YOUR GUT SAY THE SAME THING? >> I AM NOT SURE TEACHERS HAVE BEEN AT THE TABLE FOR A LOT OF THIS KIND OF THING. BACK TO THE $60,000 READER IDEA, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THINGS STAND WITH THAT BUT YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE AVERAGE SALARY THAT THE TEACHERS ARE MAKING PLUS $5,000 IF YOU MOVE TO ONE OF THESE AREAS, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG THERE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT >> A LOT OF FOLKS MAKING THESE DECISIONS ARE FORMER TEACHERS. I DON'T THINK IT IS ACCURATE TO SAY TEACHERS DON'T HAVE

A PLACE AT THE TABLE. TEACHERS ARE AT THE TABLE. >> ARE THEY NOT MEETING WITH LEGISLATORS TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM THIS WEEK, A GROUP OF TEACHERS? >> I'LL DEFER TO YOU. >> NOT BEING HEARD IS THE GRIPE. >> IT IS ALL ABOUT CREATING RELEVANCE. TEACHERS, BECAUSE OF THEIR NATURE, HAVE A RELEVANT PLACE IN OUR SOCIETY. THEY HAVE A RELEVANT PLACE IN EDUCATION. HOW ARE THEY TRANSITIONING THAT TO MAKE A POINT AT THE TABLE? SO TO SPEAK. ALL I SEE RIGHT NOW ARE TWO SIDES ON DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE TABLE. LIKE THE LEGISLATURE, WE HAVE A CONTENTIOUS BILL, NOBODY IS WILLING TO BUDGE, BUT NOBODY REALLY SHOWING THE REASON WHY THEY ARE RELEVANT, THEY ARE USING THEIR POWER TO TRY AND INFLUENCE THEIR PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW AND THE KIDS ARE FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS. >> INTERESTING. ON THAT POINT, INTERESTING. LET'S SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT, BECAUSE MONEY DOES TALK, BUT IT JUST TALKS TO A FEW. IN A MOMENT, WE'RE BACK WITH TWO EXPERTS TO TALK ABOUT CHANGING OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH WATER TO PROTECT OUR RIVER BASINS. >> DO WE TAKE WATER FOR GRANTED? WHO KNOWS.

DESPITE THE RECENT DELUGE IN NEW MEXICO, OUR RIVERS ARE STILL AT RISK. HOW DO WE STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN HUMAN NEEDS AND THE ECOSYSTEMS THAT RELY ON THAT SAME WATER. NMIF PRODUCER, MEGAN KAMERICK SAT DOWN WITH SANDRA POSTEL, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC FRESH WATER FELLOW AND BETH BARDWELL, SHE'S THE DIRECTOR OF THE FRESH WATER CONSERVATION WITH AUTOBAHN NEW MEXICO TO TALK ABOUT TAKING WATER CONSERVATION AND RESTORATION INTO THE 21ST CENTURY. >> SANDRA, I WANT TO START WITH YOU. YOU HAVE WRITTEN, IN REGARDS TO RIVERS A RIVER IN EGYPT, IT FLOWS IN EVERY ONE OF US. TALK ABOUT THAT. >> I THINK WE'RE USED TO THINKING ABOUT WATER COMING FROM THE SKY. IT IS ALWAYS THERE, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE, ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE. SO, THERE IS A LOT OF DENIAL ABOUT HOW SERIOUS OUR WATER PROBLEMS HAVE BECOME. WATER IS FINITE. AND OUR DEMANDS FROM AND CONSUMPTION GROWTH HAVE BEEN BUMPING UP AGAINST THE LIMITS OF THAT SUPPLY, IN MORE AND MORE RIVER BASINS, INCLUDING THE RIO GRANDE,

INCLUDING THE COLORADO. AND MANY OTHER RIVER BASINS AROUND THE WORLD. SO, THE DENIAL IS, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM, IT FALLS FROM THE SKY. IT IS ALWAYS THERE. >> IT COMES OUT OF THE TAP. >> AS LONG AS WE TURN ON THE TAP AND THERE IS WATER, EVERYTHING IS GOOD, BUT IN FACT THERE IS A LOT OF STRESS AROUND THE WORLD WITH REGARD TO WATER, INCLUDING HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST AND MEXICO. >> THIS DENIAL IS A PERSONAL LEVEL AS WELL AS POLICY LEVEL UPPER ECHELON. >> VERY MUCH SO, BUT WE STARTING TO GET IT NOW. WHEN YOU SEE DRY RIVERS CROPPING UP ALL OVER THE WORLD, THERE IS A VERY VISIBLE SIGN THAT WE'RE IN TROUBLE. LESS CLEAR WITH GROUNDWATER, YOU KNOW, IT IS LITERALLY SORT OF OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND AND THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT I WORRY ABOUT NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE IT AND WE HAVE THE SENSE THERE IS THESE VAST RESERVOIRS UNDERGROUND. BUT OVERPUMPING GROUNDWATER HERE AGAIN IN NEW MEXICO, ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST, ALL OVER THE WORLD, SO IF YOU HAD UP ALL OF THE OVERPUMPING OF GROUNDWATER, IT IS A LOT OF WATER AND A LOT OF IT IS

GROWING FOOD SO WE HAVE TO ASK, IF WE'RE ESSENTIALLY TAKING TOMORROW'S WATER TO MEET OUR FOOD NEEDS TODAY, WHERE IS THE WATER GOING TO COME FROM TO GROW THE FOOD FOR TOMORROW. SO IT IS A CONCERN THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY ADDRESSING. >> YOU HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY AND FOUNDED GLOBAL WATER POLICY PROJECT AND YOU SAY THAT WE HUMANS NEED TO ADOPT A WATER ETHIC. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHY IS IT NECESSARY? >> I THINK IT IS A COUPLE OF THINGS. FIRST, I THINK, IT IS A NEW WAY OF THINKING ABOUT WATER. A NEW KIND OF MINDSET AROUND WATER. YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW WE VALUED WATER IN THE PAST, IF WE ATTRIBUTE VALUE TO WATER WHEN WE TAKE IT OUT OF A RIVER, OR OUT OF AN UNDERGROUND AQUIFER, AND PUT IT TO USE ON A FARM, OR IN A CITY OR IN A FACTORY, AND THAT IS HOW IT ACQUIRES VALUE. AND RECENTLY, WE'RE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT WATER ACTUALLY HAS VALUE IN ITS PLACE IN NATURE, THAT, YOU KNOW, A HEALTHY RIVER GIVES US HEALTHY FISHERIES

AND BIRDS AND WILDLIFE. IT IS CLEANSING OVER WATER, WETLANDS DO A TREMENDOUS JOB OF NOT ONLY REMOVING POLLUTION BUT ATTENUATING FLOODS AND MITIGATING DROUGHTS AND SO THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT BENEFITS FOR US. AND YET WE HAVEN'T VALUED THAT. SO, HAPPILY, NOW, WE'RE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT WATER DOING ITS THING IN NATURE IS IMPORTANT AND HAS VALUE, SO, NOW, THE TRICK IS FINDING THE BALANCE. WHAT IS THE BALANCE BETWEEN THOSE EXTRACTIVE USES OF WATER AND LETTING NATURE HAVE THE WATER THAT IT NEEDS. FOR ME PERSONALLY, THE WATER ETHIC IS DEEPER THAN THAT. IT IS THAT WATER IS LIFE. EVERYTHING ON EARTH THAT IS LIVING NEEDS WATER TO SURVIVE. ETHIC IS REALLY ABOUT STEWARDSHIP. IT IS ABOUT RECOGNIZING THAT WE'RE PULLING THE LEVERS ON WATER, WE'RE OPERATING A LOT OF RIVERS LIKE PLUMBING SYSTEMS, SO THE OTHER LIFE IN THIS WORLD DEPENDS ON US AND WE HAVE TO STEP UP AND BE STEWARDS OF NOT ONLY WATER

BUT ALL THE LIFE THAT DEPENDS ON WATER. SO FOR ME, WHAT REALLY GUIDES MY THINKING IS SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE ENOUGH WATER FOR ALL LIVING THINGS BEFORE SOME GET MORE THAN ENOUGH. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE HARD TO IMPLEMENT BUT IT IS A GUIDING PRINCIPLE THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHAT THE REST OF LIFE NEEDS BEFORE WE TAKE A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN WE REALLY NEED. >> THAT IS A GREAT SEGUE TO BETH BECAUSE I INTERVIEWED AUTHORS OF REINING IN THE RIO GRANDE,RECENTLY AND HISTORICALLY, THERE IS THIS IDEA THAT WATER IN THE RIO GRANDE THAT MADE IT TO GULF OF MEXICO WAS WASTED. IT GOES TO WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT, WHAT IS THE VALUE OF WATER. IS THAT ATTITUDE STILL CLINGING A LITTLE BIT? >> NEW MEXICO IN THE LAST DECADE IN TERMS OF BEGINNING TO RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF KEEPING WATER IN THE STREAM. SO, WE HAVE HAD THE STRATEGIC WATER RESERVE, CURRENT STATUE ON THE BACKS

NOW THAT ALLOWS INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION TO OBTAIN PERMITS TO LEAVE WATER IN STREAM FOR THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES, SENSITIVE SPECIES, AND THEN ALSO RECENTLY, I THINK THE STATE ENGINEER HAS APPROVED A COUPLE OF ALTERNATIVE TOOLS OR INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS TO KEEPING WATER IN STREAMS. HE INDICATED THAT HE WOULD LOOK FAVORABLY ON AN APPLICATION TO LEASE WATER FOR IN STREAM FLOW, AND THAT WOULD BE A TEMPORARY LEASE, NOT A PERMANENT DRYING OF AGRICULTURAL LAND, LET'S SAY. AS WELL AS WE HAVE A WATER CONSERVATION PROGRAM ON THE BOOKS AS WELL THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO PLACE WATER IN STREAM OR TO FORBEAR AND AVOID FORFEITURE. I THINK THAT THERE ARE TOOLS AVAILABLE. >> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS INITIATIVE THAT AUTOBAHN LED AND SANDRA

I THINK YOU WERE INVOLVED IN AS WELL, BUT, THE ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT WILL NOW ALLOW FARMERS TO SELL WATER RIGHTS THAT CAN BE USED TO HELP GROW RIVERSIDE VEGETATION NOT JUST WATER CROPS. WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG DEAL? WHY A BIG SHIFT? >> WELL, I THINK IT WAS AN INNOVATIVE PROGRAM FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR IS A SINGLE PURPOSE RESERVOIR AND BY THAT I MEAN IT IS AUTHORIZED ONLY FOR AGRICULTURE. >> I DID NOT KNOW THAT UNTIL I STARTED RESEARCHING THIS. >> IT IS ONE OF THE OLDEST RESERVOIRS AND BUREAU OF RECLAMATION IN THE NATION, AND AT THAT TIME PEOPLE WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT MULTIPLE BENEFITS FOR WATER STORAGE, WHETHER IT IS DRINKING WATER OR ENVIRONMENTAL FISHERIES AND SO ON. SO, IT IS AUTHORIZED ONLY FOR AGRICULTURE AND ALTHOUGH THERE ARE POLICY MECHANISMS TO ALLOW THAT WATER TO BE USED FOR DRINKING WATER, LIKE IT IS IN EL PASO, THEY TEND TO BE

BURDENSOME. SO, WE WORKED WITH THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION AND ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT TO AGREE TO A POLICY THAT SAID, HEY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GROW COTTONWOODS AND WILLOWS, NATIVE VEGETATION, ISN'T THAT SIMILAR TO GROWING A CROP. AND THEY AGREED, THAT, YES, THEY WOULD CONSIDER AND THAT CHARACTERIZE THAT AS AGRICULTURAL USE. SO, WE HAVE ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT HAS ADOPTED A POLICY TO DO THAT AND WE'RE IN THE PROCESS NOW OF TRYING TO EXECUTE OUR FIRST WATER ACQUISITION. >> SANDRA, IS THAT SOMETHING, A DEAL LIKE THAT, IS THAT TAKING PLACE AROUND THE WEST? >> IT IS QUITE INNOVATIVE AND I HAVE TO SAY, I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT PARTICULAR ONE. SO, BETH AND AUTOBAHN GET ALL THE CREDIT FOR THAT, BUT I THINK IT SHOWS IT IS TRYING TO SORT OF UPDATE OUR THINKING ABOUT WATER AND REALIZE THAT THESE THINGS DO HAVE VALUE. IT IS REALLY ABOUT MAXIMIZING THE VALUE

IN AN ECONOMIC SENSE. IF WE UNDERSTAND THAT WATER HAS VALUE IN SUPPORTING WETLANDS AND THE KIND OF WORK THAT BETH HAS DESCRIBED, WE'RE GETTING MORE VALUE OUT OF THAT WATER BECAUSE IT IS DOING ITS WORK IN AGRICULTURE BUT SERVING OTHER IMPORTANT PURPOSES THAT WE HAVEN'T PAID ATTENTION TO. CERTAINLY IN THE WORK I DO WITH NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC IN PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE WEST, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THAT THERE ARE THESE INNOVATIVE TOOLS WE CAN USE THAT MAKE SURE WE HAVE, YES, HEALTHY ECONOMIES AND PRODUCTIVE AGRICULTURE, BUT ALSO GIVE RIVERS BACK AND WETLANDS BACK SOME OF THE WATER THEY NEED. THAT IS EXCITING TO ME AND THAT IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT AND SEVERAL OTHER AT LEAST EXAMPLES OF THIS. >> YOU WROTE A BOOK CALLED COLORED SAND, THE HISTORY OF IRRIGATION, 6,000 YEARS OLD. WHERE DO YOU SEE IRRIGATION GOING IN THE 21ST CENTURY AS SCARCITY INCREASES? >> TO ME THE SILVER LINING IN WATER SCARCITY, WATER STRESS PICTURE IS THAT IRRIGATION IN MANY PLACES STILL OPERATES PRETTY MUCH

THE WAY IT DID A CENTURY AGO OR CENTURY AND A HALF AGO AND FARMERS BEING GOOD BUSINESS PEOPLE BASICALLY RESPOND TO THE INCENTIVES PUT BEFORE THEM. WE HAVEN'T PROVIDED ENOUGH INCENTIVE TO BRING IRRIGATION INTO THE 21ST CENTURY. >> WHAT WOULD THOSE LOOK LIKE? >> UPGRADING IRRIGATION INFRASTRUCTURE. WE WORKED ON A PROJECT WITH OUR CHANGE THE COURSE CAMPAIGN WITH NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC AND OUR PARTNERS IN THE VERDE RIVER, IN ARIZONA, WHERE ESSENTIALLY THE IRRIGATORS WERE USING A DITCH SYSTEM JUST THE WAY THEY DID 150 YEARS AGO. WITH AUTOMATION OF THAT DITCH SYSTEM, THE FARMERS REALIZED THEY COULD GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATER THEY NEEDED BUT LEAVE SOME OF IT IN THE RIVER, SO THAT FOR THAT FIVE MILES OF RIVER THAT HAD BEEN IMPACTED BY THE DITCH, AND, THEREFORE, GOING DRY IN THE SUMMER, THAT RIVER IS NOW HEALTHIER FOR THAT LONG STRETCH. >> INTERESTING, USING THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATER BUT AUTOMATING THIS SOMEHOW. >> IRRIGATORS WERE TAKING MORE THAN THEY NEEDED SIMPLY BECAUSE THE DITCH SYSTEM ALLOWED THEM TO DO THAT, AND THE IRRIGATION MINDSET IS,

YOU KNOW, TAKE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BECAUSE IF WE DON'T USE IT, WE'LL LOSE IT. AND THIS KIND OF THING. BUT WITH THIS INFRASTRUCTURE UPGRADE IT GAVE THEM THE CONFIDENCE THEY WERE GOING TO GET THE WATER THEY NEEDED BUT THE RIVER WOULD ALSO GET MORE WATER BECAUSE THE AUTOMATION ALLOWED THAT TO BE BECOME PRECISE. SO IT SHOWS AGAIN, INCREASED VALUE IN WATER, BECAUSE VERDE IS HEALTHIER IN THE SUMMER FOR FISHING, FOR BOATING. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL RIVER. A BEAUTIFUL DESERT RIVER, COMES KIND OF OUT OF SEDONA, FLAGSTAFF AND FLOWS DOWN, BECOMES A WILD AND SCENIC STRETCH. IT IS MUCH MORE VALUABLE NOW FOR ALL USES AND THAT IS THE WAY OF THE FUTURE AND IRRIGATION HAS SO MANY POSSIBILITIES FOR IMPROVED EFFICIENCY WHERE YOU GET MORE VALUE, MORE PRODUCTIVITY OUT OF THE WATER, MORE VALUE PER UNIT THAT WE EXTRACT AND LEAVE MORE THAN DRIP IRRIGATION MORE EFFICIENT SPRINKLERS, IRRIGATION UPGRADES, THESE ARE ALL TECHNOLOGIES OUT THERE THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO DEPLOY TO ACHIEVE THIS BETTER

BALANCE. >> I WANT TO ASK BETH BECAUSE 80% OF OUR WATER IN NEW MEXICO GOES TOWARDS AGRICULTURAL IRRIGATION AND THIS IS REALLY INTERESTING. IS THAT SUSTAINABLE GIVEN THESE KIND OF TOOLS? DO WE NEED TO RETHINK THAT AND HOW DO WE DO THAT BECAUSE THAT IS A SENSITIVE ISSUE HERE. >> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK WHERE OF OUR ATTENTION AND OUR BRAIN POWER IS FINDING THOSE INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS, COLLABORATIVE SOLUTIONS WITH EXISTING WATER RIGHTS OWNERS. HOW CAN WE INTEGRATE MANAGEMENT ACROSS THIS SYSTEM TO NOW BENEFIT MULTIPLE USES. EXAMPLE OF THAT MIGHT BE LOOKING AT INTEGRATED RESERVOIR MANAGEMENT ON THE UPPER RIO GRANDE AND THROUGH THE ALBUQUERQUE REACH. HOW ARE WE OPERATING THE RESERVOIRS AND WHAT TYPE OF WATER IS ALLOWED TO BE STORED THERE AND FOR WHAT PURPOSES. AND IF WE COULD MAXIMIZE FLEXIBILITY IN THOSE RESERVOIRS, COULD WE, AS WATER IS DELIVERED FROM POINT A TO POINT B, DO A LOT

OF ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFIT AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT A LITTLE BIT WITH THE COCHITI RESERVOIR DEVIATION THAT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS WAS ALLOWING FOR SEVERAL YEARS TO PROVIDE THAT SPAWNING FLOW, KIND OF THAT SNOW MELT SPRING RUNOFF. AND WE GOT A LOT OF FISH SPAWNING OUT THAT AND A LOT OF COTTON WILLOW REGENERATION. SO HOW CAN WE DO THAT IN A WAY THAT ALSO MEETS OUR COMPACT DELIVERIES AND ALSO PROVIDES WATER FOR IRRIGATORS. YOU KNOW. IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABILITY, I THINK THAT IN THE LIGHT OF DROUGHT AND OUR VARIABLE WATER SUPPLY, EVEN OUTSIDE OF CLIMATE CHANGE, WE NEED TO BE THINKING SMARTER WAYS ABOUT HOW TO USE OUR WATER MORE EFFICIENTLY, WITH GROWING POPULATION, WITH CHANGES IN CROPPING TRENDS. I THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE TRYING TO MAKE WATER DO DOUBLE DUTY AS IT IS USED, DOUBLE BENEFITS, AND MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT WE'RE USING, SO,

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT. >> SO, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF EFFORTS AROUND NEW MEXICO AND I AM SURE OTHER PLACES IN THE WEST TO GET CONSUMERS AND WATER UTILITIES TO FOCUS ON CONSERVATION. HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS? >> I THINK IT IS HUGELY IMPORTANT. AGRICULTURE, AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, IS THE DOMINANT USES OF WATER. IT TAKES THE LION'S SHARE OF WATER THAT WE ARE USING IN MOST PLACES IN THE WEST AND MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD, BUT OUR URBAN USES OF WATER, WHILE NOT A HIGH PERCENTAGE, ARE VERY CONCENTRATED. AND SO THEY CAN PUT A LOT OF STRAIN AND STRESS ON THE LOCAL REGIONAL WATER SUPPLY. AND SO ALSO IT TAKES A LOT OF ENERGY TO MOVE WATER AROUND. YOU KNOW. TO DELIVER IT AND COLLECT IT, TREAT THE WASTEWATER. SO, IT TOUCHES ON BOTH WATER AND ENERGY IN TERMS OF OUR WATER USE. SO, YOU KNOW, THE CONSERVATION OF WATER IN URBAN SETTINGS IS SUCH A WIN/WIN ALL AROUND IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, PRESERVING WATER SUPPLIES

AS WELL AS REDUCING ENERGY CONSUMPTION, CHEMICAL USE FOR THE TREATMENT, INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT, HOW BIG A RESERVOIR DO WE NEED, HOW BIG DO THE PIPES HAVE TO BE TO DELIVER AND COLLECT. SO IT IS REALLY BOTH AN ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE AND WE'RE STARTING TO CATCH ON TO THAT IDEA AND YOU CAN SEE CITIES ACROSS THE WEST REALLY REDUCING, INCLUDING ALBUQUERQUE, REDUCING PER CAPITA WATER USE. WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO BUT EDUCATING CONSUMERS, PARTICULARLY ABOUT OUTDOOR WATER USE, WHICH IN THE WEST IS OFTEN 50% OR MORE OF HOUSEHOLD USE. SO PAYING PEOPLE TO HAVE NATIVE LAND, RIP OUT THEIR LAWNS AND HAVE NATIVE LANDSCAPE. >> OUR TIME IS JUST ABOUT UP, BUT A QUESTION, DO WE PAY ENOUGH FOR WATER? IS IT TOO CHEAP? QUICK ANSWER. >> I WOULD SAY, YES, WE AREN'T PAYING THE TRUE VALUE OF WATER AND THAT A LOT OF THE EARLY FEDERAL WATER PROJECTS, ACTUALLY, NEVER INCORPORATED

THE COST OF WATER. THEY ARE PAYING FOR THE DELIVERY AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONSERVATION, THAT ECONOMIC INCENTIVE ISN'T NECESSARILY THERE AND IT SHOULD BE. >> I WANT TO THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING AND TALKING WITH US. IF YOU COULD STICK AROUND FOR A LITTLE BIT AND WE'LL TALK A BIT MORE FOR THE WEB EXTRA. >> THANK YOU. >> THE ISSUE IS, YOU KNOW, ARE ONE SMELLED FUNNY TO A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE ESPECIALLY THE PRC ONE, CLEARLY WE HAVE CHIEF OF STAFF MOVING OVER, OBVIOUSLY INSIDER BASEBALL HAPPENING AND IT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH PEOPLE. >> WE'RE ON THE CLOCK NOW WITH A MINUTE AS A GROUP TO DISCUSS SOME OF THE MORE NOTABLE HEADLINES FROM THE WEEK. FOR BREAKING BAD FANS IT IS BITTER SWEET VICTORY. THE ALBUQUERQUE BASED SMASH HIT TOOK TOP AWARD FOR BEST DRAMA AT THE EMMYS, BUT IT IS CURTAINS FOR THE SERIES WHEN THE FINALE

AIRS THIS SUNDAY. ON THE GOOD SIDE, SHOW CREATOR VINCE GILLIGAN GAVE AN EPIC SHOUT OUT TO ALBUQUERQUE AT THE AWARDS CEREMONY, THANKING THE CITY AS IF IT WERE A MEMBER OF THE CAST. TOM, WHAT DO YOU WATCH ON SUNDAY NIGHT? >> I WATCH I REALLY ENJOY IT. >> WHAT HAS IT MEANT TO THE CITY? >> IT PUT ALBUQUERQUE ON THE MAP. I THINK THIS WAS ACTUALLY POSED IN THE LAST MAYORAL DEBATE. IS IT PUT ON THE MAP IN A GOOD WAY. THAT IS ANOTHER DEBATE. >> I HAVE TO ADMIT I DON'T WATCH BREAKING BAD BUT I AM PLANNING TO WATCH A MARATHON SERIES OF IT. I WATCH THE NEWSROOM ON SUNDAY NIGHTS, BUT I THINK EVERYBODY FELT THAT MOMENT IN ALBUQUERQUE WHERE THAT SHOUT OUT CAME AND I THINK IT WAS FANTASTIC. >> WHAT IS INTERESTING, JERI, THEY DID THE BEST RATING FOR BREAKING BAD AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, SIX AND A HALF MILLION VIEWERS FOR THAT BREAKING BAD EPISODE, AND AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE WINNING TOP DRAMA AWARD. GOOD FOR THE CITY? >> I THINK IT HAS BEEN GOOD FOR THE CITY AND FILM INDUSTRY. LIKE TOM

SAID, I AM NOT SURE ABOUT IT MAYBE HAS CEMENTED THE CITY'S SOMEWHAT SEEDY IMAGE. I HAVEN'T WATCHED THE SHOW MUCH BUT I AM A BIT DISTURBED BY THE GLORIFICATION OF THE METH ISSUE AND PEOPLE SELLING CANDY THAT LOOKS LIKE METH, YOU KNOW. >> YOU SEE THE RESULTS. YOU'RE A REPORTER. >> YEAH, ONCE YOU HAVE SEEN SOMEONE ON METH FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, IT IS NOT FUNNY. >> I HEAR YOU. GOT TO GET YOU IN. >> I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH JERI BUT I WILL SAY THAT THE SHOW ITSELF I FIND IS THE MOST COMPELLING TELEVISION SHOW, SERIES I HAVE PROBABLY EVER SEEN, EVEN THE SOPRANOS. THERE ARE SOME ELEMENTS THAT ARE LIKE DANTE'S INFERNO AND DEUTSCH CHAYEFSKY, SPEAKING OF PBS. >> GET READY FOR THE BINGE VIEWING LAURA, THAT IS HOW IT WORKS, BREAKING BAD, 20 EPISODES IN ONE SITTING. NEW SUBJECT. STUDY BY UNM'S INSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THE CITY'S ALBUQUERQUE HEADING HOME

PROGRAM HAS HELPED TAXPAYERS AS WELL AS THE HOMELESS. REPORTS STATES IN THE PAST THREE YEARS THE PROGRAM HAS DECREASED JAIL EXPENSES, DECREASED EMERGENCY ROOM VISITS AND HOSPITAL INPATIENT COSTS BY A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE. SAVING A TOTAL OF OVER 600,000 PER YEAR AND HELPING 250 ALBUQUERQUE'S MOST VULNERABLE. GOOD NEWS FOR THE MAYOR, RELEASING THIS, OF COURSE, DURING A MAYORAL CAMPAIGN. ANY DOWNSIDE TO THE STORY, YOU CAN SEE AT ALL? I GOT TO TELL YOU, OTHER PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT OUR PROGRAM WITH SOME RECOGNITION HERE. IT IS GETTING GOOD REVIEWS. >> I HAVE TO PLEAD IGNORANCE ON THIS ONE. I HAVE SEEN THE NUMBERS AND THEY ARE FANTASTIC, BUT DON'T KNOW DRILLING DOWN INTO THEM. FROM WHAT LITTLE I HAVE READ ABOUT IT, IT SEEMS THAT IT IS BASED ON A NUMBER OF OTHER HOMELESS REMEDIES THAT HAVE COME OUT WHERE THEY REALLY TRY TO EMPHASIZE WORKING ON THE REAL HARD CORE CASES. AND, HEY, IF IT WORKS, GOOD FOR THEM. >> JERI, STABILITY. IT IS A TOUGH THING

FOR HOMELESS FOLKS. IT IS HOUSING, POTENTIALLY A JOB, CANNOT BE ANYTHING BUT POSITIVE. >> THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY GOOD AND I DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THE PROGRAM OR YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF FUNDING WAS PUT INTO IT OR WHETHER IT IS TAKING FUNDING FROM OTHER SERVICES FOR OTHER HOMELESS PEOPLE BUT IT SOUNDS >> REPORTER INSTINCT, YOU DON'T GIVE ANYTHING YOUR BLESSING. >> I DON'T HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT THEY HAVE WITH RECOGNIZING A PROGRAM THAT SEEMS TO BE WORKING, MOVING 250 PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS AND INTO HOMES IS AN IMPORTANT OUTCOME. >> IT TAKES A VILLAGE BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALBUQUERQUE HEADING HOME. A COUPLE OF INTERESTING NOTES, IF YOU GO TO THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, FOR SOME REASON THAT NEWS RELEASE THAT TOUTS THE PROGRAM IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE. SO, IT WAS LIKE, GOING, HUH, THAT IS KIND OF INTERESTING. A LARGER ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLICATED IN OTHER AREAS. I SPOKE RECENTLY WITH THE PROVIDER IN CLOVIS WHO SAID IF YOU ARE HOMELESS IN CLOVIS, GOOD LUCK, BECAUSE AFTER TWO DAYS, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO ONE TO HELP YOU. >> USED TO BE THAT WAY HERE. INTERESTING. NEW

SUBJECT. ATTEMPT BY THE CITY OF GALLUP TO LIMIT ALCOHOL SALES WENT OVER LIKE A LEADED BALLOON, NEW MEXICO STATE LAW SETS HOURS FOR LIQUOR SALES, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THIS, STARTING AT 7:00 A.M. MONDAY THROUGH SATURDAY, HOPING TO GIVE POLICE A FOUR HOUR RESPITE FROM ALCOHOL RELATED CRIMES. GALLUP CITY OFFICIALS ASKED FOR VENDORS TO VOLUNTEER TO NOT SELL ALCOHOL BEFORE 11:00 A.M. INTERESTING ASK BUT ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE AGREED AND NOW DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF SAYS THEY HAVE TO THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE. ALCOHOL RELATED CRIME IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM IN GALLUP. I REMEMBER YEARS AGO THE MAYOR IN GALLUP WHO PUT UP THE BILLBOARD THAT SAYS, WELCOME TO THE DRUNK DRIVING CAPITOL OF THE U.S., OUT OF SHEER DESPERATION. YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PERSON ASKING FOR BUSINESS HOURS IS A TOUGH THING. THIS IS HOW BAD THE PROBLEM IS. WAS IT A REASONABLE ASK? >> I THINK IT WAS WORTH AN ASK, BUT, I AM NOT SURPRISED THEY GOT SUCH LITTLE RESPONSE, SOUNDS LIKE THEY ONLY GOT ABOUT EIGHT RESTAURANTS AND VENDORS TO AGREE. IT IS WORTH

CONSIDERING OTHER OPTIONS AND WHAT KIND OF ORDINANCES THEY CAN PASS POSSIBLY TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE. ULTIMATELY, BUSINESSES HAVE THEIR OWN RULES ABOUT WHO THEY ARE WILLING TO SERVE, AND WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO IN TERMS OF THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY HAVE OWN LIABILITY, WHO THEY ARE SELL TO. >> YEAH. TYPICALLY, I AM ON THE SIDE OF BUSINESS, SAYING NO, YOU GOT TO PROTECT BUSINESS, BUT THERE IS A SOCIETAL ISSUE HERE, AND I APPLAUDE THEM FOR TRYING TO MAKE A STAND BUT IT HAS FAILED SO TIME TO MOVE ON TO OTHER THINGS. >> THAT IS OUT OF ABOUT 50 RETAILERS, ONLY EIGHT OR 10. >> I THINK IT IS, LIKE YOU SAID, A REASONABLE ASK. JUST A SMALL WHAT DOES IT REALLY CURE? SOMEONE MAKES A GOOD POINT, SO THIS PROMPTS PEOPLE TO THEN DRIVE TO THE COUNTY SO THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE DRIVING DRUNK. IT WAS THE SAME ARGUMENT WHEN THEY LEGALIZED LIQUOR SALES ON SUNDAY. IT FORCES SOMEONE TO DRIVE. >> I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. >> UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THING THAT FREE

MARKET PEOPLE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THEM ASKING, YOU KNOW, LOCAL BUSINESSES TO DO THAT ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS. BUT IT IS A LARGER ISSUE THAT I THINK SOMETHING ON THE MARGINS LIKE THIS PROBABLY CAN'T HELP. >> THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT. WE'LL DO WEB EXTRA STUFF. PEOPLE LOVE IT GOING OVER TO THE WEB. JERI CLAUSING, FIRST TIME. THANK YOU, YOU WERE GREAT. >> AS ALWAYS, ALL OF US HERE IN NEW MEXICO INFOCUS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO SAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED. WE LOVE HEARING FROM YOU AND SOCIAL MEDIA IS THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT. FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER BY SEARCHING NEW MEXICO INFOCUS AND YOU CAN FIND ARCHIVED INTERVIEWS AND BONUS MATERIAL ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL AND ON THE WEBSITE, NEW MEXICO INFOCUS.ORG. I AM GENE GRANT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT