Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #79; How To Hit Back At The "Harveys" - Carrie Goldberg, Sexual Consent and Internet Abuse Lawyer

pate from kalw and pr axel i'm lauren shuler and this is inflection point stories of how women rising every time you turn on the news and there's another high profile guy harassing women i don't even have the words for it anymore and that lawyer carey goldberg doesn't this is all my law firm does this deal with starting a blackmail sexual assaults real lexicon that we have to work with other than offenders and we have to tax time eyes different vendors in some fashion and that we categorize them into the halls like ghosts birds and trolls you can oh my died

today i'm just sitting here reading the headline from two to hold about harvey weinstein and i was texting back and foreign migrants from europe faces this guy named completely help her cope and hookers for harvey's yard where they were looking at golf italian harvey weinstein coverage focuses on concrete steel lombardo of it has got to be the same guy ok so there's going to be the headhunting firm that's going to their lives talk about the harvey weinstein sexes get off i hate users share their stories of harvey weinstein's allegedly of this bbc ms rose mcgowan publicize of rape accusation against weinstein and he ever hurts weinstein masturbated in front of me at age six how what it was

like to work for harvey weinstein bbc is these women are coming out of the woodwork and this is this is the most amazing thing i've ever seen in my adult life i have to say it so when this came out i was at a women's podcasting conference in los angeles surrounded by about all of one of lady hated and where were these things just don't seem to have been and i saw the headlines about harvey weinstein across my radar a near times i get the near times the newspaper of my house that was at my house is flipping through the online version of the god there's one more a hall sexually harassed saying the people he has power over i wonder what will happen now and i kind of forgot about it because it was like one more in a string of the play you know cause the tales of riley all the guys before them and then when i got back for the very air that the whole thing

has completely laughable of his faith his wife left them to take the care that he's getting help is not getting help rose mcgowan getting down from twitter for an hour women are saying that their advantage view of like that whether they're silent thing themselves in silence is actually the problem i mean one thing that path so where do we go from here this is a plague this is an incredible love it every time i have to believe that this is the time when everything changes that i've been reading you know they're very people who have been quoted saying we're at an inflection point in this is that were to look back at this time and everything's going to be their friend and her to me as like the guys that i made the entire system and urges lake yeah right so what does need to happen if the power that hu who isn't a faltering better from

here on out is that can we actually rise that i've read that you were thinking and why live with power and it's something that needed to be off and women have to be the victim you asked me earlier today we were all harassers i don't think that's actually the case i think that there are armed i think that the men out there are mostly distant mostly would have used their power think that his white wears what if i don't know what her you know if i go a lot of how or when i be tempted to use that to my own benefits again erich i think your big every person against our would be that very clearly attempting to eric i needed to get a little perspective

on the earth they'll find dated sexual harassment by harry carey goldberg to help me on earth or through this math with that for four tony for their first thing you need to know about cary think i didn't even know until we started talking about the white think a fifth i notice including one of my clients she didn't speak out and no one didn't do anything and he spoke at one point to her manager decades ago and he said i don't think i could possibly be true you know young women tell you know that ballot years she was one of the first people that was contacted by reporters because there have been for years for circulating about the fact that she had been victimized by everybody yes and ed perry is representing one of harvey weinstein i wanted to say i am so that into the term allegedly women having the courage because powerful man anyway we have a lot of material

so let's just get to a fifth yeah i mean i think that the power that they have is is freedom from punishment or from interpersonal sanctions you know when one benefit of being the top of a social hierarchy is a grim discernment impunity from punishment or are the actions of others you know i think users not these people doesn't use their power and and don't get busted an end they become you know serial sexual predators like partying and bill cosby and so i mean basically like we as women generally understand that and and and the way you know we go through our day we ended when something like this happens our feeling is generally well if i tell someone is anyone actually do something about it and the time that we're saying you're absolutely and there's reason for

that because i mean in the end the weinstein case everybody know and i mean i'd love to just going to talk to you about how this is a conspiracy and in my opinion there's there's per verges on and everybody's hands what is the technical term i learned that german law school coverage is what you learn in alaska like there's like deafness that we need to discuss that i think of as the day with the liability of of sanctioning and covering up for him in this case a serial sexual predators i mean it's very clear that it was part of the policies and procedures that miramax and the weinstein company for lower level staff members to procure women for harvey to trick them into coming to meetings and make them believe that that there was going to be a third party president and then sneak out the back door only for for him to get make it into an amazon says in some cases

actually sexually assault people yemeni the term has been used in the media is is the honey pot that the women were lured into thinking that they were going to be a messy situation and then that the so called fifty percent who apparently wasn't a safe would actually leave the realm but that's like kind of a nice term and conspiracy does seem to sum it up a little bit better right and whether it was an actual conspiracy under criminal law or were using it as more regular jardin i mean we have to think about how many people actually knew that she was a filthy predator who is just as the whirling dervish with sexually assaulting and safely traumatize ing women everywhere he went you know agents managers actors the board of his company's it's just not true that nobody knew and he settled with the women that we know of and white come from i mean you know the kids came from the

weinstein company or miramax that nobody thought to ask questions about the facts that that led to the settlement's and he didn't tell the board then when gabby fraud one thing is i also think there's been some publication about his employment contract with weinstein company that went into effect in twenty fifteen i think it's layering evidence that there was a conspiracy among weinstein company and harvey it shows that they know because there was actually a language in it that's what it was written for future events like there are finds built into his contract that says that he preaches the company's code of conduct that he's going to have to face and is bit different find so here's to reimburse the company for any settlements are judgments know two hundred fifty thousand for the first time five hundred thousand for the second seven hundred fifty for the third and then one million for each the following times that he has to sell a normal thing to go into employment contract

i've never seen anything like that in an employment contract that i had to sign partly it's just when there needs to be a court case criminal or civil they show is that i mean it's it's absolutely avid and that says that if he engages in this conduct he gets to keep his job number one you know as long as he pays the fine to a board and it also has a language that says that he can cure or chronicle the misconduct it's really all they're basically saying if you continue to engage in all these illegal acts will stand by you use that it reimburses a little bit for for the costs of the company and it's ok i mean it's basically in his contract that the new cars he also had he was paying a lawyer he was paying lisa bloom hanchett and his lawyer for an entire year and what they think they were paying any i don't think i've ever read both as she was representing weinstein company and as she was representing party personally i see a conflict there but what did they think she was brought in

for i know that my client started receiving calls from journalists months ago and then there was the laws about this story developing and absolutely he must have known why would he hired an attorney and you know there's there's reason to i mean my i kind of went to her manager and said i asked if you know if the manager knew anything else matters into it to ella without going into too much detail the mekong story there was a buzz about this and it's not as though i think it's reasonable for the board to have just found out when the story broke in the new york times no i mean i'm different from all accounts and even people that i know that have worked at miramax and every town's the very end you know every everything you read about this there is this whole whisper network people know people know and so that to me is the question of like again

or we lacking the basic structures in place to deal with these kinds of situations when they happen particularly in particularly now i think we can all say it it's happening to me it's probably also happening to someone often in his homey to hash tag you know is an incredible outpouring of that that that is probably true in almost every case what there was like an interview with andy everhart who is a model and she was sleeping on a boat when harvey walked into her room and masturbated at her end she said that she told everybody that she told actors and producers and anybody who had years and the refrain that she kept getting was on theirs as harvey i am it was just known and accepted by this man which is absolutely infuriating you like this profiting off of this man you know that's where they stayed

silent because they were making money was lining their pockets and they were benefitting from his power in his control on his abuses and they don't want to suffer financially by blowing the whistle on him i mean sure they were they were you know all scared that they could have acted together and they didn't and so it you know how people made millions from hemp that you know at the expensive of the people he just bulldozed over and whose lives he just ruined me my client who had just and counseling traumatized ing experience from him and has been terrorized by him and in fear of him for for decades mean you ask her what she wants she just wants her crew we're back and it's not there and we've heard so many stories of actors who were his victims and it's you can look at their careers and they stop and their cost there's a dollar cost to what he did because

he was controlling so much he was controlling management companies and i mean even if he didn't own them he was so powerful that no one wanted to get on his bad side and agents and you've ten stories in tabloids about people that he wasn't that he didn't like my client's case suddenly after c refuse to him and in an awful incident and got away from him suddenly there were rumors everywhere in hollywood about how she was difficult to work with and those rumors persisted for the rest of her career there's there's still persisting and she's not ask her age and her manager no link where are these rumors coming from can anybody provide me with a single example of when i was difficult i just wanna know because i don't remember i could do i come to the set every single day with my mind prepared on time you know she's a consummate

professional in contrast here to some the men she's worked with who you have punched walls on the set and you made everyone go home earlier there was there was one actor who did it come out this trailer for hours and then everybody realize and he was actually on the other side of the country on a coat badge with difficult people to work with but then you know it was a tiny place and i mean people were blacklisted this is inflection point i learned schiller my guest is where carey goldberg we'll be right back and listen if you want more of this conversation and conversations like it subscribe to us on the pub catcher of your choice to search for inflection point that

was it i'm lauren shuler and this is inflection point i'm talking with sexual harassment internet privacy lawyer carey goldberg i mean it seems like it's systemic i think there's a systematic complicit as and all of this and all of that seems to be rising to the surface now you know we have these moments before you know there was

there was a landmark supreme court case in the eighties right to put the onus on businesses to protect their employees or sexual harassment there is the near the hell merman in the nineties and now here we are twenty seventeen the harvey weinstein the menil on the heels of o'reilly cosby alles so how do we make this week actual turning point three thousand there's other times like it ought to be changed now and i truly think that the laws hate your face you have are these people and i an element and a broken record on this but that you use to get out of them and that you agitate the criminal law enforcement until they do arrest speakers and those things take you know can take months and years and so it stays in the news cycle and so we can keep talking about it but you know we also i mean there are other ways that we can challenge that the social system i mean we talked about having more diversity among people in power

me you need to get rid of of the mess that i'm perpetually mending empowering other women can lead or the other you know in tech that they're biologically not as able to decode his manner that they're difficult or bitchy that you know so many things just feel very abstract ceiling and an arresting those are those are very concrete things but we you know as a society we need to ostracize those who do abuse power we should stop investing in companies by those who harass and investors in companies should should demand full transparency about staff complaints in an about any sexual harassment settlements and we should boycott products where companies are guilty of of fostering harassing environments and you know we need to believe people who've been abused by somebody powerful we need to remember that it's not uncommon for powerful people to abusing and sexually harassed women we need to remember that happens enough that somebody who says it's happened to

them is to be believed and then we also have to just keep encouraging people to speak out because their stories or buts can galvanize social change and look what they did in this case because of length and what's worth thirty women now have spoken out quite never going to work again his whole company is being dismantled and people who are covering up for him and making money off of them they're just are suffering financially they're guilty about it because the stories not to go away and we also have to remember that they that people who are powerful they live and they die by their reputation and you know has a hand in creating reputations of powerful people everybody is people with less power had a hand in creating reputations and so there is buzz about somebody abusing their power you can't just say oh that's just harder you have to say that's affected unacceptable and he needs to go down and that if he's going into it into bedrooms on on yachts in

and pulling his powder masturbating and the plants and in front of people that don't want to see it i mean i don't know anybody who'd want to see it but you know i don't know exactly why amy that's exactly my god upon as he or because i think we've left thousand parties because then i know i'm sure there's a thousand where we could be sticking in there anyway since we recorded this interview with amazon figured she'd raised prices just down the french are considering fining catcalls and we mentioned that lead to hashtags they have their own hash tag which roughly translated means expose your pig

like that it's way more active and the question everyone's asking is will this be the moment when everything changes and not just for hollywood i certainly get reagan out so i like kerry's new to take on the powerful sax first man in the very thing that makes him dangerous and since we do have some allies out there imagine and then still other ones most often in our city i had an absolutely no touching do you do there this doesn't fluctuate and more insular and i'm talking with sexual harassment internet privacy lawyer carey goldberg is representing one of the many victims of sexual misconduct by early wednesday now there's something else you need to know about harry something that will help you understand why she cares about this that's why season going to dive headfirst

into the river my story began with imam on the internet and i had met somebody on the internet who knocked me off my feet and after a couple months it became a very frightening relationship which i ended and by ending and it started a a tsunami of stalking and just absolutely unrelenting amounts of of contacts from him hundreds if not thousands of text messages and phone calls and him trying to break into my apartment and showing up at work and contacting the two dozen of my friends and family saying that i had you're spreading these vicious rumors about me filing false police reports

it went on and on and on saying that you're sending me messages that people with a tv on had been hired by him to rate me and i had to move i had to start working from a different location when things that he was also doing was he was send me naked pictures and videos of myself telling me that that judge i was already aware at the time that that judges in my colleagues had been blind copied on these emails so i'm almost immediately i reported it to the police and the police said oh you know we can investigate but you probably can be better off if you go and get a family car or protection which i did go and do and there was this very sobering eureka moment where i was speaking to the judge and i was there by staying busy grammy an order that not only required my offender to stay away from me not contact me at home or work but that he also require the

offender to stop how threatening and harassing me online and not post anything in our contact my family and i are not send nude videos and pictures to anybody and the judge just cut this was the eureka moment where the judge just look to me and said you know i suggest you get a lawyer i know you are one that i suggest you get one because you've got a first amendment problem and getting everything just went silent and isaac the light and the judge is saying that it's the freedom of speech for this total crazy man to express himself by you know by sending la dodgers my genitals around that's in season ends and after a lot of further how i often only succeeded in getting my restraining order and my life just looked nothing like it had before and i he said you know i'm just basically decided i was going to quit my

job and spends the rest of my life to becoming for others the lawyer that i really needed because when i was going through a cuff find anybody who had the expertise that i needed somebody who could deal with domestic violence an internet law and cry a lot and and new about free speech and you know without an intersection of the curriculum that i really needed and i am and i'm happy to say that that you know we now are i started the firm in a january of twenty fourteen i am just a few short months after i got a restraining order and i'm happy to say that we have helped hundreds of people we've had hundreds of clients b from eighteen thousand and the us in images removed from the internet we've gotten dozens of restraining orders for people we've we've initiated some really great pieces against tech companies that have been integral in facilitating

harassment and stalking and they've helped with a lot of with creating and writing and advocating for a lot of state laws relating to six or shannon and revenge porn we've gone from having when i started my firm of twelve states with with prevent from austin now having thirty eight and we've got some great new federal legislation that's pending and so yeah it ended up that for the worst thing that ever happened to me it became something i'm completely grateful for my staff and i had been able to use to really help a lot more people or so you can't one and turned to the woman is in the situation right now with someone else maybe it's harvey weinstein that if somebody who has power over her what can she get here we can talk about you know the systemic things that she can do rise by speaking out but that she can use the law she can use criminal law she can see you mean let's

let's talk about lawsuits know maybe we can talk about criminal possibilities but lawsuits are the old equalizer anybody can afford to sail and in new york state where where i practice you can buy an index number and start a lawsuit for two hundred and ten dollars and so you know that's a huge equalizer lawsuits are public they hold people accountable by getting justice for the injured person i am but also by exposing the enduring person there are really important way to to get out the truth people have to make sworn statements on the record and that can be used by other victims one victim icu and suddenly more mortal read about it and realized oh my god i do have an ally there are other people that this happened you know a lot of people just don't think about suing after something terrible has happened to them and young

people sue all the time for for accidents for personal injury things like my car crashes or trips and falls you know went when a woman sues for a sexual assault she can be called an opportunist or a gold digger or crazy or a liar or that she's doing it out of vengeance but i can guarantee that if you are a wal mart and a bridge falls in your flat you can think twice about suing so widely sue for accidents but not sue for intentional militia's actions like sexual assaults like like domestic violence and what problems often is that the offender the defendant in these cases is judgment proof and doesn't have any money and the victim could get a humongous award you know like five million dollars and the offender your has ten dollars to his name so that's all the victim can ever hope to collect and so lawyers who might otherwise do

personal injury cases on a contingency basis are going to shun cases where they don't think they're ever going to be able to go to even recoup they're legal expenses i called a power purchase at another time have we how have i mean you might be thy love the terminology that you're using and i disavow that a serious topic that i definitely appreciate the light and he believes there's nothing more serious and this this is all my law firm does is deal with stalking and blackmail and sexual assaults there isn't oh real lexicon that we have to work with other than offenders and we have to tax on my eyes are different offenders in some fashion and so we categorize them until school site goes purves and trolls howard kurtz are the cosby deal riley's the reading trump would draw my also be a psycho and his death i troll and i guarantee you can be in multiple circles at once but

those tend to be people who have money are there front and center in in an organization or company or political party or religious organization that does have money and so there are the kind of defendants that we lawyers can get real results for clients from and there's plenty to parallel legal tracks there's criminal and civil so criminal is you know the united states versus more and shiller and it's all about punishing the defendant so you do something wrong and this is your punishment you're going to jail for them this much time where is sinful that case is driven not by prosecutors but by the plaintiff so a b carey goldberg vs warren schiller and i'm not as worried about your punishment as much as i am about making myself oh so basically for storing me to the condition i was before you did this bad action to me and so one of the ways that many the main way that we do that is

by taking your money and giving it to me it's a crude way of handling in justice but we haven't found a better one and so you know something that happens then came you know that the victim's life should be made a little bit easier is that we receive for money and the lawyers can can get that money and when there's a defendant that hasn't that was sent our clients who've an injured take that from them it doesn't mean they're gold diggers it's it means it means are just seeking justice and its rightfully theirs to seek and that that is the so called that's a civil suit path that's the simple syrup and and ideally i would i would never do anything to cause you and now i'm only interested in the crime what is that like

joan bakewell have that's when you know you report something to your precinct or to a cop that because there's been a violation of penal code and that could be the state penal code or the federal penal code there are two sets of of laws and on and then there is an investigator that had appointed to investigate and if they agree that there's probable cause then they will rest and it gets shifted up to a prosecutor said to be in that isn't actually driving the bow it's the government that drives the boat the prosecutors are the attorneys for the government and the victims it's actually a glorified witness so they don't get to make decisions they don't usually get a lot out of it other than the satisfaction of having taken action which i'm not going to underestimate and also the punishment of of the accused of the matter is that a lot of most criminal cases like civil cases to settle there's a plea bargain that offer two

to the defendant and so he'll often plead to a lesser crime and faced last jailed and usually they the victim feels he shot and so sometimes it'll be very demoralizing to be so involved for so long in a criminal process and then become disappointed in any actual punishment that's sustained so there have been against harvey we've top we've heard about how the nypd had investigated him and then there was some sort of little meeting i'm between his lawyer and the prosecutors office and around that time they're also been a love story's planted about the accuser and suddenly that case just vanished into thin air this is inflection point i'm lauren shuler my guest is claire carey goldberg fully back right after a break

allah i learned schiller and this is

inflection point i'm talking with sexual harassment internet privacy lawyer carey goldberg to catch this is a podcast and catch up on all the other amazing women i talk with search for inflection point on the pop culture of your choice we're you're working on a case right now greider i tell us is that is that ok so my clients psychotic x created impersonating accounts on grinder that resulted in over twelve hundred men going to my client's home and his workplace and restaurant for sex and the present towns would say things like on all four with my looped and would imply that my client wanted unprotected sex and was into rape fantasies so you know his every day would be consumed by telling is when he's sixteen strangers that you know i'm actually not having sex with fewer i'm working my lunch shift and that was somebody else

impersonating me and my aunt asked and asked grinder and reportedly sick these accounts over fifty times retained we reported at multiple times and grinder the supreme court they said they don't have control over who uses their product they said that they could stop and the impersonal accounts which to me it's insane i mean they have contractual relationships with every single person that uses around i mean we all have to sign those click button things anytime we be signed up for now and grinder actually owns that patent for that geo locating technology that they use and so the concrete geo fencing to to figure out which accounts are sending people to my cat my clients address and you know we know the address where the offender was operating from a defender was using the same language they could have figured out the town's just by

doing basic searches etc etc so our theory alton only ones week we found out that they're claiming they can't control their product without the act like it and why thinking more like exploding barry yeah right and so we are using product liability laws to go after grinder saying you know that you know just like if you buy a car and the air bag goes off and then you get into a rack it's the same kind of negligence is yet our client faced with default really manufactured product and you were murdered been created here were testing it we're somewhat limited because of this law that went into effect in nineteen ninety six caught between occasions decency act which basically says that online service providers are not liable for the conduct of their users and that's a law that protects on

silicon valley basically really really hard to sue tech companies and it basically is why tech companies can pretty much just print their money they have no fear of being sued by the people that they're using their their product unlike any other product it's this weird exceptionalism and it went into effect when the internet was this brand new little baby and lawmakers were like oh the internet and there was there must be some potential here which i agree it's like you know it was really cool other lawmakers are saying that oh my goodness these companies like prodigy and compuserve they're getting sued by all their users for for defamation your one when users saying something you're defamatory against another user and now these big named plaintiffs are are suing the company and so we need to create a lot to protect these little tiny baby companies otherwise the internet is gonna sink and die i mean it's incredible and

it's why the internet has become what it has become and it's revolutionized our lives in so many ways but it's also how we attack and try other people's lives and it's never been more convenient to literally in the palm of our hands for us to be able to destroy another person's life and the reputation and i think you know i see it happen every single day with with my clients but this law does protect internet companies from from liability and so so it though we're figure delaying with grander for example or or your other clients he says are you trying to set a new precedent that would disrupt a law like that that is clearly no longer suited for today's environment my life all my mortal enemy is this law bans this i think that this kind of cases is a great case we've got a you know a few other ones that will also bring of if we need to

but yeah i mean the companies need to be held responsible for conduct that they know is happening on their their performance why revenge porn websites get to continue to insist it's why people who were being held you know young kids who were being sex trafficked and back pages where they can't sue back page and in its outdated i mean the internet your internet companies are some of our art country's biggest most profitable companies and so they don't deserve this kind of exceptionalism anymore so i mean in your case you you harnessed you know it with with this horrible situation with your x u turn it into something positive and powerful and you wonder what are some of the things that you talk with your clients about and that you would say to our listeners who have found themselves in these types of situations about how do they get their lives back when it's been taken over by something horrible and out of their control i think one thing that's really important for me to communicate to my

clients is that i'm not going get their life back for them and they're not gonna get their life back for themselves out we're going to take them to a new normal and it could be a better one no one wants they get to the other side of their crisis where they get a restraining order they get the proceeds from a loss to their know how there's an unknown become himself so they made all these series of good decisions that led them to this outcome and you know and and they're going to just feel more more resilient in an empowered and suddenly things that they may have been scared of this was true in my case words framing anymore i wasn't afraid of speaking in public anymore i wasn't afraid of starting a business in that feeling because i had experienced like a true sort of in your thoughts in your blood kind of fear where i was fearful for my life and says and after that things that ordinarily would have really freaked me out just stopped and i

talked to my clients about about that about the idea of post traumatic growth and you know in these situations where you're under incredible stress it's very normal to go to the places of comfort you know and whether that's can be alcohol or it can be drawn support can be sacks on their other options the only option isn't to sink into a deep depression it's okay to feel sorry for yourself and to have the commercial classes now and then but you know that misery that a person's feeling during their time of of of crisis it's it's temporary and and i really you know i try to help my clients be patient and know that like it's going to pass senior year obviously not recommending the drugs alcohol and sex or without clear and i have and i yeah i don't recommend that because especially when

you're in a moment of vulnerability if you really get out of hand because you know you just need to find comfort wherever you can and do a lot of people due to seek comfort from from escapist places you know another option that i do recommend in contrast to those other things is is that exercise actually elevate you can take your mind off of your misery and it can give you the sense that the natural hot and so terry howie stop this behavior in the first place i mean it feels like we have you know many degrading and pillaging since the beginning of time but how well i you know that as immediate needs to continue and you know we have we are certain to have a national conversation around consent and you know i bet that teenagers at home and that the you know top it becomes a frequently at their schools in the insect said things like that that you know i feel like the conversation is still with the girls and the women and what are your

thoughts in terms as powell we bring men into that conversation to just had a we had a we intercept would i mean i mean really you have to accept that mr bryant i think you need to be concerned and that starts at a very very young age and it's i agree with what you said that this isn't about teaching our daughters know not as animated picture not to get raped or you know not to be somewhere with a manager escalating into a potted plant and it needs to be expressed to the boys and but you know schools are the best place to do that unfortunately you know we've got several title mind cases against schools and it is very clear that schools and administrators themselves don't even understand the basics of of consent and non consent and don't you know so hot you know we need to get our educators educated you know did it all comes down to

money there needs to be a budget for this stuff yeah where's that come from red faced to get more women in political leaders and yeah i am what is the best advice that you've ever been given iran how to flip the power dynamic for women or actually for anyone who finds itself on the wrong side of a situation can i wish i wish i have an answer at the tip of my tongue with this advice you've ever gone on this i know about the best advice i've ever gotten one thing i say a lot to my clients is that you're not crazy the situation as and the other thing i say a lot to people who are not my clients and who don't understand my clients and he wants you want a link blame them are you know that's what i say in every single one of us is is a moment away from you know having her life

completely disrupted by somebody hell bent on our destruction and you know and the other thing is that it doesn't the attack that i see a mine it doesn't matter if you've got a sterling reputation and you've you've never you know even stepped on a spider because anybody has the power and the ability at their fingertips to report you in to claim that you're a pedophile to falsely report you as one to the police to go on social media and say that you've got these horrendous some stds to start saying there that you've cheated on your wife or your husband it's like anybody could be taken down and it doesn't necessarily need to be truthful people need to

have to really to better understand what and vigils are going through all went something cruel degrading has happened to the show i'm carrie thank you so much for talking with me today and singer in the system really nice oh man as kerry says we're are always a moment away from his thoughts or revenge porn or knows what's happening to us is it that would make a person feel like ok all over their lives maybe hopefully it seems like with the right now why we can't take control there's a few other things we can do whether or not we can harass you see i just said that we can even change the way i just say and that's been harassed that's a passive way of talking about it the first thing we can

do is change the language from passive to active harassment is that something that happens to women it's something that users actively consciously do you let me explain he raped death stands an unsolicited think that gary randy and his aspirations or whatever send a picture of her without her consent it's not her fault that he shared naked pictures of her out of revenge we need to make the abuser the subject of the abuse not the victim also cheap telling your story don't like i don't want this moment to sink down the dream until the next big celebrity is exposed as a sexual senator i have heard you have to tell your story a thousand times before it's

insane this culture of victimhood accuser and he said she said of guilt and doubting what women say and most importantly in the entertainment industry and politics in alaska men in power will get away with using win it that's what happens when women rise that it's what happens when women and men come together to lift one another that and have the courage to speak out and now more than ever this is an inflection point i'm lauren shuler or indian or

that their inflection point for today no one in history rising up stories let's note that is actually revealed darfur while you're there and for it to become a huge influx of slaves inflection point is that you and partnership of kalw ninety one point seven have anything from the bar you can find our podcast on itunes and media publication pr one thing us a five star review of that first story editor and content manager as lara weaver for engineer and producer is eric wayne and i'm your host orange is a genius